BD-UP5000 Universal Player from Samsung [pre release] [Text View] - Page 2

FireCloud9

06-06-07, 03:04 PM

Thanks MauneyM, Big J.

$600 bucks.... pricey for someone that owns absolutely no HD DVDs and just wants to play the existing DVDs....

The Toshiba HD-A2 HD-DVD Player is $250.... I can live without the 1080p specially since I'm sitting 13' away from our LN-T5265F...

EDIT: And I just saw this one... Toshiba HD-A20 1080p HD DVD Player @ $400. Still a bit of dough for something that might become throw away by Christmas...

Anyone have the Toshiba unit and can comment on it or other recommendations? Comments? Suggestions?

Or to put another way, if you had to buy a DVD player now, but wanted to sit out the HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray and were looking to spend $200 or so for something that can play a small library of older DVDs on the new Samsung LCD we bought, what's the best one can do?

Oppo player? Samsung? Those seem fairly well rated in c-net.

I can wait several years for prices to come down on the high end players. No rush here.

Just looking for something better than the old zenith DVD/VCR combo player that we were using with the old TV. It's very grainy on the new LCD.

HPforMe

06-07-07, 12:15 PM

Big J

06-07-07, 12:20 PM

Rusty James

06-07-07, 12:48 PM

FireCloud9

06-07-07, 05:37 PM

What is being lost spending $250 (I'm sure you can get even better prices online) + movies thrown in by Tosh? You have HD DVD and a very good upconverting sd player. You can wait and wait and wait and never come to a decision based on tomorrow or you can enjoy what now exists for a reasonable cost. Dual players will not be cheap for the forseeable future. Don't expect blu only players to come close to that price for some time.

To answer your question... about $200.

This $50 solution will work just fine for our current needs/application.
Sony player (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11201890&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC|79|2341|2593&N=4001380&Mo=6&pos=4&No=6&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=2593&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&ec=BC-EC10605-Cat2341&topnav=)

As you can probably tell, I'm no videophile or early adopter of technology, and have plenty of time for the technology to reach my price point. By then, HD movie DVDs may be reasonably priced.

I may yet 'splurge' on the Philips 1080p DVD player w/HDMI cable ($65). ;)

ManilaByNight

06-08-07, 03:06 AM

Hmmm .... I wonder if this duo player is backward compatible with regular DVD disks just like the earlier model that Samsung put out (BD-P1000) before.

JimP

06-08-07, 03:33 AM

Thanks MauneyM, Big J.

.... I can live without the 1080p specially since I'm sitting 13' away from our LN-T5265F...

Or to put another way, if you had to buy a DVD player now, but wanted to sit out the HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray and were looking to spend $200 or so for something that can play a small library of older DVDs on the new Samsung LCD we bought, what's the best one can do?

Just looking for something better than the old zenith DVD/VCR combo player that we were using with the old TV. It's very grainy on the new LCD.

You'll probably find that the cheaper DVD players aren't going to be much better than the old Zenith player when displayed on a 52" 1080p LCD HDTV.

In any event, be sure you get a good return policy on whatever player you get. :)

FireCloud9

06-08-07, 12:37 PM

What is being lost spending $250 (I'm sure you can get even better prices online) + movies thrown in by Tosh? You have HD DVD and a very good upconverting sd player. You can wait and wait and wait and never come to a decision based on tomorrow or you can enjoy what now exists for a reasonable cost. Dual players will not be cheap for the forseeable future. Don't expect blu only players to come close to that price for some time.

For those still shopping for this unit. It's now $300. Amazon raised the price from the previous $250 see here (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000IJV4BC/sr******pd_cp_e_1/102-6067294-4079340?ie=UTF8&qid=1181155945&sr=8-1&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_r=0H3SRDXHKG5EP4VA5MJX&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=250314601&pf_rd_i=B000M6XKEK)

FireCloud9

06-08-07, 12:41 PM

You'll probably find that the cheaper DVD players aren't going to be much better than the old Zenith player when displayed on a 52" 1080p LCD HDTV.

In any event, be sure you get a good return policy on whatever player you get. :)

That's why Costco is king! :)

Best Buy has a 30d policy.

I would be very surprised if the DVD player technology that's been developed over the last 5yrs doesn't beat last century's technology, but I guess we'll see soon enough.

chimchim

06-08-07, 12:46 PM

^^ Costco still has it for $249 plus tax...just an FYI

FireCloud9

06-08-07, 02:00 PM

You'll probably find that the cheaper DVD players aren't going to be much better than the old Zenith player when displayed on a 52" 1080p LCD HDTV.

In any event, be sure you get a good return policy on whatever player you get. :)

My sincerest Thanks to you JimP!

Your comment made me question the settings on my ancient Zenith VCR/DVD. I went back to check on the settings and sure enough. Whenever I unplugged it, the settings would change from component 1 to something else.

I never gave it a second thought as I had it hooked up on component 1 on the old TV!

This was also true with the Conia which I had hooked up via component as well on the old set.

I'm going to try that Phillips DVP5982 1080p upscaler ($65 at Costco) just to see if there is any significant improvement, but otherwise we're set to ride out the HD-DVD / Blu-ray war.... Thanks!

FireCloud9

06-08-07, 02:04 PM

^^ Costco still has it for $249 plus tax...just an FYI

Thanks for the info. I'll have to check that out. Must be only in the stores, didn't see the A2 online at Costco just the A20 at $430 (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11216505&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC|79|2341|2593&N=4001380&Mo=6&pos=4&No=0&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=2593&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&ec=BC-EC10605-Cat2341&topnav=)

ckelly33

06-09-07, 11:59 PM

Has there been a solid release date for this Dual-Player unit yet? I've heard July and December.

jwv651

06-10-07, 12:08 AM

Thanks for the info. I'll have to check that out. Must be only in the stores, didn't see the A2 online at Costco just the A20 at $430 (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11216505&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC|79|2341|2593&N=4001380&Mo=6&pos=4&No=0&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=2593&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&ec=BC-EC10605-Cat2341&topnav=)I love my A2 for SD DVD playback and HD DVD for under $300 this player rocks. ;) Plus you get free movies to boot! :D

ckelly33

06-12-07, 07:49 PM

Has there been a solid release date for this Dual-Player unit yet? I've heard July and December.

bump...
Any news on this player since its original announcement? July :o ? December :( ? I'm trying to withstand the purchase of an XA2 & a BR player. The XA2 is very reasonably priced but I'm willing to give a little on specs in order to pile both players into one box. Hopefully I won't have to give up too much...

Hey Samsung! Don't chinz on the components...I'll pay more for the Reon!! Without the Reon, I'll still need an upconverter, with the Reon the Samsung will be a true all-in-one! (fingers crossed for the Reon).

Scoob

06-14-07, 12:49 AM

http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/home_av/ontheradar/0,39050990,62019677,00.htm It says in the article "This is a full-featured universal disc player that plays back both Blu-ray and HD-DVD formats and their interactive technologies"

tausifs

06-17-07, 01:34 PM

An UK magazine publication claimed an August release date for the US spec player, Xmas for the UK spec. They didn't state where they got their info from .

ckelly33

06-17-07, 04:14 PM

An UK magazine publication claimed an August release date for the US spec player, Xmas for the UK spec. They didn't state where they got their info from .

What publicatin? Link? Did it mentions the Reon by any chance (fingers crossed)?

jlanzy

06-18-07, 04:04 PM

bump...
Any news on this player since its original announcement? July :o ? December :( ? I'm trying to withstand the purchase of an XA2 & a BR player. The XA2 is very reasonably priced but I'm willing to give a little on specs in order to pile both players into one box. Hopefully I won't have to give up too much...

Hey Samsung! Don't chinz on the components...I'll pay more for the Reon!! Without the Reon, I'll still need an upconverter, with the Reon the Samsung will be a true all-in-one! (fingers crossed for the Reon).

I'm in the same boat, don't want 2 players, but want movies on both formats. I don't care about interactivity or even processing, will have a Radiance for that, I do care about 1080p/24 for hi def discs and True HD 7.1 and at least DTS HD, MA would be nice but not essential. I have a feeling this won't happen until at least December or later, anybody have a patience pill??

sunnysky

06-21-07, 07:42 AM

It kind of scares me that it's been so long since Samsung has release any actual information about this.
For all we know, they may have given up on the project. That would be Devastating news to me, as I want both formats, but refuse to buy a PS3. I want a Dual player only.
If I can get this player, I will just use my 360 add-on, with pc.
Has there been anything legit about this lately? release date, cost, functionality, etc?

JimP

06-21-07, 07:49 AM

Since the final BluRay specs won't be released until later this year, is it possible that they're delaying production in order to include those specs? Personally, I wouldn't buy a $1K player that doesn't.

sunnysky

06-21-07, 03:04 PM

This does make sence. From what I've been reading, it sounds like a lot of company's have been holding out until October when the Java PIP capabilities are available (mgm, fox, samsung). Which is smart. If I'm going to be paying $1,000, that player BETTER have full funtionality with BOTH formats.

tausifs

06-24-07, 01:44 PM

What publicatin? Link? Did it mentions the Reon by any chance (fingers crossed)?

What Home Cinema, p13. No weblink, no it did not.

seanraf

06-24-07, 06:20 PM

http://blog.homecinemachoice.com/page/homecinemachoice?entry=samsung_goes_for_duo_hd

Found this link.

The article states that the Duo player will cost about $1000 at launch and will fully support BD-Java and HDi. In addition to BD-J and HDi, the unit's ethernet port will be used for firmware updates and BD-Live content. The unit will sport an HDMI 1.3 port capable of streaming the advanced audio codecs, like Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD. On the video side of things, the Duo player will be using Faroudja DCDi processing for the upscaling and 24p will be an option for Blu-Ray only.

jkustes

06-24-07, 07:07 PM

sounds like a winner to me.

dildatonr

06-24-07, 08:09 PM

hell yeah.

I can finally scrap my ps3! ugly hunk of non game having crap.

Rutgar

06-24-07, 08:15 PM

hell yeah.

I can finally scrap my ps3! ugly hunk of non game having crap.

And to think just a few short months ago, people stood in line for days to get one of those.

dildatonr

06-24-07, 08:25 PM

I might buy one again in a few years when their a couple hundred bucks cheaper and have games that are worth playing. (of course then it will actually annoy me I'm being forced to buy a BR player instead of buying it to have a BR player, I think Microsoft wins that debate>)

But as far as HT equipment. Sony next time, make it LOOK like HT equpment if you want me to use at as such. Kinda reminds me of those Simpsons box sets that are plastic hunks of crap shaped like the characters head. It looks neat for about 5 minutes - and then it just becomes an out of place eye sore amongst all the other DVD's..

ckelly33

06-24-07, 11:53 PM

For $1000 it should've included the Reon by HQV. Hopefully 1080p/24 is just an upgrade away for HD-DVD as well.

PLease Samsung, go REON

millerwill

06-25-07, 12:00 AM

For $1000 it should've included the Reon by HQV. Hopefully 1080p/24 is just an upgrade away for HD-DVD as well.

PLease Samsung, go REON

It sounds like the 5000 will have the same BD performance as the 1200, not quite as good sd upconversion as the 1200, but the full complement of new audio and other 'features', as well as HD DVD of course. It was stated at the beginning of the thread that the Reon chip was not be used as an 'economy measure'.

ckelly33

06-25-07, 12:01 AM

JimP

06-25-07, 03:45 AM

It sounds like the 5000 will have the same BD performance as the 1200, not quite as good sd upconversion as the 1200, but the full complement of new audio and other 'features', as well as HD DVD of course. It was stated at the beginning of the thread that the Reon chip was not be used as an 'economy measure'.

I find it incredible that Samsung went to the effort to come up with a player that'll replace two players and missed the opportunity to replace a third. What were they thinking. Anyone here not willing to spend an extra $100 for the Reon processor?

mattmarsden

06-25-07, 04:30 AM

Very disappointed by no 24P on HD-DVD. The LG can do this, if only the LG upgraded its audio decoding on HDMI it would be a winner for me.

joerod

06-25-07, 08:22 AM

I am shocked to. You would think they would have thought of everything...

Mogur2

06-25-07, 08:49 AM

Hi,
I am new to this thread. What is Reon. I do have a Sharp 52" LCD TV and am curious about a combo HD/BlueRay DVD player.

Thanks,

seanraf

06-25-07, 10:49 AM

Hi,
I am new to this thread. What is Reon. I do have a Sharp 52" LCD TV and am curious about a combo HD/BlueRay DVD player.

Thanks,

The HQV Reon chip (http://www.hqv.com) is a video processing chip. Basically, it de-interlaces and scales everything up to 1080p. Recently, the Reon chip has found its way into many consumer-grade products, such as next-gen optical players and some TVs, because this chip does a very good job at scaling SD content to 1080p as well as being second to none in 1080i to 1080p de-interlacing, a procedure that if not done properly could result in less-than desirable results. The Reon is popular because it is not only a stellar performer but it is relatively inexpensive to manufacturers.

Even cheaper than the HQV Reon chip is the Faroudja DCDi chip (which Samsung decided to go with for cost concerns). Faroudja DCDi was originally designed as a de-interlacer for 480i to 480p and was very good at that. The chip was used in older high-end DVD players to provide the progressive scan 480p image. Once the HD era was ushered in, Faroudja needed to develop a HD scaling chip to remain competitive. Instead of creating an entirely new architecture, Faroudja decided to adapt their standard-def algorithms to high-definition signals. This method still does its job, but loses ground performance-wise to chips designed from the ground up to handle high-definition signals, such as the HQV or Gennum chips.

Personally, I really am indifferent as to which chip they use, especially when it comes to regular DVD content. We've all seen how good the Faroudja chip can be at DVD scaling in the Oppo and Denon players. Granted that the Reon would be a bit better, but if Samsung implements the Faroudja chip properly, there shouldn't be a visible difference between the two when sitting at a normal seating distance. Where there could be a big difference between the two chips is on Blu-Ray and HD-DVD content where 24p pass-through isn't an option. When you are not passing the 24p content through the player, the content on the disc is output from the decoder at 1080i and de-interlaced to 1080p by the player (if 1080p is selected as the output resolution). The benefit of the Reon chip is the superb 1080i-1080p de-interlacing and hence why it is gaining popularity in next-gen optical players and is also where the Faroudja chip loses ground to newer video processors. If Samsung implements the Faroudja chip properly, this shouldn't be too big of a problem at normal viewing distances, but video purists with outboard video processors should probably set the output on this player to 1080i and let the outboard processor do the rest.

In terms the extra cost involved with implementing the Reon, while this doesn't matter to us on AVS Forum, it matters to the average Joe who just walked into Best Buy and is looking for a Blu-Ray and HD-DVD player to complement his new HDTV. While we're willing to pay the extra $100 for better video processing, why would he when he can get a BDP-S300 and a HD-A20 for less than $1000 today. Granted, none of those players can match the feature set that this player has said to have, but that doesn't matter to him, because all he needs is a way to play his favorite movies in high-def. That's why I believe Samsung made the attempt to keep the price on the player as low as they could.

millerwill

06-25-07, 11:26 AM

Excellent post, seanraf.

JimP

06-25-07, 11:32 AM

In terms the extra cost involved with implementing the Reon, while this doesn't matter to us on AVS Forum, it matters to the average Joe who just walked into Best Buy and is looking for a Blu-Ray and HD-DVD player to complement his new HDTV. While we're willing to pay the extra $100 for better video processing, why would he when he can get a BDP-S300 and a HD-A20 for less than $1000 today. Granted, none of those players can match the feature set that this player has said to have, but that doesn't matter to him, because all he needs is a way to play his favorite movies in high-def. That's why I believe Samsung made the attempt to keep the price on the player as low as they could.

I think including an upscale processor on a $1000 player makes sense where it doesn't on a $300 player.

ckelly33

06-25-07, 11:39 AM

Very disappointed by no 24P on HD-DVD. The LG can do this, if only the LG upgraded its audio decoding on HDMI it would be a winner for me.

Whether it's true or not I don't know but some have suggested that the LG can more readily do 1080p/24 because it cannot do HDi. Somehow, according to the post, HDi somehow makes it more difficult to do 1080p/24 and that is apparently why we haven't seen 1080p/24 yet on HDi compliant models.

And YES! I would pay $100 more for the Reon. I'm ready to have EVERYTHING in one box.

MauneyM

06-25-07, 12:23 PM

Whether it's true or not I don't know but some have suggested that the LG can more readily do 1080p/24 because it cannot do HDi. Somehow, according to the post, HDi somehow makes it more difficult to do 1080p/24 and that is apparently why we haven't seen 1080p/24 yet on HDi compliant models.

It would seem that the HDi would require the player to do an on-the-fly realtime combination (overlay) of different resolution video streams. If the overlaid (interactive) video is at 480i/60, then it has to be upsampled as well as being converted to 24 fps, then combined with the 1080p/24 stream from the main feature.

Doing all of this in real time within the available processing hardware (on top of the 'normal' processing overhead) would seem to be a non-trivial exercise.

It doesn't surprise me that Toshiba hasn't been able to crank out this upgrade rapidly. Given that we're only now beginning to see displays that can really make use of 1080p/24 sources, I don't find it objectionable that they didn't put this in the early products. Even among AVSers, most of us apparently don't yet have the display hardware necessary for 1080p/24 to be an issue.

That said, I'll be glad to try this out with the RS-1 when the upgrade for the XA2 comes along.....

seanraf

06-25-07, 02:20 PM

I think including an upscale processor on a $1000 player makes sense where it doesn't on a $300 player.

I don't believe you are really comparing apples to apples in this case. The Oppo and Denon are DVD players and only DVD players. These units use hardware that have been on production lines for years and have relatively low fabrication costs. The Duo player on the other hand that have just hit production lines in the past few years. If you've read the article that I posted earlier, the disc drive on the Duo does not have one blue laser diode capable of reading all disc formats. Instead, it is a carousel of diodes with a blue diode for Blu-ray, a blue diode for HD-DVD, and a red diode for DVD/CD. This alone sky-rockets production costs. My comparison of the Oppo and Denon was strictly based on video quality and not price.

I would like to assert that I am not saying a Reon in this player wouldn't be nice, I'm just trying to justify Samsung's decision and assure that the lack of a Reon isn't the catastrophe to some possible consumers that people are making out to be.

noah katz

06-25-07, 02:26 PM

millerwill

06-25-07, 02:31 PM

"Anyone here not willing to spend an extra $100 for the Reon processor?"

I would, and I won't buy a combo player w/o similar upconversion to my XA2.

"Granted that the Reon would be a bit better, but if Samsung implements the Faroudja chip properly, there shouldn't be a visible difference between the two when sitting at a normal seating distance."

Perhaps if resolution is the criterion, but the Reon does more than just upscale.

And one should note that 'normal seating distance' is typically much closer (in screen widths) for persons using a projector compared to those with a hdtv, so for the former users the resolution/PQ factor is much more imp (at least IMHO).

seanraf

06-25-07, 02:43 PM

"Anyone here not willing to spend an extra $100 for the Reon processor?"

I would, and I won't buy a combo player w/o similar upconversion to my XA2.

"Granted that the Reon would be a bit better, but if Samsung implements the Faroudja chip properly, there shouldn't be a visible difference between the two when sitting at a normal seating distance."

Perhaps if resolution is the criterion, but the Reon does more than just upscale.

I was saying that everyone on AVS forum posting in this thread would like to see a Reon in this player, but the average Joe who walks into Best Buy would be indifferent as too which chip the player uses and if properly implemented the Faroudja would yeild similar results to a Reon on a HDTV, front projector systems notwithstanding.

JimP

06-25-07, 03:24 PM

My point is that average Joe isn't going to buy a $1,000 player.

At this price point, I'd expect the better processor.

Mogur2

06-25-07, 03:24 PM

Wow,
Thanks for the detailed description. FWIW I recently won a Toshiba DVD player that has can upconvert to 1080i. I think I see somewhat better images on my Sharp 52"LCD compared to a 4 year old Denon. With my current budget (I am a retired teacher) I can wait until a combo DVD player under $400 appears.

Thanks again for the information.

Lou :)

[QUOTE=seanraf]The HQV Reon chip (http://www.hqv.com) is a video processing chip. Basically, it de-interlaces and scales everything up to 1080p. Recently, the Reon chip has found its way into many consumer-grade products, such as next-gen optical players and some TVs, because this chip does a very good job at scaling SD content to 1080p as well as being second to none in 1080i to 1080p de-interlacing, a procedure that if not done properly could result in less-than desirable results. The Reon is popular because it is not only a stellar performer but it is relatively inexpensive to manufacturers.

Intentionally clipped

seanraf

06-25-07, 03:39 PM

My point is that average Joe isn't going to buy a $1,000 player.

At this price point, I'd expect the better processor.

Thanks for clarifying, I wasn't quite sure whether that was your point or not. I thought maybe you misunderstood what I said.

tausifs

06-25-07, 04:51 PM

I'll be really disappointed if it doesn't do DTS-HD Master Audio. The lack of 1080p for HDDVD I could live with.

Tim Sly

06-25-07, 06:39 PM

dildatonr

06-25-07, 06:56 PM

I plan on purchasing the onkyo 875 (maybe even the 905) within the next monthish. It has the Reon, so for me what chip this player has is a moot point.

cnickersonjr

06-25-07, 10:14 PM

emptychair

06-25-07, 10:34 PM

Now we have to find some new AV receivers that can decode the new HD audio over HDMI. Seen any?

The new Onkyo and Denon and Pioneer Elite(?) models can. Remember though, you will need both the movie disc and the player to be capable of sending bitstream.

seanraf

06-27-07, 01:08 PM

What I think is most shocking about the article is that the Samsung rep mentions the Duo player as a part of a 2-player strategy for next-gen optical for Samsung, and specifically mentions the BD-P1200 as the standalone Blu-ray player. This, however, makes no sense to me as the Duo player is a more feature-rich Blu-ray playback device than the BD-P1200 in that it has BD-Live support and the ability to pass lossless audio streams over HDMI 1.3. Does this possibly indicate a Panasonic-type strategy where the BD-P1200 will receive firmware update with these new features and Samsung will release the oft rumored BD-P1400 separately with a firmware with these features pre-installed?

millerwill

06-27-07, 01:14 PM

With the recent price drop in the 1200 (to 499), I think the more likely scenario is that the 1200 will NOT get these upgrades, and that the 1400 will come out with them. (That way you have to buy a new player if you want them!)

joerod

06-27-07, 07:33 PM

I did not realize the 499 price drop hit... That's very interesting...

ckelly33

06-27-07, 10:04 PM

Amazon still has the 1200 for $575. Where is it $499??

millerwill

06-27-07, 11:04 PM

JR, via Amazon.

ckelly33

06-27-07, 11:31 PM

JR, via Amazon.
sweet. thx

cnickersonjr

06-28-07, 12:46 AM

seanraf

06-28-07, 10:20 AM

"The BD-UP5000 will also offer the ability to output 1080p at 24frames per second (on Blu-ray only) – in short, the features requested by critics of the its first-gen Blu-ray-only BD-P1000 and a few more besides."

So this isn't possible with HD-DVD? They both are mastered at 1080p/24 right?

The majority of commercially released HD-DVD and Blu-ray films are master at 1080p24. However, no standalone HD-DVD player supports the 24p pass-through straight off the disc as of yet, despite the process being entirely feasible to do so. Because of this, Samsung will not be implementing 24p pass-through with HD-DVD discs off of the Duo player.

Part of me wants to believe that this explanation is just a cop out and is one little way Samsung is giving Blu-ray the upper hand. Another part of me thinks that this feature should have been implemented with no excuses because the Duo's main competition, the LG combo unit, HAS 24p pass-through for HD-DVD dics. Oh well, maybe with a firmware update :).

sunnysky

06-28-07, 12:02 PM

seanraf

06-28-07, 12:29 PM

so why would LG do it, and not Samsung. Especially after everything else LG left out for HD-DVD. Like the ability to play "in movie experience"?
I've also read that LG only sends TrudHD out in stereo (for HD-DVD). Is that right? I guess I need to read up on LG to see if it's worth looking at.
I've just assumed that the Samsung would be much more worth having. If for no other reason than the fact it's had so much more time to perfect both formats (compared to LG).

The LG has it because the feature was added in a firmware update. My guess is that the way the player was designed from a hardware standpoint, enabling 24p pass-through for Blu-ray forced the same to happen to the HD-DVD side of things. I don't know much about the LG and what I do know was learned through the internet.

Traelin

06-29-07, 02:12 PM

The HQV Reon chip (http://www.hqv.com) is a video processing chip. Basically, it de-interlaces and scales everything up to 1080p. Recently, the Reon chip has found its way into many consumer-grade products, such as next-gen optical players and some TVs, because this chip does a very good job at scaling SD content to 1080p as well as being second to none in 1080i to 1080p de-interlacing, a procedure that if not done properly could result in less-than desirable results. The Reon is popular because it is not only a stellar performer but it is relatively inexpensive to manufacturers.

Even cheaper than the HQV Reon chip is the Faroudja DCDi chip (which Samsung decided to go with for cost concerns). Faroudja DCDi was originally designed as a de-interlacer for 480i to 480p and was very good at that. The chip was used in older high-end DVD players to provide the progressive scan 480p image. Once the HD era was ushered in, Faroudja needed to develop a HD scaling chip to remain competitive. Instead of creating an entirely new architecture, Faroudja decided to adapt their standard-def algorithms to high-definition signals. This method still does its job, but loses ground performance-wise to chips designed from the ground up to handle high-definition signals, such as the HQV or Gennum chips.

Personally, I really am indifferent as to which chip they use, especially when it comes to regular DVD content. We've all seen how good the Faroudja chip can be at DVD scaling in the Oppo and Denon players. Granted that the Reon would be a bit better, but if Samsung implements the Faroudja chip properly, there shouldn't be a visible difference between the two when sitting at a normal seating distance. Where there could be a big difference between the two chips is on Blu-Ray and HD-DVD content where 24p pass-through isn't an option. When you are not passing the 24p content through the player, the content on the disc is output from the decoder at 1080i and de-interlaced to 1080p by the player (if 1080p is selected as the output resolution). The benefit of the Reon chip is the superb 1080i-1080p de-interlacing and hence why it is gaining popularity in next-gen optical players and is also where the Faroudja chip loses ground to newer video processors. If Samsung implements the Faroudja chip properly, this shouldn't be too big of a problem at normal viewing distances, but video purists with outboard video processors should probably set the output on this player to 1080i and let the outboard processor do the rest.

In terms the extra cost involved with implementing the Reon, while this doesn't matter to us on AVS Forum, it matters to the average Joe who just walked into Best Buy and is looking for a Blu-Ray and HD-DVD player to complement his new HDTV. While we're willing to pay the extra $100 for better video processing, why would he when he can get a BDP-S300 and a HD-A20 for less than $1000 today. Granted, none of those players can match the feature set that this player has said to have, but that doesn't matter to him, because all he needs is a way to play his favorite movies in high-def. That's why I believe Samsung made the attempt to keep the price on the player as low as they could.

Wow man, thanks for taking the time to explain all this in great detail and with great grammar. I learned quite a bit.

deez

06-29-07, 03:20 PM

What is important to not is what you really want is 1080p/24...if this player only does 1080i with hd dvd then I will wait for a different universal player that does both at 1080p/24.

sunnysky

06-29-07, 08:38 PM

Toshiba has just made an announcement that explains "through firmware updates", the 24P will be available this year (for the 399 and 799 units).
If Toshiba can do it, I imagine Samsung can do it as well, with firmware updates.

seanraf

06-29-07, 09:37 PM

What is important to not is what you really want is 1080p/24...if this player only does 1080i with hd dvd then I will wait for a different universal player that does both at 1080p/24.

This player can do 1080p with HD-DVD. What I was saying was is that the stream coming off the decoder chip on all Blu-ray and HD-DVD players is a 1080i stream unless it is passing through the 1080p24 signal. The player then de-interlaces the 1080i stream to 1080p. The chip for de-interlacing used in the Duo player is the Faroudja chip, which isn't necessarily as good as other de-interlacing methods in other players. For purists who want to bypass the Faroudja processing in this player on everything except for DVD playback, I recommended that they use an external video processor and set the output to 1080i. If that is not an option, the Faroujda chip will de-interlace the 1080i stream from Blu-ray or HD-DVD discs unless 1080p24 is selected.

deez

06-29-07, 10:34 PM

This player can do 1080p with HD-DVD. What I was saying was is that the stream coming off the decoder chip on all Blu-ray and HD-DVD players is a 1080i stream unless it is passing through the 1080p24 signal. The player then de-interlaces the 1080i stream to 1080p. The chip for de-interlacing used in the Duo player is the Faroudja chip, which isn't necessarily as good as other de-interlacing methods in other players. For purists who want to bypass the Faroudja processing in this player on everything except for DVD playback, I recommended that they use an external video processor and set the output to 1080i. If that is not an option, the Faroujda chip will de-interlace the 1080i stream from Blu-ray or HD-DVD discs unless 1080p24 is selected.

What I meant was 1080 24 is what is important. All of the media is encoded at 1080p though so I want a player that passes that natively to my display with no deinterlacing. :)

Traelin

06-29-07, 10:34 PM

What is important to not is what you really want is 1080p/24...if this player only does 1080i with hd dvd then I will wait for a different universal player that does both at 1080p/24.

I really wish I understood the nuances of 1080p/24. I'm blindly trusting you guys on something if I go and purchase the Bravia 46" LCD in July. I'd like to understand a little bit more what it is...

deez

06-29-07, 10:42 PM

I really wish I understood the nuances of 1080p/24. I'm blindly trusting you guys on something if I go and purchase the Bravia 46" LCD in July. I'd like to understand a little bit more what it is...

It is the rate at which film is shot at. I believe there are only a few tv's that actually will accept and pass/display a 1080p/24 signal. The Pioneer 50" fhd1 Is 1 of those I think. :)

seanraf

06-29-07, 11:30 PM

Sorry Deez.

Anyway, a little about 24p.

Most films are shot at 24Hz. Therefore, when a movie studio transfers their master copy to Blu-ray or HD-DVD, it is encoded at a resolution of 1080p with a frame rate of 24Hz. However, most consumer televisions have a native frame rate of 60Hz. This means, that on a usual television, the 24Hz signal would have to be converted to 60Hz before it could be displayed. This creates an image artifact known as judder which results in "unsmooth" camera pans. To help eliminate judder on Blu-ray and HD-DVD discs, manufacturers are giving consumers the option to pass through the 24hz signal instead of having the player convert that signal to 60hz. To achieve the full benefit of 24p pass-through your TV must be able to refresh at a multiple of 24Hz instead or in addition to being able to refresh at 60Hz, or else tour TV will do the 24Hz to 60Hz conversion internally, thus defeating the purpose of passing through the 24Hz signal in the first place. What manufacturers are starting to do is create displays with native refresh rate 120Hz, which is a multiple of both 60Hz and 24hz. When having a display such as this, your TV's video processor would double the frames per second in a 60Hz signal and quintuple the frames per second in a 24Hz signal.

joerod

06-30-07, 12:26 AM

I just would like to know when this unit will hit? :)

Traelin

06-30-07, 02:02 PM

Traelin

06-30-07, 02:03 PM

I just would like to know when this unit will hit? :)

So would I. This is a must-buy for me.

deez

06-30-07, 06:08 PM

Traelin

06-30-07, 10:09 PM

No problem man.

I meant what you said. :)

Seanraf is correct, there is also the pixel factor which your eye will not be able to discern at certain distances.

For me, 1080p is only a factor on larger displays. I don't see the benefit of a 46 inch 1080p unless you are sitting less than 6 feet away. Judder free on that small of a display is unnecessary to me.

Now , at 100" 1080p/24 is a factor. :)

I don't know what the list is on this set , but for the same amount of money i am sure you could get a larger plasma.

Tell us, what is your seating distance?

Also, Joerod dont you have a pearl?

Seating distance is probably 6-7'? I like the LCDs much much better than plasma, they're just my cup of tea. Plus I'll probably end up hooking my Westy 42" up to my CPU and let it ride once I get a new LCD. Or maybe I'll move it to the BR, I don't know.

It's probably going to be available at $2,500. MSRP will probably be higher.

seanraf

06-30-07, 10:44 PM

Traelin

06-30-07, 11:00 PM

I personally like the microdisplay RPTVs. They provide the best price per performance/size ratio in the industry. Most recent sets that utilize that technology have no hint of pixelation and are pretty bright. I am the proud owner of a Samsung LED DLP HLT-6189s myself. I know for a fact that Sony's new SXRD TVs have a 120Hz refresh rate. Just another option for you people who want true 1080p24 support.

seanrad, not to keep bothering you, but I'm also looking to buy decent speakers and a good receiver. I hate to go OT even more, but I also don't want to start a thread directed to you. I don't want to drop more than 2k between the receiver and speakers (I'm more of a videophile due to my below average hearing). Can you recommend some decent equip in this price range?

seanraf

07-01-07, 12:13 PM

seanrad, not to keep bothering you, but I'm also looking to buy decent speakers and a good receiver. I hate to go OT even more, but I also don't want to start a thread directed to you. I don't want to drop more than 2k between the receiver and speakers (I'm more of a videophile due to my below average hearing). Can you recommend some decent equip in this price range?

We'll continue this conversation in a through PMs, that way were not getting off base from the Duo.

Rich Peterson

07-01-07, 01:28 PM

I just would like to know when this unit will hit? :)

Samsung has a press event in a couple weeks and I'm pretty sure we'll find out just before or during the event. Here is a description:

...the Samsung 2007 Holiday in July Product Showcase!

Taking place on July 11th and 12th in New York City we welcome you to experience the very latest gizmos, gadgets, technology and more from Samsung.

From all-new HDTVs, Blu-ray and mobile phones to monitors, Ultra-Mobile PCs and even home appliances, Samsung is looking to celebrate the Holidays early this year.

dildatonr

07-03-07, 12:36 PM

woah

i should go to that

Flausch

07-04-07, 10:24 AM

Samsung announces BD-UP 5000 for Germany

Releasedate: October/November 2007
Price: "approximatly 400 Euro above the price of an average Bluray-player", whatever this means...

German users: heise.de/newsticker/meldung/92194

Translate with google if you don't speak german... :p

dildatonr

07-04-07, 12:35 PM

So I'm thinking $800-900?

news 04.07.2007 14:43 heise on-line
<<Previous | Next ones>>
Samsung discontinues HD Disc-combination player for German market in announcement read

Korean electronics group Samsung has announced on the arrangement taking place nowadays in Hamburg to the coming international radio exhibit in Berlin (IFA) a player which should be able to play the competing HD Disc formats Blu-ray Disc and DVD HD. The combination model with the name BDP-UP 5000 is with an Ethernet connection ausge

jolaca

07-08-07, 08:21 PM

Rich Peterson

07-11-07, 08:01 PM

Samsung has a press event in a couple weeks and I'm pretty sure we'll find out just before or during the event.
Guess I was wrong. I haven't heard anything about the dual format player (yet anyway).

T2k

07-11-07, 08:38 PM

Don't get your hopes up on the SACD; BD-P1200 doesn't play them. Not sure about the BD-P1000, but I'm guessing not.

Not that too many people will miss it (or, for that matter, DVD-A either)...

strutter

07-23-07, 12:49 PM

any news of expected release date for the US? last i heard was set to be released in October or November for the European Market.
i've got an ISF calibrator coming in october and would love to have this when he gets here.

audiomixer

07-24-07, 07:21 PM

So can this price point be real?

Samsung’s Duo HD Universal Player to Cost €400.
Samsung’s Blu-ray/HD DVD Player Gets the Price

Category: Multimedia

by Anton Shilov

[ 07/10/2007 | 11:11 PM ]

Samsung Electronics at IFA (Internationale Funhausstellung) conference in
Germany revealed that its first hybrid blue laser-based video player will be relatively affordable and will become available in the fourth quarter of the year.

Samsung’s Duo HD BD-UP5000 will be initially available in Europe and will cost approximately €400 ($550), which is considerably below the cost of LG’s BH100 player that also can playback both Blu-ray and HD DVD movies, reports Digi-Times web-site. It is not exactly clear in which countries the novelty will be available and whether its launch will be supported by widespread availability of Blu-ray or HD DVD movies in Europe.

Samsung’s Duo HD player (BD-UP5000) will fully support both Blu-ray and HD DVD formats and their interactive technologies, HDi and BD-Java, something that the currently shipping LG’s universal player lacks. Samsung decided to remain tight-lipped over specifications of the player as well as its peculiarities.

Given that currently in Europe there are not a lot of Blu-ray disk (BD)or HD DVD players available, Samsung Duo HD BD-UP5000 will pose a threat to both, as besides the ability to playback both high-definition video formats it is also relatively affordable.

Meanwhile, Japanese manufacturers like Pioneer, Panasonic or Sony are likely to stick to offering single-format Blu-ray players as dual-format players involve both HD DVD and BD royalties as well as more complicated hardware mechanics, which affect the price. The Japanese companies believe that consumers would rather choose a single-format device, but will not overpay for dual-format player.

Woodshed

07-24-07, 08:05 PM

Kevin C Brown

07-24-07, 08:49 PM

I don't know. It's roughly 4 months away, give or take, and prices are dropping all the time on everything.

Krobar

07-25-07, 03:11 AM

Newjack

07-25-07, 12:24 PM

It was officially announced for $1049 to be released Q4.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/officially-official/samsung-finally-announces-its-bd+up5000-blu+ray-hd-dvd-hybrid-player-282313.php

Blue 911

07-25-07, 12:28 PM

Looks like it's $1049. Article here (http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=201201056).

I read one that said 400 pounds, not Euros, so that might be the source of confusion. But 400 pounds is only about $800 US dollars (?).

fretman

07-25-07, 12:51 PM

$1049.00, rats!. I was hoping it would come in around $600ish. At $1049.00 I will wait a while for a price drop or another Mfg. to release a combo unit. Who knows over the next year how the HD/BD landscape will change.

dildatonr

07-25-07, 12:54 PM

I sure wish there was a less general ETA than Q4 2007. At least tell me which month you bastards!

DavidHir

07-25-07, 01:08 PM

Price too high IMO. Especially by 4th qtr. it will be much cheaper to buy two separate components.

krholmberg

07-25-07, 01:16 PM

Especially when you consider holiday pricing on top the already increasing price drop trend.

dhodory

07-25-07, 01:17 PM

I'm not a buyer at $1,049 but will be interesting to see what the street price ends up being ($950? $900? $850? $800?). I'm probably not a buyer at any of those prices either, but I am glad to see this product released, as the sooner the release, the sooner prices can start dropping. I would be a buyer at around $500-$600, but I suspect that we're probably at least 6 months away from that sort of pricing (and prehaps a 3rd generation dual format player with some costs taken out). As always, "hurry up and wait . . . "

Newjack

07-25-07, 01:19 PM

I was really hoping for a price at about $800. I guess LG's second generation dual format player will be over $1000 as well.

turansformer

07-25-07, 01:23 PM

Remember how the BDP-S300 was originally announced to have an MSRP of $600? Well, Sony must have realized it was a bit too high, so they lowered it to $500 upon release. Let's hope that Samsung realizes the price for this player is more than it would cost to buy two separate players with similar functionality. I'm looking for a price around $800. Any more than that, and I'll be waiting for something else.

Sarcoptic

07-25-07, 01:30 PM

I am curious about which HQV processor is in it, the Realta or Reon

turansformer

07-25-07, 01:32 PM

If anything, it would probably be the Reon. The Realta would demand a much higher price tag.

mike171979

07-25-07, 01:45 PM

audiomixer

07-25-07, 02:02 PM

Of course if the street price for the UP5000 turns out to be $900, then I suppose it isn't that bad of a deal.

And it's only one box...

It will be mine... :D

Timothy Ramzyk

07-25-07, 02:19 PM

Let me get this straight, I can either buy a $399 MSRP HD-A20 and a $499 MSRP BDP-S300 for $898 MSRP Total.

Or I can buy the UP5000 for $1049 MSRP.

I've gotta ask, Does Samsung even look at other prices when pricing their items, or do they just price it at whatever they have to, to turn a profit, sales numbers be damn.

But oh wait, that logic wouldn't work, because they wouldn't sell any. So that leads a rational person in to believing what????? That they will have to lower their price when it is finally actually for sale, thats what.

I'm not even mentioning that the street price for the Sony unit is really $449, and the street price for the HD-A20 is $329.

Of course if the street price for the UP5000 turns out to be $900, then I suppose it isn't that bad of a deal.

I have the best HD DVD player, so as much as I would like to save some space, I'm not going to replace it with this when I could just wait for the prices on other new BD standalone to come down. I really think the should have tried with all their might to bring it in for $800.

davcole

07-25-07, 02:23 PM

ckelly33

07-25-07, 02:32 PM

I'd love to have this one but it's too expensive!! I'm really suprised at the price. I figured it would come in somewhere between $800- $900.

The one advantage of this player over the others would be if it included dts-ma and if it's 1.1 profile for Blu-Ray. That's the only way I can see justifying the premium.

How many levels of BR are there? Will specs constantly antiquate previous releases? Is 1.1 the final version? 2.0? I'm not interested in sinking cash into an unfinished product. But I truly don't have much of an understanding of where this is going to end? Does any one know what Sony is working toward here?

DasRaven

07-25-07, 02:40 PM

I dumped my PS3 and HD-A1 and said I'd get back in when I could buy a dual format player with HQV upscaling. Looks like I'm back in price be damned!

Glad I didn't sell those discs. Anybody want to buy an Oppo 981HD around Black Friday? ;)

dildatonr

07-25-07, 02:59 PM

Let me get this straight, I can either buy a $399 MSRP HD-A20 and a $499 MSRP BDP-S300 for $898 MSRP Total.

Or I can buy the UP5000 for $1049 MSRP.

I've gotta ask, Does Samsung even look at other prices when pricing their items, or do they just price it at whatever they have to, to turn a profit, sales numbers be damn.

But oh wait, that logic wouldn't work, because they wouldn't sell any. So that leads a rational person in to believing what????? That they will have to lower their price when it is finally actually for sale, thats what.

I'm not even mentioning that the street price for the Sony unit is really $449, and the street price for the HD-A20 is $329.

Of course if the street price for the UP5000 turns out to be $900, then I suppose it isn't that bad of a deal.

It would be a mistake to compare this with either player you mentioned. From the specs you should compare it to the xa2 and the sammy 1200. Throw in a dash of more future proofing and the ability to have it in one box and it's actually right on target for price. It would be sweet to see it cheaper - but it's not a "zany" or "crazy" price. It will end up retailing lower than the MSRP - and I wouldn't be shocked to see the MSRP come down a bit before it's launch. If this thing can come out by october I will buy one without a second thought.

Lee Stewart

07-25-07, 04:16 PM

How many levels of BR are there? Will specs constantly antiquate previous releases? Is 1.1 the final version? 2.0? I'm not interested in sinking cash into an unfinished product. But I truly don't have much of an understanding of where this is going to end? Does any one know what Sony is working toward here?

From Wiki . . BluRay:

Profiles
The BD-ROM specification defines four profiles of Blu-ray players. All video-based profiles are required to have a full implementation of BD-J.

1.0
This is the basic profile that all current Blu-ray players (as of April 2007) are based on. Players based on this profile are only required to have 64 KB of application data area storage, which is typically used for bookmarks and other preference storage.[citation needed] Most players have more than the minimum required 64 KB.[citation needed] After October 31, 2007, this profile will be superseded by profile 1.1 as the new minimum profile.

1.1 (mandatory November 2007)
What is typically referred to as "Profile 1.1" (but is more formally known as "Final Standard Profile") adds a secondary video decoder (typically used for picture in picture), secondary audio (typically used for interactive audio and commentary) and capability of supporting a minimum of 256 MB of local storage (for storing audio/video and title updates). Compliance with this profile will be mandatory for player models introduced to the market after October 31, 2007,[1] but existing products will be unaffected. As of July 24, 2007, only the Denon DVD-3800BDCI and DVD-2500BTCI have been announced as supporting this feature.[2]

Some profile 1.0 players may be upgradeable via firmware update to profile 1.1 if they have the appropriate hardware, but no manufacturer has announced any such upgrade. When software authored with interactive features dependent on Profile 1.1 hardware capabilities are played on profile 1.0 players some features may not be available or may offer limited capability. Profile 1.0 players will still be able to play the main feature of the disc, however.

2.0 (BD-Live)
Profile 2, also known as BD-Live, adds network connectivity to the list of mandatory functions and increases mandatory local storage capability to 1 GB. No players have been announced as compatible with this profile. Players of earlier profiles will still be able to play the main feature of the disc, however.

3 (audio only)
Profile 3 is meant for an audio-only player and does not require video decoding or BD-J.

jolaca

07-25-07, 07:06 PM

I have recently upgrade from a JVC HX1 to an HD1 and I have to say it is incredible. :eek:
Now I am using the Xbox360 add-on as my HD source but I would like to purchase the new universal samsung. However, after following this thread I did not get clear if all the audio format support is also available via analog outputs (in other words...does it have good audio DACs??). I am not willing to change my actual AV processor as I am very happy with it. Thank you for your answers.

Jorge.

So, as nobody has, now I can answer myself. :rolleyes:
Yes, it will have 7.1 analog output!!...yes!! I will probably buy this player when it comes available, a bit expensive but only one box and lots of features!!... the only thing I do not understand is why it seems not to support 1080p24 HDDVD playback!??

ls1115

07-25-07, 07:27 PM

This is from Engadget, dated July 25, 2007:

The dual-format BD-UP5000 was also announced back in April, and now we know that it will play back both of the high-definition formats at 1080p and includes the HQV upconversion processor chip found in the BD-P2400. It includes the same feature set as the BD-P2400, with Blu-ray playback at 24 or 60fps, 7.1-channel out, and Dolby Digital Plus and DTS HD support. It also has HD DVD-specific features like local storage and picture-in-picture support, while staying fully compatible with both the HDi and BD-J interactive specs. ... The BD-UP5000 will retail for $1,049, and ... will ship ... in the fourth quarter of this year.

Full article:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/25/samsung-announces-more-details-on-3rd-gen-and-dual-format-player/

pettit03

07-25-07, 07:46 PM

Let me get this straight, I can either buy a $399 MSRP HD-A20 and a $499 MSRP BDP-S300 for $898 MSRP Total.

Or I can buy the UP5000 for $1049 MSRP.

I've gotta ask, Does Samsung even look at other prices when pricing their items, or do they just price it at whatever they have to, to turn a profit, sales numbers be damn.

But oh wait, that logic wouldn't work, because they wouldn't sell any. So that leads a rational person in to believing what????? That they will have to lower their price when it is finally actually for sale, thats what.

I'm not even mentioning that the street price for the Sony unit is really $449, and the street price for the HD-A20 is $329.

Of course if the street price for the UP5000 turns out to be $900, then I suppose it isn't that bad of a deal.

I work at BB and I think that customers will note bite for anymore than $799. Maybe $899 because if they buy any BD/HD player and a HDTV, they get $100 off the package. I wish this Samsung was lower, enough thoughI work at BB, most next-gen players we don't even save a cent.

veniex

07-25-07, 07:51 PM

Gizmodo mini review (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/grope/hands+on-samsungs-bd+up5000-hybrid-hd-dvd-and-blu+ray-player-verdict-so-far-the-best-282569.php)

Lee Stewart

07-25-07, 07:58 PM

Gizmodo mini review (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/grope/hands+on-samsungs-bd+up5000-hybrid-hd-dvd-and-blu+ray-player-verdict-so-far-the-best-282569.php)

The UP5000 also features an HQV Reon processor, the same video scaler and deinterlacer that made the current gen Toshiba HD DVD player's images so good.

:cool:

BZiggyZ

07-25-07, 08:12 PM

Man, I want this thing. I'm going to have to pull a fast one on my wife to do it though. I never thought I'd be more excited to see a Samsung than a Denon.

DavidHir

07-25-07, 08:50 PM

dildatonr

07-25-07, 09:02 PM

it does indeed have 7.1 analog outs :)

http://gizmodo.com/photogallery/samsungbdup5000/2238314

I will purchase this lovely box.

peterlee

07-25-07, 09:06 PM

Lee Stewart

07-25-07, 09:13 PM

Engadget's writeup made it sound like this player won't support Profile 1.1 by describing local storage and PIP as HD DVD-specific features. One would think that if this player supported these features on Blu-ray, it would not have been written this way.

According to the BDA any player introduced after 10/31/07 MUST comply with Profile 1.1. This player was originally announced for November.

peterlee

07-25-07, 10:01 PM

According to the BDA any player introduced after 10/31/07 MUST comply with Profile 1.1. This player was originally announced for November.

Gizmodo has a picture of the spec sheet here:

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/officially-official/samsung-finally-announces-its-bd+up5000-blu+ray-hd-dvd-hybrid-player-plus-ht+bd2-blu+ray-home-theater-282313.php

and the release date for the 5000 is listed as 4Q 2007. Assuming we're talking calendar quarters, that means it could be introduced before the deadline. And also note, the spec sheet is notably silent on 1.1 support. So no, I don't think there's anything other than wishful thinking so far that this player supports 1.1. Why, if this player definitely supports 1.1, doesn't Samsung come out and just list it? The only reason for the coyness is that Samsung isn't sure yet whether it will support 1.1. It may but so far, nothing's been confirmed.

Lee Stewart

07-25-07, 10:32 PM

Gizmodo has a picture of the spec sheet here:

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/officially-official/samsung-finally-announces-its-bd+up5000-blu+ray-hd-dvd-hybrid-player-plus-ht+bd2-blu+ray-home-theater-282313.php

and the release date for the 5000 is listed as 4Q 2007. Assuming we're talking calendar quarters, that means it could be introduced before the deadline. And also note, the spec sheet is notably silent on 1.1 support. So no, I don't think there's anything other than wishful thinking so far that this player supports 1.1. Why, if this player definitely supports 1.1, doesn't Samsung come out and just list it? The only reason for the coyness is that Samsung isn't sure yet whether it will support 1.1. It may but so far, nothing's been confirmed.

Samsung is releasing 3 players - one each month starting September:

Sept - P1400 - $549

Oct. - P2400 - $649

Nov. - UP5000 - $1049

There is nothing that says you can't have 1.1 earlier than 10/31. The mandate is that you have to for those players after this date.

Ou8thisSN

07-25-07, 10:48 PM

any thoughts on the audio performance of this player? will it play DVD-A/SACD?

peterlee

07-25-07, 10:51 PM

Samsung is releasing 3 players - one each month starting September:

Sept - P1400 - $549

Oct. - P2400 - $649

Nov. - UP5000 - $1049

There is nothing that says you can't have 1.1 earlier than 10/31. The mandate is that you have to for those players after this date.

Dude, seriously, stop lying. It amazes me that you would actually FABRICATE information - show us on the spec sheet where it says UP5000 will be released in November! How is 4Q2007 synonymous with November 2007 in your brain? Perhaps you're not familiar with the Gregorian calendar but there are three months in the 4th quarter - October, November and December. If Samsung meant November 2007, why didn't it just write down November 2007 as the release date? It had no problem listing the specific release month for the other two players yet it deliberately went with the more general 4th quarter 2007 with the 5000 player. What, you just KNOW that when Samsung wrote down 4Q2007, it really meant November 2007? Sorry but I will trust Samsung's actual words over your interpretation of them, interpretation which you are passing off as fact. YOU are the one who claimed that the 5000 player is going to support Profile 1.1 because it was going to be released after the mandatory deadline. I pointed out that Samsung's spec sheet literally says no such thing, NOWHERE does it say the release date is November 2007, rather the release timeframe is listed as 4th quarter 2007, which allows it to release the player before the deadline, meaning that it can be released without Profile 1.1. And then you try to pull the sleigh of hand and say well, even if it's released before the deadline, it can still support Profile 1.1, which isn't what you were saying before when you were insisting that it WILL support Profile 1.1 because it WILL be released in November 2007. What a sleazy, desperate tactic when your statements were revealed as untenable and demonstrably unsupported by the available Samsung information.

Lee Stewart

07-25-07, 11:32 PM

Dude, seriously, stop lying. It amazes me that you would actually FABRICATE information - show us on the spec sheet where it says UP5000 will be released in November! How is 4Q2007 synonymous with November 2007 in your brain? Perhaps you're not familiar with the Gregorian calendar but there are three months in the 4th quarter - October, November and December. If Samsung meant November 2007, why didn't it just write down November 2007 as the release date? It had no problem listing the specific release month for the other two players yet it deliberately went with the more general 4th quarter 2007 with the 5000 player. What, you just KNOW that when Samsung wrote down 4Q2007, it really meant November 2007? Sorry but I will trust Samsung's actual words over your interpretation of them, interpretation which you are passing off as fact. YOU are the one who claimed that the 5000 player is going to support Profile 1.1 because it was going to be released after the mandatory deadline. I pointed out that Samsung's spec sheet literally says no such thing, NOWHERE does it say the release date is November 2007, rather the release timeframe is listed as 4th quarter 2007, which allows it to release the player before the deadline, meaning that it can be released without Profile 1.1. And then you pull the bait-and-switch and say that even if it's released before the deadline, it can still support Profile 1.1, as if I had suggested that Samsung couldn't support Profile 1.1 before the deadline. What a sleazy tactic, trying to put words into my mouth when your statements were revealed as untenable and demonstrably baseless.

RED:While the final cost of the player hasn't been finalized, the device should be ready by October or November

http://www.electronista.com/articles/07/07/04/samsung.hybrid.launch.info/

The BD-P2400 will be available in October for $649, and the BD-P1400 in September for $549.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/07/11/samsungs-bd-p2400-and-bd-p1400-third-gen-blu-ray-players/

ckelly33

07-26-07, 12:04 AM

Richard, my contacts have confirmed Samsung's development of a hybrid HD DVD/BD player. The retail will be around $1k. and it will be fully BD-J and HD DVD compliant.

-Robert

When does the preorder page w/forum discounts start at VE Robert? :D

mattmarsden

07-26-07, 04:28 AM

Do we know if it will do 24p for HD DVD yet?

sanderdvd

07-26-07, 04:32 AM

does it have DTS-HD Master decoding on board?

CraigCooper

07-26-07, 05:29 AM

Wow sign me up now.

Paul Cordingley

07-26-07, 07:41 AM

Did I see dual HDMI outs on that baby? That would be super good - one to the projector, one to the receiver (I don't think my Pioneer receiver could handle 1080p let alone 1080p/24). This is shaping to be the perfect device (apart from lack of 24p for HD DVD which I am sure will be a firmware fix away).

Lee Stewart

07-26-07, 07:49 AM

Lee Stewart

07-26-07, 07:52 AM

Do we know if it will do 24p for HD DVD yet?

I believe we will have to wait for September for the HD DVD firmware upgrade for the XA2. Once this is available then we can see if the 5000 will support 1080P/24 for HD DVD

Lee Stewart

07-26-07, 07:54 AM

does it have DTS-HD Master decoding on board?

No. . . DD+, DTS HD and Dolby TrueHD

sanderdvd

07-26-07, 09:44 AM

sure? :( :( :( :(
So Denon is still exclusive with their BR player announced to have DTS-MA for BR.......

Ou8thisSN

07-26-07, 10:32 AM

audioholics says it will have DTS-MA support:

Additional features include Picture-in-Picture support (for dual-channel video and audio), 24fps support for native frame rate transfer of the source film content to compatible displays, and 7.1-channel audio outputs with full support for Dolby TrueHD and dts-HD Master Audio. CEC support means that the HDMI cable will also be able to facilitate communication between the Samsung Duo player and a compatible Samsung display.

DTV TiVo Dealer

07-26-07, 10:44 AM

I don't see DTS Master Audio in the spec's.

-Robert

lorelevitt

07-26-07, 11:27 AM

Here is the the actual news release from Samsung. Anything else not contained within this is speculation at this point until Samsung clarifies some of the contents

todrigo

07-26-07, 12:26 PM

Dude, seriously, stop lying. It amazes me that you would actually FABRICATE information

QFT

Lee, I thought the 5000 was going to retail at like $550? you had all those articles you referenced you seemed so sure.

Lee Stewart
AVS Special Member

Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,095 There seems to be some confusion on this price issue. First off they are talking about UK money which in the UK - HDM players sell for much more than they do in the USA including the PS3.

Another site also picked up the "less than $600" price from After Dawn. . . . which specifically said . . "Here in the USA" - and not in the UK.

Although the final cost and release date were not finalized, Samsung said it should be ready for shipment in October with a $545 USD price tag.

But hey at least in this quote you use October as the ship date what gives?

sanderdvd

07-26-07, 12:55 PM

audioholics says it will have DTS-MA support:

no DTS Master Audio in the spec's so we ll just have to wait for a samsung insiders to give us the good or bad news for DTS MA codec yes/no.........

Lee Stewart

07-26-07, 01:22 PM

QFT

Lee, I thought the 5000 was going to retail at like $550? you had all those articles you referenced you seemed so sure.

As you know there were conflicting prices given. I started a thread at HDF that said: "Samsung DF Player Below $600?" You do see the question mark right.

Shortly after when the 1400 and the 2400 were announced with pricing and delivery dates (which month) the higher pricing article concerning the 5000 made more sense then the other articles that claimed it would sell for less than $600 - those who did not interput the announcement properly. That is all that happened

But hey at least in this quote you use October as the ship date what gives?

There have been three delivery dates for the 5000 reported in news articles that can be linked:

This one that says October
The UK article that says October or November
The announcement that says Q4.

If you would like my reasoning why I "picked" November? Simply because the 1400 is scheduled for Sept. The 2400 for October. Why release 2 players in the same month? And with a DF player - a winner - a format war ender - why not make sure that it is 1.1 compliant.

If you believe this is wrong - OK . . I accept it. I am not offering cast in concrete facts. i am offerring what has been published with a very small bit of speculation.

mattmarsden

07-27-07, 05:46 AM

In the PDF file the class DTS-HD as a lossless format so we can hope!

arpboy

07-27-07, 02:16 PM

I am unable to attach a link as this is my first post.

From blogs at pcworld:

"Wednesday, July 25, 2007 9:40 AM PT Posted by Melissa Perenson

UPDATE: And, sadly, you won't get support for the forthcoming update to Blu-ray's minimum player specs that go into effect October 31. Those specs delineate requirements for in-unit storage (256MB for those keeping score), picture-in-picture via a secondary audio and video decode, and ethernet-enabled interactivity. Samsung's own initial press release, distributed earlier today, noted the player will have local storage and picture-in-picture--however, it did not specify that those features would be strictly for HD DVD discs (the company has since updated their info). Later in the day I met with Samsung's Maria Colon, marketing manager, and Reid Sullivan, vice president of marketing; they clarified that the BD-UP5000's storage and picture-in-picture would only work or HD DVD discs, not Blu-ray Discs. Sullivan also said that Samsung would not have a Blu-ray player with the updated specs until 2008.

Samsung is checking to see whether support for the new Blu-ray specs might be viable through a future firmware update. My guess is the necessary guts to do so may not be there, but one could hope.

Ultimately, I find it a shame that a consumer electronics giant such as Samsung failed to have the foresight to consider beyond the short-term for this player's hardware. As Sullivan noted in conversation with me, it's the proverbial chicken-and-egg challenge: If the software (meaning: Blu-ray movies) aren't out that require the storage and picture-in-picture, then why should the hardware makers rush to integrate those features?

I disagree with that approach--it's conceivable that a player manufacturer could integrate the necessary hardware to support the new spec, and then update the player via firmware to turn those features on when ready. That approach would be a boon to consumers, who get new features (already, manufacturers have added things like Dolby TrueHD and other audio codec support via firmware)."

jlanzy

07-27-07, 03:20 PM

Enigma

07-27-07, 03:55 PM

From this:

And, sadly, you won't get support for the forthcoming update to Blu-ray's minimum player specs that go into effect October 31. Those specs delineate requirements for in-unit storage (256MB for those keeping score), picture-in-picture via a secondary audio and video decode, and ethernet-enabled interactivity. Samsung's own initial press release, distributed earlier today, noted the player will have local storage and picture-in-picture--however, it did not specify that those features would be strictly for HD DVD discs (the company has since updated their info). Later in the day I met with Samsung's Maria Colon, marketing manager, and Reid Sullivan, vice president of marketing; they clarified that the BD-UP5000's storage and picture-in-picture would only work or HD DVD discs, not Blu-ray Discs. Sullivan also said that Samsung would not have a Blu-ray player with the updated specs until 2008.

It sounds like this person at least believes no 1.1 this year; OTOH from info I'd read previously no 24 fps for HD DVD. My guess is all this is subject to change, though; if the hardware is all there it seems like it could be done with firmware. Having the hardware for HD DVD interactivity isn't enough to support the BD-J PiP specs, though, because they require HD capability in the secondary decoder, which apparently is optional (and yet to be implemented) in HD DVD.

Now that I think about it, Sammy never announced profile 1.1 for their upcoming BD only players, either; despite having an internet connection. Anyone know which chip these various Sammy's are rumored to use?

Tim Sly

07-27-07, 11:10 PM

Do we know yet if this player will send out the TrueHD and DTS-HDMA signals through bitstream since no players as of yet do this?

PNYBOY

07-28-07, 01:53 PM

Do we know yet if this player will send out the TrueHD and DTS-HDMA signals through bitstream since no players as of yet do this?

This is my main concern as well.

Enigma

07-28-07, 02:13 PM

Having the hardware for HD DVD interactivity isn't enough to support the BD-J PiP specs, though, because they require HD capability in the secondary decoder, which apparently is optional (and yet to be implemented) in HD DVD.
Apparently this has now proven to be incorrect; from info from the insiders' thread (amir & confirmed by paidgeek) only SD PiP is required by profile 1.1. HD PiP will be optional. So in that case, obviously the Sammy will have all necessary hardware (since it can do PiP in HD DVD); plus an internet connection. I see no reason they wouldn't implement profile 1.1; if not at introduction at least via firmware upgrade.

Lee Stewart

07-28-07, 03:15 PM

Apparently this has now proven to be incorrect; from info from the insiders' thread (amir & confirmed by paidgeek) only SD PiP is required by profile 1.1. HD PiP will be optional. So in that case, obviously the Sammy will have all necessary hardware (since it can do PiP in HD DVD); plus an internet connection. I see no reason they wouldn't implement profile 1.1; if not at introduction at least via firmware upgrade.

Do we know for a fact that the Samsung players DO have the necessary 256 MB memory for storage. I can't find anything on this.

jlanzy

07-28-07, 03:57 PM

Do we know yet if this player will send out the TrueHD and DTS-HDMA signals through bitstream since no players as of yet do this?

Is this to allow a receiver/processor to decode the audio signals rather than the player via spdif rather than HDMI? If that is the case then the expectation is that the receiver/processor would perform that better than the player, right?

There seems to be so many variables for each format it's hard to keep straight what each one is for and if I would even use or need them! Lide the 256MB of storage, what are we storing? or the bd-j, what would I use that for? etc....
joe

Lee Stewart

07-28-07, 04:11 PM

Is this to allow a receiver/processor to decode the audio signals rather than the player via spdif rather than HDMI? If that is the case then the expectation is that the receiver/processor would perform that better than the player, right?

There seems to be so many variables for each format it's hard to keep straight what each one is for and if I would even use or need them! Lide the 256MB of storage, what are we storing? or the bd-j, what would I use that for? etc....
joe

The 256 MB memory is for PIP - "persistant" storage. - Profile 1.1 requires 256 MB

Enigma

07-28-07, 04:15 PM

Apparently even the existing Sammy BD 1200 player has 256 MB. See this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10486236&&#post10486234) and this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10486373&&#post10486373) for more details. It sounds like the existing player was designed to be at least upgradable to 1.1 profile, however, despite having the 256 memory and internet connection, the broadcom SoC chip it uses doesn't support "luma key", which apparently is a requirement for 1.1. From reading some of these other threads it looks like it would need either a Broadcom 7440 or Sigma SMP8634. I haven't seen any info on which chips either the new Sammy BD players use or the Sammy Dou player. If I had to guess it would be the Broadcom 7440.

Lee Stewart

07-28-07, 10:19 PM

Enigma

07-29-07, 12:20 AM

Lee Stewart

07-29-07, 12:51 AM

Well, I had a 50/50 chance :p

The other item I'm curious about is if the secondary audio and video decoder is included in the Sigma & Broadcom chips; or if these would be external, and thus another hardware requirement (I'm guessing it's part of the chip). I'm not sure how this is currently handled with HD DVD players.

Look at Page 2 of the Sigma 8634. They are all listed there (and more) and says "deliverables included" So I will walk out on a limb and say it is a SoC.

I have this post in the Insiders Thread hoping I can get an answer.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11154060#post11154060

Enigma

07-29-07, 01:11 AM

Look at Page 2 of the Sigma 8634. They are all listed there (and more) and says "deliverables included" So I will walk out on a limb and say it is a SoC.

Hmm...the brochure says this chip has HD dual decoders and dual audio decoders. Where did you find the info on which chip the Sammy Dou player uses? If this info is correct, looks like 1.1 should be easy; profile 2 will depend on having more memory (1 gig is the requirement, I think). I suspect these will be common by this time next year, and all of this mystery will be behind us.

Lee Stewart

07-29-07, 01:31 AM

Hmm...the brochure says this chip has HD dual decoders and dual audio decoders. Where did you find the info on which chip the Sammy Dou player uses? If this info is correct, looks like 1.1 should be easy; profile 2 will depend on having more memory (1 gig is the requirement, I think). I suspect these will be common by this time next year, and all of this mystery will be behind us.

I haven't found which chip the Sammy Duo uses. Where I am at is to know that it has to have the 8634 or else it is not 1.1.

That was tuff enough :D

PS - Hello from Ft. Lauderdale

Enigma

07-29-07, 03:27 AM

fistofsouth

07-29-07, 04:25 AM

Ahh...the player I've been waiting on. Now I just need to wait around for several massive price-cuts and I have my next HDM Player.

Starkenator

07-29-07, 09:55 AM

it does indeed have 7.1 analog outs :)

http://gizmodo.com/photogallery/samsungbdup5000/2238314

I will purchase this lovely box.

So if I connect this player to a reciever with 7.1 analog inputs will I be able to get lossless 7.1 surround if the disc only has a TrueHD or PCM 5.1 soundrack? Or will only the reciever be able to upmix PCM or TrueHD 5.1 to 7.1?

dildatonr

07-29-07, 11:19 AM

I would assume you would need the receiver to add the channels. I would be very surprised if the Player itself had this ability/option. It would be a first to my knowledge.

Lee Stewart

07-29-07, 11:59 AM

Oh, my mistake. I understood the Broadcom 7440 also could be 1.1; however the context seems to be "luma-key capable", rather than having a secondary decoder. It appears that it is also dual channel capable, although it doesn't specify HD secondary decoding in the brochure (http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/7440-PB100-R.pdf).

Based on the latest info, though, profile 1.1 doesn't require dual HD decoding, anyway (it's optional).

I am going strictly on the published info from Broadcom. They say 1.0 - that is what I believe. If the specs didn't call for it then they could claim 1.1 compliant . . . but they don't. Only Sigma does.

jimim

07-30-07, 09:15 AM

Do we know yet if this player will send out the TrueHD and DTS-HDMA signals through bitstream since no players as of yet do this?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that there wasn't enough bandwith to carry lossless HD audio, only DTS and DD? You have to use analog outs or hdmi for the HD audio formats.

jimi

sanderdvd

07-30-07, 09:36 AM

more important for me: do we know already if the player has on board DTS-MA + TrueHD decoding?

Enigma

07-30-07, 10:27 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that there wasn't enough bandwith to carry lossless HD audio, only DTS and DD? You have to use analog outs or hdmi for the HD audio formats.You are correct wrt spdif outputs (optical, co-ax). HDMI can transmit data in either form as well; either as an undecoded bitstream or as decoded LPCM (uncompressed).

Lee Stewart

07-30-07, 01:37 PM

more important for me: do we know already if the player has on board DTS-MA + TrueHD decoding?

It appears that is does not. This is based on the fact that the P1200 uses the 7440 SoC which does not do DTS-MA. If Samsung continues to use the same chip - NG on DTS-MA. Samsung has already said no 1.1 in 2007 - will come in 2008. That means to me that are not using the 8634 chip which is 1.1 compliant and does ALL formats including DTS-MA.

Here is info on how to hookup your HD player and get DTS-MA right from DTS website - top 2 choices:

http://www.dts.com/dts-hd/how-does-it-work.php

Steve Goff

07-30-07, 02:15 PM

I haven't found which chip the Sammy Duo uses. Where I am at is to know that it has to have the 8634 or else it is not 1.1.

That was tuff enough :D

PS - Hello from Ft. Lauderdale
Only Rev. C of the Sigma 8634 will do luma keying necessary for Profile 1.1.

Steve Goff

07-30-07, 02:19 PM

Well it isn't the Broadcom 7440. It's the Sigma 8634:

Broadcom 7440 - Says profile 1.0 and 2.0

http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/7440-PB100-R.pdf

Sigma SMP8634 - Says Profile 1.1 and 2.0 - THIS IS IT

http://www.sigmadesigns.com/public/P...ray8634_br.pdf
The Broadcom Chip should do Profile 1.1 if it will do Profile 2.0

Steve Goff

07-30-07, 02:25 PM

It appears that is does not. This is based on the fact that the P1200 uses the 7440 SoC which does not do DTS-MA. If Samsung continues to use the same chip - NG on DTS-MA. Samsung has already said no 1.1 in 2007 - will come in 2008. That means to me that are not using the 8634 chip which is 1.1 compliant and does ALL formats including DTS-MA.

Here is info on how to hookup your HD player and get DTS-MA right from DTS website - top 2 choices:

http://www.dts.com/dts-hd/how-does-it-work.php
The Samsung 1200 actually uses the BCM7411, not the BCM7440, which is supposed to do Profile 1.1.

Lee Stewart

07-30-07, 06:28 PM

Please excuse my ignorance and misconception of the "facts" as I presented them. I apologize for any misinformation I may have given in an effort to bring issues into the daylight that companies don't seem to want to be known.

Lee Stewart
:o

rdjam

07-31-07, 10:44 PM

My guess is that the Samsung 5000 will use a Broadcom chip. BDM seem to have been more publicly supportive of the whole dual-format thing than have been Sigma Designs, and I'm guessing were a bit ahead of the curve on this when Samsung was making the choice.

Just guesswork on my part, as I haven't seen yet what they have chosen.

Brent Madden

08-01-07, 01:04 AM

This is probably a stupid question, but if I connect this player to the analog outs on my Pioneer Elite receiver, will I be able to get TrueHD and/or DTS-MA?

CraigCooper

08-01-07, 01:18 AM

This is probably a stupid question, but if I connect this player to the analog outs on my Pioneer Elite receiver, will I be able to get TrueHD and/or DTS-MA?
The player will decode them ( if able ) and pass it to the amp as PCM.

Brent Madden

08-01-07, 01:20 PM

The player will decode them ( if able ) and pass it to the amp as PCM.

Gotcha. Thanks. :)

borg.cube

08-01-07, 04:17 PM

ckelly33

08-01-07, 04:25 PM

joarda2

08-01-07, 04:41 PM

Concerning Brent's post about analog outs...I assume that when you hook up HDMI, the analog outs are still active and vice~versa. I know some players/components when you use "x" output then "y" becomes disabled and so on. Ideally I want to hook up the HDMI direct to my TV and the audio thru my processor. But the reply post mentions (if able) it will be passed as PCM. What would be the result if it is unable?

B&W700guy

08-01-07, 08:44 PM

This is probably a stupid question, but if I connect this player to the analog outs on my Pioneer Elite receiver, will I be able to get TrueHD and/or DTS-MA?

No your question was not stupid, but the answer Maybe? "If Able" what type of answer is that?

I hope it is a type-o

Lee Stewart

08-01-07, 09:08 PM

This is probably a stupid question, but if I connect this player to the analog outs on my Pioneer Elite receiver, will I be able to get TrueHD and/or DTS-MA?

If the BD has TrueHD audio on it than yes you will be able to get it via the 5.1 Analog output of the player into the 5.1 Analog Input on your receiver.

To my knowledge, there is no receiver that will do DTS-MA. Your setup with this player will also do DTS-HD as that is the counterpart of Dolby THD.

[omen]

08-01-07, 10:55 PM

I sent an email to the Samsung POC on the original BD-UP5000 formal announcement. He sent it over to their public relations firm (www.mww.com).

I got an email from the firm today that they checked with Samsung and that on the BD-UP5000 "to confirm, yes, HD-DVD's will be output at 1080p 24 fps as well."
Hopefully he got that from the tech folks but that is good news.

I heard that Robert Zohn at Value Electronics is checking on this as well so hopefully he'll be able to confirm this from his sources.
That really is good news. And that's awesome that Robert Zohn is working on corroborating it.

This was something I was wondering about how the player would handle (and perform when) switching between formats. Would there be handshake issues? Can you set an output mode for each format, or only for the player itself? How would it all work?

Attention all victims of the Format War, here comes Samsung to the rescue! :D

mattmarsden

08-02-07, 04:37 AM

Excellent news on the 24fps, they've just got themselves another sale

Flausch

08-02-07, 04:42 AM

If 24p is supported for both formats, this will be my first HD-player. I don't care about BD-Profile 1.1, as long as the main movie and most of the extras can be played.
Think about features of the DVD like Multiangle oder Seamless Branching, which were used by only a few titles (at least here in Germany).
All these features are nice, but if they are not used by the software, they remain just theoretical features...
Why didn't they put it in the first BD-specification? Because PIP etc. is not an important feature, but HD-DVD has it, so they put it in 1.1 because they don't want HD-DVD to have any unique features.

Just give me an affordable HD-Player, that plays both Formats without flaws in 1080p/24 and upscales DVDs with high quality. The BD-UP 5000 looks like a winner to me! :)

A/Vspec

08-02-07, 08:43 AM

Any news on if this player with do vertical stretch zoom for those of us with 2.35: 1 setups?

strutter

08-02-07, 09:18 AM

To my knowledge, there is no receiver that will do DTS-MA. .

the new onkyo 875 and 905 as well as the new denon 3808ci and 4308ci is reported to over HDMI. at least the specs say they will.

HD AV

08-02-07, 10:56 AM

One item not discussed in the speculation on dual format players and/or who will win the format war is the costs associated with the software. On the HD-DVD side, they are going to start producing a hybrid HD/standard DVD and phase out just standard DVDs for the titles released in HD-DVD. This is going to raise the cost of the DVDs due to the associated production costs. Why would J6P, or anyone else, pay the premium price of a hybrid DVD when they don't have an HD-DVD player. The HD-DVD studios will be shooting themselves in the foot. Their thinking is that this type of disk will protect one's investment in the future when they buy a HD-DVD player plus the HD-DVD studios don't have 2 separate types of media out there. There is also talk of universal, or dual format, HD on one side and BR on the other. These will also be more expensive than the current releases. Does anyone really believe J6P will rush out to pay 50% more for his DVDs whether he has a HD or BR player or not. IMHO this is going to put a significant dent in DVD and HD/BR player sales and keep hardware prices fairly high (by comparison to standard DVD) for quite a while. These tactics by the studios may severely ****** the mass adoption of High Definition players regardless of format and, possibly, kill the format considering the alternatives of VOD, FIOS, and other methods of delivering content in SD and HD.

dildatonr

08-04-07, 10:04 AM

Well first off I don't see what any of that has to do with this samsung model.

I take issue with the conjecture and logic you ar e using - but I would suggest you bring that topic up in it's own thread - possibly the HD DVD software or Hardware section. This thread is for discussion of this particular model.

Lee Stewart

08-04-07, 11:45 AM

Rutgar

08-04-07, 12:26 PM

On the HD-DVD side, they are going to start producing a hybrid HD/standard DVD and phase out just standard DVDs for the titles released in HD-DVD.

As an HD enthusiast, I would love to see SD DVD's eliminated, and replaced by the HD/SD combos (as long as there were also stand-alone HD copies produced as well). That would force the issue and make J6P comply and move to HD. However, I just don't see that happening. At least not any time soon. The studios are still making way too much money off of SD-DVD to shoot themselves in the foot like that. Plus, the BD exclusive camp has no such SD/HD combo equivalent. So there would be no reason what so ever, for them to follow suit. This idea would probably work, if there was only one HD format. But not with two.

strutter

08-04-07, 12:52 PM

LINK?

this is not the place for this discussion........ but here is a link

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=883520

it doesnt exactly support his statement of this being the end of SD DVD. but quite the contrary. reads like this is the end for HD DVD!

Rutgar

08-04-07, 01:20 PM

this is not the place for this discussion........ but here is a link

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=883520

it doesnt exactly support his statement of this being the end of SD DVD. but quite the contrary. reads like this is the end for HD DVD!

I'm not sure why you tied this link the Lee's question. You even it admit that it doesn't support the contention that SD-DVD is getting phased out. But is does support pretty much of what most people are saying about hybrid discs on these forums, including myself.

strutter

08-04-07, 03:34 PM

^^
heck .......i dont know why either. now that i reread the previous few posts.

anywho....has any new info about this player been leaked?

Lee Stewart

08-04-07, 09:51 PM

I think he is referencing the TWIN Format HD DVD Today it has 2 layers - a 15GB HD layer and a 9 GB DVD layer. But the only way to truly make it work is a 30GB 2 layers and a 3rd layer for 9 GB for DVD. That would give a max of 5 hours for HD and what ever the max is for DVD using 9 GB.

Unfortunately this doesn't exist. We have seen a TL 51 GB ALL HD disc. and the 2 layer I described (used for the HD DVD Freedom 1)

Until such time we actually see one in action . . . consider it vaporware.

TheHDMan

08-04-07, 10:06 PM

To my knowledge, there is no receiver that will do DTS-MA. Your setup with this player will also do DTS-HD as that is the counterpart of Dolby THD.

Yes there is, if the player has a DTS-HD decoder...read this. The website shows how to get MA and HR with current receivers.

http://www.dts.com/dts-hd/dtshd-master-audio-with-existing-receiver.php

kelpie

08-05-07, 09:40 AM

Yes there is, if the player has a DTS-HD decoder...read this. The website shows how to get MA and HR with current receivers.

http://www.dts.com/dts-hd/dtshd-master-audio-with-existing-receiver.php

I would encourage readers interested in this topic to follow this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=883595&page=1&pp=30) that TheHDMan started on the Blu-ray player forum.

Steve Goff

08-05-07, 04:02 PM

The new Onkyo and Integra receivers and processors do decode DTS-HD MA. And contrary to what HDMan says, a decoder that decodes only HD will decode part of MA and output PCM, but it will not decode the MA extension, and will not put out lossless MA.

Brian81

08-06-07, 02:51 PM

Louisville S

08-06-07, 03:10 PM

Anyone with a link to updated specs on this?

From what I've gathered, and please correct me if I am wrong!

It has HQV, does 1080p for both HD-DVD and BD at 60Hz (not sure if it does 24Hz for both formats but I do not think my TV accepts this anyways so it does not matter to me), decodes DTS-HD MA, and is compliant with iHD and also BD-J?

For someone like me who cannot use 24Hz, if all these are true, this covers all features of HD-DVD that I can use, and most of BD also? Is this player going to be Profile 1.1 or 2.0 compliant? I am sick of the wait and would bite on this if it is Profile 1.1.

I am EXACTLY in the same situation as you Brian. I'd jump on this in a second if it was $800 and had all those features you have listed.

I've been refreshing this page like crazy today, :D

Lee Stewart

08-06-07, 08:58 PM

Anyone with a link to updated specs on this?
From what I've gathered, and please correct me if I am wrong!

It has HQV, does 1080p for both HD-DVD and BD at 60Hz (not sure if it does 24Hz for both formats but I do not think my TV accepts this anyways so it does not matter to me), decodes DTS-HD MA, and is compliant with iHD and also BD-J?

For someone like me who cannot use 24Hz, if all these are true, this covers all features of HD-DVD that I can use, and most of BD also? Is this player going to be Profile 1.1 or 2.0 compliant? I am sick of the wait and would bite on this if it is Profile 1.1.

No updated specs yet - though none are really missing. HD DVD is 1080i out while BD is 1080x24P out. This may change when Toshiba releases the firmware to upgrade the A20 and XA2 to 1080x24P next month.

It is HDI compliant . . . .but not Profile 1.1. It is a Profile 1.0 player - no PIP for BD movies (if and when they have it - like WB titles)

The player cannot play BD-R or BD-RE formats - only BD ROM

Still not 100% sure on the DTS-MA. Hope someone will answer that part

mattmarsden

08-07-07, 04:38 AM

Well we've had a pretty good confirmation on the 24P for HD DVD (though it would be nice to see it on the spec sheet) and I'm probably 70% confident about the DTS-MA. Could be a lovely player.

dude2006

08-07-07, 08:39 AM

Lee Stewart

08-07-07, 08:42 AM

Well we've had a pretty good confirmation on the 24P for HD DVD (though it would be nice to see it on the spec sheet) and I'm probably 70% confident about the DTS-MA. Could be a lovely player.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/officially-official/samsung-finally-announces-its-bd+up5000-blu+ray-hd-dvd-hybrid-player-plus-ht+bd2-blu+ray-home-theater-282313.php

Lee Stewart

08-07-07, 08:48 AM

Hi all, I'm a home theater enthusiast (am getting an Onkyo 905 delivered today) but so far I've resisted getting into blu ray and HD DVD because of the format "war", until I learned of this upcoming dual player (I had previously looked at the LG but the lack of full HD DVD support turned me off). I was wondering if, besides the arguably high price, there is anything about this samsung that is a "deal breaker." For instance, I saw the discussion regarding profile 1.0 and 1.1 but reading about the differences, it doesn't seem that a lack of 1.1 would be a big deal for me. Is Samsung putting out a good product with this one? If yes, I'll buy it because I don't have PS3 or X Box and don't want to have 2 separate DVD players.

Thanks

The 5000 is a P2400 combined with an A20 (once the 1080P upgrade is in place). It is a fully supported HD DVD player and a BD player with a few caveats:

1. No profile 1.1 - no PIP for BD movies released with this special feature.

2. No playback of BD-R/RE discs.

So if all you care about is watching a movie in BD and don't intend to burn any BD's - then this is your player. Keep in mind that you can buy either format so in a case of say "300" - you could buy the HD DVD version if you wanted the movie and the PIP. The world is your oyster when you can buy either format. Plus it has the Reon UP DVD chip - the best upconverting DVD chip on the market for players less than $2000.

See above post for link to hands on review and specs.

Louisville S

08-07-07, 09:04 AM

I really hope this player has DTS-HD MA, :D I am not too worried about the Profile 1.1 because I rarely watch the extras anyways. To have the ability to buy both formats is a huge plus. We'll probably have two formats for a long time because the lack of HDTVs in the average American household, not to mention how many people are still satisfied with DVDs, :o

dude2006

08-07-07, 10:19 AM

The 5000 is a P2400 combined with an A20 (once the 1080P upgrade is in place). It is a fully supported HD DVD player and a BD player with a few caveats:

1. No profile 1.1 - no PIP for BD movies released with this special feature.

2. No playback of BD-R/RE discs.

So if all you care about is watching a movie in BD and don't intend to burn any BD's - then this is your player. Keep in mind that you can buy either format so in a case of say "300" - you could buy the HD DVD version if you wanted the movie and the PIP. The world is your oyster when you can buy either format. Plus it has the Reon UP DVD chip - the best upconverting DVD chip on the market for players less than $2000.

See above post for link to hands on review and specs.

Hmm, if those are the biggest drawbacks it does sound like a great player. I don't even understand how you can have PIP in a DVD so I don't care about that, and I don't plan to burn my own blu-ray movies (at most, I might burn blu-ray for data storage).

As far as potential lack for DTS MA, is there a consensus on whether this player would be able to send the signal via HDMI so that a receiver could process it? Because I got the Onkyo 905 and it supports DTS Master Audio

Finally, on the 1080p/24 issue, this site seems to contradict some posts on here:

7/30 Update:
Samsung responded to our inquiries, confirming that these new players will NOT be compatible with Picture-In-Picture based interactivity with Blu-ray Discs, and that the Duo HD player will output 1080p/24 with Blu-ray, but not HD DVD.

http://ultimateavmag.com/news/72607samsung/

mattmarsden

08-07-07, 10:37 AM

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/officially-official/samsung-finally-announces-its-bd+up5000-blu+ray-hd-dvd-hybrid-player-plus-ht+bd2-blu+ray-home-theater-282313.php

Lee, couldnt see it mention 24P for HD DVD on there, only blu-ray, have i missed it?

mattmarsden

08-07-07, 10:39 AM

[omen]

08-07-07, 11:02 AM

Lee, couldnt see it mention 24P for HD DVD on there, only blu-ray, have i missed it?

The specs in the gizmodo article accompanied Samsung's original announcement, when the unit was supposed to only do 1080i/30 out for HD-DVD.

Later, borg.cube sent his email to Samsung public relations and got the assurance that the player would actually include 1080p/24 functionality for HD-DVD when it was released.

We're still waiting on official confirmation of this.

So, technically those specs posted in the gizmodo article are still current, although we've been given assurances that they will be updated.

dude2006

08-07-07, 11:18 AM

']The specs in the gizmodo article accompanied Samsung's original announcement, when the unit was supposed to only do 1080i/30 out for HD-DVD.

Later, borg.cube sent his email to Samsung public relations and got the assurance that the player would actually include 1080p/24 functionality for HD-DVD when it was released.

We're still waiting on official confirmation of this.

So, technically those specs posted in the gizmodo article are still current, although we've been given assurances that they will be updated.

How about this, though. Supposedly it was from Samsung:

7/30 Update:
Samsung responded to our inquiries, confirming that these new players will NOT be compatible with Picture-In-Picture based interactivity with Blu-ray Discs, and that the Duo HD player will output 1080p/24 with Blu-ray, but not HD DVD.

http://ultimateavmag.com/news/72607samsung/

[omen]

08-07-07, 11:59 AM

How about this, though. Supposedly it was from Samsung:

7/30 Update:
Samsung responded to our inquiries, confirming that these new players will NOT be compatible with Picture-In-Picture based interactivity with Blu-ray Discs, and that the Duo HD player will output 1080p/24 with Blu-ray, but not HD DVD.

http://ultimateavmag.com/news/72607samsung/

Yeah, I know. I saw that. That doesn't bode well. I'm more inclined to believe ultimateavmag than I am Samsung's public relations dept. I'm sure avmag was able to talk to the techs, where I wonder if the public relations dept. rep's know what they are talking about. Still, I'd like to see the final published specs to see if they are able to implement 1080/24p for HD-DVD by the time it ships.

However, even if the player "only" does 1080i/30 I'm still probably going to get this thing. Deinterlacing 30i with 3/2 into 24p is super easy.

NismoZ

08-07-07, 11:59 AM

I noticed that the Toshiba A35 is coming out. Will the 5000 send via BitStream the AVR? Is this the player we've been looking for to hook to our new HDMI 1.3 AVRs?

I have read this thread, but still am confused:

Can someone post a thread review of positives and negatives of this new samsung player?

Lee Stewart

08-07-07, 12:51 PM

']Yeah, I know. I saw that. That doesn't bode well. I'm more inclined to believe ultimateavmag than I am Samsung's public relations dept. I'm sure avmag was able to talk to the techs, where I wonder if the public relations dept. rep's know what they are talking about. Still, I'd like to see the final published specs to see if they are able to implement 1080/24p for HD-DVD by the time it ships.

However, even if the player "only" does 1080i/30 I'm still probably going to get this thing. Deinterlacing 30i with 3/2 into 24p is super easy.

Samsung HAS to say 1080x30/60 for HD DVD . . UNTIL Toshiba delivers the 1080x24P support firmware update. This is due next month. The 5000 is not to be released until October . . . the month after the scheduled update. We will have an announcement from samsung with final specs AFTER Toshiiba proves they can deliver. That's all.

mjg100

08-07-07, 01:41 PM

Does this player have analog outputs which support TrueHD?

If so, this player could be quite a deal for someone who doesn't own an HDMI receiver.

You get Reon for SD DVD deinterlacing/scaling, Blu-ray, HD DVD, and lossless audio even if you don't have an HDMI receiver for a street price under $1000. No standalone Blu-ray and HD DVD combination will likely match this functionality/price (aside from the convenience factor of one player, of course).

If you have a 1.3v receiver you can buy the p2400 and an A2 cheaper. Use the p2400 for SD dvd and your receiver for the decoding of BD. Would this not give you the same thing for one or two hundred dollars less?

ckelly33

08-07-07, 06:59 PM

If you have a 1.3v receiver you can buy the p2400 and an A2 cheaper. Use the p2400 for SD dvd and your receiver for the decoding of BD. Would this not give you the same thing for one or two hundred dollars less?

Not if you are looking for 1080p out of HD-DVD. Only the XA2 does that and hen there goes your 1$100-200.

TheHDMan

08-07-07, 07:47 PM

Not if you are looking for 1080p out of HD-DVD. Only the XA2 does that and hen there goes your 1$100-200.Actually the A20 does 1080P as well for alot cheaper... :)

ckelly33

08-07-07, 08:01 PM

Actually the A20 does 1080P as well for alot cheaper... :)

Forgot about that one. Still, the point remains that the $100-200 savings will be eaten up by the A2 to A20 upgrade to get the 'equivalent' 1080p of the 5000

[omen]

08-07-07, 08:13 PM

Samsung HAS to say 1080x30/60 for HD DVD . . UNTIL Toshiba delivers the 1080x24P support firmware update. This is due next month. The 5000 is not to be released until October . . . the month after the scheduled update. We will have an announcement from samsung with final specs AFTER Toshiiba proves they can deliver. That's all.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Flausch

08-08-07, 05:30 AM

']I'll believe it when I see it.
Me too. I really, really keep my fingers crossed that 24p will be possible for both formats.
To me this is the deal or no deal question.

mattmarsden

08-08-07, 05:35 AM

Yeah 24P for both or no buy for me. Ive got the LG which can do it for both and Im not willing to trade 24P for the other benefits

[omen]

08-08-07, 10:32 AM

But really, guys, how much of a big deal is 24p for HD-DVD? I mean, all you need to do is deinterlace the 3:2 to get the 24p anyway... Which for something like an HD-DVD disc where the cadence is constant and not changing all the time, is pretty rudimentary. Why does is it make it a "deal or no deal" situation? :confused:

I mean, I myself am wondering how gracefully the player (and the rest of my gear) would handle switching between formats (handshake concerns, going into menus when you want to switch, etc.) but that's the only thing I can think of.

TheHDMan

08-08-07, 11:43 AM

Yeah 24P for both or no buy for me. Ive got the LG which can do it for both and Im not willing to trade 24P for the other benefits

But the LG doesn't do PCM sound out HDMI....That's what made me take it back.

mattmarsden

08-08-07, 11:59 AM

But the LG doesn't do PCM sound out HDMI....That's what made me take it back.

I quite agree, it is a big limitation for me as well, but 24P I can't live without, but I can feed 5.1 analog in to my amp

TommyV

08-08-07, 02:40 PM

Did anyone else notice in those specs it says stereo and 7.1 channel audio outputs. Could this be the first HD DVD player with 7.1 analog audio outputs?

rnrgagne

08-08-07, 05:42 PM

Did anyone else notice in those specs it says stereo and 7.1 channel audio outputs. Could this be the first HD DVD player with 7.1 analog audio outputs?

Yes, there's pics of the outputs in one of the links above.

A/Vspec

08-08-07, 07:32 PM

']But really, guys, how much of a big deal is 24p for HD-DVD? I mean, all you need to do is deinterlace the 3:2 to get the 24p anyway... Which for something like an HD-DVD disc where the cadence is constant and not changing all the time, is pretty rudimentary. Why does is it make it a "deal or no deal" situation? :confused:

I mean, I myself am wondering how gracefully the player (and the rest of my gear) would handle switching between formats (handshake concerns, going into menus when you want to switch, etc.) but that's the only thing I can think of.

It is for those of us that have 24fps display devices and really that is it. We do not want any 3:2 conversion in are video path as we (those with the affliction) are sensitive to motion judder.

I would love to see my Sony Pearl in action taking a 1080P 24fps source and displaying is on my 130" 2.35:1 screen at 96fps with no motion judder. I hope this Samsung can do the vertical stretch as I will be first in line to buy it if it does....

TommyV

08-08-07, 07:48 PM

Yes, there's pics of the outputs in one of the links above.

ahh ok. well I still can't seem to find that link. . .

applebonker

08-08-07, 10:05 PM

Lee Stewart

08-08-07, 10:17 PM

Someone is going to have to help me out on this one. What happens for those of us without an HDMI 1.3 capable tv at this point? I am interested in checking this player out and probably running it through a newer Denon/Yamaha receiver (3808ci/3800) to decode the audio (assuming this will pass through the bitstream data). I am more concerned with the audio, as I always have been so that is my primary focus at this point. I'd be feeding a Mits WD-52725 for the moment (but the upgrade bug has already bitten, just need to save up money for all of these purchases). I will eventually have a 1080p/24fps tv, but how will this work with my current model?

24P really has nothing to do with an HDMI 1.3 HDTV as such. You need an HDTV that can refresh at either 72Hz or 120Hz AND that the HDTV can preform true frame rate mutliplication at either 3X or 5X (4X for some projectors). Right now there is one 72Hz - the Pioneer PDP (about $8000?) and a new Sony 52" LCD Bravia (120 Hz) LCD coming this month for $4000. This is a just beginning market for FPD. So few if any can use it today.

This link will explain what 24P gets rid of (besides interlacing):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine

applebonker

08-08-07, 10:48 PM

24P really has nothing to do with an HDMI 1.3 HDTV as such. You need an HDTV that can refresh at either 72Hz or 120Hz AND that the HDTV can preform true frame rate mutliplication at either 3X or 5X (4X for some projectors). Right now there is one 72Hz - the Pioneer PDP (about $8000?) and a new Sony 52" LCD Bravia (120 Hz) LCD coming this month for $4000. This is a just beginning market for FPD. So few if any can use it today.

This link will explain what 24P gets rid of (besides interlacing):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine

I follow that, and I understand the benefits of a 24fps display. I just wanted to make sure there wouldn't be any compatibility issues with an older set. My tv is only 720p, so I am assuming I could set the player to output 720p?

ckelly33

08-09-07, 12:04 AM

...

2. No playback of BD-R/RE discs.

Is this for certain? Link?

mschupp

08-09-07, 11:08 AM

Is this for certain? Link?

See the "My ONE and ONLY Reason for Favoring HD DVD" thread in the "HDTV Software Media discussion" forum.

The insiders thread also has information.

My current understanding:

1. Manufacturers do not have to support r/re media at all if they don't want to.

2. Players are not allowed to play BDMV content from r/re media unless they also fully support AACS from r/re (which apparently current players cannot do).

3. Players that support r/re media must support BDAV content.

The confusion appears to stem from a "grace period" during which this requirement (#2) was waived so that available media could be used for testing and development. The grace period has now expired and some of the manufacturers supposedly had to rush through changes to comply with the restrictions. They reportedly did so by disabling support for all r/re media.

There is still confusion on what is supported on which media. The really big question is why the consumers were not informed of this when they purchased burners and writable media (maybe it was in the fine print some where). Some people have reported distributing dozens to thousands of custom BDMV discs that now may or may not work in newer players. There is also some concern that firmware updates may add the restriction to players which currently do not have it.

It is also not clear if the currently available writable media can be used for BDMV content or if an as-yet unreleased media is required.

I suspect that this will be resolved in a way that allows BDMV on r/re media (based on the insider comments) but it may be some time before "official" information comes out.

Lee Stewart

08-09-07, 11:12 AM

I follow that, and I understand the benefits of a 24fps display. I just wanted to make sure there wouldn't be any compatibility issues with an older set. My tv is only 720p, so I am assuming I could set the player to output 720p?

You can set it to 720P or 1080i and view for yourself which looks better.

Lee Stewart

08-09-07, 11:13 AM

Is this for certain? Link?

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/officially-official/samsung-finally-announces-its-bd+up5000-blu+ray-hd-dvd-hybrid-player-plus-ht+bd2-blu+ray-home-theater-282313.php

Look under "Playable Media" in the chart

Traelin

08-09-07, 12:16 PM

All I care about WRT this player is that it outputs in 1080p for both formats...1080p/24 is preferred. Anything else is icing on the cake for me. But 1080p is a deal/!deal scenario for me.

Lee Stewart

08-09-07, 12:24 PM

All I care about WRT this player is that it outputs in 1080p for both formats...1080p/24 is preferred. Anything else is icing on the cake for me. But 1080p is a deal/!deal scenario for me.

Do you own a display that can do the frame rate X'r or are you planning to buy one with it in the next 6 mos?

dude2006

08-09-07, 02:53 PM

I heard from what I think is a knowledgeable source that any discs encoded with DTS HD MA would inherently have "regular" DTS HD for up to 7.1 (not the old 5.1 DTS "core" but actually DTS HD, which supports 7.1). If this is really the case, then I won't care if this player cannot do Master Audio, because as long as I could get DTS HD from the MA-encoded disc, I don't think my ears would be able to tell the difference.

Louisville S

08-09-07, 03:01 PM

dude2006

08-09-07, 03:24 PM

I feel the same way. As long I can get at least ONE lossless audio format from the player, i.e., Dolby TrueHD than I'll be happy.

Well the only problem with that is that some discs might only have the DTS HD or DTS HD MA, along with Dolby Digital 5.1. In other words, I'm sure some discs with DTS HD MA would not ALSO have Dolby TrueHD. So it would still be important for me to be able to get DTS HD on that disc

Louisville S

08-09-07, 03:55 PM

Well the only problem with that is that some discs might only have the DTS HD or DTS HD MA, along with Dolby Digital 5.1. In other words, I'm sure some discs with DTS HD MA would not ALSO have Dolby TrueHD. So it would still be important for me to be able to get DTS HD on that disc

Well when DVDs came out didn't they have the option of DD or DTS on some discs? Why would a HD-DVD only have DTS-HD MA, and not both DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD? My guess would be space issues on the HD-DVD due to the huge sizes of the lossless formats. If I keep waiting for the perfect player because this player doesn't have this format I'll never enjoy HD movies. I am sure the DTS-HD sounds awesome when selecting DTS-HD MA from a movie.

dude2006

08-09-07, 04:05 PM

Well when DVDs came out didn't they have the option of DD or DTS on some discs? Why would a HD-DVD only have DTS-HD MA, and not both DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD? My guess would be space issues on the HD-DVD due to the huge sizes of the lossless formats. If I keep waiting for the perfect player because this player doesn't have this format I'll never enjoy HD movies. I am sure the DTS-HD sounds awesome when selecting DTS-HD MA from a movie.

I hope you're right, but I thought that some discs from Fox, for example, has DTS HD MA but not Dolby True HD (just regular Dolby 5.1). I might be wrong, but it seems like if you couldn't get the full benefit of DTS HD, you would be stuck with "old" Dolby 5.1. Like I said I hope you're right because I want to get either the Sammy 5000 or the 2400 when they come out in 4Q