You heard it here first. :) Heres the info I have so far:

No exact release date yet but look for it around July. Sony had originally planned to make it a holiday release with new content. But they couldn't create the content they wanted so the release date got pushed up.

It will be a BD50 with the following specs:

Video: AVC :D
Audio: 16bit PCM and TrueHD (either 20bit or 24bit, not confirmed yet)

An exchange program is still planned for current owners.

You heard it here first. :) Heres the info I have so far:

No exact release date yet but look for it around July. Sony had originally planned to make it a holiday release with new content. But they couldn't create the content they wanted so the release date got pushed up.

It will be a BD50 with the following specs:

Video: AVC :D
Audio: 16bit PCM and TrueHD (either 20bit or 24bit, not confirmed yet)

An exchange program is still planned for current owners.


May I ask how you know this? What are you sources? Do you have any links to the following news that are relieable sources? Sounds awesome if true I love this movie! Thanks!

Sorry forgot to mention. Directly from paidgeek.

Sweetness! :D

Your info sounds about right (what I would expect from the re-issue), but a source/link/confirmation would be nice :) .

EDIT:

Sorry forgot to mention. Directly from paidgeek.

Quick on the draw, I see ;)

Great news!

Release date, plz :D

Whats the point of a PCM track as well as a TrueHD one?

Is this an April fools thread? :D

I'm so sick an tired of these April Fools jokes!

Whats the point of a PCM track as well as a TrueHD one?

I'd like to see this on all releases, I can play PCM but not TrueHD at present.

I'm really interested in the exchange program. the version I have doesn't look too bad but I'd love to see it in it's finest.

You heard it here first. :) Heres the info I have so far:

No exact release date yet but look for it around July. Sony had originally planned to make it a holiday release with new content. But they couldn't create the content they wanted so the release date got pushed up.

It will be a BD50 with the following specs:

Video: AVC :D
Audio: 16bit PCM and TrueHD (either 20bit or 24bit, not confirmed yet)

An exchange program is still planned for current owners.

please let it be 24bit :) and if DolbyTrueHD than without dialog normalization :)

can't wait
Marek

Out of curiosity, what's the excitement? Do people like the movie that much and want to see it at its finest, or is it an assumption that it will be a fantastic reference disk based on the fact that the DVD was so outstanding?

Is there any reason to assume the latter? Aren't the Blu-ray movies going back to film and re-doing the transfer process anyway, so isn't it irrelevant which movies looked best on dvd?

Just curious, I'd like to understand this. Incidentally, I liked the movie. But I think of it more as a reference dvd that's great for testing, than a classic Sci-fi flick.

Out of curiosity, what's the excitement? Do people like the movie that much and want to see it at its finest, or is it an assumption that it will be a fantastic reference disk based on the fact that the DVD was so outstanding?

I think it is more the former than the latter and that everyone that got the first release were disappointed. It just strikes a chord with some people, including me. It is not like any other sci-fi flicks but you've got: Milla, very colorful scenery and wardrobes, the cool opera performance, *bzzzzzt* *bzzzzzt* *bzzzzzzzzzt*, silly stuff like the traffic light borders around human space, some funny scenes like the botched hold-up by the guy in the camouflage hat, an evil Gary Oldman... what is not to like? It is a classic for me. :)

I think the plan is to eventually switch to TrueHD completely and they are testing it out now. The PCM is included so everyone without a PS3 can still enjoy lossless audio. Since none of the players except the PS3 support TrueHD yet.
By the time it's released, the Panny should support DTHD. Sweet...


Thanks for the info.

what is not to like?
http://www.planetout.com/images/popcornq/dbimages/f/fifth_element.jpg
Jar Jar Binks had NOTHING on this guy.

I like the movie (despite ripping off Heavy Metal's Harry Canyon), but I cannot STAND Ruby Rhod!

Out of curiosity, what's the excitement? Do people like the movie that much and want to see it at its finest, or is it an assumption that it will be a fantastic reference disk based on the fact that the DVD was so outstanding?

Is there any reason to assume the latter? Aren't the Blu-ray movies going back to film and re-doing the transfer process anyway, so isn't it irrelevant which movies looked best on dvd?

Just curious, I'd like to understand this. Incidentally, I liked the movie. But I think of it more as a reference dvd that's great for testing, than a classic Sci-fi flick.
This is personally one of my favorite popcorn flicks. It has a great premise and cast and doesn't take itself too seriously. As someone else on the forum said, its Die Hard in Space :p

Well, I would have liked to see what new extras they were planning, but if they couldn't do that it's okay.

However, they are at least including the extras from the 2-disc DVD, right?

Well, I would have liked to see what new extras they were planning, but if they couldn't do that it's okay.

However, they are at least including the extras from the 2-disc DVD, right?
That's the big question. You would think so since they are using AVC on a 50GB.

http://www.planetout.com/images/popcornq/dbimages/f/fifth_element.jpg
Jar Jar Binks had NOTHING on this guy.


Sure he had. Jar Jar had something of a lisp didn't he? :)

I think Rod's sexual ambiguity made him funny, so at least in some small way, he added something.

With Jar-Jar, it was pure, unadulterated stupidity. I hate Jar-Jar.

This is fantastic news! Can't wait for this.

TrueHD?! Has Sony released any other titles with TrueHD?

TrueHD?! Has Sony released any other titles with TrueHD?

I believe Stomp the Yard is slated to get TrueHD and PCM next month.

Really looking forward to this title. This is a fav of mine as well. Sometimes when I can't decide what to put on I reach for the 5E. I hope it is 24 bit as that would rock!

Is there any reason to assume the latter? Aren't the Blu-ray movies going back to film and re-doing the transfer process anyway, so isn't it irrelevant which movies looked best on dvd?

Almost all major studio DVDs have been "Mastered in High Definition" for years. The majority of HD DVD and Blu-ray releases have come from the same HD master as the DVD.

Except for The Fifth Element, which for some reason was taken from a much worse master than the Superbit DVD.

I think Rod's sexual amiguity made him funny, so at least in some small way, he added something.

With Jar-Jar, it was pure, unadulterated stupidity. I hate Jar-Jar.
Yeah, that was back when Chris Tucker was still funny (imo.) Jar-Jar was just awful.

No comparison.

The only reason I don't have T5E on BD already is that I knew this release was coming. I'll finally be able to pick this bad boy up. Nice.

Except for The Fifth Element, which for some reason was taken from a much worse master than the Superbit DVD.The original BD used the same master as the Superbit release, thats according to Sony's Don Eklund.

will sony swap for us

The only reason I don't have T5E on BD already is that I knew this release was coming. I'll finally be able to pick this bad boy up. Nice.
Ditto. I've been painfully avoiding picking up T5E on BD due to the reports of terrible PQ (and given the screen grabs I've seen floating around the forum, the reports are definitely deserved).

Love it or hate it, T5E is an amazing eye candy movie and holds a soft spot for HT enthusiasts around the world. This is a really great olive branch from Sony.

http://www.planetout.com/images/popcornq/dbimages/f/fifth_element.jpg
Jar Jar Binks had NOTHING on this guy.

I like the movie (despite ripping off Heavy Metal's Harry Canyon), but I cannot STAND Ruby Rhod!

Yes. This character is what made 5th Element a 'good' movie, instead of a 'GREAT" one.

Great news!!!

I think the plan is to eventually switch to TrueHD completely and they are testing it out now. The PCM is included so everyone without a PS3 can still enjoy lossless audio. Since none of the players except the PS3 support TrueHD yet.

Great news - but the audio part still seems sily to me.

If they want to got this route, it seems to me it should just be a single 20/24-bit PCM track or a single 20/24-bit TrueHD track.

I would imagine a 16-bit PCM + 20/24-bit TrueHD would occupy more space than a single 20/24-bit PCM... and of course offer no advantages. (Course if there is extra room - no harm either.)

(I'm assuming TrueHD has an approximate 40-50% compressoin ratio like FLAC... though maybe sparse audio in the surround channels results in alot better compression.)

BD doesn't require a TrueHD decoder. I'm assuming if BD becomes mainstream, there will always be low-end players w/o the decoeder, just as low-end DVD players still exist that can't decode DTS.

I for one will just buy it again. I bought it a few times on DVD why not Blu-ray. This is one of my favorites so it doesnt bother me. The case will likely be different and any trade in program will likely just be the disk and will take 2-3 months to get back to you. This is time that you wont have it.

Just buy the new one and trade in the other one so when it comes back you will have 2 copies. In case one gets lost or hurt. :D

Great news - but the audio part still seems sily to me.

Like a previous poster said, I think including both tracks is a transitionary step until most (if not all) players will be able to decode Dolby TrueHD.

Like a previous poster said, I think including both tracks is a transitionary step until most (if not all) players will be able to decode Dolby TrueHD.
Maybe this is why 80% of releases will be BD50s from now on.

I think the idea is to give consumers the chance to see the difference themselves -- if they can put a Dolby TrueHD 20-24bit track in the same space as a PCM track, and then show people that TrueHD is better because of that ("this is what you'll get as a replacement for PCM -- this is better for you!"), transitioning should go smoothly. I think you'd find some people resistant to getting TrueHD just because of all the false information that was around about PCM being better if they weren't able to compare for themselves (or have others on forum compare and tell everyone). I'm not certain it's about giving all players a chance to add True HD support (probably part of it though), so much as showing the early adopters that this is beneficial to them in the end.

I think the idea is to give consumers the chance to see the difference themselves -- if they can put a Dolby TrueHD 20-24bit track in the same space as a PCM track, and then show people that TrueHD is better because of that ("this is what you'll get as a replacement for PCM -- this is better for you!"), transitioning should go smoothly. I think you'd find some people resistant to getting TrueHD just because of all the false information that was around about PCM being better if they weren't able to compare for themselves (or have others on forum compare and tell everyone). I'm not certain it's about giving all players a chance to add True HD support (probably part of it though), so much as showing the early adopters that this is beneficial to them in the end.

I think they may also be letting us test compatibility of players. That way, if it turns out that players have trouble with the TrueHD tracks, there's still the PCM to fall back on.

benes,

fantastic news. I have been waiting for this.

One question though:

Any word about Dolby TrueHD dialog normalization?

The original BD used the same master as the Superbit release, thats according to Sony's Don Eklund.

I have a very hard time believing this.

The Superbit simply does not contain all the dirt and scratches that are in the BD release.

Maybe this is why 80% of releases will be BD50s from now on.
From Sony, not overall - right?

Don't insult Ruby Rhod by comparing him to Jar Jar!!!

;)

I have a very hard time believing this.

The Superbit simply does not contain all the dirt and scratches that are in the BD release.Thats what he told me personally when I questioned him on the quality of the Blu Ray release soon after it came out. Maybe he was misinformed, but he certainly appeared to know what he was talking about. It doesn't make too much sense to use one master that produced a very good Superbit release, and then use a different (inferior) one to produce your Blu Ray version from. But then I imagine stranger things have happened.

Thats what he told me personally when I questioned him on the quality of the Blu Ray release soon after it came out. Maybe he was misinformed, but he certainly appeared to know what he was talking about. It doesn't make too much sense to use one master that produced a very good Superbit release, and then use a different (inferior) one to produce your Blu Ray version from. But then I imagine stranger things have happened.

I agree with you!

And I hope you didn't take my post to mean that I did not believe that Eklund told you this. It just doesn't make sense given the differences between the two in terms of dirt and scratches. :confused:

benes,

fantastic news. I have been waiting for this.

One question though:

Any word about Dolby TrueHD dialog normalization?

As a policy, we will not use dial norm for the THD portion of the Dolby tracks going forward.

As a policy, we will not use dial norm for the THD portion of the Dolby tracks going forward.Good news. Is this specifically a response to the AVS poll that was done here on that issue?

As a policy, we will not use dial norm for the THD portion of the Dolby tracks going forward.

Thanks, paidgeek :) !

Can you divulge anything regarding release date :) ?

As a policy, we will not use dial norm for the THD portion of the Dolby tracks going forward.

That's fantastic! Nice to see Sony react to customers desires.

Good news. Is this specifically a response to the AVS poll that was done here on that issue?

Yes, as mentioned in other posts, the desire in the AVS forum for having dial norm turned off was overwhelmingly clear. I discussed any potential problems with Dolby and their recommendation was to continue using dial norm for the legacy DD stream so as not to affect compression and fold down performance. Because THD handles these functions differently, there is no harm in disabling dial norm for the THD stream.

As a policy, we will not use dial norm for the THD portion of the Dolby tracks going forward.

Fantastic news! Hopefully as other studios move towards using TrueHD they will follow your lead.

Thanks, paidgeek :) !

Can you divulge anything regarding release date :) ?

The date has not been announced yet, but I expect it to be at least another 12 weeks out.

The original BD used the same master as the Superbit release, thats according to Sony's Don Eklund.

Don Eklund has said many things that have proven totally false. Add this one to the list, and while you're at it ask him where all those "amoebas" and "jellyfish" are on VC-1 encoded discs. :rolleyes:

The pattern of dirt and scratches on the Blu-ray Fifth Element are completely different than those on the Superbit DVD. They were each transferred from different film elements. This is easily and indisputably proven.

As a policy, we will not use dial norm for the THD portion of the Dolby tracks going forward.

thanx thanx thanx :)

Marek

The pattern of dirt and scratches on the Blu-ray Fifth Element are completely different than those on the Superbit DVD. They were each transferred from different film elements. This is easily and indisputably proven.If paidgeek is still hanging around in this thread maybe he can confirm whether the Superbit and BD used the same master?

I suppose the next question is, assuming they didn't - why did Sony not use the best master available to them for such a popular movie and key release title?

Makes no sense :confused:

Out of curiosity, what's the excitement? Do people like the movie that much and want to see it at its finest, or is it an assumption that it will be a fantastic reference disk based on the fact that the DVD was so outstanding?

Is there any reason to assume the latter? Aren't the Blu-ray movies going back to film and re-doing the transfer process anyway, so isn't it irrelevant which movies looked best on dvd?

Just curious, I'd like to understand this. Incidentally, I liked the movie. But I think of it more as a reference dvd that's great for testing, than a classic Sci-fi flick.

Whats the excitement about?

THREE WORDS!!

Corbin Dallas Multipass!

Whats the excitement about?

THREE WORDS!!

Corbin Dallas Multipass!

;)

The scene right before application of "thermal bandages" isn't too bad either! :D

As a policy, we will not use dial norm for the THD portion of the Dolby tracks going forward.

Thank you VERY much. Kudos to Sony.

Nice. Sweet. Dude - radical and like what not. Can't wait to see the cowardly Mangalores face our Leloo and flee to the closet.

What an excellent demo disk this will be.

Let the double dipping begin...

But kudos to Sony if they actually get it right.

I'll quadruple-dip on this one in a heartbeat! (DVD, Superbit, initial BR, fixed BR).

So many reasons:

1. Great imagery for HD eye candy

2. GREAT campy sci-fi.

3. Leeloo. 'Nuff said.

4. For some reason I tend to REALLY enjoy the films that Bruce Willis is involved in. Not sure if it's the types of movies he gravitates towards, or what...

Next task: Hudson Hawk in HD-DVD or BR!!

*cue Mission Impossible theme*

I agree with many here in that it's a great popcorn flick, much in the same way "star ship troopers" is/was. I look forward to finally "maybe" being able to pull the trigger on this title. It was so badly thrashed here, i didn't dare before.

I believe this news to be true, not only because paidgeek says so (he's very reliable), but because in the invetory system at BBY says it's "Deleted" . Also, it was the pack in movie with the bdp-s1, now the pack in disc is "Black Hawk Down" I'm sure they had pressed thousands of TFE originally and once it was so brutally bashed it was probably decided to just remaster it, and toss the remaining inventory in with the bdp-s1. I'm of the opinion that Talladega Nights went through a similar fate, being that the ps3 pack in is a subpar encode vs. the retail version which looks a little better, has extras and lossless audio.

Just my 2 pennies.

Looks to me like Sony cares more about their early adopters and are correcting their early mistakes. This is great news for Blu-ray!

I'll quadruple-dip on this one in a heartbeat! (DVD, Superbit, initial BR, fixed BR).

So many reasons:

1. Great imagery for HD eye candy

2. GREAT campy sci-fi.

3. Leeloo. 'Nuff said.

4. For some reason I tend to REALLY enjoy the films that Bruce Willis is involved in. Not sure if it's the types of movies he gravitates towards, or what...

Next task: Hudson Hawk in HD-DVD or BR!!

*cue Mission Impossible theme*

5.Milla Jojovich

6.Corbin Dallas Multipass :D

Looks to me like Sony cares more about their early adopters and are correcting their early mistakes. This is great news for Blu-ray!

Have they corrected any other releases?

Have they corrected any other releases?

No, but I am hoping for Memento next. :)

We should be very appreciative that they're doing trade-ins, even if it's just for this title. I'm shocked they're actually going to be replacing the discs people already bought. I don't think that's ever happened in a case where there was nothing technically "wrong" with the disc. They've replaced defective discs, and discs with errors or mis-pressings, but I can't recall any time a disc with lackluster quality has had a replacement program (however informal) from the studio. Sure, they've re-released titles many times, but replacing the original copies at no charge (shipping and handling aside)? Never, AFAIK.

Have they corrected any other releases?
no, but I think delays have been for good reason...and have you seen a poor BD in months comming out of Sony? i haven't...they've really set the bar IMO in the last few months, mpeg2 or AVC...their really doing quite well, and dispelling the BS that VC-1 is so "superior" and all others "inferior".

I'll quadruple-dip on this one in a heartbeat! (DVD, Superbit, initial BR, fixed BR).

So many reasons:

1. Great imagery for HD eye candy

2. GREAT campy sci-fi.

3. Leeloo. 'Nuff said.

4. For some reason I tend to REALLY enjoy the films that Bruce Willis is involved in. Not sure if it's the types of movies he gravitates towards, or what...

Next task: Hudson Hawk in HD-DVD or BR!!

*cue Mission Impossible theme*

This will also be my 4th or perhaps even 5th purchace of this movie ? Was it released on VHS ?

Also I LOVE Hudson Hawk ! It is a major guilty pleasure of mine as most people rip on it.

As a policy, we will not use dial norm for the THD portion of the Dolby tracks going forward.

That's some great news!!! Thank you Sony and Paidgeek ;)

It's really great to have AVS playing such an important role in setting the trends for a higher quality standards.

I'm a little bit behind on the insiders thread, but I'll be catching up soon.

Paidgeek.

have you got the PM I sent you a while ago? Will it be possible for you address some of those issues, specially about original audio tracks? (you can be sure I will keep all your comments private)

Whats the point of a PCM track as well as a TrueHD one?

Because TrueHD will decode onto my receiver in DTS whereas PCM sounds like crap, so I'll take DTS any day over PCM audio.

As for this thread, is there any official info? Saying it came from paidgeek means nothing to me, as I can't find the site on a search engine.

Because TrueHD will decode onto my receiver in DTS whereas PCM sounds like crap, so I'll take DTS any day over PCM audio.

As for this thread, is there any official info? Saying it came from paidgeek means nothing to me, as I can't find the site on a search engine.

LOL!

Just forget about it then. It's not happening. Move along, nothing to see here.

Because TrueHD will decode onto my receiver in DTS whereas PCM sounds like crap, so I'll take DTS any day over PCM audio.



I don't understand that at all. Aren't you trading lossless for lossy with your method?

PCM sounds like crap? Isn't that contrary to what just about everyone believes and hears?

I think he meant to say:

"Because DTS-HD MA will decode onto my receiver in DTS whereas PCM sounds like crap, so I'll take DTS-HD MA any day over PCM audio."

(The reason he said PCM sounds like crap is because he doesn't have a receiver that can decode it, so he's limited to two channels. I wouldn't say it sounds like crap, but I wouldn't want to use it over lossy surround.)

5.Milla Jojovich

6.Corbin Dallas Multipass :D


That's "Mooollteeepass" ;)

no, but I think delays have been for good reason...and have you seen a poor BD in months comming out of Sony? i haven't...they've really set the bar IMO in the last few months, mpeg2 or AVC...their really doing quite well, and dispelling the BS that VC-1 is so "superior" and all others "inferior".


The delays are just showing that it takes more work to get Mpeg-2 and AVC to look as good as VC-1.

Terrific news. Now I can finally pick this one up (in July).

Did I miss it?
When is the new release date for the 2nd issue ?

Not sure, but I bet we'll see a 2nd version of Fifth Element before we see another $40 Fox catalog title.

You heard it here first. :) Heres the info I have so far:

No exact release date yet but look for it around July. Sony had originally planned to make it a holiday release with new content. But they couldn't create the content they wanted so the release date got pushed up.

It will be a BD50 with the following specs:

Video: AVC :D
Audio: 16bit PCM and TrueHD (either 20bit or 24bit, not confirmed yet)
An exchange program is still planned for current owners.


Thank the maker!!!

A 24 bit re-master... or even a 24 bit re-mix/overhaul (how about 7.1?) would be a blessing, a blessing from the Lord!

Dan

Hmmm,New Release for the 5th Element in July which is about the same time Sony is releasing their new Bdp-S300 Blu-Ray player.

That post from the good doctor is one of the most perplexing I have ever seen. :confused: And thats saying a lot cause I've seen some strange stuff before. :D

Maybe Saturday Nite hadn't ended for him yet. ;)

A couple of questions.

1. why did Sony screw this one up? What happened?
2. why did they release it at all? did they know they screwed up initally or did someone press "print 200,000 times" when the wrong master was in the blu-ray copier in tokyo?
3. which DVD versions are out there?
4. which DVD version is the best and how are the other DVD releases?

asking legimate questions is not trolling Sir....

I bought a month ago just to see how bad it was, and it isn't great.
I did like the PCM sound track though. The comparison to a lossless track will be interesting. In general the PCM tracks have sounded better than some of the lossless tracks (some on HD DVD) although I am not sure why. Is it possible the PowerDVD handles PCM better than a lossless sound track?

Will there be any cost to upgrade?

- Rich

I bought a month ago just to see how bad it was, and it isn't great.
I did like the PCM sound track though. The comparison to a lossless track will be interesting. In general the PCM tracks have sounded better than some of the lossless tracks (some on HD DVD) although I am not sure why. Is it possible the PowerDVD handles PCM better than a lossless sound track?

Will there be any cost to upgrade?

- Rich

DolbyTrueHD tracks are using dialog normalization feature, wich can cause different sounding against PCM....

and as it was confirmed here by paidgeek, dolbytruehd on FE will have that feautre turned OFF....

other possibility... DolbyTrueHD tracks were so far 16bit, and you have several PCM releases 24bit, so I am sure 24bits will sound BETTER :)

Marek

DolbyTrueHD tracks are using dialog normalization feature
Do all BD TrueHD released so far have dialog norm ON?
Can studios turn it off (if so desired)?
If so, we need another thread to show the studios we do not want DM engaged on any issues.

Sony released it for the same reason that Universal released an upconverted movie. Because that was the only master they had access to.
Do you know this for a fact, or are you drawing conclusions? Why wouldn't they have access to the master used for the Superbit release? Why wouldn't they be able to create a new master?

IMO, saying that Sony released a sub-standard version of T5E just because they only had access to a crappy master is a cop-out. No one forced them to release T5E, right? They could have waited until a better master was created (or made available) rather than releasing what they did, right? Your answer is speculation and nothing more, right? The only way it wouldn't be is if you've lied to us and you're really an undisclosed insider - but we know that's not true, right?

For that matter, how do you know that Universal released the version of Traffic that they did because of a lack of alternative masters? More speculation, or do you know more than we do?

Do you know this for a fact, or are you drawing conclusions? Why wouldn't they have access to the master used for the Superbit release? Why wouldn't they be able to create a new master?

IMO, saying that Sony released a sub-standard version of T5E just because they only had access to a crappy master is a cop-out. No one forced them to release T5E, right? They could have waited until a better master was created (or made available) rather than releasing what they did, right? Your answer is speculation and nothing more, right? The only way it wouldn't be is if you've lied to us and you're really an undisclosed insider - but we know that's not true, right? Before BD, most of the 1080p masters were done using professional grade CRT monitors, which was not big to begin with. Quoting paidgeek from another forum:

"Of course the best available tools are used for that day and there were only a couple of choices, fly spot scanners or the Sony CCD array telecine. More importantly, then and up until present, CRT based displays are the common reference display in use for telecine and color correction work. These displays are expensive and have stable color reproduction, but they are dismal in comparison to a current 2M pixel display where pure resolution is concerned. I won't try to give a long explanation here, but CRT direct view monitors and projectors are limited in the resolution they can reproduce by beam spot size and picture level. If you are interested in the details, I suggest researching papers on the MTF of CRT based systems. The result of all this is that we have been doing transfer work for years without being able to see everything that is being captured. Worse, Joe average consumer can now buy a 2M pixel display for a modest price and resolve more detail than can be seen on industry standard displays. This is starting to change. Sony Pictures requires its post facilities now have a 2M pixel display available for QC work and I suspect these displays are going to start popping up in the telecine suites with time. This is already leading to better results."

Basically, Sony PHE thought they had a good enough master and they released it. They then got slammed for it even though the telecine was done using the print that they had. So now they've upgraded their equipment and are making sure that the source is the best that can be had for that title.


fuad

I think the plan is to eventually switch to TrueHD completely and they are testing it out now. The PCM is included so everyone without a PS3 can still enjoy lossless audio. Since none of the players except the PS3 support TrueHD yet.

I'm sorry to nitpick, but I think some misconception still prevales as to lossless vs. uncompressed. 16-bit PCM is uncompressed audio, it is not lossless. DTS-HD MA & Dolby TrueHD, on the other hand are lossless codecs, i.e. they are bit-for-bit accurate to the studio master.

That's why, if you look carefully on the BD sleevenotes, you see they clearly mention Uncompressed PCM audio, but never 'lossless' (unless the master itself was encoded in 16bit PCM audio, which is unlikely, to put it mildly).

Basically, Sony PHE thought they had a good enough master and they released it. They then got slammed for it even though the telecine was done using the print that they had. So now they've upgraded their equipment and are making sure that the source is the best that can be had for that title.


fuad
But they didn't use the same master as the one used for the Superbit release. Why is that? And why does it take enthusiasts using consumer-grade home theater equipment to tell a movie studio that the master was not "good enough?" Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why would they wait for backlash to "{make} sure that the source is the best that can be had for that title?" Why not do it right the first time?

I still think it's a cop-out. If Sony thought that the version of T5E that was released was "good enough" then how can we trust them to do it right the secondtime? If they didn't think it was "good enough," why'd they release it instead of shelving it until better sources and hardware were available?

About time!!! T5E is one of my favorite viewing pleasures, but I've held off picking it up on BD. I even skipped getting it for under $15 during a sale since the rumor about it's replacement was floating around. I can finally delete my TiVo HD-lite copy and give away my SB DVD once I pick up the remastered BD version.

T5E deserves to be a demo title. I'm hoping that Sony gets is right this time. The specs sound like they will.

Thanks Sony.

But they didn't use the same master as the one used for the Superbit release. Why is that? I'm not paidgeek. The following is conjecture in my part: the Superbit masters are catalogued differently in the system than their then reference HD master; then the 480p master was struck using better prints but those prints weren't re-defined as the new reference HD master.

And why does it take enthusiasts using consumer-grade home theater equipment to tell a movie studio that the master was not "good enough?" Because then, they didn't use consumer grade plasmas, LCDs and DLPs. What they got was good for HD 10 years ago.

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why would they wait for backlash to "{make} sure that the source is the best that can be had for that title?" Why not do it right the first time? Because they thought they had done it right the first time.

I still think it's a cop-out. If Sony thought that the version of T5E that was released was "good enough" then how can we trust them to do it right the secondtime? First of, do you have T5E on BD right now? Because then you have a reason to gripe at this level.

Secondly, check the quality of their BD releases this year. That should answer your question.

If they didn't think it was "good enough," why'd they release it instead of shelving it until better sources and hardware were available? They THOUGHT what they had was good enough. When they got the consumer feedback, that's when they KNEW that it wasn't.

Simply put, if you still has doubts whether SPHE's BD titles are good enough the first time or the second or the Nth time, then don't buy any of them.


fuad

As long as they're re-issuing it and offering a trade-in program for early-purchasers who the Hell cares?

Pointless argument.

About time!!! T5E is one of my favorite viewing pleasures, but I've held off picking it up on BD. I even skipped getting it for under $15 during a sale since the rumor about it's replacement was floating around. You should've gotten it then. SPHE is planning a trade-in program and not a recall.


fuad

I'm sorry to nitpick, but I think some misconception still prevales as to lossless vs. uncompressed. 16-bit PCM is uncompressed audio, it is not lossless. DTS-HD MA & Dolby TrueHD, on the other hand are lossless codecs, i.e. they are bit-for-bit accurate to the studio master.

That's why, if you look carefully on the BD sleevenotes, you see they clearly mention Uncompressed PCM audio, but never 'lossless' (unless the master itself was encoded in 16bit PCM audio, which is unlikely, to put it mildly).

I am sorry to nitpick too :) but it is not very accurate what you wrote...

LOSSLESS is

PCM
DTS HD MA
DOLBYTRUEHD


but if they downsample from 48khz/24bit to 16bit for example, it is also LOSSLESS, but not bit for bit to the master, but to that 16bit downmix...

DTS HD MA or DolbyTrueHD are packed version of PCM

So far all fox's DTS HD MA where 48khz/24bit, several disney or sony titles were 48khz/24bit, and ALL HD DVD DolbyTrueHD tracks were 16bit as far as I know...

Marek

You should've gotten it then. SPHE is planning a trade-in program and not a recall.


fuad

I broke down and bought it and it isnt THAT bad. It needs to be reworked but I wouldnt want to wait 3 or 4 months for them to accually mail out my replacement. I will buy the re-issue and so will most if not all of you posting in this thread. Who wants to be the guy who doesnt have the new one for months waiting for the replacement while everyone else is talking about it.

A replacement TRADE IN is welcome!!I hope we are not gona replace all BR dvds that we purchased with BD50s

and now back to TFE please

and now back to TFE please

Seriously.

and now back to TFE please
+1

---

I don't own the BD, but from the screenshots available here on the forum the Blu-ray T5E has more detail than the SD DVD version. Not "much" more, but more.

Compare against the HD DVDs of Spartacus and Traffic, both of which are now believed to be upconverts from the 480i masters.

There may be some bad Blu-rays out there, but thus far I don't think we've seen any that looked like SD DVD (and here's hoping we never do).

You could very well be right - there's no guarantee that the master used for the Superbit release was an HD master.

Actually, the SuperBit mission statement specified that all releases would come from High Definition masters.

Actually, the SuperBit mission statement specified that all releases would come from High Definition masters.
I stand corrected.

This makes it all the more confusing. Did they lose or destroy the Superbit master? If not, why was it not available to use on the BD version? Strange...

I am sorry to nitpick too :) but it is not very accurate what you wrote...

LOSSLESS is

PCM
DTS HD MA
DOLBYTRUEHD


but if they downsample from 48khz/24bit to 16bit for example, it is also LOSSLESS, but not bit for bit to the master, but to that 16bit downmix...

DTS HD MA or DolbyTrueHD are packed version of PCM

So far all fox's DTS HD MA where 48khz/24bit, several disney or sony titles were 48khz/24bit, and ALL HD DVD DolbyTrueHD tracks were 16bit as far as I know...

Marek

No Problem. You're welcome to 'nitpick', Marek :)

However, that is incorrect - in so far as 16-bit PCM is concerned - as I'm sure you're aware, 16-bit sampling of a 20 or 24-bit digital master (or even a high-fidelity analog master) does result in loss of resolution. That is a known fact, much discussed back in the days of analog-to-digital waveform conversion from analog music masters to 16-bit CD, and then again when SACD and DVD-A were launched. Essentially, 16-bit PCM surround is basically CD quality (or better) uncompressed sound in 5.1 channels. The raison détre for the lossless codecs is that they offer a space-efficient way of delivering lossless sound, at whatever bitrate is chosen by the studio engineer, that is faithful (i.e. bit-for-bit accurate) to the master, when decoded by the player/processor.

Re-sampled PCM, however many times better than lossy compression, however dynamic or rich sounding, is not lossless.

*I* might have confirmed it. But I have no credibility remember. Did you confirm it yourself? Did anyone else confirm it? If not why did so many people believe it? Just on my word? Without any evidence?

I searched my nickname and found this thread going back and forth.

For the avoidence of doubt, I did pass the information about the new TFE release to benes so that he could post it. Sorry this thread led to such a mess.



But they didn't use the same master as the one used for the Superbit release. Why is that? And why does it take enthusiasts using consumer-grade home theater equipment to tell a movie studio that the master was not "good enough?" Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why would they wait for backlash to "{make} sure that the source is the best that can be had for that title?" Why not do it right the first time?

I still think it's a cop-out. If Sony thought that the version of T5E that was released was "good enough" then how can we trust them to do it right the secondtime? If they didn't think it was "good enough," why'd they release it instead of shelving it until better sources and hardware were available?

I think the cop-out would be to leave well enough alone. TFE has continued to be in the top 5 selling Blu-ray titles for SPE, but you might notice that it is now discontinued due to the planned release of an improved version. There are in fact, many customers who find the original release to be quite acceptable, but we had the opportunity to do it again, better, so we are. The picture on the new release will be much cleaner, sharper and will have the additional audio option.

I think the cop-out would be to leave well enough alone. TFE has continued to be in the top 5 selling Blu-ray titles for SPE, but you might notice that it is now discontinued due to the planned release of an improved version. There are in fact, many customers who find the original release to be quite acceptable, but we had the opportunity to do it again, better, so we are. The picture on the new release will be much cleaner, sharper and will have the addtional audio option.
Good point. And thanks for stopping in to clarify what was going on.

I look forward to the new release.

I searched my nickname and found this thread going back and forth.

For the avoidence of doubt, I did pass the information about the new TFE release to benes so that he could post it. Sorry this thread led to such a mess.


I think the cop-out would be to leave well enough alone. TFE has continued to be in the top 5 selling Blu-ray titles for SPE, but you might notice that it is now discontinued due to the planned release of an improved version. There are in fact, many customers who find the original release to be quite acceptable, but we had the opportunity to do it again, better, so we are. The picture on the new release will be much cleaner, sharper and will have the additional audio option.

Great news. Can you confirm the free replacement program? ;)

- Rich

Great news. Can you confirm the free replacement program? ;)

- Rich

Yes, we will provide a replacement for those that want it. When the new version is close to ready for distribution, we will provide a post or some other communication about how to get your disc exchanged.

Yes, we will provide a replacement for those that want it. When the new versionc is close to ready for distribution, we will provide a post or some other communication about how to get your disc exchanged.

Paidgeek, can you confirm if Canadians are included as well?

Yes, we will provide a replacement for those that want it. When the new versionc is close to ready for distribution, we will provide a post or some other communication about how to get your disc exchanged.Good to hear this...Thanks PG :)

Yes, we will provide a replacement for those that want it. When the new versionc is close to ready for distribution, we will provide a post or some other communication about how to get your disc exchanged.


I want to thank you guys for doing this. It is great for a company to offer to replace something that was lacking for something that is superior even this long after the fact.

Btw, do you know if there will be different packaging for the new version of The Fifth Element? Different cover art, etc? I imagine you'd have to do new backcovers for the new TrueHD, right? I think I may keep the old disc and would like to be able to know I'm buying the new version.

(Before anyone says it, yes, Sony released it inferior to what it should have been, but they are offering to replace them with superior discs. How often does a company that releases flawed discs do that? Certainly, there are some other companies that release deeply flawed disc runs I'd wish would do the same without naming names.)

They're releasing T5E again?(when?) Awesome.

Now where's Lawrence of Arabia.

Yes, we will provide a replacement for those that want it. When the new versionc is close to ready for distribution, we will provide a post or some other communication about how to get your disc exchanged.

Awesome!

Thanks.

- Rich

I want to thank you guys for doing this. It is great for a company to offer to replace something that was lacking for something that is superior even this long after the fact.
Agreed. Definitely a stand-up move.

Yes, we will provide a replacement for those that want it. When the new versionc is close to ready for distribution, we will provide a post or some other communication about how to get your disc exchanged.

fabulous!!

Yes, we will provide a replacement for those that want it. When the new versionc is close to ready for distribution, we will provide a post or some other communication about how to get your disc exchanged.

Out of the few BD's that got the lowest transfer treatment this would be the one I would've picked, given the choice, to be re-done... and the trade-in deal just makes it better.

Good times.

Wonder If we'll need the purchase receipt if we want to exchange? I got The Fifth Element a few months ago when BB was having their buy 1 get 1 free deal. I doubt if I kept the receipt.

Classy move by Sony. :cool:
I'll buy it when it comes out.

Paidgeek, can you confirm if Canadians are included as well?

Should be no problem...

No Problem. You're welcome to 'nitpick', Marek :)

However, that is incorrect - in so far as 16-bit PCM is concerned - as I'm sure you're aware, 16-bit sampling of a 20 or 24-bit digital master (or even a high-fidelity analog master) does result in loss of resolution. That is a known fact, much discussed back in the days of analog-to-digital waveform conversion from analog music masters to 16-bit CD, and then again when SACD and DVD-A were launched. Essentially, 16-bit PCM surround is basically CD quality (or better) uncompressed sound in 5.1 channels. The raison détre for the lossless codecs is that they offer a space-efficient way of delivering lossless sound, at whatever bitrate is chosen by the studio engineer, that is faithful (i.e. bit-for-bit accurate) to the master, when decoded by the player/processor.

Re-sampled PCM, however many times better than lossy compression, however dynamic or rich sounding, is not lossless.

again nitpicking :)

all what I said was that PCM, DTS HD MA and DoblyTrueHD are LOSSLESS to the source !!! and that's why we want source to be 48khz/24bit !!!! ok ? :) can we agree on this ? :)

so of course you are lossing DATA with 16bit in pcm or dts hd ma or dolbyTrueHD,.... what I wrote, that ALL are LOSSLESS to the source, if the master is 48khz/24 and final track is same, yes than we have bit for bit same sound....

and by your definition you can't call any hd dvds dolbyTrueHD tracks lossless because they are 16bits :) and that's why we want TFE to be 48kz/24bit DolbyTrueHD track !!

Marek

and by your definition you can't call any hd dvds dolbyTrueHD tracks lossless because they are 16bits :) and that's why we want TFE to be 48kz/24bit DolbyTrueHD track !!

Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, End of Days and the NIN disc are all HD DVDs that have a 24-bit TrueHD track. Just a friendly FYI. :)

again nitpicking :)

all what I said was that PCM, DTS HD MA and DoblyTrueHD are LOSSLESS to the source !!! and that's why we want source to be 48khz/24bit !!!! ok ? :) can we agree on this ? :)

so of course you are lossing DATA with 16bit in pcm or dts hd ma or dolbyTrueHD,.... what I wrote, that ALL are LOSSLESS to the source, if the master is 48khz/24 and final track is same, yes than we have bit for bit same sound....

and by your definition you can't call any hd dvds dolbyTrueHD tracks lossless because they are 16bits :) and that's why we want TFE to be 48kz/24bit DolbyTrueHD track !!

Marek

Marek, firstly, may I suggest you tone down the ALL CAPS and multi-exclamation points, or use them sparingly, as it comes across as 'SHOUTING!!!!' on discussion forums, and I'm sure you didn't mean to shout.

Secondly, perhaps you meant to say that if the master and PCM tracks are sampled at identical bit rates and frequencies, then the PCM track would be lossless, which would be correct. But you did not, in fact, say that. Furthermore, the vast majority of PCM tracks on Blu Ray discs are sampled at 16 bits, not 24, which is why they are not lossless. Perhaps you are not aware of this, but that is a fact. If they were lossless to the source, as you put it, Sony et al would not hesitate to advertise that fact, however that would be inaccurate, and hence it is not done.

Thirdly, with your reference to DTS HD-MA & Dolby TrueHD not being lossless because they use 16-bit word length - you are comparing apples to oranges. These use compressed algorithms to deliver...(say it with me now)...LOSSLESS bit-accurate soundtracks that are faithful to the master. Whatever bitrate of the TrueHD track - the decompressed output is (must be, by definition) bit-for-bit equivalent to the input signal. This is not the same as Linear PCM, which is an uncompressed format (a digital waveform) to whit the sampling rate is directly correlated to the fidelity of the signal. If it is sampled at any bitrate lower than that of the master, it is not lossless (again, by definition). Compressed codecs discard data by design, as that data is reconstructed by the decoder. Uncompressed formats reconstruct nothing, so any data lost through re-sampling at lower bitrates is lost forever. Uncompressed is one thing, Lossless is another.

My response to you is strictly on your assertion that PCM in general is lossless. That is what you wrote in reply to my original post. That is what I responded to. You did not clarify or qualify your statement by referring to The Fifth Element track in particular or at least it was not clear to me (which perhaps you and I both should focus on as this is the subject here). IF your comments refer to the Blu Ray master (which is redundant in my view), then we are talking about different things here, as I'm referring to the original film master (the final sound mix). To say PCM in general is lossless just the same as DolbyTrueHD or DTS HD (MA) is wrong. Period.

I've said my piece on this - let's not drag this out, as I don't want to hijack this thread any more than it already has been.

One down.

Now all we need is a replacement for the House of Flying Daggers which is one of the most beautifully filmed movies I have ever seen.

- Rich

YellowCows, I say it again :) and I am not fighting with you ;) .... and sorry for OT

if DolbyTrueHD using downrez 16bit source, that's why it can't be bit for bit same as 24bit studio master !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it can be same bit for bit to the source used.

my friend, I know what is lossless, compressions, pcm, uncompressed signals etc etc...

are you trying to tell me that if studio master is 24bit, and they will use for DolbyTrueHD 16bit downrez for encoding, that after unpacking in player, you will get bit for bit 24bit master ? it is same as with 16bit PCM

I know that vast majority of PCMs are 16bit, and yes I want 24bit ;)
and I know that all dolbyTrueHD tracks on HD DVDs are 16bit, yup lossless to the 16bit source but not bit to bit to the 24bit master...

Marek :)

we can continue in other thread or through PM :) so we don't spam this TFE thread...

Wonder If we'll need the purchase receipt if we want to exchange? I got The Fifth Element a few months ago when BB was having their buy 1 get 1 free deal. I doubt if I kept the receipt.


more than likely, you'll have to send in your disc, and they will send you a replacement...

more than likely, you'll have to send in your disc, and they will send you a replacement...
Maybe not, though. I can't imagine what they would want the old discs for, unless it's just to make sure people don't take advantage of the program.

I don't know why, but I almost feel guilty for being as excited about this title being re-released as I am! ;)

mod

I did a thread cleanup to remove some of the threadcrap

This is the news we have waited for [TFE re release]: and Thanks to the OP for the news

Now: could we please stop the bickering?

Thanks

One down.

Now all we need is a replacement for the House of Flying Daggers which is one of the most beautifully filmed movies I have ever seen.

- Rich


I second you here, Rich

Can't wait for this one. PCM! :D TrueHD! :D

I think he was under the assumption that the legacy PCM master was 16-bit. Hopefully that's in error, as 20-bit PCM processing/mastering had started to come into vogue by that time.

I'm thrilled as punch that Sony won't be applying dialogue normalization to any of their lossless TrueHD encodes. BRAVO Sony.

With steps like this, Sony easily stands to transition from the studio that had been most criticized for it's HD software, to the studio most praised. We await the new Fifth Element BD with eager hands...

One down.

Now all we need is a replacement for the House of Flying Daggers which is one of the most beautifully filmed movies I have ever seen.

- RichI'm with you on this one also, but sadly I don't believe this will ever happen. :(



How about re-releasing "House of Flying Daggers" ? It's such a colorful movie and perfect showcase material for Hidef capability.


It certainly is colorful, but it is also very soft. There is nothing we can gain by remastering this title. Please enjoy it as it is.

I'm with you on this one also, but sadly I don't believe this will ever happen. :(

I am confused by this:

It certainly is colorful, but it is also very soft. There is nothing we can gain by remastering this title. Please enjoy it as it is.

I guess what is meant is that there is no business case, certianly the film source is much better than the BD has delivered.

Too bad really.

- Rich

I loaned my superbit copy out ....and as usual, never got it back so this gives me a reason to go for another one. Do I understand things right that this is TrueHD, not to be confused with BD?

I think he was under the assumption that the legacy PCM master was 16-bit. Hopefully that's in error, as 20-bit PCM processing/mastering had started to come into vogue by that time.There was not much available beyond 16 bit at the time. The PCM3324, PCM3348, DA-88, digital audio desk and most DAW's (Sonic, Avid, etc.) were 16 bit devices at that period of time.

For TFE, I will be happy to get it in PCM & Dolby TrueHD!!

True HD: by Dolby Labs lossless audio (http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/trueHD.html)

Total HD Combo disc: BD on one side/ HD DVD on the other (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/total-hd-disc-format-from-warner-bros-combines-bluray-hd-dvd-into-one-disc-225962.php)

Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, End of Days and the NIN disc are all HD DVDs that have a 24-bit TrueHD track. Just a friendly FYI. :)

THanx for info :) I don't have those disc, and I was told that all of them are 16bit....
so that's making 3 hd dvds discs with 24bit,

thanx again
Marek

THanx for info :) I don't have those disc, and I was told that all of them are 16bit....
so that's making 3 hd dvds discs with 24bit,

thanx again
Marek
Those are the only 24bit lossless tracks. Most, if not all, of the Universal DD+ tracks are 24bit as well.

On the BD side, the Fox tracks are all 24bit DTS-HD MA, as far as I know. I think that most of the PCM tracks are 16bit, with a handful being 24, but I could be way off on that.

I don't know why, but I almost feel guilty for being as excited about this title being re-released as I am! ;)

Why feel guilty? I'm glad the studio is owning up to their botched release and going to re-release it. I'm glad I didn't buy it the first time, but will be happy when the new one comes out.

Even though I'm not as fond of T5E as some of you here, I will be showing my gratitude for Sony doing the right thing. I will buy this new version and I look forward to the much improved transfer as well as the best possible lossless audio (with no Dial Norm). I have a PS3 and can hear the TrueHD track.

I hope Sony will, from now on, not back away from releasing true to the original master tracks in Dolby TrueHD. If there is an opportunity to re-master and/or remix a title to improve upon the original for better fidelity, if the filmmakers want to try their hand at a 7.1 mix, etc. then I'm all for that too. I still don't see any need to do PCM and lossless on the same disc.

Dan

One down.

Now all we need is a replacement for the House of Flying Daggers which is one of the most beautifully filmed movies I have ever seen.

- Rich

I think this has been discussed before and someone from Sony said House of Flying Daggers wasn't going to get a re-release, don't recall if this was because the source was the limiting factor, or not enough sales to justify it. At any rate it has an amazing audio track and I use it for demos regularly.

I'm not quite sure I understand the philosophy of waiting and buying the new version when it's not likely to be as heavily discounted. Just pick-up the current version which is on closeout everywhere and trade it in.

Donnie where can you get T5E on the cheap? Thats what I was planning buying low trading it in for the real release but 19 is lowest I've seen it.
.

IMO I do not see the attraction of this mvie? What is it? I rented the blu Ray from BB today and turned it off about 45 minutes into it? I could not get into it. It felt super old and very cheesy. Not a good choice of material I would ever pick to show off my blu ray player but not even a good choice to want to ever watch again. I was just wondering where is the appeal...is it only Mila? Someone please help me understand.

Donnie where can you get T5E on the cheap? Thats what I was planning buying low trading it in for the real release but 19 is lowest I've seen it.
.
Check your PM.

IMO I do not see the attraction of this mvie? What is it? I rented the blu Ray from BB today and turned it off about 45 minutes into it? I could not get into it. It felt super old and very cheesy. Not a good choice of material I would ever pick to show off my blu ray player but not even a good choice to want to ever watch again. I was just wondering where is the appeal...is it only Mila? Someone please help me understand.
T5E is special to HT enthusiasts for a number of reasons.

The Superbit version of T5E is a commonly available reference-quality DVD, and a lot of people use it to show off the best of what DVD can do. It has lots of action, really intense coloration, and two very popular movie stars (Bruce Willis, Milla Jovovich), plus a lot of really excellent cinematography.

T5E is special to HT enthusiasts for a number of reasons.

The Superbit version of T5E is a commonly available reference-quality DVD, and a lot of people use it to show off the best of what DVD can do. It has lots of action, really intense coloration, and two very popular movie stars (Bruce Willis, Milla Jovovich), plus a lot of really excellent cinematography.
Plus, some people actually like the movie.

T5E is special to HT enthusiasts for a number of reasons.

Particularly, Mila's escape and Bruce Willis subsequent car chase is a great demo sequence, along with the blue lady opera performance combined with Mila's alien butt-kicking.

T5E is special to HT enthusiasts for a number of reasons.

The Superbit version of T5E is a commonly available reference-quality DVD, and a lot of people use it to show off the best of what DVD can do. It has lots of action, really intense coloration, and two very popular movie stars (Bruce Willis, Milla Jovovich), plus a lot of really excellent cinematography.

this has always been one of my favorites to show off a display

I am looking forward to the re release: I want to see a bigger difference in PQ between the SB version played on an XA2 and the BR version

IMO I do not see the attraction of this mvie? What is it? I rented the blu Ray from BB today and turned it off about 45 minutes into it? I could not get into it. It felt super old and very cheesy. Not a good choice of material I would ever pick to show off my blu ray player but not even a good choice to want to ever watch again. I was just wondering where is the appeal...is it only Mila? Someone please help me understand.

It is cheesy! Intentionally so, I believe.

Why do people like the movie? Because it is a wild, over the top ride! :cool:

Maybe not, though. I can't imagine what they would want the old discs for, unless it's just to make sure people don't take advantage of the program.

yes - it would be for proof of purchase. assuming they do a 1-1 swap (or very cheap) that's what other manufacturers have done.

I dont know why people dog on this movie so much.

My girlfriend bought me this last night on BD, so I'll have to get a replacement when the time comes, but I popped it in and it still looked great even though a tier 3. Granted I could see the hairs and debris on the film at times, but it had some good moments of 3d-like imagery.

But it's by far one of my favorite sci-fi flicks. It's one of those movies you can pop in to just escape from reality for 90 minutes and just laugh. It's cheesy as all get out and at times more comedy than action. I've yet to have a person not enjoy it after showing it to them.

Granted, if your movie of choice is realistic to life dramas, you'll be somewhat un-entertained..., but if you go into it with an open mind and a willingness to just cut loose and have fun with a beer in hand on a rough evening and feel like watching some alien ass get kicked by an 80 lb when soaking wet half naked french chick.. then by all means.... enjoy yourself ;) :D

I'm not quite sure I understand the philosophy of waiting and buying the new version when it's not likely to be as heavily discounted. Just pick-up the current version which is on closeout everywhere and trade it in.There are no guarantees in life, including this one.

Even if Sony decides to do trade ins for the original version, you'll still have to pay postage, and by the time you're done it probably won't cost much more to buy it new. Plus there's no telling if they'll be selling new cases for the new version, etc, etc.

I did a bit more homework on the masters used for the original BD release and the Superbit DVD, they are different.

We incorrectly stated that both of the discs were sourced from the same master, because of a mis-communication in the company.

It's a long story, but both came from HD transfers and both had some problems.

The upside is the new transfer is outstanding and will demonstrate a marked improvement over any previous release.

This kind of improvement is not possible with every title, but I am pleased to tell you that everything worked out for this one.

Sounds great. Thanks, Paidgeek! Can't wait. I wonder if I should buy the old one in hopes of trading it in... or if I should just wait for the new one. My inclination is to wait...

Sounds great. Thanks, Paidgeek! Can't wait. I wonder if I should buy the old one in hopes of trading it in... or if I should just wait for the new one. My inclination is to wait...

If you have not purchased the older version yet, please wait for the newer one. Our offices will have enough requests to fill on the exchange, so no need to add to the load unnecessarily.

I was just about to order one from buy.com.

Can you tell me how long I should hold off on this purchase? :)
This my favorite movie and I feel guilty not owning it on BD.

And will there be a way for me to tell the difference between the two releases?
I'm almost positive someone will mark them down and try to sell the flawed discs.

The upside is the new transfer is outstanding and will demonstrate a marked improvement over any previous release.Thanks for keeping us informed.

OT: I hope that you know many of us highly value your post here at AVS.

I was just about to order one from buy.com.

Can you tell me how long I should hold off on this purchase? :)
This my favorite movie and I feel guilty not owning it on BD.

And will there be a way for me to tell the difference between the two releases?
I'm almost positive someone will mark them down and try to sell the flawed discs.

I expect the new version to be ready in about 12 weeks.

It will be easy to distinguish the new version because it will have Dolby THD, look for the logo on the back of the package.

If you have not purchased the older version yet, please wait for the newer one. Our offices will have enough requests to fill on the exchange, so no need to add to the load unnecessarily.
I just ordered 250 current copies from Amazon and will be glad to take advantage of your exchange service. :D

Thanks paidgeek. Great info, looking forward to the TrueHD.
Is sony going to do TrueHD on rest of its releases or is this sort of a test flight?

12 weeks, I guess I can wait until June. One year BR release aniversary. :)
Maybe Lawrence of Arabia will be close too.

Will TrueHD downres to 1.5 via optical on my PS3 like it does on my A-1 and A-2 ?

I did a bit more homework on the masters used for the original BD release and the Superbit DVD, they are different.

We incorrectly stated that both of the discs were sourced from the same master, because of a mis-communication in the company.

It's a long story, but both came from HD transfers and both had some problems.

The upside is the new transfer is outstanding and will demonstrate a marked improvement over any previous release.

This kind of improvement is not possible with every title, but I am pleased to tell you that everything worked out for this one.

Thanks paidgeek, that is certainly consistent with what many of us see. It just didn't make sense that these could have been from the same master.

Very glad to hear that this new transfer is going to be a big improvement! :)

Thanks for keeping us informed.

OT: I hope that you know many of us highly value your post here at AVS.

Thanks for your comments.

I also appreciate the information gained from the forum. It has provided useful feedback so that we can make a better product.

Will TrueHD downres to 1.5 via optical on my PS3 like it does on my A-1 and A-2 ?

No downres required. You can either output the LPCM or the fully decoded Dolby THD.

Thanks paidgeek. Great info, looking forward to the TrueHD.
Is sony going to do TrueHD on rest of its releases or is this sort of a test flight?

12 weeks, I guess I can wait until June. One year BR release aniversary. :)
Maybe Lawrence of Arabia will be close too.

We are working on about 6 titles with both LPCM and DD THD right now. What we do doing forward will depend on new players, consumer response, and whether the title warrants it.

thank you paidgeek, you have no idea how long I have been waiting for this news.

We are working on about 6 titles with both LPCM and DD THD right now. What we do doing forward will depend on new players, consumer response, and whether the title warrants it.

thanx again paidgeek for info !! it's great to know sony have several titles with this combination in work !

Marek

Paidgeek, can you tell us something about sony´s policy in Europe with PCM and truehd? TIA

Hiya paidgeek!
Thanks for all the info on TFE! You rock!
Now PLEASE, can you drop a hint on when we might see "Bram Stoker's Dracula?", "Taxi Driver" or "Close Encounters"...?
Thanks! d

Alright I tried to give this movie a second chance and I think my IQ actually lowered trying to watch it and again I could not make it all the way through. WIth that being said, and not taking into account with a grain of salt...I still don't see how the PQ of this film would ever be used by someone as reference material? I am missing something.

Ok, you don't like it and don't get why others like it. Time to move on....

The upside is the new transfer is outstanding and will demonstrate a marked improvement over any previous release.

This kind of improvement is not possible with every title, but I am pleased to tell you that everything worked out for this one.

We will see.

I think it will as paidgeek publicly said that here!

;)

If it DOESN'T look much better, some members here will ride his ass like an "E" ticket at Disneyland!

Alright I tried to give this movie a second chance and I think my IQ actually lowered trying to watch it and again I could not make it all the way through. WIth that being said, and not taking into account with a grain of salt...I still don't see how the PQ of this film would ever be used by someone as reference material? I am missing something.

Yes, you are absolutely missing something. Just think about how many people enjoy this movie for so many reasons. You don't get it, and that's fine. Stop worrying about it.

We will see.

OK then. We'll all wait for your seal of approval before doing anything.

No downres required. You can either output the LPCM or the fully decoded Dolby THD.


Thanks for the responce but I said over .. optical... PCM is only 2 channel via optical. The PS3 I know will decode the THD I just wonder if it will send it downresed over optical or is it just HDMI. If it doesnt then TFE would need a third English audio track for those without HDMI.

I soooo cannot wait for this rerelease. I'll likely just buy a second copy (I'll give the first to a friend) unless the exchange program would get the new version into my grubby little hands more quickly.

Has anyone recently compared the Superbit version with the BR disk? any differences?

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/3681/blurayvsdvd5thelement3xj1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/3773/blurayvsdvd5thelement2va5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Has anyone recently compared the Superbit version with the BR disk? any differences?


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=827529&page=9&pp=30

Thanks for the responce but I said over .. optical... PCM is only 2 channel via optical. The PS3 I know will decode the THD I just wonder if it will send it downresed over optical or is it just HDMI. If it doesnt then TFE would need a third English audio track for those without HDMI.

Sorry, I responded a bit too quick...

Over optical you will get legacy DD 5.1. This is not derived from the DD THD stream but is a dedicated stream for backward compatibilty.

I think it will as paidgeek publicly said that here!

;)

If it DOESN'T look much better, some members here will ride his ass like an "E" ticket at Disneyland!

My wife might have something to say about that...

My wife might have something to say about that...

Classic!

:D

Sorry, I responded a bit too quick...

Over optical you will get legacy DD 5.1. This is not derived from the DD THD stream but is a dedicated stream for backward compatibilty.


Thanks for clearing that up. So there will be 3 English audio tracks. I geuss I don't understand why the need for an uncompressed track (PCM) AND a lossless track (TrueHD). If you have a receiver that can resolve PCM then why the TrueHD ? Perhaps I missed the reason for this.

I don't either. Perhaps they can drop the PCM and just do TrueHD (24 bit original or re-mastered and possibly re-mixed if the filmmaker is willing to do it.... puuleeezzz!) as soon as most of the upcoming 2007 model receivers and other processors add TrueHD and Master Audio lossless decoding by the end of the year. PCM can be a space waster if you have other stuff competing for real estate.

Another thing to strongly consider for space consideration is to give the ORIGINAL language track the good stuff (i.e., high resolution original master quality sound and lossless encoding) and then secondary and audio commentary tracks don't need to be of primo quality. This could be handled the same way for all regions. I don't think we need to dumb down the original track and the video quality to make room for dubbed stuff. Like pan 'n' scan or open matte transfers, this should be something put in the dumpster of history.

And while we're asking for features, please putting coding in the subtitle streams that will allow us to move the subs to different locations of the screen (and possibly change the font size). Here's why: constant height 2.35:1 scope screens. Many times the second line of the subtitle text is placed into the lower black bar of a wide-screen (70mm and beyond) ratio movie. If you scale the image properly for a constant height, front projection system, the lower text gets cut off. This has been the bane of front projection owners since DVD's (heck, even VHS and laserdisc!).

Please add this feature from now on. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.

Thank you!

Dan

Thats the comparison of the HD cap to the bluray though. Here is the DVD (superbit?) compared to the bluray. :)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10131899&&#post10131899


Ooops my bad.

Sorry, I responded a bit too quick...

Over optical you will get legacy DD 5.1. This is not derived from the DD THD stream but is a dedicated stream for backward compatibilty.

Why a dedicated stream?

BD TrueHD has a core DD track that works perfectly. "Legends of Jazz" has one as well as a separate 5.1 DD track. But using any BD player you can access the DD core out optical/coaxial. That disc had room to spare since the show was fairly short.

I assume the PCM track is required since most of the current players cannot decode Dolby TrueHD.

- Rich

Another thing to strongly consider for space consideration is to give the ORIGINAL language track the good stuff (i.e., high resolution original master quality sound and lossless encoding) and then secondary and audio commentary tracks don't need to be of primo quality. This could be handled the same way for all regions. I don't think we need to dumb down the original track and the video quality to make room for dubbed stuff. Like pan 'n' scan or open matte transfers, this should be something put in the dumpster of history.

Now this I agree with. By the same token, I wouldn't want a lossless English dubbed track on a non-English language film. Identity has two PCM dubbed tracks taking up space and bandwidth, but I couldn't really complain because they did include the extras. Actually, if they're going to be doing more discs like Identity, that may explain why they want to go to TrueHD.

This was the first BD title that I purchased during the launch. The terrible PQ and resulting finger pointing by Sony is what has pushed me towards HD-DVD although I still have both players.

No reason to for assimilation. Resistance to either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD is futile. Both formats will survive. Samsung just realized this.

No reason to for assimilation. Resistance to either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD is futile. Both formats will survive. Samsung just realized this.

I love combo players, hope they become the norm. Gives Fox, Sony and Disney no reason to release HD-DVD.

I thought the topic was the re-release of The Fifth Element... my mistake.

The software must also be autored to allow subtile positioning.
Sony is working on it and will "soon" release a disc testing it.

I did a bit more homework on the masters used for the original BD release and the Superbit DVD, they are different.

We incorrectly stated that both of the discs were sourced from the same master, because of a mis-communication in the company.

It's a long story, but both came from HD transfers and both had some problems.

The upside is the new transfer is outstanding and will demonstrate a marked improvement over any previous release.

This kind of improvement is not possible with every title, but I am pleased to tell you that everything worked out for this one.

Great info...looking forward to this one. :)

Great info...looking forward to this one. :)

cant wait, one of a few my repeated watch film list.

I watched FE last nite on Dish TNT-HD @720p and it looked fantastic!
Not a blemish...perfect in every way.
Appeared 3D-ish much of the time (incredible depth).
Sure hope the new BD will look this good. ;)

I watched FE last nite on Dish TNT-HD @720p and it looked fantastic!
Not a blemish...perfect in every way.
Appeared 3D-ish much of the time (incredible depth).
Sure hope the new BD will look this good. ;)

I saw it too (and have seen it before on TNT-HD). Here is the best part of it looking so good: this was BLOWN UP to fill the 16:9 aspect ratio! The OAR is 2.35. So, this could look even better when it is released in its OAR.

Is this still going to happen? I am thinking about the Fry's sale but do not want the hassle of trading it in.

Why wouldn't it still happen?

I saw it on TNT as well and it does look good.

However, many parts of the infamous Blu-ray disk look fine. (I have a copy and did some comparisons). The BD is inconsistent. And the worst thing about it is the places that are dirty of course.

I saw it on TNT as well and it does look good.

However, many parts of the infamous Blu-ray disk look fine. (I have a copy and did some comparisons). The BD is inconsistent. And the worst thing about it is the places that are dirty of course.

Agreed.

dispelling the BS that VC-1 is so "superior" and all others "inferior".

I'm what some might label a HD-DVD 'fanboy' (which I'm not BTW!) but I don't think anyone can argue that VC-1 is superior - AVC is equally as good and in fact even a high percentage of HD-DVD titles are encoded in AVC (VC-1 and AVC are both MPEG-4).

If Sony continues to produce Casino Royale grade releases then afficionados of all formats will buy Blu-ray exclusives - I know I have :-)

Like you lot, even HD-DVD 'fanboys' are only after quality - the thing that really pisses people off is when titles are rushed out with far less than perfect quality. I think this is part of the reason that Sony is doing this back-flip on Fifth Element - they saw people waiting for the European HD-DVD version purely on quality grounds.

This action (and this title) will definately have a significant pay-off for Sony in both the sales and PR areas. A great move by Sony - a pity it stands out when it should be the norm.


P.S. how does one distinguish between the old inferior version and the new superior release (ideally from the packaging)?!

I'm what some might label a HD-DVD 'fanboy' (which I'm not BTW!) but I don't think anyone can argue that VC-1 is superior - AVC is equally as good and in fact even a high percentage of HD-DVD titles are encoded in AVC (VC-1 and AVC are both MPEG-4).

If Sony continues to produce Casino Royale grade releases then afficionados of all formats will buy Blu-ray exclusives - I know I have :-)

Like you lot, even HD-DVD 'fanboys' are only after quality - the thing that really pisses people off is when titles are rushed out with far less than perfect quality. I think this is part of the reason that Sony is doing this back-flip on Fifth Element - they saw people waiting for the European HD-DVD version purely on quality grounds.

This action (and this title) will definately have a significant pay-off for Sony in both the sales and PR areas. A great move by Sony - a pity it stands out when it should be the norm.


P.S. how does one distinguish between the old inferior version and the new superior release (ideally from the packaging)?!

There will not be a EU release of this movie, it was a mistake on the website (as confirmed by Amir) - Sony own worldwide distribution rights for T5E.

I'm what some might label a HD-DVD 'fanboy' (which I'm not BTW!) but I don't think anyone can argue that VC-1 is superior - AVC is equally as good and in fact even a high percentage of HD-DVD titles are encoded in AVC (VC-1 and AVC are both MPEG-4).



What HD-DVD titles are encoded with AVC?

What HD-DVD titles are encoded with AVC?

All of the Weinstein & Co ones.

MS don't have time for them to VC-1, and Sony don't BD have replicator time for such a small studio.

They really did get the arse end of the deal, but they make pretty crap movies IMHO so who cares 'eh.

There will not be a EU release of this movie, it was a mistake on the website (as confirmed by Amir) - Sony own worldwide distribution rights for T5E.
Good, then Sony will have my money - does anyone have a release date yet for this new version?

All of the Weinstein & Co ones.

MS don't have time for them to VC-1, and Sony don't BD have replicator time for such a small studio.

They really did get the arse end of the deal, but they make pretty crap movies IMHO so who cares 'eh.

Ah, thanks Max.

Just picked up T5E at the Frys sell. There was a whole box full. Hopefully they're getting ready to put out the new prints.

I heard how bad it was. But wow. I thought my display was broken, it was dirty lacking detail with some color bleeding, Superbit is better. But the PCM track was sweet.

Why wouldn't it still happen?

Other than titles being pulled and delayed left and right, not much reason.

Hey, when is the new FE disc supposed to hit the streets?

Is it June yet?

Other than titles being pulled and delayed left and right, not much reason.

I didn't realize that Sony was pulling and delaying titles "left and right".

[QUOTE]I heard how bad it was. But wow. I thought my display was broken, it was dirty lacking detail with some color bleeding, Superbit is better. [QUOTE]

Not on my set.

There will not be a EU release of this movie, it was a mistake on the website (as confirmed by Amir) - Sony own worldwide distribution rights for T5E.

While the announcement of an HD DVD may have been a mistake, Sony does not own worldwide distribution rights for the movie. The movie was released on DVD in the UK by Pathe and in Germany by BMG, for example.

I think this has been discussed before and someone from Sony said House of Flying Daggers wasn't going to get a re-release, don't recall if this was because the source was the limiting factor, or not enough sales to justify it. At any rate it has an amazing audio track and I use it for demos regularly.

Not enough sales you can be sure on houe of FLying Daggers. OTOT, 5th Element sells well and the bad word of mouth will hurt its sales as the base of BD users grows... with a better transfer, the word of mouth gets better and it will again sell really well.

I think this has been discussed before and someone from Sony said House of Flying Daggers wasn't going to get a re-release, don't recall if this was because the source was the limiting factor, or not enough sales to justify it. At any rate it has an amazing audio track and I use it for demos regularly.IIRC, paidgeek (Sony Pictures) said House of Flying Daggers would not be re-released because the source was the limiting factor.

^Yeah, that is what I recall as well....too bad, a great movie. :(

IIRC, paidgeek (Sony Pictures) said House of Flying Daggers would not be re-released because the source was the limiting factor.

Hard to believe since it does not appear to have the resolution of a 35MM film :rolleyes:

- Rich

What HD-DVD titles are encoded with AVC?
The Interpreter is the only Universal title encoded with AVC.

Hard to believe since it does not appear to have the resolution of a 35MM filmI have not seen this movie and know nothing about the creation processed used to create this movie. IF there are several film generations* involved then it may not look very good. Some B movies I have watched have been some of the best presentations because they did not have the budget to do multi generation film. IMDB Info (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0385004/technical)

Who knows how their contracts are done. The only access Sony may have is to a release print.

*For a dissolve, wipe, softcut, etc. there will need to be TWO film sources feeding an optical recorder. These extra generations will increase the noise level and reduce the resolution.

I have not seen this movie and know nothing about the creation processed used to create this movie. IF there are several film generations* involved then it may not look very good. Some B movies I have watched have been some of the best presentations because they did not have the budget to do multi generation film. IMDB Info (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0385004/technical)

Who knows how their contracts are done. The only access Sony may have is to a release print.

*For a dissolve, wipe, softcut, etc. there will need to be TWO film sources feeding an optical recorder. These extra generations will increase the noise level and reduce the resolution.

You should see it. It is beautiful film. The detail is just not there. More bits please ;)

- Rich

Who knows how their contracts are done. The only access Sony may have is to a release print.



You have probably hit the nail on the head here.

Same goes for USA Sony releases of "Hero" "House of Flying Daggers" (and I fear "Curse of the Golden Flower"). These were taken from x generation prints and I think in many areas the R3 DVD re-issues are better.

I didn't realize that Sony was pulling and delaying titles "left and right".

A quick search brought up the following thread showing the below pulled titles.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=838176&highlight=sony+delays


* Alexander Revisited: The Final Cut (Warner)
* Commando (Fox)
* Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (Sony)
* The Da Vinci Code (Sony)
* Dances with Wolves (MGM)
* Dodgeball (Fox)
* Dude, Where's My Car? (MGM)
* The Fly (1986) (Fox)
* From Hell (Fox)
* Gattaca (Sony)
* Glory (Sony)
* Hannibal (MGM)
* Ice Age (Fox)
* Legends of the Fall (Sony)
* Marie Antoinette (Sony)
* Me, Myself & Irene (Fox)
* Meatballs (Sony)
* Mr. & Mrs. Smith (Fox)
* The Princess Bride (MGM)
* The Professionals (Sony)
* RoboCop (MGM)
* Sense and Sensibility (Sony)
* The Silence of the Lambs (MGM)
* The Thomas Crown Affair (1999) (MGM)
* Tristan & Isolde (Fox)
* Turistas (Fox)
* Winged Migration (Sony)

I own a PS3 and want to see this end soon but BD does have issues as well.

IIRC, paidgeek (Sony Pictures) said House of Flying Daggers would not be re-released because the source was the limiting factor.


i don't know what all the complaining is about, i have this movie on blu-ray love it. the drum scene is awesome as well as the the fight scene in the field with the flowers and the one at the end. i cant understand why time and time again this movie draws friendly fire.

thanks
anthony

You have probably hit the nail on the head here.

Same goes for USA Sony releases of "Hero" "House of Flying Daggers" (and I fear "Curse of the Golden Flower"). These were taken from x generation prints and I think in many areas the R3 DVD re-issues are better.
I think Wendell may have nailed it too.

BTW, I did see a trailer on the Volver or Prada BD of Curse of GF and it looked fantastic (to put it mildly). :)

I thought the image problems with HoFD were due to the DI. You could encode it in high bitrate vc-1 and it would still be soft.

Paidgeek said in the Insiders thread that he didn't believe any rerelease could benefit from teh techniques they used on TFE and some others IIRC. He indicated the problems are with the master, which is inherently soft.

Paidgeek said in the Insiders thread that he didn't believe any rerelease could benefit from teh techniques they used on TFE and some others IIRC. He indicated the problems are with the master, which is inherently soft.

I own it and I do not believe that. A film this carefully crafted was not filmed on super 8 :rolleyes:

Sure they could have chosen a crappy 20'th generation master so what? Get a better master. That was the excuse for the Fifth Element. Guess what, new master and a 50 gig disk. Miracles :p

- Rich

The remastered t5e is on amazon. Any official info on how to get an exchange? I bought a 2nd disk from amazon during the confusion about a remaster --- meaning I got 2 identical bad disks.

The remastered t5e is on amazon. Any official info on how to get an exchange? I bought a 2nd disk from amazon during the confusion about a remaster --- meaning I got 2 identical bad disks.


link please?

link please?


Here is the link:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QTD368/104-9528868-1169501

For some reason it won't work when I hyperlink.

If this fail just search Amazon for Fifth Element Remastered.

Edit: Fixed Link -- link didn't work because Amazon adds extra info to the url when you do a search -- sorry!

Your right. I just tried to put the link up and it won't work. Any how...it shows as a preorder.

The remastered t5e is on amazon. Any official info on how to get an exchange? No news yet. I believe Paidgeek stated Sony was not going to make an official announcement about the trade-in.

Try this link (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QTD368?tag=bluray-011-20). It's not just listed, it's up for preorder.

Don't know if this link works :
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000QTD368

It's #9 on the BD top seller list now.

I really want a good mastered copy of this title, but I can't imagine wny I would buy a 3rd BD copy of T5E. Ok, maybe if I have no choice, but I'd rather exchange one of my copies.

fao the guys working on this:
please make the disc region free like the current version. thanks.

For a few piecemeal pics of the cover art of The Fifth Element (Remastered Version) on Blu-ray, click on my sig below................... and proceed to the next to the last page of the thread.

Penton- can you post pic here. a password and login is required to see your B &W photo (which is now not on the last page.)

Are there extras on this or not?

Penton- can you post pic here. a password and login is required to see your B &W photo (which is now not on the last page.)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/Dinkins/SCREEN%20SHOTS/FE.jpg
.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/Dinkins/SCREEN%20SHOTS/FE1.jpg
.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/Dinkins/SCREEN%20SHOTS/FE2.jpg

Rats. Oh well, I'll buy it anyway.

Were there any special features on the first issue?

According to the scan it has PCM and TrueHD, very nice.. Now if I had money for surround this would be even better news :)

why on earth do people expect to get special features on the first double dip of a Blu-ray title?
For Pete's sake people, this thing is limited to only 50gb capacity, and you guys want extras to boot?!

Were there any special features on the first issue?

No, but there were some on the Ultimate Edition DVD. I was hoping they would include those this time, but it looks like they didn't.

PCM! :D :D :D What's on the original?

PCM! :D :D :D What's on the original?

PCM and it sounds very good. The image was only fair :eek:

- Rich

The original has 16bit PCM, the updated one has 20bit TrueHD and 16bit PCM.

Are there extras on this or not?
Click on my sig and proceed to the last page.

I just added another pic that is the only thing relevent on the back cover pertinent to your question.

Are there extras on this or not?
http://img467.imageshack.us/img467/1337/specialfeaturesde6.jpg

is there any defnitive date and address from sony for swap yet?

Specials? Sony should just pack in the 2nd disc from the 2-disc Superbit DVD as the specials. I already have that DVD release so am ambivalent on the whole specials deal, unless they were in HD. Just give us that glorious release. Having passed on the first one, I can't wait for this one.

Can we assume that this is going to be an H264/MPEG4 encode like the rest of the recent Sony releases.. I would hate to see another MPEG2 encode.

Why? There are plenty of great MPEG2 encodes out there, from Crank to Kingdom of Heaven... VC1 HDDVD encodes of the likes of MI3, Sahara, Ghost Bride, and Aeon Flux have not shown a measurable improvement over their MPEG2 counterparts on Blu-ray...