Just thought I ask you guys about the recording quality of the Panasonic EH55S and the Pioneer 640. I understand the the Panny can record up to 500 lines of horizontal resolution in a new and improved LP mode because of a 12 bit feature it has. The Pioneer however is only 10.

I like to record alot of sporting events like basketball games and boxing events. The situation I have here is that a great deal of the time these events last anywhere between 2 and 2.5 hours and sometimes 3 hours on payperview events. I sometimes flex record up to 2 hours and about 15 minutes with no loss in picture quality, but when I go over that to about the 2.5 hour to three hour mark I can see a loss in quality. So many times I end up splitting the games in half and dub them on two seperate discs. I no longer want to do that.

I know both of these units are dual layer compatible which will alow me to record the shows that are 3 hours long or longer in sp mode with no distortion in picture quality. But how do these units stack up to each other when I want to flex record up to a little over 2 hours to just shy of under 3, with using standard non DL discs.

I have already ordered a Pioneer 640 but if the Panasonic is a better choice I will go ahead and try to find one on ebay and either sell the 640 or keep it for another tv.

One other question, when you record onto DL discs using either of these two units is there any kind of delay or any loss of data when its statrs dubbing to the second layer?

I appreciate your help.

I can't speak for the Panasonic 55,but I have owned a Panasonic HRS and more recently a Panasonic E95h.The 95 recently lost it's ability to read any new disc.So I picked up a Pioneer 640.
I had recorded many discs,mostly about 150 minutes per disc.I always felt that was still good quality on the Panny.So far with the Pioneer I have done a few test discs at that speed,and the jury is still out.
On the 640 there are several more options than the Panny...I have tried a few,and as I have said,not fully sastified yet.
To my eyes,it has still not measured up to the Panny...but I'll keep trying for a bit.
Perhaps its just one of the personal preference,as the 640's picture seems 'softer' and the Panny's sharper.
But,I will keep playing...and get back to you.

I have never noticed a delay in recording to the second layer (or when playing it back) on my Pioneer 640 with DL discs.

Here is a little info on how much time you can get on a Single Layered Disc, and Dual Layered Disc with the Pioneer 640. It doesn't have "Flex" mode, but it has many Manual settings "MN 01 to MN 32" and I will list for you the Manual Modes and what you get between 2 and 3 hours per setting.

First I would like to tell you that MN 32 is the best quality with least time, and MN 01 is the worst quality with the most time. MN 32 to MN 09 give a resolution of 720x480, MN 08 and MN 07 give 352x480, and MN 06 to MN 01 give 352x240.

Now for my list of times between 2 and 3 hours with an SL and DL disc.

MN 21 = SL, 2h 00m, DL, 3h 43m
MN 20 = SL, 2h 10m, DL, 4h 02m
MN 19 = SL, 2h 20m, DL, 4h 21m
MN 18 = SL, 2h 30m, DL, 4h 39m
MN 17 = SL, 2h 40m, DL, 4h 58m
MN 16 = SL, 2h 50m, DL, 5h 17m
MN 15 = SL, 3h 00m, DL, 5h 35m

Just to be straight about it, those above times were from the owners manual for the "SL" times, and by literally putting in a DVD+R DL in the unit and checking the time that way for the "DL" times, so you will probably get a few minutes more than what is listed for "SL".

Good luck finding the Pioneer 640!!

Thanks guys for your help. I just picked up a EH55s display model at ultimate electronics today, it was their only one left. Ill go ahead and play with it for some time and see how it compares to my old E95H.

Just want to ask you guys what DL disc brands and in what format do you recommend, +r DL or -rDL?

Thanks guys for your help. I just picked up a EH55s display model at ultimate electronics today, it was their only one left. Ill go ahead and play with it for some time and see how it compares to my old E95H.

Just want to ask you guys what DL disc brands and in what format do you recommend, +r DL or -rDL?
JUST WONDERING......
On older Panasonics, there was a method of finding out how many hours a hard drive and/or laser was used. Is there a way of getting this info. on the newer models? I'm noticing that (due to lack of availability) people are buying demo units. Fine, if they were not used and just put out on display....but....this could be a disaster if they were used in the store! Some of these units (I've seen it with an EH55 in CC) are left in a demo mode for literally hundreds of hours (maybe thousands)!! I wouldn't pay $5.00 for one of these units as it will self destruct at any given time!

Has anyone learned or found away to check the amount of use on a Panasonic or a Pioneer dvd recorder?

This would be a very valuable tool for questionable demo or e-bay purchases!

Let us know your opinions on PQ between the Pan EH55 and the Pio640.
At SP. At LP. At 3 hr.

Please advise which IRE setting was used in comparisons (ie, 0 IRE and 7.5 IRE).

I have already ordered a Pioneer 640 but if the Panasonic is a better choice I will go ahead and try to find one on ebay and either sell the 640 or keep it for another tv.

Thanks guys for your help. I just picked up a EH55s display model at ultimate electronics today, it was their only one left. Ill go ahead and play with it for some time and see how it compares to my old E95H.

I upgraded to the Pioneer 640 from the Panasonic E80H and I also found the picture to be softer (less sharp) in the automatic recording mode options. I believe I have fixed that problem by using a defined setting where I have the bar one step from still (to the right) on the 3-d option.

Jason

Good luck finding the Pioneer 640!!

It's funny that I should stumble across this post. I was looking at a site for the latest prices on the 640 and there was nothing listed. What has happened to it? Is Pioneer about to come out with another model?

It's funny that I should stumble across this post. I was looking at a site for the latest prices on the 640 and there was nothing listed. What has happened to it? Is Pioneer about to come out with another model?This thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=814139) will tell you about it. Basically, Pioneer was forced to discontinue the 640 because it has an analog tuner, and there are many reports in various other threads that they are not going to be producing any more DVRs with HDDs.

Theron

This thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=814139) will tell you about it. Basically, Pioneer was forced to discontinue the 640 because it has an analog tuner, and there are many reports in various other threads that they are not going to be producing any more DVRs with HDDs.

Theron

Thanks for the link. That analog tuner was one reason I held off on buying one. If it wasn't for the FCC's mandated change in Feb 2007 to a digital signal I probably would have bought one.

Thanks for the link. That analog tuner was one reason I held off on buying one. If it wasn't for the FCC's mandated change in Feb 2007 to a digital signal I probably would have bought one.

FWIW - If you are using a sat or cable box or use analog cable as your source of video content then the fact that the unit has an analog tuner has no impact on you because in the former case you would simply be using the line inputs and not the tuner and in the latter case you would be using the cable co. coax to the antenna input and the unit's built-in tuner. The ATSC tuner mandate only really has an impact if you are recording OTA signals using an antenna, and then again will only really impact when the mandatory switch of OTA stations to digital by 2009.

FWIW - If you are using a sat or cable box or use analog cable as your source of video content then the fact that the unit has an analog tuner has no impact on you because in the former case you would simply be using the line inputs and not the tuner and in the latter case you would be using the cable co. coax to the antenna input and the unit's built-in tuner. The ATSC tuner mandate only really has an impact if you are recording OTA signals using an antenna, and then again will only really impact when the mandatory switch of OTA stations to digital by 2009.

OK, I hate to be dense, but the change to digital in Feb 09 is really no big deal if I'm getting my TV signal from a cable company?

That's right. Especially if you are using a digital set top box. Then you wouldn't be using the DVD recorder's tuner at all.

That's right. Especially if you are using a digital set top box. Then you wouldn't be using the DVD recorder's tuner at all.

I'm afraid we're not using a set top box. We simply plug the cable into the vcr.

I'm afraid we're not using a set top box. We simply plug the cable into the vcr.


No problem there either, at least for the forseeable future. There is no requirement for Cable Cos. to drop their basic analog service. The federal mandate only applies to OTA broadcasters. BTW - That is my setup now (i.e., analog cable plugged directly into my DVD recorder). If cable co. does eventually drop analog service, then I will simply either go to a digital set top box, go satellite (again with a box) or get an external ATSC tuner. In each case I can simply plug into the line inputs of my Panny EH75V. I plan to keep that recorder going for as long as it will last. The fact that it has an analog tuner does not bother me in the least.

No problem there either, at least for the forseeable future. There is no requirement for Cable Cos. to drop their basic analog service. The federal mandate only applies to OTA broadcasters. BTW - That is my setup now (i.e., analog cable plugged directly into my DVD recorder). If cable co. does eventually drop analog service, then I will simply either go to a digital set top box, go satellite (again with a box) or get an external ATSC tuner. In each case I can simply plug into the line inputs of my Panny EH75V. I plan to keep that recorder going for as long as it will last. The fact that it has an analog tuner does not bother me in the least.

Thanks for clearing that up. If I had understood this a few months ago I might have bought one. One last question about the reply to my initial post. TPKeller2 posted that Pioneer wouldn't be producing anymore DVRs with HDD. What's the reasoning behind that? A recorder with a hard drive would seem to be a great idea for recording and then editing programs, so why stop?

There are 2 theories for this:

(1) The HDD DVD recorder market in the US is not large enough to support R&D for these units, supposedly because of the predominance of DVRs rented from cable/satellite companies. Also consumer confusion about how to use these recorders results in large numbers of returns.

(2) The fear of litigation from TIVO

Only the recorder companies know for sure.

You can probably add "price" in there too, at least as far as the big-name brands go.

Those cheaper brands always manage to disappear real quick from my local Walmart's shelves, as soon as they're restocked.

Confusion about how to use them. Yeah, I'd say so from a thread I remember reading last year. I remember looking at the owners manual for the 640 on line, it is 135 pages long, i fealt a little intimidated. As for the price, I admit I kept thinking let's see if it drops some more.

Back to the question at hand....the Panny or the Pioneer?
I now believe,at least to my eyes...that the Panny is the clear cut winner of the two in terms of playback and recording quality.I made several discs using the 640,and they were good.The other day because Best Buy had the Panasonic dmr-15 on sale for a mere 99 bucks,I picked one up.I made a few discs,played some older ones...and for me the difference was more than just slight.The Panny's picture is just much sharper and precise.
As I said earlier,the 640's tends to be a little softer...and I prefer the sharpness of the Panny.
For me,what this means is this little 99 dollar unit is going to replace my 640,as I have a lot of tapes to put on disc...and the 640 will be heading to eBay.And no,I don't need the hard drive...I have two other Panny's with drives.
Your mileage may vary...but I'm sticking with Panasonic.