Wasn't really expecting it from Samsung.

Why not? They have had three or four generations of Universal (DVD-A and SACD) players previously. The 931, 841, etc.

Does anyone know approximately when in the 4th quarter this unit will be released? Is it more likely to come out in Oct., Nov. or Dec? This will be the perfect chance to upgrade my A1 to a better HD-DVD player and get into Blu-Ray all at once. I really hope it's as good as it sounds.

Does anyone know approximately when in the 4th quarter this unit will be released? Is it more likely to come out in Oct., Nov. or Dec? This will be the perfect chance to upgrade my A1 to a better HD-DVD player and get into Blu-Ray all at once. I really hope it's as good as it sounds.


I have a nagging suspicion that it will be closer to Christmas than October, maybe in an attempt to create a frenzy for the holidays. I hope I'm wrong though. If the 2400 comes out before the 5000, I think I'll get that for blu-ray and then a Toshiba HD-A35, which also should be coming out in October

Why not? They have had three or four generations of Universal (DVD-A and SACD) players previously. The 931, 841, etc.
Didn't realize that...

Most likely a stupid question: would BD-R/BD-RE not be considered BD-ROM via this player?

No - ROM and R/RE are different formats. Only the Panasonic, Pioneer and Sony S1 can deal with BD-R/RE - all others BD SAL's - nope

Does anyone know approximately when in the 4th quarter this unit will be released? Is it more likely to come out in Oct., Nov. or Dec? This will be the perfect chance to upgrade my A1 to a better HD-DVD player and get into Blu-Ray all at once. I really hope it's as good as it sounds.

So far we know this:

1400 - Sept.

2400 - Oct.

5000 - Q4

So far we know this:


5000 - Q4

My guess is that it has to come out by the end of October...since it doesn't support BD 1.1.

Ok, but is the "1.5 mbps core" equal the "old" DTS (the one that's been around for years), or is it the newer DTS HD (or HR, whatever it's called)?

My point is, let's say you have a blu-ray player that does only DTS HD/HR but not MA, and you try to play an MA disc. Would you be relegated to the "old" DTS, or DTS HD (the closest equivalent to MA, except that it's not "lossless"). I hope it's DTS HD

From dtsonline:

"DTS-HD has the ability to deliver very high data rates that can capture virtually all of the original audio information (DTS-HD High Resolution Audio) or ALL of the information (DTS-HD Master Audio)....

DTS-HD is capable of 7.1 channels that immerse the listener in a perfect movie or music experience...

To experience DTS-HD Audio, you can use your existing AV receiver with a new high definition Blu-ray or HD-DVD disc player with a DTS-HD decoder built-in. The new player can connect to your existing receiver with a S/PDIF or HDMI digital input, or 7.1 channel analog inputs. You can confidently play back high definition discs with DTS-HD or DTS Digital Surround through your existing DTS capable receiver, and experience audio at twice the resolution found on most standard DVD movies."

Personally, I am skeptical that only twice the resolution is really discernible to the human ear because I'm not bowled over by DD+, but true lossless audio is a must for me. Dolby TrueHD sounds awesome IMO on HD-DVD.

If the Samsung won't decode DTS-MA ( and I'm not entirely clear it will from the above blurb) then I will probably seriously consider waiting till there's a stand-alone BluRay player that will, because the wait for another Dual player could be too long for me and there is uncertainty over whether this soon to be released player will be upgradeable to play DTS-MA if it can't from the outset.

I do wish Samsung would clarify whether it will decode DTS-MA or not just so we know what to expect !

tausifs.

My guess is that it has to come out by the end of October...since it doesn't support BD 1.1.

Rule says has to be announced before 10/31 to stay 1.0 compliant. Anything announced AFTER 10/31 MUST be 1.1 compliant.

the new onkyo 875 and 905 as well as the new denon 3808ci and 4308ci is reported to over HDMI. at least the specs say they will.

So does the moderately priced 605.

Justin

So does the moderately priced 605.

Justin

Unfortunately it has no preouts or I would've ordered the 605 to supplement my Linn rack...

Rule says has to be announced before 10/31 to stay 1.0 compliant. Anything announced AFTER 10/31 MUST be 1.1 compliant.

Interesting. I had read where the BDA's 10/31 end-of-grace-period rule applies to players that are "launched" after 10/31, "released" after 10/31, and "made available" after 10/31, but this is the first time I've heard "announced" after 10/31.

Interesting. I had read where the BDA's 10/31 end-of-grace-period rule applies to players that are "launched" after 10/31, "released" after 10/31, and "made available" after 10/31, but this is the first time I've heard "announced" after 10/31.

They can annonunce a 1.1 player on 10/20. They can't announce a 1.0 player on 11/1.

Any player announced before 10/31 can of course be sold any time before or after 10/31.

If it helps - just sub the word "introduced" for announced.

That clear it up? ;)

Hmm, if those are the biggest drawbacks it does sound like a great player. I don't even understand how you can have PIP in a DVD so I don't care about that, and I don't plan to burn my own blu-ray movies (at most, I might burn blu-ray for data storage).

As far as potential lack for DTS MA, is there a consensus on whether this player would be able to send the signal via HDMI so that a receiver could process it? Because I got the Onkyo 905 and it supports DTS Master Audio

Finally, on the 1080p/24 issue, this site seems to contradict some posts on here:

7/30 Update:
Samsung responded to our inquiries, confirming that these new players will NOT be compatible with Picture-In-Picture based interactivity with Blu-ray Discs, and that the Duo HD player will output 1080p/24 with Blu-ray, but not HD DVD.

http://ultimateavmag.com/news/72607samsung/

Right now I am using 2 players - Tosh XA-2 and Sammy BDP 1000. I was thinking of getting the BDP1200, but once I heard about the 5000 I held off since the 5000 got me intrigued and I promised myself that the next upgrade would be a dual format player....IF this has the Reon upconverting chip I am 90% sure I'll be getting it.

As for BD interactivity - while it was cool on PoTC on my Sammy player it was very very slow to load and clunky. So, I'll wait to see what BD-J offers before putting a priority on Profile 1.1 player.

It's expensive, but the aesthetics of one player plus what looks like best of both formats at this time is appealing - 24fps is not a big deal for me. On my Pio FDH-1 I don't see any difference between either 24fps (using a Sony BDP 300) or 60fps or 1080i or 1080p (compared using BDP 1000, XA-2, Sony BDP 300). So I guess that boils down to your display as well....I am also planning to upgrade my display to a larger 1080p plasma this Fall (60 or 65 in, appox 10K budget) so 24fps may make a difference....but until I see a difference I will not consider it a deciding factor. So that is my 2 cents worth :)

Best of luck with what you decide.....

If it helps - just sub the word "introduced" for announced.

That clear it up?

No, maybe I'm dense, but it doesn't really clear it up for me.

Your reply to audiomixer implied that a manufacturer could simply announce (or introduce?) a 1.0 player any time before 10/31 and then delay manufacturing it and releasing it for sale to the public for the first time after 10/31 without 1.1 functionality. I had interpreted the terms "launched", "released", and "made available" to mean that any player sold to the public for the first time after 10/31 had to be 1.1 compliant- even if it had been "announced" weeks or months earlier.

Your apparent claim that a 1.0 player (like the BD-UP5000?) could be announced before 10/31 and then released for sale for the first time anytime after 10/31 was new information to me.

No, maybe I'm dense, but it doesn't really clear it up for me.

Your reply to audiomixer implied that a manufacturer could simply announce (or introduce?) a 1.0 player any time before 10/31 and then delay manufacturing it and releasing it for sale to the public for the first time after 10/31 without 1.1 functionality. I had interpreted the terms "launched", "released", and "made available" to mean that any player sold to the public for the first time after 10/31 had to be 1.1 compliant- even if it had been "announced" weeks or months earlier.

Your apparent claim that a 1.0 player (like the BD-UP5000?) could be announced before 10/31 and then released for sale for the first time anytime after 10/31 was new information to me.

From Wiki (Bluray Disc):

What is typically referred to as "Profile 1.1" (but is more formally known as "Final Standard Profile") adds a secondary video decoder (typically used for picture in picture), secondary audio (typically used for interactive audio and commentary) and capability of supporting a minimum of 256 MB of local storage (for storing audio/video and title updates). Compliance with this profile will be mandatory for player models introduced to the market after October 31, 2007, but existing products will be unaffected. As of July 24, 2007, only the Denon DVD-3800BDCI and DVD-2500BTCI have been announced as supporting this feature when they become available in the fall of 2007.

As long as it is announced/introduced before 10/31 - can be 1.0. They will not be able to announce/introduce a "new" 1.0 compliant player AFTER 10/31.

Guess you learn something new every day right?

Still reading your Wiki quote "introduced to the market" could mean released. From everything I've read before, any Blu Ray player released after Oct 31 will have to have the new java spec. If all they had to do was announce a player then there could be 1.0 players coming out for a long time.

Still reading your Wiki quote "introduced to the market" could mean released. From everything I've read before, any Blu Ray player released after Oct 31 will have to have the new java spec. If all they had to do was announce a player then there could be 1.0 players coming out for a long time.

I am having trouble as to why now 2 people don't understand what this means.

It's very simple. First you announce a new player - Press Release - then some time latter (immediately to 30, 60, 90, days, etc) the player is delivered to the retailers who make them available for purchase to the consumer.

You cannot announce a 1.0 only player on 11/1 because that means that release/introduction/delivery is AFTER 10/31.

You can announce a 1.0 only player on 10/31 and make it immediately available because the release/introduction/delivery is ON OR BEFORE 10/31. (announce at 8:00 AM - by 3:00PM - players are in retailers ready to buy - just an example)

I am having trouble as to why now 2 people don't understand what this means.

Sorry, perhaps I haven't been clear. I'll try to explain.

In post #507 in this thread audiomixer said of the BD-UP5000:
My guess is that it has to come out by the end of October...since it doesn't support BD 1.1.

In that post s/he seemed to saying that if the BD-UP5000 does indeed use profile 1.0, Samsung would have to release it for sale to the public on or before 10/31 in order to be compliant with the BDA standards.

In post #509 you quoted audiomixer's post and replied:
Rule says has to be announced before 10/31 to stay 1.0 compliant. Anything announced AFTER 10/31 MUST be 1.1 compliant.

Maybe it's just me, but in that post you seemed to be "correcting" what you perceived to be misinformation from audiomixer and appeared to be saying that because Samsung had simply announced the BD-UP5000 before the 10/31 deadline, they could still release a profile 1.0 player for sale sometime after the 10/31 deadline (say, anytime in Q4?) and still be in compliance with BDA standards.

My understanding of the BDA deadline was more like audiomixer's. I had interpreted the descriptions that I had seen before that a product "launched", "released", or "made available" to mean that any player sold to the public for the first time after 10/31 had to be 1.1 compliant- even if it had been "announced" days, weeks, or months earlier. You seem to be saying otherwise in your post #509 with your use of the word "announced". (And like TommyV, I can see where the word "introduced" could mean "announced" as you appear to take it to mean, or "released for sale to the public" as I understood it- ambiguous at best.)

So my question to you is, are you claiming that a manufacturer can release a profile 1.0 player for sale to the public for the first time after 10/31 and still be in compliance with BDA standards if they simply "announce" the player before 10/31, or was there some other point to your post #509?

Is that clearer?

Thanks for your help.

kelpie

So my question to you is, are you claiming that a manufacturer can release a profile 1.0 player for sale to the public for the first time after 10/31 and still be in compliance with BDA standards if they simply "announce" the player before 10/31, or was there some other point to your post #509?

The way you have worded your question - you now understand the 10/31 drop dead date.

Samsung has announced the 5000. They can release it on 11/5 and still be in compliance with the BDA's rule. Same thing I said in #509.

What people are thinking I believe, is that it has to be announced and made ready for sale by 10/31. It really doesn't matter either way because all 1.0 players will be available for sale on 11/1

Samsung has announced the 5000. They can release it on 11/5 and still be in compliance with the BDA's rule.

Interesting. Like I said, this is new information to me. I had understood otherwise. Thanks for making your point clear.

Regards,

kelpie

I am having trouble as to why now 2 people don't understand what this means.

It's very simple. First you announce a new player - Press Release - then some time latter (immediately to 30, 60, 90, days, etc) the player is delivered to the retailers who make them available for purchase to the consumer.

You cannot announce a 1.0 only player on 11/1 because that means that release/introduction/delivery is AFTER 10/31.

You can announce a 1.0 only player on 10/31 and make it immediately available because the release/introduction/delivery is ON OR BEFORE 10/31. (announce at 8:00 AM - by 3:00PM - players are in retailers ready to buy - just an example)

I understand what you said I just don't necessarily agree that it is a fact. When did wikipedia become the final word in anything having to do with next gen formats? Do you have any more reliable sources to support your rants?

I understand what you said I just don't necessarily agree that it is a fact. When did wikipedia become the final word in anything having to do with next gen formats? Do you have any more reliable sources to support your rants?

?

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/03/24/blu-ray-players-get-a-new-standard-set-of-features-this-october/

The Blu-ray Disc Association has mandated that all players of the format released after October 31 must adhere to a specific feature set that is currently not standard for today’s hardware. All Blu-ray Disc players after the fall date must support BD Java, a programming language for Blu-ray Disc media used mainly to deliver picture-in-picture for in-movie commentary and special features.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=6702

The Blu-ray Disc Association has mandated that all players of the format released after October 31 must adhere to a specific feature set that is currently not standard for today’s hardware. All Blu-ray Disc players after the fall date must support BD Java, a programming language for Blu-ray Disc media used mainly to deliver picture-in-picture for in-movie commentary and special features.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=6702

Great . . define "released"

You do realize you are splitting hairs don't you. If released means on dealer shelves how does this affect anything?

If released means on dealer shelves how does this affect anything?

Easy.

If "released" ("launched" or "made available") means on dealer shelves and available for sale to the public for the first time, then any player "released" after 10/31 would have to have profile 1.1 to be compliant with BDA standards.

How might this affect anything? Well, for example, under those circumstances a new player like the BD-UP5000 would either have to be "released" before 10/31 if it has profile 1.0 (audiomixer's point) or would have to be updated to profile 1.1 if released after 10/31 to be compliant with BDA standards- or the BDA standards would have to be changed (deadline delayed) once again.

Great . . define "released"

You do realize you are splitting hairs don't you. If released means on dealer shelves how does this affect anything?


HAHA! I'm splitting hairs? /ignore Lee Stewart

Easy.

If "released" ("launched" or "made available") means on dealer shelves and available for sale to the public for the first time, then any player "released" after 10/31 would have to have profile 1.1 to be compliant with BDA standards.

How might this affect anything? Well, for example, under those circumstances a new player like the BD-UP5000 would either have to be "released" before 10/31 if it has profile 1.0 (audiomixer's point) or would have to be updated to profile 1.1 if released after 10/31 to be compliant with BDA standards- or the BDA standards would have to be changed (deadline delayed) once again.

No update available - it is a hardware releated problem. No BD SAL can be "fixed" by a firmware update to make it 1.1 compliant.

And announced will do the same thing. Because to your stringent wording, if something went wrong with the manufacturering process of the 5000 and it could only be made available on 11/2 instead of 10/30 - then no 5000's could be sold (???)

No update available - it is a hardware releated problem. No BD SAL can be "fixed" by a firmware update to make it 1.1 compliant.

I didn't say that it could be updated with firmware. Dunno, but I wouldn't be surprised if Samsung would have to change the hardware to make the BD-UP5000 profile 1.1 compliant.

And announced will do the same thing. Because to your stringent wording, if something went wrong with the manufacturering process of the 5000 and it could only be made available on 11/2 instead of 10/30 - then no 5000's could be sold (???)

I didn't say that they couldn't be sold either. By the more stringent wording, it would only mean that a profile 1.0 player released after 10/31 wouldn't be compliant with BDA requirements- similar to how (if I'm not mistaken?) the LG combo player wasn't compliant with HD DVD standards when it was released (and sold).

Of course, according to your lenient wording, the BD-UP5000 could finally be released Q2 2010 as a profile 1.0 player and still meet BDA standards...

I didn't say that it could be updated with firmware. Dunno, but I wouldn't be surprised if Samsung would have to change the hardware to make the BD-UP5000 profile 1.1 compliant.

If you buy the 5000 when it streets in it's current configuration - it will never be 1.1 compliant. If in April 2008 Samsung announces the 5001 which IS 1.1 compliant - all set. Samsung said . . "No 1.1 compliant players till 2008" Read back in thread for PC World article.


I didn't say that they couldn't be sold either. By the more stringent wording, it would only mean that a profile 1.0 player released after 10/31 wouldn't be compliant with BDA requirements- similar to how (if I'm not mistaken?) the LG combo player wasn't compliant with HD DVD standards when it was released (and sold).

1.1 (mandatory November 2007) - that means that if Phillips announced and released a player after 11/1 that was NOT 1.1 compliant - they can't use the Bluray Disc Logo on the machine because the BDA won't authorize it. It doesn't meet the specs of BD. They can say it will play BD's with some caveats but it will not have the all important logo.

That LG DF player is the same thing - it is not a licensed HD DVD player because it has no ethernet connection :

This product fully supports standard Blu-ray Disc™ and can play high-definition audio/visual content from HD DVD discs. This product is not able to support interactive “iHD” features available from many HD DVD discs.

There is no HD DVD Logo on the BH100. They bought the HD DVD drive but that is all.

Of course, according to your lenient wording, the BD-UP5000 could finally be released Q2 2010 as a profile 1.0 player and still meet BDA standards...

Yep - it's how you define "release" , "introduce" or "announce"

The intent of the grace period is that players released (i.e. first shipped) to the market after 10/31 must be 1.1 or 2.0 compliant. It has nothing to do with when something is announced.

The intent of the grace period is that players released (i.e. first shipped) to the market after 10/31 must be 1.1 or 2.0 compliant. It has nothing to do with when something is announced.

Thank you for the clarification - (he is a BD insider.)

So all 1.0 players will have to first ship on or before 10/31. I stand corrected

So then, that means the 5000 must ship before the end of october. Sweet! I don't care about the PIP gobbly goop. I do care about future proofness which for me is a dual format and HDMI 1.3 player that will nicely up convert SD DVDs.

Justin

So that player will already be "obsolete" by the time it comes out ? I know I exagerate a bit by using that word, but still, makes you wonder what's going to happen when the "full featured" BR discs are put through the paces and the screen proudly displays : "sorry, this feature is not available to you sucker, go buy another player for that". No wonder people are sitting on the fence...

Right now, I am on the fence with this one. On the one hand, this is exactly what I have been waiting for (I am so sick of this format war and it's 3rd grade level infighting...). I have never owned a Sammy, so I can't rely on past experience with build quality, reliability, etc. When the player is released, I am going to monitor every review I can, most notably those on Audioholics, Secrets, and end-user reports here. As for the 1.1 stuff (or lack thereof), as I understand it the only benefit is PIP. This is a neat feature to have, but in all honesty I have never used IME on HD-DVD either; my main interest is watching the movie, being able to navigate the menus, and play back things like trailers and documentaries. Even moreso, I couldn't care less about 2.0 at all (the player won't be hooked up to the internet). I am also looking at the new Onkyo, and the comment they made about developing a universal solution. Bottom line: If the Sammy gets good reviews on build quality, PQ and playback reliability (esp compared to stand-alone players), I may very well bite. It will not be the last player I ever buy, and if I feel the upgrade bug (yea, right, if... ;) ) I will get a Denon, or Pioneer Elite dual in a couple of years. Besides, I love the looks of the unit (a lot more than the Onkyo)...

Right now, I am on the fence with this one. On the one hand, this is exactly what I have been waiting for (I am so sick of this format war and it's 3rd grade level infighting...). I have never owned a Sammy, so I can't rely on past experience with build quality, reliability, etc. When the player is released, I am going to monitor every review I can, most notably those on Audioholics, Secrets, and end-user reports here. As for the 1.1 stuff (or lack thereof), as I understand it the only benefit is PIP. This is a neat feature to have, but in all honesty I have never used IME on HD-DVD either; my main interest is watching the movie, being able to navigate the menus, and play back things like trailers and documentaries. Even moreso, I couldn't care less about 2.0 at all (the player won't be hooked up to the internet). I am also looking at the new Onkyo, and the comment they made about developing a universal solution. Bottom line: If the Sammy gets good reviews on build quality, PQ and playback reliability (esp compared to stand-alone players), I may very well bite. It will not be the last player I ever buy, and if I feel the upgrade bug (yea, right, if... ;) ) I will get a Denon, or Pioneer Elite dual in a couple of years. Besides, I love the looks of the unit (a lot more than the Onkyo)...


You basically just summed up EXACTLY how I'm feeling about this player. As of right now, I fully intend to pick it up if the reviews are favorable and recommend it as a great solution for playback of HD-DVD, Blu-Ray and upconverted DVDs(PiP and internet connectivity don't interest me one bit). :cool:

Boy isn't that the truth. Is anyone out there even moderately concerned with actually watching the movie or concert? If I want internet content or the likes I'll use my freakin computer. I get PIP if you're trying to monitor a couple of live sports games but what the hell would you do with PIP when watching a movie - and why?

It would be nice to get 1080p/24 with HD-DVD but I'm not dissatisfied with 1080i/60 right now so that's not a biggie and it would just mean that I'd buy the Blu-ray if a movie was available in both..
I'm more concerned with the audio capabilities - hopefully it has great DAC's & bass management to make use of the 7.1 analog outputs - then I wouldn't have to upgrade my pre-pro for DTS MA and the other HD audio formats.

Can you really blame people for wanting to take advantage of ALL the capabilities on these new formats and not just some of them?

Can you really blame people for wanting to take advantage of ALL the capabilities on these new formats and not just some of them?


No, but again not everyone cares about things like PiP or internet features. Some, like myself, just want a player that provides the best PQ and sound for HD, Blu Ray and upconverted DVD. If this unit does all that as promised I'm sold and won't care if it's missing the stuff I'll never use.

I was very excited about this player. It is mind blowing to me that Samsung would go and release this player without meeting 1.1. One hopes it can at least transmit DTS-MA and TrueHD over the HDMI connection, which is something the BD-P1200 can't do.

What exactly is profile 1.0 and 1.1. I have been really excited about this player for some time. Some features I do care wheras some features I dont care. I have been holding off buying either player for so long, I feel like I am going through withdrawls. I want to experience HD DVD or Blu- Ray in my house so badly. I may just give in to buyind a HD-A20 for now.

What exactly is profile 1.0 and 1.1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Profiles

but what the hell would you do with PIP when watching a movie - and why?

I don't understand the problem some people have with this.

a. It's optional - you don't need to watch the movie with PiP.
b. When you enable PiP, you are doing so because you have watched the movie normally, and now want to watch it with scene-specific video commentary.

Think of audio commentaries. Why aren't people running around saying "why would I want to listen to the director when I am watching a movie?" Well, that's because you are interested in scene specific commentary on the making of the movie. Same principle. PiP is an enhanced commentary - with audio and video. It's super good.

Really it shouldn't matter if the player can do 1.1 or not, for me the deal breaker is like someone before me mentioned whether this player can carry the sound formats thru HDMI....if I will soon get a new pre-amp/processor with the HDMI 1.3 wouldn't I want a compliant disc player so I can take advantage?

So that player will already be "obsolete" by the time it comes out ? I know I exagerate a bit by using that word, but still, makes you wonder what's going to happen when the "full featured" BR discs are put through the paces and the screen proudly displays : "sorry, this feature is not available to you sucker, go buy another player for that". No wonder people are sitting on the fence...

People might as well just sit on the fence until profile 2.0 comes out then... 1.1 is short lived too... It is a shame that Blu-Ray did not have all this ready from the very first player. I can say that having a 1.0 Blu-Ray player and enjoying the movies now is much better than waiting around for a player that can do a PIP thing that on 99 out of 100 movies I could care less about.

If this new Samsung is anything close to what I think it will be, my HD-XA1 and BD-P1200 are out of the main system.

So that player will already be "obsolete" by the time it comes out ? I know I exagerate a bit by using that word, but still, makes you wonder what's going to happen when the "full featured" BR discs are put through the paces and the screen proudly displays : "sorry, this feature is not available to you sucker, go buy another player for that". No wonder people are sitting on the fence...

That's why you buy the PS3. It has all the hardware needed to meet all BD specs. There is no guarantee Sony will make the necessary updates, but I think it's pretty much a given IMO due to owner pressure and Sony's willingness to listen up to this point.

Ok folks, here is a new shocker:

http://www.pcinpact.com/actu/news/37457-Samsung-BluRay-HDDVD-platine-hybride-prix.htm


La platine hybride en question est baptisée BD-UP5000. Samsung vient de l'exhiber lors de l'IFA Previews de Hambourg....La BD-UP5000 devrait donc arriver sur le marché européen en octobre ou novembre 2007, elle sera entièrement compatible avec les formats HD-DVD et Blu-Ray ainsi qu'avec leur système de navigation respectif, HDi et Java. Elle aura aussi une interface réseau, et sera parfaitement en mesure d'envoyer de la vidéo via une interface HDMI, en 1080p Full HD.

Et la bonne nouvelle, c'est son prix. Cette platine coûtera 545 dollars

Quickly translated:

... Samsung just presented it at the IFA previews in Hamburg....The BD-UP5000 should arrive in the European market in October or November 2007.... It will cost $545

IFA has not started yet?!?!?

Update: This English article might make more sense:
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/07/11/samsung_400euro_blu-ray/

Also, this looks to be yet more disinformation. This player will be about $1000.

I believe the price is incorrect; other sources have said approx $1000. I think one article somewhere quoted a premium over the standard BD only model, which was picked up by a lot of internet publications as the total price.

Info from Gizmodo:

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/grope/hands+on-samsungs-bd+up5000-hybrid-hd-dvd-and-blu+ray-player-verdict-so-far-the-best-282569.php

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/5953/bdup5000doordetailbc4.jpg

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3070/medium898944133de6fcfe6gh2.jpg

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/268/medium898944605f9ad6504dg7.jpg

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/637/medium899799138ec9dddcahj4.jpg

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/7920/medium8997997288983205bbn7.jpg

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/8440/medium89980050409d646e4oq1.jpg

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/1238/smallbd2.jpg

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/4540/samsungbdchartry1.jpg

That is a very nice looking player. I think I will order one of these when they become available. I just love the high gloss black.

I believe the price is incorrect; other sources have said approx $1000. I think one article somewhere quoted a premium over the standard BD only model, which was picked up by a lot of internet publications as the total price.

Could be 545 Euros, but even that`s only $750 US

I don't understand the problem some people have with this.

a. It's optional - you don't need to watch the movie with PiP.
b. When you enable PiP, you are doing so because you have watched the movie normally, and now want to watch it with scene-specific video commentary.

Think of audio commentaries. Why aren't people running around saying "why would I want to listen to the director when I am watching a movie?" Well, that's because you are interested in scene specific commentary on the making of the movie. Same principle. PiP is an enhanced commentary - with audio and video. It's super good.

Well I`m not arguing that some people don`t like those features I`m just saying that in my world they aren`t something I can live without.

Unless someone else comes out with a similar player that can also do SACD before hand, this unit will end up in my rack.

Info from Gizmodo:

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/7920/medium8997997288983205bbn7.jpg

Funny looks like they threw in a pic of the 1200.

2 quick questions:

1. Does this output DTS-HD/TrueHD over BitStream?
2. Does this use the scaler that does NOT have MacroBlocking issues?

Funny looks like they threw in a pic of the 1200.

No, I think it's the 1400 or the 2400...

Quickly translated:... Samsung just presented it at the IFA previews in Hamburg....The BD-UP5000 should arrive in the European market in October or November 2007.... It will cost $545

545 pounds is 1090 dollars

And to think I was tempted to jump.

An SRP of 1k is wayyy too much.

If I could pick this thing up for even 600$, I'd of jumped...

Has there been any iron-clad, no wiggle-room answer on whether or not this player will pass DTS-HD Master Audio to a compatible reciever for decoding? Let's ignore, for a moment, the issue of the disc's authoring allowing it or not.

And to think I was tempted to jump.

An SRP of 1k is wayyy too much.

If I could pick this thing up for even 600$, I'd of jumped...

It's not cheap for sure. But when you look at the new Denon "Blu-ray only" player comming out at $2K...

After today's announcements by Paramount/Dreamworks and FOX i'm betting these will start selling like hotcakes!!

After today's announcements by Paramount/Dreamworks and FOX i'm betting these will start selling like hotcakes!!That's the same thing I was thinking.

After today's announcements by Paramount/Dreamworks and FOX i'm betting these will start selling like hotcakes!!

I second that. I bought a PS3 recently and today's news makes me wonder if I should return it and wait for this dual-format player. I have a lot of thinkin' to do now. I thought HD DVD was near dead but that certainly isn't the case now.

I second that. I bought a PS3 recently and today's news makes me wonder if I should return it and wait for this dual-format player. I have a lot of thinkin' to do now. I thought HD DVD was near dead but that certainly isn't the case now.

After playing Madden 08 on both consoles I'll be selling my PS3 for a 360 Elite/BDP-5000 combo. :D

2 quick questions:

1. Does this output DTS-HD/TrueHD over BitStream?
2. Does this use the scaler that does NOT have MacroBlocking issues?

1. I don't think anyone knows but Samsung
2. It has one of the better scalers available right now. I have the BD-P1200 which uses the same scaler and I have never seen any Macroblocking.

I second that. I bought a PS3 recently and today's news makes me wonder if I should return it and wait for this dual-format player. I have a lot of thinkin' to do now. I thought HD DVD was near dead but that certainly isn't the case now.Even with the Paramount flip-flop the studios supporting Blu-ray do about 2x the revenue on recent rentals as those supporting HD DVD. This move may push out HD DVD's demise by a few months, but it certainly doesn't mean your PS3 purchase was ill-advised!

Even with the Paramount flip-flop the studios supporting Blu-ray do about 2x the revenue on recent rentals as those supporting HD DVD. This move may push out HD DVD's demise by a few months, but it certainly doesn't mean your PS3 purchase was ill-advised!

A few months? LOL


ITS JUST A FLESH WOUND!

OK, Tick and Tock, keep that stuff out of this thread. You blue and red zealots have plenty of room elsewhere to do your threadcrapping.

OK, Tick and Tock, keep that stuff out of this thread. You blue and red zealots have plenty of room elsewhere to do your threadcrapping.

Well the point is that this player is WAY more relevant now than it was a few days ago.

The player looks very coooool....I especially like the 7.1 analog output....Didn't have time to read all the posts.....but any firm word on dts/ma.....??? I see the spec. sheet mentions dts-hd...but damn...we've all been waiting for the 'ma' feature....it would be a shame if it isn't included....

so the only feature this is really lacking is native HD DVD 1080p 24fps. I'm guessing it will have it when it comes out (or via fw upgrade when Tosh updates theirs).

so PLEASE Samsung, release that swanky new receiver you showed in Germany!

so the only feature this is really lacking is native HD DVD 1080p 24fps. I'm guessing it will have it when it comes out (or via fw upgrade when Tosh updates theirs).

so PLEASE Samsung, release that swanky new receiver you showed in Germany!

I read in an article somewhere a response by Samsung that stated this player will definitely do 1080p/24 with HD-DVD

The player looks very coooool....I especially like the 7.1 analog output.....

I dont even have 7.1 analong inputs.

And my subwoofer died last weekend.

The next year is going to be expensive for me hardware wise!

Well the point is that this player is WAY more relevant now than it was a few days ago.

I agree 100%. I was already sold on getting this player, but the Paramount announcement along with the Fox Blu Ray fall line-up(Die Hard Trilogy, Independence Day, Mr. and Mrs. Smith, etc) makes it even more attractive. :cool:

Is it really worth $1000 for the BD-UP5000, vs. just buying one unit for HD-DVD and another for Blu-ray?

Is it really worth $1000 for the BD-UP5000, vs. just buying one unit for HD-DVD and another for Blu-ray?

Do you really expect this thing to street for $1000?

I expect something in the $750ish range.

Do you really expect this thing to street for $1000?

I expect something in the $750ish range.
Sorry, let me re-phrase my question:

Is it really worth $750ish for the BD-UP5000, vs. just buying one unit for HD-DVD and another for Blu-ray?

Sorry, let me re-phrase my question:

Is it really worth $750ish for the BD-UP5000, vs. just buying one unit for HD-DVD and another for Blu-ray?

Since you put it that way, yes. It will still have value if one of the formats goes away, and it should do an excellent job at upscaling sd dvd's.

It will still have value if one of the formats goes away...
But if you had one BD player and one HD-DVD player, wouldn't you be in the same place?

it should do an excellent job at upscaling sd dvd's.
Again, wouldn't having separate units (at a lower cost) do the same job of upscaling?

Not trying to pick a fight, just trying to justify the additional cost over buying separates. :)

But if you had one BD player and one HD-DVD player, wouldn't you be in the same place?


Again, wouldn't having separate units (at a lower cost) do the same job of upscaling?

Not trying to pick a fight, just trying to justify the additional cost over buying separates. :)


Maybe I'm not sure what you mean, because it seems clear to me. If you buy an HDDVD player and BR player seperately and BR wins the HD DVD players becomes a boat anchor, and vice versa. I'm not sure you can buy a reon-equipped HDDVD player and reon-equipped BR player for under $750ish. Don't forget the fact that you'd need a second digital audio cable and HDMI cable for 2 units.

Sorry, let me re-phrase my question:

Is it really worth $750ish for the BD-UP5000, vs. just buying one unit for HD-DVD and another for Blu-ray?

For me it is... I plan on this replacing the Toshiba hd-dvd and Panasonic bluray players we are currently using... One less component in the rack (less cables, etc)... in fact, if it wasn't for the fact that I still listen to dvd audio and sacd on occasion, this would also be replacing the Oppo 970 DVD transport!

I'm not sure you can buy a reon-equipped HDDVD player and reon-equipped BR player for under $750ish. Don't forget the fact that you'd need a second digital audio cable and HDMI cable for 2 units.You're right, a reon equipped HD DVD player is the XA2 (now); and reon equipped BD is the Sammy 1200; I think the Tosh is streeting for 500 or so, and the Sammy about the same. Plus, you don't have to worry about a second (or third, if you needed a sep upscaling DVD player) HDMI input, etc. I have three HDMI inputs on my receiver and all are in use; I'm interested in this player for future use in my main theater (house getting built) to keep, to allow more flexibility.

If you think about it in terms of the real world, you don't buy two cars to get to work; you don't buy two toothbrushes to brush your teeth; you don't buy two of anything to do the same job. One is sufficient. There is no reason the general public should be expected to buy two HDM players to watch movies. Besides, the other points of extra cabling, extra rack space, etc., are all valid.

Doug

a reon equipped HD DVD player is the XA2 (now); and reon equipped BD is the Sammy 1200...
Oh, okay... I see.

I'm in a different boat, since my HDTV can only handle 1080i, not 1080p. That means I can get a $240 Toshiba HD-A2 now plus a BD player later for under $700ish.

Again, different story. :)

you don't buy two cars to get to work; you don't buy two toothbrushes to brush your teeth; you don't buy two of anything to do the same job.
Okay, I give. :p

One of the main selling points for me is the 7.1 analog inputs as it means I won't have to upgrade my Pioneer Elite VSX-47TX Ultra2 receiver(which I still love as much as the day I bought it). That along with the Reon chip and the convenience of a "do it all" single player make it the logical choice for me. I just wish the thing would hurry up and become available because the wait is killing me.

I want one box, not two. And I only want to have to worry about 1 HDMI connection, 1 set of 7.1 analog interconnects, rack space for one unit, etc. I want one player to rule them all. ;) I'm starting to think that Samsung is going to sell a ton of these, especially if it works well right out of the shoot, and if there's no other competition in site. I'll be honest too. I'm not a Samsung fan, but this player, if executed well, simply will be too good to pass up.

agreed

I want one box, not two. And I only want to have to worry about 1 HDMI connection, 1 set of 7.1 analog interconnects, rack space for one unit, etc. I want one player to rule them all. ;) I'm starting to think that Samsung is going to sell a ton of these, especially if it works well right out of the shoot, and if there's no other competition in site. I'll be honest too. I'm not a Samsung fan, but this player, if executed well, simply will be too good to pass up.

I agree also.

I'm a likely buyer unless someone comes out with one that also does SACD & DVD-A - maybe at Cedia? Apparently Denon has a few more products to announce there and I'm sure they're not the only ones.

I'm in a different boat, since my HDTV can only handle 1080i, not 1080p.

What does that have to do with anything? The Reon is needed to go from 480i to 1080i....and does so much better than the processor in the HD-A2 or A-20.

Hate to burst anyone's bubble, but no $750 player is going to have a big impact on the market. If it were $250, I'd agree. The format war would be over. But J6P will never buy a $750 player--he'll stay with his $49 DVD thingy.:)

What does that have to do with anything? The Reon is needed to go from 480i to 1080i....and does so much better than the processor in the HD-A2 or A-20.
Oh, I didn't know that. I thought the Reon chip only came into play with 1080p TVs.

What does that have to do with anything? The Reon is needed to go from 480i to 1080i....and does so much better than the processor in the HD-A2 or A-20.

It has been mentioned that the Anchor Bay chip in the A-20 has better scaling than the Reon but the deinterlacing is better on the Reon.

I wish samsung would give a firm answer on the 24p. Guess they must be waiting fr the spec to be finalised until announcing it.

But if you had one BD player and one HD-DVD player, wouldn't you be in the same place?


Again, wouldn't having separate units (at a lower cost) do the same job of upscaling?

Not trying to pick a fight, just trying to justify the additional cost over buying separates. :)

I think there is value in having both in one box - I kow I am spece limited in my rack and would like a one box solution. Further, my SS processor only has one 5.1 analog input (and no HDMI solution yet), so having a combo player save me from having to purchase a good quality 5.1 switcher.

I too prefer the one box solution just for simplicity of use purposes. But there is one potential benefit of two units, if one craps out then at least you can watch the other until replaced or repaired.
joe

Sorry, let me re-phrase my question:

Is it really worth $750ish for the BD-UP5000, vs. just buying one unit for HD-DVD and another for Blu-ray?

First of all, I doubt very much that this player will retail for $750 when it comes out. With the MSRP at $1000 then it will probably be around $850-900. It will take quite some time to drop to $700 or $600, even then it is still way too high for J6P, but not for HT freaks like us. I would predict that within a year it might drop to $500-600 and maybe there will be other universals that will come out with a decent price tag. It looks like a sweet unit!

Well for me I couldn't wait so I just got into two units for $550. HD-A2 for $200 and Sony BDP-S300 for $350 with their Sony credit card $150 credit offer. At those prices I could sell them on eBay and not loose much when the BD-UP5000 comes down in price. I started with the A2 and loved the picture and sound so much that I had to get the Blu-ray player as well.

And NO, people shouldn't have to buy two players but we have this stupid format war and it won't end until these universal players get affordable. Neither side is going anywhere.

but no $750 player is going to have a big impact on the market.

I will disagree. :) Go ahead and look at the previous thread traffic here for other players in this price range. Denon universal players, the Pio 59AVi and 79AVi, etc. We may be enthusiasts and early adopters here, but if Samsung sells half as many players as I think they will, other manufacturers will definitely take note.

Does this Samsung player have a zoom feature?

Does this Samsung player have a zoom feature?

Okay, I'll bite. Why would it need a Zoom feature?

For those with 2.35:1 systems.

Okay, I'll bite. Why would it need a Zoom feature?

For those special NC-17 occasions of course. :D

Ah... both very good answers!;)

Maybe I'm not sure what you mean, because it seems clear to me. If you buy an HDDVD player and BR player seperately and BR wins the HD DVD players becomes a boat anchor, and vice versa. I'm not sure you can buy a reon-equipped HDDVD player and reon-equipped BR player for under $750ish. Don't forget the fact that you'd need a second digital audio cable and HDMI cable for 2 units.


The big advantage of separate HD players is that if one craps out the other one still functions. If the dual format player craps out you're SOOL :rolleyes:

The big advantage of separate HD players is that if one craps out the other one still functions. If the dual format player craps out you're SOOL :rolleyes:

Two points, though. If one of your players craps out, you cannot watch (insert whatever percentage here) of movies. Secondly, since when has this ever been a problem in the past. Do people normally keep a second player on hand now?

I just can't seem to make this argument work for me, as sensible as it sounds.

Doug

The big advantage of separate HD players is that if one craps out the other one still functions. If the dual format player craps out you're SOOL :rolleyes:


Yeah, maybe you've had bad luck with dvd players? I can't remember the last piece of unreliable HT equipment I've purchased. Most time we have to deal with bugs of some sort but most electronics these days will live a reasonable life once they make it past 10 or 20 hours of use.

I must admit, I've had my DVD player a long, LONG time (it's a a Sony DVP-S530P :eek:). Never had a problem with it.

No doubt that the BD-UP5000 is tempting... it's just that it's gonna be pretty darn expensive. Hard (for me) to justify that cost.

Two points, though. If one of your players craps out, you cannot watch (insert whatever percentage here) of movies. Secondly, since when has this ever been a problem in the past. Do people normally keep a second player on hand now?

I just can't seem to make this argument work for me, as sensible as it sounds.

Doug

Exactly. When I had my Pioneer 59AVi, I never kept another DVD player on hand for back-up. If something goes wrong with a player you either wait for it to get fixed or go buy another one.

Maybe i'm in if the 5000 has analog 5.1 out and 1080/24 for hd dvd can be updated........ :rolleyes:

Maybe i'm in if the 5000 has analog 5.1 out and 1080/24 for hd dvd can be updated........ :rolleyes:


I believe the 5000 does have the analog outs...not sure about 1080p 24 for HD DVD though. The unit does have a LAN connection....so I guess anything is possible.

What are the analog 5.1 outs used for? Is that used if you don't have an HDMI receiver? Or ???

What are the analog 5.1 outs used for? Is that used if you don't have an HDMI receiver? Or ???

Correct. If you're amp has 5.1 analog in, all sound formats the 5000 can decode can be heard via analog. You don't need a new receiver or amp with hdmi 1.3. :)

You don't need a new receiver or amp with hdmi 1.3. :)
What about 1.2 ?

Maybe i'm in if the 5000 has analog 5.1 out and 1080/24 for hd dvd can be updated........ :rolleyes:

I think someone said it has 7.1 analog outs. I've seen pictures of the back of this unit somewhere on the net.

Doug

Do you really expect this thing to street for $1000?

I expect something in the $750ish range.

You are overly-optimistic. No way this thing streets for $750.

The Samsung PR said $1049, why the hell would they drop the price $300 KNOWING how much more relevant this player just became. It will not street for $1049, but there is no way it streets for $750.

I was seriously considering this dual player. But the 'dual' price is beginning to bother me now. Given that I already have a HD-DVD player as many do, its getting harder to justify spending the equivalent of 2 HD players, if it streets for not much less than MSRP. I might just go for the bd-p2400 which is significantly less. It won't be too much bother for me to chop and change the connections on my AV setup the way it is, so why not I ask myself ? Functionally, there will be no compromise.

I must admit, I've had my DVD player a long, LONG time (it's a a Sony DVP-S530P :eek:). Never had a problem with it.

No doubt that the BD-UP5000 is tempting... it's just that it's gonna be pretty darn expensive. Hard (for me) to justify that cost.

I think to be able to have both formats that the street price will probably be pretty to close to costs of separate BD and HDDVD. If you can get the features that are important for you on separate players for less and can deal with the extra connection issues then that's the way to go.
joe

.....not to mention that most already own one format, so they're paying for form factor and the other format.

Some people really don't want 2 players or only have one set of analog inputs on their receiver that they don't want to replace. I think this will appeal to (ht enthusiast)fence sitters too who have not jumped in yet.

^^
count me as a fence sitter. this dual player is exactly what i have been waiting for. (either this or an end to the war).

Maybe i'm in if the 5000 has analog 5.1 out and 1080/24 for hd dvd can be updated........ :rolleyes:


It has 7.1 analog outs(as shown in the pics on page 19) which is an even bigger selling point than just 5.1 analog.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/officially-official/samsung-finally-announces-its-bd+up5000-blu+ray-hd-dvd-hybrid-player-plus-ht+bd2-blu+ray-home-theater-282313.php

On the HD-DVD side, how do the specs of the BD-UP5000 compare to the specs of the Toshiba HD-XA2?

this dual player is exactly what i have been waiting for.
Yeah, me too. I just really wish it were a tad less expensive.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/officially-official/samsung-finally-announces-its-bd+up5000-blu+ray-hd-dvd-hybrid-player-plus-ht+bd2-blu+ray-home-theater-282313.php

BD-P2400 ships in "October 2007", BD-P5000 ships in Q4 2007. I think a shipping date in November is more likely than not. Or even December? Can't wait that long.

although Nov. or Dec. is a long wait I am sick and tired of this format war! i dont have the space for 2 players. i have been sitting on the fence since the beginning. looked like sony was starting to roll toshiba in the dirt and now this announcement from paramount. this will not be ending anytime soon. did i say i was sick of it. yes, the pricing is a bit high, but this is the player that will be sitting in my rack come christmas time to go along with my pio 150fd.

I think a shipping date in November is more likely than not. Or even December?
Bummer.

Yea, but if it doesn't ship until November or December, doesn't that require that the blu part be 1.1 complient (a good thing)?

BD-P2400 ships in "October 2007", BD-P5000 ships in Q4 2007. I think a shipping date in November is more likely than not. Or even December? Can't wait that long.

It has to ship NLT 10/31/07 because it is a Profile 1.0 player.

are there any rumours about a European version yet of the Sumsung 5000?

It has to ship NLT 10/31/07 because it is a Profile 1.0 player.
What does that mean?

NLT=no later than, I think.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think that after that date, any NEW machine being introduced will have to have specifications that this one does not.

No, I mean what is a "Profile 1.0 player"? :)

The big advantage of separate HD players is that if one craps out the other one still functions. If the dual format player craps out you're SOOL :rolleyes:

And since we are talking about Samsung here there is a very high probability that this will happen!

1.0 vs 1.1 Blu-ray

Go to the Blu-ray Player Forum and see the sticky on the different BR Standards.

Yeah, me too. I just really wish it were a tad less expensive.


i agree but what i wish more is that it would become available before Oct. i've got an ISF calibrator coming in oct. and would really love to have this by then.

i agree but what i wish more is that it would become available before Oct. i've got an ISF calibrator coming in oct. and would really love to have this by then.

You might want to 'borrow' a BDP-2400 from Best Buy for his visit. :D

Ahhh, screw it. I'm gonna go for an HD-A2 for now.... then buy a combo unit once prices on them drop a tad. Decision made. :)

Good choice!

NLT=no later than, I think.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think that after that date, any NEW machine being introduced will have to have specifications that this one does not.

Correct on all accounts.

And since we are talking about Samsung here there is a very high probability that this will happen!


And exactly what are you basing that on? I used to have a negative opinion of Samsung as well, but in recent years they've really turned it out as far as their electronics go. I've had a Samsung cell phone for almost 2 years now and it's probably the most trouble-free phone I've ever owned. I have no reason to believe the 5000 will be a problematic machine and it will almost certainly perform better than my Toshiba A1 HD-DVD player(which I can't wait to get rid of).

Ahhh, screw it. I'm gonna go for an HD-A2 for now.... then buy a combo unit once prices on them drop a tad. Decision made. :)

Thats what I did, but I bought a cheaper priced A1.

one format that costs less to enjoy now, enjoy both formats later.

will this player be able to DECODE TrueHD, DTS-HD and DTS-MA?

I recently purchased a pioneer BH94 thinking that the BD camp had this won. After the
Paramount bomb I have returned the BH94 TO WAIT FOR THE 5000.I hope Samsung will
realize that the 5000 is the player to have an speed up its release !

I recently purchased a pioneer BH94 thinking that the BD camp had this won. After the
Paramount bomb I have returned the BH94 TO WAIT FOR THE 5000.I hope Samsung will
realize that the 5000 is the player to have an speed up its release !

Thanks for the heads up...Erick Hansen, what a moron! I read the article, he need to relax! There are going to be two formats for a while, pounding your fist in the media make him look desperate.

i dont know if anybody has seen it but its being listed at amazon for november 1st release. also saw it on onsale.com for under 800. i'm hoping by christmas time it will be around 600 or close to that. cant wait to get it!

will this player be able to DECODE TrueHD, DTS-HD and DTS-MA?

if you go to abt electronics website it says in the specs for the player that it has truehd, dts-hd decoding. for dts-hd ma its upgradeable by firmware.

I also downloaded the spec sheet and it alludes to the fact that it will also output HD-DVD at 24fps. Check the sheet out-

1080p 24fps playback on Blu-ray
and HD DVD

and

1080p with 24fps Video Output on Blu-ray and HD DVD

View scenes as they were meant to be seen. The Blu-ray movie title’s original source (1080p/24fps) output and Full HD+ with HQV provides quality comparable to the original content. That means you’ll enjoy film picture quality.

You are overly-optimistic. No way this thing streets for $750.

The Samsung PR said $1049, why the hell would they drop the price $300 KNOWING how much more relevant this player just became. It will not street for $1049, but there is no way it streets for $750.

You can already pre-order for $794.

http://www.onsale.com/shop/detail~dpno~7295840~discount~206.0000.aspx

Would you still consider $750ish overly optimistic? :p

Samsung Australia are saying it won't be available here till the start of 2008. Dam Bluray and your stupid region coding or else I would just order one from the states and have it shipped :( I could live with the SD DVD not being region 4

Samsung BD-UP5000 Universal Player to also feature HD-DVD 1080p24fps according to the official brochure PDF.

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/6493/24poutputbdup5000gd7.jpg

PDF Url:

http://www.a b t e l e c t r o n i c s.com/images/products/PDF_Files/BD-UP5000_specs.pdf


Remove the spaces from the domain name to get the correct url.

No, I mean what is a "Profile 1.0 player"? :)

From Wikipedia Blu-Ray entry:


Profiles

The BD-ROM specification defines four profiles of Blu-ray Disc players. All video-based profiles are required to have a full implementation of BD-J.

1.0 is the basic profile that all current Blu-ray Disc players (as of August 2007) are based on. Players based on this profile are only required to have 64 KB of application data area storage, which is typically used for bookmarks and other preference storage.[citation needed] Most players have more than the minimum required 64 KB.[citation needed] After October 31, 2007, this profile will be superseded by profile 1.1 as the new minimum profile.

1.1 (mandatory November 2007) is typically referred to as "Profile 1.1" (but is more formally known as "Final Standard Profile") adds a secondary video decoder (typically used for picture in picture), secondary audio (typically used for interactive audio and commentary) and capability of supporting a minimum of 256 MB of local storage (for storing audio/video and title updates). Compliance with this profile will be mandatory for player models introduced to the market after October 31, 2007,[1] but existing products will be unaffected. As of July 24, 2007, only the Denon DVD-3800BDCI and DVD-2500BTCI have been announced as supporting this feature when they become available in the fall of 2007.[2]

Some profile 1.0 players may be upgradeable via firmware update to profile 1.1 if they have the appropriate hardware, but no manufacturer has announced any such upgrade. When software authored with interactive features dependent on Profile 1.1 hardware capabilities are played on profile 1.0 players some features may not be available or may offer limited capability. Profile 1.0 players will still be able to play the main feature of the disc, however.

2.0 (BD-Live), also known as BD-Live, adds network connectivity to the list of mandatory functions and increases mandatory local storage capability to 1 GB. No players have been announced as compatible with this profile. Players of earlier profiles will still be able to play the main feature of the disc, however.


source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc

The BD-UP5000 should be Profile 2.0 ready (it got everything... secondary audio and video decoders, memory, ethernet port,...). I suspect it will be upgradeable to 1.1 and 2.0 with a simple firmware update.

From Wikipedia Blu-Ray entry:


Profiles

The BD-ROM specification defines four profiles of Blu-ray Disc players. All video-based profiles are required to have a full implementation of BD-J.

1.0 is the basic profile that all current Blu-ray Disc players (as of August 2007) are based on. Players based on this profile are only required to have 64 KB of application data area storage, which is typically used for bookmarks and other preference storage.[citation needed] Most players have more than the minimum required 64 KB.[citation needed] After October 31, 2007, this profile will be superseded by profile 1.1 as the new minimum profile.

1.1 (mandatory November 2007) is typically referred to as "Profile 1.1" (but is more formally known as "Final Standard Profile") adds a secondary video decoder (typically used for picture in picture), secondary audio (typically used for interactive audio and commentary) and capability of supporting a minimum of 256 MB of local storage (for storing audio/video and title updates). Compliance with this profile will be mandatory for player models introduced to the market after October 31, 2007,[1] but existing products will be unaffected. As of July 24, 2007, only the Denon DVD-3800BDCI and DVD-2500BTCI have been announced as supporting this feature when they become available in the fall of 2007.[2]

Some profile 1.0 players may be upgradeable via firmware update to profile 1.1 if they have the appropriate hardware, but no manufacturer has announced any such upgrade. When software authored with interactive features dependent on Profile 1.1 hardware capabilities are played on profile 1.0 players some features may not be available or may offer limited capability. Profile 1.0 players will still be able to play the main feature of the disc, however.

2.0 (BD-Live), also known as BD-Live, adds network connectivity to the list of mandatory functions and increases mandatory local storage capability to 1 GB. No players have been announced as compatible with this profile. Players of earlier profiles will still be able to play the main feature of the disc, however.


source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc

The BD-UP5000 should be Profile 2.0 ready (it got everything... secondary audio and video decoders, memory, ethernet port,...). I suspect it will be upgradeable to 1.1 and 2.0 with a simple firmware update.

But why isn't it 1.1-ready then. The firmwares must be available now ...

You can already pre-order for $794.

http://www.onsale.com/shop/detail~dpno~7295840~discount~206.0000.aspx

Would you still consider $750ish overly optimistic? :p

On the link above ... when you scroll down to the specs, any one an idea what "2 channel" means in "Dolby True HD Compatible (2 Channel)"?

I didn't see any mention of outputting the HD audio as bitstream in the specs. Didn't Samsung say they were supportting it via HDMI 1.3?

The specs for the BD-UP5000 states that it has an ethernet port. Does anyone know what it's function will be? Will it be for firmware updates only or similar to the PS3 and Pio BDP94HD which allow for playback of music, video and photos from PC's?

It will at least have to be able to support HD DVDs online interactive features to adhere to the spec

You might want to 'borrow' a BDP-2400 from Best Buy for his visit. :D

exactly what i have been thinking.

On the link above ... when you scroll down to the specs, any one an idea what "2 channel" means in "Dolby True HD Compatible (2 Channel)"?

Well it means that it downmixes Dolby TrueHD to 2 ch like the 1st HD DVD players did before fw2.0 but that must be a misprint.

Well it means that it downmixes Dolby TrueHD to 2 ch like the 1st HD DVD players did before fw2.0 but that must be a misprint.I'm not sure if it's a misprint; but the HD DVD specs only require TrueHD decoding for 2 channels (as you said, like the first Tosh's). It remains to be seen what the true specs are; Sammy didn't have any lossless decoding in the 1200 BD player, so it's not like they have a long history of lossless support. It's possible they went for the minimum required spec (though it seems unlikely, but you never know). Or maybe they intend to update it via firmware later, like Tosh did with the HD DVD players.

I'm not sure if it's a misprint; but the HD DVD specs only require TrueHD decoding for 2 channels (as you said, like the first Tosh's). It remains to be seen what the true specs are; Sammy didn't have any lossless decoding in the 1200 BD player, so it's not like they have a long history of lossless support. It's possible they went for the minimum required spec (though it seems unlikely, but you never know). Or maybe they intend to update it via firmware later, like Tosh did with the HD DVD players.

This is very misleading for the customer ... using words like TrueHD and getting only 2 channels ??????

Well it means that it downmixes Dolby TrueHD to 2 ch like the 1st HD DVD players did before fw2.0 but that must be a misprint.


I really hope that is a misprint(or just a piece of misinformation) because it would suck if this player had to wait for a firmware update to decode full TrueHD. :(

From Wikipedia Blu-Ray entry:


Profiles

The BD-ROM specification defines four profiles of Blu-ray Disc players. All video-based profiles are required to have a full implementation of BD-J.

1.0 is the basic profile that all current Blu-ray Disc players (as of August 2007) are based on. Players based on this profile are only required to have 64 KB of application data area storage, which is typically used for bookmarks and other preference storage.[citation needed] Most players have more than the minimum required 64 KB.[citation needed] After October 31, 2007, this profile will be superseded by profile 1.1 as the new minimum profile.

1.1 (mandatory November 2007) is typically referred to as "Profile 1.1" (but is more formally known as "Final Standard Profile") adds a secondary video decoder (typically used for picture in picture), secondary audio (typically used for interactive audio and commentary) and capability of supporting a minimum of 256 MB of local storage (for storing audio/video and title updates). Compliance with this profile will be mandatory for player models introduced to the market after October 31, 2007,[1] but existing products will be unaffected. As of July 24, 2007, only the Denon DVD-3800BDCI and DVD-2500BTCI have been announced as supporting this feature when they become available in the fall of 2007.[2]

Some profile 1.0 players may be upgradeable via firmware update to profile 1.1 if they have the appropriate hardware, but no manufacturer has announced any such upgrade. When software authored with interactive features dependent on Profile 1.1 hardware capabilities are played on profile 1.0 players some features may not be available or may offer limited capability. Profile 1.0 players will still be able to play the main feature of the disc, however.

2.0 (BD-Live), also known as BD-Live, adds network connectivity to the list of mandatory functions and increases mandatory local storage capability to 1 GB. No players have been announced as compatible with this profile. Players of earlier profiles will still be able to play the main feature of the disc, however.


source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc

The BD-UP5000 should be Profile 2.0 ready (it got everything... secondary audio and video decoders, memory, ethernet port,...). I suspect it will be upgradeable to 1.1 and 2.0 with a simple firmware update.

That's not possible. You cannot firmware upgrade a profile 1.0 player into a 1.1 player. It is missing a piece of hardware.

But why isn't it 1.1-ready then. The firmwares must be available now ...

That's not possible. You cannot firmware upgrade a profile 1.0 player into a 1.1 player. It is missing a piece of hardware.

The 5000 has to be HD DVD compliant. Here are the "specs for Dolby TrueHD:

Dolby TrueHD

Dolby® TrueHD is Dolby’s next-generation lossless technology developed for high-definition disc-based media. Dolby TrueHD delivers tantalizing sound that is bit-for-bit identical to the studio master, unlocking the true high-definition entertainment experience on next-generation discs. When coupled with high-definition video, Dolby TrueHD offers an unprecedented home theater experience that lets you enjoy sound as stunning as the high-definition picture.

Features
100 percent lossless coding technology.
Up to 18 Mbps bit rate.
Supports up to eight full-range channels of 24-bit/96 kHz audio.*
Supported by High-Definition Media Interface (HDMI™), the new single-cable digital connection for audio and video.
Supports extensive metadata including dialogue normalization and dynamic range control.
*Dolby TrueHD can support more than eight audio channels. HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc standards currently limit their maximum number of audio channels to eight.

Benefits

Delivers enthralling studio-master-quality sound that unlocks the true high-definition entertainment experience on next-generation discs.
Offers more discrete channels than ever before for impeccable surround sound.
Compatible with the A/V receivers and home-theaters-in-a-box (HTIBs) of today and tomorrow.
Dialogue normalization maintains the same volume level when you change to other Dolby Digital and Dolby TrueHD programming.
Dynamic range control (Night mode) enables you to customize audio playback to reduce peak volume levels (no loud surprises) while experiencing all the details in the soundtrack, enabling late-night viewing of high-energy surround sound without disturbing others.
Selected as the mandatory format for HD DVD and as an optional format for Blu-ray Disc.
Next-Generation High Definition Disc Players are Compatible with Current A/V Receivers
Whether you own an older audio/video (A/V) system equipped with Dolby® Digital, or a newer A/V receiver equipped with an HDMI™ connection or external line-level multichannel inputs, you are assured of a compatible, high-quality playback path.

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/trueHD.html

The specs for the BD-UP5000 states that it has an ethernet port. Does anyone know what it's function will be? Will it be for firmware updates only or similar to the PS3 and Pio BDP94HD which allow for playback of music, video and photos from PC's?

The Ethernet Port is mandatory for HD DVD players. It is for the feature Web Enable and allows firmware updates to be done via the internet if you have a cable modem. (and I think phone)

That's not possible. You cannot firmware upgrade a profile 1.0 player into a 1.1 player. It is missing a piece of hardware.

What sort of hardware is it missing? I mean, I'd understand if it were a standalone BR player but can't it use the same built-in hardware the HD-DVD side needs to meet its specs (secondary decoders, network connectivity, storage, etc)? Or does HD-DVD not require those in a player?

Being a total noob to the forum, I have to ask.
This player being profile 1.0 is stated as a certainty. Did I miss something in the myriad of links?

Samsung BD-UP5000 Universal Player to also feature HD-DVD 1080p24fps according to the official brochure PDF.

Woo-Hoo! :D

What sort of hardware is it missing? I mean, I'd understand if it were a standalone BR player but can't it use the same built-in hardware the HD-DVD side needs to meet its specs (secondary decoders, network connectivity, storage, etc)? Or does HD-DVD not require those in a player?

To be profile 1.1 compliant you need 256 MB of Persistamt Storage - easy to do - no problem.

You also need a SoC (System on a Chip) that supports profile 1.1. The Broadcom SoC is not 1.1 compliant (as of this posting) and SIGMA does have a SoC called the 8634 Rev.C SoC that is supposed to be able to do it. Rev.C is different then the previos Rev's of the 8634 because it ir supposed to be able to do Luma Key which is all part of the DS (dual stream) PIP processing (and supposedly about to provide 2 HD video streams that may be used for both PIP and a real 3D movie (using LCD shutter glasses).

Only way to go to REV.C is to replace the chip. I am not sure if there are any supporting components that also need to be in place in conjunction with the 8634/C to make a BD player 1.1 compliant.

Onece 1.1 is hot then comes 2.0 (BD LIVE) which means the PS jumps to 1.GB and Ethernet becomes mandatory.

This only affects BD SAL players. The PS3 has a CELL Processor and is thought to be able to be upgraded by firmware

So far the ONLY BD player that had been announced as 1.1 compliant was the $2000 Denon and they just announced that they are not going to be delivering their BD 1.1 player until Q2 2008.

Being a total noob to the forum, I have to ask.
This player being profile 1.0 is stated as a certainty. Did I miss something in the myriad of links?

Hi and welcome to AVS:)

Search this thread for "PC World" - the article where the Samsung executive says "No profile 1.1 players until 2008"

Just use the search tool above

To be profile 1.1 compliant you need 256 MB of Persistamt Storage - easy to do - no problem.

You also need a SoC (System on a Chip) that supports profile 1.1. The Broadcom SoC is not 1.1 compliant (as of this posting) and SIGMA does have a SoC called the 8634 Rev.C SoC that is supposed to be able to do it. Rev.C is different then the previos Rev's of the 8634 because it ir supposed to be able to do Luma Key which is all part of the DS (dual stream) PIP processing (and supposedly about to provide 2 HD video streams that may be used for both PIP and a real 3D movie (using LCD shutter glasses).

Only way to go to REV.C is to replace the chip. I am not sure if there are any supporting components that also need to be in place in conjunction with the 8634/C to make a BD player 1.1 compliant.

Onece 1.1 is hot then comes 2.0 (BD LIVE) which means the PS jumps to 1.GB and Ethernet becomes mandatory.

This only affects BD SAL players. The PS3 has a CELL Processor and is thought to be able to be upgraded by firmware

So far the ONLY BD player that had been announced as 1.1 compliant was the $2000 Denon and they just announced that they are not going to be delivering their BD 1.1 player until Q2 2008.

Thanks. Yeah, seems like quite a way to go still. No wonder BR fans/studios may be frustrated!

I really hope that is a misprint(or just a piece of misinformation) because it would suck if this player had to wait for a firmware update to decode full TrueHD. :(

Specs posted on sites like this have often been wrong. In the PDF posted there was nothing about TrueHD only being 2ch. Of course this would be disappointing if it were true. I am assuming if they are promising DTS HD MA via firmware that TrueHD will already be there. We will see soon enough.

Specs posted on sites like this have often been wrong. In the PDF posted there was nothing about TrueHD only being 2ch. Of course this would be disappointing if it were true. I am assuming if they are promising DTS HD MA via firmware that TrueHD will already be there. We will see soon enough.

Both sets of fingers are crossed. ;)

Amazon first listed it on the 23rd of August. It states Nov. 1.07

http://www.amazon.com/s******nb_ss_gw/102-7644616-6212939?initialSearch=1&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=BD-UP5000+Samsung+

for dts-hd ma its upgradeable by firmware.

How do you know this for sure? Source?

And what about a European version of the 5000? Are there rumours about this yet?

So far the ONLY BD player that had been announced as 1.1 compliant was the $2000 Denon and they just announced that they are not going to be delivering their BD 1.1 player until Q2 2008.

Where did you pick up this news ... this is a disappointment, why did they pospone? :(

And what about a European version of the 5000? Are there rumours about this yet?
I REALLY hope we are getting this player too ... would be a definite must-buy for me :)

I REALLY hope we are getting this player too ... would be a definite must-buy for me :)

We'll get it allright but it will be 6 months after the states and twice the price, so....like all my other HT gear I will be ordering it from the states and plug it in to the power converter im using for my receiver.
Since HD DVD is region free and you can get more choices of region A BD discs cheaper from Amazon its a no brainer.

That's not possible. You cannot firmware upgrade a profile 1.0 player into a 1.1 player. It is missing a piece of hardware.Of course it's possible - look at the PS3. Today it's a 1.0 player. It may well be a 1.1 player upon the next update. Samsung certainly could be shipping 1.1-capable hardware without yet providing the enabling firmware.
The 5000 has to be HD DVD compliant. Here are the "specs for Dolby TrueHD:The HD DVD spec only requires two-channel TrueHD output (which is what the Xbox 360 HD add-on does). There isn't necessarily a misprint.
So far the ONLY BD player that had been announced as 1.1 compliant was the $2000 Denon and they just announced that they are not going to be delivering their BD 1.1 player until Q2 2008.Denon announced European delivery wouldn't be until Q2 2008. They haven't announced any delays for the US.

Some of the posts I've read from reliable posters indicate that Sammy is using the Broadcom 7440 SoC; which unlike the 7411 used in the current Sammy BD player (1200) is advertised to support advanced profiles (actually says 2.0 in the pdf). So far Sammy hasn't used Sigma. We know the machine will have an internet connection; and the current Sammy 1200 BD player has 256 memory; so if indeed it has a Broadcom 7440, as Talk says, I would certainly expect it to support at least profile 1.1, if not 2.0 (don't know about the 1 gig stoarge). I know they haven't said that they would do this, but may be waiting an announcement date, further testing, or whatnot. Who knows. The annoucement may even say that it will be upgradable via firmware, as I've seen several DTS-MA press releases which advertise this.

There are BD players with hardware limitations on upgrages, but I don't think that this will be one of them (or the Sammy BD player 1400, which is reportedly using the same chip).

i just noticed, that our German online-retailer "weltbild.de" lists the "BD-UP5000" for pre-ordering (Release-Date 02. November 2007) ... :)

Samsung Kombi-DVD-Player "BD-UP 5000" für HD-DVD & Blu-ray
http://www.weltbild.de/artikel.php?artikelnummer=574002&mode=art&bgnz=1
EUR 999.- / lieferbar ab 02.11.2007

How do you know this for sure? Source?

Looks like what we know so far is that the Samsung product brochure below claims that the BD-UP5000 audio decoding will be firmware upgradeable.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=87992&d=1188130520

Of course it's possible - look at the PS3. Today it's a 1.0 player. It may well be a 1.1 player upon the next update. Samsung certainly could be shipping 1.1-capable hardware without yet providing the enabling firmware.


Well, I think Lee was talking about the Samsung player and not about the PS3. We all know that the PS3 may get BD 1.1 - it could happen - it should - unfortunately paidgeek (or was it you?) said a while ago in the insider thread that it might never happen. But one thing we know for sure: if the Samsung does not have the necessary hardware, it will NEVER be able to do BD 1.1 (BTW, Samsung stated that they will not build BD 1.1 players before 2008, so....)

Bummer. You do not have by any chance news about a PS3 BD 1.1 update?

BTW, I really liked your rant in the insider thread:

I'm shocked this article was printed in a magazine with the reputation of The Economist, and further shocked that Amir suggests it represents first-class journalism.

It reminds my, I have to watch my Casblanca HD DVD once more these days:

Captain Renault: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!
[a croupier hands Renault a pile of money]

Some of the posts I've read from reliable posters indicate that Sammy is using the Broadcom 7440 SoC; which unlike the 7411 used in the current Sammy BD player (1200) is advertised to support advanced profiles (actually says 2.0 in the pdf). So far Sammy hasn't used Sigma. We know the machine will have an internet connection; and the current Sammy 1200 BD player has 256 memory; so if indeed it has a Broadcom 7440, as Talk says, I would certainly expect it to support at least profile 1.1, if not 2.0 (don't know about the 1 gig stoarge). I know they haven't said that they would do this, but may be waiting an announcement date, further testing, or whatnot. Who knows. The annoucement may even say that it will be upgradable via firmware, as I've seen several DTS-MA press releases which advertise this.

There are BD players with hardware limitations on upgrages, but I don't think that this will be one of them (or the Sammy BD player 1400, which is reportedly using the same chip).

The Broadcom does not support Luma Key. - No Luma key - No profile 1.1

And this is the UP 5000 thread talk - more of YOUR misdirection?

i just noticed, that our German online-retailer "weltbild.de" lists the "BD-UP5000" for pre-ordering (Release-Date 02. November 2007) ... :)

Samsung Kombi-DVD-Player "BD-UP 5000" für HD-DVD & Blu-ray
http://www.weltbild.de/artikel.php?artikelnummer=574002&mode=art&bgnz=1
EUR 999.- / lieferbar ab 02.11.2007

NICE! But will this player play my European region BR AND HD discs?

The Broadcom does not support Luma Key. - No Luma key - No profile 1.1

Lee, some comments and questions if you please about your assertions regarding the Broadcom 7440 SoC.

It is my understanding that while the term "Profile 1.1" is commonly used, the actual official term for the profile is "Profile 1.0 Final Standard Profile", not true? Also it is my understanding that the specifications and requirements for the BD-Live Profile 2.0 include support for the functions included in Profile 1.0 Final Standard Profile- i.e. Profile "1.1". Also not true? (See here (http://www.emedialive.com/articles/readarticle.aspx?articleid=11397#iij).)

Now, Broadcom's spec sheet for the 7440 chip (click here for .pdf (http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/7440-PB100-R.pdf)) claims that it supports Profile 2.0- ergo it would also need to support the requirements of Profile 1.0 Final Standard Profile (Profile 1.1), right? (I note that the spec sheet does not specifically claim support for "Profile 1.1" but if "Profile 1.1" is not the profile's official name, that wouldn't be surprising in a technical document, would it?)

So, if you don't mind, I'd like your thoughts on the above points, and while you're at it could you please supply the source of your information that luma key is required for "Profile 1.1" and that the Broadcom 7440 doesn't support that feature. Hey, and while you're at it, how about your source that the BD-UP5000 will for sure not use the Broadcom 7440 chip as some are speculating that it might (if this is indeed what you're claiming).

TIA,

kelpie

Lee - I doubt that the Samsung would not be able to do 5.1 TruHD, so I would advise we wait and see.

Re: the BD 1.1, if it can do PiP on HD DVD, it may be capable of BD 1.1 - however, it's more likely that the "kinks" and "bugs" haven't been worked out yet.

It's looking like no one will have BD 1.1 players ready this year, even though the hardware they are using should *techinically* be *able* to do it.

The problems are really in squaring up the software development, I feel. Which is probably why talkstr8t has ventured into this thread which is otherwise irrelevant to Sun or java...

I'm actually rooting for this player - but I don't believe it will be BD 1.1 compliant this year, tho it may be technically able from a hardware point of view.

I feel a bit sorry for Samsung at the amount of troubles they've gotten in their attempts to support bluray.

Sounds like you guys have lots of inside info on this player. And not to side track the current discussion, but...

Does anyone know if it will have a cooling fan or fans?

I hope this player is not limited to 2.0 Dolby TrueHD over the 7.1 analog outs. I have a receiver with 7.1 analog outs and been waiting for this player for a while. I hope I am not in for a disappointment.

Sounds like you guys have lots of inside info on this player. And not to side track the current discussion, but...

Does anyone know if it will have a cooling fan or fans?
According to this picture (http://gizmodo.com/photogallery/samsungbdup5000/2238314?viewSize=thumb800x800) it has one fan. The back of the player looks quite identical to the older samsung BR-players.

I hope this player is not limited to 2.0 Dolby TrueHD over the 7.1 analog outs. I have a receiver with 7.1 analog outs and been waiting for this player for a while. I hope I am not in for a disappointment.

That would be a dealbreaker for me...

Does it at least have a detachable power cord?

Does it at least have a detachable power cord?

Doubt it. The pictures of the pre-production version have a permanent PC.

Lee - I doubt that the Samsung would not be able to do 5.1 TruHD, so I would advise we wait and see.

Re: the BD 1.1, if it can do PiP on HD DVD, it may be capable of BD 1.1 - however, it's more likely that the "kinks" and "bugs" haven't been worked out yet.

It's looking like no one will have BD 1.1 players ready this year, even though the hardware they are using should *techinically* be *able* to do it.

The problems are really in squaring up the software development, I feel. Which is probably why talkstr8t has ventured into this thread which is otherwise irrelevant to Sun or java...

I'm actually rooting for this player - but I don't believe it will be BD 1.1 compliant this year, tho it may be technically able from a hardware point of view.

I feel a bit sorry for Samsung at the amount of troubles they've gotten in their attempts to support bluray.


That made me laugh.... I am sure your heart bleeds for Samsung.

That would be a dealbreaker for me...

Yup for me as well.

The Broadcom does not support Luma Key. - No Luma key - No profile 1.1

And this is the UP 5000 thread talk - more of YOUR misdirection?MY misdirection? That's pretty funny coming from you. What was your interest in this player again? You are wrong about the Broadcom 7440, btw. Read the pdf. They don't state 1.1 in their (I assume due to an oversight), but specifically mention Profile 2.0, which has all of the 1.1 features plus internet connectivity and more memory. The one you are thinking of is the 7411, IIRC. I believe this Dou player will use the same chip as the new Sammy BD players.

MY misdirection? That's pretty funny coming from you. What was your interest in this player again? You are wrong about the Broadcom 7440, btw. Read the pdf. They don't state 1.1 in their (I assume due to an oversight), but specifically mention Profile 2.0, which has all of the 1.1 features plus internet connectivity and more memory. The one you are thinking of is the 7411, IIRC. I believe this Dou player will use the same chip as the new Sammy BD players.

Nope. Can be a 1.0 and a 2.0 but not a 1.1. DS PIP is totally different hardware requirement versus Web Enable.

And Samsung Exec specifically said "No 1.1 players until2008"

So should I believe him . . . .or you?

I'm just discussing the capabilities of the chip. You said it's not Luma-Key capable. From the .pdf:

Software: Full support for Blu-ray and HD DVD profiles

See: http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/7440-PB100-R.pdf

Nope. Can be a 1.0 and a 2.0 but not a 1.1. DS PIP is totally different hardware requirement versus Web Enable.

I can understand that the hardware requirements that allow Profile 2.0's BD-Live network connectivity are different from the hardware that allows Profile "1.1's" PIP capability. Wouldn't expect otherwise. But you are certain that the BDA standards would allow for a Profile 2.0 player that does not also support Profile "1.1's" requirements?

And Samsung Exec specifically said "No 1.1 players until2008"

So should I believe him . . . .or you?



Yeah, it would seem that a journalist published that, eh? But Reuters reported on a Friday that the President of Sony Corp. said no price drop was planned on the PS3, and on the next Monday Sony dropped the price. Should you have believed him? Corporate plans have been known to change before.

And even if Samsung doesn't change their plans and even if the BD-UP5000 is released as a pre-11/1 Profile 1.0 player, you're still claiming that it would be "impossible" to update a pre-11/1 Profile 1.0 player to Profile "1.1"? It would be "impossible" for Samsung to include the necessary Profile "1.1" hardware in the BD-UP5000 now and update it to profile "1.1" with firmware in 2008 when the software bugs are worked out? It's "impossible" that there could be more that your one reason (lack of necessary hardware) for there being no Samsung Profile "1.1" player this year?

Just want to make sure that I understand your position.

I hope this player is not limited to 2.0 Dolby TrueHD over the 7.1 analog outs. I have a receiver with 7.1 analog outs and been waiting for this player for a while. I hope I am not in for a disappointment.

That would be a dealbreaker for me as well. I hope Samsung gets it right or I'm going to be extremely disappointed. :(

I would consider bying this player if it was 1.1 but I can't justify spending $800-$1000 for a player that will not allow me to use all features of the disc. Forget it.

I wish they would clearly state whether there will be passing bitstream audio over HDMI. I just want to see it light up on my 905 (for once)... :)

Hi and welcome to AVS:)Thanks.

Nope. Can be a 1.0 and a 2.0 but not a 1.1. DS PIP is totally different hardware requirement versus Web Enable.
It is my understanding that while the term "Profile 1.1" is commonly used, the actual official term for the profile is "Profile 1.0 Final Standard Profile", not true? Also it is my understanding that the specifications and requirements for the BD-Live Profile 2.0 include support for the functions included in Profile 1.0 Final Standard Profile- i.e. Profile "1.1". Also not true? (See here (http://www.emedialive.com/articles/readarticle.aspx?articleid=11397#iij).)

Now, Broadcom's spec sheet for the 7440 chip (click here for .pdf (http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/7440-PB100-R.pdf)) claims that it supports Profile 2.0- ergo it would also need to support the requirements of Profile 1.0 Final Standard Profile (Profile 1.1), right?
OK, now I'm confused.:confused: Which is it?

OK, now I'm confused.:confused: Which is it?

I don't believe anyone knows for certain yet since it hasn't actually been released, but best available information suggests that the BD-UP5000 will be released as a pre-11/1 deadline Profile 1.0 (grace period) player.

The point of my post was not to dispute that. But Lee seems to be claiming that it is not possible to build and release a Blu-ray player that has all the necessary hardware for Profile 1.1 (i.e. Profile 1.0 Final Standard Profile) yet lacks the software to enable all of that hardware- software that might be made available at a future date via a firmware update. I question this apparent claim (among others).

(Originally Posted by Googlefan->
But why isn't it 1.1-ready then. The firmwares must be available now ...)

That's not possible. You cannot firmware upgrade a profile 1.0 player into a 1.1 player. It is missing a piece of hardware.

I wish they would clearly state whether there will be passing bitstream audio over HDMI. I just want to see it light up on my 905 (for once)... :)

I don't think that Samsung has full control over it. Apparently it's security related. If I understnad correctly bitstreams aren't passed through as the systems can't differenctiate in-between Audio HD bitstreams and - potentially illegally copied - video bitstreams ... don't really know how this will be solved. :(

A quick heads up from the UK.

This Sammy has just gone up at Amazon UK for £485. Not these prices don't alweays translate directly with currency rates, but to draw a comparison, the Samsung BD-P1000 is £450 (Amazon US $510)and the Sony BDPS1E is £699 (Amazon US $649.99).

That means this dual-format player has been announced for only £35 more than the cheapest BD-only player. :eek:

A little perspective, the Samsung BD-P1400 (due out at the same time as the 5000) is listed at £323.39.

This is massive news - possibly as big, if nor bigger than Paramount.

Anything in the £300-£500 region is pretty mid-price. By the timer they arrive you'll ber able to get a HD-E1 for £149 (currently £199 at Amazon, seen for as low as £185 elsewhere).

The option for buyers now appears to be - go high-end and get a Pioneer for close to £1,000. Go mid-price and get a dual-format player. Or get a HD DVD player for peanuts.

BD isn't dead. But at these prices BD-only players are on life support.

The option now isn't HD DVD or BD.

The option now is HD DVD or dual-format.

Steve W

I guess then the only way to know for sure is to hook one up and see. We will know soon enough...

I don't believe anyone knows for certain yet since it hasn't actually been released, but best available information suggests that the BD-UP5000 will be released as a pre-11/1 deadline Profile 1.0 (grace period) player.

The point of my post was not to dispute that. But Lee seems to be claiming that it is not possible to build and release a Blu-ray player that has all the necessary hardware for Profile 1.1 (i.e. Profile 1.0 Final Standard Profile) yet lacks the software to enable all of that hardware- software that might be made available at a future date via a firmware update. I question this apparent claim (among others).

As of today, there is only 1 SoC that can do Luma Keying - The Sigma 8634 RevC. So tell us the availablitiy of this chip please.

1.1 (mandatory November 2007) is typically referred to as "Profile 1.1" (but is more formally known as "Final Standard Profile") adds a secondary video decoder (typically used for picture in picture), secondary audio (typically used for interactive audio and commentary) and capability of supporting a minimum of 256 MB of local storage (for storing audio/video and title updates). Compliance with this profile will be mandatory for player models introduced to the market after October 31, 2007, but existing products will be unaffected

A quick Google search this morning shows the BD-UP5000 is being listed on some US etailers with prices varying from $999 - $793. Not much of a gauge on what it will really street for, I'm going to wait for Crutchfield and Amazon for that.

I think it is close to coming. My CC was charged this morning and they were not supposed to until it was shipping...

I think it is close to coming. My CC was charged this morning and they were not supposed to until it was shipping...


I don't want to be the guy who yells "fire" in a movie theater but Samsung stated this unit would not ship until Q4. October time frame. If they were shipping in the next few days wouldn't we have seen an announcement of such?

Just to play it safe and to help others here - you might want to call the people you are buying it from and ask them for the serial # of the machine that is earmarked for you.

Not saying it can't happen. Just saying check to make sure. Call it friendly advice.

The P1400 was supposed to be the first of the Gen3 Sam,'s to ship and it hasn't yet.

Maybe they are both coming at the same time. Either way, I think I will cancel my order and play it safe... It doesn't make sense...

joe, i'm sure you are aware that sometimes even when they arent supposed to charge the card untill shipment, sometimes they do it anyway. this is most evident from the 905threads. BTW who did you preorder from?

Does anyone know for certain if this player will pass TrueHD over analog? I'd like to hold off from buying an HDMI receiver. Also, anyone know the quality of the DACs?

I am aware but when I called them to order I was assured it would not be charged until the unit was going out the door! :eek:

I am aware but when I called them to order I was assured it would not be charged until the unit was going out the door! :eek:

Who did you order from?

BTW, now up from £485 to £529 at Amazon UK.

Steve W

I pulled out... I will wait and order from a more reliable place...

I don't want to be the guy who yells "fire" in a movie theater but Samsung stated this unit would not ship until Q4. October time frame. If they were shipping in the next few days wouldn't we have seen an announcement of such?

Just to play it safe and to help others here - you might want to call the people you are buying it from and ask them for the serial # of the machine that is earmarked for you.

Not saying it can't happen. Just saying check to make sure. Call it friendly advice.

The P1400 was supposed to be the first of the Gen3 Sam,'s to ship and it hasn't yet.I agree with this; and think Joe right to pull out. It's been noted that the P1400 has been added to CC's website, so these products truly may be early; but all of the reputable vendors still seem to have Oct or Nov dates for the Dou Player.

Well, I still have an order in with the onsale.com guys for the dual Samsung. I'll let you know what happens.

Cool. Keep us posted...

Lee, I'm the one asking questions here and you're the one making adamant (and I have to say dogmatic) claims, so I have to admit that I'm a little befuddled as to the relevance of your post. It would seem to me that the burden of proof lies with you to provide references for your claims rather than with me to prove you wrong. I'm confused as to why you don't just provide the sources for your claims.


As of today, there is only 1 SoC that can do Luma Keying - The Sigma 8634 RevC. So tell us the availablitiy of this chip please.

I don't claim to be an industry insider and don't know the production capacity of the Sigma Designs company. But you yourself have claimed elsewhere in this forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11154060#post11154060) that the Sigma 8634 is the SoC used in some Blu-ray players that are currently available, so it would seem to me that you yourself believe that the chip has been released for sale and is available. Was the point of your post to contradict yourself?

1.1 (mandatory November 2007) is typically referred to as "Profile 1.1" (but is more formally known as "Final Standard Profile") adds a secondary video decoder (typically used for picture in picture), secondary audio (typically used for interactive audio and commentary) and capability of supporting a minimum of 256 MB of local storage (for storing audio/video and title updates). Compliance with this profile will be mandatory for player models introduced to the market after October 31, 2007, but existing products will be unaffected


I for one don't consider Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray#Profiles) the final arbiter of all disputes, and I don't understand why you quoted this particular paragraph since it seems to support what I was saying about "Profile 1.1" not being the official term for the "Final Standard Profile", but since you seem to quote Wikipedia often and rely on it as the source for your information, let's take a look at the very next paragraph on that page. It says:

2.0 (BD-Live), also known as BD-Live, adds (emphasis added) network connectivity to the list of mandatory functions and increases mandatory local storage capability to 1 GB. No players have been announced as compatible with this profile. Players of earlier profiles will still be able to play the main feature of the disc, however.

Hmm, your source says it adds network connectivity to the earlier profiles' list of mandatory functions? Your favorite source would suggest to me that Profile 2.0 includes the requirements of Profile 1.1- so a player that meets BDA's Profile 2.0 standard will also meet BDA's Profile 1.1 standards- according to your source?

So, it looks to me like you have said that the Sigma 8634 chip is available and supports Profile 1.1, so please explain to us again why it is "not possible" to build a Blu-ray player with the hardware capable of supporting Profile 1.1, yet lacks the software to implement those capabilities, and why that software couldn't be made available later as a firmware update.

Also, please provide the source for your claim that the Profile 2.0 standards don't require compliance with the Profile 1.1 standards (since your own source so far seems to contradict your claims). Or is this just an assumption that you have made and are now asserting as dogmatic fact?

If you can't provide your source that supports your claim that Profile 2.0 doesn't include Profile 1.1 requirements, please tell us the basis for your claim that the Broadcom 7440 chip- which Broadcom says supports Profile 2.0- won't support Profile 1.1 (and if it does indeed support Profiles 1.1 and Profile 2.0, how you know that it does not support luma keying- source?).

Thanks

The three SoC's that are available in BD players:

http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/7440-PB100-R.pdf

http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/7411-PB07-R.pdf

http://www.sigmadesigns.com/public/Products/SMP8630/pdf_files/bluray8634_br.pdf

The SIGMA 8634 came out last year. It was used in three BD players; Pioneer, Panasonic and Sony S1. It was Rev.A/B It does not have the Luma Keying feature that the brand new Rev.C has.

Without the Luma Keying feature - DS PIP is not possible. It is not a firmware addition. It cannot be added to a Rev.A/B. SoC

The 2 Broadcom SoC's do not have Luma Keying. Again it cannot be added by a firmware upgrade.

You will notice that an SoC can be both 1.0 and 2.0 compliant. This will depend on the amount of Persistant Storage. 1 GB and an Ethernet Port are needed. Do any BD players have 1GB of P.S.? Not to my knowledge, but no one has seen the inside of the new 5000.

2.0 provides Web Enable - which has nothing to do with DS PIP. This is why a player can be both 1.0 and 2.0 compliant but not 1.1.

Talkstr - a Sony insider has already admited that the existing BD SAL's cannot be upgraded to 1.1.

The information on the SIGMA 8634 Rev.C and previous Rev.A/B comes directly from a SIGMA employee

This answer your question?

2.0 provides Web Enable - which has nothing to do with DS PIP. This is why a player can be both 1.0 and 2.0 compliant but not 1.1.

I don't agree with this.

"BD-Video 1.0 (profile 1) players and software must have available at least 256 MB of local storage (built-in or removable flash memory, hard drive, etc.) and incorporate VFS, secondary audio mixing and PiP. Be aware that an initial grace period (ends Oct. 31, 2007) allows manufacturers to forego these features. BD-Live (profile 2) includes these capabilities but expands local storage to at least 1 GB while adding the ability to access the Internet."

source: http://www.emedialive.com/articles/readarticle.aspx?articleid=11397#iij

or

http://developers.sun.com/learning/javaoneonline/2006/mobility/TS-1685.pdf
Site: 23

Gnu

This is from a press kit from Germany that confirms it as profile 1.0:

"Der BD-UP5000 unterstützt als momentan einziges Modell weltweit die interaktiven Fähigkeiten beider HD-Formate: interactive High Definition (iHD) für HD-DVD und BD-Java (BD-J Profile v1.0) für Blu-ray. Mithilfe dieser Technologien kann der HD-Player Zusatzinfos und interaktive Funktionen abspielen, die auf der HD-DVD oder der BD gespeichert sind, filmbezogene Spiele aktivieren oder über einen Internetzugang Trailer und Informationen zum Film herunter laden."

It also confirms the MSRP as 999.00 euros.

I don't agree with this.

"BD-Video 1.0 (profile 1) players and software must have available at least 256 MB of local storage (built-in or removable flash memory, hard drive, etc.) and incorporate VFS, secondary audio mixing and PiP. Be aware that an initial grace period (ends Oct. 31, 2007) allows manufacturers to forego these features. BD-Live (profile 2) includes these capabilities but expands local storage to at least 1 GB while adding the ability to access the Internet."

source: http://www.emedialive.com/articles/readarticle.aspx?articleid=11397#iij

or

http://developers.sun.com/learning/javaoneonline/2006/mobility/TS-1685.pdf
Site: 23

Gnu

So what about this?

Profiles
The BD-ROM specification defines four profiles of Blu-ray Disc players. All video-based profiles are required to have a full implementation of BD-J.

1.0 is the basic profile that all current Blu-ray Disc players (as of August 2007) are based on. Players based on this profile are only required to have 64 KB of application data area storage, which is typically used for bookmarks and other preference storage.[citation needed] Most players have more than the minimum required 64 KB. After October 31, 2007, this profile will be superseded by profile 1.1 as the new minimum profile.

1.1 (mandatory November 2007) is typically referred to as "Profile 1.1" (but is more formally known as "Final Standard Profile") adds a secondary video decoder (typically used for picture in picture), secondary audio (typically used for interactive audio and commentary) and capability of supporting a minimum of 256 MB of local storage (for storing audio/video and title updates). Compliance with this profile will be mandatory for player models introduced to the market after October 31, 2007,[1] but existing products will be unaffected. As of July 24, 2007, only the Denon DVD-3800BDCI and DVD-2500BTCI have been announced as supporting this feature when they become available in the fall of 2007.[2]

Some profile 1.0 players may be upgradeable via firmware update to profile 1.1 if they have the appropriate hardware, but no manufacturer has announced any such upgrade. When software authored with interactive features dependent on Profile 1.1 hardware capabilities are played on profile 1.0 players some features may not be available or may offer limited capability. Profile 1.0 players will still be able to play the main feature of the disc, however.

2.0 (BD-Live), also known as BD-Live, adds network connectivity to the list of mandatory functions and increases mandatory local storage capability to 1 GB. So far one manufacturer, Daewoo, has created a player with this profile, the Daewoo DBP-1000, and will hit the consumer market in the very near future.[3]

3 (audio only) is meant for an audio-only player and does not require video decoding or BD-J.

___________________________________________

From Wiki (BD Disc)

Looks like they just updated it today because the Daewoo is in there and that was announced today.

Nope. Can be a 1.0 and a 2.0 but not a 1.1. DS PIP is totally different hardware requirement versus Web Enable.BD-Live is a superset of BD-Video 1.1. All 2.0 players by definition must support all 1.1 features.

BD-Live is a superset of BD-Video 1.1. All 2.0 players by definition must support all 1.1 features.Talk,

Thank You. Lee, Talk is a BD insider (in case you didn't know).

so if this player is 1.0 BD spec, then it must be released before Nov. 1st right?

so if this player is 1.0 BD spec, then it must be released before Nov. 1st right?

ABSOLUTELY correct - that is WHY Amazon is claiming
a 11/1/07 ship date to BUYERS.

ABSOLUTELY correct - that is WHY Amazon is claiming
a 11/1/07 ship date to BUYERS.

I wish they would put the damn thing up for pre-order already. I have already decided that I am definately buying this.

I wish they would put the damn thing up for pre-order already. I have already decided that I am definately buying this.

I just clicked on the E-mail Button - I assume after
it is OFFICIALLY announced at CEDIA next week - Then
Amazon will start taking orders.

Still not the perfect dual player.
For me to spend about $800 on a single player it better have 2.0 or at the very least a 2.0 upgrade path.

With a 1.0 only option, this player is still too expensive.

I wish they would put the damn thing up for pre-order already.

I'll second that. :cool:

This answer your question?


No, Lee. I appreciate your efforts, but unfortunately it doesn't. Keep in mind that you have claimed that it is "not possible" for a manufacturer to build and release a Profile 1.0 player that is firmware upgradeable to Profile 1.1. You did not say that it was "not possible IF the player lacked the necessary hardware", or that it was just your opinion that it was "not possible", or that you thought it "highly improbable", or even that it would be "really really hard" for a manufacturer to create a Profile 1.0 player whose firmware could later be upgraded to Profile 1.1. Nope, you have stated as dogmatic fact that "That's not possible (you even used red!). You cannot firmware upgrade a profile 1.0 player into a 1.1 player." I questioned if this is indeed "fact". I asked you for the sources (meaning verifiable sources) for your claims, but unfortunately the sources that you have been providing either don't support your claims, or they specifically refute your claims.

2.0 provides Web Enable - which has nothing to do with DS PIP. This is why a player can be both 1.0 and 2.0 compliant but not 1.1.

Lee, it would appear that this is indeed just another assumption that you have made based on an incomplete and/or inaccurate understanding of the standards. When I asked you for your sources for this claim you provided none. And elsewhere you used that Wikipedia Blu-ray article that specifically contradicts your claim. (Bad form to quote sources that contradict your position!) And now Talkstr8t (another source that you quote and know to be an insider) tells us:

BD-Live is a superset of BD-Video 1.1. All 2.0 players by definition must support all 1.1 features.

Your own sources tell you that you are wrong on this point, Lee. And unfortunately on this point the logic behind the rest of your argument seems to crumble like a house of cards.

The three SoC's that are available in BD players:

http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/7440-PB100-R.pdf

http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/7411-PB07-R.pdf

http://www.sigmadesigns.com/public/Products/SMP8630/pdf_files/bluray8634_br.pdf

The SIGMA 8634 came out last year. It was used in three BD players; Pioneer, Panasonic and Sony S1. It was Rev.A/B It does not have the Luma Keying feature that the brand new Rev.C has.

Without the Luma Keying feature - DS PIP is not possible. It is not a firmware addition. It cannot be added to a Rev.A/B. SoC

The information on the SIGMA 8634 Rev.C and previous Rev.A/B comes directly from a SIGMA employee

You have quoted those .pdf documents in the first quote repeatedly, but I do not see where they support your claims. The Broadcom 7411 document is irrelevant to the point at hand since no one seems to be asking why a player that doesn't have the hardware to support Profile 1.1 can't later be updated with firmware. The Broadcom 7440 .pdf says that the chip supports Profile 2.0- which we now have determined includes support for the features of Profile 1.1, so this document doesn't support your argument- and it seems to refute it if its accurate. I didn't see where the Sigma 8634 document mentions the various revision versions that you claim. While this doesn't disprove your claims about Sigma chips, it certainly doesn't support your assertions.

Your claims about the Sigma chip having three versions is very interesting, but your document doesn't support this claim, and frankly Lee, since you have shown a propensity to misunderstand and then misrepresent your assumptions about what you understand as unassailable fact, I'm somewhat reluctant to just take your word for it. "Because Lee Stewart Says So" isn't the gold-standard any more even if you do have a tremendous post count on the board. You have asked me to provide information on the availability of the Sigma 8634 Rev.C chip. That's not my job, Lee. In order to support your claim you have to show verifiable evidence not only that no Sigma chip that supports Profile 1.1 will be available to CE manufacturers before the 10/31 grace period deadline, but also that no Profile 1.1 capable SoC from any manufacturer will be available. Otherwise it's just more of "because Lee Stewart says so".


The 2 Broadcom SoC's do not have Luma Keying. Again it cannot be added by a firmware upgrade.

Again, no one is claiming that a player or SoC that lacks the appropriate hardware will be firmware upgradeable, and no one claims that the Broadcom 7411 has the hardware. But Broadcom claims that the 7440 chip support Profile 2.0- which we have now determined includes support for profile 1.1- and Samsung is rumored to be using the Broadcom 7440 chip in its new players. You have provided no source other than your say-so that the Broadcom SoC is incapable of supporting Profile 1.1.

You will notice that an SoC can be both 1.0 and 2.0 compliant. This will depend on the amount of Persistant Storage. 1 GB and an Ethernet Port are needed. Do any BD players have 1GB of P.S.? Not to my knowledge, but no one has seen the inside of the new 5000.

Talkstr - a Sony insider has already admited that the existing BD SAL's cannot be upgraded to 1.1.


(Response to Enigma) And this is the UP 5000 thread talk - more of YOUR misdirection?

Frankly, I'm amused that you would accuse Enigma of misdirection in this thread. We're not talking about existing standalone (SAL) players, and we're not talking about upgrading existing players to Profile 2.0. In your response to me you just seem to be dancing around the question and setting up a straw-man argument to knock down rather than supporting your claims.

Talkstr - a Sony insider has already admited that the existing BD SAL's cannot be upgraded to 1.1.

In this very thread you have used (and even quoted) a Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray#Profiles) that specifically refutes your claims about Profile 2.0 not including support for Profile 1.1 (see my post above) and it even specifically refutes your claim that it is "not possible" to create a Profile 1.0 player that can be upgraded to Profile 1.1. Now you use Talkstr8t as a source when he also refutes your claims about Profile 2.0 not supporting Profile 1.1 functions, AND he has also said earlier in this thread (concerning creating a Profile 1.0 player that can be firmware upgraded to Profile 1.1):

Of course it's possible - <snip> Samsung certainly could be shipping 1.1-capable hardware without yet providing the enabling firmware.


If you can't believe your own sources, Lee, what do you base your "knowledge" on? When Enigma questioned your accusation of his "misdirecting" this thread you asked him if you should believe him or if you should believe your source. Now I ask you, should we believe you or believe your sources? Unless you can come up with something better than "Because Lee Stewart Says So", I for one choose to believe your sources that indicate that you are mistaken in your claims and are once again misleading the Good Readers of this forum.

IMHO, it's either time for you to support your claims with verifiable sources, or modify your claims to fit the available information.

Regards,

kelpie

Still not the perfect dual player.
For me to spend about $800 on a single player it better have 2.0 or at the very least a 2.0 upgrade path.

With a 1.0 only option, this player is still too expensive.

While not perfect I don't think the price is too astronomical. If you wanted 1080p 24 for BD and HD DVD playback you would need to get the XA2 and the PS3(not sure if any other BD players support 24hz). That alone will cost you around a grand.

For me, I am willing to pay the premium for form factor. I actually end up saving money buying the Sammy. My reciever has 5.1 analogs but I am not ready to upgrade my reciever.

If i wanted the most out of BD and HD DVD playback on the cheap i would need to get the S300, the A2, new receiver(prob. Onkyo 605) , and a couple more HDMI cables. That alone would cost about 1100 bucks.

It just makes sense, for me anyways, to get the UP5000.

kelpie, for your sake I do hope people buy the 1.0 BD players with the assumption that they will be 1.1 upgradeable via firmware. We'll just have to wait and see what develops. IF the upgrade path is smooth, it will certainly help the BD cause, but if these end up being crippled players it is plain to see that with so many G2 players being released, BD as a format will fail....so the CE players releasing these players must be aware of the implications here.....

What Lee was saying is that profile 1.1 not just a software upgrade when compared to profile 1.0, but also a hardware upgrade and players that do not have the hardware cannot be upgraded via firmware. Simple as that.

As for what talk says....I have comments :)

http://www.areadvd.de/news/2007/IFA_2007/31082007007_Samsung_Blu-ray_Disc.shtml

Euro price is 1000 Euros
USA price is 1050 Dollars
It is BD Profile 1.0!
TrueHD and DTSHD 7.1 Analogue Decoding Confirmed
All Audio formats passed over HDMI 1.3

Nice. Means it will be out no later than October 31, 2007. Waiting on the DTS-HD MA firmware upgradeable internal decoding part of the spec and I'm locked in.

http://www.areadvd.de/news/2007/IFA_2007/31082007007_Samsung_Blu-ray_Disc.shtml

Euro price is 1000 Euros
USA price is 1050 Dollars
It is BD Profile 1.0!
TrueHD and DTSHD 7.1 Analogue Decoding Confirmed
All Audio formats passed over HDMI 1.3

Sweet, this artical is saying that this will pass formats over BitStream to the AVR. Is this a confirmed source?

Nice. I have an older non-HDMI Pioneer receiver that does an excellent job and was curious about the analog outs on the Samsung. If this thing will decode all of the formats including DTS-HD MA, then I will be in heaven.

And as for the 2.0 profile thing, I could not care less. Give me 1080P video and lossless audio for both formats. That's all I need.

I hope they gave the player a good speaker setup for the analog outs. The one of the Samsung BD1000 was FUBAR.

Does seem kinda odd that analog outs are problematic. Wonder howcome?

kelpie, for your sake I do hope people buy the 1.0 BD players with the assumption that they will be 1.1 upgradeable via firmware. We'll just have to wait and see what develops. IF the upgrade path is smooth, it will certainly help the BD cause, but if these end up being crippled players it is plain to see that with so many G2 players being released, BD as a format will fail....so the CE players releasing these players must be aware of the implications here.....

Plazman, I would never recommend that people buy Profile 1.0 players on the assumption that they will be upgradeable via firmware to Profile 1.1- particularly if the Profile 1.1 features are important to them. There's just too much that could possibly go wrong with that scenario. But based on the available evidence neither would I emphatically insist that the upgrade path is "not possible" for any Profile 1.0 player.

What Lee was saying is that profile 1.1 not just a software upgrade when compared to profile 1.0, but also a hardware upgrade and players that do not have the hardware cannot be upgraded via firmware. Simple as that.

It's not quite that simple. Read what he said again. That is not what he said. Perhaps it is what he should have said (or even what he meant to say?), because I believe your statement to be true. But he said something completely different and then he dogmatically defended what he said.

As for what talk says....I have comments :)



Do you have any evidence that what Talkstr8t said is incorrect, or do you just have innuendo?

I have further information. I'm currently in Berlin (where IFA is underway). I was told here by a CE vendor exec who has announced new model(s) that, even though the players are shipping with 1.0, they do in fact intend to ship 1.1 (and possibly 2.0) support when possible. I've let the exec know that many people are standing on the sidelines for fear that their announced player(s) won't support 1.1 or 2.0, and that if in fact they will they should announce it ASAP.

I'm not willing to give hints on what vendor, as this is up to them to announce (or not), but I'm trying to help push the issue.

Wow so much talk these days about non video and audio quality related stuff; this seem to be turning more and more into a computer & gimmick site.

Maybe I missed it, but with the analog 7.1 outputs being of real interest to me, has there been any mention of what processor and DAC's this thing will be using?

Wow so much talk these days about non video and audio quality related stuff; this seem to be turning more and more into a computer & gimmick site.

Maybe I missed it, but with the analog 7.1 outputs being of real interest to me, has there been any mention of what processor and DAC's this thing will be using?


Ding, ding, ding we have a winner.

My assumtion when I first came was that this was an A/V enthusiast site. The more I read it, the less it seems AQ and PQ matter. It is more about profile compliancy/PiP/extras heaven. *shrug*

I guess that is what this site is about moreso than sqeaking out the best PQ/AQ available. In fairness though, it isnt called audio/videophile.com

Sweet, this artical is saying that this will pass formats over BitStream to the AVR. Is this a confirmed source?
Yes, the source seems to be the official Samsung press release, which can be found here (http://presse.samsung.de/press_meldung.asp?id=1719&page=3&jahr=2007&kategorie=Alle&suchwort=) ... :)