According to the French magazine 'Les Annees Laser', Samsung will launch in July a dual format player, the BD-UP5000.

It will use HDMI 1.3 and support all the advanced audio codecs.

It will output 1080p/24, but with Blu-ray discs only.

HDi and BD-J will be fully supported. No specific indication about the BD-J profile though.

I could not find any link about this player.

Edit: many thanks to Grubert for posting the article translation:

Translation of the piece:

Blu-ray and HD DVD: Samsung too!

During an exclusive event Samsung invited us to late February, it unveiled the future hybrid Blu-ray/HD DVD player which will launch in July: the BD-UP5000.

Cosmetically it is very similar to the BD-P1200, the single-format Blu-ray player which will come out in April in the US.

This "Duo HD Player", as the CE maker calls it, will be 100 percent operational as regards interactivity, both on Blu-ray (BD-J) as on HD DVD (HDi).

It will have an HDMI 1.3 output and it will support all the new audio formats.

It will also be possible to setup the HDMI output at 1080/24p, but only for Blu-ray.

"It's because this option is not standardised on HD DVD yet", was the explanation.

For DVD upscaling (to 720p, 1080i or 1080p), Samsung has chosen DCDi processing (as opposed to HQV on the BD-P1200) for "cost reasons".

No final price has been disclosed, but Samsung is looking at a 10 percent price differential over the single-format Blu-ray players.

In other news, the European launch of the BD-P1200 has been delayed without a date.

[caption: Dr. Shin, the father of the BD-UP5000, holds the 3-laser-diode drive specially designed for this player.]

Good news. I was going to get the mid-year Sony, but I might hold off for further details on this Samsung.

I expected that Samsung would do this, but not this soon. The more uniplayers, the better I say.

What is a uniplayer? Is it both hd dvd and blu-ray

I smell an April Fool's Joke here.

I am not joking. What players support both hd dvd and blu ray

I am not joking. What players support both hd dvd and blu ray
LG makes one, and it has been rumored that Samsung would for a long time.

What is a uniplayer? Is it both hd dvd and blu-ray

I hope it goes a lot further than that.
Minimum:
SACD
DVD-A
CD
DVD
HDDVD
BD

Should I wait to but one of those players or should I just buy a blu ray

Should I wait to but one of those players or should I just buy a blu ray

I would wait for the Sony BDPSX, which will feature a DVR and Blu-Ray burner. It'll also cook your eggs in the morning and call your boss for you when you don't feel like going in.

Should I wait to but one of those players or should I just buy a blu ray


It's totally up to you. How much do you like / would you play HD DVD?

No one knows for sure how the format war will end. If you want to watch any HD discs from Universal or Weinstein, HD DVD is the only way to do it for the time being, and potentially, forever.

I smell an April Fool's Joke here.

Not from me...

Not from me...

Thanks for the report robena - definitely looking forward to seeing more announcements about this.

This seems like the most full-featured BD player we have seen yet (get that DTS-HD MA decoding at last).

If this is semi-affordable at least and works well for both formats, I think it could lead to basically a permanent format war hiatus or "cease-fire". Maybe then some of the bickering can end and lots of good movies can come.

...It will output 1080p/24, but with Blu-ray discs only...
In order to be a true universal player both BD and HD-DVD should be treated equally and use all features.

I hope it goes a lot further than that.
Minimum:
SACD
DVD-A
CD
DVD
HDDVD
BD

Don't get your hopes up on the SACD; BD-P1200 doesn't play them. Not sure about the BD-P1000, but I'm guessing not.

Don't these dual format players cost significantly more than single format players? If so, I wouldn't waste my money since HDDVD is probably going to be dead by the end of the year anyways.
What do you mean by dead? Do you mean dead by roadkill standards or DVD-A/SACD standards? Will HDDVD discs inexplicably stop playing at some point? Have you seent eh price of a really good DVD player? The Denon 3930 is $1500 well above the price of the LG BD/HDDVD player, and it doesn't play either of those.

Don't these dual format players cost significantly more than single format players? If so, I wouldn't waste my money since HDDVD is probably going to be dead by the end of the year anyways.

The "almost" universal LG BH 100 costs $1200 list. The BD-only Sony BDP-S1 is $1000 list, and the BD-only Pansonic DMP-BD10 is $1300 list.

My opinion is no - it likely won't cost all that much more provided they become popular. Initially, they will likely be somewhat more expensive.

It all depends on how much it costs to pay licensing royalties for both technolgies, and how feasible/easy it is to create components (e.g. blue laser diodes) that can be used for both.

How much does a DVD+R only drive cost? How much more does a DVD+/-R drive cost..? Almost nothing.

Personally I have serious doubts about HD DVD being dead "ever", much less by the end of the year.

LG BH100 Combo Player Quick Review (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9522683&&#post9522683)

Who cares how much it costs as long as it is a fully featured BR player!

If so, I wouldn't waste my money since HDDVD is probably going to be dead by the end of the year anyways.
i'm sure Samsung agrees

Did a Google search for this alleged future 'model" and not a single thing.

Buying a "Universal" player prolongs the format war...so DON'T!

It will output 1080p/24, but with Blu-ray discs only.

If they are going to release a player for both formats, why would they limit the 1080p/24 output to blu-ray only? Why not make all things equal. The first company that comes out with a fully functional combo player at a somewhat reasonable price is going to make a killing. Why put restrictions on output? Or anything for that matter.

If they are going to release a player for both formats, why would they limit the 1080p/24 output to blu-ray only? Why not make all things equal. The first company that comes out with a fully functional combo player at a somewhat reasonable price is going to make a killing. Why put restrictions on output? Or anything for that matter.

The BR players that output 1080p/24 do so by bypassing any processing, which is easy since movies are encoded at 1080p/24.

HD-DVD uses 1080i/60 flags, so it's less easy. There is no standardized way yet to output 1080p/24. Toshiba will probably go to the 1080p/24 -> 1080i/60 -> 1080p/24 route to do it.

Samsung, apparently, did not feel like adding a de-interlacer to their player.

If this player is for real and follows the positive trend the 1200 seems to be following it could be THE player to get. But only if it can be offered at a reasonable price.

The audio codecs are the biggie to me. We need to see an official, detailed announcement.

It could push the competition to to get it in gear too.

I was skeptical of the initial post, given the date, but the fact I just bought a PS3 means this will likely be the Holy Grail of HD players.:)

Google has everything, so if it doesn't pass the Google test, its very hard to believe.
Even with Google it can take a couple days for it to track down a new announcement. Time will tell.

Even with Google it can take a couple days for it to track down a new announcement. Time will tell.

So far as I can tell, this info is only in the print magazine.

I'll wait for a link.

According to their website, the lastest issue talks about the LG combo player.

What I saw was on page 24, April issue.

Here is the link:

http://www.annees-laser.com/index.htm

And the quote on that page:

Actualités matériel : Samsung : lecteur combo en vue...

Buying a "Universal" player prolongs the format war...so DON'T!

How?

I think it makes the war irrelevant.

How?

I think it makes the war irrelevant.
Not to detract from what could be a great player, but I have to agree with the earlier post.

It keeps the war going instead of allowing a natural winner to emerge. Instead of two options, consumers have 3, the combo option most likely being the most expensive, meaning more waiting for prices to fall and slower adoption of an HD optical format. And the less players that sell, the less the price can come down on them since production will be kept lower. So it's more wait, wait, wait for the do-everything player that's actually affordable. People will be torn between cheap players that can play only one of two formats and an expensive player that can play both.

Knowing one format will likely die anyway, they'll continue to sit it out so they can save money down the road. All this becomes too much to bother with for the average consumer to deal with, and they're more bound just to stick by their trusty DVDs until all the dust settles. Not everyone is as passionate about this stuff as we are, and that's what hurts the growh of HD. KISS. Keep it simple, stupid. :) Combo units make a complicated mess even more complicated. They are great for the avid videophile perhaps, but won't help mass market penetration.

Just my POV. If it's true that retailers hate a format war and start offering more Blu-ray and less HD-DVD, then the combo units will eventually prove unncecessary. I don't know how many J6Ps know that HD-DVD has less studio support, but retailers may start "telling" them by just pulling HD-DVD in favor of the ever-increasing Blu-ray sales.

Hmm... that is interesting, though I'm not so sure they aren't talking about a PC drive.

The written article speaks about a player, and shows a photo of it.

Not to detract from what could be a great player, but I have to agree with the earlier post.

It keeps the war going instead of allowing a natural winner to emerge. Instead of two options, consumers have 3, the combo option most likely being the most expensive, meaning more waiting for prices to fall and slower adoption of an HD optical format. And the less players that sell, the less the price can come down on them since production will be kept lower. So it's more wait, wait, wait for the do-everything player that's actually affordable. People will be torn between cheap players that can play only one of two formats and an expensive player that can play both.

Knowing one format will likely die anyway, they'll continue to sit it out so they can save money down the road. All this becomes too much to bother with for the average consumer to deal with, and they're more bound just to stick by their trusty DVDs until all the dust settles. Not everyone is as passionate about this stuff as we are, and that's what hurts the growh of HD. KISS. Keep it simple, stupid. :) Combo units make a complicated mess even more complicated. They are great for the avid videophile perhaps, but won't help mass market penetration.

Just my POV. If it's true that retailers hate a format war and start offering more Blu-ray and less HD-DVD, then the combo units will eventually prove unncecessary. I don't know how many J6Ps know that HD-DVD has less studio support, but retailers may start "telling" them by just pulling HD-DVD in favor of the ever-increasing Blu-ray sales.

Naaa... it only continues the war for those who are still playing. With a universal player, you're no longer playing.

Why would Samsung try to venture where LG has failed, and do so when it appears they are on the winning side.

LG, a 2nd-tier CE manufacturer, released a lackluster, not fully HD DVD compliant player for $1200 list. It sold about like might be expected, when one could just buy two better-brand units and be neutral for less. The people who would care most about the elegance of having one player aren't going to want LG.

Samsung, OTOH, got hung out to dry by the BDA last year and took a reputation beating as a result. Now, companies aren't known for emotional reactions, but it would be a fair hedge move on their part to see if they can clean up in the niche market and recoup some brand cachet by having something much better than the LG for say $800 list.

Plus they've been talking about doing this forever.

The written article speaks about a player, and shows a photo of it.

It would be awesome if you could scan (or take a snap of) that photo and post it. You can upload to the forum directly or host it and hotlink someplace like imageshack.

What do you say?

Well, then that is mass confusion all together. Why would Samsung try to venture where LG has failed, and do so when it appears they are on the winning side. Not to mention they are just releasing their second gen BD player. Sometimes it just so impossible to get into the head of an exec :p


I heard that the LG unit is selling like "hotcakes." Why do you say "failed?"

It would be awesome if you could scan (or take a snap of) that photo and post it. You can upload to the forum directly or host it and hotlink someplace like imageshack.

What do you say?

Here (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs414&d=07141&f=Samsung.gif) it is.

Here (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs414&d=07141&f=Samsung.gif) it is.
Unfortunately thats an image of the BD-P1200.

Yeah, but who knows how different it would look? Maybe they made a mistake or someone at Samsung told them it was going to be pretty much the same box, so they just used an old photo. The guy is apparently holding up the head of the combo player on the right. This doesn't smell like the usual hoax/vaporware thing to me.

robena: thanks for the scan! Very interesting. This summer will be crazy.

Naaa... it only continues the war for those who are still playing. With a universal player, you're no longer playing.


We're not playing in the format war to start with.

It's the studios that play in it. We're hapless victims of it. Now I know for the sorry lot that were drawn into the hype that the comeback kid by Toshiba was going to sieze the day and outdo the Champion out of the gate and win it that quick, so those people desperately want their investment into HD DVD, sizable for some (including me), to be worthwhile, I think you are not reading what was posted.

Universal players add a third option to a marketplace that already has too many options. General consumers don't go into a market that seems frought with uncertainty. Right now, they are holding back on BD and HD DVD to a large extent BECAUSE of that uncertainty. Throw in an expensive player that says it plays both, but not officially on one just confuses them. They say, "Why are there two standards? One of them is bound to go away."

They wait even longer.

One format wins though and the uncertainty vanishes. Universal could end this now and return certainty to the marketplace. Sure, the very small minority of consumers that have already invested in HD DVD would lose out on new discs, but they would go ahead and invest in BD now rather than wait, which would give Blu-ray that much needed push to finally come that much closer to mainstream.

As it is, consumers aren't jumping in because they're not sure what's going to play out. Dual format players don't fix this problem, they make it worse by throwing out lots of different options to confuse and delay.

Why do you think Samsung dropped the idea of a dual format player last year?

And do you really think the STUDIOS want to produce both formats? It costs them extra money to make discs on both formats because a small market is made smaller by being divided in half with different encodes (by the studios who care enough to do it), different cases, different SKU's.

Then the retailers care because they have to create shelving space for two different versions of the same movie in high definition because of dual format players extending the war.

So we aren't playing in it, but we are certainly going to be hurt by it in the longterm when high def disc prices don't drop below that 20 mark they're at now due to economies of scale not favoring a two format market.

And do consumers really want to pay more for a player that plays both? Or worse have to buy two players just to get all the movies they want?

I know I hated it and I hold Universal and Toshiba responsible for this problem. When two parties disagree, I'll hold the one with the easier solution to blame if that solution isn't done in the interests of the market. Universal and Toshiba could have ended this before it began, but were too self-interested to think of the market.

Meanwhile, the rest of the market was behind the other solution. U and T wanted to be difficult, so here we are. Sure they came out first, but only because they HAD to or they'd be dead already.

The war needs to end. Universal needs to end it now. Just like has been said, even if Universal went neutral, your discs you've already bought would not stop working.

Yep - always knew that the Samsung was coming. Nice to see it at last.

EDIT - a translation has clarified my concern, so I've updated the post.

Making 1080p only on BD would be a HUGE mistake and would anger many of those potential customers they are looking for. PARTICULARLY when one realizes that having TWO separate players could be a cheaper and better option, if this info is correct.

(It appears that the BD-UP5000 will do 1080p output for both HD DVD and Bluray. However, what is not know for sure is whether 1080p24 will be the same for both. This affects ardly anyone, tho, as most users will use 1080p60 output in their setups.

BTW - Are there any Broadcom-based dual format players in the pipeline??

I know I hated it and I hold Universal and Toshiba responsible for this problem. When two parties disagree, I'll hold the one with the easier solution to blame if that solution isn't done in the interests of the market. Universal and Toshiba could have ended this before it began, but were too self-interested to think of the market.

Meanwhile, the rest of the market was behind the other solution. U and T wanted to be difficult, so here we are. Sure they came out first, but only because they HAD to or they'd be dead already.


Hmmm, lets see, WHO broke away from the DVD forum on this issue? That's right Sony. They had yet another chance to create a new, proprietary format.

The BR players that output 1080p/24 do so by bypassing any processing, which is easy since movies are encoded at 1080p/24.

HD-DVD uses 1080i/60 flags, so it's less easy. There is no standardized way yet to output 1080p/24. Toshiba will probably go to the 1080p/24 -> 1080i/60 -> 1080p/24 route to do it.

Samsung, apparently, did not feel like adding a de-interlacer to their player.
You can bypass the processing for the HD DVD 1080p output as well. The presence of 60i flags in the 1080p stream does not make one require a deinterlacer. The Samsung dual format player should be able to support the same output for both formats - no excuse not to.

The failure of Samsung to deliver this feature on this player would likely be entirely the fault of the chipset provider being unable or unwilling to make it work for both.

Broadcom indicated a willingness and desire to make the most of both formats. The more dual format players the better, IMO.

If the Samsung TRULY does not output 1080p for HD DVD, then their player will be wiped out by the first competitior that comes to market with a player that DOES. It would be extremely foolish for them to launch like that, IMO.

If this is really true of the Samsung, and 1080p is crippled

LG, a 2nd-tier CE manufacturer, released a lackluster, not fully HD DVD compliant player for $1200 list. It sold about like might be expected, when one could just buy two better-brand units and be neutral for less. The people who would care most about the elegance of having one player aren't going to want LG.

Samsung, OTOH, got hung out to dry by the BDA last year and took a reputation beating as a result. Now, companies aren't known for emotional reactions, but it would be a fair hedge move on their part to see if they can clean up in the niche market and recoup some brand cachet by having something much better than the LG for say $800 list.

Plus they've been talking about doing this forever.
You don't really know much about LG, do you?

The failure of Samsung to deliver this feature on this player would likely be entirely the fault of the chipset provider being unable or unwilling to make it work for both.

Agreed. The Toshibas are already down into the low $300 range - CC has the A2 shown for $399 with a $50 rebate, and I've seen the A20 at just over $400. By the time this universal player will be released, you can bet the A2 will be gone and replaced by the A20 at the lower price point.

It's also pretty safe to say that there will be lower-priced players in both BD and HD DVD by the summer. I'd bet it will be easily possible to have two players with 1080p/24 capability for $800 or less before the Samsung would be released.

So.....why would it be a good deal without 1080p/24 for both formats?

Buying a "Universal" player prolongs the format war...so DON'T!
No it doesn't. It makes it irrelevant. Witness the the DVD+R/-R war.

EDIT:

Rutgar beat me to it.

You don't really know much about LG, do you?

Facts: 1. LG is second fiddle to Samsung, both in market share and quality. 2. It is possible to buy an HD DVD player and a BD player for less than the BH100.

Or was it something else I said? What do you disagree with? Enlighten me.

You may be right that LG is second to Samsung in market share but quality is a matter of opinion and is open to debate.

You may be right that LG is second to Samsung in market share but quality is a matter of opinion and is open to debate.

I agree. One of the best Hi-Def tuners I ever owned was an LG. I only got rid of it to get a HD DVR. And LG didn't make one of those.

1080/24p is not technically part of the HD DVD spec. Not having something not in the spec is hardly something to criticize.

If this player is real (I think it is), and does everything claimed by the OP, and does it for under a grand, that would be a big deal.

I guess I interpreted the info differently than some of you guys. I interpreted that 1080p will be supported on both formats. But 24fps only on BD. Based on the differences between the formats presented in some of the posts, I figured 1080p/60 would be the only HD-DVD output, as opposed to 60 and 24 support for BD.

I would seriously doubt there would be no 1080p whatsoever for HD-DVD.

You may be right that LG is second to Samsung in market share but quality is a matter of opinion and is open to debate.

It was my mistake to put that as a "fact" above, since it is indeed just my opinion. And I don't think LG is bad at all, in fact, I defended them here against some negative comments and the link to the "Goldstar" brand a couple of months ago, which was very unfair. Second in quality to Samsung is still really good, but yes, it is an opinion.

Witness the the DVD+R/-R war.

Ask JSP what he thinks of that "war." :rolleyes:

OK, so you are not old enough to remember the DVD and Divx War.
Divx machines also played regular DVDs.
And the rest, as they say, is history.

Eventually, Circuit City took a 100 million dollar write off on that clusterf*ck.
I wonder who ultimately paid for that? ;)

Translation of the piece:

Blu-ray and HD DVD: Samsung too!

During an exclusive event Samsung invited us to late February, it unveiled the future hybrid Blu-ray/HD DVD player which will launch in July: the BD-UP5000.

Cosmetically it is very similar to the BD-P1200, the single-format Blu-ray player which will come out in April in the US.

This "Duo HD Player", as the CE maker calls it, will be 100 percent operational as regards interactivity, both on Blu-ray (BD-J) as on HD DVD (HDi).

It will have an HDMI 1.3 output and it will support all the new audio formats.

It will also be possible to setup the HDMI output at 1080/24p, but only for Blu-ray.

"It's because this option is not standardised on HD DVD yet", was the explanation.

For DVD upscaling (to 720p, 1080i or 1080p), Samsung has chosen DCDi processing (as opposed to HQV on the BD-P1200) for "cost reasons".

No final price has been disclosed, but Samsung is looking at a 10 percent price differential over the single-format Blu-ray players.

In other news, the European launch of the BD-P1200 has been delayed without a date.

[caption: Dr. Shin, the father of the BD-UP5000, holds the 3-laser-diode drive specially designed for this player.]

Facts: 1. LG is second fiddle to Samsung, both in market share and quality. ...snip...



Not in the Majap world (Major Appliances).

Man, how many Sammys will that be now? :eek:

so this confirms another exclusive BD CE going neutral!! :D and yupe HD DVD will be dead by year end :D :D

how come i have a feeling that this wont be the only standalone player capable of playing HD DVD from Samsung? ... another player that plays HD DVD only maybe ;)

Don't these dual format players cost significantly more than single format players? If so, I wouldn't waste my money since HDDVD is probably going to be dead by the end of the year anyways.

Troll.

I'd like to see official word from Samsung about this but I expected them to announce one of these a few months ago.

I forsee in about 2 years from now almost every single player available will be dual format and cost $200.

(Except of course the PS3 which will only play half the movies and still cost about $400)

Am I alone to believe that these first generation so-called uniplayers will be bug ridden and extremely expensive?

Am I alone to believe that these first generation so-called uniplayers will be bug ridden and extremely expensive?

They will be expensive and yes the LG player is bug ridden (No HDi)

but prices will come down and players will improve with time.

More universal players. More software. Less fanboys.

They will be expensive and yes the LG player is bug ridden (No HDi)


Technically speaking that doesn't make it bug-ridden - rather spec-crippled. ;)

If this player is true, it's too bad they are using Faroudja for DVD upscaling (even though it's cheaper). If they were to use the Reon chipset, this would have the potential to be quite a good player for all three formats.

They will be expensive and yes the LG player is bug ridden (No HDi)

but prices will come down and players will improve with time.

So far, my LG has been working great. And I prefer it over my A1 (which does have HDi). I feel like Switzerland! Especially when I'm in the video store and treat the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray shelfs like one big single selection!

More universal players. More software. Less fanboys.
word.

If this player is true, it's too bad they are using Faroudja for DVD upscaling (even though it's cheaper). If they were to use the Reon chipset, this would have the potential to be quite a good player for all three formats.

Frankly, I'm not concerned about standard DVD playback on these units. I already have a good standard DVD player with an external scaler and video processor. So I still use that setup for standard DVD's. And I run the LG directly to projector for HD-DVD/Blu-Ray.

Not in the Majap world (Major Appliances).

Yes, I'm sure there are some market segments where LG is tops. It would be hard for that not to be the case since they are of the same scale and compete in dozens of billion-dollar annual markets, from financial services to healthcare. Maybe LG kicks Samsung's butt in the vending machine or laundry worlds, who knows? It is tiresome to qualify everything one posts, so one would assume that since we are here in Audio Visual Sciences Forum, we are talking about that market, OK?

Um...so is ther even a shred of evidence confirming this? Or is it another rumor brought on in the death throws of a format war?

A 10 percent premium (as indicated by the article translation) over single-format players (presumably blu-ray) would not be bad at all.

It's just a matter of whether Samsung truly delivers on this player. Will it really decode all the sound formats? Will it overcome the shortcomings of the LG player and for that matter Samsung's first buggy unit? If so, it will set a new standard.

Add 7.1 analog outputs and it will have me, but the trend seems to be to eliminate them altogether. I just don't get why the players have 5.1 when the soundtracks go up to 7.1 (even PCM). I guess they just don't want the added expense of those D/A converters. Sad. Nothing like forcing people to buy new receivers. I'd rather pay a hundred or a couple hundred more, than 500-600 on a receiver, but I digress.

Um...so is ther even a shred of evidence confirming this?
Yes.

Google has everything, so if it doesn't pass the Google test, its very hard to believe.

if thats the case where is this fabled Sony DVR/BD player

Sony BDPSX

Google cant find that either i guess it dosent exist

http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/21/samsungs-hd-dvd-blu-ray-combo-player-just-in-case/

June of last year.

Yes.

Well gee, since you put it that way :rolleyes:

Is there any shred of confirmation fromsomeone who has standards of evidence?

Well gee, since you put it that way :rolleyes:

Is there any shred of confirmation fromsomeone who has standards of evidence?

You mean like a website that says that it's coming? :p

Ask JSP what he thinks of that "war." :rolleyes:

OK, so you are not old enough to remember the DVD and Divx War.
Divx machines also played regular DVDs.
And the rest, as they say, is history.

DVD vs. DivX was a totally different war. Yes, there was two competing formats, but DivX was a pay-per-view media. It was overwhelming that the general public didn't want to continue to "rent it" after they already bought it.

HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray is much more like the +R/-R war, in this case. When dual format burners came out, buying +R/-R became only a matter of preference and not what you were restricted to.

If more dual format HD players come out, the same will be for this media. The only thing that will matter is what movie you want to buy. At that point, who cares if there's two formats.

You mean like a website that says that it's coming? :p

Yeah, you know like the website that said certain Spielberg movies "were coming soon to HD DVD" : :p

Naaa... it only continues the war for those who are still playing. With a universal player, you're no longer playing.

I agree, in order to be in a war one must choose a side, if you choose neutral you not taking side hence no war for you. Let the fools fight it out!

DVD vs. DivX was a totally different war. Yes, there was two competing formats, but DivX was a pay-per-view media. It was overwhelming that the general public didn't want to continue to "rent it" after they already bought it.

HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray is much more like the +R/-R war, in this case. When dual format burners came out, buying +R/-R became only a matter of preference and not what you were restricted to.

If more dual format HD players come out, the same will be for this media. The only thing that will matter is what movie you want to buy. At that point, who cares if there's two formats.
The thing is Beta was actually the superior format and survived for many years (in some cases still is surviving) in the broadcast industry due to its superior video quality vs. VHS. Funny when you consider VHS is now dead. Had there been combo players for that format war, I'm not sure what would have happened. But I think the Beta would have been the comeback kid, much like it appears BD will be.

Beta had a shortcoming in that the tapes were shorter. A two hour movie required two cassettes. Eventually, they were able to make them longer, but by then VHS had cleaned up and we were stuck with a format that was technically inferior. If there had been combo players, perhaps Beta would have survived long enough to mature and be accepted as the superior format. Once people could have their movies looking better on Beta would they keep buying VHS?

With BD vs. HD-DVD it isn't picture quality, but overall capacity and functionality (ability for more lossless language tracks, less disc switching, etc.). How many discs do people want to accomodate in their homes? Believe me I wish we'd had slim cases at the launch of the DVD format. And most of my TV series volumes don't match since no one knew WTF they were doing with packaging. Less discs = less racks = better. I only have so many walls.

And again, biggest of all, it's the movie studios and retailers who will ultimately decide the fate of the format war. More back Blu-ray. As Blu-ray pulls ahead, the temptation for neutral studios will likely be to drop HD-DVD. If retailers start pulling it (so they get some HD disc sales instead of none (customer sees two different color boxes to choose from, scratches head, walks away) this adds pressure to do that. It's cheaper to release on just one format.

If neutral studios see their BDs significantly outselling their HD-DVDs (and BDs outselling HD-DVDs generally), they will eventually realize they can drop the format selling less and eventually gain them back on BD. Remember, they LOVE reselling movies to you. When you give up on your HD-DVD player, guess what the exact same Matrix release you bought is now available for you to spin on that spiffy new BD player. (To me, this is actually the market that will be buying combo players -- early adopters who want to save space and hookups, and possibly resell their old players.) Other studios will also want to be on the winning side -- the side that is actually making money.

And while there seems any number of reasons for studios to increase their support of Blu-ray, there seems very little pressure for the Blu-ray exclusive studios to start supporting HD-DVD (except maybe in Europe, but they drive on the wrong side of the road too :)). The combo units slow this process, but I don't think they'll undo it. If combo units became the norm neutral studios would be stupid to keep producing on both formats. They could just take their pick. And they'll pick whatever is more successful. Maybe Universal wants to be the big name that drives the sale of universal players (eerie coincidence, no?) but it's asking a lot of consumers (the mainstream J6P consumers) to pay any kind of premium to be able to play their discs on the same machine they play their BDs.

Naaa... it only continues the war for those who are still playing. With a universal player, you're no longer playing.

Agree -- only people who win in the format war is / are the studios and C/E companies.

Agree -- only people who win in the format war is / are the studios and C/E companies.

i don't know if i agree with that look at the current prices, feature sets, and quality. the format war has its positives and negatives

i dont quite understand the simularities to BD vs HDDVD and DVD-R to DVD+R both will play in pretty much any player, and both hold the same ammount of data, i never understood why there were two formats anyway

Well gee, since you put it that way :rolleyes:

Is there any shred of confirmation fromsomeone who has standards of evidence?
See, there you go using that word shred again. ;)

And while there seems any number of reasons for studios to increase their support of Blu-ray, there seems very little pressure for the Blu-ray exclusive studios to start supporting HD-DVD (except maybe in Europe, but they drive on the wrong side of the road too :)).

I generally agreed with your post, except that it's only the UK that drives on the left side of the road. And Japan and Australia. But continental Europe drives on the right side of the road. Quite sure, as I was driving there last week...

Well gee, since you put it that way :rolleyes:

Is there any shred of confirmation fromsomeone who has standards of evidence?

Ottscay:

I am trying to get something from the HD DVD and BD insiders in the "Insiders" thread. So far Amir is the only one who has responded and his was shall we say "non committal." No BD insider has even attempted to respond. All I ask is "Has a BD exclusive CE Gone Neutral?"

Fair enough. I just saw three pages of speculation about what this means, and wanted to cut to the chase as to whether it even happened. If Amir is hedging his bets, I'd say "no" (remember how excited they were about the non-announcement of Meridian?).

And B.Greenway, you're right, I said "shred", and the website would fall under that broad category. Smart-a$$ remark withdrawn. I eagerly await confirmation one way or another, but in the meantime I'm filing this under my "not likely" section pending further information.

It's not on a website at all (except for this one). It's in a print magazine. The scan posted earlier does not at all look fake, but I agree that there are many reasons why it might not really happen, not the least of which being earlier Samsung head-fakes.

I do find it strange that the usual suspects (gizmodo, engadget, slashdot, hardocp...) aren't all over this. Most of those sites seem to love posting rumor material, even obvious photoshops sometimes. And they do obviously trawl avsforum for hot leads. Hi guys!! Smile and wave everybody!

I just did a Google search and the AVS thread is the only thing that came up. I hope that if Samsung is for real that it will be better than what LG put out. If Meridian was to actually make an HD-DVD player maybe they will do a uniplayer? If so since it would be a true high end player they might include SACD and DVD-A as well. And since I already own a HD-A1 there is no reason to pick up the uni Samsung. Plus I would rather have two seperate HD players in case one player fails I do not loose both. I am sure over the next 6 months we will see a number of new HDMI 1.3 HD players. Sony just posted the new player that is slated to come out this summer and will cost $599. Has anyone heard about the price point on the new Samsung?

Would be interested to see a link if anyone has one with information on the uni Samsung.

I hardley think that already owning an A-1 is reason to not buy a universal player for BD. The A-1 is 1080i.

I generally agreed with your post, except that it's only the UK that drives on the left side of the road. And Japan and Australia. But continental Europe drives on the right side of the road. Quite sure, as I was driving there last week...
Haha. I knew that was coming. Even Shakespeare bent the rules if it sounded good.:)

I hardley think that already owning an A-1 is reason to not buy a universal player for BD. The A-1 is 1080i.

"Plus I would rather have two separate HD players in case one player fails I do not loose both."

I do not think a uni player is a bad idea it that again I do not like the idea of loosing both formats if a single player goes down. I like the idea of having two players so if one goes down I can still watch the other one. If HD-DVD does indeed survive long enough and Denon or someone else builds a higher end player, I may end up buying it? I just have to many upgrades to do and not enough cash. :o

I just have to many upgrades to do and not enough cash. :o

LOL! I think maybe we all suffer from that. Although I bought the LG, I still have my A-1. I'll probably just use it on the living room TV though.

Translation of the piece:

Blu-ray and HD DVD: Samsung too!

During an exclusive event Samsung invited us to late February, it unveiled the future hybrid Blu-ray/HD DVD player which will launch in July: the BD-UP5000.

Cosmetically it is very similar to the BD-P1200, the single-format Blu-ray player which will come out in April in the US.

This "Duo HD Player", as the CE maker calls it, will be 100 percent operational as regards interactivity, both on Blu-ray (BD-J) as on HD DVD (HDi).

It will have an HDMI 1.3 output and it will support all the new audio formats.

It will also be possible to setup the HDMI output at 1080/24p, but only for Blu-ray.

"It's because this option is not standardised on HD DVD yet", was the explanation.

For DVD upscaling (to 720p, 1080i or 1080p), Samsung has chosen DCDi processing (as opposed to HQV on the BD-P1200) for "cost reasons".

No final price has been disclosed, but Samsung is looking at a 10 percent price differential over the single-format Blu-ray players.

In other news, the European launch of the BD-P1200 has been delayed without a date.

[caption: Dr. Shin, the father of the BD]


To bad they are not using the HQV chip in this dual player. That would put this player very high on my want list.

No 1080p on HD-DVD sounds like a copout. The LG does 1080p on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.

We're not playing in the format war to start with.

It's the studios that play in it. We're hapless victims of it. Now I know for the sorry lot that were drawn into the hype that the comeback kid by Toshiba was going to sieze the day and outdo the Champion out of the gate and win it that quick, so those people desperately want their investment into HD DVD, sizable for some (including me), to be worthwhile, I think you are not reading what was posted.

Universal players add a third option to a marketplace that already has too many options. General consumers don't go into a market that seems frought with uncertainty. Right now, they are holding back on BD and HD DVD to a large extent BECAUSE of that uncertainty. Throw in an expensive player that says it plays both, but not officially on one just confuses them. They say, "Why are there two standards? One of them is bound to go away."

They wait even longer.

One format wins though and the uncertainty vanishes. Universal could end this now and return certainty to the marketplace. Sure, the very small minority of consumers that have already invested in HD DVD would lose out on new discs, but they would go ahead and invest in BD now rather than wait, which would give Blu-ray that much needed push to finally come that much closer to mainstream.

As it is, consumers aren't jumping in because they're not sure what's going to play out. Dual format players don't fix this problem, they make it worse by throwing out lots of different options to confuse and delay.

Why do you think Samsung dropped the idea of a dual format player last year?

And do you really think the STUDIOS want to produce both formats? It costs them extra money to make discs on both formats because a small market is made smaller by being divided in half with different encodes (by the studios who care enough to do it), different cases, different SKU's.

Then the retailers care because they have to create shelving space for two different versions of the same movie in high definition because of dual format players extending the war.

So we aren't playing in it, but we are certainly going to be hurt by it in the longterm when high def disc prices don't drop below that 20 mark they're at now due to economies of scale not favoring a two format market.

And do consumers really want to pay more for a player that plays both? Or worse have to buy two players just to get all the movies they want?

I know I hated it and I hold Universal and Toshiba responsible for this problem. When two parties disagree, I'll hold the one with the easier solution to blame if that solution isn't done in the interests of the market. Universal and Toshiba could have ended this before it began, but were too self-interested to think of the market.

Meanwhile, the rest of the market was behind the other solution. U and T wanted to be difficult, so here we are. Sure they came out first, but only because they HAD to or they'd be dead already.

The war needs to end. Universal needs to end it now. Just like has been said, even if Universal went neutral, your discs you've already bought would not stop working. Another scenario is that dual format players replace Blu-ray players in the marketplace forth most part but that cheaper HD DVD alone players find their niche at the low end for people that want HD upconversion of theri standard DVDs but don't care about Blu-ray content or don't want to pay the price premium.

Eventually dual format players dominate.

Ottscay:

I am trying to get something from the HD DVD and BD insiders in the "Insiders" thread. So far Amir is the only one who has responded and his was shall we say "non committal." No BD insider has even attempted to respond. All I ask is "Has a BD exclusive CE Gone Neutral?" I was told by Samsung people at CES a couple months ago that this player was under development.

Formal announcements of these things were beyond their scope but work on these items is somewhat of an open secret.

They said at the time that first announcements of it would be in the April time frame so this is consistent with it being real.

Eventually dual format players dominate.

I think this would be a logical progression for this whole format battle mess, assuming high quality dual format players become widely available at a competitive price

If only these had come to market at the start of the release of HD DVD and BR :o

[question just for fun: if you put a Total HD dual format disc in a dual format player: which side would you prefer to play?]

I was told by Samsung people at CES a couple months ago that this player was under development.

Formal announcements of these things were beyond their scope but work on these items is somewhat of an open secret.

They said at the time that first announcements of it would be in the April time frame so this is consistent with it being real.

Kosty,

Amir is the only one who has anything to say on this. The "Insiders" thread is quiet on this one. No one has come out and denied it though. I guess we will just have to watch for (or not) future announcement from Samsung.

Some people seem to think the HD DVD side won't be outputting 1080p period. My take is that it will output 1080p/60 just not 1080p/24.

[question just for fun: if you put a Total HD dual format disc in a dual format player: which side would you prefer to play?]

If I have a choice, I wouldn't buy a dual HD format disk. And I find the current "dual format" HD disks with standard DVD formats as nothing but a total ripoff (a reason to charge an addition 5 bucks on top of an already premium price, for a useless second copy of the same movie on the same disk).

However, Now that I do have a dual HD format player, I have wondered which format I would buy, if both we're available. The answer is, I don't know. If there is a price difference, then I'll most likely take the least expensive. Frankly, this is where I think the "War" would be benificial to consumers. Sparking a "price war" instead of a "format war".

I think this would be a logical progression for this whole format battle mess, assuming high quality dual format players become widely available at a competitive price

If only these had come to market at the start of the release of HD DVD and BR :o

[question just for fun: if you put a Total HD dual format disc in a dual format player: which side would you prefer to play?]

Buying any THD disc....would be anything but fun....more like moronic.

I see a dual player and THD, as a way for Warner to keep porting the lower GB, lower bandwidth hd dvd versions of movies....instead of the 50 gb high bandwidth version....that happens to be the number 1 selling disc so far.

We don't need uni players...we need one format for the masses to adopt.
Anything that stands in the way of one format....leads to downloads taking over sooner..rather than later.

We don't need uni players...we need one format for the masses to adopt.

I would have agreed with this about two years ago. Now I think it's a moot point, seeing how we HAVE two formats.


Anything that stands in the way of one format....leads to downloads taking over sooner..rather than later.

This I totally disagree with.

We don't need uni players...we need one format for the masses to adopt.

HD DVD could have been that format. A complete spec, fully compliant players, lower cost of players, quicker, easier, and more cost effective disc replication for the studios. If anyone has made a dual format player necessary, it is Sony, Fox, and Disney.

questions..sorry if it has been covered already

a) DTS-HD decoder on board?
b) Analog sound outputs?

HD DVD could have been that format. A complete spec, fully compliant players, lower cost of players, quicker, easier, and more cost effective disc replication for the studios. If anyone has made a dual format player necessary, it is Sony, Fox, and Disney.


If BD did not come into the market.....yes hd dvd could easily be that format no doubt.

BD did arrive though, is superior in GB and bandwidth as well as giving us both hi res picture as well as audio that 30 gb is not always enough space for.

BD was thought to be the format that would win this so called war from the beggining...and after a rough patch... it is currently doing so.
Did anyone actually believe the PS3 would not have a huge affect on sales...well before it launched ?
I never had a doubt.
What we have is companies that were not able to comprehend that BD would sell more than hd dvd...once BD got its act together...now coming out with universal players that will not sell well because of cost.

Warner makes one attempt at a 50gb with PCM BD release....and it turns out to be the number 1 selling disc to this point on either format.
Yet they still plan on THD....which will sell for 40-50.00...further hurting any mass adoption with not only price....but also confusing the masses with three sections of discs instead of two.

But its Sony, Disney and Fox's fault :confused:

We can't keep looking at this as early adopter A/V enthusiast and expect to end up with anything other than downloads in our future.

The only way the masses will ever adopt HD discs ...is with one format...and of course cheaper pricing of both hardware and software.
I see universal players and THD discs as the opposite of whats really needed to go beyond less than nitchie.

Please leave the pon-pons at the door of this thread.

What we have is companies that were not able to comprehend that BD would sell more than hd dvd...once BD got its act together...now coming out with universal players that will not sell well because of cost.



IF they are priced at a 10% premium as stated earlier for this Samsung, then I think they will sell very well. If they get cheap enough to undercut the PS3, then its BD playing capabilities become simply a feature rather than a reason to buy.

This is a multibillion dollar chess game going on.

Another scenario is that dual format players replace Blu-ray players in the marketplace forth most part but that cheaper HD DVD alone players find their niche at the low end for people that want HD upconversion of theri standard DVDs but don't care about Blu-ray content or don't want to pay the price premium.Actually what I am seeing are universal players, high-end BD players, low-end BD players, high-end HD DVD players, and low-end HD DVD players. Everyone is covering their bases. ;)

Eventually dual format players dominate.PS3 is going dual format? :)

Kosty,

Amir is the only one who has anything to say on this. The "Insiders" thread is quiet on this one. No one has come out and denied it though. I guess we will just have to watch for (or not) future announcement from Samsung.

Some people seem to think the HD DVD side won't be outputting 1080p period. My take is that it will output 1080p/60 just not 1080p/24.
That's a very good point. The early posts here sort of implied that HD DVD would be output at 1080i - but the translation above shows that HD DVD will be output at 1080p, but not 1080p24.

This player will be a good addition to the market.

With the audio support presumably for both formats too.

If the 1080p/24 is the only disparity between HD DVD and Bluray playback, I may well place an order for one of these.

The real test will be the PQ, of course.

PS3 is going dual format? :)

PS3 is going where game consoles have gone before : to mostly gamers interested in games first. Because the first batch of hardcore video afficionados bought it as a cheaper BR player, and starving gamers bought some BR movies while waiting doesn't make it the holy grail.

Let's be realistic : as much as some would like it to happen, BR is very unlikely to crush HD DVD and both will most likely co-exist for a long while. In that kind of scenario, the sooner full featured, affordable, universal players enter the picture, the better for everybody.

No it doesn't. It makes it irrelevant. Witness the the DVD+R/-R war.

.
That war is dead.
I don't know of any CE's making players for only + or -
every DVD burner I've owned for the past several years has supported both formats.
Occasionally -R discs are cheaper and the alpine unit in my truck seems to like them better but there really isn't a war between +/- anymore it's dead has been.

More universal players. More software. Less fanboys.
werd.
Getting to enjoy all movies regardless of format is better than bickering about one being superior when in the real world neither shows an advantage once the product got off the paper.

PS3 is going where game consoles have gone before : to mostly gamers interested in games first. Because the first batch of hardcore video afficionados bought it as a cheaper BR player, and starving gamers bought some BR movies while waiting doesn't make it the holy grail.

Let's be realistic : as much as some would like it to happen, BR is very unlikely to crush HD DVD and both will most likely co-exist for a long while. In that kind of scenario, the sooner full featured, affordable, universal players enter the picture, the better for everybody.
Or in the case of a few people I know the PS3 converted them to gamers. Myself included. I bought it was a cheapest BD player to compliment my HD-A2. Now I find myself spending much more time gaming on it than watching movies. I played Ridge Racer 7 yesterday for nearly 6 hours doing the Grand Prix.

Amir is the only one who has anything to say on this. The "Insiders" thread is quiet on this one. No one has come out and denied it though.How can anyone but a Samsung insider deny what Samsung might or might not release?!? I haven't seen anyone here claiming to be from Samsung, so lack of a denial means nothing.

Well, this isn't independent confirmation, but at least Engadget gives it a mention:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/04/09/rumors-of-a-samsung-bd-up5000-combo-player-swirl-again/

Their "source" is a really bad translation from Japanese of a site which has the French article in it. Ok...

PS3 is going where game consoles have gone before : to mostly gamers interested in games first. Because the first batch of hardcore video afficionados bought it as a cheaper BR player, and starving gamers bought some BR movies while waiting doesn't make it the holy grail.

Let's be realistic : as much as some would like it to happen, BR is very unlikely to crush HD DVD and both will most likely co-exist for a long while. In that kind of scenario, the sooner full featured, affordable, universal players enter the picture, the better for everybody.

All in your opinion of course.

My opinion is that if Blu-ray can bring 4-5 killer titles of the magnitude of Casino Royale to market for Christmas 2007, amd a cheaper player. times up for HD-DVD as anything other than a niche product, ala Laserdisc.

HD-DVD won't go away, but it's sales and impact will be limited.

Dual players are pefect fo HD-DVD owners looking to jump on the Blu-ray bandwagon.

longshot,

Yeah, you know like the website that said certain Spielberg movies "were coming soon to HD DVD"

Yeah, you know like the website that said certain Fox movies "were coming soon to BD :)

Just my opinion but something doesn't sound right about the French article on this rumored universal player from Samsung. A 10% increase in cost doesn't sound like it would be enough to cover the additional royalties, hardware, and testing that would be needed to make a fully compliant universal player. Also so far it looks like the French article is the only source for this rumor.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/samsungs-combo-hd-dvdbluray-player-182234.php

Just my opinion but something doesn't sound right about the French article on this rumored universal player from Samsung. A 10% increase in cost doesn't sound like it would be enough to cover the additional royalties, hardware, and testing that would be needed to make a fully compliant universal player. Also so far it looks like the French article is the only source for this rumor.

Richard, my contacts have confirmed Samsung's development of a hybrid HD DVD/BD player. The retail will be around $1k. and it will be fully BD-J and HD DVD compliant.

-Robert

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/samsungs-combo-hd-dvdbluray-player-182234.phpOnce again the French article is the only source I know of that mentions this rumored universal player from Samsung. The article you linked to was from the summer of last year and says that they were considering a universal player.


Richard, my contacts have confirmed Samsung's development of a hybrid HD DVD/BD player. The retail will be around $1k. and it will be fully BD-J and HD DVD compliant.Well with an MSRP of around $1000 that would sound more likely though I would still recommend caution in believing everything in that French article. Also Robert did any of your contacts mention details about this universal player?

Richard, my contacts have confirmed Samsung's development of a hybrid HD DVD/BD player. The retail will be around $1k. and it will be fully BD-J and HD DVD compliant.

-Robert

Robert,

Will this player have the Reon chipset and what is the timing of release? Thanks.

Robert,

Very interesting - thanks for the confirmation. It would be great to hear anything else that can be disclosed at this point.

$1K is still fat cost imho.

Might be around $850 street price though? Still, not bad. Would cost around that for 2 separate machines.

$1K is still fat cost imho.

Yep. 600 bucks, IMHO, is the magic number. Also, it needs to be able to play DVD-A & SACD. Where is OPPO when you really need them :D


edit: Well I have gone over 500 posts! :eek:

If its less than $900 I am in!

I am so glad I wasn't tempted enough to pick up the A2 this week at best buy.

Instead I grabbed the Harmony 880 for only $115 thanks to an employee discount!

$1K is still fat cost imho.
Luckily the majority of us don't pay retail.

With A2's at $299 and the number of Blu-Ray players increasing, I don't see a market for this thing for much over $600. At least not for Samsung. If Denon announced a similar player for $1,499, you can bet there would be plenty of interest though.

I think 10% more price could still be correct if they did not used the Reon and used DCDI instead. But for me that a deal breaker. The prices for HD-DVD player are falling and I just get me a very godd bluray with Reon now and wait to buy for a HD-DVD player later (if necessary).

What's interesting about this player is that it supposedly decodes ALL advanced codecs. That might make it worthwhile for the higher price along with doing both bd-java and hdi

What's interesting about this player is that it supposedly decodes ALL advanced codecs. That might make it worthwhile for the higher price along with doing both bd-java and hdi

If this is true, then this player should be the best high definition disc player for the time being. The specs of the Samsung are ALMOST perfect except for the fact that it will not support 24 fps on 1080p for HD-DVD, only 60 fps. Blu-Ray discs will support 24 fps.

Overall though, this sounds like a fantastic high def player! :)

What's interesting about this player is that it supposedly decodes ALL advanced codecs. That might make it worthwhile for the higher price along with doing both bd-java and hdi


Just to make sure I understand. Decodes all codecs & then that it outputs (the decoded data) LPCM via HDMI?

for $1k, I wont dip into samsung

Just my opinion but something doesn't sound right about the French article on this rumored universal player from Samsung. A 10% increase in cost doesn't sound like it would be enough to cover the additional royalties, hardware, and testing that would be needed to make a fully compliant universal player. Also so far it looks like the French article is the only source for this rumor.
You are assuming that they sell their other BD players at cost - whcih they clearly don't. There is plenty enough room for them to introduce this player at the same price and still handle any additional licence costs, IMO, let alone a 10% premium.

What's interesting about this player is that it supposedly decodes ALL advanced codecs. That might make it worthwhile for the higher price along with doing both bd-java and hdi
Agreed - it's a very good addition to the market.

I think that anyone in the market for a Bluray standalone player should pick up one of these instead, given that there is less differential in price. It'll probably street for less $$ than equivalent BD standalone players which can decode all the advanced audio codecs...

Yes, RDJam, everyone should pick up this mysterious universal player with incredible specs and an amazing price for which not a single shred of credible evidence can be found.

Yes, RDJam, everyone should pick up this mysterious universal player with incredible specs and an amazing price for which not a single shred of credible evidence can be found.

This is not good enough for you? :

my contacts have confirmed Samsung's development of a hybrid HD DVD/BD player. The retail will be around $1k. and it will be fully BD-J and HD DVD compliant.

I find Robert's sources legitimate, so expect the Samsung BD-UP5000 this summer :D

No. Robert means well and I truly believe he wants to serve his customers well, but he has posted information here numerous times which turned out to be incorrect. Sometimes his sources gave him bad information, sometimes his understanding was incorrect, but in the absence of any independent corroborating data I remain unconvinced.

Agreed - it's a very good addition to the market.

I think that anyone in the market for a Bluray standalone player should pick up one of these instead, given that there is less differential in price. It'll probably street for less $$ than equivalent BD standalone players which can decode all the advanced audio codecs...

yup, if retailed at $650 ;)

No. Robert means well and I truly believe he wants to serve his customers well, but he has posted information here numerous times which turned out to be incorrect. Sometimes his sources gave him bad information, sometimes his understanding was incorrect, but in the absence of any independent corroborating data I remain unconvinced.

well, he did say that upconverted dvd on an hd dvd player looks just as good as BD. he also recently said that his reliable contact told him the newest samsung BD player doesnt do 1080p24.

you can never trust samsung :o

you can never trust samsung :o

Yes and that is just the reason. I that is hard to get correct from them and thats not his fault. I do appreciate that Robert was to help us and provides new information. I do believe that even Samsung wasn't sure if they should give 24p already to the BP1200. The wanted to wait with that feature until G3 but to much info was out already. Anyway I hope Robert keeps up and that people don't blame him anymore.

http://www.koreanewswire.co.kr/en_read.php?id=241929&no=0&nmode=&ca=&ca1=English-&ca2=&sf=&st=&of=&nwof=&conttype=&tm=1&type=&hotissue=&sdate=&eflag=&emonth=&spno=&exid=&rg1=&rg2=&rg3=&tt=

http://www.koreanewswire.co.kr/en_read.php?id=241929&no=0&nmode=&ca=&ca1=English-&ca2=&sf=&st=&of=&nwof=&conttype=&tm=1&type=&hotissue=&sdate=&eflag=&emonth=&spno=&exid=&rg1=&rg2=&rg3=&tt=

Thank you Preditor74!!

The news on the provided link provides concrete evidence that the Samsung BD-UP5000 will indeed make its way here "in time for the holidays" as the article states. This is very good news indeed and if the rumored specs are true (full advanced audio codec support, HDMI 1.3, full BD-J & HD-i support, 24 fps support with BD - not HD-DVD - , and DCDi upconversion support) , then this universal player is all mine!! :D :D

P.S. - as long as the MSRP is below or at 1k...I'll bite. 1k really means at least $900 (who pays the MSRP price?).

Thank you Preditor74!!

The news on the provided link provides concrete evidence that the Samsung BD-UP5000 will indeed make its way here "in time for the holidays" as the article states. This is very good news indeed and if the rumored specs are true (full advanced audio codec support, HDMI 1.3, full BD-J & HD-i support, 24 fps support with BD - not HD-DVD - , and DCDi upconversion support) , then this universal player is all mine!! :D :D

P.S. - as long as the MSRP is below or at 1k...I'll bite. 1k really means at least $900 (who pays the MSRP price?).

You are in the same boat I am in. I own the add on for 360 currently and want to get into Blu Ray but also would love a standalone HD-DVD player.

I was very tempted with the A2 and Best Buy's deal this week but this news made my day...and if I can get a combo player for $800-$900 I will be one happy lil' predator!

You are in the same boat I am in. I own the add on for 360 currently and want to get into Blu Ray but also would love a standalone HD-DVD player.

I was very tempted with the A2 and Best Buy's deal this week but this news made my day...and if I can get a combo player for $800-$900 I will be one happy lil' predator!

Yeah, I think this is the high def player to get. You get ALL the goodies HD has to offer in one box! :D

By the way, further proof that the Samsung player is coming soon!! :

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/04/12/samsung-bd-up5000-dual-format-blu-ray-hd-dvd-combo-player-on-the/

Engadget HD pretty much explains the news from the Korean article.

No. Robert means well and I truly believe he wants to serve his customers well, but he has posted information here numerous times which turned out to be incorrect. Sometimes his sources gave him bad information, sometimes his understanding was incorrect, but in the absence of any independent corroborating data I remain unconvinced.
It would seem Robert is more of an insider than some others here ;)
Humble pie?

Hahahaha

That's classic. Perhaps "Talk" should do a bit more "listening"

it is rather surprising that someone who presents himself as a BD insider and claims to have all this "inside" information was completely oblivious to the existence of the player.

Oh yes, there goes the BD braintrust's argument of only one CE manufacturer supporting HD DVD. Of course we know their reply - "you can have Samsung because they make second rate players"

Hahahaha

That's classic. Perhaps "Talk" should do a bit more "listening"
LOL!!!!!!!!!! :p

Robert means well, but I have noticed he has been wrong quite a few times. I think more "listening" is a wise assessment... :D

Robert means well, but I have noticed he has been wrong quite a few times. I think more "listening" is a wise assessment... :D

He's right this time! The new Samsung BD-UP5000 is confirmed!

Check out:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/04/12/samsung-bd-up5000-dual-format-blu-ray-hd-dvd-combo-player-on-the/

or

http://www.koreanewswire.co.kr/en_read.php?id=241929&no=0&nmode=&ca=&ca1=English-&ca2=&sf=&st=&of=&nwof=&conttype=&tm=1&type=&hotissue=&sdate=&eflag=&emonth=&spno=&exid=&rg1=&rg2=&rg3=&tt=

Talk always comes off as so arrogant. He could learn a lot from fellow insider Paidgeek who avoids mud slinging and simply answers questions posted in a professional manner. Since he was so quick to belittle Robert, perhaps he will take the high road and also offer an apology.

He's right this time! The new Samsung BD-UP5000 is confirmed!

Check out:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/04/12/samsung-bd-up5000-dual-format-blu-ray-hd-dvd-combo-player-on-the/

or

http://www.koreanewswire.co.kr/en_read.php?id=241929&no=0&nmode=&ca=&ca1=English-&ca2=&sf=&st=&of=&nwof=&conttype=&tm=1&type=&hotissue=&sdate=&eflag=&emonth=&spno=&exid=&rg1=&rg2=&rg3=&tt=
Yep - confirmed indeed.

I never doubted it for a second, as some folks know.

Seoul, Apr 13 (Korea Newswire)-- Samsung Electronics Co., LTD., a leader in consumer electronics and digital media technologies, and the first company to introduce a Blu-ray disc player will introduce a dual format High-Definition (HD) optical disc player in time for the holidays.

Samsung’s Duo HD player (BD-UP5000) will fully support both HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc formats and their interactive technologies, HDi and BD-Java. With the Duo HD consumers can enjoy additional studio content such as trailers, director’s comments, more elaborate interactive menus and behind the scene footage. The new Duo HD joins Samsung’s next generation DVD line-up which includes Samsung’s second generation Blu-ray player available at retail this month. Together, these two models offer the consumer a strong line of High-Definition players to match Samsung’s award winning, and best selling, line of HDTVs.

"We welcome Samsung's Duo HD player as another solution in the marketplace that will help reduce consumer confusion and buyer hesitancy towards HD media," said Ron Sanders, President of Warner Home Video. "This is an innovative product that can move us closer to mainstream consumer adoption of HD technologies."

“We are very pleased to announce the upcoming release of our Duo HD player. Consumers are hungry for more HD content but are currently confused about competing formats. Samsung’s Duo HD player will allow consumers access to every HD movie title available regardless of the authoring format. Samsung is committed to making life simpler through technology and will market next generation DVD products which will satisfy the consumer and market requirement. This is a big win for the consumer.

As a member of the DVD Forum and contributor to the DVD Industry, we recognize that both HD-DVD and BD formats have merits. As such, we have decided to market a dual format player. Samsung is flexible to market a stand-alone HD-DVD player whenever consumers demand it. Our main concern is not technology but consumer choice” said Dongsoo Jun, Executive Vice President of the Digital AV Division at Samsung Electronics.

Yes, RDJam, everyone should pick up this mysterious universal player with incredible specs and an amazing price for which not a single shred of credible evidence can be found.
Oh lord - I do hate when one embarrasses oneself so... :)

http://www.koreanewswire.co.kr/en_read.php?id=241929&no=0&nmode=&ca=&ca1=English-&ca2=&sf=&st=&of=&nwof=&conttype=&tm=1&type=&hotissue=&sdate=&eflag=&emonth=&spno=&exid=&rg1=&rg2=&rg3=&tt=

But now that we all have the recommendation of one as respected as oneself, yes, perhaps "everyone should pick up" this player ;)

Oh lord - I do hate when one embarrasses oneself so... :)

http://www.koreanewswire.co.kr/en_read.php?id=241929&no=0&nmode=&ca=&ca1=English-&ca2=&sf=&st=&of=&nwof=&conttype=&tm=1&type=&hotissue=&sdate=&eflag=&emonth=&spno=&exid=&rg1=&rg2=&rg3=&tt=

But now that we all have the recommendation of one as respected as oneself, yes, perhaps "everyone should pick up" this player ;)


Oh snap!

^If the translation from Korean to English is correct, it sounds as though Samsung has become a traitor to the ONE FORMAT ONLY cause.
Oh well, so it goes....guess I'll have to go with SXRD this time instead of another DLP.

You are assuming that they sell their other BD players at cost - whcih they clearly don't.No, I expect that regardless of the type of HD player sold Samsung would sell it for a profit. After all unlike Toshiba or Sony they do not have as much a stake in the results of this format war and would have little interest in selling a CE product that doesn't make a profit.


There is plenty enough room for them to introduce this player at the same price and still handle any additional licence costs, IMO, let alone a 10% premium.This player may have been officially announced by Samsung but we still haven't gotten any official details on it and we haven't really gotten an official date for when it will come out besides sometime this year. That is why I asked Robert if his contacts had heard any details on this player.

Richard

The Korean article did say that it'd be out in time for the Holidays. That far out, a lot could happen to further delay the product or even for it be be cancelled.

Something to think about. If the BluRay or HD-DVD only studios were to go format neutral, would anyone really care if they had a universal player or not? I think its a matter of time before the studios do this as they're leaving too much money on the table by not doing so.

The news is officially on the Samsung website now. Take a look here (http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20070413_0000338109)

I'd certainly like one of these players!

Not only is it confiirmed in Samsung official website, there is talk that they are also interested in an HD DVD STANDALONE!!! :eek:

http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20070413_0000338109

13, Apr, 2007 / SEC)

SAMSUNG Electronics to Release Duo Hd Player

Seoul, Korea – April 13, 2007 : Samsung Electronics Co., LTD., a leader in consumer electronics and digital media technologies, and the first company to introduce a Blu-ray disc player will introduce a dual format High-Definition (HD) optical disc player in time for the holidays.

Samsung’s Duo HD player (BD-UP5000) will fully support both HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc formats and their interactive technologies, HDi and BD-Java. With the Duo HD consumers can enjoy additional studio content such as trailers, director’s comments, more elaborate interactive menus and behind the scene footage. The new Duo HD joins Samsung’s next generation DVD line-up which includes Samsung’s second generation Blu-ray player available at retail this month. Together, these two models offer the consumer a strong line of High-Definition players to match Samsung’s award winning, and best selling, line of HDTVs.

"We welcome Samsung's Duo HD player as another solution in the marketplace that will help reduce consumer confusion and buyer hesitancy towards HD media," said Ron Sanders, President of Warner Home Video. "This is an innovative product that can move us closer to mainstream consumer adoption of HD technologies."

“We are very pleased to announce the upcoming release of our Duo HD player. Consumers are hungry for more HD content but are currently confused about competing formats. Samsung’s Duo HD player will allow consumers access to every HD movie title available regardless of the authoring format. Samsung is committed to making life simpler through technology and will market next generation DVD products which will satisfy the consumer and market requirement. This is a big win for the consumer.

As a member of the DVD Forum and contributor to the DVD Industry, we recognize that both HD-DVD and BD formats have merits. As such, we have decided to market a dual format player. Samsung is flexible to market a stand-alone HD-DVD player whenever consumers demand it. Our main concern is not technology but consumer choice” said Dongsoo Jun, Executive Vice President of the Digital AV Division at Samsung Electronics. :eek:

This doesn't make sense. War is over according to fanboys and Sony and 15 year old kids who just got a PS3 from his Momma and joined AVS and start infecting this forum with troll posts.

or

Samsung just didn't get the memo.

This doesn't make sense. War is over according to fanboys and Sony and 15 year old kids who just got a PS3 from his Momma and joined AVS and start infecting this forum with troll posts.

or

Samsung just didn't get the memo.
;)

I want to thank robena for first posting the information ahead of absolutely anyone else, to the disbelief of many.

Now it's a pity that it won't be coming out in July, but rather nearer Christmas. Silver lining - it will then probably have BD 1.1 Profile.

^If the translation from Korean to English is correct, it sounds as though Samsung has become a traitor to the ONE FORMAT ONLY cause.
Oh well, so it goes....guess I'll have to go with SXRD this time instead of another DLP.

Ahhh a jilted lover ;)

Did we really think this war was going to end quickly? I'd be a wee bit worried about Panasonic now. They've been awfully quiet about future BD plans.

I think the player to watch for is the 2nd generation Universal stuff next year. Although there's still a chance that Universal players could be stunted if Universal Studios goes Neutral next year.

I contend that if they announce they have no plans for neutrality at CES 2008 there will be a flood of migration to Universal players. I wouldn't be surprised if Onkyo's player is a Universal as well.

The news is officially on the Samsung website now. Take a look here (http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20070413_0000338109)

I'd certainly like one of these players!


Yep, that's as official as it gets!!!

Funny how the BD fanboys denied and said there is no way in hell this would happen.

With the amount of rumors going around it was obvious this was gonna happy. Just a matter of when. This is a huge win for HD DVD.

Who's next?

Whatever happened with "BluRay wouldn't allow a HD-DVD" in the same box? wasn't that the arguement thrown at us in other universal player discussions? or is Samsung violating some kind of licensing agreement?

So if Sony has declared victory and HD DVD is a dead format, why is Samsung making a dual format player? Anyone care to spin this one?

Sony still thinks that Beta won the tape war. :)

Richard, my contacts have confirmed Samsung's development of a hybrid HD DVD/BD player. The retail will be around $1k. and it will be fully BD-J and HD DVD compliant.

-Robert

Would someone please explain to me how a hybrid player with an MSRP around $1K will have any effect upon mass adoption--especially by the holidays?

The only thing I see it doing is convincing JSP that hybrid is the way to go, so he won't buy either single format player. He'll just wait until the hybrid gets real cheap; but how's it going to do that if it doesn't sell in quantity? This may be a "catch 22" in the brewing.

Would someone please explain to me how a hybrid player with an MSRP around $1K will have any effect upon mass adoption--especially by the holidays?

The only thing I see it doing is convincing JSP that hybrid is the way to go, so he won't buy either single format player. He'll just wait until the hybrid gets real cheap; but how's it going to do that if it doesn't sell in quantity? This may be a "catch 22" in the brewing.

What it probably WILL do is support Universal, Fox, and Disney staying exclusive to their chosen format, as it will reduce the number of 'lost sales'.

Whether that is a good or bad thing depends on your point of view.....

What it probably WILL do is support Universal, Fox, and Disney staying exclusive to their chosen format, as it will reduce the number of 'lost sales'.

Whether that is a good or bad thing depends on your point of view.....

Whoever comes out with the $200 HD-DVD player, will do a lot more to sway the studios than any $1,000 universal player.

<snip>
The only thing I see it doing is convincing JSP that hybrid is the way to go, so he won't buy either single format player. He'll just wait until the hybrid gets real cheap; but how's it going to do that if it doesn't sell in quantity? This may be a "catch 22" in the brewing.

JSP will buy an HD DVD player for 300 bucks and start enjoying HD content right away for a relatively affordable investment. Later he'll get the dual format player and put the HD DVD player in the upstairs office or bedroom.

Whoever comes out with the $200 HD-DVD player, will do a lot more to sway the studios than any $1,000 universal player.

I agree. With the sale at cc, we are close to an effective $250 HD-DVD player already and it's still April. I believe that the mass consumer will not be willing to pay for two single format players and will pay only a very slight premium, if any, to buy into a dual format player. So when HD-DVD players reach $200, what would the average person pay for the dual format- $300? Even that is probably a stretch.

$300 is about 5X the cost of the of the average DVD player at Wal-mart. Will JSP pay 5X to go from DVD to HD/BD? Probably not.

What I believe for certain, is that if Samsung thinks a $1,000 player of any kind will sell in quantity by the end of this year, they are not thinking clearly. Samsung is geared to sell in the mass market at a profit. This player would be way, way overpriced, unless that $1k is just speculation and way off. Let's hope so.

JSP will buy an HD DVD player for 300 bucks and start enjoying HD content right away for a relatively affordable investment. Later he'll get the dual format player and put the HD DVD player in the upstairs office or bedroom.


The recent sale at cc put the "effective" price of the A-2 below $300 already, and from posts I've read they did sell briskly. I think that a $199 price and visibility in places like Wal-mart and Sam's club, with no gimmicks, may bring the average consumer aboard en mass . Maybe. However, JSP, isn't stupid; he's well aware of the split in content, and he doesn't like risk. We will see if the low prices are enough to obviate the risk in his mind, or if the presence of a true multi format capable player highlights that risk even more. I don't know the answer. We will see. If it's a $1k dual format player, then perhaps it's not even relevant. If it comes out as a $600 MSRP dual format player, then perhaps people will perceive it as worth waiting for.

JSP will buy an HD DVD player for 300 bucks and start enjoying HD content right away for a relatively affordable investment. Later he'll get the dual format player and put the HD DVD player in the upstairs office or bedroom.

JSP needs to buy an HDTV first.

JSP needs to buy an HDTV first.
Since prices are dropping, HDTV sales increasing, and SDtv's getting phased out, it's getting much easier for JSP to buy into HD.

JSP will buy an HD DVD player for 300 bucks and start enjoying HD content right away for a relatively affordable investment. Later he'll get the dual format player and put the HD DVD player in the upstairs office or bedroom.

you're insane. "J6P" will continue to watch sd dvds on his $30 walmart bought dvd player and not upgrade. Expecting the average consumer to shell out $300 for hd is laughable.

you're insane. "J6P" will continue to watch sd dvds on his $30 walmart bought dvd player and not upgrade. Expecting the average consumer to shell out $300 for hd is laughable.


IAWTP. I have yet to understand the fixation on J6P at this point. The average customer was not a factor in DVD adoption until the second or third year, and like tutelary said, it was those sub-$100 players that really made DVD a mass-market product. HDDVD/BR, on the other hand, appear to havea much slower rate of adoption, so it will be even longer that the format caters to enthusiasts rather than J6P.

Since the universal Samsung player is coming out, it might be the best option for me because I really want to enjoy both the new high def formats. I really hate choosing a format...so both of them would be the best option. Of course I'm assuming the Samsung will perfectly play both formats, if not then I'm not biting.

If I do get this player, then theres no point in getting the PS3 (my initial decision) because half the reason I wanted a PS3 was for Blu-ray playback. I am a gamer though and I don't have any of the new consoles, so the Xbox 360 would seem like a wise decision. I would only use the 360 to play games...(there are much better games on the 360 for now IMO).

All I'm saying is that if I get the Samsung (which I likely will), then I will not get the PS3 but rather the Xbox 360. :rolleyes:

In essence, the Samsung BD-UP5000 has changed my initial decisions! :)

In essence, the Samsung BD-UP5000 has changed my initial decisions! :)


I'm somewhat in the same boat. I currently own an A1, but have been seriously considering adding a PS3 (20 gb if possible, but seems less likely that I'll be able to find one now) to get BD exclusive content.

However, I have little to no interest in gaming, and if the Samsung is a reasonably priced (<$800 street), well-built and fully functional player, I'd rather buy it than a PS3 and use it as my main player (relegating the A1 to the bedroom)

I'd rather buy it than a PS3 and use it as my main player (relegating the A1 to the bedroom)

That would be the ideal thing to do in your case. This player will hopefully make a lot of people happy to jump in the HD bandwagon. I think Samsung has made a good decision with its hybrid player.

No. Robert means well and I truly believe he wants to serve his customers well, but he has posted information here numerous times which turned out to be incorrect. Sometimes his sources gave him bad information, sometimes his understanding was incorrect, but in the absence of any independent corroborating data I remain unconvinced.You say what? :rolleyes:

http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20070413_0000338109

From the Samsung press release "Samsung is flexible to market a stand-alone HD-DVD player whenever consumers demand it. Our main concern is not technology but consumer choice” said Dongsoo Jun, Executive Vice President of the Digital AV Division at Samsung Electronics."

I don't know about you all, but I think consumer demanded one format from the begining. What kind of BS is this?

Another report link:
Home Media Magazine (http://www.homemediaretailing.com/news/html/breaking_article.cfm?sec_id=2&&article_ID=10525)

From the Samsung press release "Samsung is flexible to market a stand-alone HD-DVD player whenever consumers demand it. Our main concern is not technology but consumer choice” said Dongsoo Jun, Executive Vice President of the Digital AV Division at Samsung Electronics."

I don't know about you all, but I think consumer demanded one format from the begining. What kind of BS is this?

Which one did they "demand"?

Samsung IMHO is not a top notch company when it comes to players. And even if its better than there first Blu-ray offering I would not buy it! It's nice to see dual format players coming out as I feel it might help promote the HD formats. In the short term it might help make HD formats become more accepted. But in the long run one of these formats needs to die and there needs to be a winner, one way or the other. And besides LG and Samsung there is another company that will be offering an HD-DVD player, a well known company called Onkyo.

I am saving up for a Blu-ray player currently and will most likely buy most of my HD movies on Blu-ray. I also own an HD-A1 that I have been very happy with and will continue to buy movies for, especially when Battlestar Galactica Season 1 comes out. As long as HD-DVD survives long enough or wins the war I will look into upgrading my current HD-DVD player to a something better that also includes HDMI 1.3.



I love movies in HD! :D

From the Samsung press release "Samsung is flexible to market a stand-alone HD-DVD player whenever consumers demand it. Our main concern is not technology but consumer choice” said Dongsoo Jun, Executive Vice President of the Digital AV Division at Samsung Electronics."

I don't know about you all, but I think consumer demanded one format from the begining. What kind of BS is this?

It's the kind of B.S. that attracts more customers to your product. Case in point, read the HD DVD board. There are some genuinely excited people over there that would like to part with their money for the chance to have both formats and Samsung is recognizing that. Your personal opinion is obviously in the minority or they wouldn't have made the move. As for what consumers wanted how do you know what I wanted? I don't care which format takes off, if either. I want HD movies and this is the best way right now. If this fails I'll move onto whatever else comes along. I welcome the move by Samsung. Nothing is stopping the studios from still supporting their format of choice, this just gives people a way to enjoy both. What's wrong with that? I think every player should be a combo deck. That's just me though. ;)

Samsung IMHO is not a top notch company when it comes to players. And even if its better than there first Blu-ray offering I would not buy it!

You did qualify your statement with "IMHO", so your comment is noted as your opinion. I still feel it bears pointing out that your opinion has little basis in fact. Indeed, Samsung's post-firmware BD player is actually one of the nicer players of that format for overall performance and user interface, bearing in mind it has pretty much the same limitations most other players that cost more also have.

And besides LG and Samsung there is another company that will be offering an HD-DVD player, a well known company called Onkyo.

If Onkyo is indeed releasing a next gen disc player, I have zero doubt it will be OEM from someone else. All of Onkyo's past DVD players that I know of have been based on other OEM chassis. Another brand name will be all well and good, but I would prefer to see Panasonic or Pioneer release either a combo or HD DVD. These companies actually design and build their own.

I don't know about you all, but I think consumer demanded one format from the begining. What kind of BS is this?

I hate to add fuel to the fire, but so did the dvd forum. It was called AOD or what is now known as hddvd.

Sony is the one company more than all the others who screwed this up. Much like the failure of SACD which started out of all things as a 2 channel format, HELLO!!! the Bluray disc has had more than its share of problems. Inefficient ancient codecs, the vast majority of discs are lacking special features from the dvd, interactive features that won't play and specs for them that won't be finalized for 6 months, and ridiculously priced players! As a whole the format is starting to get its act together with AVC encodes, keeping the special features from the dvd, and using advanced audio codecs like DTS-HD. In my opinion though they are still easily in hddvd's dust and trying to catch up.

Uh, OK.

I hate to add fuel to the fire, but so did the dvd forum. It was called AOD or what is now known as hddvd.

Sony is the one company more than all the others who screwed this up. Much like the failure of SACD which started out of all things as a 2 channel format, HELLO!!! the Bluray disc has had more than its share of problems. Inefficient ancient codecs, the vast majority of discs are lacking special features from the dvd, interactive features that won't play and specs for them that won't be finalized for 6 months, and ridiculously priced players! As a whole the format is starting to get its act together with AVC encodes, keeping the special features from the dvd, and using advanced audio codecs like DTS-HD. In my opinion though they are still easily in hddvd's dust and trying to catch up.

Exactly right. Sony tried to strong-arm the DVD forum into BR by developping its own next-gen format and starting the BDA, effectively changing the outlook of patents and royalties in its favor and short-changing Toshiba in the process. Unfortunately for Sony and to a lesser extent for the BDA, the DVD forum changed its election process in order to launch HD DVD, something the BDA tried to prevent.

After Samsung now announcing its duo player, all is needed to achieve complete status quo in this war is one defective studio from the BR camp. That will come in time, once studios realize PS3's attach rate will not allow them to crush HD DVD into oblivion like they expected. Universal players are the future IMO.

Universal players are the future IMO.I agree 110%

If Onkyo is indeed releasing a next gen disc player, I have zero doubt it will be OEM from someone else. All of Onkyo's past DVD players that I know of have been based on other OEM chassis. Another brand name will be all well and good, but I would prefer to see Panasonic or Pioneer release either a combo or HD DVD. These companies actually design and build their own.

I agree regarding Onkyo. And even with Parsons being so vehement for BR, I wouldn't be surprised if they go the universal player route also. They must not have sold too many of that $1500 MSRP blue wonder that can't even read CDs...

Universal players are the future IMO.

I agree, in principle that is. In practice, if the MSRP remains remains anywhere near 1K, as speculated, or even much higher than single format players, then they will sell mostly to enthusiasts. Mainstream mass adopters may increase their fence sitting, because they do not want to take the risk attached to a single format, and they perceive waiting for the dual format price to come way down is their best option.

Unfortunately, that my slow down the transition from DVD to high def even more. Slow sales of dual format players means a longer wait for economies of scale to kick in and for prices to drop dramatically. Now if enough manufactures hop on dual format bandwagon, then that could reduce the cost of the chips and drives much faster.

I, for one, hope that's exactly what happens. We need at least three or four of these companies to see the light and make fully functional dual format players.

After Samsung now announcing its duo player, all is needed to achieve complete status quo in this war is one defective studio from the BR camp.

I can think of several 'defective' studios in both camps.

I can think of several 'defective' studios in both camps.<rimshot> :D

I'll gladly buy a combo player once they get down to around $600 or so. I want to dump this PS3 as its a crappy videogame machine.

We need at least three or four of these companies to see the light and make fully functional dual format players.

I have great hope that this is what is going to happen.

I can think of several 'defective' studios in both camps.

Ok, you got me, "defecting" might be more like it :)

Since prices are dropping, HDTV sales increasing, and SDtv's getting phased out, it's getting much easier for JSP to buy into HD.

They may buy into HD, but that does not mean they will buy into HD-DVD/Blu-Ray. Remember the first time you watched a Progressive Scan DVD on a big screen. I do and was amazed. For most that will be enough. It seems to me that the average consumer just wants cheap, small and easy to use. Look at the ipod, My wife loves hers, and I can't stand it because I'm not impressed with the sound quality. Most people want one so they can listen to whatever they want and not have to carry around 100 CD's. If a video distribution system such as the Kaliedscope came out, but portable and cheap like a ipod. People would jump all over that , even if it was only SD DVD. Even once they flip the switch on analog TV, the people that have not ran out and replaced every TV in their house with Digital ones, will just use the government funded boxes and keep going.

BDA can beat down Universal and should....no frickin' dual format players!

No more VHS/Betamax wars and no more SACD/DVD-A wars!

ONE FORMAT ONLY, PLEASE!!!

Exactly right. Sony tried to strong-arm the DVD forum into BR by developping its own next-gen format and starting the BDA, effectively changing the outlook of patents and royalties in its favor and short-changing Toshiba in the process. Unfortunately for Sony and to a lesser extent for the BDA, the DVD forum changed its election process in order to launch HD DVD, something the BDA tried to prevent.Sorry, this is revisionist history. Sony didn't try to strongarm the DVD Forum. Most of the DVD Forum backed Sony's Blu-ray proposal (mirroring Blu-ray's vastly greater vendor support today), but Toshiba was in a position of political strength and prevented Sony's proposal from being adopted. Sony, Panasonic, and others then formed the BDA to pursue standardization outside of the DVD Forum. Since Blu-ray isn't based on underlying DVD technologies, there was really no compelling reason to standardize the format within the DVD Forum, especially when one company (Toshiba) was blocking efforts to protect their own IP in legacy DVD.
After Samsung now announcing its duo player, all is needed to achieve complete status quo in this war is one defective studio from the BR camp. That will come in time, once studios realize PS3's attach rate will not allow them to crush HD DVD into oblivion like they expected. Universal players are the future IMO.How does one of the five exclusive Blu-ray studios going neutral provide status quo? You'd still have an overwhelming studio and CE advantage for Blu-ray and millions more players in the marketplace.

Exactly right. Sony tried to strong-arm the DVD forum into BR by developping its own next-gen format and starting the BDA, effectively changing the outlook of patents and royalties in its favor and short-changing Toshiba in the process. Unfortunately for Sony and to a lesser extent for the BDA, the DVD forum changed its election process in order to launch HD DVD, something the BDA tried to prevent.Sorry, this is revisionist history. Sony didn't try to strongarm the DVD Forum. Most of the DVD Forum backed Sony's Blu-ray proposal (mirroring Blu-ray's vastly greater vendor support today), but Toshiba was in a position of political strength and prevented Sony's proposal from being adopted. Sony, Panasonic, and others then formed the BDA to pursue standardization outside of the DVD Forum. Since Blu-ray isn't based on underlying DVD technologies, there was really no compelling reason to standardize the format within the DVD Forum, especially when one company (Toshiba) was blocking efforts to protect their own IP in legacy DVD.
After Samsung now announcing its duo player, all is needed to achieve complete status quo in this war is one defective studio from the BR camp. That will come in time, once studios realize PS3's attach rate will not allow them to crush HD DVD into oblivion like they expected. Universal players are the future IMO.How does one of the five exclusive Blu-ray studios going neutral provide status quo? You'd still have an overwhelming studio and CE advantage for Blu-ray and millions more players in the marketplace.

It would seem Robert is more of an insider than some others here ;)
Humble pie?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10286912&&#post10286912
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10284860&&#post10284860

Agreed!

http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20070413_0000338109

Funny thing. My Samsung rep came in yesterday and new nothing about the new duel format player. I printed her the Korean news wire release for her to take with her.

new duel format player.

Dunno if that was on purpose Chip, but it sure got a chuckle out of me! :D

du·el (dōō'əl, dyōō'-) Pronunciation Key
n.
1. A prearranged, formal combat between two persons, usually fought to settle a point of honor.
2. A struggle for domination between two contending persons, groups, or ideas.



du·al (dōō'əl, dyōō'-) Pronunciation Key
adj.
1. Composed of two usually like or complementary parts; double: dual controls for pilot and copilot; a car with dual exhaust pipes.
2. Having a double character or purpose: a belief in the dual nature of reality.

I almost wonder if this isn't a way for Samsung to pressure Sony into some concession. It's good news for HD DVD if they release it on time and at a decent price though.

I can think of several 'defective' studios in both camps.
well combos is a great thing,but if dont sell them at a cheaper price then the lg forget it ,its not gonna work.the issue here is the middle man,toshba say last year they lost money on every a1 and xa1 sold ,but if you get rid of the middle man the price is even lower,and how much is it to make these players? if you ever heard of esteban the guy on hsn that sells his own guitars sells most of guitars for 279.00 with case dvd lessons,and a 10watt amp.these guitars alone would sell for 700.00 to 800.00 retail,but because thers no middle man,the guitars are that cheap!,i own one ,and its the best guitar i own,maybe tosh and sony should take a page out of his book. yesterday 4/14/07 in one hour he sold 3000 guitars!! so less is more

if you ever heard of esteban the guy on hsn that sells his own guitars sells most of guitars for 279.00 with case dvd lessons,and a 10watt amp.these guitars alone would sell for 700.00 to 800.00 retail,but because thers no middle man,the guitars are that cheap!,i own one ,and its the best guitar i own,maybe tosh and sony should take a page out of his book. yesterday

Do you actually play guitar? The Estebans are widely known among musicians as being the Yugo of guitars - the worst thing available on the market at any price. They would be a bad deal at $50. Given that you can get something decent for half the price at any Guitar Center..... :rolleyes:

I seriously hope that neither Toshiba nor Sony go down this path. For now, at least, they are shipping products that work well some of the time.....

Dunno if that was on purpose Chip, but it sure got a chuckle out of me! :D

du·el (dōō'əl, dyōō'-) Pronunciation Key
n.
1. A prearranged, formal combat between two persons, usually fought to settle a point of honor.
2. A struggle for domination between two contending persons, groups, or ideas.



du·al (dōō'əl, dyōō'-) Pronunciation Key
adj.
1. Composed of two usually like or complementary parts; double: dual controls for pilot and copilot; a car with dual exhaust pipes.
2. Having a double character or purpose: a belief in the dual nature of reality.


Oh, i new i made the error. Too lazy to fix it. :D

Oh, i new i made the error. Too lazy to fix it.

Laziness, huh? Ooookay.

I hate to add fuel to the fire, but so did the dvd forum. It was called AOD or what is now known as hddvd.

Sony is the one company more than all the others who screwed this up. Much like the failure of SACD which started out of all things as a 2 channel format, HELLO!!! the Bluray disc has had more than its share of problems. Inefficient ancient codecs, the vast majority of discs are lacking special features from the dvd, interactive features that won't play and specs for them that won't be finalized for 6 months, and ridiculously priced players! As a whole the format is starting to get its act together with AVC encodes, keeping the special features from the dvd, and using advanced audio codecs like DTS-HD. In my opinion though they are still easily in hddvd's dust and trying to catch up.

Ignorance is bliss! Looks like Blu-ray is leaving HDDVD in the dust in the marketplace.

Ignorance is bliss! Looks like Blu-ray is leaving HDDVD in the dust in the marketplace.
Could you be a bigger fanboy?? :p

Ignorance is bliss! Looks like Blu-ray is leaving HDDVD in the dust in the marketplace.

Umm....you haven't looked at sales number lately, have you?

www.dvdempire.com

or

www.thedvdwars.com

Look at the recent trend. BD had a spike when Casino Royale was released and HD DVD had no new releases - the trend is being reversed....April's number show HD DVD moving pack to parity.

Umm....you haven't looked at sales number lately, have you?

www.dvdempire.com

or

www.thedvdwars.com

Look at the recent trend. BD had a spike when Casino Royale was released and HD DVD had no new releases - the trend is being reversed....April's number show HD DVD moving pack to parity.

Show me Nielson/Videoscan point of sale numbers not some ranking graphs.

Umm....you haven't looked at sales number lately, have you?

www.dvdempire.com

or

www.thedvdwars.com

Look at the recent trend. BD had a spike when Casino Royale was released and HD DVD had no new releases - the trend is being reversed....April's number show HD DVD moving pack to parity.

Just checked. Seems HD DVD is top score on all points.

Show me Nielson/Videoscan point of sale numbers not some ranking graphs.

I expect they will follow.

Ignorance is bliss!\

Then you must be one of the happiest guys around.

Ignorance is bliss! you must be one of the happiest guys around. I'm thinking nirvana.

Show me Nielson/Videoscan point of sale numbers not some ranking graphs.

I don't get it. Since January everyone was touting the Blu-ray numbers against HD-DVD using these exact same graphs. Now all of the sudden they aren't credible?

10% above $500 would be great! ;)

I want to thank robena for first posting the information ahead of absolutely anyone else, to the disbelief of many.

Now it's a pity that it won't be coming out in July, but rather nearer Christmas. Silver lining - it will then probably have BD 1.1 Profile.
Yes - I agree with that assessment.

I think that Samsung would have released it earlier, but they now have to wait for the 1.1 spec to be finalized, to be safe.

The French article shows they clearly intended to launch in July (when they showed it to the French in January).

The 1.1 delay has delayed this player also, but Samsung clearly want it to meet spec.

Here's a thought...

What if (twilight zone music) ... Sony/BDA pushed the 1.1 spec deadline to November to give themselves additional time to get cheaper BD players in the market before the Universal players land?

What if there are two more Uni's on the way and Sony is worried that they'll hurt BD standalone player sales, since the Samsung Uni clearly has better features as a cheaper price than equivalent BD-only players?

Crossing my fingers it uses the HQV chip, Tru-HD, DTS HD master audio and analog audio outs, and I'm sold. Then I can move the PS3 to another room. Don't care what format wins, just want movies, and good ones at that.

Crossing my fingers it uses the HQV chip, Tru-HD, DTS HD master audio and analog audio outs, and I'm sold. Then I can move the PS3 to another room. Don't care what format wins, just want movies, and good ones at that.


yup!!If I can find it for $500 street, I'll be happy to remove that ugly George Foreman grill from my rack too :D

Crossing my fingers it uses the HQV chip, Tru-HD, DTS HD master audio and analog audio outs, and I'm sold. ....

That would be perfect.

The Matrix is set to be released in May on HD DVD. I think after that the disc sales will be a lot more meaningful. Personally I went with an HD DVD player first, because it was cheap - basically a through away player. I must admit though that I was sort of bummed to watch Casino Royal on standard DVD knowing it was available in Blu-Ray - although it looked great and sounded awesome anyhow. My denon 3910 does a wicked upconvert.

yup!!If I can find it for $500 street, I'll be happy to remove that ugly George Foreman grill from my rack too :D

George Foreman Grill! That's funny! Yeah, the 360 isn't the most beautiful machine around but I really dislike the look of the PS3.

I own an A2 and will get into BD when a reasonable price can be had (<$400 NEW and fully functional). I was eyeing this Sammy player thinking it could be a good choice if I'm willing to chuck out more money. But I think I'm better off holding out to see if someone releases a player with the same specs and the Reon chip. Hell, maybe even SACD or DVD-A.

Anyone have any comments on the DCDi chip for upconversion? I want something at least comparable to my A2 if I end up replacing it. I really don't want to give up anything for PQ or AQ for HD, SD, or CDs.

Sony will have the BDP-S300 for $599 this summer and it looks to be a good deal so far.

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=BDPS300&Dept=tvvideo&CategoryName=hav_bluraydiscsub

I understand the launch was for the holidays

I understand the launch was for the holidays

I hope that they will have it out in July because there is slightly conflicting information. Even though its in the same basic time frame.

One page says: Available July 2007 for $599.99.

Other page says: Available Summer 2007 for $599.99.

IMHO this player looks promising especially if it offers HDMI 1.3 but there is still no specifications available to this date. Will it offer internal decoding of Dolby True HD and DTS-HD Master Audio? Or will Sony take the route of offering HDMI 1.3 so a external source like a pre/pro or surround receiver can decode the new lossless formats.

This is what I am personally looking for is that the player sends the audio to and external processor to decode the audio (Dolby True HD & DTS-HD Master Audio). I am not a big believer that the player can do it all and that it can do it better than if they where to allow and external decoder to process the audio. It takes alot of processing power to handle the 1080p video as it is and to add lossless audio and keep prices down to a reasonable level is IMHO unrealistic. These players should be using processors with more MHz that what they are using if the player is going to actually do it all and not get sluggish. I want the best for my money not settle for a one source component can do it good enough or better than allowing any external decoding at all. Lets face it these players are not using the best components and they are not making a lot of profit per unit at this time. The results that these players have produced are very good but I believe it could be better. I am willing to pay more for a player as long as the player does what I need it to do and that is performs. I do not want to end up with a player that does not get the job done and that will limit ether video or audio performance.

Does anyone have a link to a site that has information on the Sony BDP-S300 ?? If the BDP-S300 is not going to do what I need it to do then my other option is to wait for another 2nd generation player to come out.

Crossing my fingers it uses the HQV chip, Tru-HD, DTS HD master audio and analog audio outs, and I'm sold. Then I can move the PS3 to another room. Don't care what format wins, just want movies, and good ones at that.

Yes indeed. If it had this chip plus decoding all the audio codecs (as the initial specs seemed to state) 1080p/24 for blu, supporing BD-J and HDi, this would be the top of the heap and a must buy. My two boxes are then gone to another part of the house.

Sony will have the BDP-S300 for $599 this summer and it looks to be a good deal so far.

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=BDPS300&Dept=tvvideo&CategoryName=hav_bluraydiscsub
I heard it doesn't decode all the advanced audio codecs, but they have omitted the specs from their site, with a "TBA" - sounds like it's not ready yet, too...

The Samsung would be a better choice, IMO.

To be honest with you I am not a big Samsung fan and I would rather have a Sony piece that a Samsung. And considering the Samsung was not all that great when there first player came out I plan to stay away from there 2nd gen player as well. IMHO Samsung is no different than LG and I do not equate those two brands as top tier gear. I know that there will be people here that love there players from those brands but they are not for me. I am not crazy about there performance and do not like the way they look.

As long as the BDP-S300 can get Dolby True HD and DTS-HD Master Audio to a HDMI 1.3 receiver I guess I don't care if it does not decode internally. ;)

To be honest with you I am not a big Samsung fan and I would rather have a Sony piece that a Samsung. And considering the Samsung was not all that great when there first player came out I plan to stay away from there 2nd gen player as well. IMHO Samsung is no different than LG and I do not equate those two brands as top tier gear. I know that there will be people here that love there players from those brands but they are not for me. I am not crazy about there performance and do not like the way they look.

As long as the BDP-S300 can get Dolby True HD and DTS-HD Master Audio to a HDMI 1.3 receiver I guess I don't care if it does not decode internally. ;)

I recall reading that the Sony BDP-S300 is based on a Samsung model in a similar way to the S1 being based on a Pioneer model ? Anyone confirm/refute ?

Dazzer

What is the reason that the BD-UP5000 will play Blu-ray in 1080p/24, but HD-DVD in 1080p/60? I can not find any information about that...

What is the reason that the BD-UP5000 will play Blu-ray in 1080p/24, but HD-DVD in 1080p/60? I can not find any information about that...

Hint: Read initial post. ;)

This is just to close to the deadline for spec changes for the format, I would not buy another BR stand-alone or combo player at this point until after all specs and features are actually completed and implemented into the format.

This is just to close to the deadline for spec changes for the format, I would not buy another BR stand-alone or combo player at this point until after all specs and features are actually completed and implemented into the format.

I agree with you.

Would like to find out if the window remains somewhat open so that a year from now we're hearing that some more specs are being added or changed.

Did anyone know a year ago they were going to do this??

Based on past new device history it should drop %50 in price within a year....AM I accurate on this?

Has there been any specs released for the Samsung Duo HD universal player yet. I hope it has the Realta or Reon HQV chip in it? If so, this will be the one for me :D !

Has there been any specs released for the Samsung Duo HD universal player yet. I hope it has the Realta or Reon HQV chip in it? If so, this will be the one for me :D !

It will not have either Reon nor Realta.

It will not have either Reon nor Realta.

Will the DVDi processor that it has chosen to use ('for cost reasons'--see pg 1) do as good a job at upconverting to 1080p? If not, I may just get the 1200 and forget the dual format.

Will the DVDi processor that it has chosen to use ('for cost reasons'--see pg 1) do as good a job at upconverting to 1080p? If not, I may just get the 1200 and forget the dual format.

The Reon is superior. It is better on paper and in real world performance. Too bad they chose to save $...

Since I would really like to get top performance for sddvd upconversion, the question: Get the Sammy 1200 or the Tosh XA2? They both apparantly do equally well (and excellently) in upconverting to 1080p, and also in hi def performance. So it seems to come down to which format has the best and most material. I really don't know; is there a clear answer? The XA2 seems to be ~$200 less than the 1200, at least when you factor in the free HD DVD's that are offered with the XA2. Is this because the 1200 is a better choice?

Since I would really like to get top performance for sddvd upconversion, the question: Get the Sammy 1200 or the Tosh XA2? They both apparantly do equally well (and excellently) in upconverting to 1080p, and also in hi def performance. So it seems to come down to which format has the best and most material. I really don't know; is there a clear answer? The XA2 seems to be ~$200 less than the 1200, at least when you factor in the free HD DVD's that are offered with the XA2. Is this because the 1200 is a better choice?

IMHO there is no clear answer right now and don't let anyone tell you there is a right or wrong answer. Both are outstanding units. BD players are simply more expensive to manufacture, nothing really more to read into the price delta.

The "which format is best and has the best & most material" question has been debated over for some time now. IMHO you should review the list of current and upcoming titles for HD & BD and decide which have more movies that suit your personal tastes and go with that.

Of course you could get both or wait for a universal player with Reon :p

I've seen the post on the 1st page of this thread about the 5000 not having the Reon VP chip, but I wonder if this is absolutely FIRM, or just preliminary info that is subject to change. This will really determine whether or not I wait for it or go ahead and get a Sammy 1200 or Tosh XA2.

any new news?