Flags of Our Fathers (Two-Disc Special Edition) [Blu-ray] [Blu-ray]
By: Ryan Phillippe (Actor), et al
$27.95

Letters from Iwo Jima [Blu-ray] [Blu-ray]
By: Tsuyoshi Ihara (Actor), et al
$23.95

Item(s) Subtotal: $51.90
Shipping & Handling: $0.00
Promotional Certificate: $-5.19
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Total Before Tax: $46.71
Estimated Tax: $0.00
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Grand Total: $46.71

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000O77QD8/

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000O77RLE/

Is the 2nd disc on Flags in HD as well? Anyone know?

Is the 2nd disc on Flags in HD as well? Anyone know?

I'm actually more concerned about lossless/high bitrate audio. It would be a real shame that an epic war movie like this would not receive the lossless audio treatment.

I wonder when will Paramount/Dreamworks will stop doing this to their releases... :mad:

I know I'll probably get flamed for this, but while both versions (BD and HD DVD) of letters are identical but with the HD DVD version being a combo and the BD version $5 cheaper, it may be a better choice, the BD version of Flags is Mpeg while the HD DVD version is VC-1. Based on most comparisons, the HD DVD version of Flags may be the better proposition.

I know I'll probably get flamed for this, but while both versions (BD and HD DVD) of letters are identical but with the HD DVD version being a combo and the BD version $5 cheaper, it may be a better choice, the BD version of Flags is Mpeg while the HD DVD version is VC-1. Based on most comparisons, the HD DVD version of Flags may be the better proposition.

I actually thought about that, based on some recent comparisons between Blu-ray and HD-DVD versions of MI: III (I was VERY surprised). Not to mention 1.5 mbps Dolby Digital +....

Ah the confusion...when will it CEASE!!??!?

isnt that just the normal 10% hd discount? if so, i dont understand the post.

isnt that just the normal 10% hd discount? if so, i dont understand the post.

Ditto. what's the big deal?

I'm actually more concerned about lossless/high bitrate audio. It would be a real shame that an epic war movie like this would not receive the lossless audio treatment.

I wonder when will Paramount/Dreamworks will stop doing this to their releases... :mad:

Well paramount waited 5-6 years before releasing a dvd with DTS, so that pretty mutch sums it up. so i would not hold my breath...

I know I'll probably get flamed for this, but while both versions (BD and HD DVD) of letters are identical but with the HD DVD version being a combo and the BD version $5 cheaper, it may be a better choice, the BD version of Flags is Mpeg while the HD DVD version is VC-1. Based on most comparisons, the HD DVD version of Flags may be the better proposition.Based on most comparisons, they look virtually identical.

I guess I'll be gettting Letters on BD. Both formats are supposed to have a trueHD track, so as long as that stays true and the price is lower for the BD version, I'll go ahead and order it.
Although I'll still be getting Flags on HD DVD since they have the same audio specs. I don't think the MPEG2 version will be any different from the VC1 version since the MPEG2 is on a BD50 disc. So there is plenty of space to have an identical transfer.

Although I'll still be getting Flags on HD DVD since they have the same audio specs.

I think the HD-DVD gets 1.5 mbps DD+, while the Blu-ray is stuck with 640k DD 5.1, like they did with Babel and other releases.

Why can't BD do DD+? is it a liscensing thing or codec thing. And what's the difference between 1.5mbs and 640kbs?

And what does PCM run at?

Last question on Superman the BD has the 640dd and the HDD has TrueHD. Is the sound that different? Is 640dd supposed to be like a less compressed DD?

That today is the first day it was available for pre order with the discount. Many people wait until the discount kicks in before ordering. I was just giving everyone a heads up.

You can always email them for the discount if you don't get it. :)

Yea, its pretty great how this title came up with the promotion applied instantly. Also, Rescue Me: Season 3 went up today with the promo applied already, which is great as well.

Oh crap, I thought this was going to be a discount for buying them both together in addition to the usual 10% discount. :(

Why can't BD do DD+? is it a liscensing thing or codec thing. And what's the difference between 1.5mbs and 640kbs?

And what does PCM run at?

Last question on Superman the BD has the 640dd and the HDD has TrueHD. Is the sound that different? Is 640dd supposed to be like a less compressed DD?

DD+ is an optionally supported codec for Blu-ray players. This means that content producers can't count on it being supported by every BD player. (This is similar to the way DTS was optionally supported in DVD). When and if player manufacturers, due to competition, start supporting DD+ then you'll see content producers including DD+ tracks.

PCM's bandwidth requirements are determined by number of channels/sampling rate/bit-depth of the audio track. Blu-ray allocates up to 8 mbps for audio bandwidth.

DD at 640 kbps is the same codec (AC-3) that has been used for years, but at a higher bitrate. The difference between Dolby TrueHD (which is identical to the PCM source) and DD 640 is a subjective determination based on a lot of different factors (original quality of the audio, D/A conveters, HT equipment, quality of your speakers, quality of your ears, etc.)

Dolby TrueHD is the original audio. DD is a facsimile of this audio. How "good" this facsimile audio is something only you can determine. There is one thing for certain: the facsimile, by definition, cannot be "better" than the original.

Why can't BD do DD+? is it a liscensing thing or codec thing. And what's the difference between 1.5mbs and 640kbs?

And what does PCM run at?

Last question on Superman the BD has the 640dd and the HDD has TrueHD. Is the sound that different? Is 640dd supposed to be like a less compressed DD?


The standard on DVD was a Dolby Digital 448 kpbs, which you find on a vast majority of movies.

The other standard on DVD was DTS, typically in the 768 kpbs range.

Dolby claims that they are more efficient at audio compression. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. Personally, I haven't heard a DTS track that sounds worse than its DD counterpart.

Due to space constraints, and the limitations set back in 1997, the codecs were limited to the bitrate above. DD can be encoded at 640 kbps (which should sound better than the 448 kpbs stuff on DVDs), and DTS at 1.5 mbps. This is still compressed audio, but in theory better compressed audio. Given the space on BD/HDDVD, they have the ability to use these tracks.

The advantage of these tracks is that they can be used on older receivers via digital optical/coax ports. However, this is more of an 'evolution' than a 'revolution' they're still compressed, and thus technically inferior to the original. Both Dolby and DTS claim they're 'indistuinguishable' to the original; you can be the judge of that.

PCM and TrueHD are higher quality, lossless tracks that are identical to the original. However, they take up much more space and cannot be transmitted over optical. You need an HDMI connection and a newer receiver.

So, in your example, you know the HDD might sound better than the BD, and it certainly won't sound worse.

Oh crap, I thought this was going to be a discount for buying them both together in addition to the usual 10% discount. :(
Me too

Thanks for the heads up! Just ordered... :)

what is the amazon promo code again?

I believe it was HDDISC10. If you didn't get in on it before some date in January, it's too late.

I think the HD-DVD gets 1.5 mbps DD+, while the Blu-ray is stuck with 640k DD 5.1, like they did with Babel and other releases.

Is that true? I thought HiDef Digest listed them as having the same audio? If the HD DVD does have better audio then I'll pay the extra to get the HD DVD.

I believe Paramount does 768kbps for HD DVD and 640kbps for Blu-ray. What that poster was talking about would be Universal who does 1.5Mbps.


The maximum bit rate supported by the Dolby Digital AC-3 codec is 640 kbps. This is not a format limitation; it's a codec limitation. (According to Dolby white papers)

Point being? Paramount could put the DD+ track on their Blu-ray releases just as easily as they do their HD DVD releases.


The point being that DD+ is a optionally supported codec in Blu-ray, but mandatory supported codec in HD-DVD. Most current Blu-ray players don't support DD+, so it would cause more confusion than benefit for the studios. That's why you get Dolby Digital on Blu-ray instead of DD+. (BD players would just play the core AC-3 stream of a DD+ stream anyway)

DD+ streams are not the same on Blu-ray and HD-DVD. Blu-ray DD+ streams require an extension stream and core AC-3 stream. So studios cannot use the same encode across the two formats.

It would be better to support Dolby TrueHD (lossless) on Blu-ray since that seems to be better supported at the moment and is of higher fidelity anyway. Or ideally PCM if there's enough room/bandwidth. And, in fact, that is direction that studios are moving. The only practical reason to used DD+ on Blu-ray is if you have more than 5.1 channels and can't do lossless.

It would be better to support Dolby TrueHD (lossless) on Blu-ray since that seems to be better supported at the moment and is of higher fidelity anyway. Or ideally PCM if there's enough room/bandwidth. And, in fact, that is direction that studios are moving. The only practical reason to used DD+ on Blu-ray is if you have more than 5.1 channels and can't do lossless.

Mandatory or not, why not include lossless tracks and skip DD+ altogether? Dolby TrueHD on HD-DVD, and if for some reason they can't include that either with Blu-ray, provide us with PCM.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Paramount simply has no excuse for how they're treating audio with their releases.

My biggest fear is that recent movies like the Shooter (Mark Whalberg) and upcoming ones like Shrek the third will also suffer the same fate as current Paramount/Dreamworks releases...

Mandatory or not, why not include lossless tracks and skip DD+ altogether?


I believe that's what I said in my post.

I actually thought about that, based on some recent comparisons between Blu-ray and HD-DVD versions of MI: III (I was VERY surprised). Not to mention 1.5 mbps Dolby Digital +....

Ah the confusion...when will it CEASE!!??!?


that's the players, not the master. put a mi3 into a panasonic or samsung br player and it gets the artifacts just like the hd dvd version. so if you have a sony or pioneer then yes the br version is superior. otherwise it is the same.