I was shopping for a decent supply of dvd-R blank media and I found a deal - I think - on some Taiyo Yden discs that are listed as 8X. I was told they would record and work in my Panasonic DMR ES25S. Is is preferable to look for and buy 16X over the 8X media? I looked for this answer but I didn't get a simple one. In any event, how will I be able to tell the difference in recording or playing these two types?
Thanks, John

what is the fastest media your recorder can handle? I would stick as close to that as possible. A 16x disc will burn just as fast as an 8x disc if your recorder can only record at 4x or 8x :)

In my experience, TY 8x discs are MUCH superior to the 16X media. There is a lot of iffy 16x media out there, whereas a lot of the 8x stuff is very well made. (especially stuff that you find now, since the "cheap" makers moved on to 16x a while ago) If nothing else, 8x allows for a little more burning tolerance, especially on burners that aren't optimized for 16x media, like most set top recorders.

I'd go for the 8x media. (In fact, I just bought 200 TYG02 8x discs from Supermediastore for my Toshibas)

A lot of Taiyo Yuden Media that is rated at 8x will burn at 16x in capable computer DVD burners. In most home "rack unit" burners 8x will be as fast or faster than the unit can burn anyway.

I'd personally be a bit hesitant to overspeed media... I've never understood why people burn 8x media at 16x, especially when it seems like they then complain "gee, the disc doesn't work too well, this media sucks!!".

There's a reason it's rated at 8x. Your burner may be able to go faster, but really, what's 2-3 minutes here or there? The difference is nowhere near as big as 1x to 2x.

Is is preferable to look for and buy 16X over the 8X media? I looked for this answer but I didn't get a simple one.There are no simple answers in life, my friend... ;)

My personal experience with my burner is that the 8X media gives much better results. But there are a lot of factors in DVD burning, and the "quality" of the burns you get can vary quite a bit. The media you use, the model of burner you have, the firmware that it's using, and sometimes it seems even the phase of the moon all make a difference. Fortunately, the built-in ECC (Error Correction Codes) automatically correct all but the most severe errors. Unfortunately, this means that a very bad burn can look perfect when you play it back.

The only way to know for sure if your burns are good or not is to test them using a PC with a drive and software capable of reporting the raw (before correction) error rates. Depending on which burner you have, 16X or 8X media may give better results.

So there's no way for any of us to say whether the 8X or 16X media will work better in YOUR burner with YOUR burner's firmware. Without an actual test of your burns, you're flying blind.

JM, I am with you on this for the most part. I burn 95% of my DVDs at 8x regardless of 8x or 16x Certification. I am actually leaning toward the idea that 16x is better media overall (Generally[/U] only the better media within a group can acheive 16x) when burned at 8x[U]. I think the Quality 16x media out there is just fine. I also think the reason some people get poor results with it is due to trying to burn it at 16x with a Computer or Firmware or Burner that really isn't up to the chore.

The reason I stated that lots of Yuden 8x will burn at 16x is in support of my lean that 16x Yuden Media isn't really the problem, but the speed people burn it at can be.

I have also noticed with Verbatim DVD-R, I get essentially identical results comparing 8x and 16x when both are burned at 8x. I hope this helps clarify things.

The simplest answer for me is this.... Buy quality media and don't worry about 8x or 16x. :D

I rarely end up burning media at its rated speed (I go a notch or two under speed), so you're definitely on to something with 16x media being better at 8x than 8x media at 8x. (confusing much? :) ) I've been starting to experiment with burning high quality 16x media at 12x and have been very happy with the results, as well-- at least on my LGs, I am seeing better 12x burns than 8x burns (on 16x media). With both being better than 16x burns.

That said, I see MUCH better burns on good quality TYG02 (TY 8x) media at 8x, than I see even on TYG03 (TY 16x) at 8x. I don't think TY's 16x media is "bad", I just don't think it's anywhere near the EXCELLENT (i.e., in a different league than pretty much anyone) 4x and 8x media that preceded it. My experience is TYG03 is a step below CMC-made Verbatim 16X media. (well, at least the MAPA/PAPA serial codes; MAP6/PAP6 media is a different story and horrendous, but now we're talking sub-categories of an already obscure topic...)

And I totally agree about buying good media. It's really not worth saving pennies per disc when the disc quits working 3-6 months later, is it? (I have a spindle of JVC discs I bought at Big Lots, both to try out and because I thought maybe it was MCC [it wasn't-- I think it was MJC MV or something] as it was made in Malaysia-- I burned a bunch of them, including some stuff for friends, got GREAT initial results, and am seeing a 50-75% failure rate [i.e., not even recognized as DVDs with data] less than a year later... really sucks!)

I am using this media in the Panasonic dvd recorder and I could not find a reference to 8X vs 16X in the manual or on their web site FAQ list. Nothing specific to that unless I missed something. To my knowledge, (limited) there is no way to adjust the burning rate on the DVD recorder. I ordered the 8X media from Super Media store because I have had good luck with Taiyo Yuden CD's.

Added : This is what I read on the specs on the recorder: For General Ver. 2.0
For General Ver. 2.0/4X-speed DVD-R Revision 1.0
For General Ver. 2.x/8X-speed DVD-R Revision 3.0
For General Ver. 2.x/16X-speed DVD-R Revision 6.0

I really don't know what all this means, not that I need to.

sounds like you made a good choice. You may (not sure of your model) need a firmware update to burn the 8x. I would bet that the fastest it will burn (high speed dub) is 4x.

I have already successfully burned 12 DVD's that were labeled 16X.

wow

i got a bad batch of the verbatim dvd-r 100 pack spindle.

gonna order some of the premium TY 8X from supermedia now.

wow

i got a bad batch of the verbatim dvd-r 100 pack spindle.

gonna order some of the premium TY 8X from supermedia now.

Out of curiousity, does the serial code stamped on the inner clear part of the plastic hub, start with "MAPA", "MAP6", or something else entirely?

i got a bad batch of the verbatim dvd-r 100 pack spindle.
Verbatim has traditionally been one of the most reliable sources. If they really are Verbatim, and they really are bad, it is a very bad sign for the future.

I have had very good results with Verbatium 16X media in both DVD+R and DVD-R format. DVD+R for my PC burns and DVD-R for Pioneer DVD recorder burns, as it seems to prefer( :confused:) the DVD-R SL format. Oddly, it likes DVD+R DL which works well.

I (like many others) usually burn em at 8X rather than higher speeds and run a CD-speed burn quality check on all my PC burns..

Verbatium is available in 100 pack ink jet printables at Sams club for reasonable price ( $.33-.39 each). It's not worth my time to spend less for iffy media.

On VERY rare occasion have gotten a batch of Verbatiums with a marginal DVD on the top of the cakebox.

PS.. Verbatium DVD+R DL is the ONLY recommended DVD dual layer media. It works.

ymmv ;)

I have the E80H and have been using TDK DVD-R 8X for about a year since 4X is no longer available. I plan to try 16X just to see how it works (I know it is not any faster). I hope 16X is not a problem because it is getting harder to find 8X in the stores.

Verbatium is available in 100 pack ink jet printables at Sams club for reasonable price ( $.33-.39 each). It's not worth my time to spend less for iffy media.

With high prices like these, I'm assuming that is dual layer? Yes? (I'm used to paying .22-.28 for single layer inkjet printable)

With high prices like these, I'm assuming that is dual layer? Yes? (I'm used to paying .22-.28 for single layer inkjet printable)

That would be a no. You find any Verbatim Dual Layer DVD+R for .33 to.39 each, you let me know ASAP....ok? :)

People are complaining about $0.39 per disk?! Does anyone remember what S-VHS tapes used to cost? I used to buy ST-160s by the case. DVD-Rs are much less expensive, and have vastly improved picture.

People are complaining about $0.39 per disk?! Does anyone remember what S-VHS tapes used to cost?Forget about S-VHS tapes, I remember when a RCA VK250 standard 2-hour VHS cassette cost $29.95... each! :eek:

And that $29.95 from more than 25 years back would be well over $100 in today's money... :eek: :eek: :eek:

Of course I always managed to get them on sale for only $24.95 each... :p

People are complaining about $0.39 per disk?! Does anyone remember what S-VHS tapes used to cost? I used to buy ST-160s by the case. DVD-Rs are much less expensive, and have vastly improved picture.

Sorry, I guess I'm used to buying the "cheap" Ridata printable discs for about $.25-.28 cents each :D Oh, and those S-VHS could be recorded more than once....granted they were still more expensive (without inflation) than current -RW discs.

Now that I ( with help from this forum ) have overcome my "FR" problems :rolleyes: you have me wondering about the media I am using.
You talk about copying at different speeds.How do you control the speed of copying?
The manual for my EH75 say up to 16X. That sounds like if I use 16X media it should copy that fast. Why would I want to use 4X or 8X?
My first batch of DVDs is Maxell 16X. I figured with all the years of Maxell ST-160 and good results I would stick with them. Am I spending extra money for something I don't need? Are they all made by the same 1 or 2 companies?They were only 26 cents each but they are not the printable ones. I guess that will be my next step.
And what is the reason for choosing -R or +R ? It seems like what I have read -R is the most compatible with other machines, is that true? I went with -R for that reason. When would I want to use +R ?

Out of curiousity, does the serial code stamped on the inner clear part of the plastic hub, start with "MAPA", "MAP6", or something else entirely?
no, it is a number. starts with a 6125?? it seems, my eyes are not what they used to be and even with a magnifying glass it was so hard to make it out.
on the nero cd dvd speed test it showed Manf. > verbatim and a MIC code of
MCC 03RG20.
used about 80, and about 20 bad not writeable, some that write then trouble with playback, few others that i chekced and showed problems but seem to play back ok so far.....

i wrote verbatim early last week and still no response. i understand verbatim has a good rep and i probably just got ahold of a bad batch.

Now that I ( with help from this forum ) have overcome my "FR" problems :rolleyes: you have me wondering about the media I am using.
You talk about copying at different speeds.How do you control the speed of copying?
The manual for my EH75 say up to 16X. That sounds like if I use 16X media it should copy that fast. Why would I want to use 4X or 8X?
My first batch of DVDs is Maxell 16X. I figured with all the years of Maxell ST-160 and good results I would stick with them. Am I spending extra money for something I don't need? Are they all made by the same 1 or 2 companies?They were only 26 cents each but they are not the printable ones. I guess that will be my next step.
And what is the reason for choosing -R or +R ? It seems like what I have read -R is the most compatible with other machines, is that true? I went with -R for that reason. When would I want to use +R ?


The manual is telling you that you can use discs rated up to 16x record speed. The record speed on most Rack Unit Recorders(like yours) is controlled by the machine. My Philips DVDR 3455/37 records at 4x, but I can use 4x, 8x and 16x discs all without problems. All record at 4x. My Sylvania DVDR200F records all -R at 1x, but is compatible with all discs up to 16x.

I am not a fan of Maxell's DVD Media. Some I have purchased were mfg. by Ritek with the RitekG05 media code that is known to have higher failure rates more quickly than normal.

Most people here agree that Taiyo Yuden Premium DVD Media, whether 8x or 16x is good stuff. Most seem to prefer the 8x. A high percentage of people also like Verbatim, but there are reports of a "bad batch" of verbatim 16x +/-Rs that has some folks swearing off of them. I can still get Verbatim 8x from Sam's Club, and will continue to use them. I have had no problem from Verbatim 16x DVD blanks to date, but it ain't over yet either. I have 2-3 50 spindles of 16x -R still unopened.

no, it is a number. starts with a 6125?? it seems, my eyes are not what they used to be and even with a magnifying glass it was so hard to make it out.
on the nero cd dvd speed test it showed Manf. > verbatim and a MIC code of
MCC 03RG20.
used about 80, and about 20 bad not writeable, some that write then trouble with playback, few others that i chekced and showed problems but seem to play back ok so far.....

i wrote verbatim early last week and still no response. i understand verbatim has a good rep and i probably just got ahold of a bad batch.

Hrm... not sure, probably made by Prodisc in that case, but hard to tell. What is the country of manufacture, according to the label?

I am not a fan of Maxell's DVD Media. Some I have purchased were mfg. by Ritek with the RitekG05 media code that is known to have higher failure rates more quickly than normal.I've actually had very good results with Maxell's RITEKG05. I scan all the discs I make on my computer to check the burn quality, and the RITEKG05 discs burned on my Pioneer 633 were giving me better burns than TYG02s (which had a strange PIE spike in the first 100MB of the burn).

I've been periodically scanning every burned disk, and so far, 1-1/2 years after the initial burns, there's been no significant degradation in any of my RITEKG05 discs.

The 16X RITEKF1's are a different story, though, with my Pioneer 633 burner they're pretty sad. They still produce perfectly playable burns, but the error rates are 10-20X higher than with the RITEKG05's. But then the other 16X media I've tried haven't worked well either.

I recently bought some Verbatim DVD+R DL (not sure on the speed as I don't have them here with me). I've made one recording, but I had to format the disc first on my EH75V--it kept telling me the disc was unformatted. Was that the correct thing to do? Or should I have returned them? The recording looks good, even though it took forever, heh (about 48 min. for 4 hours of SP mode, HS dub).

As for checking the errors, would I need a PC DVD burner, or will the software work with my DVD-ROM drive? Thanks!

As for checking the errors, would I need a PC DVD burner, or will the software work with my DVD-ROM drive? Thanks!There's only certain drives that can report the raw error rates, and I suspect they're all burners. I couldn't give you a list of all of the drives that can do this, but I know that the Plextor burners can.

There's only certain drives that can report the raw error rates, and I suspect they're all burners. I couldn't give you a list of all of the drives that can do this, but I know that the Plextor burners can.

Thanks, Sean! I can look up the drives when I get ready to upgrade my computer.

A high percentage of people also like Verbatim, but there are reports of a "bad batch" of verbatim 16x +/-Rs that has some folks swearing off of them. I can still get Verbatim 8x from Sam's Club, and will continue to use them. I have had no problem from Verbatim 16x DVD blanks to date, but it ain't over yet either. I have 2-3 50 spindles of 16x -R still unopened.I got a bad batch of those 8x Verbatim "movie reel" blanks from BB awhile back. About 1/3 of them were rejected.

But I bought the regular-style 8x ones from Sam's recently, and they've been perfect.

I've actually had very good results with Maxell's RITEKG05. I scan all the discs I make on my computer to check the burn quality, and the RITEKG05 discs burned on my Pioneer 633 were giving me better burns than TYG02s (which had a strange PIE spike in the first 100MB of the burn).

The 16X RITEKF1's are a different story, though, with my Pioneer 633 burner they're pretty sad. They still produce perfectly playable burns, but the error rates are 10-20X higher than with the RITEKG05's. But then the other 16X media I've tried haven't worked well either.

Sean, like so many things I think it may come down to batches/lots of media and what burners are used. My Maxell G05s look pretty bad. Worse than anything other than my RitekF1 (these were given to me). The RitekF1 16x DVD-R is the worst media I have ever seen. It refuses to burn at all on my NEC ND3500AG (the ONLY media this burner has ever balked at), and though it will burn in my Lite-ON SHM-165P6SX at 8x, and in my Sylvania and Philips DVDR 3455, the error rates are horrendous. They will playback - for now. ;)

Verbatim has traditionally been one of the most reliable sources. If they really are Verbatim, and they really are bad, it is a very bad sign for the future.
Verbatim media started having quality problems about a year ago.
One batch might be great, then the next batch lousy.
For that reason I (and lots of others in another forum)
switched to TY.

TY has been in the top 3 media brands since CDRs came out. They will consistently overburn, burn faster than rated and generally outlast most other brands. IMP TY is the only way to go for things that you want to last.

I usually keep TY and a lesser sale brand on hand for burning cds for the car, work....etc.

I always used Maxells and Verbatims for the past couple years. I used their printables because of my Canon's cd/dvd print capability. Start having trouble with the Maxell printables from Walmart. Found out they are CMC media code, not MXL. CMC is junk. Went to Sam's and noticed their Verbatims did not say DataLife Plus. Found out these were also CMC. Ordered Verbatim DataLife Plus on-line, 19.95/50, no tax and free shipping which is .40 each, which is not bad. These are MCC which is Mitsubishi Chemical Co., very good media (8X). Stick to DataLife Plus or Ty. Anyone know of reasonable DL printable, the best I can find are around 2.50 each from Verbatim. Don't want to try Ridata. Also any hub-printable DL? The Verbatim and Ridata are not hub-printable.

Sean, like so many things I think it may come down to batches/lots of media and what burners are used.Absolutely, that's why I'm continually recommending to people that they should actually test at least a few burns from each spindle on a computer to see how good the quality is.

The first two spindles of TY media I bought produced perfectly playable discs, but they had a very high error spike in the first 100MB. But the interesting thing was that this only occurred when there were burned in "normal" HDD->DVD high speed copy mode in my Pioneer 633 recorder - when I burned discs from the same spindle in "backup" mode (which writes one track per disc instead of one track per title) the resulting burns were very good.

And some brand names (Maxell among them) switch from one disc manufacturer to another with no obvious difference in the packaging or discs. So the good results you got last month may have nothing to do with the results you're getting from the new discs you bought last week.

So there are lots and lots of more factors which can affect burn quality. If you're concerned about the longevity of your recordings then it makes sense to test your burns. It's dangerous to assume that just because one particular brand worked good once it will continue to do so. And since everyone's got different burners and different firmware, it's even more dangerous to go on other people's recommendations without confirming them for yourself. It's certainly a good idea to pay attention when lots of folks give the same recommendations, but always remember: "Your Mileage May Vary!"

Well said, Sean! :)

Hrm... not sure, probably made by Prodisc in that case, but hard to tell. What is the country of manufacture, according to the label?
sorry no label as i threw it away.