Hi guys

Im a bit new to this, so apologies if Im asking something dumb. Ive done a bit of searching around here and cant find an answer to my question, and am hoping one of you guys might be able to help me out.

Ive just picked up a cheap ex-demo NEC 50XM4. It's meant to have done 2 exhibitions, and thats it.

Ok, well, the set is lovely. However, I got it yesterday and tested it with my laptop as a monitor, and after having windows on screen for only 10 minutes or so, when the screen blanker kicks in, I can see the start bar still sat there.

From reading around, it sounds like screen retention isnt something I need to worry about - but surely it shouldnt be happening this quickly??

The shop are happy to refund me my money, but before I do that I just wondered if there was something that could perhaps be causing this that I could resolve?

Any help before I send it back would be great.

Thanks all.

Don't let anyone kid you... IR w/PDPs is possible w/overuse of static images & black bars. But if caught early... IR is easily reversed. NEC PDPs have a reputation for being susceptible to IR. The more hours of operation your PDP has the lower the incidence and severity of IR. The basic rule of thumb is to display no black bars or static images during the first 100 hours of operation... for no more than 15% of the time during the next 900 and after 1000 hours you can let her rip.

My PDP has ~2000 hours of operation and I can generate IR at will. I don't recommend using a PDP as a computer monitor, LCDs are much better for that, and IMO a good approach to use is to follow content displayed w/black bars by 2x that number of hours with full screen content.

But from chatting to people, it sounds as if IR shouldnt happen within 10 minutes ??
Or have I been misinformed?

Also, I will be using it as a joing tv and monitor for the rest of the year, I have little option there.

dubster, I can tell you from experience, I have the 50XM5 which is the next year model from the one you have, and it is an IR nightmare. So much so that I moved it to the bedroom and bought a Pioneer 6070 for the livingroom. There was no way I could game or use the NEC for a computer monitor. I had a 55" hitachi before the NEC, and never got IR with it as a computer display. I don't know if all NEC's are like that, or if I had bad luck, but the Hitachi and this Pioneer are great for computer use and gaming. The Pioneer still gets some IR, but noting noticable from the viewing area, and it goes away within minutes of using it with HD material.

I am a proud owner of a 50XM4. I followed the break-in guidelines for the first 100 hours and over two years later the susceptibility to IR has remained the same, no better no worse. The IR normally disipates rather quickly with full screen content, however, if the IR is more pronounced due to a letterboxed movie, I find that running the all white screen for a few minutes clears the IR completey. I view the IR as a minor annoyance and in no way diminishes the positives of this display, i.e. superb picture quality, top-notch scaling, handling of SD content and superb "Statdium" stretch mode.

Is the start bar solid or is it a ghost image?

I'm sure it's just a ghost of an image Jungle Monkey, but it's probably pretty well defined. It would be on mine anyways, and I've got thousands of hours on mine. The IR does fade pretty quickly on mine now-a-days, but it's a lot worse than any other panel I've owned.

Don't let anyone kid you... IR w/PDPs is possible w/overuse of static images & black bars. But if caught early... IR is easily reversed. NEC PDPs have a reputation for being susceptible to IR. The more hours of operation your PDP has the lower the incidence and severity of IR. The basic rule of thumb is to display no black bars or static images during the first 100 hours of operation... for no more than 15% of the time during the next 900 and after 1000 hours you can let her rip.

My PDP has ~2000 hours of operation and I can generate IR at will. I don't recommend using a PDP as a computer monitor, LCDs are much better for that, and IMO a good approach to use is to follow content displayed w/black bars by 2x that number of hours with full screen content.

Agreed and well put..... and Im shocked that this happens on an NEC set, I though they were one of the top units out there? Hmmmm... :confused:

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Perhaps Im a little jumpy having never owned a plasma before.
Ive picked up an upscaling DVD player to give it a whirl with tonight, to see how I feel about it.

Its only going to be used as a monitor until the end of this year, after that its just going to revert to being a tv. If I feel the dvd/tv playback on it is fine then I will keep it, otherwise I'll take the refund option.

Seems a shame though as I got it for a great price and it has pretty little use on it.

Well, ive decided to keep it as they knocked some more money off it.

The screen retention thing seems a right mare, and the picture when watching normal tv is really "digital" looking, jagged lines etc.

Not having a lot of joy finding any resources for this set on the net anywhere. If anyone can point me anywhere Id be really grateful.

Cheers all.

dubster, the owners' thread up at the top of the thread list as a "sticky" is probably the best resource for NEC's on the internet. If you have any questions about it, post in there, and someone will probably have an answer for you.

Cheers fella. Im doing my best to not rely on other atm, searching around in vain !

dubster, if you PM me your email address I can send you a 50XM4 user manual pdf file.

dubster, if you PM me your email address I can send you a 50XM4 user manual pdf file.

Thanks CorrysD

I actually downloaded it from the NEC site when I first bought the set.
Unfortunately it doesnt seem to explain why I might be getting things stuck on screen so quick.

Im starting to think it may just be the nature of plasma screens.

Thanks for the offer anyways.
:)

Please make sure you guys are not running your NEC in torch mode.

Early on they are a bit touchy and I never used mine as a PC monitor or for games. I have the 50XM3 that must be 4 years old now. I need to check the hours on it, but it almost never get IR anymore (maybe after a 3 hour DVD with top an bottom bars) and even if it does its gone in less than 30 seconds with any full screen video.

These panels also have a full white screen function that you can have come on in the middle of the night several times a week to to help reduce its chance of IR.

I don't know about the newer PDP's but when I got mine I was willing to be careful how I use it in exchange for the superior PQ it had over all the other plasma's I demo-ed.

Thanks for the advice Barry.

What is torch mode and wow do I check the hours on it ?

Ive been manually using the white function to get rid of IR every now n then, but obviously that doesnt help me when Im using the unit.

Im thinking I will not use it as a monitor now as everyone seems to be telling me to stay away from that. Its a shame, Ive been really enjoying the whole split screen monitor and tv option, but if its gonna make a difference to the life/quality of the unit then I will just have to go without.

The IR seems to only come from the onscreen menus or PC usage as far as I can tell, if Im just watching TV's or DVDs then it doesnt happen - DVD menus do it of course though.

Torch mode is when the picture settings (Brightness, Contrast, etc) are set very high so the displays stand out in the retail show rooms. Out of the box, the NECs are set right in the middle. To find out the hours of usage you need to access the service menu by:

The key sequence is entered from the remote while the screen is active. Press the following keys in sequence:
- Off Timer
- Exit
- Mute
- Off Timer

The 'Service Menu' will overlay the active picture.
...
Repeat the same sequence (OffTimer, Exit, Mute, OffTimer) to exit."

Uhh maybe stupid question you said it was used in 2 Exhibitions... are you sure the Windows taskbar IR was not already there when you bought it? Just asking.

I own an NEC 50XR5 and I get a little IR , but I use may favorite IR cleaner... 5 Minutes or so of Discovery HD cleans up pretty much all my IR even after watching several hours or "letterbox" movies. the Ghosting can happen fairly quickly, but it has been my experience that it disappears pretty quickly too...unscientifically the longer the static image was displayed...the longer to get rid of it...but I have never had any IR that didn't clean up with a max of 10 min of Disc HD. ... other have had issues though... Its just something I am aware of...but not much more than that...I was really paranoid when I first got my set and untill I racked up a more than 100 hours...

Hmm, well, Id say the 2 exhibitions thing COULD be accurate, but unlikely, since Ive just discovered it has 650 hours on it !! (thanks for the info on service menu there mate!)

The start bar was just an example. Its not there all the time.

What I was getting at is that if the start bar is on screen for a while, then it will stick there, or rather a ghost will.

As will any window I leave in place for a few minutes.

Ah well, I think I just accept thats the way it will be.

Dubster, Consider setting the START and task bar to auto hide so its only on the screen when you mouse over the area. Set your screen saver on the PC to come on after 5 minutes and make sure its not a static one.

Check your contrast to make sure its set below the mid mark.

Dub, Im not sure but if your TV was a floor model and had already clocked up some hours, then i would imagine this might actually encourage image retention. Usually stores will have their sets set at Torch Mode with all the settings cranked to the max when in theory (from what is said here and other forums) it is recomended to break in a set with settings configured to below halfway for the initial 200 hours or so, apparently to allow the phosphors to age evenly

I too purchased an ex demo plasma and have noticed some realy strong image retention after the screen menu has been displayed (even for a moment) but later fades...However my set has clocked up more than a few hours 1050 to be exact also my wife watched the QVC shop channel for 30 minutes or so earlier and i can still see faint traces of the phone num, item num ect over 3 hours later tho i can realy only notice it when on a darkened screen .ie. no video source. Is this your experience, how i the IR showing up with normal tv viewing? But hey man i dont want to give you all negatives just maybe keep in mind those pesky little logos and chasers on some channels tho all models are different and am sure your tv will be perfect for you...ENJOY

Yes, that sounds about the same as me.
Im guessing that must be the problem then, the set was abused early.

I dunno, the more I use it, the less I like it.

Ive bought an upscaling dvd player/tv tuner. Whenever I watch tv on it, you can see bands of colour instead of smooth shading, like a badly compressed jpeg or something!

Bah!

What inputs are you using? I have found that the SD and HD channels look the best using the DVI input. I have an HD DirecTiVo connected via an HDMI/DVI cable.

Yeh, Im using the DVI input to get my upscaled pictures.