I have further information. I'm currently in Berlin (where IFA is underway). I was told here by a CE vendor exec who has announced new model(s) that, even though the players are shipping with 1.0, they do in fact intend to ship 1.1 (and possibly 2.0) support when possible. I've let the exec know that many people are standing on the sidelines for fear that their announced player(s) won't support 1.1 or 2.0, and that if in fact they will they should announce it ASAP.

I'm not willing to give hints on what vendor, as this is up to them to announce (or not), but I'm trying to help push the issue.

THAT IS BIG NEWS - Thanks TALK

My assumtion when I first came was that this was an A/V enthusiast site. The more I read it, the less it seems AQ and PQ matter. It is more about profile compliancy/PiP/extras heaven. *shrug*

I guess that is what this site is about moreso than sqeaking out the best PQ/AQ available. In fairness though, it isnt called audio/videophile.com

I sure can't disagree with your sentiments, but it was my understanding that the primary stated purpose of the A/V Science Forum is for technical discussion rather than the product reviews, product "anticipation" threads, cheerleading ("Hey, I just bought a neat new TV/receiver/etc!!") that so many of us enjoy and benefit from.

Yeah, in fairness the boring technical discussion should perhaps at least be tolerated. ;)

kelpie

Ding, ding, ding we have a winner.

My assumtion when I first came was that this was an A/V enthusiast site. The more I read it, the less it seems AQ and PQ matter. It is more about profile compliancy/PiP/extras heaven. *shrug*

I guess that is what this site is about moreso than sqeaking out the best PQ/AQ available. In fairness though, it isnt called audio/videophile.com

You say this as if profile compliance isn't related to sound and picture quality.

Regardless, if you don't like the discussion, why are you here?

I inquired about this units shipping date and here is the response I recieved....

"Good Morning Joe,

Well the estimated shipment for the Samsung would be between the 15th or 20th of September, in regards to your CC we charge customers card once his/her order already been ship. Please email me if you are interested in we will process it to you ASAP."

Best Regards,

A******* A****

Sales Account Executive

m not posying the name of the salesperson or the company name until i can verify it...but I was suprised at the shipping date.

I have further information. I'm currently in Berlin (where IFA is underway). I was told here by a CE vendor exec who has announced new model(s) that, even though the players are shipping with 1.0, they do in fact intend to ship 1.1 (and possibly 2.0) support when possible. I've let the exec know that many people are standing on the sidelines for fear that their announced player(s) won't support 1.1 or 2.0, and that if in fact they will they should announce it ASAP.

I'm not willing to give hints on what vendor, as this is up to them to announce (or not), but I'm trying to help push the issue.
Did Samsung make any annoucements on when they expect the BD-UP5000 to be delivered ?

Did Samsung make any annoucements on when they expect the BD-UP5000 to be delivered ?

SEPTEMBER 14-15 in the USA.

Posted on another thread :p

Does this mean the 2400 will pass the HBR or bitstream over HDMI as well?

Ding, ding, ding we have a winner.

My assumtion when I first came was that this was an A/V enthusiast site. The more I read it, the less it seems AQ and PQ matter. It is more about profile compliancy/PiP/extras heaven. *shrug*

I guess that is what this site is about moreso than sqeaking out the best PQ/AQ available. In fairness though, it isnt called audio/videophile.com

While I somewhat see what you're saying its not completely true. These are new and evolving technologies so discussing and understanding the different specs and technical aspects is pretty relevant at this point. It will be nice when all of it is sorted out and the only thing we have to worry about is audio and video quality.

I definitely could have done without the last few pages of rants though.

Also, keep in mind that being pragmatic and understanding that the best or highest AQ or PQ won't decide the format war for the general, mass-consuption public does not necessarily mean that in a hypothetical world that many AV enthusiasts wouldn't want the highest possible AQ or PQ.

The other issue at play is the concept of "spec'd" versus "visually or audibly discernable" -- not many people can argue against higher specs if we're talking purely hypothetical, but as soon as you take the discussion into the very real realm of what can be perceived by most people, most of the time, and on most equipment (even high quality A/V equipment), the discussion changes and becomes codified into (mostly) two camps: 1) those who want (and are willing to pay) for every last millimeter of spec'd performance (whether it can be empirically proven that it can actually be perceived), and 2) those who question the validity of "better specs" as they translate to the real world and don't mind paying a significantly reduced amount of money for a format that is 99.x% "as good as" the purportedly better spec'd product.

I don't think considering performance / value makes one any less of an A/V enthusiast . . . just a more financially restrained (or perhaps judicious?).

You say this as if profile compliance isn't related to sound and picture quality.

Regardless, if you don't like the discussion, why are you here?

I was referring to a specific post, obvioulsy you didnt see that. There is some infomation to be gained, release dates, sales figures, industry news.

Oh yeah and players like this that I may be interested in. Thanks for worrying about my internet habits though. ;)


These pages and pages of repitition are horrible though. Every now and then a useful thread comes along.

Also, keep in mind that being pragmatic and understanding that the best or highest AQ or PQ won't decide the format war for the general, mass-consuption public does not necessarily mean that in a hypothetical world that many AV enthusiasts wouldn't want the highest possible AQ or PQ.

The other issue at play is the concept of "spec'd" versus "visually or audibly discernable" -- not many people can argue against higher specs if we're talking purely hypothetical, but as soon as you take the discussion into the very real realm of what can be perceived by most people, most of the time, and on most equipment (even high quality A/V equipment), the discussion changes and becomes codified into (mostly) two camps: 1) those who want (and are willing to pay) for every last millimeter of spec'd performance (whether it can be empirically proven that it can actually be perceived), and 2) those who question the validity of "better specs" as they translate to the real world and don't mind paying a significantly reduced amount of money for a format that is 99.x% "as good as" the purportedly better spec'd product.

I don't think considering performance / value makes one any less of an A/V enthusiast . . . just a more financially restrained (or perhaps judicious?).

Different strokes for different folks. I just subscribe to "every little bit counts" when it comes to AQ and PQ.

While I somewhat see what you're saying its not completely true. These are new and evolving technologies so discussing and understanding the different specs and technical aspects is pretty relevant at this point. It will be nice when all of it is sorted out and the only thing we have to worry about is audio and video quality.

I definitely could have done without the last few pages of rants though.

It sure will.

I have further information. I'm currently in Berlin (where IFA is underway). I was told here by a CE vendor exec who has announced new model(s) that, even though the players are shipping with 1.0, they do in fact intend to ship 1.1 (and possibly 2.0) support when possible. I've let the exec know that many people are standing on the sidelines for fear that their announced player(s) won't support 1.1 or 2.0, and that if in fact they will they should announce it ASAP.

I'm not willing to give hints on what vendor, as this is up to them to announce (or not), but I'm trying to help push the issue.



Anything on this yet talk?

Anything on this yet talk?

He already answered all those questions from Berlin

Damn, I knew I should have took German in high school! :D

He already answered all those questions from Berlin

Sorry that is the last post I saw on the subject, what thread?

Thanks

Sorry that is the last post I saw on the subject, what thread?

Thanks

I agree that was TALK's last post from Berlin.

I'm sure he is drinking now. :D:confused:

BUT that post seemed to have all the answers
about being able to upgrade the 5000.

I have been wondering between the 2400 and the 5000. I do have the XA2 and if the 2400 does everything the 5000 does (except play HD DVDs) I should be good right? But what if Toshiba is still slooooow at getting the XA2 a new firmware? Damn, which one should I get???

It is BD Profile 1.0!
TrueHD and DTSHD 7.1 Analogue Decoding Confirmed
Waiting on the DTS-HD MA firmware upgradeable internal decoding part of the spec and I'm locked in.
Works for me. I've been waiting for 7.1 analogue everything.I have further information. I'm currently in Berlin (where IFA is underway). I was told here by a CE vendor exec who has announced new model(s) that, even though the players are shipping with 1.0, they do in fact intend to ship 1.1 (and possibly 2.0) support when possible. I've let the exec know that many people are standing on the sidelines for fear that their announced player(s) won't support 1.1 or 2.0, and that if in fact they will they should announce it ASAP.That leaves some hope. Now, if it can street under 1k in loonies, I'm finally on this crazy train.

Glad to here is will support bitstream output as well which wasn't mentioned on the ABT spec website.

Same here! Now I just need to decide which unit to go with. Common sense says one player would be a heck of a lot easier to deal with. But what if it breaks down? Having two is helpful in an emergency... I could go the 2400 route then either get the new A35 or just keep my XA2 (if it gets firmware updated soon)... Or just get the 5000 and not worry about the HD DVD players... Damn, I need to make a decision... :eek:

I think I will just stick with the 2400 and a HD DVD player. I like having two players. One can be used for pre movie slides and previews while the other one has the movie ready to go. It's the right choice for my theater... :)

I was told... even though the players are shipping with 1.0, they do in fact intend to ship 1.1 (and possibly 2.0) support when possible...

... that post seemed to have all the answers about being able to upgrade the 5000.

Sorry, but that doesn't sound like a clear indication that this player will be firmware upgradeable to 1.1 or 2.0 , like via ethernet. Maybe all that exec meant by "ship support" was they would ship revised versions of the player later on down the road. Sounds like he's leaving the door open to screw the folks who buy the 1.0 players.

Or, is there more information...? ;) :D

Look, I (and I'm sure all of us) really appreciate Talk's inside info and his pressing of the issue. I just don't see how this post answers all our questions.

;11486906']Sorry, but that doesn't sound like a clear indication that this player will be firmware upgradeable to 1.1 or 2.0 , like via ethernet. Maybe all that exec meant by "ship support" was they would ship revised versions of the player later on down the road. Sounds like he's leaving the door open to screw the folks who buy the 1.0 players.

Or, is there more information...? ;) :D

Look, I (and I'm sure all of us) really appreciate Talk's inside info and his pressing of the issue. I just don't see how this post answers all our questions.

There are no guarantees in life and no guarantees
for EARLY [Bleeding Edge] Technology Adopters.

I remember when I had to throw out my 1st $1500
DVD player [1996] after one year because it would
not support DTS.

It the price of fun - much chapter than doing DRUGS.
I can sell my old gear on eBay.

;11486906']Sorry, but that doesn't sound like a clear indication that this player will be firmware upgradeable to 1.1 or 2.0 , like via ethernet. Maybe all that exec meant by "ship support" was they would ship revised versions of the player later on down the road. Sounds like he's leaving the door open to screw the folks who buy the 1.0 players. The initial shipment of the player(s) in question would be firmware upgradeable, not new hardware being shipped. No one should be purchasing a new Samsung player based on this information, however, because a)I haven't identified the vendor, and there are several vendors with new 1.0 players coming, and b)even though the exec said the vendor would do this if possible, it's not the exec's decision, (s)he's merely an influencer.

I don't know if I'll learn anything else for weeks, if ever. Until the vendor is certain they can deliver the firmware update, I'd be surprised if they'll commit to anything, and the process of finishing and testing a firmware update could take a month or longer.

- Talk

The initial shipment of the player(s) in question would be firmware upgradeable, not new hardware being shipped. No one should be purchasing a new Samsung player based on this information, however, because a)I haven't identified the vendor, and there are several vendors with new 1.0 players coming, and b)even though the exec said the vendor would do this if possible, it's not the exec's decision, (s)he's merely an influencer.

I don't know if I'll learn anything else for weeks, if ever. Until the vendor is certain they can deliver the firmware update, I'd be surprised if they'll commit to anything, and the process of finishing and testing a firmware update could take a month or longer.

- Talk

Thanks for the clarification. :D

There are no guarantees in life and no guarantees
for EARLY [Bleeding Edge] Technology Adopters.

I remember when I had to throw out my 1st $1500
DVD player [1996] after one year because it would
not support DTS.

It the price of fun - much chapter than doing DRUGS.
I can sell my old gear on eBay.My Pio DVL-909 still lives! And no DTS either.

Since the likeliest opportunity for me to purchase would be closer to X-mas, I figure most of the audio and profile issues to be worked out, one way or another. But, yeah. Give me a few good years before it turns into a brick and I'll be happy.

From the IFA via worf over on the HCFR-

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/1940/136rv2.jpg
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/8026/135uj4.jpg
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/6628/015vj9.jpg

There are no guarantees in life and no guarantees
for EARLY [Bleeding Edge] Technology Adopters.

I remember when I had to throw out my 1st $1500
DVD player [1996] after one year because it would
not support DTS.

It the price of fun - much chapter than doing DRUGS.
I can sell my old gear on eBay.

Tell me you didn't really throw it out. ;)

I still have my Toshiba 5109 (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_1/toshiba-5109-dvd-player-2-2000.html). One of the very first progressive scan DVD players on the market. Complete with the chrome bug and all!

Ah... the good times we had together. Now, she just sits on the component rack unplugged. Poor ol' girl.

Tell me you didn't really throw it out. ;)



Threw it out in 1997 - 1 year after I bought it.
There was NO eBay then ;)

Threw it out in 1997 - 1 year after I bought it.
There was NO eBay then ;)

Ebay started in 1995.
So looks like you lost out.

Ebay started in 1995.
So looks like you lost out.

WOW - I did not think it was that OLD.

I must have been Asleep http://www.rx8web.com/smilies/bouncy.gif

So any word on what audio processor and DAC's this thing is using?

I haven't posted much, if at all, but I do have a question. Based on everyone else asking about bitstream over HDMI, I thought that wasn't really possible. The FAQ in the receiver thread about why HDMI 1.3 isn't all that important explains that no HD-DVD and very limited BRD, if any, are encoded in the "Basic" format. They are encoded as "Advanced" which doesn't allow for bitstream over HDMI. The player HAS to decode to multichannel PCM and send that. Am I missing something or is everyone expecting this to be the first player to send bitstream lossless audio? Thanks for helping me understand as I am very confused after reading this thread. I have so much to learn.

I haven't posted much, if at all, but I do have a question. Based on everyone else asking about bitstream over HDMI, I thought that wasn't really possible. The FAQ in the receiver thread about why HDMI 1.3 isn't all that important explains that no HD-DVD and very limited BRD, if any, are encoded in the "Basic" format. They are encoded as "Advanced" which doesn't allow for bitstream over HDMI. The player HAS to decode to multichannel PCM and send that. Am I missing something or is everyone expecting this to be the first player to send bitstream lossless audio? Thanks for helping me understand as I am very confused after reading this thread. I have so much to learn.

I have no definite answer but I think that chances that the player will pass bitstream over HDMI are really low.:(

I am starting to wonder that to. Their press releases lately are claiming ALL three players coming will. I will have the 1400 shortly and will test it the second I open it. I will then shortly after that have a 2400 and do the same. I guess we shall see...

I am starting to wonder that to. Their press releases lately are claiming ALL three players coming will. I will have the 1400 shortly and will test it the second I open it. I will then shortly after that have a 2400 and do the same. I guess we shall see...

Joerod, you ordered both? How can you swing that?;)

Actually I may or may not keep the 1400. I really want the 2400 as my dedicated Blu ray player for my theater. Since my wife insists on keeping the 94HD in the livingroom. If the 94HD was a little cheaper I would have gotten two! Anyway, the 1400 could end up in our bedroom. My Blu ray catalog is growing more and more so won't hurt to have a few players around...

Actually I may or may not keep the 1400. I really want the 2400 as my dedicated Blu ray player for my theater. Since my wife insists on keeping the 94HD in the livingroom. If the 94HD was a little cheaper I would have gotten two! Anyway, the 1400 could end up in our bedroom. My Blu ray catalog is growing more and more so won't hurt to have a few players around...

You should see the pictures of his home theater over in the Onkyo 905 thread ... really impressive!:D

Thanks, it's just becasue I am sick like that... I even have a LCD in my masterbath! :eek:

Thanks, it's just becasue I am sick like that... I even have a LCD in my masterbath! :eek:

So do I :D Doesn't EVERYONE? :p

I now have 7 HD DVRs! That alone makes me sick! :D
And not to mention it also makes DirecTV rich! :eek:

I now have 7 HD DVRs! That alone makes me sick! :D
And not to mention it also makes DirecTV rich! :eek:

You beat me - I only have 5 HD DVRs but
they are all SONYs - so there are free - I
don't PAY ANYONE to use them http://www.rx8web.com/smilies/bouncy.gif http://www.rx8web.com/smilies/bouncy.gif http://www.rx8web.com/smilies/bouncy.gif http://www.rx8web.com/smilies/bouncy.gif http://www.rx8web.com/smilies/bouncy.gif

The FAQ in the receiver thread about why HDMI 1.3 isn't all that important explains that no HD-DVD and very limited BRD, if any, are encoded in the "Basic" format. They are encoded as "Advanced" which doesn't allow for bitstream over HDMI.

This restriction seems to have been rescinded, at least for HD-DVD. The next gen Toshibas, and the second one with the next firmware, should allow to pass the bitstream with all disks.

Dito for the Onkyo.

Yea there are ways around anything. Bitstream I believe is possible. After all, they say that by DEFAULT, its set to not allow bitstream on advanced. Something on or off by default is just a setting. Proper firmware can fix that.

Does anyone know if the ethernet port will allow for playback of music, photos and video via networked PC's (similar to the PS3 and the 94HD)?

Does anyone know if the ethernet port will allow for playback of music, photos and video via networked PC's (similar to the PS3 and the 94HD)?
In response to my own question, it appears that the ethernet port is for firmware upgrades and HD interactivity.

So now my question is- will the ethernet port be able to playback music, video and photos via networked PC's with a potential firmware upgrade or any other way?

This restriction seems to have been rescinded, at least for HD-DVD. The next gen Toshibas, and the second one with the next firmware, should allow to pass the bitstream with all disks.

Dito for the Onkyo.

Help me understand, does passing the bitstream mean that the player decodes, Dolby True HD or DTS HD/MA , and passes it through the digital coax vs. hdmi? If it only passes the undecoded signal to the receiver via hdmi 1.3 to decode, does that assume the receivers that do decode these are better than the players?
joe

Passing the bitstream means the player doesn't decode; it sends the bitstream (TrueHD, etc) to the receiver for decoding, just like legacy codecs are usually done. The issue with this is some of the things HD DVD is capable of wouldn't be possible/pracitcal, like PiP with audio. There was also a question of whether you could hear player generated "button noises" and the like. Apparenty, as with the 24 fps restriction, they must have decided on a "pure movie" mode, which just sends out the main audio stream. This will be especially helpful to anyone with a DTS-HD capbable receiver (most of the new 1.3 HDMI receiver decode this); and discs with that codec (lot's of european releases I believe).

I have a Sony KDS50A2000 and I understand that the LG BH 100 will not display 1080p on my set. Will the Samsung BD-UP5000 display 1080p in both HD DVD and Blu Ray on my Sony?? Thanks for any help!

I have a Sony KDS50A2000 and I understand that the LG BH 100 will not display 1080p on my set. Will the Samsung BD-UP5000 display 1080p in both HD DVD and Blu Ray on my Sony?? Thanks for any help!

Yes. :cool:

Apparently the Duo Player uses Broadcom 7440, per article here (http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/LATU07304092007-1.htm).

I haven't posted much, if at all, but I do have a question. Based on everyone else asking about bitstream over HDMI, I thought that wasn't really possible. The FAQ in the receiver thread about why HDMI 1.3 isn't all that important explains that no HD-DVD and very limited BRD, if any, are encoded in the "Basic" format. They are encoded as "Advanced" which doesn't allow for bitstream over HDMI. The player HAS to decode to multichannel PCM and send that. Am I missing something or is everyone expecting this to be the first player to send bitstream lossless audio? My understanding is that Blu-ray doesn't have the same "basic" vs "advanced" paradigm as HD DVD does with regards to audio handling. With Blu-ray the primary audio is always available via all outputs, whether decoded in the player or decoded in the AVR. This means you'll always hear, at a minimum, the primary movie soundtrack. Secondary audio (i.e. director's commentary not simply mastered as an alternate primary audio track) and sound effects (menu sounds, etc.) will only be available if you decode in the player.

I've seen suggestions that HD DVD handles things differently, but I'll leave that for someone on that side to clarify.

Apparently the Duo Player uses Broadcom 7440, per article here (http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/LATU07304092007-1.htm).

That is good news.
Looks like 1.1 is a no brainer.
2.0 though....was there a mention of a SD slot on this thing like the Denon players?

That is good news.
Looks like 1.1 is a no brainer.
2.0 though....was there a mention of a SD slot on this thing like the Denon players?You'd think, but they still haven't announced support for it. I'm guessing they are waiting for compliance testing, etc; then may enable via firmware; as it looks like it has the hardware needed (at least for 1.1, if not 2.0, depending on how much memory it has).

Apparently the Duo Player uses Broadcom 7440, per article here (http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/LATU07304092007-1.htm).

Interesting. Thanks Enigma. The same press release can also be found on Broadcom's website here (http://www.broadcom.com/press/release.php?id=1047516) if anyone feels the need to confirm the CNNMoney.com report.

Note in the second paragraph of the press release Broadcom says that their BCM7440 SoC is, "Available in mass production today". One could hope that Broadcom's production capacity for this chip wouldn't affect the release date for Samsung's BD-UP5000.

Interesting. Thanks Enigma. The same press release can also be found on Broadcom's website here (http://www.broadcom.com/press/release.php?id=1047516) if anyone feels the need to confirm the CNNMoney.com report.

Note in the second paragraph of the press release Broadcom says that their BCM7440 SoC is, "Available in mass production today". One could hope that Broadcom's production capacity for this chip wouldn't affect the release date for Samsung's BD-UP5000.

Broadcom outsources the production of this chip, most likely to Taiwan Semiconductor. Availability shouldn't be a problem.

Someone Please explain this . . .

RIGHT FROM BROADCOM's WEBSITE:

BCM7440
SoC Solution for Blu-ray™, HD DVD™ and Universal HD DVD Players
The BCM7440 SoC is a Blu-ray and HD DVD player on one chip. Its high-performance design integrates dual MIPS execution units, dual-stream video decoders, dedicated graphics engines, 7.1 audio capability, security processor, a hardware still image decoder, dual DDR2 interfaces, video and audio outputs, and a full array of system and connectivity interfaces.

The BCM7440 is supported with a complete reference design, the BCM97440, and a software stack that includes support for Blu-ray (Profile 1.0 and 2.0) and HD DVD HDi and Navigator. Choosing a solution that is based on field-proven technology already shipping in existing platforms from leading OEMs will ensure full Blu-ray/HD DVD compatibility.

http://www.broadcom.com/products/Consumer-Electronics/Blu-ray-and-HD-DVD-System-Solutions/BCM7440

Someone Please explain this . . . What's to explain?

What's to explain?

What happened to 1.1 - DS PIP?

This does not look the same as the SIGMA 8634 Rev.C spec which claims 1.1 and 2.0.

Apparently the Duo Player uses Broadcom 7440, per article here (http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/LATU07304092007-1.htm).

Some interesting stuff in this article:

"Both formats offer high definition video at 1080p resolution, picture-in-picture video..."

"Robust and proven universal optical disc (UOD) software stack reduces development risks and supports all Blu-ray and HD DVD profiles."

Looks like Profile 1.1 could really be possible. :)

What happened to 1.1 - DS PIP?

This does not look the same as the SIGMA 8634 Rev.C spec which claims 1.1 and 2.0.

A 2.0 player has all 1.1 features plus those unique to 2.0.

What happened to 1.1 - DS PIP?1.1 is a made-up term. You won't find it in the BD-ROM specification. The proper terms are "Profile 1 (Grace Period Profile)", "Profile 1 (Final Standard Profile), and "Profile 2 (BD-Live)". The Broadcom datasheet is simply using proper terminology (especially since Profile 2 is a superset of Profile 1/1.1).

1.1 is a made-up term. You won't find it in the BD-ROM specification. The proper terms are "Profile 1 (Grace Period Profile)", "Profile 1 (Final Standard Profile), and "Profile 2 (BD-Live)". The Broadcom datasheet is simply using proper terminology (especially since Profile 2 is a superset of Profile 1/1.1).

So Denon, Daewoo and Wiki are all wrong? They all use the term Profile 1.1 to denote DS PIP.

From Wiki:

1.1 (mandatory November 2007) is typically referred to as "Profile 1.1" (but is more formally known as "Final Standard Profile") adds a secondary video decoder (typically used for picture in picture), secondary audio (typically used for interactive audio and commentary) and capability of supporting a minimum of 256 MB of local storage
Denon Profile 1.1 Delayed to Q2 2008?

According to AV Zombie, Denon has delayed their previously announced DVD-3800BDCI Blu-ray player until Q2 2008. They are also conceding that someone else will most likely be the first to ship a “Profile 1.1″ Blu-ray player. This is according to Denon UK’s Roger Batchelor. We are unsure if this includes the U.S. Model, or if it only pertains to the European launch window


?

Well, I still have an order in with the onsale.com guys for the dual Samsung. I'll let you know what happens.

Does anyone know if onsale.com is an authorized Samsung dealer? They do not appear on this list:

http://www.samsung.com/peaceofmind/ceddealers.htm

Does anyone know if onsale.com is an authorized Samsung dealer? They do not appear on this list:

http://www.samsung.com/peaceofmind/ceddealers.htm

No

From the online testimonials I've read about OnSale.com I'd stay farther away from them than a hooker with a raging case of the clap. For me it's worth a little extra cash to order from a reputable dealer like Amazon or one of the AVS Forum sponsors.

From the online testimonials I've read about OnSale.com I'd stay farther away from them than a hooker with a raging case of the clap. For me it's worth a little extra cash to order from a reputable dealer like Amazon or one of the AVS Forum sponsors.

My feelings exactly - Amazon has my order.

So Denon, Daewoo and Wiki are all wrong? They all use the term Profile 1.1 to denote DS PIP.



"Profile 1.1" is just the colloquial (informal, slang, made up) term for "Profile 1 (Final Standard Profile)". Denon and Daewoo aren't really wrong, they're just not using the "official" terminology. You'll see that the Wiki article that you keep quoting tries to explain this (if you look carefully), but doesn't do it well.

It really isn't a difficult concept...if you open your mind to it.

I called them and they were just interested in charging my credit card ASAP. They did not even care that it was not in stock or wouldn't be for weeks! :eek:

I called them and they were just interested in charging my credit card ASAP. They did not even care that it was not in stock or wouldn't be for weeks! :eek:

Since they are not even a Samsung Dealer
- PROBABLY MUCH LONGER THAN WEEKS. :mad:

under $750 is a pretty good price for this I'd say.

Under 750 would be enough to make me jump at it. As long as it is not from onsale that is... :)

My feelings exactly - Amazon has my order.

How, it's not even available for pre-order yet on Amazon? :confused:

I think he means as soon as it is available for pre order..

Under 750 would be enough to make me jump at it. As long as it is not from onsale that is... :)

Did they credit your credit card since you actually ordered from them per your posts in the other thread??

I have further information. I'm currently in Berlin (where IFA is underway). I was told here by a CE vendor exec who has announced new model(s) that, even though the players are shipping with 1.0, they do in fact intend to ship 1.1 (and possibly 2.0) support when possible. I've let the exec know that many people are standing on the sidelines for fear that their announced player(s) won't support 1.1 or 2.0, and that if in fact they will they should announce it ASAP.

I'm not willing to give hints on what vendor, as this is up to them to announce (or not), but I'm trying to help push the issue.

So what does this mean exactly when you say "ship"? Are you talking that the first players will never support 1.1 or 2.0 and people who buy them later on will get the newer profiles, or that they will update them via a firmware update (assuming they have the proper hardware to support it)?

So what does this mean exactly when you say "ship"? Are you talking that the first players will never support 1.1 or 2.0 and people who buy them later on will get the newer profiles, or that they will update them via a firmware update (assuming they have the proper hardware to support it)?

You quoted Talkstr8t's post #747. Did you read a little further down the thread and see his post #775?

The initial shipment of the player(s) in question would be firmware upgradeable, not new hardware being shipped. No one should be purchasing a new Samsung player based on this information, however, because a)I haven't identified the vendor, and there are several vendors with new 1.0 players coming, and b)even though the exec said the vendor would do this if possible, it's not the exec's decision, (s)he's merely an influencer.

I don't know if I'll learn anything else for weeks, if ever. Until the vendor is certain they can deliver the firmware update, I'd be surprised if they'll commit to anything, and the process of finishing and testing a firmware update could take a month or longer.

- Talk

Here are the latest specs for the BD-UP5000 (from CEDIA 2007 correspondent)...

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/showthread.php?t=261869

Highlights
=======
Blu-Ray & HD-DVD playback at 1080P 24fps
Dolby True-HD support
DTS-HD MA support (through firmware upgrade)
HDMI 1.3 digital interface
BD-J & HDi support
Ethernet port

$999 estimated price
Available 4Q 2007

If I find this thing for sale online for around $700-$800 (from a reputable dealer) on release day, I'll order one right then and there.

Same here. The Samsung BD-UP5000 has everything I need for now. I'm really looking forward to this hybrid player.

So Denon, Daewoo and Wiki are all wrong? They all use the term Profile 1.1 to denote DS PIP.

From Wiki:

Denon Profile 1.1 Delayed to Q2 2008?

?

Hello Lee, Talk is correct. I think I pointed out this profile link to you a while ago, but here it is again in case you can't find it:

http://www.emedialive.com/articles/readarticle.aspx?articleid=11397#iij

Here are the latest specs for the BD-UP5000 (from CEDIA 2007 correspondent)...

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/showthread.php?t=261869

Highlights
=======
Blu-Ray & HD-DVD playback at 1080P 24fps
Dolby True-HD support
DTS-HD MA support (through firmware upgrade)
HDMI 1.3 digital interface
BD-J & HDi support
Ethernet port

$999 estimated price
Available 4Q 2007

That just looks like a lift of the spec sheet which has already been posted.

Here are the latest specs for the BD-UP5000 (from CEDIA 2007 correspondent)...

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/showthread.php?t=261869

Highlights
=======
Blu-Ray & HD-DVD playback at 1080P 24fps
Dolby True-HD support
DTS-HD MA support (through firmware upgrade)
HDMI 1.3 digital interface
BD-J & HDi support
Ethernet port

$999 estimated price
Available 4Q 2007

Looks like that leaked pdf was on the money and I'm on this like white trash on Britney :)

how do you all think the Sammy will compare to the new LG 2nd generation dual coming out next month at $999. i haven't found any specs on it to compare myself. but if the Sammy does indeed street at 7-800 $ what could LG offer for the extra cash?

http://www.electronichouse.com/article/lg_dual_high_def_dvd_player_coming_next_month/C157

Nice! Competition is always good.

Big selling point for me on the UP5000 is the HQV upscaling. Sammy has already shown they can do a great job implementing this chipset in their 1200 model. I don't know if the LG has the same chip but even if they do, I'd still go with the company that has already shown they know what they're doing.

Big selling point for me on the UP5000 is the HQV upscaling. Sammy has already shown they can do a great job implementing this chipset in their 1200 model. I don't know if the LG has the same chip but even if they do, I'd still go with the company that has already shown they know what they're doing.That's true; and I think esp. important for a dual-format player. Because this would provide a chance to eliminate all other disc players from the equation (could do BD, HD DVD, excellent upscaling DVD, CD, etc).

I'm sure that LG doesn't offer the Reon, as there's been no mention of that. I don't know what kind of chip that they do use (anybody know how the upconversion was on the previous LG dual player?).

That's true; and I think esp. important for a dual-format player. Because this would provide a chance to eliminate all other disc players from the equation (could do BD, HD DVD, excellent upscaling DVD, CD, etc).

I'm sure that LG doesn't offer the Reon, as there's been no mention of that. I don't know what kind of chip that they do use (anybody know how the upconversion was on the previous LG dual player?).
This is the only thing I've seen posted so far about their video processing.


The player will also include QDEO Advanced Video Processing technology from partner Marvel. The system is said to provide “superior up-scaling accuracy, noise reduction and color precision.”

DTS-HD MA support (through firmware upgrade)
My experiences with any samsung product is Good-luck-with-future-upgrade, you may find them in the next 6 months on new model. :)

My experiences with any samsung product is Good-luck-with-future-upgrade, you may find them in the next 6 months on new model. :)

Can you fill us in, I haven't been really paying attention since I bought my Samsung HD-950 upconverting DVD player.

My experiences with any samsung product is Good-luck-with-future-upgrade, you may find them in the next 6 months on new model. :)
Really ?

BD-P1000 firmware update (http://www.samsung.com/us/support/download/supportDown.do?group=mp3audiovideo&type=blu_ray&subtype=blu_raydiscplayers&model_nm=BD-P1000&language=&dType=D&mType=FM&vType=R) :)

.

Fresh info

http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9771594-7.html

Interesting, seems that onboard DTS-HD + MA is not settled... If it's bitstream I'm bailing.

$1050 MSRP?

I was hoping for this bad boy to be priced around 700-800 :(

$1050 MSRP?

I was hoping for this bad boy to be priced around 700-800 :(

There's a chance it might street around $800 but let's see what's streeting first...

I just pre ordered one for $793.00

I just pre ordered one for $793.00


You didn't get it from OnSale.com, did you? If so, I'd seriously re-think the decision as "shady" doesn't even begin to describe their reputation.

I second the On Sale caution.

CD

I've never had a problem with them (onSale.com).

I've never had a problem with them (onSale.com).

You must be one of the "lucky" ones.

http://reviews.pricegrabber.com/onsalecom/r/2270/

http://www0.shopping.com/xMR-onsale~MRD-310764~S-1

Well, I just went to amazon and they have the player listed to be available on Nov.1, 2007 but still no price.


.

Over in the Blu-Ray hardware section, there is a posting that the 2400 (on which the BR part of the 5000 is based) has been delayed until November... I really want to see what this player can do, especially since I have gotton so many mixed reviews of the 1200. Speculation is that they are trying to get the 1.1 stuff up and running....?

Well, they just made the annoucement yesterday that they decided to use the Broadcom chip. I hope that they already knew that and had the hardware/software/player already built/spec'd and they were just making an annoucement.

If they still have to design the architecture/hardware and write SW for this player, I can see why it may take a while before it hits the market.

Does anyone know if the 5000 will pass TruHD and DD+ over analog?

Really ?

BD-P1000 firmware update (http://www.samsung.com/us/support/download/supportDown.do?group=mp3audiovideo&type=blu_ray&subtype=blu_raydiscplayers&model_nm=BD-P1000&language=&dType=D&mType=FM&vType=R) :)

.

I could be wrong, i do believe the 1k or 1200 got ONLY one Fw update so far.. and that's it. They are done with 2 generation of product... I never said never, just said good luck with Samsung's upgrade. :)

Now count how many Panasonic has done with their 10/10a.

FYI, this unit had issues demo one of the format at IFA, tried and failed with few disc. Hope they find a workable disc at cedia. I can't wait for the "LG " first dual-format player's dejavu on this all over again.

You didn't get it from OnSale.com, did you? If so, I'd seriously re-think the decision as "shady" doesn't even begin to describe their reputation.

Thanks for the heads up as I was concerned about buying from the internet...however, I checked the links regarding the feedback from this company and most all of them complain about getting "rebates" from ordered product. There is an "instant rebate" applied to this player so I dont have to worry about that and the sales person has been in constant communication with me. Also, they seem to be VERY cautious in regards to fraud and scams that I didnt mind calling them to verify my cc details and such.
If I have any issues though I will certainly post them here so that everyone will be aware.

Ronan,

So, who did you order from?

Interesting, seems that onboard DTS-HD + MA is not settled... If it's bitstream I'm bailing.

same thing here. Without onboard DTS-HD + MA decoder it s as useless as all other players for me. I have, lot LOTS of people!, an HDMI 1.1 receiver from Denon which can RECEIVE all advanced audio codecs but cannot decode it. Hopefully players will come to the market that has DTS-HD+MA decoders onboard. For now the Samsung 5000 looks like a no-go player for me.

Over in the Blu-Ray hardware section, there is a posting that the 2400 (on which the BR part of the 5000 is based) has been delayed until November... I really want to see what this player can do, especially since I have gotton so many mixed reviews of the 1200. Speculation is that they are trying to get the 1.1 stuff up and running....?I don't know if it's speculation as much as it is hope :p. But it would seem likely that the two are related, just because the Sammy 2400 isn't that much different than the existing 1200, other than a couple of audio decoders and a different SoC; so either there are (still) yield or other issues with the 7440, or they are working on advanced profiles. I also don't know how the BD "rule" works; if it's announced prior to the deadline but not released (as in shipping), is it still required to support FSP? Or is the announcement good enough to get them off the hook?

Well, they just made the annoucement yesterday that they decided to use the Broadcom chip. I hope that they already knew that and had the hardware/software/player already built/spec'd and they were just making an annoucement.

If they still have to design the architecture/hardware and write SW for this player, I can see why it may take a while before it hits the market.IIRC the 7440 (an earlier version of it) was supposed to go into the existing Sammy 1200; and due to rumored yield issues with the chip they ended up with the older 7411. Sammy has used broadcom chips for all their BD players, to my knowledge. I think the timing of the announcement had more to do with the presumably immenent release; maybe the 1400 uses the same chip; I haven't seen that reported (or was it in the announcement?). The 1400 is already showing up in stores, according to posts in the BD player section.

I have my fingers crossed that they'll be able to do something with advanced profiles, at least via firmware; as I really like the Reon, advertised audio support, and looks of the player better than the LG. If it turns out that this player won't ever support advanced profiles I may wait till the next round.

I also don't know how the BD "rule" works; if it's announced prior to the deadline but not released (as in shipping), is it still required to support FSP? Or is the announcement good enough to get them off the hook?



Talkstr8t covered announced vs. released in post #531 where he says:

The intent of the grace period is that players released (i.e. first shipped) to the market after 10/31 must be 1.1 or 2.0 compliant. It has nothing to do with when something is announced.

If Samsung releases the player as a Profile 1.0 player they will have to release it before 11/1 to be compliant with BDA standards. Otherwise they will have to update the player to Profile 1.1 (or 2.0), or release it as a non-compliant player similar to what LG did with their first duo-HD player (that didn't meet HD DVD standards). Or, perhaps the Blu-ray Disc Assn. could change the deadline. I suppose that waiting for Profile 1.1 or 2.0 could delay the release further.

I would prefer a later release, if the player would support all profiles from the beginning.
That's much better than buying it and waiting for a possible new firmware, that might never appear.

I am waiting for the perfect HD-Player so long, that I don't care if I have to wait some additional weeks, in order to get a "more perfect" player.

I couldn't care less if it had i, b of y 1.1 / 3.0 interactivity, whatever. All it has to do well is 1080/24 with the new sound formats via analog for both bd and hd dvd. If it can cope that for under 800 i'm happy :D

So do we gt 5 free Blu-ray disks and 5 free HD DVD disks with this deal? LOL

O.K. Where do we sign up for a VALID pre-order. I don't mean OnSale ... or Broadway Photo.

So do we gt 5 free Blu-ray disks and 5 free HD DVD disks with this deal? LOL

O.K. Where do we sign up for a VALID pre-order. I don't mean OnSale ... or Broadway Photo.
I hope so since Toshiba is extending it's 5 free HD DVD's until next year(2/2008) for all the new players.

Does anyone know if the 5000 will pass TruHD and DD+ over analog?

I don't believe any player will pass dolby true hd and dolby digital + over analog outs. The player will decode the audio first before sending it to the analog outputs.

The player will probably pass the those audio formats through hdmi only.

The real news is that Toshiba is offering 15 titles that don't generally suck (I hope) in place of the current selections.

So do we gt 5 free Blu-ray disks and 5 free HD DVD disks with this deal? LOL

O.K. Where do we sign up for a VALID pre-order. I don't mean OnSale ... or Broadway Photo.

ONE CALL is excellent online dealer in Spokane, Washington. They have both the 2400 and 5000 up for pre-order. They told me yesterday that they were expecting the 2400 in late September but the delay posts here in this thread may be newer info?

Dude, if this thing doesn't Decode DTS HD-HR and MA onboard... NO go for me! :(

SO CLOSE TO A PERFECT PLAYER...

same thing here. Without onboard DTS-HD + MA decoder it is as useless as all other players for me. I have, lot LOTS of people!, an HDMI 1.1 receiver from Denon which can RECEIVE all advanced audio codecs but cannot decode it. Hopefully players will come to the market that has DTS-HD+MA decoders onboard. For now the Samsung 5000 looks like a no-go player for me.


Same goes for me!!

Paul

Can I get an update here? With all this news/posts, I am affraid I have lost track.

Is the below official by Samsung:

With an HDMI 1.3 AVR, will this player pass DTS-HD/MA and Dolby TrueHD through Bitstream over HDMI for the AVR to decode? Thus, making the TrueHD, DTS-HD lights to come on.(lights are not the important part here, just asking).

You must be one of the "lucky" ones.

http://reviews.pricegrabber.com/onsalecom/r/2270/

http://www0.shopping.com/xMR-onsale~MRD-310764~S-1

No doubt those numbers mean something but since people are much more likely to report negative findings, I'd say they are much more likely to produce a satisfactory result that indicated on any review site. I for one have never posted positive toward OnSale and I've had at least two very satisfactory transactions with them. But hey, whatever....I could care less where anyone orders from. Just trying to help.

I agree that people are usually more inclined to post negative reviews than positive ones, but it still doesn't change the fact that the place has A LOT of negative reviews. You don't ever find that with reputable operations like Amazon, Crutchfield or any of the well-established forum sponsors. I'm just trying to help as well so people on here don't have a negative buying experience. :)

ONE CALL is excellent online dealer in Spokane, Washington. They have both the 2400 and 5000 up for pre-order. They told me yesterday that they were expecting the 2400 in late September but the delay posts here in this thread may be newer info?

I agree about ONE CALL. They are a good company. Not always the lowest price but competitive. I bought my first widescreen HDTV years ago from them and got a 5 year IN-home warranty for $300. When I didn't need to use the warranty for any repairs after the 5 years they gave me $150 credit back so I bought a DVD player with it. Very nice to deal with.:)

pcmall.com has it listed for $841.99.

http://www.pcmall.com/pcmall/shop/detail~price~158~Redir~1~dpno~7295840.asp

I've had good luck with PCMall in the past; but for smaller purchases. I believe Macmall, PCMall, and ECost are all affiliated. Anyone know if they are an authorized Samsung dealer?

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Hardware/Dual-Format_Players/Samsung/Samsung_Lowers_Price_on_Upcoming_Dual-Format_HD_DVD,_Blu-ray_Player/945

Only $50 bucks price reduction but hey, at lest is something.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Hardware/Dual-Format_Players/Samsung/Samsung_Lowers_Price_on_Upcoming_Dual-Format_HD_DVD,_Blu-ray_Player/945

Only $50 bucks price reduction but hey, at lest is something.

What good is a price drop if you can't actually buy the darn thing in the first place. Why can't they commit to a date? It looks like we (HDM consumers) are in for some serious price cuts come November. Don't know if I can hold out until then. I am guessing the entry level HD DVD player to be $199 and the entry level blu-ray player to be $349 .... this will put pressure on LG/Samsung to offer up a $649 street price.

What good is a price drop if you can't actually buy the darn thing in the first place. Why can't they commit to a date? It looks like we (HDM consumers) are in for some serious price cuts come November. Don't know if I can hold out until then. I am guessing the entry level HD DVD player to be $199 and the entry level blu-ray player to be $349 .... this will put pressure on LG/Samsung to offer up a $649 street price.

If you pre-order one - it will be in your hands
November 1st. If that is too long to wait - then
you have to do something else.

Is that November 1st release date an absolute certainty? If so, I can certainly hold out for another month and a half.

If you pre-order one - it will be in your hands
November 1st. If that is too long to wait - then
you have to do something else.

Unfortunately I have big plans mid-Oct. that requires a player. I might as well get a standalone.

k

Samsung has lowered the MSRP by $50 (http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Hardware/Dual-Format_Players/Samsung/Samsung_Lowers_Price_on_Upcoming_Dual-Format_HD_DVD,_Blu-ray_Player/945) (lol) to $999

It's a price drop! Hopefully LG undercuts Samsung by $50.... then Samsung responds again :D

Is that November 1st release date an absolute certainty? If so, I can certainly hold out for another month and a half.

Since the player is only Blu-ray 1.0 compatible.
No Player maker can ship any Blu-Ray version
1.0 AFTER OCTOBER 31. Therefore Samsung
has to SHIP IT BEFORE October 31 to get it out
UNDER-THE-WIRE.

Therefore November 1 should be a SOLID date
and might be even sooner.

What good is a price drop if you can't actually buy the darn thing in the first place. Why can't they commit to a date? It looks like we (HDM consumers) are in for some serious price cuts come November. Don't know if I can hold out until then. I am guessing the entry level HD DVD player to be $199 and the entry level blu-ray player to be $349 .... this will put pressure on LG/Samsung to offer up a $649 street price.

The problem with that logic is this is not an "entry-level player". It has high end features like HQV, Lossless Audio decoding, 7.1 analog outputs, HDMI 1.3 and 1080p24 output.

Since the player is only Blu-ray 1.0 compatible.
No Player maker can ship any Blu-Ray version
1.0 AFTER OCTOBER 31. Therefore Samsung
has to SHIP IT BEFORE October 31 to get it out
UNDER-THE-WIRE.

Therefore November 1 should be a SOLID date
and might be even sooner.

Good to know. Thanks for the info. :cool:

The problem with that logic is this is not an "entry-level player". It has high end features like HQV, Lossless Audio decoding, 7.1 analog outputs, HDMI 1.3 and 1080p24 output.


I agree, apples and oranges. Although cheaper is always better, I think that it is a fair price for this player.

Justin

The problem with that logic is this is not an "entry-level player". It has high end features like HQV, Lossless Audio decoding, 7.1 analog outputs, HDMI 1.3 and 1080p24 output.

Am I the only one that cares this is a dual player with HQV? I really could care less about the other novelties.

Am I the only one that cares this is a dual player with HQV? I really could care less about the other novelties.I care...quite a bit! :D

The problem with that logic is this is not an "entry-level player". It has high end features like HQV, Lossless Audio decoding, 7.1 analog outputs, HDMI 1.3 and 1080p24 output.

It is afterall a Samsung. That alone in my book means it is not a premium product. Maybe they should call it Samsung Elite or start another "high end" brand name to support higher pricing.

The sum of all equal products by Toshiba and Sony should be more (not less) than The BD-UP5000 pricing. An XA2 is $449, an S300 is $474 .... Samsung has to beat these by at least $100 to be a decent value.

We shall see. I predict street pricingto be <$750 after Thanksgivnig for the BD-UP5000.

Since the player is only Blu-ray 1.0 compatible.
No Player maker can ship any Blu-Ray version
1.0 AFTER OCTOBER 31. Therefore Samsung
has to SHIP IT BEFORE October 31 to get it out
UNDER-THE-WIRE.

Therefore November 1 should be a SOLID date
and might be even sooner.

However, there could be a loop hole because its an HD DVD player aswell

It is afterall a Samsung. That alone in my book means it is not a premium product. Maybe they should call it Samsung Elite or start another "high end" brand name to support higher pricing.

The sum of all equal products by Toshiba and Sony should be more (not less) than The BD-UP5000 pricing. An XA2 is $449, an S300 is $474 .... Samsung has to beat these by at least $100 to be a decent value.

We shall see. I predict street pricingto be <$750 after Thanksgivnig for the BD-UP5000.

I see this said quite a bit, but I have to disagree. I think Samsung (recently) has been stepping it up as far as quality goes. They may not be "true" "high end" , but as a consumer product I think they are pushing their way up.

The total for the 2 you listed is $923 (even though I cant find the Xa2 for the 449) which is still not that far off from the MSRP of 999. I think we will see this street at around 800-900 and possibly cheaper during the holiday season. I for one am looking forward to picking one of these up as for right now I cant see comparable players on both sides (same feature set) that will cost me less and come from a reputable source.

However, there could be a loop hole because its an HD DVD player aswell

I am not sure that counts...I mean look what happened to the 1st gen LG player when they tried to sneak by without full HD DVD compatibility. This player (from what I have read at least) has BD 1.1 compatibility, but might be missing the software for it. While it may ship 1.0 it could be upgraded to 1.1 in the future. I am not sure if anyone ever confirmed this or not, but thats what was being said earlier.

It is afterall a Samsung. That alone in my book means it is not a premium product. Maybe they should call it Samsung Elite or start another "high end" brand name to support higher pricing.

The sum of all equal products by Toshiba and Sony should be more (not less) than The BD-UP5000 pricing. An XA2 is $449, an S300 is $474 .... Samsung has to beat these by at least $100 to be a decent value.

We shall see. I predict street pricingto be <$750 after Thanksgivnig for the BD-UP5000.
Can you direct me to multiple locations that sell the XA2 for $449 ?
I would be interested in this price.

Can somebody point me in the right direction of an authorized dealer that is taking preorders for this combo player? I already have a Blu-ray and HD DVD for myself, but my mom just got an HDTV and this player will suit her needs. She'll just borrow my HD movies just as she has done for my years with my DVDs. She has been kind of disappointed lately with the fact that she can't play the movies that I buy now. I'm thinking this might be a popular seller considering what has been going on with the format war and Paramount lately. So I would like to find her one before the holiday rush. I've done searches and came up with nothing but press releases and things of that nature. Any help would be appreciated.

Can somebody point me in the right direction of an authorized dealer that is taking preorders for this combo player? I already have a Blu-ray and HD DVD for myself, but my mom just got an HDTV and this player will suit her needs. She'll just borrow my HD movies just as she has done for my years with my DVDs. She has been kind of disappointed lately with the fact that she can't play the movies that I buy now. I'm thinking this might be a popular seller considering what has been going on with the format war and Paramount lately. So I would like to find her one before the holiday rush. I've done searches and came up with nothing but press releases and things of that nature. Any help would be appreciated.

You might want to wait and maybe be put on the email list for amazon.
When they are available you will get notified then check your local dealers.
If you pre order one, you might be locked in to buy it/credit card hold fee and they can't guarantee a delivery date at this time.

I see this said quite a bit, but I have to disagree. I think Samsung (recently) has been stepping it up as far as quality goes. They may not be "true" "high end" , but as a consumer product I think they are pushing their way up.

The total for the 2 you listed is $923 (even though I cant find the Xa2 for the 449) which is still not that far off from the MSRP of 999. I think we will see this street at around 800-900 and possibly cheaper during the holiday season. I for one am looking forward to picking one of these up as for right now I cant see comparable players on both sides (same feature set) that will cost me less and come from a reputable source.

I agree with you 100%.

Since the player is only Blu-ray 1.0 compatible.
No Player maker can ship any Blu-Ray version
1.0 AFTER OCTOBER 31. Therefore Samsung
has to SHIP IT BEFORE October 31 to get it out
UNDER-THE-WIRE.

Therefore November 1 should be a SOLID date
and might be even sooner.

IMHO this will probably prove to be true, but I believe this statement deserves some "ifs".

Broadcom has announced in a press release (http://www.broadcom.com/press/release.php?id=1047516) that the BD-UP5000 is using their BCM7440 (http://www.broadcom.com/products/Consumer-Electronics/Blu-ray-and-HD-DVD-System-Solutions/BCM7440) system-on-a chip (SoC) which supports both Profiles "1.1" and "2.0" for the Blu-ray side. I don't see where Samsung has mentioned how much persistent memory the BD-UP5000 will have, but if they do include enough memory I don't see why the player couldn't support Profiles 1.1 or 2.0, at least from a hardware standpoint.

Samsung's press release for the player (http://www.samsung.com/us/aboutsamsung/news/newsRead.do?newstype=productnews&newsctgry=consumerproduct&news_seq=3591) back in April seemed to imply that they initially expected the BD-UP5000 to "fully support" both Blu-ray's and HD DVD's "interactive technologies" suggesting a Profile 1.1 (or even 2.0) player for the Blu-ray side, but they seem to have since backed off on that claim suggesting that they plan to release the BD-UP5000 as a Profile 1.0 player.

So while I believe that drhankz statement will likely prove to be true, it might be more accurate to say that IF Samsung decides to release the BD-UP5000 as a Profile 1.0 player they will need to release it for sale before 11/1 IF they want to comply with Blu-ray standards. IMHO it is conceivable that they could decide to work out the software bugs and release the player at a later date as a Profile 1.1 or 2.0 player (esp. since they now seem to have competition from LG's upcoming Profile 2.0? dual format player), or even (less likely- IMHO) decide to release it at a later date as a non-compliant Profile 1.0 player. Even less likely (again IMHO) the Grace Period deadline could be delayed again.

Just my 2¢

However, there could be a loop hole because its an HD DVD player aswell

NO LOOP HOLE.

So while I believe that drhankz statement will likely prove to be true, it might be more accurate to say that IF Samsung decides to release the BD-UP5000 as a Profile 1.0 player they will need to release it for sale before 11/1 IF they want to comply with Blu-ray standards. IMHO it is conceivable that they could decide to work out the software bugs and release the player at a later date as a Profile 1.1 or 2.0 player (esp. since they now seem to have competition from LG's upcoming Profile 2.0? dual format player), or even (less likely- IMHO) decide to release it at a later date as a non-compliant Profile 1.0 player. Even less likely (again IMHO) the Grace Period deadline could be delayed again.

Just my 2¢

Absolutely correct - they cold hold it back and deliver it
as a 1.1 player. The other BIG IF is - I have heard rumors
that they will release it as a 1.0 player and provide the
FW upgrade to 1.1 and maybe even 2.0 ---- IF the hardware
needed to allow the FW upgrade is properly installed and
designed right.

I agree there are certainly a LOT of IFs :D

Can you direct me to multiple locations that sell the XA2 for $449 ?
I would be interested in this price.

You only need 1 source. I'll list 3 as of last week's holiday sales.

BestBuy with customer coupon.
Then you can go to Circuit City for a 10% of difference price match....
or you could go to Ultimate Electronics stores in the Minn.St Paul area. They had a flyer with HD DVD sale prices (over the holiday however ... ended now) for $449.

http://www.ultimateelectronics.com/shopping/browse/atomzdirectorymain.jsp?atomzURL=http%3A%2F%2Fultimate.commer ce.atomz.com%2F%3Fi%3D1%26u1%3Dx5%26u2%3Dx28%26x28%3DHigh%2B Definition%2BPlayers%26x5%3DDVD%2BPlayers%2B%2526%2BVideo%2B Recorders

3 places last week. Don't know if they are still on. I sold my A1 but didn't have confirmation of the sale until it was too late.

The thing with me is once I see a sale price, I refuse to buy for above that price.

The thing with me is once I see a sale price, I refuse to buy for above that price.

I agree, but to be fair the 5000 isn't even out yet, let alone being out on the market long enough to go on sale.
When the A2 first came out, you could not get it anywhere for what it goes for now.
So to be really fair about this player's value, we must compare list to list and retail to retail.
We know now what list is, ($999) and so far the lowest retail seen is ($798).

So an A2 for $449 plus a pany for $500 would about equal this player both in features and in price. (in some cases it beats them)
It's not fair to compare this player to the cheapest Toshiba ($230) and the cheapest Sony ($449) because this player does more than both of these together.

Another factor to consider:
If you don't have a new receiver with the latest codecs, does your current setup have dual 7.1 analog inputs?
99.9% of them don't.

Samsung Austria -> MSRP 799 Euro (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.samsung.com%2Fat%2Fpresscenter% 2Fifa07%2Fifa07_3.asp&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools). If that's true, we can except great street prices in Europe. :)

Another factor to consider:
If you don't have a new receiver with the latest codecs, does your current setup have dual 7.1 analog inputs?
99.9% of them don't.

Denon 3803 with 7.1 analog inputs, not dual so yes an upgrade to an HDMI receiver or a single player is necessary.

I checked at Ultimate Electronics and Circuit City today and last weeks 2 day sale is over. The XA2 is back to $649 and the A2 at $269. They would not give me last weeks sale price. No matter. I think I will hang around to see how the A30/A35 players operate. Most likely get one of those and pass on the UP5000 (and blu ...)

Samsung Austria -> MSRP 799 Euro (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.samsung.com%2Fat%2Fpresscenter% 2Fifa07%2Fifa07_3.asp&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools). If that's true, we can except great street prices in Europe. :)

These are great news Flausch!!. :) Where did you see that price??

Am I the only one that cares this is a dual player with HQV?

No . . . Why would you even think that?

These are great news Flausch!!. :) Where did you see that price??
Just check the link to the Samsungsite! It's right above the technical data.

There are even some dealers already listing that price:http://geizhals.at/a276828.html

Okay, well if BD-Java does in fact mean Profile 2.0, many press releases state this player supports BD-Java including the Broadcom chip press release.

Okay, well if BD-Java does in fact mean Profile 2.0, many press releases state this player supports BD-Java including the Broadcom chip press release.

bd-java has no relation to 2.0; in fact the press release expressly states 1.0

Okay, well if BD-Java does in fact mean Profile 2.0, many press releases state this player supports BD-Java including the Broadcom chip press release.

BD-Live means Profile 2. Even a Profile 1.0 player will have BD-Java.

Can I get an update here? With all this news/posts, I am affraid I have lost track.

Is the below official by Samsung:

With an HDMI 1.3 AVR, will this player pass DTS-HD/MA and Dolby TrueHD through Bitstream over HDMI for the AVR to decode? Thus, making the TrueHD, DTS-HD lights to come on.(lights are not the important part here, just asking).


Anybody got a word on this?

Anybody got a word on this?

I would like to keep my system 5.1 instead of 7.1 are these two new formats 5.1 compatible?

I would like to keep my system 5.1 instead of 7.1 are these two new formats 5.1 compatible?
I believe so.

BD-Live means Profile 2. Even a Profile 1.0 player will have BD-Java.

From what I've seen, this is 1.0 out of the box but may be firmware upgradeable. The LG is said to support BD-PiP - does this fact indicate that the LG will be 2.0 compatible by comparision?

From what I've seen, this is 1.0 out of the box but may be firmware upgradeable.

A Samsung press release (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.samsung.com%2Fat%2Fpresscenter% 2Fifa07%2Fifa07_3.asp&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools) from last week's IFA seems to agree that the player will be released as a Profile 1.0 player.

The LG is said to support BD-PiP - does this fact indicate that the LG will be 2.0 compatible by comparision?

Sorta, but it's more like the other way around. LG's press release for the BH200 (http://us.lge.com/aboutus/pressdetail/detail/press_TV%7CAudio%7CVideo_337_1.jhtml) says that their player supports BD-Live = Profile 2. Since it is a Profile 2 player it must also support Profile 1.1's picture-in-picture and other requirements. A Profile 1.1 player with picture-in-picture would not have to support Profile 2's network connectivity, however.

This is an exerpt form blu-ray.com

IFA 2007: Samsung Blu-ray Players and Home Cinema
Posted September 10, 2007 by Iceman

"Despite the market for dual-format high-definition disc players only representing 2-3% of the overall HD player market Samsung felt compelled to introduce a dual-format player, perhaps as a response to South Korean arch-rival LG's introduction of the BH100 earlier this year. The BD-UP5000 Duo HD player, which supports both Blu-ray and HD-DVD, is basically a BD-P2400 with HD-DVD support added to it. We spent some time talking to a Samsung representative and were able to confirm that the BD-UP5000 will support Profile 1.1 (picture-in-picture functionality), but unfortunately we weren't able to get a definitive answer about the other players. The BD-UP5000 Duo HD Player will be released in Q4 2007 and will retail for $999."

Well, if it ships as profile 1.1 then profile 2 should be a simple firmware upgrade cause the player already has an ethernet port.

I guess there is the 1GB storage requirement too, but really, even if it has less than 1GB it doesn't really matter. Profile 2 is all about interactivity through the internet. It doesn't matter that I won't have the EXACT REQUIRED STORAGE SPACE mandated by Sony. It's just less room for bookmarks, preferences, and movie title updates. All that can't be that much storage anyway.

Honestly, why can't we just get a committed release date from Samsung on this damn thing?

Honestly, why can't we just get a committed release date from Samsung on this damn thing?
Just think about the features that missed in the first announcement in July, which have been confirmed (24p for HD-DVD, DTS-MA) or rumoured (BD-Profile 1.1/2.0) since then.
I think Samsung knows how important this player is and they are still working to get as much as possible out of the hardware. The BD-P2400 which is technically quite identical, has been delayed too, so it is very likely that they are still working on the firmwares for these players. I think it's better to have a later but stable release, instead of rushing these to the market with a lot of bugs.

Just think about the features that missed in the first announcement in July, which have been confirmed (24p for HD-DVD, DTS-MA) or rumoured (BD-Profile 1.1/2.0) since then.
I think Samsung knows how important this player is and they are still working to get as much as possible out of the hardware.Yeah, if this player ends up being 1.1 then I definitely think it will be worth the wait. It will be interesting to see what the final feature set is.

so, any updates if the player will decode (REALLY DECODE, NOT BITSTREAM PASSING ONLY!!!) all the new audio codecs including DTS-MA?

I agree, but to be fair the 5000 isn't
Another factor to consider:
If you don't have a new receiver with the latest codecs, does your current setup have dual 7.1 analog inputs?
99.9% of them don't.

sorry im still a bit new to all of this, I was just wondering why you would need dual 7.1 analogue inputs rather than single?
thanks

osmosis2k,

If you don't have a audio processor in your receiver/preamp, you can still get it through an analog input. Problem comes up if you have seperate Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players as you would need two sets of analog input. However, a workaround is to buy a switcher.
So you could have 3 devices, (2 players and a switcher) or just one device(a dual player).

osmosis2k,

If you don't have a audio processor in your receiver/preamp, you can still get it through an analog input. Problem comes up if you have seperate Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players as you would need two sets of analog input. However, a workaround is to buy a switcher.
So you could have 3 devices, (2 players and a switcher) or just one device(a dual player).

Ok thanks, that makes sense.
Just one more question, does anyone know if this player has multichannel analog outputs or the ability to output multichannel audio via HDMI.
And if the player can decode internally DTHD?
thanks

Well, if it ships as profile 1.1 then profile 2 should be a simple firmware upgrade cause the player already has an ethernet port.


Profile 2 also requires 1GB of persistent storage. Though it could probably "unofficially" support BD-Live titles since I don't imagine any of them actually needing to store 1GB of data.

Profile 2 also requires 1GB of persistent storage. Though it could probably "unofficially" support BD-Live titles since I don't imagine any of them actually needing to store 1GB of data.
Are you seriously that dense? Read my entire post

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11581815#post11581815

Update. Just ordered an HD-A35. Looks like the BD-UP5000 is no longer part of my plans.

Too many if's and but's with the Samsung ....

Profile 2 also requires 1GB of persistent storage.Profile 2 requires the capability to support 1GB of persistent storage. If it has USB ports which support memory sticks or hard drives it can meet the persistent storage requirements.

Okay, well if BD-Java does in fact mean Profile 2.0, many press releases state this player supports BD-Java including the Broadcom chip press release.BD-J is present in every BD player. Profile 2 relates to hardware capability (i.e. network support).

Guys, as long as the player can use the internet when playing a bluray disc it's profile 2 for all you care.

The storage requirement is a mandate, not something that will prevent you from using advanced features of bluray. If there is only 512 MB in this player it doesn't matter! Bluray will still use that storage space all the same if it were 1GB, you just have less.

As far as I'm concerned this player will be bluray profile 2. Quote me on it!

Too many if's and but's with the Samsung ....


What are the big if's and but's? It has dual format capability, HQV processing, 7.1 analog connections and pretty much everything else you could ask for in a player. Aside from all this 1.0, 1.1 or 2.0 crap that most people won't even use I think this player delivers in every way possible.

No answers on DTS-HD / DTS-MA Decoders on-board.

No Answers on TrueHD decoding for more then 2 channels

No Answers on FULL HDMI 1.3A support.

if no to 1 & 2 this player is pointless to me!

Also does it pass BTB/WTW?

What are the big if's and but's? It has dual format capability, HQV processing, 7.1 analog connections and pretty much everything else you could ask for in a player. Aside from all this 1.0, 1.1 or 2.0 crap that most people won't even use I think this player delivers in every way possible.

You've nailed it!;)

Aside from all this 1.0, 1.1 or 2.0 crap that most people won't even use I think this player delivers in every way possible.

Sorry, this is just the question I needed answered. Not going to buy a player that can't play the features all these studios are holding back releases for in the first place. If it is good for the studio to have these 2.0 profile then I want it too.

My only hangup at this point (aside from the onboard decoding stuff), is that its a Samsung (I know, I know...). I have been doing some reading on prior Sammy units (1000,1200 and a little on the current 1400), and some of the reviewers claim lock-ups, freezing, skipping, flimsy construction, poor bass management over analog (something I am trying to get away from as my A1 has BM issues), etc. I really like the look of this thing, and am hoping that once someone gets a hold of one, they can lay my concerns to rest. I am also hoping that someone will crack the unit open, and confirm component quality. As stated above, hopefully Sammy realizes the importance of this player, and is shooting for a more high-end feel...

How has Samsung been with firmware updates to their other players? I'm sure they're going to push a FW update to add all BD-Live jazz you guys are jazzed about.

;11593618']How has Samsung been with firmware updates to their other players? I'm sure they're going to push a FW update to add all BD-Live jazz you guys are jazzed about.

I think they have just the one FW update for the 1000; I'm not sure about the 1200...

Actually, I believe we are on our third Samsung firmware BD-P1000 update. It is at v1.2 right now. If I remember right, the first update was labelled as v1.0. It seems that Toshiba HD-DVD updates occur more often, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

I have a BD-P1000 player now and have had other Samsung components in the past. They seem fine to me.

ptrubey,

How is the stability of the player?

Well, I haven't had any issues with basic playability, but I'm not a power user either. There are issues at the margin, like 1080p output (works for some projectors, not others - has to do with issues with EDID standards or lack thereof).

Note that all Blu-ray and HD-DVD players take a lot longer than a quality DVD player to initially read the disk. We're all hoping that as faster chip sets come out, this will improve.

No answers on DTS-HD / DTS-MA Decoders on-board.

No Answers on TrueHD decoding for more then 2 channels

No Answers on FULL HDMI 1.3A support.


these are MUST haves on a player before I will actually buy one.

BD-Live means Profile 2. Even a Profile 1.0 player will have BD-Java.

Haha my apologies, I meant to say "Live" instead of Java, I just was not thinking right when I wrote that.

This new player sounds pretty sweet, can't wait for it to be released! Why is it so difficult to ask Samsung if this player has support to pass high def audio formats as bitstream?

This new player sounds pretty sweet, can't wait for it to be released! Why is it so difficult to ask Samsung if this player has support to pass high def audio formats as bitstream?

Because they haven't got full control over it. It depends also on how the disc is configured.

Furthermore, it seems that with profile 1.1 and related PiP, it's impossible to pass through all sound as bit stream, because you have different sound tracks that have to be mixed. This can only be done by the player when the stuff is decoded.

I'll be happy as long as it does 1080p for both blu-ray and hd dvd. And also if it makes my pretty lights come on in my Onkyo 805 that say "Dolby True HD and DTS-HD".

I'll be happy as long as it does 1080p for both blu-ray and hd dvd. And also if it makes my pretty lights come on in my Onkyo 805 that say "Dolby True HD and DTS-HD".Well, it's already been announced to to 1080p/24 for both formats. I was thinking there was an annoucement or story somewhere that said it would support off-base decoding (sending out bitstream) for TrueHD & DTS-HD MA; but I haven't found it in recent searches, so I'm not sure now.

Well, it's already been announced to to 1080p/24 for both formats. I was thinking there was an annoucement or story somewhere that said it would support off-base decoding (sending out bitstream) for TrueHD & DTS-HD MA; but I haven't found it in recent searches, so I'm not sure now.

Is that Jerry Springer in you avatar? :eek:

First time poster, long time reader.

The information below is from the DTS site: http://www.dts.com/support/brandguide/licensees/hardware/pass_through.php

DTS-HD Advanced Digital Out™
DTS-HD Advanced Digital Out denotes the ability to output DTS-HD Master Audio streams to an external decoder such as an A/V receiver or pre-amp/processor. Use the logo shown at right.

Based on the attached picture from CEDIA 2007 and the matching DTS-HD Advanced Digital Out™ logo, this should confirm that DTS-MA will be able to be passed as bitstream to a receiver based on the logo used. I'm sure it will pass the other codecs as well, but this is the only picture/logo I could find confirm bitstream output.

Is that Jerry Springer in you avatar? :eek:Ha Ha. That's me in my avatar! :rolleyes:

First time poster, long time reader.

The information below is from the DTS site: http://www.dts.com/support/brandguide/licensees/hardware/pass_through.php

DTS-HD Advanced Digital Out™
DTS-HD Advanced Digital Out denotes the ability to output DTS-HD Master Audio streams to an external decoder such as an A/V receiver or pre-amp/processor. Use the logo shown at right.

Based on the attached picture from CEDIA 2007 and the matching DTS-HD Advanced Digital Out™ logo, this should confirm that DTS-MA will be able to be passed as bitstream to a receiver based on the logo used. I'm sure it will pass the other codecs as well, but this is the only picture/logo I could find confirm bitstream output.That's an excellent find. It does indeed look like the DTS-HD MA is passed via bitstream. Thanks! :)

No answers on DTS-HD / DTS-MA Decoders on-board.

No Answers on FULL HDMI 1.3A support.

If they have dts-hd/ma listed then it would have to be decoded in the player or be able to via hdmi 1.3 to pass the bitstream to be decoded in a receiver, unless 'FULL' support includes something else.
It would seem unrealistic though that the players would not have on board decoders for all formats because at this early stage how many recievers/pre-pros have on board decoders compared to not and how people own them!


No Answers on TrueHD decoding for more then 2 channels

That seems primitive, haven't they heard most home theater have 5.1-7.1 speakers that we like to use! What's the point in 2?
joe

I cant remember if someone posted this here before bit Blu-ray.com is reporting that this player is 1.1 . It has an ethernet jack so all it would need is the memory (which it could also use a USB as memory to be "compatible". I appologize if this has been posted:
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=491
Samsung, which featured Blu-ray products throughout most of their displays, also had one of the most diverse line-ups of Blu-ray products at the show, including multiple Blu-ray players, a Blu-ray home theater system as well as a dual-format player.

Samsung's BD-P1400 Blu-ray player, which is their new entry-level player, features 1080p/24, HDMI 1.3, HDMI-CEC, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital+, DTS-HD, BD/DVD/CD playback, 5.1-channel surround sound, as well as an Ethernet port for firmware upgrades. The BD-P2400 model comes with all the same features as the BD-P1400, but in addition offers 7.1-channel surround sound and a HQV video processor to enhance the upscaling capability of the player. The BD-P1400 and BD-P2400 will be released in the US in October for $549 and $649 respectively. As for Europe, the two players will be introduced later this year for €599 and €699 respectively.

Despite the market for dual-format high-definition disc players only representing 2-3% of the overall HD player market Samsung felt compelled to introduce a dual-format player, perhaps as a response to South Korean arch-rival LG's introduction of the BH100 earlier this year. The BD-UP5000 Duo HD player, which supports both Blu-ray and HD-DVD, is basically a BD-P2400 with HD-DVD support added to it. We spent some time talking to a Samsung representative and were able to confirm that the BD-UP5000 will support Profile 1.1 (picture-in-picture functionality), but unfortunately we weren't able to get a definitive answer about the other players. The BD-UP5000 Duo HD Player will be released in Q4 2007 and will retail for $999.


This player is looking better and better the closer we get to release date. The reality is though until we get some "real" hands on (thorough tests) I dont think well know the real deal. We still have more than a month for info to come out, but all signs point to this being the "it" player for people who want both formats in 1 player.

This new player sounds pretty sweet, can't wait for it to be released! Why is it so difficult to ask Samsung if this player has support to pass high def audio formats as bitstream?


can t use this. Has to be able to really DECODE all the advanced audio formats.

I doubt it will decode unless it happens later via firmware upgrade (I have no idea if that's possible from the hardware). For whatver reason over this summer HDMI receivers with DTS-HD MA decoding have become relatively common (Onkyo, Denon, Pio, Yammy; with more to come); while I don't know if even the first player has shipped with onboard MA decode, including BD and HD DVD players. Anyone seen an announcement?

First time poster, long time reader.

The information below is from the DTS site: http://www.dts.com/support/brandguide/licensees/hardware/pass_through.php

DTS-HD Advanced Digital Out™
DTS-HD Advanced Digital Out denotes the ability to output DTS-HD Master Audio streams to an external decoder such as an A/V receiver or pre-amp/processor. Use the logo shown at right.

Based on the attached picture from CEDIA 2007 and the matching DTS-HD Advanced Digital Out™ logo, this should confirm that DTS-MA will be able to be passed as bitstream to a receiver based on the logo used. I'm sure it will pass the other codecs as well, but this is the only picture/logo I could find confirm bitstream output.

So, to decode it internaly you need to have a "DTS-HD 2.0 + Advanced Digital Out™" Logo?

so are there any rumours IF there will ever be a player with internal DTS-MA decoding?

First time poster, long time reader.

The information below is from the DTS site: http://www.dts.com/support/brandguide/licensees/hardware/pass_through.php

DTS-HD Advanced Digital Out™
DTS-HD Advanced Digital Out denotes the ability to output DTS-HD Master Audio streams to an external decoder such as an A/V receiver or pre-amp/processor. Use the logo shown at right.

Based on the attached picture from CEDIA 2007 and the matching DTS-HD Advanced Digital Out™ logo, this should confirm that DTS-MA will be able to be passed as bitstream to a receiver based on the logo used. I'm sure it will pass the other codecs as well, but this is the only picture/logo I could find confirm bitstream output.

As i said in a post a little bit higher. It's not because a player is technically capable of passing on bitstream that it will actually happen. There are settings in discs that can prevent sending bitstreams. there are "applications" (PiP, dubbing in other anguages, etc.) that require decoding in the player because signals have to be mixed, etc.

so are there any rumours IF there will ever be a player with internal DTS-MA decoding?

So far the Receiver will do the decoding

So, to decode it internaly you need to have a "DTS-HD 2.0 + Advanced Digital Out™" Logo?

I don't think so. It's not the logo that does the decoding. ;)

But it looks like the reverse is true. According to that DTS website link, in order for a player to qualify for the "DTS-HD 2.0 + Advanced Digital Out™" logo it would have to both decode DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 internally (and be able to pass it through analog outputs) and be able to pass the DTS-HD MA via bitstream. I'd bet that a manufacturer could include the ability and decide not to use the logo, however.

Interesting that I didn't see anything about decoding DTS-HD-MA internally and then passing it as 5.1, 6.1, 7.1 on that page- just 2.0. Maybe I'm reading it wrong or missing something?

Is there hope that the player will at least decode the DTS core from the MA and pass it through the analogs?

Is there hope that the player will at least decode the DTS core from the MA and pass it through the analogs?

Yes CORE only.


DTS web site is very clear and simple to read

If we do not see:

DTS-HD 2.0 + Advanced Digital Out


Forget about DTS-MA.

Samsung will have to change the hardware again with in this month to allow DTS-MA over analog. (AKA, very unlikley)

There is always next year! :rolleyes:



But I'm just going to be buying the DENON UBER player when thats released anyhow.

So far the Receiver will do the decoding


That sucks. Why are the players dumping the decoding for that format alone on the recievers/pre-pros?
joe

How else are they going to sell their new receivers this year?

I wonder how many of us will upgrade to hdmi 1.3 recievers with decoders just for the dts-ma, considering that Fox seems to be the only major studio with that format. At least, not me. For that relatively small percentage of all movies I'll content myself the the core DTS, which appears to be pretty good anyways.
joe

I wonder how many of us will upgrade to hdmi 1.3 recievers with decoders just for the dts-ma, considering that Fox seems to be the only major studio with that format. At least, not me. For that relatively small percentage of all movies I'll content myself the the core DTS, which appears to be pretty good anyways.
joe

WELL SAID - I have enjoyed some of the DTS core
sound tracks better than some of the TrueHD or
Uncompressed PCM tracks.

I've got a Pioneer Elite VSX-49 THX Ultra2 receiver that I really don't want to get rid of right now. It's got the 7.1 analog inputs which means it would mate very well to the 7.1 analog outs on the BD-UP5000. My question is this: what audio formats will I be able to decode with this combination? Will I be able to get multi-channel TrueHD and DTS-HD or is it not really known yet whether this player will pass multi-channel through the analog connections? I know this has already been asked somewhere in the thread, but I'm too lazy to go back through 30+ pages to find the answer. ;)

I heard to-day from Samsung UK. that the dual player would not be available until 2008 but the blue ray player would be available mid October and that was from a senior manager

Well, they may have just made my decision for me. At this point, both Onkyo and Denon have pretty much confirmed that they each have hybrid players in the works, and I expect at least one to be announced in January at CES. While I don't have any first-hand experience with Samsung, I do with Denon (very positive - and I have yet to hear anything negative about Onkyo, either). If the 5000 is truly not due until 2008, unless it gets absolutely stellar reviews on every count (performance, build quality, stability, improved customer service), I may just live with my A1 until a Denon or Onkyo unit becomes available...:(

I heard to-day from Samsung UK. that the dual player would not be available until 2008 but the blue ray player would be available mid October and that was from a senior manager


This can be taken two ways.

First, the UK isn't going to get it until 2008. U.S. still get it when originally scheduled.

Secondly, Samsung isn't going to release it to anyone until 2008.

Anyone know how to find out?

First, the UK isn't going to get it until 2008. U.S. still get it when originally scheduled.


If I had to guess, I'd say that's what will happen. I don't think there's any way Samsung misses the chance to sell this thing during the holiday shopping season here in the states.

If I had to guess, I'd say that's what will happen. I don't think there's any way Samsung misses the chance to sell this thing during the holiday shopping season here in the states.

Boy...if those aren't words of wisdom!

Here's hoping Jim, Brent.....:)

I've got a Pioneer Elite VSX-49 THX Ultra2 receiver that I really don't want to get rid of right now. It's got the 7.1 analog inputs which means it would mate very well to the 7.1 analog outs on the BD-UP5000. My question is this: what audio formats will I be able to decode with this combination? Will I be able to get multi-channel TrueHD and DTS-HD or is it not really known yet whether this player will pass multi-channel through the analog connections? I know this has already been asked somewhere in the thread, but I'm too lazy to go back through 30+ pages to find the answer. ;)

I'm 99% that the 5000 will output TrueHD and DTS-HD over the analogs....99% that the 5000 will only output DTS-HD MA over HDMI.

I'm 99% that the 5000 will output TrueHD and DTS-HD over the analogs....99% that the 5000 will only output DTS-HD MA over HDMI.

Thanks for the clarification, rynberg. :cool:

No answers on DTS-HD / DTS-MA Decoders on-board.

No Answers on TrueHD decoding for more then 2 channels

No Answers on FULL HDMI 1.3A support.


Official Samsung spec PDF.

Official Samsung spec PDF.

That's looking pretty promising. :)

I wonder how many of us will upgrade to hdmi 1.3 recievers with decoders just for the dts-ma, considering that Fox seems to be the only major studio with that format. At least, not me. For that relatively small percentage of all movies I'll content myself the the core DTS, which appears to be pretty good anyways.
joe

It wouldn't bother me if no movie from here on out had DTS MA.

This can be taken two ways.

First, the UK isn't going to get it until 2008. U.S. still get it when originally scheduled.

Secondly, Samsung isn't going to release it to anyone until 2008.

Anyone know how to find out?
Considering the reason that it will not be available in the uk is for technical reasons only,then it should be the same in the us christmas or not.

I have read different sources all stating a later release in Europe than in the US and Japan. They heard this at the IFA from Mr. Kim of Samsung.

But I didn't read a reason for this decision.

I wonder how many of us will upgrade to hdmi 1.3 recievers with decoders just for the dts-ma, considering that Fox seems to be the only major studio with that format. At least, not me. For that relatively small percentage of all movies I'll content myself the the core DTS, which appears to be pretty good anyways.
joe


Joe,

Thanks for your post as it got me thinking about Fox having any movies that I would be interested in. As it turns out, they've got several that I would like to have.

Anyone else interested in what movies may or may not influence their decision, here's their URL http://www.foxmovies.com/

or http://www.foxbd.com/

Joe,

Thanks for your post as it got me thinking about Fox having any movies that I would be interested in. As it turns out, they've got several that I would like to have.

Anyone else interested in what movies may or may not influence their decision, here's their URL http://www.foxmovies.com/

I own some of the FOX Movies with DTS-HD.

The DTS core sound track sounds as good
as any TrueHD sound track.

So even if I my player can not decode DTS-HD
- I don't think I will be missing much.

I own some of the FOX Movies with DTS-HD.

The DTS core sound track sounds as good
as any TrueHD sound track.

So even if I my player can not decode DTS-HD
- I don't think I will be missing much.


I cannot sound as good. TrueHD is UNCOMPRESSED while DTS-HD-HR is a compressed signal.

Its not really the movies soundtracks I want DTS-MA for, but the concert videos that will hopefully be coming out down the road. For instance the BBC has done some beautiful high definition recordings from the London Proms concerts which have been shown on HDNET, which looked superb in 1080I and sounded pretty good in Dolby Digital. In DTS-MA they'd hopefully come close to DVD-A and SACD quality.
Whether one would hear any difference with pop concerts with their multi-miking and very narrow volume range is questionable but still possible.

I cannot sound as good. TrueHD is UNCOMPRESSED while DTS-HD-HR is a compressed signal.

Dolby TrueHD = Lossless compression
DTS-HD-MA = Lossless compression
DTS-HD-HR = Lossy compression
PCM = No compression

But since audible resolution is completely dependant on the listener's ears, it may sound just as good to him and not as good to you.

Considering the reason that it will not be available in the uk is for technical reasons only,then it should be the same in the us christmas or not.


Where has it been confirmed that there are "technical reasons" for a possible delay?

From the other thread.


will do it all...including DTS-HD Master Audio

http://crave.cnet.com/

From the other thread.


will do it all...including DTS-HD Master Audio

http://crave.cnet.com/

thats a good link. Seems like it has everything that is needed for me to purchase it. Now we just need to see how it acts passing Bitstream with the content flags...

From the other thread.


will do it all...including DTS-HD Master Audio

http://crave.cnet.com/
Wow, great news!

There you go people, you have your audio answers, this player does it ALL :D

Here's the permalink to the article, cause it will fall off the front page soon:

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9778543-1.html

Wow, great news!

There you go people, you have your audio answers, this player does it ALL :D

Here's the permalink to the article, cause it will fall off the front page soon:

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9778543-1.html

If all the information in that link is true, I'm the happiest camper in the campgrounds. Now just get this thing out already as I'm ready to buy it ASAP!!! :cool:

Thank God for that... I have been waiting for some sort of semi-official confirmation on the internal decoding of DTS MA. Like many here, I have an Integra 7.6 AVR (HDMI ) receiver, so my concern, in getting a combo like this Samsung, was if #1) it did true 1080P/24 for both Blu Ray & HD DVD & #2) internal decoding of all codecs but most importantly DTS MA . If this player does all it says it will, do... THERE IS NO NEED TO GO AND UPGRADE YOUR HDMI (1.1-1.2a) OR 7.1 ANALOGUE READY RECEIVERS, TO THE NEW RECEIVERS THAT DECODE THE DD THD & DST MA . IN FACT, IT IS TO OUR ADVANTAGE SINCE....., AND I QUOTE THE ARTICLE.....

" The BD-UP5000 will also be capable of sending these high-resolution soundtracks in bit-stream format to compatible AV receivers, although Advanced Content flags on certain discs could limit the usefulness of this feature. "

..... In other words the PIP and IME may be affected when the signal is sent bitstream to the receiver. Not so if the decoding is done in the player.

I think we are all good to go boys!! Can't wait for the release date.

Paul

Thank god. Finally something that will end the speculation.

If all the information in that link is true, I'm the happiest camper in the campgrounds. Now just get this thing out already as I'm ready to buy it ASAP!!! :cool:

Where do I sign up??:)

To current Sammy owners:

How is the bass management on Sammys?

ie. what are the settings options?

Good grief.... I'm getting dizzy... in a good way....:)

I'll wait to see it on Samsungs site first!

just a samsung representative... Yeah ok, I worked retail once, and knew a samsung representative that knew almost nothing about his own products

Thank god. Finally something that will end the speculation.

Awww...c'mon....speculation and anticipation are sometimes more fun that actually getting the product, with the bugs and glitches and uninterpretible manuals!
joe

To current Sammy owners:

How is the bass management on Sammys?

ie. what are the settings options?

As far as I know, the audio options are very very simple (just large/small settings for all speakers, nonvariable 100 Hz cut for LFE, no time correction etc.)
I really hope they will improve it on this player.

As far as I know, the audio options are very very simple (just large/small settings for all speakers, nonvariable 100 Hz cut for LFE, no time correction etc.)
I really hope they will improve it on this player.

Cool, at least large/small options on all speakers is better than some i have seen..........

Variable crossover would be nice.

So still no ballpark ETA on this huh?

The more and more I think about this player, the more and more I get scared though. I am not too familiar with Sammy's but.

1. Advanced audio decoding (all)
2. Advanced audio bitstream (all)
3. Potential 1.1 compatibility
4. Hd DVD AND BR playability
5. 7.1 outs
6. Upscaling for SD DVD

Seems like an AWFUL lot that could go wrong. Especially since it is claiming to not only be the first 1.1 player, the first to market to decode DTS HDMA, AND the first fully functioning DF player.

That is a TALL order. I just hope it isn't buggy as hell.

As far as I know, the audio options are very very simple (just large/small settings for all speakers, nonvariable 100 Hz cut for LFE, no time correction etc.)
I really hope they will improve it on this player.

If there are no speaker distance settings then there is no way I am buying it.

How has Samsung been with doing firmware updates for its players? I have a PS3 and HD-2 right now and Sony and Toshiba have been very good with this. I'm very seriously considering moving to this Samsung as I don't want to upgrade my (non-HDMI) receiver to get lossless audio and I want Reon for SD DVD. In addition, one player is better than two players to me.