Cheaper Component to S-Video Converter [Text View] - Page 3

Cyclone82

04-09-12, 05:58 AM

Well I have read through this whole thread which took me all day pretty much. I am one of the people looking for a quality component to s-video converter plus a HDMI to component converter. So far it seems no one makes this sort of device all in one unless you want to buy a cheap unit from amazon or something that costs up near $1000 or so.
From what I can gather the top recommended component converters are
Altona
Ambery
Audio Autority
And perhaps Apple TV or some device from svideo.com which I did not read much about
Now heres another one to add to the mix

Cypresss
http://www.cypress.com.tw/english/display.asp?id=400

From doing a lot of reading I have come to learn that a lot of the Altona, Ambery, Sima, AVT etc etc products all originate from Cypress Technology Taiwan. That’s what a lot of other people have said too. They are all made in the same factory but rebranded for different markets, often fitted in different colour cases and often with different remote controls but are all essentially the same. Prices can vary too when you get some re-branders saying their product is better than another which they claim to be a knock off so they think they can charge more. I have seen this to be the case with the AVT-8710 vs CTP-100 time base correctors. One vendor saying the light blue ones were knock offs and the black ‘AVT-8710’s were the real deal. Well that’s not true. They all originate from the same place. I do wonder why the $100 difference between the Ambery and Altona converters. Is that how Altona can offer a 3 year warrenty? They jack the price up and offer you a warrenty and then if something does go wrong they can afford to just send you a new one and this has been factored into the price? I really wonder. Like I said before, these devices all seem the same to me, and I know from working in the motorcycle industry that many aftermarket parts are made in the same factories in Taiwan and prices vary for the exact same part. The fancy American branded versions cost more than the exact same part branded for another market and I know for a fact they are the same and there may only be cosmetic differences or no differences at all.

Ok back to converters. So far I have narrowed my decision down to the Ambery/Altona/Cypress. Its will just come down to price and warrenty and if I can make a saving getting one from a certain place than another, keeping in mind that if I need to buy a AUS power adaptor that would be extra unless I find an Australian vendor.

Now I cant not quite remember, but what was the only drawback/negative of the Altona/Ambery/Cypress converter?
Was it only that it could not accept 480i/576i? Or was it something else?

Here is another I am considering.

Altona AT-HD-AVSC

http://www.atlona.com/ATLONA-PC-HD-DOWN-CONVERTER.html

Discontinued here, but i am sure i can track one down as an Altona or another re-brand. eg http://www.hdtvsupply.com/codoco.html
or here

http://www.hdtvsupply.com/aa-1361.html

and here

http://www.avtoolbox.com/avt3190.shtml

wish they had front photos so i could see them. That site seems to have 3 or 4 of those units at varing prices and all seem to be the same to me. So just because Alton discontinued them does not mean you cant get them elsewhere. They show up on the Cypress site too.

Apart from price, what do you guys think?

It accepts these inputs

480i & 480p @ 60Hz
576i & 576p @ 50Hz
720p @ 50 & 60Hz
1080i @48, 50 & 60Hz

So I guess that’s where it beats the other units as it accepts 480/576i

Only thing i am woried about is if you have a 16:9 anamorphic source, whats it going to make the s-video output as? From a quick read of the manual it says you can chose aspect ratios of full, pan & scan, and letter boxed. I dont think any of those ar 16:9 then. What about the Altona AT-HD-AVSC or Ambery equivalent. What does that do with aspect ratios? Greaser?
Also i note it does not support 1080p in. Only 1080i. I assume the HDfury can outout 1080 i though?

Not to sure about the PC functions and if I would use them though but it does offer these functions

• Switch on the back to select PC or HDTV input
• Down converts to NTSC or PAL, component output.
• Supports high resolution PC input up to UXGA (1600x1200@60Hz) and HDTV input up to 1080i@60Hz.
• Output video format is selectable between Composite/S-Video and Component (YCbCr).
• Supports high input refresh rate up to 140Hz (VGA)
• Additional HD-15 and 3RCA connectors for looping through PC and HDTV input signal.
• Adjustable image scaling; Pan, Position and Zoom.
• Advanced 2-D flicker filter ensures flicker-free picture.
• Aspect adjustment for wide-screen HDTV Source.
• Adjustable contrast, brightness, color, sharpness.
• Last state memory recall ( all settings will be saved if the converter is turned off or unplugged from the electricity )
• Useful function-over scan, freeze, test pattern, magnifier.
• Adjustment and control through RS-232 interface.
• Remote control, OSD operation display.

It is pricey but I am sure I can find it cheaper and I don’t want to buy little plasticky boxes. I guess I will need to read the manual a bit more but at this stage I am pretty keen on it, as long as i can find out what happens when its fed a 16:9 picture. Are there any component converters that will pass through 16:9 to s-video out???

Now the second part of my post. The HD fury has been mentioned a lot here. I have had this on my mind for a while but did not understand all the different versions and the whole HDCP thing.
If I am right the HDfury 2 and 3 are not restricted by HDCP and will ‘remove it’ but the HDfury 4 will not remove the HDCP if there is any? If that’s the case I should get the 2 or 3?

The HD fury3 manual says

Industry-Standard Compliance
- HDMI 1.3
- EIA/CEA-861D
- DVI 1.0
- HDCP 1.1

Does this mean it wont strip HDCP then? I just need to know it will be right for me before buying as I don’t want to discover it no longer works for HDCP. Have the updated the 3 and made it so it now wont pass HDCP? Anyone recently bought one from HDfury direct?

Thanks

TheFreeman

04-09-12, 08:54 AM

All HDfury, from 1 to 4 will get rid of the 4letters things.

HDfury1 is HDMI/DVI-D/DVI-D_4letters input and RGBHV output.

HDfury2 is HDMI/DVI-D/DVI-D_4letters input and RGBHV or component output.

HDfury3 is 2x HDMI/DVI-D/DVI-D_4letters input and RGBHV or component output.

HDfury4 is HDMI/DVI-D/DVI-D_4letters input and HDMI/DVI-D/RGBHV/component output.

The last one also can output both ANALOG AND DIGITAL simultaneously, means you can input HDMI and get DVI-D and component out at the same time, or HDMI and RGBHV, or any others combinaison.

greaser

04-09-12, 05:21 PM

Cyclone 82, I own an Atlona HD COMP-500,have had it for ~1 1/2 yrs.It works flawlessly.Excellent color and brightness,unlike those .25 cent converters that have been,and continue to be, recommended by some:eek:.It has an HD passthru,and a heavy gauge aluminum casing.I paid ~$212.00 incl.shipping(new in box).I was told by a Atlona CSR that these units were made for commercial use and that the unit will stretch a 4x3 pic.to fill the screen(stretch-o-vision)on a 16x9 tv set.There is a Real Easy fix for that though.For example,if i want to record a 4x3 movie from TCM, i first tune to Fox News HD for a 16x9 widescreen pic.,just for a second or two,then i tune to TCM,and the 4x3 AR will come thru correctly.No problem.16X9 aspect ratios show normally,as do other AR's such as 2:35.1,and 1.85.1.Sometimes(but not always) an AR of 1.66.1 will show very slightly stretched,but not annoyingly so.A by-product of the conversion process is the elimination of CP.
I also own a HDFury2,it too works flawlessly.The Fury provides the "handshake"necessary to be able to watch tv on a non-HDMI,non-HDCP compliant HD tv.

mickinct

04-09-12, 05:31 PM

the Atlona HD COMP-500 is the same as the
Audio Authority 1360 Component to S-Video Converter which is the one I have,bought for $80.00 2 yrs ago. works perfect.

jjeff

04-09-12, 06:10 PM

^^^ you got yours for a steal, they're $314 and up now:eek:

greaser

04-09-12, 06:24 PM

^^^ you got yours for a steal, they're $314 and up now:eek:

You bet jjeff!!,for some reason these converters have been slowly but steadily rising in price.Don't know why:confused:I'm glad i bought mine when i did.

kjbawc

04-09-12, 09:40 PM

the Atlona HD COMP-500 is the same as the
Audio Authority 1360 Component to S-Video Converter which is the one I have,bought for $80.00 2 yrs ago. works perfect.

I own both of these, and have had the same problem with both. Sometimes I get a sort of horizontal shear line, with the picture below the line being a frame or two later than the picture above the line. When there is movement in the picture, vertical lines, like door edges, will be offset. This only happens for a few seconds, to a minute, once, maybe twice, or not at all, during a feature length film. I have seen it many times. It is not in the original signal. If I replay the original signal from the DVR again, to the DVDR, through the converter, the effect does not recur in the same place.

Also, both converters make very dark scenes a bit too dark. Otherwise, color is good, picture sharp.

Addendum: the dark scenes too dark only occurs with a SD channel, not with the HD channels.

Cyclone82

04-10-12, 03:23 AM

I dont quite understand the HDfury 'letters thing' I was under the impression the new HDfury 4 which is 3d capable was the one that would not pass encrypted stuff anymore so i was going to get the number 3. Dont think i need the 3D capability. I double checked with HD fury and the nice guy there said 3 will strip copy protection so i think i will get that one. Just wish they were in a stand along box instead we have to have this dangling spider like thing with cords hanging out of it. Oh well its the function that matters i guess.

Yes Greaser i read all your praise for the Atlona device through out the thread. Kjbawc, i wonder if your problem can be fixed using a TBC after the converter?

Very keen on getting this http://www.avtoolbox.com/avt3190.shtml or its equivalent in another brand and the Ambery/Atlona HD COMP-500 is hight on my list.

No one else has found any other decent ones yet? Would be good to find some good ones that do not originate from the same factory in Taiwan, bit of variation to choose from. I guess there is not a high demand for down converters. I am not urgently needing one but feel its something i should get. Who knows what will happen a few years down the track. Things may not be so bad for me in Australia like you USA guys as we have digital tuners in our recorders. But something ma change. Blank DVD's should be available for many years to come i hope so as long as i have a way to feed in signals via composite/s-vid i will be able to record something.

So at this point i sit and wait till i have enough $ saved for the HDfury and will keep looking for good component to s-vid converters.

TheFreeman

04-10-12, 08:08 AM

killomarker

04-11-12, 07:33 AM

http://www.webcam-steamate.com/cookies/43/b/happy.gif

Cheap Way to convert S-video to component?

Greetings,

I'm running my DVD and HD signal through my reciever to my component input on my TOSH HDTV.

I'd like to run my DTivo through the receiver as well, but my receiver doesn't upconvert the signal, so it would come through a different cable. I'd really like to figure out an affordable way to upconvert it before it hits the receiver, so I only have to use one input on the TV.

Unfortunately, I didn't plan well enough to BUY a reciever that does the upconversion for my. I've got the Onkyo HT-R530.

Thanks for any help,

David
__________________
Wish I was more clever. I would put something funny here.

Kelson

04-11-12, 09:08 AM

I'm running my DVD and HD signal through my reciever to my component input on my TOSH HDTV.

I'd like to run my DTivo through the receiver as well, but my receiver doesn't upconvert the signal, so it would come through a different cable. I'd really like to figure out an affordable way to upconvert it before it hits the receiver, so I only have to use one input on the TV.There is really no need to upconvert before the receiver. The HDTV will upconvert any signal it receives to match the native resolution of its screen. The upconverters (scalers) on quality HDTVs are generally much better than what you find in run-of-the-mill consumer components -- upconversion in these components is more a marketing tool than a feature of real utility -- and that includes mid-range AV receivers. Unless you have a high-end component (i.e. Oppo player) or a real video processor, let the HDTV do the upconversion.

One other point. Most components only upconvert out their HDMI outputs and not their component outputs. The ones I've seen that do upconvert out of component will not do so for protected source.

Church AV Guy

04-11-12, 12:20 PM

I agree. Your HDTV probably has an internal upconverter that is far superior to any budget stand-alone device you could buy. I say budget because in big bold letters you asked: "Cheap Way to convert S-video to component?" Those inexpensive little boxes usually have pretty poor interpolation circuitry, so lines look jaggy and circles have square bits on them. I would definitely just let the television handle it.

Budget_HT

04-11-12, 05:39 PM

Cyclone82

04-14-12, 11:50 PM

Depending on your country, a reseller can get his HDfury device shipped with 4letters compliant firmware, however you can update this firmware. Both HDfury3 and HDfury4 have USB upgradable firmware. so if you are buying from US/UK/CA reseler, then this particular reseller in those countries might ship the device with compliant firmware and you will need to flash another firmware in order to ensure interoperability with your preHDMI display.

It's nothing else than a 5 sec operation.

I will be buying it direct from HDfury and not a re-seller

Well the guy at HDa fury is telling me the number 4 version does strip HDCP. Thats confusing. Not sure i need the 4 though but now i need to decide between the 3 or 4?????

There is tonnes of these things (component cconverters) out there
http://www.hallresearch.com/page/Products/VHD-180

http://www.hallresearch.com/img/products/VHD-180_huge.jpg

Cyclone82

04-18-12, 10:15 AM

Update on HDFury 4. I contacted them direct and asked if the 4 will shut down the component output if HDCP is detected as i said that this is what i had been reading a lot on forums.

This was their reply

the hdfury 4 will do what you want in all modes dvi-d output vga and component video. It will not output a hdmi signal without encryption just dvi-d. Dvi-d is the same as hdmi except it doesnt carry audio.

After that i made sure it was clear that i wanted to convert HDMI to component and pass/remove HDCP and he said it will do what i want it to do. So it seems all this stuff about the 4 not being able to output to component if HDCP is detecected is not true. Thats what was telling me.

Kelson

04-18-12, 10:57 AM

After that i made sure it was clear that i wanted to convert HDMI to component and pass/remove HDCP and he said it will do what i want it to do. So it seems all this stuff about the 4 not being able to output to component if HDCP is detecected is not true. Thats what was telling me.The rules may be different in Australia. The web info on the Fury 4 is that it is HDCP compliant for the US market otherwise it would have been banned. In order for an HDMI device to be sold in the US it has to be licensed and the HDMI license requires HDCP compliance. If the input is HDCP protected HD, the Fury 4 is not supposed to output HD over component. The previous Fury 3 did and was finally pulled from the market.

greaser

04-18-12, 02:32 PM

From the 3D HDFury manual.Disclaimer:"This product does not process HDCP input.When receiving content that has HDCP encryption there will be no video output.In some countries a 3rd.party and/or a custom firmware can be used".In the "Main Features"section it says that the unit is software/firmware upgradeable thru usb.
Afew mos.ago there were questions concerning this very point on the Fury website(does it strip/nullify/process/decipher HDCP?).The answer was basically that it 'will/won't'. There is a downloadable program(costs $30.00)called "Powerstrip" that can be used to 'upgrade' the firmware so that the HDCP will be processed,and if you go to their website you can find multiple U.S. users who own this great little device.They also said that to be in compliance with the laws of the various countries they ship to,they must ship the device in a state that will not process HDCP.It's the end users responsibility to "upgrade"the unit.
So,it WILL work,you just have to tweak it a bit.:D

Kelson

04-18-12, 05:24 PM

So,it WILL work,you just have to tweak it a bit.:D
Good to know.

Cyclone82

04-19-12, 02:07 AM

The rules may be different in Australia.

I contacted HD Fury direct on their website. I think they are in China or Taiwan?

So,it WILL work,you just have to tweak it a bit

Yeah i like that. But even if it will only work after some 'mods' I am not sure why he did not say that to me. I can only assume that if i did get one he would ship it with the restrictions removed already and thats why he said it would work right away as he knew i was enquiring from AUS. So really i think if the 4 is made HDCP compliant they are really just doing it to satisfy the 'hollywood police' thats all. I think they want them off their back but really they want to allow the buyer freedom to use it as they wish so thats why they will hand out the different firmware.

I think its a bit ridiculous though. Are your border patrol/customs really going to spend time inspecting and 'testing out' every HD fury that comes into the country?

Anyway, i just bought a TBC1000 today (surprisingly a lot cheaper than if i got it from US too) so need to wait a few weeks till i can get the fury and one of these component converters :)

Cyclone82

04-19-12, 05:37 AM

greaser

04-19-12, 01:10 PM

Heres another one

http://www.hdwise.com/product.php?productid=906

First found it on an Australian site so then went to find a place in USA for you guys :)

Google 'shinybow SB-3681' for more

actually this one is a little different to this one with SCART

https://www.audiovisualdevices.com.au/images/products/sb3681.png

So,Shinybow FINALLY came out with their Component>s-video converter??
I waited i think nearly a full year for them to come out with it,then just about the time they said it would be available,they cancelled it and i never saw it listed on their website again.I even registered with them so i would be emailed a notice telling me when they were about to start selling them,never heard a word back.Dang!!!!:mad:It was originally supposed to be available 6/30/10,then that date was set back to 11/30/10 then....nothing.

jjeff

04-19-12, 03:44 PM

$135 plus free shipping in the US, seems to be a good deal if the black level is correct. Note the US version lacks the SCART connector but adds RCA L&R audio outputs. Personally I'd just run the audio direct from my source to DVDR(and avoid the extra connections) but to each his own.
3 year warranty is nice, I wonder how easy(and if their would be a change for shipping) if the item was returned(for example if the black level is raised). Might be worth a shot, especially if the picture quality is better than my Sima CT-2.

greaser

04-19-12, 03:50 PM

Go ahead,buy one jjeff:) and tell us all about it ,maybe it's a new Viable option for people looking to buy a converter.IF it's a good one.

Hmm,says it has "automatic control down scaling and UP scaling"??? So it has a scaler built in?? I know they all down scale,but i never heard of one that UP scales. wonder how well that'll work.Hmmm.Wonder if the scaler can be turned off if it makes the pic.worse??Too bad there's no HD passthru. The warranty is "right on".:cool:

Kelson

04-19-12, 05:11 PM

Note the US version lacks the SCART connector but adds RCA L&R audio outputs. Personally I'd just run the audio direct from my source to DVDR(and avoid the extra connections) but to each his own.That may not be a good idea. It all depends on how big the video processing lag is. Audio inputs/outputs are there to delay the audio to match the video lag and keep everything in synch.

Kelson

04-19-12, 05:16 PM

Hmm,says it has "automatic control down scaling and UP scaling"??? So it has a scaler built in?? I know they all down scale,but i never heard of one that UP scales.There won't be any upscaling if all it has is composite and S-Video outputs, Those are limited to 480i.

greaser

04-19-12, 05:40 PM

Audio inputs/outputs are there to delay the audio to match the video lag and keep everything in synch.

Ever since i started using a converter,the audio cables run directly from the sat.receiver to the DVDR,while the video is routed from the receiver thru the converter to the DVDR,and i've never had an A/V synch problem.But maybe that's due to the length of my A/V cables.The audio cable(R+W)is 6ft. long,and i use two 3ft. Component video cables,which of course equals 6ft.Since the cables are all the same length,there shouldn't be any A/V synch problem.

greaser

04-19-12, 05:42 PM

There won't be any upscaling if all it has is composite and S-Video outputs, Those are limited to 480i.

Yes,i'm more than a bit confused about the "upscaling"part of the statement.:confused:Could the "upscaling" be refering to the 'scart' connector?? I never heard of 'scart' until recently.

Cyclone82

04-19-12, 05:52 PM

I looked at a lot of the Shinybow stuff last night. I get the impression they are along the same lines as Cypress and the stuff is made in Taiwan and is not just re-brands or bottom dollar cheap chinese stuff flooding ebay or amazon. Some of their stuff is quite expensive like the Cypress stuff. These days i think thats the best we can get, unless you want to pay $2000 for something like this from perhaps a american maker or Japanese? Even then i reckon it would be made offshore. Theres not much choice for electicalgadgets and convertors these days. There is a Shinybow USA site and also a big Euro division too. I dont know how good their stuff is, but like usual you will probably read some negatives and positves (like all brands) but there gets a point where if the feedback is not 90% or overwhelmingly negative, you just gotta give it a try.

I would try looking on the USA or EU site for a fact sheet on that converter. I got a small sheet from an Australian seller but there was little to know info on it really.

I too was worried about audio delay with these sorts of device but most people say either leave the audio cables off (usually they are pass through for easy connection only anyway) but if you do leave them connected there may only be a very small millisecond time delay not noticeable to humans.

greaser

04-19-12, 06:04 PM

I looked at a lot of the Shinybow stuff last night. I get the impression they are along the same lines as Cypress and the stuff is made in Taiwan and is not just re-brands or bottom dollar cheap chinese stuff. Some of their stuff is quite expensive like the Cypress stuff. There is a Shinybow USA site and also a big Euro division too.

I would try looking on the USA or EU site for a fact sheet on that converter. I got a small sheet from an Australian seller but there was little to know info on it really.

I was on the Shinybow usa website today,entered the model# and got a 'no information found' or something to that effect,message. And yes,most of their equipment is quite expensive.

jjeff

04-19-12, 09:50 PM

That may not be a good idea. It all depends on how big the video processing lag is. Audio inputs/outputs are there to delay the audio to match the video lag and keep everything in synch.

I hadn't thought of that, in that case I agree it would be best to try first with a discerning ear, if you here no delay your probably good to go.
I also agree from looking at the Shinybow website that they don't look like a Lenkeng type of company. Not that their is anything with a company like Lenkeng trying to save people money but you just need to know what your in for and if you want top quality then you should probably look elsewhere(and probably spend a considerable amount more). What I really don't like is when unscrupulous companies take a cheap product like a Lenkeng, slap their name on it and charge 2 or even 3 times what a reputable company like Monoprice changes.
Greaser, I just may give the Shinybow converter a test but I'd have to be assured the company had a good return policy because I am fussy and if it didn't have noticeably better picture quality than my Sima then it would be going back. I wouldn't be using the device for WS preservation since my DVD player already outputs WS over S-video, I'd only be using it for CP removal and even then the majority of my rips are now done on my PC but when I'd need to compress the DVD to less than ~90% of the original, I really prefer a realtime copy with one of my Panasonics. This is assuming it's not a concert/music or special effects(5.1) laden movie in which case I'd probably bite the bullet and use a $1 Verbatim DL DVD on my PC.

Cyclone82

04-19-12, 10:53 PM

Try look for info here

http://www.shinybow.eu/eshop/index.php?strana=search

The scart version is around $160 in Aus.

Mike99

04-20-12, 12:52 AM

I hadn't thought of that, in that case I agree it would be best to try first with a discerning ear, if you here no delay your probably good to go.

Have someone who can read lips watch the video & see if the audio is in sync with the video. My wife can read lips quite a bit and when the audio is off she really notices it. When we got a big screen HDTV she said the audio was off a lot more. This was with NTSC, HD, DVD, etc. It just depended on each individual program. After experimenting it was concluded that the bigger screen displays bigger lips, which then makes any lip movement easier to see.

So I was forced to buy a new A/V receiver with an adjustable audio delay. Usually it’s set at 0 or 40ms delay, but occasionally it has to be at the max 100ms which sometimes is not enough. I guess it’s time for a new receiver!

Cyclone82

04-20-12, 02:56 AM

I just heard on the radio today about how the government is looking at toughening up laws regarding copyright laws here to do with downloading and uploading movies and TV shows ripping discs etc and that they are considering following other countries like USA and clamping down on this. I pricked up my ears when i heard that as it was a bit to do with what has been discussed here. I supose they will want to try and stop things like the HD fury here too then.

jjeff

05-03-12, 10:15 AM

I'm really thinking of getting one of these (http://www.hdwise.com/product.php?productid=2048&cat=300&page=1) unless someone knows they are basically a Lenkeng clone. As some of you may know I have a similar Lenkeng that while very reasonable(under $50 I believe) I'm not really impressed with it's PQ:(
I'd like it if this converter had S-video but even composite can look better than my Lenkeng's S-video which IMO is the same PQ as it's S-video output. Other than this one I'd have to spend >$300 to get a HDMI to S-video converter and thats kind of out of my budget. The whole reason I now need such a device is because I've started shooting home movies with my new Nikon 9100 point and shoot camera which records nicely in 1080p but when using it's composite video output to my DVDR it letterboxes everything:mad: Damn Nikon! When using it's HDMI output the picture is full screen, hence the need for such a converter. I tried playing the SD card in my computer but had no luck:( Using Widows Media Player or VLC I got sound but only paused video. Even if I was able to play the HD I'd have to get a BD burner and only play the DVDs in my BD player to retain HD, I think I'd be OK with SD if only better picture quality than I get from my Lenkeng.
Does anyone think it's worth a try to get this converter? Sounds like it would cost at least $12.50 + return shipping if I didn't care for it. I called the US distributor and asked about black level and if this device was US or European standard, they didn't really know but the guy said when he's played with it at trade shows he didn't notice the black level being raised....

Kelson

05-03-12, 12:08 PM

I'm really thinking of getting one of these (http://www.hdwise.com/product.php?productid=2048&cat=300&page=1) unless someone knows they are basically a Lenkeng clone. . . .
I wonder what they really mean by: This device is non-compliant to HDCPI also wonder since the connection picture they show has the box being fed by a game console (looks like an X-box) which would not have HDCP switched on.

jjeff, you really need to be using a PC for your camera. I'm sure it came with a USB cable to transfer pictures and video files. The file format will probably be H.264 and the SD card will be formatted as AVCHD -- which is why you can't play it in VLC or WMP. You know how much I like Video ReDo, but in this case I would urge you to take a look at Corel Video Studio Pro X4 or X5 to edit and author camcorder footage to a disk. You can download a 30 day trial -- if X4 works for you, you can buy it for $30 from Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004PIPG2A/ref=asc_df_B004PIPG2A2000945?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=pg-1175-01-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395097&creativeASIN=B004PIPG2A). It will down convert HD to 480i for DVD-Video but I would be surprised if the camera didn't allow you to specify 480 resolution in it's settings menu. If it were strictly a camcorder it would have a firewire port for DV transfer and you could use one of your Panasonic recorders with DV input.

jjeff

05-03-12, 03:46 PM

I wonder what they really mean by: I also wonder since the connection picture they show has the box being fed by a game console (looks like an X-box) which would not have HDCP switched on.
I think they mean it will not remove CP if HDCP(which I'd take as BD only) and if I wanted it would work for CP'd DVDs.

jjeff, you really need to be using a PC for your camera. I'm sure it came with a USB cable to transfer pictures and video files. The file format will probably be H.264 and the SD card will be formatted as AVCHD -- which is why you can't play it in VLC or WMP. You know how much I like Video ReDo, but in this case I would urge you to take a look at Corel Video Studio Pro X4 or X5 to edit and author camcorder footage to a disk. You can download a 30 day trial -- if X4 works for you, you can buy it for $30 from Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004PIPG2A/ref=asc_df_B004PIPG2A2000945?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=pg-1175-01-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395097&creativeASIN=B004PIPG2A). It will down convert HD to 480i for DVD-Video but I would be surprised if the camera didn't allow you to specify 480 resolution in it's settings menu. If it were strictly a camcorder it would have a firewire port for DV transfer and you could use one of your Panasonic recorders with DV input.
No DV output, it's just a camera that also records up to 29 minutes of HD video. I suppose I should really go the PC route, I really do like the 1080p HD going directly from the camera to my TVs HDMI input it's just then to burn HD I'd have to get a BD burner(I suppose a external USB would work) but then there is the compatibility issue with people that don't have a BD player(my mother and father for two) but truthfully I've never given them a burnt DVD of family movies, if they watch them it's on my TV.....I know, I know, it's getting to the point where I really need to start using my PC more and stop relying on my DVDRs, currently the only thing I burn with my PC is what will still rip with Shrink, which is surprisingly quite a few DVDs but of course no BDs which I've been purchasing in limited quantities. Just purchased Blazing Saddles on BD the other day(not one of the wifes favorites) and she said, don't we already have BS? to which I replied.....but not on BD:rolleyes: which really gives the movie another dimension even though it's 2.35:1 the detail really pops on BD(it was only $6 at Sams:)).

Kelson

05-03-12, 05:26 PM

No DV output, it's just a camera that also records up to 29 minutes of HD video.Right, no DV output, but doesn't it have USB?

You don't need a BD burner unless you are going to burn BD-R. If these are the usual short home video camcorder recordings you just format as AVCHD and burn to DVD-R/DL. Remember, AVCHD was made for this. You should be able to fit about 1 hr of HD camcorder footage on a DVD-R. True you need a BD player for playback to your TV, but you can still play them on your PC using the DVD burner.

Cyclone82

05-04-12, 01:14 AM

jjeff, i know those cheap devices are tempting but i reckon you would be better off with this

http://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-Component-Converter-Support-Surround/dp/B004F9XVBC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1336111640&sr=8-1

and a separate component to comp/s-vid converter around the same price or bit more than a all in one device which no doubt are not that good

Comparison of View HD and HDfury1 here. ViewHD looks ok to me. I want to get one.
http://www.hdfury.com/is-our-picture-quality-making-legal-problems/

You can tell the guys at HDfury are pretty pissed off that they are not allowed to sell it in USA when other manufactures are allowed to. They seem singled out/targeted.

jjeff

05-04-12, 09:01 AM

Thanks for those links cyclone82, I hadn't seen that dual input HDMI to component converter, for the price it sure sounds nice. I agree, it seems like for the best picture quality one needs to get a separate HDMI to component converter and then a separate quality component to S-video converter bringing the total cost a little over $200. It looks like for a better quality HDMI to S-video converter it would cost North of $300 so two separates would still be cheaper.
Considering the cost I think I'll try and figure out how to edit my camera footage on my PC. Since my footage isn't CP'd HDCP isn't a issue but I just figured if I was going to get such a device it would be nice to kill two birds with one stone since I'm not totally happy with the output of my Sima. I guess it seems Hollywood(or who ever the powers are to be) are forcing everyone to move away from standalones and do everything on a PC where programs are easily found....:(:rolleyes:

Cyclone82

05-04-12, 07:55 PM

Heres another one

http://www.cypress.com.tw/english/display.asp?id=402

CYP CM-388

Shame about this though

When receving contents that has HDCP encryption, the CV & SV output will not display image

But i have seen this device elsewhere and not seen that written. There is anotherr one by Shinybow but that seems to have been pulled from market. Could not find one anywhere.

I think the viewhd one is fairly good unless you are maybe a perfectionist. The current model has mostly very good reviews and it sounds far better than those Lenkeng HDMI to S-vid converters flooding ebay but yes you would still need a component to s-vid converter but like you said, a reasonable set up could be had for around $300 if you shop around or can haggle. $80-$100 for HDMI to component & $190-$220 for component to s-vid/composite (viewHD & cypress/ambery/atlona/shinybow etc)

You next best option to the Sima may be the copiall Dv7000 or whatever its called. It seems upto date on the latest CP?.

Its strange how they want to stop restict standalone recording but are letting programes like AnyDVD exist and other devices that will allow getting component and HDMI into a computer.

Seeker47

05-06-12, 11:56 PM

{Please excuse this longish post, covering a lot of ground, which I chose instead of multiple smaller ones.}

Well I have read through this whole thread which took me all day pretty much. I am one of the people looking for a quality component to s-video converter plus a HDMI to component converter. So far it seems no one makes this sort of device all in one unless you want to buy a cheap unit from amazon or something that costs up near $1000 or so.

From what I can gather the top recommended component converters are
Altona
Ambery
Audio Autority
And perhaps Apple TV or some device from svideo.com which I did not read much about
Now here's another one to add to the mix

Cypresss
http://www.cypress.com.tw/english/display.asp?id=400
. . . .

Well, it took me a few days -- bit by bit -- to read through all 19 pages, but I've been interested in the topics covered in this thread. The reasons behind that interest are different and somewhat more immediate than preparing for a situation we may (probably will) be facing, and are detailed here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=21968683#post21968683

I'm using a couple DirecTV HR23-700 receivers, one of which can still usually dub -- in SD, of course -- over to a Pio 640; the other one now most often can NOT, without a great deal of aggravation, and multiple re-tries for pieces that must then be joined together. Prior to several weeks ago, this function was pretty automatic at either video station. Even Premium content posed no problem. These receivers have Component, S-Vid, and Composite Out taps, in addition to the HDMI. Before I got them, almost two years ago now, I specifically inquired about this, and was told that all Outputs were simultaneously Live, without one preempting another. I only used the HDMI Out to the TV + the S-Vid to feed the Pio 640, but success with that particular subset seemed to support what I had been told. Had it been otherwise, I might have chosen a different provider, instead of DirecTV.

The archiving problem I have run into has forced me to begin exploring other options. To that end, I have since ordered what I now know to be the Lenking HDMI -> S-Vid box. I would also be inclined to get a reasonably good Component -> S-Vid box . . . which is where this thread comes in handy. If necessary, I won't stop there, or be deterred by having to spend more than what the Lenking cost.

I have some questions, prompted by various posts in this thread. One poster (much earlier in the thread), wondered about the compatibility of certain units with the DirecTV receivers. I'm wondering about that too. (Mine can output either 480i or 480p, which might be advantageous.)

In post #62, RonnieJP obtained poor results from the Component Out on his (circa 2009) DirecTV receiver. I don't suppose he might still be monitoring this thread, but if so I would ask if he managed to find a better solution ?

Is the "Analog Sunset" spoken of here the same thing as the threat to remotely turn off all non-HDMI outputs ? Whether it is or it isn't, note that this thread extends from 4/2007 to -- by now -- 5/2012, so this threat has been hanging over our heads for quite awhile now, without having yet materialized. (And I'm certainly not saying it won't, btw.)

From what I've read here, in regard to the Component Out I'd be inclined to try the Apple TV or Atlona AT-comp500 ones first -- provided there is no fundamental problem with the Component Out from these receivers. They have only ONE HDMI Out, so a good HDMI DA is probably in the cards . . . unless I can simultaneously avail myself of a Component Out solution. Of course, IF / WHEN they should turn OFF those other taps, I'll be truly hosed, and any $$ invested in these workarounds will be down the drain. At that point, I'd be very inclined to tell DirecTV to GFY (themselves, whatever, for correct syntax), and drop them as my provider.

The reported horizontal shear line issue and AR changes on the Atlona / AA units give me some pause, though.

Any solution that incidentally removes CP -- even if it's an unclaimed, under-the-radar feature -- would be a very big plus.

Ranging a bit farther afield: One poster said "This is one of the reasons I just bought an Oppo Digital BDP-95. . . . On 1/1/14 no BR player may be sold with Analog video outputs." Yes, but their website specs state that
"Analog Video: Composite, Component Video (Y/Pb/Pr, 480i/480p, 720p/1080i available for non-restricted content only." That kind of makes them useless though, doesn't it, unless you do a computer rip & copy first ? Or is there some Oppo production change regarding protected content that has already occurred ?

In post #523 of this thread, Budget_HT said: "If I were you, I would replace the current SD DirecTiVo with a new THR-22 HD DirecTiVo. Then you have HD recordings and your choice of HDMI or Component connections . . . "
This seems to confirm the reports I'd heard about DirecTV's new joint venture with Tivo. But I was under the impression that Tivo had dropped most of the other connectivity options for their boxes (at least on the cable side), leaving only HDMI and ethernet. There was even some doubt as to whether the vaunted Tivo2Go was going to continue much longer ?

That's probably enough for now. May follow up on some more later.

Rammitinski

05-07-12, 02:18 AM

In post #523 of this thread, Budget_HT said: "If I were you, I would replace the current SD DirecTiVo with a new THR-22 HD DirecTiVo. Then you have HD recordings and your choice of HDMI or Component connections . . . "

This seems to confirm the reports I'd heard about DirecTV's new joint venture with Tivo. But I was under the impression that Tivo had dropped most of the other connectivity options for their boxes (at least on the cable side), leaving only HDMI and ethernet.The THR-22 has HDMI, component, s-video and composite out.

Cyclone82

05-07-12, 03:49 AM

I know its not much use now but if i was you i would have passed on the Lenkeng HDMI to s-vid converter and got this

http://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-Component-Converter-Support-Surround/dp/B004F9XVBC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1336379391&sr=8-2

OR HD fury3

and a separate component to s-vid converter.

I will admit i have been tempted to also get one of those Lenkeng converters but i have talked my self out of it.

I have not got a ViewHD yet but the amazon and other reviews are impressive enough for me to grab one.

Undecided on which component to s-vid converter/s to get yet

Lets us know what you think of the Lenkeng though. i think the older models strip HDCP but the new 2012 model you see on ebay does not.

Seeker47

05-07-12, 11:23 AM

The THR-22 has HDMI, component, s-video and composite out.

If that is current gear, they must have added back to this sat receiver desirable items no longer offered on their 4th. gen cable boxes. That sort of begs the question as to 'Why', if these outputs are at all likely to be switched OFF by the provider in the not too distant future ? Otherwise, it almost makes me want to get one, even at the cost of initiating a fresh two-year contract commitment with DirecTV. Before I did that, I would want to ask someone here who has one a few questions about Tivo2Go.

wajo

05-07-12, 11:39 AM

If that is current gear, they must have added back to this sat receiver desirable items no longer offered on their 4th. gen cable boxes. That sort of begs the question as to 'Why', if these outputs are at all likely to be switched OFF by the provider in the not too distant future ? Otherwise, it almost makes me want to get one, even at the cost of initiating a fresh two-year contract commitment with DirecTV. Before I did that, I would want to ask someone here who has one a few questions about Tivo2Go.
The "analog sunset" doesn't apply to cable/sat boxes, they're protected by Fed law, as described below (from one of my help files. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=20556041&postcount=14480))... as long as the boxes have analog outputs, of course. I don't doubt that cable/sat companies won't start ordering such since many people erroneously think they are affected.

The "Analog Sunset"
Here's a good explanation (http://media.extron.com/download/files/whitepaper/analog_sunset.pdf) of the "analog sunset" as mentioned here. It's a licensing agreement between content owners and CE mfgrs that applies to a narrow equipment category (BD) and NOT other equipment. As stated on pg 2 of the pdf doc:

"... analog sunset is also a narrowly defined, regulatory term whereby the performance and behavior of specific types of A/V equipment, namely Bluray Disc (BD) players and recorders, are restricted in a legally binding manner, and this term is not applicable to other equipment.

On pg 5, it states that cable/sat STBs, are not included:

"The analog outputs of cable or satellite TV set-top boxes, including receivers or DVRs, are sometimes improperly associated with the analog sunset. In the United States, the FCC has a regulation, 47 CFR 76.1903, that explicitly prohibits the disabling of analog outputs on cable and satellite set-top boxes...."

Seeker47

05-07-12, 11:44 AM

if i was you i would have passed on the Lenkeng HDMI to s-vid converter and got this

http://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-Component-Converter-Support-Surround/dp/B004F9XVBC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1336379391&sr=8-2

OR HD fury3

and a separate component to s-vid converter.

I'm working off the advice of someone very knowledgeable, whose opinion I greatly respect. He found the Lenkeng generally adequate (allowing for sample variation, which can be a factor . . . or maybe just chalk that up to dubious QC in the manufacturing), and that it did strip HDCP. He also warned me off the HD Fury for certain reasons. If I could have obtained one of the Fury 3 units (apparently) sold in Australia, already correctly firmware-d, known to be working perfectly, at a very reasonable price, I might have considered it.

I will admit i have been tempted to also get one of those Lenkeng converters but i have talked my self out of it.

Lets us know what you think of the Lenkeng though. i think the older models strip HDCP but the new 2012 model you see on ebay does not.

Will do. One idea I tend to be resistant to is having a whole bunch of devices stacked up in the chain, in order to perform a basic task that I used to do going straight in to the DVDR. Thus far, I've seen no signs of DirecTV passing NO COPY flags, of the kind that stymied other DVDRs. (Unless this spontaneous reboot thing is some new ploy along those lines.)

ClearToLand

05-07-12, 01:05 PM

Can a moderator please delete this and above double posts thanks
Only if *YOU* CLICK on the http://images.avsforum.com/avs-images/buttons/report.gif located on the left side of the individual post. :o

Moderators do NOT read EVERY post in EVERY forum. ;)

Note to Cyclone82: Although I'm replying to YOUR post, my reply is not specifically directed to you but as a 'FYI' to *ALL* of the forum members that post the same type of message. :)

ClearToLand

05-07-12, 01:10 PM

Only if *YOU* CLICK on the http://images.avsforum.com/avs-images/buttons/report.gif located on the left side of the individual post. :o

Moderators do NOT read EVERY post in EVERY forum. ;)

Note to Cyclone82: Although I'm replying to YOUR post, my reply is not specifically directed to you but as a 'FYI' to *ALL* of the forum members that post the same type of message. :)
Also, to confirm this for myself, I just went into EDIT Mode for my previous post and I see that I can Delete it myself.

Have you tried that? :confused:

To delete this message, check the appropriate option below and then click the 'Delete this Message' button.

Deletion Options Do Not Delete Message
Delete MessageReason for Deletion:

Cyclone82

05-07-12, 10:32 PM

Well i tried to delete my own posts but could not find a delete button. Some forums only allow moderators to delete posts so i assumed this was one of them as i could see no delete button.

Well i found it now. I am sure it was not their before or maybe juinior members were not allowed to delete own messages?

Yeah you can buy the HD fury on Ebay Australia and direct from th HDfury site. I have heard nothing but good reports on the HDfury3. I plan to get one sometime.

greaser

05-08-12, 01:42 PM

I have heard nothing but good reports on the HDfury3. I plan to get one sometime.

I have a Fury 2 and have never had a moments' worth of trouble with it.
The only possible drawback to the Fury 2 is that(IIRC) to have its FW updated i must send it to the manufacturer,although(IIRC)the EDIDS can be updated by the user.

Seeker47

05-08-12, 02:05 PM

greaser

05-08-12, 02:25 PM

First-hand user reports on this from AVS members would be very welcome.

Sorry i can't give you a first hand report,but i have read a LOT of very positive reviews on this unit.If i didn't already have a Fury 2,i think i would be very tempted to buy it and try it(based on user reviews).That's the only way to know "for sure" if it does what you want it to. I bought my Fury based on the many,many,many positive user reviews,and am glad i bought it.

jjeff

05-08-12, 02:47 PM

ClearToLand

05-08-12, 03:12 PM

I would have given it a try also, but if I was going to go that route I'd want to go directly from HDMI to S-video since I have no recorder that directly uses component. Getting that device I'd need another device(component to s-video converter) which for a quality unit is currently over $300...
Before Cyclone82 began his research, I had pretty much decided to go with the Monoprice Component-to-S-Video Adapter for LT $50 from the Mag FAQ. jjeff, don't you own one?

While HD is noticeably sharper, even on my 'Budget-Level' Panasonic TC-L32C3, to conserve precious HDD space on my 'Free-For-One-Year' FiOS Motorola 7232, I've gotten accustomed to recording most 'Non-Major-Network' shows at SD (thus 4:3PS) and using ZOOM to fill the screen. Until I finally get an OTA antenna re-installed and can begin using my stockpile of CECBs, I currently have 3 Mag DVDRs dedicated to 3 ReplayTVs dedicated to ONE channel each - CBS, NBC, ABC - via Clear QAM. But, for the occasional movies that I'm burning to DVD, it's a darn shame to waste all those bits on 4 bars of black.

So, my question is, how does the 16:9 Anamorphic created by the Monoprice box compare to the HDMI 4:3PS ZOOM'd? ~$40-50 fits my budget; $300 no way. Also, does 'HDMI-to-S-Video' differ much from 'Component-to-S-Video'? Currently, I'd prefer leaving the HDMI connected to the HDMI Automatic Switch which feeds the TV and then, once-in-a-blue-moon, when I need to convert a 4:3PS movie from the 7232, I'd plug in the Monoprice and RTD to the Mag HDD.

I have to give back the 'FREE' 7232 in 2 weeks, so I'm cutting it down-to-the-wire to get the adapter and move the half dozen or so movies off of the 7232. Then, I plan to upgrade my FiOS Motorola 2500 SD STB to a Motorola 7100 HD STD and dedicate it to a ReplayTV with the Monoprice running 24x7 feeding HD 16:9 Anamorphic to the S-Video input of the ReplayTV. But, heaven forbid my wife or I decide to watch something LIVE in HD via HDMI direct to the TV. With an HDMI Adapter, wires would have to be swapped and then remembered to be swapped back; or a manual switch would need to be flipped and then flipped back. Separate HDMI-to-TV and Component-to-Adapter-to-ReplayTV seems preferable.

Is there much of a 'Quality Hit' between converting from HDMI vs Component? How does the Monoprice Component compare to 4:3PS ZOOM'd?

Thanks in advance for your opinions. :)

jjeff

05-08-12, 03:33 PM

I do have a Lenkeng HDMI to S-video converter which I decided to keep since the price was so low and I did have a MonoPrice(I'm sure made by Lenkeng) component to S-video converter. The main reason I returned the MP device was I wasn't all that satisfied with the picture quality and I just didn't need it that bad. I also wasn't all that impressed with the HDMI to S-video converter(I'd say about similar quality to the MP device) but the reason I kept it was twofold. 1.) The $30 was just too cheap to return and 2.) I kind of wanted a last resort device if I had something that was only HDMI output and wanted to record it to one of my DVDRs.

While I wasn't all that impressed with either device, if it was a choice between one of them or recording a postage stamp image(what is outputted from many STBs and such) I'd chose the converters in a instant. Of course your best bet is a quality converter but not everyone wants to spend $300-400 to be able to record. If your in that boat I'd say get one of the MP converters and if for whatever reason your not happy MP is very good about returns, it will just cost you the return shipping(~$5 in my case).
Note a few others have reported better luck than Greaser or myself in regards to picture quality with the Lenkeng converters and it's been speculated that QC may be to blame, I do know I have 3 Sima CT-2 CP removers and one has noticeably better(not so washed out) picture quality. Not sure how much MP would like it but I suppose you could order 3 or 4 converters, try them all and keep the best if you didn't mind screwing around, otherwise just hope for the best:)

wajo

05-08-12, 03:42 PM

On the MP converters, make sure you try both NTSC and PAL switch positions. On PAL, you'll see what actually looks like an "OK" pic but it's not as good as on NTSC. I switched to both several times to make sure the switch wasn't reversed cuz the QC guy was smokin... something. :D

greaser

05-08-12, 03:52 PM

jjeff

05-08-12, 03:57 PM

Jjeff, at one time you gave screenshots of both types of Lenkeng converters you had.They're in a thread you created,to talk about all converters.Maybe you can find them and post a link,then interested people could see it and judge for themselves if they like the PQ or not.??

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1335030&highlight=hdmi+to+s+video
The OP has the screen shots and I updated my above post, I believe it was you and I that weren't too happy with the Lenkeng PQ, not sure why I thought it was SuperEye:D

wajo

05-08-12, 04:31 PM

Here's another take on the MP/Lenkeng (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=20556041&postcount=14480) converters using actual video source (moving pictures like we watch, not static test patterns).

jjeff

05-08-12, 05:49 PM

markrubin

05-08-12, 05:55 PM

I use the MP component to S Video ever since the DirecTV boxes blocked the standard def outputs when set to HD: I use the output to feed a Channel Plus S vid modulator to distribute video throughout the house

The quality of the video through the converter is not as good as the S Video I used to get direct from the box.

I tried several brands and did not see an appreciable difference in any of them

greaser

05-08-12, 06:13 PM

I use the MP component to S Video ever since the DirecTV boxes blocked the standard def outputs when set to HD.

Geez, i hope Dish doesn't start doing that.That'd be a real poke in the eye!!:eek:

jjeff

05-08-12, 06:14 PM

....The quality of the video through the converter is not as good as the S Video I used to get direct from the box.

I tried several brands and did not see an appreciable difference in any of them

That's kind of what I noticed too when comparing the converters S-video out to a non converted S-video output. Of course it's better than the alternative in your case:D
When you said you tried several different brands, did you try any that were a fair amount more expensive($200-$300) or do you think they were all Lenkeng clones? Note due to similar design and features some are speculating most of the sub $100 converters are all made by Lenkeng and just rebranded for specific resellers.
Lastly does your DirecTV box output HDMI and component at the same time? and I take it when you set it to SD it disables HDMI and component or do they output 480i?

kjbawc

05-08-12, 08:00 PM

I've said all the following before, but to refresh memories... :)

I have two Lenkeng component>S-Video converters, one purchased directly from China, and one from MP.

I have an Audio Authority component>S-Video converter.

I have an Atlona component>S-Video converter.

None of these units are perfect. They all cause a little shift from blue to green. None of them make as dark a black as one would want.

I have had good luck, and been reasonably satisfied with the Lenkeng units. As Mark says, their picture is not quite as good as S-Video direct from my DVRs. But, they are consistent, and I have not had some of the problems with them that I have had with the more expensive units. And, producing an anamorphic picture is a definite plus.

The Audio Authority and Atlona units look identical, except for the the font of the labels on the switches, etc. Both have performed pretty much the same. They do have a brighter, sharper picture than the Lenkengs. But, both also tend to over-darken dark scenes, especially in B&W, but also in color. Both can have problems correctly framing LB pictures from SD sources, such as the Sundance Channel, Flix, and FMC. You have to trick it, by switching directly from a SD channel with a full-frame picture, to the one you want to record. I seem to have a special problem with them, using TCMHD. TCMHD puts a thin black border on all sides of a WS picture. When I start playing such a picture, it will be correctly centered. Then, sometime, from 1 - ~15 minutes, the picture will shift to the right, so there is no thin black border on the right, and a double wide one on the left.

But, my main problem with both units is that there is an occasional horizontal shear, maybe once or twice in a film, or maybe not at all, lasting from a second or two, to a minute or so. What seems to happen is that below this shear line, the previous frame is displayed. So, this is only really visible when there is movement, or at a scene change. If you pause a recording of the problem at a scene change, you will see part of the last frame of one scene, and part of the first frame of the other. This can happen on any channel. This happens to me when I am recording something I am playing back on the DVR, I can replay the same scene with the sheer, and the second time it won't be there. Weird, isn't it?

Cyclone82

05-08-12, 10:19 PM

First-hand user reports on this from AVS members would be very welcome.
Does it go 1 --> 2 for HDMI Out, with no signal loss, and thereby lessening the need for a good HDMI DA ? Does it have any incidental benefits, like failing to pass CP ?

I found a fair bit of discussion on the ViewHD on AVS when i did a google search. Lots of links lead here. Yes it works if you have HDMI with CP.

It looks very similar in functions to HDfury 2 or 3. My money is that some of these manufacturers back in Taiwan or what ever are reverse engineering competitors products and making them slightly different. I would not be surprised if HDfury has a considerable mark up which they can do because of their high profile and marketing (fancy website, claiming they are best, good reputation etc) if you have a high end product that works and works well you can do that. There is a big price difference between the fury and the viewhd but electronics wise i bet they coas t about the same to make, but HDfury has the name and better marketing and perhaps there is a little better which allows them to boost the price.

You dont need to necessarily spend $300 plus on a component to s-vid converter. You can get an Ambery one for around $190, which i honestly believe is just the same as the brands out their (Atlona, CYP, Avtool, Audio authority etc) which all most likely originate from the same factory In Taiwan. Greaser uses a Atlona brand of this box with his HDfury.

I have not seen many other quite good under $200 component to s-vid converters except for some from Shinybow in $150-$180 region but i honestly dont know what they are like but i would think they are a step up from the chinese stuff.

I kinda feel that for better quality it would be better to go HDMI to comp in one box and comp to s-vid in another, also for the fact that i have not come across many if any HDMI to s-vid boxes that will allow HDCP signals and also have good pic quality.

greaser

05-08-12, 10:40 PM

kjbawk,if i would have seen what you describe, with my Atlona unit,ie;green shift,off centered pic. i would have 'lost it', thrown a fit and got rid of the thing! However,i have noticed,as you say,a horizontal split in the pic.,it doesn't happen often and is short lived,so it doesn't really annoy me.You may feel diff.

Yes,you do have to "trick it" into displaying a 4x3 pic.correctly.I described that in some of my earlier posts where i said i use 'Fox News HD' as my reference channel.Otherwise i haven't had much difficulty showing any other aspect ratio correctly except 2:35:1 which can be problematic at times but not always.I guess it depends whether the converter is having a 'good day'or not!:p

You're also right about the converter making dark scenes darker.I don't particularly like it but i consider it small price to pay for an otherwise good converter.I thought i could help it by changing the "color scale"(0-255 vs.16-235) setting in my AVR but it didn't change anything.Oh well.:rolleyes:

kjbawc

05-09-12, 02:27 AM

kjbawk,if i would have seen what you describe, with my Atlona unit,ie;green shift,off centered pic. i would have 'lost it', thrown a fit and got rid of the thing! However,i have noticed,as you say,a horizontal split in the pic.,it doesn't happen often and is short lived,so it doesn't really annoy me.You may feel diff.

The green shift is slight, mostly only noticeable when I use my PIP to display the source, and the converter output, side by side, with a blue field displayed.

I only get the off center picture on TCMHD, and I don't lose any of the image, it's just that their narrow black bar is all on the left. I don't like it, but I can live with it.

I'm glad to hear that someone else has seen that horizontal shift! If there isn't much movement, I might not even notice it. But. when someone is moving across the screen, and it is happening, their body is split in half, and offset. That bothers me very much!. I have become adept at finding breaks, where I can rerecord a partial film, and stitch it together with the first one I recorded, and get a single film, without any major splits.

markrubin

05-09-12, 05:47 AM

That's kind of what I noticed too when comparing the converters S-video out to a non converted S-video output. Of course it's better than the alternative in your case:D
When you said you tried several different brands, did you try any that were a fair amount more expensive($200-$300) or do you think they were all Lenkeng clones? Note due to similar design and features some are speculating most of the sub $100 converters are all made by Lenkeng and just rebranded for specific resellers.
Lastly does your DirecTV box output HDMI and component at the same time? and I take it when you set it to SD it disables HDMI and component or do they output 480i?

I think they were all knockoffs of the same thing as mentioned

DirecTV boxes put up a splashscreen over the picture on the composite & S vid output whenever the box is set for higher than 480i: both HDMI & component outs work for HD.

markrubin

05-09-12, 05:50 AM

Geez, i hope Dish doesn't start doing that.That'd be a real poke in the eye!!:eek:

I think they will have to to comply with legal requirements

Cyclone82

05-09-12, 08:27 AM

wajo

05-09-12, 08:37 AM

I bet all those Chinese/Taiwanese engineers are sitting back in their chairs reading this laughing as we all try and work out what converters are originals, what converters are copies of others or are made by another company.

I think i was reading on the Lenkeng site that even they had problems with some guy counterfieting their stuff.

Early on in this thread someone from Lenkeng did post on here from memory. I hate it how its seems with most of these converters there always seems to be one tiny fault, even with the better expensive. Surely these days they can make a converter and it only would require changing the value of a resistor or cap or something.
They might already have!

In that link I gave earlier. there's a note on the $26 MCM CP stripper for VHS on how Tomwil found a pot inside that allowed him to get a better pic and copy ALL his commercial DVDs. Without manipulating that pot, I was able to copy all VHS but only MOST of my toughest comm. DVDs.

See Tomwil's posts #15 & 20 here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=20546456#post20546456)

I've always wondered if these other converter can also be "manipulated" to do better things?

greaser

05-09-12, 08:55 AM

A note in the Atlona AT Comp-500 owners manual:"When input source is not displaying "full screen"(ie;letterbox,pillerbox image)then the output display may come out w/incorrect size or positioning of images.Input source must be set to full screen first before powering on converter".

I guess i didn't see the incorrect positioning you report kjbawk because when i first got my converter i read the "note" and acted accordingly by first inputting a full screen image,and have been doing so ever since(tho' i do know it happens). I use Fox News HD for my reference channel cuz it gives the full screen necessary to fulfill that need.The converter only needs a few seconds to 'lock on' to the image,then when i change channels to TCMHD the aspect ratio(usually 4x3)comes out normally as do other aspect ratios.2:35:1 CAN cause trouble at times,(stretching),it can be cured,but i don't worry about it much cuz i rarely record movies filmed in that AR.In fact,once the unit is fed the "full screen image"just one time at the beginning,i can then record from diff.channels in sequence,each showing a diff.AR and the image will show normally.I commonly do this when i have multiple movies to record from diff.channels,usually unmanned timed recordings while i'm at work.
You can google Atlona AT Comp-500 and it will lead to the Atlona website where you can view a PDF copy of the owners manual and read everything for yourself. This is a good converter that has excellent PQ(far,far superior to the Lenkeng) as long as the source has excellent PQ.I have never seen the green shift you see,my eyes are sensitive to that sort of stuff,and if i saw it i'd have gone thru the roof!!
I have seen it while recording OTA(w/o the converter)on certain "Perry Mason"eps.that i have recorded.I v'e also seen a blue shift,but as i said that was during OTA recordings w/o the converter.

Church AV Guy

05-09-12, 11:59 AM

The MP converter is up to 4.5 out of 5 stars on their site, most of the recent reviews have been 10 out of 10. The most recent reviewer had one of those STBs that gives the irritating warnings about using component cables(I take it he was using only composite and I seem to remember someone at AVS complaining of the same thing) and they said using the converter box they no longer get those warnings, he gave it a 10 of 10.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011407&p_id=7114&seq=1&format=4#feedback
That might have been me complaining about the issue. Yes, DirecTV has made changes to its software that prevents HD and SD outputs from rendering the GUI simultaneously. I am NOT using a converter box however. It is very important to me to record the closed captioning--the imbedded closed captioning-- and none of the converter boxes I tested will pass the CC info onto the composite/S-Video stream. Yes, the CC info is in the component stream because my television, using a component input, will display it just fine, so it HAS to be there.
I use the MP component to S Video ever since the DirecTV boxes blocked the standard def outputs when set to HD: I use the output to feed a Channel Plus S vid modulator to distribute video throughout the house

The quality of the video through the converter is not as good as the S Video I used to get direct from the box.

I tried several brands and did not see an appreciable difference in any of them
This was my experience too. I have since abandoned the idea of using a converter as the quality was inferior to the boxes' own SD output, and the CC issue I mentioned above.
Geez, i hope Dish doesn't start doing that.That'd be a real poke in the eye!!:eek:
It is a result of how DirecTV is processing their new HD GUI, and has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with rules or regulations, so I really don't expect it to happen to Dish, or any other provider.
That's kind of what I noticed too when comparing the converters S-video out to a non converted S-video output. Of course it's better than the alternative in your case:D
When you said you tried several different brands, did you try any that were a fair amount more expensive($200-$300) or do you think they were all Lenkeng clones? Note due to similar design and features some are speculating most of the sub $100 converters are all made by Lenkeng and just rebranded for specific resellers.
Lastly does your DirecTV box output HDMI and component at the same time? and I take it when you set it to SD it disables HDMI and component or do they output 480i?
I tried more than one of the cheap ones, like the Monoprice one, and some much more expensive ones in the >$300 range. The more expensive ones had many more features, (overscan image size, image placement, color & brightness controls (in the really expensive one anyway)) but overall, the picture quality was no better with the really expensive ones than with the inexpensive ones (the wife preferred the inexpensive ones to the more expensive ones:rolleyes:) so I just packed them all back up, sent them back, and went to converting the output of the box from HD to SD when I make a recording. It's a hassle, but I get the CC info, and the picture quality is superior. If I could find a converter that did what I want, I'd be using it--believe me!

When I set my HR21s and HR22s to HD, the SD outputs are active and putting out 480i, but there is no guide information ever displayed on screen. When you press a button that would call up any page of the guide, you get this hideous screen with a message telling you that the television you are watching is not HD, or at least the cabling is not. I KNOW that--I don't need to be continuously told that--but there is no way to disable ot inhibit this irritating NAG screen!:( When I use the "cancel button" which is a workaround that DirecTV gave us to change screen resolution from HD to SD and back, the machine converts the HD outputs to 480p, and the SD outputs (of course) stay at 480i. All outputs on my DirecTV HRxx DVRs are simultaneously active all the time. It was great before the HD GUI, now it's much less than great. Complaints have been made, but DirecTV has responded iwth a replay something like, only a VERY small number of customers use HD and SD soutputs simultaneously, so it isn;t worth their time to change the current programming.:mad:

greaser

05-09-12, 03:49 PM

^^^ Luke where'd you find converters with features like image size, image color,image placement,and color and brightness controls in the~$300.00-$400.00 range??:confused:(my guess since you said >$300.00 range).My Atlona has over/underscan,andNTSC/PAL switches,but i only paid $207.00+5.00 shipping.I looked at a LOT,and i mean a LOT of converters before i bought the Atlona,and the converters i saw that had the features you mention seem IIRC, to start at ~$600.00 and up.I saw some really nice converters(Component>s vid.) in the $800.00-$2000.00 range,but who can afford those!!!:eek: Some of those converters had functions that i'm totally unfamiliar with and whose names i cannot remember anymore.Real Fancy stuff!!!
Now i'm not trying to start an argument or anything,far from it but,i have a hard time believing that out of all those converters that you tried,you couldn't find one that couldn't Significantly outdo a Lenkeng in PQ,then i'm Really glad i bought an Atlona,because its PQ blows the Lenkeng right out of the water.

Cyclone82

05-09-12, 06:15 PM

Luke where'd you find converters with features like image size, image color,image placement,and color and brightness controls in the~$300.00-$400.00 range??

They are out there

but about $420 seems the cheapest with those features before going bargain hunting. I have mentioned them several times in my last posts in recent weeks in this thread. I will find some part numbers later but off the top of my head Cypress CH380 or CH380A is one of them and then theres all the re brands of that unit. Some currently on US ebay.

I am going to look back at what Kramer and Tvone offers now because i have found a place in Australia that sells those brands several hundred dollars cheaper than in USA..... amazing.

Church AV Guy

05-09-12, 06:29 PM

Well, you got me there. The one in particular with all those features was loaned to me by a friend in the video business, so it was a professional model. I don't even know the price of that one, but it had a really objectionable picture quality on my HD televison. I'm not sure how to describe it, but you could very clearly see the grouped SD scan lines that made the picture look jagged and blocky--espically printing. I did not see this picture flaw with any of the others. It was also much larger than the others, so there was a lot going on in there. And before you ask, I don't remember a make or model. I knew it was way out of my price range, so I never paid attention. Probably as you say, in the $800-$2000 range.

The ~$300 converters I got from B&H. They each had one or combinations of position adjustment (small adjustment) and over/under scan picture size features. Do a search, they have a bunch in many price ranges. they all work, but none of them actually looked better than the DirecTV receiver's own SD output. Many of them were more expensive than the HR2x receiver I was connecting them to, so it would actually have been cheaper to get an additional receiver and run one SD only while the other was HD only than get a converter that was over $300.

I let my wife look at the pictures and judge what she thought looked best to her. She had no idea what the source was, and the HR2x won every head to head comparison. I had to conceed the issue and return the equipment.

greaser

05-09-12, 06:30 PM

They are out there

but about $420 seems the cheapest with those features before going bargain hunting. I have mentioned them several times in my last posts in recent weeks in this thread. I will find some part numbers later but off the top of my head Cypress CH380 or CH380A is one of them and then theres all the re brands of that unit. Some currently on US ebay.

I think iv'e pretty well learned that when it comes to this kind of converter,it's best to buy 'new',because used 'bargains' oft times come with a hidden price,ie;they're somebody else's throw away headache,they have problems that the seller will not disclose,especially on ebay.I won't buy from ebay.

Cyclone82

05-09-12, 10:02 PM

Ofcourse, i agree, i am not talking about used ones. You can buy them new on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VGA-Component-to-S-Video-Composite-Converter-/120336925399?pt=US_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item1c04a3c2d7

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AVT-3190-HDTV-to-Composite-Component-S-Video-Converter-/190659669425?pt=US_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item2c6433adb1

Both these sites have websites aswell where you can buy them from

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hall-Research-VHD-180-PC-HDTV-to-TV-Scan-Converter-/220987731587?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3373e52e83

same as above but $100 more :(

REVIEW on the Hall Research version

http://www.madisontech.com.au/downloads/products/dl_2_hrt-vhd-180.pdf

AVT version for $420
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/377254-REG/AV_Toolbox_AVT_3190_AVT_3190_Scan_Converter.html

under $200
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1080i-HD-Component-Video-To-480i-Composite-RCA-Video-S-Video-Down-Converter-/190625407073?pt=US_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item2c6228e061

this only has VGA input but notice how the photo shows a Cypress unit but the description says Atlona, Why because they are the same and come from Cypress originally. Atlona no longer sells the component version like the AVT brand though.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ATLONA-VGA-PC-to-COMPONENT-COMPOSITE-and-S-VIDEO-CONVERTER-TV-SCAN-AT-PC-AVSCOMP-/260829887975?pt=US_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item3cbaac3de7

Church AV Guy

05-10-12, 11:11 AM

I looked at many like the ones you have posted links for, and I even tried a couple from B&H, but they are much more than I was willing to pay and they all had some artificat I wasn't happy with.

Since the thread title is "Cheaper Component to S-Video Converter" these are rather off-topic. ~$200 to $450 is not cheaper. In this case, you don't always get value for your money as you point out, many identical units are sold for vastly different prices.:( For general purpose work, the Monorpice one at ~$45 worked just about as well as the ~$400 ones.

Shrug.

Bizarro_Stormy

05-10-12, 08:53 PM

jjeff

05-10-12, 09:35 PM

I have 3 questions...

This converter has been bought by some and discussed...
HDMI to Composite /S-Video Converter (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0047PDBP0/)

1.) Is the S-VIDEO picture quality from the converter at least better than a composite connection?
IMO No. If you have access to a direct WS composite connection that will be better than the HDMI to S-video converter output. That said if your composite connection is letterboxed I'd take the converted output. Personally I couldn't tell much of a difference between the converters composite and S-video output(even though I normally much prefer S-video to composite).

2.) How does the S-VIDEO picture quality from the converter compare to a "real or actual" S-VIDEO output to S-VIDEO input connection?
See above, I didn't notice much of a difference between the converters composite and S-video output. Neither output compared to a direct composite or S-video output.

On Amazon, many complain that the converter runs hot and/or has a high failure rate... a failure rate which may be tied to the heat it generates...

3.) Has anyone performed mods to the casing of the converter... such as removing the top/bottom of the casing and drilling holes in the casing itself to help dissipate the heat the converter generates?

I believe Wajo said removing the ends of his converter made it run cooler, while it does run a little warm I'm not too worried since I unplug it when not in use, I don't think it runs much warmer than my Sima which is several years old and still keeps going.
As much as I may sound negative about this device I still think it beats letterboxed composite or S-video, I just wish it looked closer to a direct wide screen composite or S-video. Because of this for simple CP removal I'm continuing to use my Sima but for letterboxed output I'm using my HDMI to S-video converter. I've kind of summized to get much better quality one would need to spend drastically more money and possibly go with two devices. One to convert from HDMI to component and another to go from component to S-video, something I'm not really willing to do.
Monoprice now sells a HDMI to S-video converter, I'd assume it's the same as your Amazon link but $6 more + shipping.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011411&p_id=8667&seq=1&format=2

wajo

05-11-12, 06:25 AM

I have 3 questions...

This converter has been bought by some and discussed...
HDMI to Composite /S-Video Converter (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0047PDBP0/)

All answers welcome and thanks in advance for the info...
Here's my help file (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=20556041&postcount=14480) with some info on the converters.

Kelson

05-11-12, 11:28 AM

IMO No. If you have access to a direct WS composite connection that will be better than the HDMI to S-video converter output . . . . Personally I couldn't tell much of a difference between the converters composite and S-video output(even though I normally much prefer S-video to composite) . . . . Neither output compared to a direct composite or S-video output.
Your observations are completely understandable and not surprising. I think the problem with any of these ultra-cheap HDMI --> analog converters is going to be the quality of the DAC. You are going from digital to analog output. To do that in a quality way requires a quality DAC -- ask any audio enthusiast. Quality DAC's are not cheap and so no one should expect a quality DAC in a $30 converter -- especially if it is chinese design. They are what they are: functional (for now) but lacking in performance. There might be a positive way to look at this -- if the quality of the picture from the converter is below that of direct composite, people may find that recording in 4hr mode vs. 2hr mode doesn't make much difference in PQ of the final output and you can pack a higher amount of lower quality video on a disk.

jjeff

05-11-12, 01:37 PM

Your observations are completely understandable and not surprising. I think the problem with any of these ultra-cheap HDMI --> analog converters is going to be the quality of the DAC. You are going from digital to analog output. To do that in a quality way requires a quality DAC -- ask any audio enthusiast. Quality DAC's are not cheap and so no one should expect a quality DAC in a $30 converter -- especially if it is chinese design.....
I can understand that but why do cheaper component to S-video converters also lack sharpness/quality? Isn't component analog and therefor wouldn't require a DAC?

...Thinking this through maybe the key for component to S-video quality lies in changing the resolution from HD to SD? Maybe they use a ADC(if their is such a thing) to go from analog component to digital, change the resolution digitally and then a DTA to convert from the digital back to analog S-video/composite? If this is the case then maybe a component to S-converter that only accepted 480i component input may provide a better S-video output? The one problem with that(and why I believe most modern converters allow all resolution inputs) is many devices will not output 480i component(my camera is such a device) only 480p and above? Some good points to ponder for those who have access to 480i component.....I believe Nextoo's original component-to-S-video Apple converter was just such a device(only allowed 480i component input) and I don't remember Nextoo complaining about PQ. Of course since component is 0 IRE and S-video/composite is 7.5 IRE the designers would have had to take that into account also(otherwise the picture would be too dark).
Lots of things to go wrong with such converters and if someone wasn't paying attention or price was the only concern I can see how the picture quality could suffer:(

Super Eye

05-11-12, 05:09 PM

I think the problem with any of these ultra-cheap HDMI --> analog converters is going to be the quality of the DAC. You are going from digital to analog output. To do that in a quality way requires a quality DAC -- ask any audio enthusiast. Quality DAC's are not cheap and so no one should expect a quality DAC in a $30 converter -- especially if it is chinese design. They are what they are: functional (for now) but lacking in performance.

I totally agree with the above.

There might be a positive way to look at this -- if the quality of the picture from the converter is below that of direct composite, people may find that recording in 4hr mode vs. 2hr mode doesn't make much difference in PQ of the final output and you can pack a higher amount of lower quality video on a disk.

I don’t agree with that. In fact from my observations in many cases when you start off with a low quality source (as in using a cheap HDMI to analog gizmo) it is even more important to use a high bit-rate as a low bit-rate will exaggerate all the flaws in the signal.

I can understand that but why do component to S-video converters also lack sharpness/quality? Isn't component analog and therefor wouldn't require a DAC?

There is a lot of converting going on going from analog three-channel component to analog two-channel S-Video. I’m guessing that it may be cheaper for the converter to be designed to go analog-component to digital-component to analog-s-video. I can’t say for sure – just guessing.

Bizarro_Stormy

05-11-12, 08:46 PM

IMO No...
See above...

Thanks for all your info and opinion jjeff... it's greatly appreciated. :)

I think I'll hold off for now... and keep trying to convince DISH NETWORK to find and send me a VIP222 to replace my new VIP222K receiver...

The VIP222 has S-Video output, whereas the VIP222K does not... but, according to them, the VIP222 is not manufactured anymore... :mad:

Heck, I'd take a used unit if they could find me one...

dare2be

05-11-12, 09:38 PM

Upgrade to a 722(k)? Guess you don't want a DVR?

Bizarro_Stormy

05-11-12, 10:55 PM

Mike99

05-11-12, 11:05 PM

Thanks for all your info and opinion jjeff... it's greatly appreciated. :)

I think I'll hold off for now... and keep trying to convince DISH NETWORK to find and send me a VIP222 to replace my new VIP222K receiver...

The VIP222 has S-Video output, whereas the VIP222K does not... but, according to them, the VIP222 is not manufactured anymore... :mad:

Heck, I'd take a used unit if they could find me one...

I have the 722K and think recording from the composite output looks pretty good. My friend thinks viewing the composite on his 60" HDTV also looks pretty good.

dare2be

05-11-12, 11:41 PM

heh...

I already own 3 DVR type devices... a Maggie 515 + V2160A, and a Panny EZ-27... so I don't really need a receiver with a built-in one...

Plus, they cost more a month with the DVR fee...

I already gave DISH NETWORK my first born son...
Don't want to give them my right arm too...

or do I?... ;)

I use my dual-tuner 722 to time-shift, auto-search and record content based on title/description, and then transfer the DVR recordings I want to keep thru S-video or composite to my Mags for DVD archiving. So I see the $6/month as well worth it. Just giving my perspective.

kjbawc

05-13-12, 12:21 AM

I bought the Atlona new, and read the manual thoroughly. Besides that, I was already familiar with the need to power up with a SD 4x3 image, because of owning an Audio Authority converter. Unfortunately, even though I tried that with both converters, repeatedly, when I first installed them, and they are never turned off, but plugged into a UPS, that doesn't really work. True, both converters will quickly lock on to both WS HD images, and 4x3 SD images, but getting a lock on a 4x3 LB SD image requires a little trick. What I do is start play on a TCM 4x3 SD image, then switch to the DVR recording with the 4x3 LB SD image, and it locks quickly. I don't do a lot of timer recordings, but dub DVR>DVDR instead, so it isn't much of a problem.

That green shift I'm talking about is very slight. Just looking at the converted image, I don't think things look greener. But, using my PIP to make a side-by-side display of the original, and converted signal, and with the screen mostly blue, like a blue sky, or a TCM card, one notices a very subtle green shift. Unless you can compare the images side-by-side, you might not notice it.

A note in the Atlona AT Comp-500 owners manual:"When input source is not displaying "full screen"(ie;letterbox,pillerbox image)then the output display may come out w/incorrect size or positioning of images.Input source must be set to full screen first before powering on converter".

I guess i didn't see the incorrect positioning you report kjbawk because when i first got my converter i read the "note" and acted accordingly by first inputting a full screen image,and have been doing so ever since(tho' i do know it happens). I use Fox News HD for my reference channel cuz it gives the full screen necessary to fulfill that need.The converter only needs a few seconds to 'lock on' to the image,then when i change channels to TCMHD the aspect ratio(usually 4x3)comes out normally as do other aspect ratios.2:35:1 CAN cause trouble at times,(stretching),it can be cured,but i don't worry about it much cuz i rarely record movies filmed in that AR.In fact,once the unit is fed the "full screen image"just one time at the beginning,i can then record from diff.channels in sequence,each showing a diff.AR and the image will show normally.I commonly do this when i have multiple movies to record from diff.channels,usually unmanned timed recordings while i'm at work.
You can google Atlona AT Comp-500 and it will lead to the Atlona website where you can view a PDF copy of the owners manual and read everything for yourself. This is a good converter that has excellent PQ(far,far superior to the Lenkeng) as long as the source has excellent PQ.I have never seen the green shift you see,my eyes are sensitive to that sort of stuff,and if i saw it i'd have gone thru the roof!!
I have seen it while recording OTA(w/o the converter)on certain "Perry Mason"eps.that i have recorded.I v'e also seen a blue shift,but as i said that was during OTA recordings w/o the converter.

Doug O

05-13-12, 08:46 AM

Thanks for all your info and opinion jjeff... it's greatly appreciated. :)

I think I'll hold off for now... and keep trying to convince DISH NETWORK to find and send me a VIP222 to replace my new VIP222K receiver...

The VIP222 has S-Video output, whereas the VIP222K does not... but, according to them, the VIP222 is not manufactured anymore... :mad:

Heck, I'd take a used unit if they could find me one...

Well, these do turn up on EBay once in awhile, much like the sought after 211 which also retains the s-video output and can be modded to record the direct stream. My days of playing with electronics are done though. My eyes won't take it anymore. Getting tired of using magnifying glasses to read labels on ports and such and no more burning myself with soldering irons. :D

Cyclone82

05-13-12, 08:57 AM

But, using my PIP to make a side-by-side display of the original, and converted signal

So PIP means picture in picture, what actual device do you use to do this?

kjbawc

05-13-12, 09:38 PM

So PIP means picture in picture, what actual device do you use to do this?

PIP is a function of my Samsung DLP HDTV. For the particular comparison I was doing, one side of the screen shows the HD component output from my cable DVR (via my AVR,) and the other side shows the S-Video output from my DVDR, which is receiving the component output from the DVR via a component>S-Video converter.

I haven't shopped for TVs for a while, so I don't really know, but my sense is that the PIP function is becoming rare. I love being able to do a side-by-side comparison of source and recording. Also, I often do editing on one of my DVDRs, while watching another program on the split screen. I think that cable DVRs with two tuners diminished the popularity of PIPs, because you can switch back and forth between the two tuners, and back up, if you missed some of the main program you were watching.

Cyclone82

05-13-12, 10:38 PM

Ok thanks. I know some 'prosumer' type video monitors have PIP function built in such as

http://www.productshop.co.uk/hd.asp?product=lcd215hd which i was considering getting

Bizarro_Stormy

05-15-12, 08:58 PM

Well, these do turn up on EBay once in awhile...

I got really lucky... :D

Went through Dish Network technical support, instead of the usual CSA.
She sympathized with our plight, and found us 2 new VIP222's... :D

Should be here by Wednesday night [WOOT!]...

jjeff

05-16-12, 07:11 AM

I trust you'll get much better picture quality with a native S-video device:) My guess is you could spend over $500 and on a external converter and not get better. Of course if your source is CP'd you'd need a filter which would cost in excess of $100 and would degrade the picture quality back to the quality of a $200 component-to-S-video converter, hopefully you won't have to worry about that.

Seeker47

05-17-12, 02:32 PM

The Shinybow unit was mentioned earlier in this thread -- favorably, I think. It was also said to have disappeared off the market. Anyone have more current info on that ?

Bizarro_Stormy

05-17-12, 06:46 PM

I trust you'll get much better picture quality with a native S-video device:).

You are correct sir...! :D

I'm actually amazed at how much sharper the picture is using an S-VIDEO connection compared to a COMPOSITE one...

Also using a COMPONENT video connection straight to my TV...

I'm quite satisfied with my standard def TV's picture quality...
It's 32 inch Toshiba 32a43...

Switching between S-VIDEO and COMPONENT, it's hard to tell the difference picture-wise... though the COMPONENT video's colors are a tad "brighter"...

Cyclone82

05-17-12, 10:22 PM

Heres a couple

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/818178-REG/Atlona_AT_COMP500_Component_Video_to_S_Video.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/616481-REG/TV_One_1T_VS_223_1T_VS_223_YPbPr_Component_To.html

Cheaper than ebay

regarding Shinybow, Go to their EU site and find the converters part number by input and output types then google the part numbers.
http://www.shinybow.eu/eshop/p-104/k-24/sb3681n-component-%3E-videosvideo-converter/
http://www.shinybow.eu/eshop/p-103/k-24/sb3681p-component-%3E-scart-converter/

I will try and find some sites selling these later.

I know the one is availble here
https://www.audiovisualdevices.com.au/viewprod.php?catid=&productid=SB3681

but to break the audio out of the scart connector you will need a simple $5 adaptor

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Scart-Adapter-Switchable-Plug-Socket/dp/B00077DC6A/ref=sr_1_17?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1337312003&sr=1-17
http://www.amazon.co.uk/SCART-Adapter-PHONO-S-VHS-OUT/dp/B000JJ5FLG/ref=sr_1_21?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1337312003&sr=1-21
http://stores.ebay.com.au/Selby-Acoustics/_i.html?_nkw=scart&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=
You can get some that have no switch too.

There was one i mentioned a few pages back on a US site that has RC audio out rather than having the audio out only in the scart output.

ClearToLand

05-18-12, 01:01 AM

I've been following this discussion for quite some time now and due to circumstances which changed within the past week, I've come to the following conclusion:

IMHO, there are TWO reasons to use a 'XXX-to-YYY' converter. You want to record: 'Watch-and-Delete' HD 16:9A from your HD STB / PVR onto your SD DVDR.
.
'Watch-and-Keep' HD 16:9A from your HD STB / PVR onto your HD PC (ala Hauppauge PVR-1212, for example).For the sake of this discussion, let's say that 7 days ago, based on the posts in this forum regarding 'Conversion Quality' and 'Analog Sunset', I ordered: HDMI Splitter Amplifier 1 In to 2 Out Dual Display (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015YRMXI/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00)
HDMI to YPbPr Component Video Converter for HDTV PC PS3 STB, DVD and Projector (Support HDCP 1.2) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004VV8QN2/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00)
HDMI to Composite /S-Video Converter 3RCA CRT TV CVBS (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0047PDBP0/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i01)
Digital Coax & Optical Toslink to Analog Audio Converter (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004C4WPXA/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i02)Then, let's say 6 days ago, Newegg put the Hauppauge PVR-1212 *ON SALE* for ~$155 plus tax ($195 - $15 Promo - $20 Rebate - ~$5 FWCB).
Although I read everything I found about the 1212, I wasn't swayed until the HUGE price drop - AFAIK, the "Best Price EVER" was ~$150. So, on impulse, I bought it. WOW!!!

IME, there's a STEEP Learning Curve for the 1212, with no (that I've yet to find) FAQ or Tutorial. Since I have to return my "FREE-For-One-Year" FiOS Motorola 7232 HD PVR on 05/22/12, I initially jumped in with my 'Best Guesses', while I continued to read everything I could find on the 1212. After a couple of days, 'Experimentation' and 'Reading Posts' CLICKed and I 'Found-My-Way'. I'm currently 'Converting' all of my saved HD videos to the 'MAX Possible' VBR to fit on an AVCHD DVD, using TOSLink to get 5.1 sound (where available). Yeah, some 'Best Guesses' were wrong and I had to RE-CONVERT. But, watching these HD videos on one of my ~$50 Media Streamers is just heaven. :cool:

I also added another 40" x 3" x 3/4" strip of plywood to the back of my 'Entertainment Center' so that I could add another row of 3 'Multiple Outlet' (i.e. 6 or 7) strips. The majority of the 'Chinese Device' Walwarts require a 'Readily-Available' horizontal (i.e. prongs go in horizontally) strip, while I've been constantly shopping for the 'Rare' vertical strip, which the majority of my existing walwarts *AND* X-10 modules have required.

Thus, I've been able to test the HDMI-to-S-Video Converter - UGH! :( The HDMI Splitter works well - I split the output from my FiOS PVR to the TV and to the HDMI-to-S-Video Converter. The TV looks the same. The output from the HDMI-to-S-Video Converter doesn't even belong in the same room with the output from the 1212.

Following the same logic as jjeff, I also bought the HDMI-to-Component Converter for ~$30 just in case the 'Analog Sunset' removes Component Outputs from STBs / PVRs (I haven't tried it yet - no time right now - the 1212 is running almost 24x7).

The Coax / TOSLink-to-Analog Converter unfortunately arrived DOA. Good Coax or TOSLink outputs that feed other devices provide NO OUTPUT from the Converter. I'm glad that I used Amazon as the go-between in case there's a problem getting a replacement *AND* a prepaid mailing label to return the DOA one.

Closing Thoughts: The output from the 1212 is VASTLY superior to the output from the 'Chinese Device'.
.
The output from the 1212 is slightly inferior to the original STB / PVR output, even @ 13.5VBR w/TOSLink.
.
SD output from either the 1212 or the 'Chinese Device' is still 4:3.
.
~$155 for a 1212, plus ~$50 for a Media Streamer (everyone already has a PC) for a grand total of ~$205 produces some *GREAT* HD videos, which you can also burn to DVDs as AVCHD (haven't had the time to try this yet).
.
As someone who was previously perfectly satisfied watching Analog Cable recorded @ STD / Low on a ReplayTV 5XXX and viewed on a CRT, along with being even more perfectly satisfied watching Digital 'Clear QAM' FiOS recorded @ MED on a ReplayTV 5XXX (fed via S-Video from a Mag DVDR) and viewed on a LCD HDTV, I can honestly say that I'm surprisingly pleased that I can create AVCHDs (aka 'Pseudo Blu-Ray') shows on 4.7GB DVDs *AND* store them on my 'Media Server HDD(s)' where I can then view them via one of my (previously 'under-utilized') Media Streamers.

Anyhow, that's my contribution regarding 'XXX-to-YYY' Converters. Accept / Be-Aware-Of UPFRONT their 'Price vs Capabilities' so that you won't be disappointed after your purchase.

ClearToLand

05-18-12, 01:54 AM

The FIRST thing that I noticed about these devices is that they have NO FEET! They are all just metal cases.
Thus, I'm now shopping for (at least) 16 (at least) ¼" rubber feet.
.
The SECOND thing that I noticed is that the 'HDMI-to-S-Video' Converter runs "Hot-to-the-Touch" (as Wajo previously noted in his FAQ). I taped my ancient RadioShack Indoor/Outdoor Thermometer's Outdoor Probe to the case and after ~1 hour it's reading 103.8°F, which, although feels HOT to the touch, is still lower than the temps my *CRAP* NiMH cells reach when charging. :rolleyes:
.
The THIRD thing that I noticed is that WHATEVER combination of devices and/or cables I try, the 'Coaxial / TOSLink-to-Analog' Converter is DOA. :(Since it's now *WAY* past my bedtime, I just started up a CONCURRENT record of "Falling Skies" HD Series 1 (~10 hours) on my PC via the 1212 @ 13.5VBR and on a Mag DVDR, through the 'New' "HDMI-to-S-Video" Converter @ SP. We'll see tomorrow, aka later today, how they compare...

Kelson

05-18-12, 09:06 AM

Then, let's say 6 days ago, Newegg put the Hauppauge PVR-1212 *ON SALE* for ~$155 plus tax ($195 - $15 Promo - $20 Rebate - ~$5 FWCB).
Although I read everything I found about the 1212, I wasn't swayed until the HUGE price drop - AFAIK, the "Best Price EVER" was ~$150. So, on impulse, I bought it. WOW!!!

IME, there's a STEEP Learning Curve for the 1212, with no (that I've yet to find) FAQ or Tutorial. Congratulations, you have taken your first steps towards the light. Do a search in the HDTV Recorders forum for threads on the 1212 -- here is one to get you started (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1141008&highlight=hd+pvr+1212). You will also find it discussed in the HTPC forum. You can ask for tutorial links and alternative capture software there. You are already familiar with this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1389286) where we have been talking about alternative recording/authoring of HD/5.1. If you are going to continue with the HD PVR 1212 (and it sounds like you will) you absolutely need to make the investment in Video ReDo H.264. There is also discussion of some inexpensive programs to author AVCHD/BDMV disks.

There is a learning curve, but it can be fun because the results are so good compared to what you were doing. A couple quick tips.

Recording bitrate is crucial. The original bitrate of the program doesn't matter because you are converting it to analog, sending it out the component port and re-encoding to H.264 digital -- because of that it will always never look quite as good as the original digital signal. So you are in the analogous situation you have been with a DVD recorder as far as choosing a "recording mode" depending on how much you want to fit on a disk. With a DVDR you could fit 2 hr of quality SD/2.0 on a DVD-R with an MPEG-2 bitrate of ~4.5Mbps. For good quality HD/5.1 it's more like 40 min using MPEG-2. H.264/AVC is a more efficient modern codec but it is not a miracle codec that lets you squash a recording down to put 2-3 hr of HD/5.1 on a DVD-R. Rule of thumb for MPEG-2 --> H.264 is ~70% of original size for equivalent PQ, so you are looking at ~1hr of HD/5.1 on a DVD-R as H.264. I would not go any less than that with the 1212. As always, the quality of your display and your vision will be the ultimate arbiters.

IMHO, burning HD/5.1 to DVD-R is a waste of time. You need a BD player anyway to play an AVCHD disk so just burn it to BD-R to start with and get 5 hr of HD/5.1 on the disk.

greaser

05-19-12, 01:16 PM

True, both converters will quickly lock on to both WS HD images, and 4x3 SD images, but getting a lock on a 4x3 LB SD image requires a little trick. What I do is start play on a TCM 4x3 SD image, then switch to the DVR recording with the 4x3 LB SD image, and it locks quickly. I don't do a lot of timer recordings, but dub DVR>DVDR instead, so it isn't much of a problem.

I'm watching The Diary Of Anne Frank, 4x3 LB version on TCM HD right now, and the converter has no problem locking onto the LB version so long as i first feed it a WS image from Fox News HD. However,if i feed it the image from TCM-HD first,the pic. shifts around as the converter is trying to'lock on'but can't.If i start with TCM-HD,allow the converter to give the wrong AR,then turn to FN-HD,let the converter 'lock on' to that image,then switch back to TCM-HD it will then show the correct AR.(4X3 LB).I don't mind having to use these little "tricks"at all,if it allows me to get the correct AR,Not being able to get the correct AR is what would piss me off!(Thank God for "little tricks"!!:)) I do a lot of unmanned timed recordings,so i'm glad there are "little tricks".I never use the TCM-SD feed.

PS:These 'quirks'in the converter that some may look upon as 'flaws',are actually caused by an intentionally"built in feature" that Atlona added for professional techs.who work with large commercial TV/video equipment installs.These converters are made PRIMARILY for commercial use,not for home use,but may be used that way(home use).At least that is the thumbnail sketch given me for their use from an Atlona CSR.:confused:

kjbawc

05-20-12, 01:53 AM

Greaser, I'm not sure I understand. You were getting a "4x3 LB version on TCM HD?" Meaning it had black bars on all four sides of the picture, while watching TCMHD from a HD input on your TV? Or, do you mean that your converter was inappropriately causing you to see the WS TCMHD version as a 4x3 on an SD input?

Neither of my high end converters ever has any trouble locking on a signal from a HD channel, even if it doesn't fill the screen. They only have trouble locking on to 4x3 LB images from SD channels. They lock on to full 4x3 images from SD, and HD channels just fine, very quickly.

I record WS films from TCMHD, I record 4x3 films from TCM SD. If you record a 4x3 film from a HD channel, you have to stretch it to get the aspect ratio right. That means that you are wasting pixels to produce black side bars, when recording 4x3 from a HD channel. That reduces the picture resolution.

Cyclone82

05-20-12, 02:23 AM

Neither of my high end converters

What ones have you got?

kjbawc

05-20-12, 02:46 AM

Audio Authority (no longer made,) and Atlona (pretty much identical.) A week or so back, I list all of my converters, and discuss their performance.

greaser

05-20-12, 08:59 AM

Greaser, I'm not sure I understand. You were getting a "4x3 LB version on TCM HD?" Meaning it had black bars on all four sides of the picture, while watching TCMHD from a HD input on your TV.

Was watching TCM-HD.Had black bars on top and bottom only,no window boxing.Compared the unconverted Component HD signal on my tv's Component input to the converted signal as seen and shown by my Maggie DVDR.Both pics.showed the identical AR.Today starting at 11:30AM TCM will be showing 4 movies in a row that are listed as being letterboxed,i'll do some comparing between the unconverted Component HD feed,the converted Component feed from TCM-HD again,and compare those images with the images i get from TCM-SD. I haven't done many these comparisons before.I might learn something.:eek::cool:

Johnla

05-20-12, 09:15 AM

Thus, I'm now shopping for (at least) 16 (at least) ¼" rubber feet.

Radio Shack has some.

Large

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2104070

Small.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103342

And Parts Express has them in numerous different sizes.

http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?searchFilter=RUBBER+FEET&srchExt=&perPage=25&sortBy=0&layout=list&page=1&srchPrice=&srchCat=139&srchMfg=&srchPromo=&srchAttr=

Cyclone82

05-20-12, 09:41 AM

Also i saw plenty on ebay too

greaser

05-20-12, 11:53 AM

jjeff

05-20-12, 12:13 PM

OK kjbawk,this is what i see watching The Seven Year Itch on TCM.

According to IMDb The Seven Year Itch is a(cinemascope) 2.55 : 1 film(extremely wide, even wider than the normal 2.35 : 1 widescreen movie) so you'll see rather wide bars on the top and bottom of a normal 1.77 : 1 HDTV. No way around that without cropping or stretching things very tall.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048605/

greaser

05-20-12, 12:33 PM

According to IMDb The Seven Year Itch is a(cinemascope) 2.55 : 1 film(extremely wide, even wider than the normal 2.35 : 1 widescreen movie) so you'll see rather wide bars on the top and bottom of a normal 1.77 : 1 HDTV. No way around that without cropping or stretching.

Yes jjeff,the bars were rather wide on the screen.
Well this might make for an interesting afternoon. The next three movies are also listed as being LB versions.
Bell,Book,and Candle (1.85:1)
The Far Country (1.77:1)
The Spirit Of St.Louis (2.35:1)
I'll have to watch to see the differences.
Gee,i have rarely watched movies quite this closely before just to check out and compare AR's.God forbid i might actually Learn something!!:):):)

PS:Bell,Book,and Candle just came on.
TCM-HD shows with very thin black bars (1/4")top/bottom,thru the unconverted Component input on the tv,and with even thinner bars on the converted video thru my Mag.
TCM-SD shows with heavier bars all the way around(window boxed,1-1/8")on both the converted and unconverted video feeds.The pic. seems to be darker in some scenes.

Unfortunately this won't help kjbawk with his question about 4x3 LB movies.I'll have to keep my eyes open for one.When i read TCM's schedule it said "letterboxed", i assumed they would be 4x3 LB. I should have checked IMDb.

kjbawk the next time you see a 4x3 LB movie coming on tv will you kindly PM me beforehand with the station/date/time(especially if it's on TCM) so i can test for myself whether or not these converters have a hard time 'locking on' to this AR??? I can't recall with any certainty recording any 4x3 LB movies.I probably have...just can't remember it.

jjeff

05-20-12, 02:09 PM

As I said previously our 16:9 TVs are 1.77 : 1 so you should see no bars, 1.85 : 1 seems to be quite common and you'll see just little bars, hardly noticeable if you have overscan. 2:35 : 1 is very common for newer Hollywood movies and the black bars will definitely be noticeable. Anything over 2:35 : 1 is very noticeable and if it's also pillarboxed(such as on TCM SD) it will look downright silly with a postage stamp size image in the middle of your screen. In this case you could zoom the image but of course as you know that drastically reduces the picture quality.

greaser

05-20-12, 09:10 PM

^^^You sure know yer stuff jjeff!:p This afternoon i saw The Spirit Of St.Louis on TCM. Your description of the 2.35:1 AR is spot on.TCM-SD showed the "silly postage stamp" image,whlie TCM-HD showed bars top/bottom,but that was all.

I've seen this before and have always chosen the HD feed cuz "zooming" isn't for me,for the reason you noted.

kjbawc

05-20-12, 09:14 PM

OK kjbawk,this is what i see watching The Seven Year Itch(LB version) on TCM.
TCM-HD shows bars on top/bottom on the unconverted HD feed thru the Component input on my tv w/wide mode(on tv) set on "full".The converted video thru my Maggie, the pic.is the same(bars top/bottom)w/the same "full" setting on my tv.

TCM-SD shows a windowboxed image(bars all around)on the unconverted Component input on my tv w/the wide mode set to "full",and the converted video thru the Mag.shows the same image w/the wide mode set to "full".
Changing the tv's "wide mode" settings to any other setting(normal,zoom,wide zoom) gives bad results(tall skinny,wide fat) thru both the unconverted and converted video streams on both TCM-HD AND SD feeds.

I definitely like the HD feed better.:)

That all sounds normal. I would just point out, again, that if TCM is showing a 4x3 film, you are better off recording it from TCM SD, because it will fill the screen top to bottom, with out zooming. Also, it will be displayed properly with your TV set to '4x3,' instead of "wide mode," so you are using more of the DVD's pixels to capture the image, than if you recorded a 4x3 film from TCMHD.

CLEARTOLAND:
Ace Hardware has a good variety of stick-on rubber feet. I often use them for AV applications. Some you can even stack up, to create more clearance between equipment.

Cyclone82

05-21-12, 03:36 AM

Audio Authority (no longer made,) and Atlona (pretty much identical.) A week or so back, I list all of my converters, and discuss their performance

Ok i just got the impression you had something even higher than those.

Seeker47

05-21-12, 12:40 PM

I'm watching The Diary Of Anne Frank, 4x3 LB version on TCM HD right now, and the converter has no problem locking onto the LB version so long as i first feed it a WS image from Fox News HD.

Until seeing the mention fairly recently in this thread, I did not even realize that there was an HD version of TCM. (One of my few remaining "must have" channels, ever since IFC and Fox Movie Channel went completely to s***, following the terrible example set by AMC a couple years back.). DirecTV seems to only offer TCM in SD. But I'm glad to hear that an HD version does now exist.

PS:These 'quirks'in the converter that some may look upon as 'flaws',are actually caused by an intentionally"built in feature" that Atlona added for professional techs.who work with large commercial TV/video equipment installs.These converters are made PRIMARILY for commercial use,not for home use,but may be used that way(home use).At least that is the thumbnail sketch given me for their use from an Atlona CSR.:confused:

I find this a serious design oversight. How much trouble would it have been for them to include a settable default for that "feature." I mean, even the Sima GO pieces (which weren't much good, in my experience) had some buttons for changing settings. And they were not pro gear, nor were they selling at that price point.

greaser

05-21-12, 01:15 PM

I find this a serious design oversight. How much trouble would it have been for them to include a settable default for that "feature." I mean, even the Sima GO pieces (which weren't much good, in my experience) had some buttons for changing settings. And they were not pro gear, nor were they selling at that price point.

I don't exactly 'like it',but hey,what am i gonna do,get rid of it???
After looking at who knows how many converters(a lot,that's for sure)i found this one to be the best i could find at an AFFORDABLE price point($212.00 inc.shipping 'new in box').It has very good PQ,and it sure beats the pants off the Lenkeng i used to own.If you can find a better converter at around the same price point,then you should buy it.I know this converters' quirk,have a simple work-around,and i'm satisfied with it.:)
I don't think there was any "design oversight"per se,you must consider that the converter was designed "primarily'' for commercial use,not home use,though it can be used that way.Since i have never designed nor built a converter it's impossible for me to fathom exactly what was in their minds when they designed and built it.I only have the thumbnail explanation for its use given me by an Atlona CSR.The Simas' you mention(i have one too)which WERE designed for home use i agree, doesn't do its job very well.But the Atlona does do its job well,even with its 'quirk'. I do have a "pet theory"about why this converter was designed the way it was,don't know how much water it holds but,it *could be* that it was designed when 4x3 tv's were still the norm???When 16x9 tv's were still new,or even before 16x9 tv's. That could account for why it stretches images to go full screen,and why the instructions say to first feed it a a full screen image before feeding it any other AR.

Dish has been carrying TCM-HD since it's inception.Unfortunately TCM has still not shown,after 3 yrs. in existence, any movies in ''true'' HD,relying instead on upconversion,but some of the movies they show look soooo good that it's near impossible to tell the diff.Still it would be nice if they would live up to their name of TCM-"HD".