I AM LOOKING TO PUT IN A 5.1 SETUP WITH...
B&W
803S
HTM3S
DS7S
ASW700

ONE DEALER TOLD ME I WOULD BE FINE WITH A PIONEER ELITE RECEIVER TO POWER THEM LIKE THE VSX-84TXSi.

ONE DEALER TOLD ME A DENON WOULD BE FINE TOO...

ANOTHER DEALER TOLD ME THAT WOULD NOT CUT IT...AND I'D NEED SEPARATES LIKE A ROTEL AMP AND PROCESSOR(LARGEST DEALER IN MY AREA)

COULD SOMEONE PLEASE GIVE ME SOME ADVICE AND OPINIONS ON WHAT TO DO....I AM NEW TO THE WHOLE SCENE...REALLY LIKE THIS B&W SETUP, BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE RIGHT ELECTRONICS GO WITH THEM...BUT IF I COULD USE 1 RECEIVER...I'D REALLY PREFER THAT!!!

PLEASE HELP....THANKS

You will need to go with separates. A receiver will not push thoughs speakers at reference levels. You could use a receiver and a separate amp for the front speakers. look at Classe, Macintosh, Krell and Sunfire to name a few.

You need some quality gear and those receivers are not that.

I am pretty qualified to answer this question. I own the 803S's, HTM1S, DS8's and SCM1 with a ASW825 sub. I used a Denon 5805 to power this set up for close to 2 years in a 22X35 dedicated theater room. B&W700guy is wrong when stating the receivers will not push the speakers to reference level, they will easily without distortion as well. The set up will sound nice especially for movies and pretty good for music.

In my opinion, in order to get the ultimate sound qualiy, a seperate amp is needed. About 3 months ago I purchased the McIntosh MC207 amp as well as the MX119 pre/pro. One thing about the speakers you purchased they love current and with the McIntosh amp I purchased the speakers opened up and sounded so much better. The sound stage became a whole lot bigger, imaging was spot on and the depth of the sound stage is more 3 dimensional if that makes sense.

So in conclusion, a receiver will power the B&W's fine, but to get the ultimate enjoyment out of them I would purchase at least a 200 watt per channel amp. I auditioned a ton of amps like Krell, Parasound, Rotel, B&K and finally McIntosh. When I heard the Mac in my system I purchased the demo unit right on the spot. The Mac amp has a ton of current and the out put is a lot greater than the 200 watts per channel advertised. It is a lot closer to 300 watts than 200.

I hope this helps.

Nice to hear from someone with direct experience.

ONE DEALER TOLD ME I WOULD BE FINE WITH A PIONEER ELITE RECEIVER TO POWER THEM LIKE THE VSX-84TXSi.

ONE DEALER TOLD ME A DENON WOULD BE FINE TOO...

ANOTHER DEALER TOLD ME THAT WOULD NOT CUT IT...AND I'D NEED SEPARATES LIKE A ROTEL AMP AND PROCESSOR(LARGEST DEALER IN MY AREA)



Were all these dealers B&W dealers?

VTGolfer's got the straight scoop. If you buy a *good* solid receiver, it will do almost, but not quite as well, as separates given that the B&Ws are easy enough to drive. Other speakers would cause many receivers to shut down at reference levels, but these shouldn't.

Of course, if I were spending that much on speakers, I'd probably get separates because it's a better long term investment and will likely perform better while you wait the financial payoff.

yes...all b&w dealers...


OK...WHAT RECEIVERS WOULD YOU RECOMMEND???

WHAT SEPARATES???

THANKS

OKAY, STOP YELLING!!!

Arcam, Rotel, NAD (wait for the new line though), maybe upper end Denon or Pioneer, but I'm partial to the first three.

Arcam, Rotel, NAD (wait for the new line though), maybe upper end Denon or Pioneer, but I'm partial to the first three.


Agreed (with the italics added) :)

If I were to do it again I would honesty audition a few more brands to make sure the B&W's were the sound I was/is looking for. There are things I love about the B&W's and there are issues as well but that is probably the case for 90% of the speakers out there.

Receivers that match up well are exactly what Alimentall mentioned but the Denon 5805 did match up very well. I probably would stay away from Yamaha because to me it sounded a little too bright.

If you are spending the money like you are for the B&W's I would definately spend on seperates. Some good ones to look into would be NAD Masters Series, Arcam, possibly Parasound, Halcro and definately McIntosh. The McIntosh just matches up soo well with the B&W's and the Macs were definately the best that I auditioned which includes all of the above except the NAD Masters Series. Krell did not match up very well in my room as well.

I have heard these speakers on lexicon/bryston separates and then on straight up Macintosh separates...The Macintosh absolutely blew away the Lexicon/Bryston setup. It was unbelievable. TBH, I didnt really care for the Lexicon setup. It just didnt sound as good as equipment with that sort of price tag should. The Macintosh, though...WOW. My next setup will be strictly Mac, I can tell you that much. Just my 2 cents.

Here's how it usually goes...

OK...WHAT RECEIVERS WOULD YOU RECOMMEND???

I wouldn't recommend a receiver at all, except possibly as a preamp. We should look at separates.

WHAT are SEPARATES??? They're too expensive. I'm not an audiophile with golden ears.

:rolleyes:

Sorry guys, had a Denon 4802. My 703 speakers at reference levels would sound squerly. My dealer and many other people who were with B&W suggested going to separates because of the speaker. Well I didn't listen, a little after 2 years I noticed that the Dynamic Range of the receiver was compressed, had the receiver tested and was told the amp portion was shot! I was also told that I was lucky that I didn't damage my speakers. Thats my experience. If you want to use a Receiver for a short period of time, thats fine. But I would at least get a 3 channel amp for the fronts. but then, if the receiver destroys your speakers I am sure that the guy on this thread will buy you a new pair;)

Sorry guys, had a Denon 4802. My 703 speakers at reference levels would sound squerly. My dealer and many other people who were with B&W suggested going to separates because of the speaker. Well I didn't listen, a little after 2 years I noticed that the Dynamic Range of the receiver was compressed, had the receiver tested and was told the amp portion was shot! I was also told that I was lucky that I didn't damage my speakers. Thats my experience. If you want to use a Receiver for a short period of time, thats fine. But I would at least get a 3 channel amp for the fronts. but then, if the receiver destroys your speakers I am sure that the guy on this thread will buy you a new pair;)

I can tell you if your 4802 amp section was shot you were listening well above reference level which is 75db's or so.

I have heard these speakers on lexicon/bryston separates and then on straight up Macintosh separates...The Macintosh absolutely blew away the Lexicon/Bryston setup. It was unbelievable. TBH, I didnt really care for the Lexicon setup. It just didnt sound as good as equipment with that sort of price tag should. The Macintosh, though...WOW. My next setup will be strictly Mac, I can tell you that much. Just my 2 cents.

I agree. Mac and B&W's were a match made in heaven. The go so well together and it took me a long time listening, auditioning to find this pair on my own. Once I listened to the Mac gear with the B&W gear I was sold on the spot. I use to only listen to music 15-20% of the time with movies making up the majority but since the Mac amp and preamp purchase my music listening is now 60% and growing. The McIntosh MX119's analogue pre/amp section is the same as the C45 which has won a few awards.

I wouldn't jump straight up and say that receivers are incapable of actually driving 803s, but it's just not ideal. 800 Series speakers have a pretty wicked impedance curve that can dip down to about 3 ohms, which a lot of integrated receivers can have trouble with.

I have a customer with a pair of 802Ds running them with a Denon AVR-4803. It doesn't sound bad... But to me, it somehow doesn't make sense driving a $12k pair of speakers with a $3k (at the time) receiver.

I would totally agree that B&W and Mac are indeed a match made in heaven. It's almost as if they were designed together, but they really were not. B&W Group wants you to buy Classé (a tad bit pricey for what you're getting, IMHO and I HATE how computerized their Delta series components are).

The great thing about the Mac gear with B&W's is that the 803's love a ton of current and the MC207 that I own has plenty to spare. Most of the engineers with McIntosh will tell you that there amps are way under rated when it comes to stated watts.

Another good thing about the Macs is the build quality as well as resale value. They are great at both which is unusual in todays high end audio.

I can tell you if your 4802 amp section was shot you were listening well above reference level which is 75db's or so.

80db

80Db is fairly loud if that is for movies. Even at reference levels peaks can be up to around the 105Db range!

I also have 803S and a HTM3S powered by a Rotel RSX-1057 and to be honest the setup sounds very good for movies/music, even at reference levels. It's good to know the synergy between B&W and Mac is great as I hope one day i can pair my setup with a MC205 + MX120.

"80Db is fairly loud if that is for movies. Even at reference levels peaks can be up to around the 105Db range!"

Just like a movie theater....


I would not listen to anybody on this website as an Empirical source for your final purchase of an amp including me (I went cheep and purchased a Sunfire amp). The real questions is what was the setup you original listened to that made you want to purchase 803's. For me on the low end was an Anthem Prepro and Sunfire amp, and on the high end was all Classe. If you look around, you can find most of the equipment listed by a dealer who also sells B&W.

joewood....Question.... What was the original setup that you listened to that made you want to buy the speaker?

For my $0.02 -

What size is your room? I started out with a NAD T763 powering JM Lab Chorus 707S fronts. This was in a new house in our great room which is 17 x 19 with a 17' ceiling. Did not get the job done. Switched to my old Adcom 555 power amp from our Maggie days - made all the difference in the world. We just changed to Paradigm Signature 8s for the fronts (liked them better than the B&Ws) - still with the Adcom - and in our room they really sing - :)

An AV receiver is okay as a processer and for surrounds - but do yourself a favor and get the most out of those 803s - use a power amp for the fronts - look on Audiogon or ebay.

Ken

80Db is fairly loud if that is for movies. Even at reference levels peaks can be up to around the 105Db range!

I also have 803S and a HTM3S powered by a Rotel RSX-1057 and to be honest the setup sounds very good for movies/music, even at reference levels. It's good to know the synergy between B&W and Mac is great as I hope one day i can pair my setup with a MC205 + MX120.

You will love the MC205 and MX120 with your B&W's especially if you love 2 channel listening as well. Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet Music.

McIntosh processors also have fully defeatable DSPs for 2-channel listening over analog connections just like a stereo preamp, which is a huge plus.

Most preamplifiers have that, actually.

I added a sunfire TGA 5400 amplifier to my system last month and the difference is certainly audible. I currently use B & W 703's + HTM7 & Mini Theatre for the surrounds. This amp made a huge difference. I really wanted to opt for the Mcintosh amplifier but twice the price of the sunfire was a little much. Luckily my dealer has both set up in their demo room so it was easy to a/b the pair. I could tell the difference between the two and the Mcintosh sounded better but not for twice the price.

i am in the process of buying 804s with an HTM3S center.

I ahve the Denon 4806ci receiver.

I am 100 % ignorant on amps. Can I use an amp with a receiver like this? Do I ahve to buy a pre-amp or cna the Denon serve that function? Can i get a relatively cheap amp to boost the three fronts or will that defeat the purpose?

One last question: Where does the amp hook up? Does it hook straight into the receiver or do you ahve to wire it to the speakers.

i am in the process of buying 804s with an HTM3S center.

I ahve the Denon 4806ci receiver.

I am 100 % ignorant on amps. Can I use an amp with a receiver like this? Do I ahve to buy a pre-amp or cna the Denon serve that function? Can i get a relatively cheap amp to boost the three fronts or will that defeat the purpose?

One last question: Where does the amp hook up? Does it hook straight into the receiver or do you ahve to wire it to the speakers.

You can use your 4806CI as a pre/pro. It is equipped with pre-outs for all channels, so would just run these into the amp(s). Several companies make 3-channel amps, BTW, and yes, they can make an appreciable difference with your setup.

The speakers that you'll be ampifying externally will hook into the power amp terminals; the power amp hooks up line-level to the receiver in the appropriate pre-out jacks.

Exellent choice :)

I have the 804, and my Arcam AVR300 struggles to provide enough power. I would stay away from anything rated at less than 200wpc. McIntosh to me sound the best match for B&W. I plan on adding a mac amp and using my AVR300 as a pre only. The very top of the range Yamaha/denon will work, but you would not get the best sound possible from these fantastic speakers.

i am in the process of buying 804s with an HTM3S center.

I ahve the Denon 4806ci receiver.

I am 100 % ignorant on amps. Can I use an amp with a receiver like this? Do I ahve to buy a pre-amp or cna the Denon serve that function? Can i get a relatively cheap amp to boost the three fronts or will that defeat the purpose?

One last question: Where does the amp hook up? Does it hook straight into the receiver or do you ahve to wire it to the speakers.

I know people who are happy with that exact setup. Although I personally feel by slightly underpowered AVR300 sounds far better than the denon unit. You would be much happier if you got a nice power amp and hook it by by the pre-outs on the denon.

I just hooked up my new B&W 803Ds, along with a Pioneer Elite 7 channel receiver (82XXX) as my pre-amp, and a Classe CAV-150 amp (6 channel x 150 watts) that I bi-amped for my front speakers including the 803Ds and an HTM3S center (using RCA connections - not balanced).

I have a bit of a problem that I was hoping someone would have a solution. I have a buzz coming from the amp to the three front speakers. My surround speakers (703s) are powered by the Pioneer Elite receiver and there is clean air in those speakers.

I checked my connections and even changed connectors (Blue Jean Cables), and the buzz is still there. I remember when I had a Krell amp, that I had to use shorting wires into the 1 and 3 plugs in the balanced connectors, but, the Classe has a switch to select either balanced or RCA? I figured this switch would defeat the balanced inputs?

Any ideas? I don't have shorting plugs for this amp, and was thinking of making some out of paper clips to see if it worked.

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/2329/capslockqm8.jpg

wow! what about Emotiva line of amps? anybody use them with B&Ws?

Exellent choice :)

I have the 804, and my Arcam AVR300 struggles to provide enough power. I would stay away from anything rated at less than 200wpc. McIntosh to me sound the best match for B&W. I plan on adding a mac amp and using my AVR300 as a pre only. The very top of the range Yamaha/denon will work, but you would not get the best sound possible from these fantastic speakers.
And I have a pair of 804S run with a Denon 4306 - LR bi-amped with the unused rear channel amps - and it's more than enough to drive them to > 98dB peaks @ 3m (loud!) with a volume of -15 in my room and there's a lot of headroom left.

OP: Think room size and max volume requirements together with speaker efficiency and sensitivity before you fall foul of the audiophool philosophy of more == better and do some research over on audioholics.com before you spend more on equipment that you don't need. Also, if this setup is for HT then consider the 804S instead and spend the money saved on more/better subs.

I just hooked up my new B&W 803Ds, along with a Pioneer Elite 7 channel receiver (82XXX) as my pre-amp, and a Classe CAV-150 amp (6 channel x 150 watts) that I bi-amped for my front speakers including the 803Ds and an HTM3S center (using RCA connections - not balanced).

I have a bit of a problem that I was hoping someone would have a solution. I have a buzz coming from the amp to the three front speakers. My surround speakers (703s) are powered by the Pioneer Elite receiver and there is clean air in those speakers.

I checked my connections and even changed connectors (Blue Jean Cables), and the buzz is still there. I remember when I had a Krell amp, that I had to use shorting wires into the 1 and 3 plugs in the balanced connectors, but, the Classe has a switch to select either balanced or RCA? I figured this switch would defeat the balanced inputs?

Any ideas? I don't have shorting plugs for this amp, and was thinking of making some out of paper clips to see if it worked.

Probably a ground loop. Try putting a 3 to 2 prong adaptor on the power plug and see if it eliminates it.

OP: Think room size and max volume requirements together with speaker efficiency and sensitivity before you fall foul of the audiophool philosophy of more == better and do some research over on audioholics.com before you spend more on equipment that you don't need. Also, if this setup is for HT then consider the 804S instead and spend the money saved on more/better subs.

Ditto. I drive much harder to drive speakers with much less, no problem. Quality is all one really needs.

wow! what about Emotiva line of amps? anybody use them with B&Ws?


I have heard some say that they pair better with warmer and more laid-back speakers.
I haven't heard any myself though.