Panasonic DMR-EZ17K DVD Player/Recorder [Text View]

ramrom

04-15-07, 07:45 AM

I received this Panasonic DVD Recorder yesterday from Circuit City (about $200) and have a few notes:

1. Tuning in digital channels is pretty good, picks up everything in central Iowa (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, WB, and a couple others) and I'm 60 miles from the towers (with an outdoor UHF-only antenna). Same as my Sony HDTV.

2. Channel changes are a couple seconds for digital, about the same as my TV.

3. It does pass DD5.1 to my receiver for tuning in OTA networks and DVDs. Has Dolby Digital and DTS.

4. PROBLEM - It appears to have an issue with 16:9 and progressive. When I set to progressive, it won't display widescreen. My HDTV thinks it is getting a 4:3 signal in 480p and so it squishes the program 16:9 OTA program into a 4:3 box. Does the same thing to anamorphic DVDs. When set to 16:9 480i, everything looks fine. This is over component cables (only way to pass 480p on this unit, no HDMI). I emailed Panasonic, we'll see what they say. In the meantime, I'll reset it and try again. When you set it to 4:3, either 480i or 480p, you can choose to P&S or letterbox. This appears to work OK. Of course, on my 16:9 TV, the 4:3 signal is already pillarboxed.

5. Haven't played with recording yet. Went to get DVD-RAM last night, Walmart didn't have any. Supposedly, only 16:9 recording on DVD-RAM. I have some DVD-RWs, so will try that today and see how it works. From the manual, I'm a little worried that on DVD-R or DVD-RW that it will simply squish 16:9 into 4:3, rather than P&S it. Anyway, we'll find out.

6. Unit is supposed to be able to record and watch a show off the same disk at the same time. Also supposed to be able to record and watch the same show (skip commercials type of thing) when you start watching after about 20-30 seconds. That is what I'll try today with the DVD-RW.

TimSH

04-15-07, 08:19 AM

Bill1313

04-15-07, 10:17 AM

Also I would check the manual because all older Panny's with the "Time Slip" features only worked when using DVD-RAM discs so don't be surprised if it doesn't work with your DVD-RW discs.

Also I'd be interested to see if you can "Pause" a recording when recording in the "FR" record mode & how well DL discs work for Timer Recordings" over 2 hours at the "SP" mode. Thanks.

PS: Seeing it's getting hard to find any DVD-RAM discs around SHAME ON YOU PANASONIC FOR NOT INCLUDING AT LEAST ONE IN THE BOX !!!!!!!

RichBenn

04-15-07, 10:49 AM

DanielCard

04-15-07, 11:03 AM

Would be nice if you could post some screen shots.

Thanks,
Daniel

arciervo

04-15-07, 01:06 PM

The DMR-EZ17,27,37,47 recorders are based on the LSI Domino chip. Therefore, their lineage is from the DMR-ES20 and DMR-ES40V.

Ron

From looking at the EZ17 manual, it appears that you have to turn off the unit in order to have scheduled recordings work properly (just like old VCRs). Since the ES20 apparently behaved the same way, I'm wondering if it's due to the LSI chip.

One thing I really like about my ES15 is the fact that I can leave it turned on. In my VCR days, I often missed important recordings simply because I forgot to turn off the unit ahead of time.

IMHO, Panasonic has taken a big step backwards in this area.

Tony

nextoo

04-15-07, 01:22 PM

From looking at the EZ17 manual, it appears that you have to turn off the unit in order to have scheduled recordings work properly (just like old VCRs). Since the ES20 apparently behaved the same way, I'm wondering if it's due to the LSI chip.

One thing I really like about my ES15 is the fact that I can leave it turned on. In my VCR days, I often missed important recordings simply because I forgot to turn off the unit ahead of time.

IMHO, Panasonic has taken a big step backwards in this area.

Tony

I can offer that it is not the LSI chipset. The Polaroid 2001G has an LSI chipset and does not have to be powered off for timer recordings.

ramrom

04-15-07, 05:04 PM

I can confirm a couple things:

1. I recorded a 16:9 OTA high definition show on DVD-RW (with the recorder set for a 16:9 TV and 480i. It does squish it to 4:3, but leaves everything there. So I can manually on my TV stretch it back out and it looks normal. Based on the manual, this is kind of what I expected it to do. I still don't have a DVD-RAM to try, but according to the manual, that should record 16:9 (it's over an hour to the nearest Best Buy or similar place). Should pick one up tomorrow after work (don't ask how far I drive to work).

2. The timeslip stuff will only work with DVD-RAM, so not able to try anything out yet.

3. Don't have DL disk, so can't check that out either. For +R DL, supposed to work good, -R DL leaves a gap.

I'm not going to run out to Circuit City and exchange it either (to try to fix the 16:9 480p problem), as the nearest one is in the Twin Cities, about 3.5 hours away. But if I need to, I'll be doing that (have family there, so not total waste). I'll wait to here from Panasonic. If the 480p issue gets resolved, I would be really happy with it.

For those who care, this does have fewer features than my 4 year old JVC DVD player. Like no zoom and less information about the DVD being played (no bitrate data, etc).

HomeVideoGuy

04-17-07, 11:07 AM

I recently purchased the EZ17K from Amazon and installed it this weekend. I only wanted a basic DVD recorder and wanted to be able to record from the digital tuner. I live in New Orleans, with relatively easy TV reception, so I hooked it up to my indoor Zenith Silver Sensor antenna and immediately tuned in all available digital broadcasts with 90% or better reception (My NBC affiliate ceased broadcasting it's digital signal after Katrina).

I only have it hooked up to a 4:3 analog TV so I set it to 4:3 480i output. After a couple of test recordings to DVD-R, I am extremely pleased with its reception quality, recording quality and ease of setup and use.

Being my first foray into digital TV broadcasts (I have 4 other analog DVD recorders) I am a little confused at how it is handling 4:3 vs 16:9 material. It seems to be converting everything into a letterbox format. Widescreen shows are the full width of my TV screen with black bars at the top & bottom of the screen like I would have expected. However, 4:3 material has black bars on each side of the screen as well on most but not all channels. Is this normal? Does it have anything with how they are encoding it at the station? And, most of all, since it is downconverting the digital HD signal to analog for recording, is it actually recording my shows like this or just displaying them like this? I haven't tried playing the recordings on another player just yet.

PS. Why couldn't they just tune in the digital SD sub-channel and record that to disc similar to how DirecTivo's just save the digital DirecTV feed to disc?

TimSH

04-17-07, 11:24 AM

Why couldn't they just tune in the digital SD sub-channel and record that to disc similar to how DirecTivo's just save the digital DirecTV feed to disc?

Because such a thing may not (probably doesn't) exist and even if it did, there's no way for the device to know about it.

For example, in my area NBC has 2 digital channels. 3.1 and 3.2. 3.1 is the HD channel, 3.2 is 24 hour weather. CBS has a similar setup. Fox has only one HD channel. ABC has only 1 channel. an SD digital subchannel doesn't exist. And why would it? Anything with a digital tuner can display it at 480i anyway. It would be a massive waste of bandwidth.

jtbell

04-17-07, 11:33 AM

However, 4:3 material has black bars on each side of the screen as well on most but not all channels. Is this normal? Does it have anything with how they are encoding it at the station?

The station is upconverting SD programming to HD by interpolating extra pixels in the image, and adding blank bars on both sides to fill out the 16:9 frame. They do this because it's not possible to switch the broadcast signal between SD and HD "on the fly." Because it's physically a HD signal, your recorder handles it like any other HD signal, by letterboxing it.

And, most of all, since it is downconverting the digital HD signal to analog for recording, is it actually recording my shows like this or just displaying them like this? I haven't tried playing the recordings on another player just yet.

I can't answer that because I don't have the unit in question to check for myself.

PS. Why couldn't they just tune in the digital SD sub-channel and record that to disc similar to how DirecTivo's just save the digital DirecTV feed to disc?

Not all broadcast stations send out both HD and SD digital signals with the same material. In my nearest city (Greenville SC), only two out of seven stations do this. If you do have both signals available on different subchannels, it's up to you to pick the one that you want to record.

Look in your manual to see if there is an option to "zoom" an HD signal so as to fill the screen vertically and crop off the side panels to maintain the proper aspect ratio.

HomeVideoGuy

04-17-07, 12:52 PM

Thanks Guys!

People have asked in the HTPC forum about recording the SD subchannel using an HD tuner card in a PC. Guess I assumed it was always there. The Panny only tuned in one subchannel (The Worship Network on ION, formerly PAX TV).

I suspected it was the station encoding the 4:3 material with black bars on the sides. Will have to keep checking for a way to get it full screen. Have read thru the manual 3 times and been looking around the menu screens. However, I am more than happy to be able to record widescreen material in letterbox format vs full screen on my cable.

ramrom

04-22-07, 07:35 AM

So has anyone else tried this unit with a 16:9 TV in the 480p mode to see if it properly switches between 16:9 and 4:3 programming? A couple other people have used in on 4:3 TVs and it works fine, but I'm wondering whether my unit is defective or if all of them have the same problem (where when set to 480i, it will switch to widescreen for 16:9 OTA or DVDs, but send 16:9 programming squished to 4:3 in 480p). Any experience with the other DMR-EZ series models on this issue (like the model with the VCR or one's with HDMI output)? Thanks.

theiceman

04-25-07, 01:01 PM

Does the ez17 tuner have qam? Has anyone tried to pick up unscrambled cable channels?

ramrom

04-27-07, 08:08 PM

I finally got some DVD-RAM to use in this recorder (Panasonic w/o cartridge). Couldn't find any at Staples, RadioShack, or Best Buy; ordered online. Couple comments:

1. It does record 16:9 content in 16:9 format with DVD-RAM, so plays back correctly. So high definition widescreen primetime shows are recorded and play back as expected. On DVD-R/RW, I have to manually restretch widescreen recordings with the TV aspect ratio settings.

2. Chasing playback works fine with DVD-RAM. So you can be recording something and watch something else on the disc at the same time, or the same show you are recording. Things like pausing, fast forwarding, and 30 second skip work fine.

Still haven't heard back from Panasonic on the issue with 16:9 480p settings not displaying widescreen material correctly (it wants to squish the 16:9 stuff to 4:3, it is not pan&scanned or cropped in any way, so I can manually stretch it out with the TV; but then 4:3 source material is also stretched wide). So anyone have a 16:9 TV and tried this yet? Thanks.

HomeVideoGuy

05-02-07, 11:24 AM

theiceman

05-02-07, 11:48 AM

Just picked up the ez17 at Target and thought I would give some impressions.

Pros:
1. It does have a qam tuner and picks up unscrambled cable channels - even though Panny Customer service said it didn't
2. Very fast digital tuner - 1 sec or less
3. Displays current and next program on OTA digital channels
4. Good Picture
5. Universal remote will control several tv's

Cons
1. Remote has to be dead on to work
2. Archaic display on front of box
3. When surfing with the tuner, it changes channels in order regardless of Analog or Digital (ex. 2,3,3-1,3-2,4,5,5-1 etc.) Can't just scan the digital or analog and you surf local analog, then same in digital. May be a positive for you but I like to scan the digital channels first. Would like to be able to program local HD channels to pick up instead of analog while surfing.
4. Limited connections on back of box (Compared to the LG dr787t)
5. No HDMI

Been trying the LG for a couple of weeks and believe I am going to stick with that. Hope this helps someone.

ramrom

05-05-07, 08:05 AM

ramrom

05-05-07, 08:15 AM

A couple comments on Iceman's post:

Pretty much share your comments, but the channel surfing comment is a bit off base from what most people might want or expect. Not all channels are in digital yet, so it would make sense to just scan through them in order. I've manually deleted most of the analog channels if there is a corresponding digital one so I don't have to surf through both. Nice part about that, is if there is an analog channel 13 and a digital 13.1, if you delete "13" you only have to type "13" in and it will take you to 13.1 digital. My sony HDTV won't do that, you have to still type in 13.1. Other than this, my Sony HDTV surfs exactly the same 5, 5.1, 8.1, 8.2, 11, etc. if I haven't deleted them out.

I've also never understood the big deal about having HDMI out on a DVD player/recorder or "upscaling". First, none of the new ATSC DVD recorders actually outputs high definition, even over HDMI. They downscale it to standard definition, and then upscale it back out the HDMI. As far as a standard DVD player, who cares whether the TV or the DVD player modifies the image to fit the native resolution of the TV, so what's the point of an "upscaled" image out of the DVD player. The TV will just upscale the standard 480p signal itself if it needs to.

Maybe, and a big maybe, at least with the ATSC DVD recorders the signal might stay all digital, from high definition reception, downscaled to 480p, and upscaled back to high definition out the HDMI. So it might be slightly better than going out the component where it is converted to analog.

Jason1975

05-05-07, 09:27 AM

I am having the same problems with my unit. I have had several instances where the unit did not record my program. Often when this happens, the unit is stuck in the ready record state several hours later. It looks like it thinks it is recording, but the record timer is still at 00:00. I have to hit the stop button and tell it that yes I want to cancel the recording, even though there is nothing there. Also had an instance of manually recording and setting the timer for 1 hour recording; everything looked like it was working when I went to sleep. When I woke up the next morning, the unit was locked up and nothing on the disk.

Generally when it starts having a problem or locks up, I unplug the unit and plug it back in and the problem goes away... for a few timed recordings.

I called Panasonic twice and they were of no help. The first time, I had reset the unit before I called and they told me that there was nothing that they could do if we could not replicate the problem. So that night it happened again. I called Panasonic again... The unit was locked up so they helped me to reset the unit (by unplugging it). They suggested that I could have caused it with a bad disc, hitting too many buttons at once or recording copywrited materials. Well, the disc I was using worked before and after the fault, It usually happens while I am sleeping, and I am recording PBS channels at night, so I don't believe that any of these are the cause. He then told me that I could request service on the unit and send it in to them. He had no answer about whether anyone else had the same problem.

Jason1975

05-05-07, 11:26 AM

I am checking into whether the timing problem is media related. I do not recall having the problem when I had a DVD-RAM in (or DVD+R for that matter). I have primarily been using Sony DVD+RW disks... Any one know of problems with Sony DVD+RW disks?

tomanystraydogs

05-05-07, 12:10 PM

I am having the same problems with my unit. I have had several instances where the unit did not record my program.

Same thing with my ES20.

I only used DVD-RAM.

Would happen about 10% of the time, just enough that could not trust it and had to babysit things I really wanted to be sure it would record.

wolcott

05-05-07, 06:59 PM

It happened last night to me first time with my DMR-ES15. No matter what I did (and I tried everything) it would not record or allow me to format the DVD-Ram. It just stayed as if I was not trying to do anything. Finally I unplugged it, and when I plugged it back in it was like a new player, but by then the program was half over. Luckily the program is on again later this week, and I will have to record it "live" and pray it works. Thanks for letting me know that I am not the only one this is happening to. My DMR-ES10 never did this!

wajo

05-05-07, 08:40 PM

tomanystraydogs

05-05-07, 11:22 PM

Got a EZ27 to replace my dead ES20

BB had 2 of them.

Hooked up to my cable, no box.

Analog channel scan took a couple of minutes.

Then it went to digital channel scan. Took about 10 minutes.

Found a bunch of new channels and duplicates of existing channels (but with better picture).

For example, my regular SPIKE looks like poo, but the digital spike on my analog tv looks great.

I will report back later, have no way of knowing where each new channel is, have to start taking notes.

tomanystraydogs

05-05-07, 11:23 PM

Oh, changing channels on the digital ones takes about 2.5 seconds, regular channels about 1 second.

tomanystraydogs

05-05-07, 11:35 PM

Does the ez17 tuner have qam? Has anyone tried to pick up unscrambled cable channels?

I think the EZ17 has the same tuner as my EZ27.

Yes I picked up a bunch of digital channels. No STB, Time Warner (formerly Adelphia) here in Riverside, CA.

tomanystraydogs

05-06-07, 03:31 AM

One thing that really sucks, to delete a channel you have to go into setup.

It is a royal PITA.

Too bad since there is a delete button right on the remote.

HomeVideoGuy

05-07-07, 03:48 PM

I am setting my clock manually and have DST set to off. I am using Sony DVD-R's. Have not tried other media as Sony seems to be the most reliable in my other recorders.

I would say it misses or messes up my recordings closer to 50% of the time. Way too unreliable to be sure I record my shows. Actually once is enough.

At first it only happened on my ABC affiliate, so I thought it may have been ABC but then I started noticing problems with other recordings too. I was able to get it to work most times by using FR mode, which is OK with me but would like to eventually use DVD-DLs in LP mode for weekly recording. Just not always reliable.

I had to shut power off on my house this weekend (for other reasons but same as unplugging the EZ17K). Will see what happens this week.

HomeVideoGuy

05-07-07, 03:52 PM

BTW - When the EZ17K loses power, it stores your record schedule, but the clock flashed 12:00 A until you reset it. My PBS station is not broadcasting the time so I can't Auto Set the time. Great engineering Panasonic!

Jason1975

05-10-07, 09:01 PM

A simple thing to test with the Panny units with record problems:

1. Set clock manually.
2. Turn DST OFF.

If that helps, you can try turning auto-clock on again (if that's the way you like to run the clock) but keep DST OFF.

Thanks!! I didn't have auto clock on as it never worked. I turned off the DST on Sunday and have not had one problem since... I hope that this was the fix.

hokiewolf

05-11-07, 01:42 AM

I think the EZ17 has the same tuner as my EZ27.

Yes I picked up a bunch of digital channels. No STB, Time Warner (formerly Adelphia) here in Riverside, CA.

Do any of the digital channels have extremely long subchannel numbers? In Hampton Roads, VA, Cox puts the local affiliates' HD signals on subchannels like 106.33557 and 106.33558. I have read that a lot of people with older model DVD recorders cannot input these channel numbers due to number of digits in the subchannel and thus are unable to record these HD broadcasts.

Danny

tomanystraydogs

05-11-07, 02:46 AM

The longest ones I know of are like this:

105-910

that is the most alphanumeric characters I can enter so I hope there's not more out there

HomeVideoGuy

05-11-07, 09:57 AM

Planet HDTV

05-12-07, 08:19 PM

Remote has to be dead on to work
Check the owners manual, there is a 30 degree window in which it will work. Also make sure your batteries are in good shape.

No HDMI
There isn't ANY manufacture that is offering HDMI in a entry level unit. You'll need to move up one model to the EZ27 for HDMI :)

wajo

05-12-07, 08:25 PM

Well, I thought I had the timer problem licked after pulling the power last weekend. I already had the clock set to manual set and DST to off. It recorded fine all week in FR mode; until last night. To date, after a month of use, it will not record Ugly Betty on ABC although it recorded ABC on Tuesday and Wednesday night. Could this be ABC?
Some WAGs:

Are you timer recording anything else before or after Ugly Betty, but maybe nothing before or after the Tue./Wed. programs?

I'm also a little supsicious of the FR mode with discs, unless you're starting with a blank disc...may not be calculating space correctly? With -R/-RW, "border zones" between multiple recordings might be causing problems with space calculation???

Have you tried a +R to see if any diff.? +R needs less space for border zones.

Mike99

05-14-07, 01:44 AM

Is anyone else using the EZ17K for timer recording? While I am still very pleased with the unit for OTA reception and recording quality. I have been finding the timer to be somewhat hit or miss. Some of my settings don't record at all. Some record half or most of my setting and stop. The other night it said it ran out of disc space (in FR mode no less!) yet the whole recording was there. Last week, it somehow condensed Ugly Betty down to a half hour!?!

Could this be a problem with my unit or somehow with the digital channels? I sure wish I could depend on the timer. My older analog DVD recorders are pretty much 100% reliable in this regard.

I've had the same FR mode problem a couple times with my Panny ES20 where it said out of space yet the whole recording was there. I'm presuming the recorder is using typical bit rates based on the length of the recording. But if the program happen to use more than typical, then the disc just plain ran out of room. At least the program gets recorded, even it is missing only a few seconds which may not be noticeable. I usually add an extra minute or two to the end of the timer just to be sure I catch the end of the program.

HomeVideoGuy

05-15-07, 09:46 AM

Some WAGs:

Are you timer recording anything else before or after Ugly Betty, but maybe nothing before or after the Tue./Wed. programs?

I'm also a little supsicious of the FR mode with discs, unless you're starting with a blank disc...may not be calculating space correctly? With -R/-RW, "border zones" between multiple recordings might be causing problems with space calculation???

Have you tried a +R to see if any diff.? +R needs less space for border zones.

Hey,

No. Each night I put a new blank disc in to record, typically a networks entire line up that night. In other words, I set the timer from 7pm -9pm (give or take) on Wednesday night on ABC to record their entire sitcom lineup that night. I had no luck recording in any other mode but FR but that may have just been my limited test recordings so far. It did miss ABCs Wednesday lineup a couple of weeks ago and I forgot, as I mentioned above, it did attempt to record Ugly Betty one week but somehow condensed my recording to a half hour. I did not watch the entire disc, but my recording started 5 min before the show and ended 5 min into Grey's Anatomy.

I have not tried +R in it yet as I have had the best luck with Sony -R discs in my other recorders. Luckily I have other recorders to use and was testing this one for acquiring multiple units for OTA use. So far, between the timer and audio issues (see this thread) (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=847142) I am not sure I can even use this one much less feel good about purchasing more.

timhkennedy

06-07-07, 10:45 AM

Does anyone know of anyway to manually add a station to the DMR EZ17 recorder. The auto tune feature misses stations that my outside antenna is not pointed at. and I have been unable to find a way to manually add them. It will not even allow you enter the station with the remote while surfing. If auto tune doesn't tune it in, then it does not exist in the eyes of the units . If I go back and realign the antenna and rescan in then it loses stations from the other direction. Here in eastern NC I have stations in every direction. I called Panasonic and they said no you could not,but it was clear the CSR was only looking through a manual and probably knew less about the unit than I did. Of course you have no problems deleting a station as I did with the 10 duplicate PBS stations. Which by the way thumbs up to PBS as all their stuff is broadcast in proper format no pillar boxing there. You either get a full 4X3 or full wide screen. Thanks in advance for the help

L David Matheny

06-07-07, 07:23 PM

timhkennedy

06-08-07, 03:10 PM

Have tied entering 8-1 which I tuned I tuned in the beginning, but lost after doing another auto tune. Get the message channel not available

L David Matheny

06-11-07, 02:15 AM

Have tied entering 8-1 which I tuned I tuned in the beginning, but lost after doing another auto tune. Get the message channel not available
Where are you? And what are the station's call letters?

IUnknown

06-12-07, 09:47 PM

I am thinking about buying one of these for my Dad. Not quite sure whether it will work for his need. The main advantage would be the OTA digital vs his current Analog. He would use it with a 4:3 TV via S-video.

He is most interested in sports for immediate playback or slightly time shfited. He uses his VCR for this now which has obvious limitations in today's digital world. He is almost 90 but I think he could get the hang of time shifting. I think he has had the same tape in the VCR for about three years.

I have a few basic questions which might help me understand if this would work for him:

1) Can you use the same DVD-RAM over and over for an "unlimited" time? Again no wish to save anything more than a few days (maybe a few hours).

2) Sounds like the limit for recording time is 2:00 MAXIMUM. Is this understanding correct? Football is longer than 2:00 hours but...he could still keep his VCR. WIth his TV low quality is fine.

3) Does closed captioning work on recorded/live OTA ?

I will also review the manual but a few practical answers from a user would be helpful.

Bill1313

06-12-07, 10:41 PM

1. You are suposed to be able to record over on a RAM discs up to 100,000 times.

2. The EZ17 Recording Modes (Speeds) Are:
XP = 1 Hour
SP = 2 Hours
LP = 4 Hours
EP = Can Be Set To Either 6 Hours or 8 Hours

3. Close Caption Recording "NO"

You can select from any of the Recording Speeds (Modes) above but most people will tell you to not use anything above the 4 Hour Mode & I agree.

The Panny's also have a "Flexible Recording" Mode which lets you select the time that you want the recording to be which is really handy if you want to record a 2 Hour & 20 Minute Movie because the SP 2 Hour Mode is not long enough & the 4 Hour Mode is going to leave you with a lot of leftover space on the disc & it will be at the lower picture quality so instead you can enter the 2 Hours & 20 Minutes in the "Flexible Recording" Mode & you end up with the DVD filled up & recorded at the Best Possible Picture Quality.

All of the Recording Modes including "Flexible Recording" can also be used with "Timer Recordings" & they are pretty much entered just like you would enter them on a VCR.

The other thing I would add is that a few years back I gave my daughter a Panny DVD Recorder & it din't take her very long to figure it out so I would say if he can operate a VCR he won't have a hard time learning to use the Panny & in fact my daughter thought it was a lot easier to understand & use than a VCR. Remember no rewinding & etc with dvd's :)

foxfan

06-13-07, 12:05 AM

So does the EZ17 have the same problem as the EZ27 (losing the center-channel/dialog content when downconverting from 5.1 to 2.0) or is it OK?

DonB2

06-13-07, 03:40 PM

Yikes! I am reading way too many failed time recordings on this thread and not so many on the added VCR version of this recorder.

I agree that one failed recording is one too many . In particular when it was a keeper show.

-Donb2

jamtime

06-13-07, 07:04 PM

I bought this unit yesterday and I'm very disappointed in it's recording capabilities. I don't need the tuner as I have DirecTV and I'm only using to record programs off my tivo. I've been unable to get more than 4 or 5 hours recording on a disc. In the Setup, you can choose between EP recording to be either 6 or 8 hours, and I've tried both. Before recording, I set the Rec Mode feature to toggle to EP mode and in the display I get the correct recording time available, either 6 or 8 hours. After recording (3) 30 minute shows, the disc will show correctly the amount of time remaining. But then after recording a 2+ hour show, the remaining time left on the disc will be less than an hour, sometimes only a couple of minutes. I tried forcing a recording beyond the announced time, but it won't allow it. I've used both -R and +R discs with almost identical results. I'll be returning this unit.

Kelson

06-13-07, 09:39 PM

^^
You are really asking for too much from the recorder -- or any DVD recorder for that matter. You really can't put more than 4 hr of recording on a DVD and have something that is watchable. EP mode (6 & 8 hr) on a DVD recorder is a worthless recording mode that was put there for marketing purposes to make it seem comparable to a VCR which could record EP 6hr on T-120 tape and EP 8hr on T-160. The bitrate and resolution is so low on EP mode that the picture is garbage and worse than EP mode on tape.

On another note, in general, the recording time displayed is an estimate based on disk capacity and an assumed average bitrate for a particular recording mode. Depending on the source and the mode, the actual recording time may vary one way or the other. If the source is complex to encode it will require a higher bitrate than this assumed average which means your actual recording time will be less than the estimate.

The Panasonic is a very good unit. If you return it for the reasons you stated, don't bother buying another DVDR. They all do the same or worse.

jamtime

06-13-07, 10:02 PM

I understand what you are saying, and, maybe I am asking too much, but, if a manufacturer such as Panasanic, advertises that one of their units has a recording capabilities of up to 6 or 8 hours, and it turns out that it does not, then people should know. Perhaps this is the standard for most players on the market these days. However, I have had a Zenith DVR413 for over 2 years now that records up to 6 hours in EP mode. The quality is equal to the standard definition quality I get from my tivo unit, and still superior to tape, and that's all I require at this time. I was just looking for another unit that had similar features and quality.

DonB2

06-14-07, 02:10 PM

Kelson,

I am getting confused. Are you saying that if I record a 2hr show off a Tivo or even off the ATSC tuner in EP mode that the resultant DVD that I record on may take up more than 2 hrs time on that DVD?

What if I was recording analog NTSC? Come to think of it isn't analog what Jamtime is getting off the Tivo?

-DonB2

Kelson

06-14-07, 03:17 PM

XP and SP are usually right on because the bitrate is high enough. LP is also pretty good. When you get to EP, the bitrate is so low the encoder is straining. Since Panasonic uses VBR -- to allocate more bits to complex scenes and less to passive scenes -- you may not get a full 6hr of recording time if the program source is complex. At any rate, 6hr EP is going to look like crap on anything other than a 9" TV.

DonB2

06-14-07, 03:41 PM

Kelson,

Thanks. That helps . I was just afraid that I was missing something.

As can be expected EP never looked good on my NTSC DVD recorder either.

-Donb2

joemama127

06-19-07, 03:54 PM

Please correct me if I'm wrong or missing something..(never had a dvd recorder) but..

I currently have an LG LST 3410a that is quickly going south...the dvd player still works great but the tuner has trouble keeping channels locked in (and other issues). I have been looking for a new ATSC/QAM box and this Panny DMR-EZ17K seems to have what I need with the bonus of a DVD recorder. Since it has a NTSC/ATSC and QAM then this will work fine as an all-around/HD tuner for a tunerless tv? I understand that recordings will be downconverted but I can get 720p/1080i from an HD channel either OTA or QAM with this unit...right?

HomeVideoGuy

06-20-07, 10:00 AM

dv13

06-20-07, 11:52 AM

joemama127

06-20-07, 11:53 AM

To answer your question quickly: No. It downrez's the HD to record and on it's outputs. It can't be used as an HD tuner. The 27/47's will upscale via their HDMI output but still not passthru the full HD signal.That's a shame...I can understand the recording being downrezzed but why does it do that for regular tv watching? Guess I'll go with a Samsung DTB-H260F and then maybe pair it with a dvd recorder/dvr later.

dv13

06-22-07, 02:10 AM

txjohnr

06-23-07, 04:56 PM

Question:
I read page 10 on the manual and it says that for DL -r it divides and image and sound may be lost, but DL+R does not divide, but may pause in playback.

So my question is, if I use DL +R disk, then I won't lose ANY image or sound in recording, right? it will just pause in playback..is that what it is saying?

Can anyone clarify this? Anyone recorded on a DL +R yet and can tell me if there is ANY loss of image or sound? thanks..t

I recently purchased the EZ17K and have mixed feelings about it. Not sure if I should return it or not. On the good side, I've NEVER had any audio problems with it (no missing dialog on 5.1 downmixed recordings) and the recording quality is pretty damn good.

On the negative side, the recorder seems to have issues with DVD-R DL (dual layer) discs. I did try a couple of Verbatim DVD-R DL discs and the recorder was incapable of finalizing the discs. Upon trying, I'd get an error message saying "Finalization failed." They won't play back anywhere else now. Panasonic didn't have any good ideas as to why it did that. I managed to extract the video from the disc with my PC, but that was a pain in the butt. But what Panasonic said in the manual is true. There IS a gap where the layer change is. Probably about a three second loss of content.

I did have success with a DVD+R (dual layer) disc, however. It finalized, but took FOREVER to do so. I haven't noticed any gap during playback at the layer change, but i have not extracted the video with my PC to confirm that is the case.

DVD+RW works great, haven't tried DVD-RW or DVD-RAM yet.

One problem I do have with the machine is the "INPUT LEVEL" control in the "BLACK LEVEL CONTROL" in the "VIDEO" section of the "SETUP" menu. The setting only allows for a "Darker" or "Lighter" setting, which I hate. The original signal I want to record looks so much better and this recorder won't let me pass it through unaltered. I've tested it and it records either "darker" or "lighter" than the original. Its either too dark or washed out looking in comparison. In my opinion. But maybe I'm being nitpicky. Anyone know how to disable that setting?

Thanks,
John R

VinnieS

09-10-07, 05:43 AM

4. PROBLEM - It appears to have an issue with 16:9 and progressive. When I set to progressive, it won't display widescreen. My HDTV thinks it is getting a 4:3 signal in 480p and so it squishes the program 16:9 OTA program into a 4:3 box. Does the same thing to anamorphic DVDs. When set to 16:9 480i, everything looks fine. This is over component cables (only way to pass 480p on this unit, no HDMI). I emailed Panasonic, we'll see what they say. In the meantime, I'll reset it and try again. When you set it to 4:3, either 480i or 480p, you can choose to P&S or letterbox. This appears to work OK. Of course, on my 16:9 TV, the 4:3 signal is already pillarboxed.

Thanks for the info.. late to the party as usual.

I just got the EZ47, and I immediately noticed that when playing back Commercial DVD's and DivX files, it seems the screen is cut off top, bottom, and sides. I have a Component-only WS RPTV, and the player is set to 480p. I've switched it to 480i in mid-play, and it seems to have no effect- stuff is still cut off, like a too-wide picture frame. Edges of subtitles missing- you get the picture.

Anyway, there doesn't seem to be any mention of this anywhere here, or throughout the GoogleVerse. Any insight?

JWLaRue

10-15-07, 10:27 PM

...just picked up an EZ17K and have a connection question that perhaps someone can help me with....

What I would like to do is to use the EZ17 to record content from the DVR.

My cable provider is Verizon FiOS, which means that I have a Motorola QiP6xxx series STB (it's actually a DVR with a 160GB hdd). I connected the DVR to the EZ17 via s-video and the l/r audio connections. The EZ17 was then connected to my display via component out and the l/r audio.

As long as the EZ17 is turned on, the DVR output is passed through to the display. If the EZ17 is turned off.....no display (or sound).

Is there a different way to do this so that I do not need to leave the EZ17 turned on at all times?

-tnx,

Jeff

p.s. related question: is possible to take the l/r audio out and split it so that it goes to two different places? (I think the Motorola DVR sends video out of all outputs simultaneously) That would possibly allow me to still directly connect the DVR to the display as well as have an alternate path from DVR to EZ17 to display. This would allow me to still watch high-def. :)

Mr. Hanky

10-16-07, 12:39 AM

If your tv has multiple inputs, you should probably consider rewiring your setup so that the dvr goes to one input of the tv and the ez17 goes to another input on the tv. Then you can select which to view (whichever one is active, as well) more readily. Hopefully the dvr has multiple outputs using different connections? (hdmi, component, s-video, composite, etc) So, if the dvr is connected to the tv using hdmi or component, then you can also connect to the ez17 using the available s-video or composite, for example.

So most of the time you can monitor your tv from the direct feed from the dvr. The ez17 can be on or off, and it won't make a difference. Then if you want to record something on the ez17, you can turn it on, and it will have its own independent connection to the dvr. If you want to view what is going on with the ez17 while it is on, then you simply select the other input on your tv (whichever one the ez17 is connected).

EDIT: Yes, you will probably need to split the audio from the dvr. It should work fine...but maybe you can get lucky and not have to do this if the dvr has a digital audio output (hdmi or spdif)? Then you can use that to connect to the tv or stereo amp (if it supports it).

Hope this made sense.

JWLaRue

10-16-07, 09:58 PM

Definitely makes sense.

Running two paths would be my preference. It looks like both the DVR and the display have HDMI, so that would free up the l/r audio out (RCA terminals) from the DVR to be used to connect to the EZ17.

Just need to buy a HDMI cable to test this out. :)

-many thanks,

Jeff

JWLaRue

12-02-07, 03:05 PM

...beginning to track down a problem recording HD content from the Verizon DVR to the EZ17.....

I have been successfully recording material from the DVR to the EZ17 for several weeks now. To date, all recordings on the DVR have been SD broadcasts. The DVR is connected to the EZ17 via S-video and the EZ17 is connected to the dispaly via component.

Today, I wanted to record a saved HD broadcast, however when the HD material is viewed I see some sort of vertical alignment problem. The bottom couple of lines are displayed at the top of the screen....then there is a thin black bar beneath those couple of lines....then the bulk of the picture itself.

(I should note that for regular viewing, the DVR is connected to the display via HDMI. When viewing recorded HD material, it is displayed correctly)

Right now I am uncertain as to whether this is a DVR or EZ17 problem.

Anyone have suggestions as to what might correct this?

-many thanks,

Jeff

jjeff

12-02-07, 08:44 PM

Please bear with me on this one, it may get a little long/complicated. I had posted this "workaround" for the chronic "missing timer programs" on another thread, but I believe it should have been in this one, since it specifically relates to the EZ-17. Here goes.

If you use WEEKLY timer schedules this pertains to you.
I will use an example to explain what circumstances will leed to a "failed" timer recording.

Lets say you have set up a timer recording for WEEKLY monday 7-9pm SP mode, also WEEKLY tuesday 7-9pm SP mode, and finally WEEKLY wed. 7-9pm SP mode(note times, channels, and disc type do not effect the outcome, speeds do indirectly if the disc gets mostly filled up, with insifficent time to record the next event).

You put in a blank disc sometime before mondays event, and power machine off. Monday's event will record just fine. NOW is the important part, if you change the disc(since it filled up after monday's event) BEFORE midnight monday, tuesday's event(and every event after that) will NOT record. UNLESS you power up/down the DVDR sometime tuesday(before the tuesday's event). Now if you were to have replaced the full disc anytime tuesday(before the event), tuesday's event would also record just fine. Also note if you power up the machine DURING tuesdays failed event(that is you notice it is not recording) and turn it on, and then power it off, it will start recording from the point AFTER you turn the DVDR off.

This "bug" only seems to be effected by WEEKLY sceduled events, since they do not "drop" of the list in the schedule. The machine keeps looking at monday's event until after midnight, that's why you must turn on/off the unit sometime tuesday. I think it somehow resets things. Just speculating?

I personally use WEEKLY events ALL the time(to save entering the event back in the schedule) I have about 9 shows that are on once a week, every week, so this "bug" effects me BIG time. I was missing events ALL the time before figuring out what was happening. NO previous Panny's that I have had, have this "bug" including ES-10, ES-25, and ES-30. Only this EZ series DVDR.

Note this "bug" also only happens if after say monday's event, the disc does not have enough space on it to record tuesday's event. If you are in the habbit of turning your machine on(for whatever reason) before the next event, you probably have not noticed this "bug". As for me I almost always fill up each disc with each seperate event, and was in the habbit of swapping out the disc right after the event is over, and never turn the machine back on, until after the next event, I always ran into this bug. You see I only record with this unit, and play back on my Sony up converting dvd player.

I hope I've explained this problem well enough to save someone else missed timer recordings. Since implamenting powering up machine EVERY morning, then turning right off, I have yet to miss a event. Note MANY calls to Panny to correct this "bug" with a firmware patch, have fallen on DEAF ears!!!
They dont even admit anyone is even having problems with missed timer events! I guess the don't read forums like this one.....

Note one more work around, you can also just unplug/replug the DVDR from the wall tuesday(in example) and that will reset things. I personally think it is easier to just power up/down the unit. I've toyed with the idea of putting the DVDR on a wall timer to interupt the power for 1 min. every morning, but have not done this yet.

On another note, I personally think it sucks, that this Panny has to be OFF to start a scheduled event. What a step BACKWARDS for Panasonic. Note if anyone else has figured out workarounds for this bug, or other scenerios in which this unit failed to record, please post those events.

HomeVideoGuy

12-03-07, 10:45 AM

jjeff - Just following you to this thread. I have been thinking about my experiences with this "bug" and while I think the same basic thing happens to me occasionally, I think my EZ17 may be acting a little differently.

Twice during the Summer, it failed to record Flash Gordon on Friday night. This would have been the last recording on the disc for the week, filling the disc, and I had not changed the disc since Sunday, for the week, and all previous scheduled recordings worked. I too thought it may have had something to do with copy protection, however, I was able to record those missed episodes early the next week, earlier on the disc for that week, and it recorded. Partly b/c of that I lost interest and stopped recording FG.

When the Fall season started, it once again missed a repeat airing of K-Ville on Fox, Friday night, same time slot that would have been the final recording, filling that disc for the week. Again, I had not changed discs since Sunday and all other previous recordings for that week recorded as scheduled. I thought, could there possibly be something with that time slot?

The last time this happened to me was Halloween week. I decided to take advantage of the lineup on TCM and interrupted my normal weekly scheduled recording by adding some one time scheduled recordings to the timer. This time, it missed my weekly scheculed recording of Reaper on The CW, but this time on a fresh disc. Still not seeing the pattern, I assumed it may have been a bad disc as maybe ever 1 out of 100 of my Sony DVD-Rs are spit out by my Samsungs for no obvious reason.

The only reason I am wondering if we are both observing the same "bug" is that I have gotten the anomoly you described quite a few times when changing the disc immediately after a schedule recording occured. I don't recall it always happening but sometimes the last scheduled (weekly) recording is moved to the end of the list and still shows as if it needs to record it although it has already passed as you described. I haven't paid close attention, but I seem to remember powering it off and back on clearing that problem right then. At any rate, this has happened many times w/o my missing the next nights "Weekly" scheduled recording. I confirmed that, as mentioned, when this occured last Wednesday night, while I don't recall if cycling the power cleared the listing, it did not prevent my newly added Thursday night "Weekly" scheduled recording from recording nor my Saturday "Weekly" from filling the disc in FR mode.

One other interesting thing I have noticed sometimes, is that while I intend to fit 4 hour long weekly scheduled recordings on a single disc in LP, it will sometimes only say "OK" by the first 3 and not the 4th; even if I have it set to FR mode. I haven't figured that out yet and have been scared to chance the 4th recording just in case it "thinks" there is not enough room. It should FR mode the 4th recording to something just slightly less than LP mode as I set my recordings for an extra 5 minutes ( 3 before - 2 after the recording) and the unit otherwise consistently shows 46 min left in LP mode after the first 3 recordings.

Anyway, thanks for your sharing your experiences with the "bug". I will try to pay more attention to mine when it does this in the future. I would be curious if anyone else has unknowingly experienced any timer recording anomolies.

Kelson

12-03-07, 11:43 AM

On another note, I personally think it sucks, that this Panny has to be OFF to start a scheduled event. What a step BACKWARDS for Panasonic. Note if anyone else has figured out workarounds for this bug, or other scenerios in which this unit failed to record, please post those events.I have seen others complain about this. With the EZ-17 and RAM you are supposed to be able to watch one recording while the unit is recording another program. Does this mean that if you are watching a title recorded on the disk, say 5-10 minutes before the start of another recording event, that the EZ17 will not start the scheduled recording?

Mr. Hanky

12-03-07, 11:59 AM

I don't think it will start a new event while you have it on and playing something else (as it certainly won't start a scheduled recording even if it is "on" and just sitting there doing nothing). The only real question left is, will it put some sort of message on the screen when it gets close to the timed event to remind you that a scheduled recording is coming up and that you should shut off your recorder.

jjeff

12-03-07, 06:01 PM

I'm sorry I dont really use RAM discs that much, I just used one of several of my "freebie's" that came with my previous Panny's. They cheaped out on the EZ series, and don't include them anymore!(friendly jab). You see when I called Panasonic about there bug, the first thing they said is "are you using Panasonic discs?, you'd probably not have the problem if you used Panasonic discs" What crap!, I never use Panny discs, not that I have a problem with them, I just get better deals on spindles of other "name brand" discs. So that's the only time I used RAM discs, and yes, the bug still happened with the Panny discs. I know on previous Panny's if I were playing a recordable disc when a timer recording was coming up, the unit would display something on the screen warning me it was going to start recording a event a few min. before the event. Good question though, I wonder if this Panny warns you to turn off the machine to start the event.

On HVG's point I hope everyone else is not as confused about my post, as I was reading yours. Sorry I know when a person knows something well themselves, it's hard to convay your point to others, especially with technical things in writing. Let me try and give you a brief test to show you the bug first hand. It happens all the time.

1. program timer for 2 weekly events. One for say tuesday 5-6pm , then the next day for say wedensday 5-6pm. Use the XP mode to fill up the disc. Insert a empty -rw disc(or whatever you want, I'd chose rw so you dont waste the disc)
2. Turn off the machine sometime before the first event.
3. Sometime after the first event finished recording, BUT before midnight, reformat the disc so it has room for the next event, and turn off the machine.
4. Now this is the most important part. Do NOT turn the machine back on before the next event. I know this might be hard to do, espically if you want to use the machine to play a disc or whatever, but do NOT turn it back on. It will ruin the test.

You should notice if you are by the machine when the 2nd recording is supposed to start, it will not start. In fact as I have noted, it will not record any other events that are further down your list either. If you are by the maching and notice it is not recording, try this. Turn the power on to the DVDR. It will power up as normal. After it has finished powering up, simply power it off. If this is during the failed event time, the second you turn it off, it will start the recording!
It's what I call a "bug" and I cant believe Panasonic hasnt fixed it yet.

P.S. HVG, I reread your post before submiting this reply and have another point for you. On the 4 1hr events, with the last one being in FR, I have never seen it give a ! after the forth event. It should be no problem recording that forth event in FR. As you said it should be in say fr4.3 as I would say. I will experiment with this, and let you know.

But back to the test, I cant stress enough, if you turn the machine on, or even power cycle it the day of the 2nd event, the test will fail, and the 2nd event will record.

Mr. Hanky

12-03-07, 09:47 PM

I just noticed this behavior on my ez-17, as well. A recurring program is set for M-F, and the early morning instance went off fine, early today. When I got home today, I was sure to read the display before touching it (I have the display set to dim, instead of auto, so I can get some sort of status on it w/o even turning it on). I noticed the little red clock symbol was no longer enabled. I imagine if I had just let it sit until the next program time arrived, it would miss the recording. So I turned it on and then turned it off (waiting for it to catch up with each command, of course). Sure enough, the red clock reappeared. So I am confident it will make tomorrow's recording, as scheduled.

So I guess this means this thing is cursed with not being fully self-automated beyond 1 scheduled recording?! That's kind of a pisser. It doesn't really affect my own use patterns (I'll be around to power cycle it every day if need be), but I can imagine this peculiarity being a real pain for somebody else who simply expects reliable vcr scheduling performance w/o having to babysit the thing.

Luckily, I paid $150 for this thing. Strangely, the current price for this model has gone back to $199 since then. I would not recommend this model at $199. Such a basic thing should damn well be ironed out at $199. Panasonic- Get on it! You're embarrassing yourself.

Mike99

12-04-07, 02:47 AM

You might do a search for ES20 bugs as several people were having scheduled recurring program glitches with that model when it came out. These may be the same or similar to what is currently happening with the EZ17. Perhaps reviewing these older threads will provide some help in giving workarounds.

I have both an ES20 & EZ17. I too had some problems with the ES20 when experimenting & trying to duplicate other's problems. I don't recall if I could duplicate all the problems though. But there were problems back then too. If the new recorders are still having problems doing any kind of a timer recording, them shame on Panasonic.

For my own use, I do not normally record the same program on a repeating basis. I frequently do multiple separate scheduled timer recordings, with the last one typically set to FR mode, and to date both machines have not missed a recording.

jjeff

12-04-07, 08:08 AM

Just a quick(I guess very few of my posts are quick, but I'll try and be brief), update. I was intregied by Kelson's question about watching a RAM disc, when a scheduled timer event was going to start. So I did a test. I programed a event, then watched something that was on a RAM disc, it had more than enough open room for that next event. On the EZ17 the start time of that event came and went, with no warning to turn it off or anything!!! Just kept playing the RAM disc, NO recording. THAT STINKS. No warning?? come on Panny fix these bugs. Oh one more thing, and I was sure I would know the outcome of this next test, but I wanted to see it anyway. Still during the time that the previous event should have been recording, I stopped the current playing RAM disc. Still no record(kinda thought much), but again just as I thought, the second that I powered down the unit, walla, it started to record the event! Am I a mind reader or what!

So in the mood for more testing, I tired the exact thing in my es-25 panny. On this unit there was also no warning about a comming event, but 1 min. before the event, the playing stoped, the maching went to the correct channel of the event, the machine went to Pause record mode, and at the scheduled time it started recording. While it was recording I was indeed able to go back to Direct Navigator and continue watching my test program. Now that's acceptable. The more I play around with this EZ-17, the more bugs we find!

I'm also in the middle of testing HVG's thought, that maby just turning off/back on/off the unit right after swapping out the disc, the day of the first event, will enable the recorder to record the next event. I'm not too confident though, since after doing that, if I then went back into the schedule list, the date is still listed to the right of the last weekly event that was recorded, and there is a ! next to the next event at the top of the list. And as you know, if I have a blank disc loaded it should not be a ! but rather the date of that next weekly event.

I will let you know the results of that test sometime after 2pm today, when it (should) record that next event. Otherwise it is back to power cycling the unit every morning!

As much as I knock this unit, and all it's bugs, someone else might just say to dump this unit and go back to the es-25. As good as that sounds, I really like the PQ of this unit recording on HD OTA channels, I love the WS, and think I'll learn how to live with it's bugs, but I do hope Panasonic is listening....

jjeff

12-04-07, 04:22 PM

HVG,
Well just as I thought. I got home from work at 2:30pm, unit should have been recording my test, but alas it was NOT recording. I powered unit on, waited a minute, powered it off, and it started recording from that point on! So to answer your question, no, power cycling the unit the same day will not work. It HAS to be after midnight.

HomeVideoGuy

12-04-07, 05:05 PM

Sorry jjeff!

I had a bad feeling after reading your posts this morning. I realize that must be how it is working for you. But I SWEAR it hasn't kept me from continuing to record my weekly scheduled timer settings after changing the disc. I believe we are basically having the same problem but mine seems to have more trouble filling the disc with multiple recordings. Seems I have read something about this with another DVD recorder and that poster just did not set his final recording to fill the disc. Maybe that is more my problem? Sorry if my earlier post was confusing. I was trying to describe the scenario I had been seeing but I try to quickly key things in rather than go into detail. I believe we are basically having the same problem with the timer.

I don't know how much experimenting I will do but I will try to pay more attention to what is going on in the future. Maybe it is my computer support background but I feel like as long as I can work with it then it is better to not question why.

I'll also have to take note of the other anomoly I mentioned. I find it hard to believe my unit is so perfect; especially when it had the other VSS and DST bugs out of the box. One other detail I remembered was that I believe the front display shows 0 min left in LP mode after the 3 consecutive recordings yet when I chickened out and went to finalize the disc it showed 46 min remaining in LP mode. That's how I figured it was a glitch but I did not want to trust it.

wajo

12-04-07, 05:33 PM

Homevideoguy, Dare I say it... could it be the DST bug affecting one unit and not the other. Yours is still off, I assume, and DST/clock problems affect a whole gob of things in a DVDR???

Just sayin'....

Mr. Hanky

12-04-07, 05:37 PM

I don't know if you guys have your outer display set to "auto" or "dim/bright", but the latter setting might be useful to give you some feedback on what it is about to do, w/o actually powering it up (and thus affecting the behavior by doing so). Just keep an eye on if that red clock symbol is enabled or not when it successfully initiates or fails to initiate a scheduled recording.

jjeff

12-04-07, 05:55 PM

jjeff

12-04-07, 06:05 PM

wajo

12-04-07, 06:12 PM

Wabjxo, I will try turning off dst and also off auto clock set. I have them both on. I will report my findings tommarow.
Mr. Hanky, I do have my display set to "bright" and in this case, at least, the little red lock is no indication that it will record. In all failed events it has been on.I know on my previous ES-30 I used that little red clock for that exact purpose.
Funny thing, I bet at least 1/2 of my recorded event on this EZ have been test recordings......I'm gonna wear the thing out just testing. Oh well if it helps...
Checking this Panny site (http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/DSThelp.asp), they say the EZ17 is programmed for the new DST rules. Worth a try anyway... might be what you're connected to that has a screwed up DST calendar/clock???

Mr. Hanky

12-04-07, 07:00 PM

Mr. Hanky, I do have my display set to "bright" and in this case, at least, the little red lock is no indication that it will record. In all failed events it has been on.I know on my previous ES-30 I used that little red clock for that exact purpose.

Ok- good to know, then...and disconcerting! :o ...can't even trust the red clock?! wtf?

rgazzara

12-05-07, 08:58 AM

I have seen others complain about this. With the EZ-17 and RAM you are supposed to be able to watch one recording while the unit is recording another program. Does this mean that if you are watching a title recorded on the disk, say 5-10 minutes before the start of another recording event, that the EZ17 will not start the scheduled recording?

Kelson (and others), a quick read of the EZ-17 manual decribes the process for using a DVD-RAM disc to watch a program while recording another program. To do this you need to be FIRST recording a program, and THEN begin watching the second program. Nowhere does it say that you can FIRST watch a program, and THEN either manually start a recording or begin a timer recording.

Those trying to watch and then record are looking for functionality that is NOT available on the EZ-17, and is NOT mentioned in the manual.

I checked the ES-15 manual, and the same procedure is mentioned -- FIRST record, THEN watch.

There is a difference, however, in the procedure for setting up a scheduled timer recording. On the ES-15, there is NO need to turn off the recorder before the scheduled recording; it will begin even if the recorder is on, unlike the EZ17, on which (as it is plainly stated in the manual) the recorder must be OFF before the scheduled recording is set to begin.

HomeVideoGuy

12-05-07, 09:47 AM

I too have my display set to bright, factory setting, so I can see what is going on. As I mentioned with my bug, the display reports 0 time left when the finalize menu shows the appropriate time left, so not much help there. I know that amount of time should be left, but if some small part of it doesn't think so... It has only happened a few times, when recording my entire weeks schedule to one disc, not when recording a single event in FR mode.

Also, with the missed timer settings, the little red icon is no indication there either. I think the EZ17 truly believes it has something to record, it just doesn't record it. I seem to recall checking my scheduled recordings to see why these recordings failed and seeing what jjeff described - that event is moved to the bottom of the list, as it should be, but still indicates that days date and OK instead of the next weeks date and !. Unfortunately, it would seem my similarities with jjeff may end there since seeing this when changing the disc right after a scheduled weekly recording does not seem to be preventing me from recording the remainder of my scheduled recordings. Mine seems to be clearing this up on it's own, perhaps after midnight? And yes, I do still have DST set to off and clock set to manual. That may make some difference.

I am glad jjeff brought this to my attention. Although it has happened to me, it was so infrequent, I just blamed it on other things. I guess with my computer background, I am just glad all things digital work right most of the time, and I think it is more because of cost cutting and a lack of adequate testing on their part for us budget minded Americans. I would rather pay twice as much for something tested to work all of the time.

Kelson

12-05-07, 12:02 PM

Kelson (and others), a quick read of the EZ-17 manual decribes the process for using a DVD-RAM disc to watch a program while recording another program. To do this you need to be FIRST recording a program, and THEN begin watching the second program. Nowhere does it say that you can FIRST watch a program, and THEN either manually start a recording or begin a timer recording.

Those trying to watch and then record are looking for functionality that is NOT available on the EZ-17, and is NOT mentioned in the manual.

I checked the ES-15 manual, and the same procedure is mentioned -- FIRST record, THEN watch.

There is a difference, however, in the procedure for setting up a scheduled timer recording. On the ES-15, there is NO need to turn off the recorder before the scheduled recording; it will begin even if the recorder is on, unlike the EZ17, on which (as it is plainly stated in the manual) the recorder must be OFF before the scheduled recording is set to begin.Thanks RG,
Well, one can't really fault them if they have the operation correctly documented in the manual. One could be unhappy with the limitation, and I would be, but it's not like they are trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. Too bad though, I do this sort of thing with my E-85 all the time and never have to worry about it not starting a recording session while I'm watching another. Looks like Panasonic has a few issues to iron out with these models before the release of Gen-II -- that is, if there is a gen-II forthcoming.

Mr. Hanky

12-05-07, 01:04 PM

jjeff

12-05-07, 04:34 PM

Well I'm back....maby I should just start a blog......but I hope I'm helping nail this thing down.
My latest 2-3pm test recording also failed. This time I had turned OFF the DST, and also OFF the auto clock set. Oh well, worth a try. Unless someone else has something to try, I think I'll just live with powering up/down the unit every morning before a scheduled recording. What can I say, it works for me.

On Rgazzara's point I agree with all except. On the test of my es-25(es-15 with hdmi out) I did NOT have to power down machine to have a scheduled RAM disc start recording. As mentioned during play, it automatically stopped play, and started recording. I only had to push play to start the program back playing, while it continued to record the scheduled event. I understand the manule might say otherwise(again for a es-15) but it did work for me.

Mr. Hanky, I have sumized that the little red clock is not a good indication if the unit is going to record a event or not. Case in point, after my first test recording last night 7-8:30 pm in FR mode, disc was full, little red clock went out(as it should, disc was full and had no more room to record next event at 2-3 pm next day) I reformatted the -RW disc for the next test event. Went into schedule list and incorrectly(as I know) there on the bottom of the list was the event that just recorded, and it had a date next to it. INCORRECT. It should have had a date next to the item at the top of the list, my next test event for the following day, 2-3pm XP mode. It did should a ! next to that top event. So I guess I believe the !. If you see that, the machine will NOT record the next event, unless again you power cycle the machine sometime the next day, before the next event. Back to the red clock. After I turned the machine off the little red clock came on. Indicating it was good to go. In fact the little red clock was also on this morning(day of 2nd test recording). But as reported, the event did NOT record.

On another note, I noticed latley that someone dug up an old thread on the ES-20. I was reading it and noticed several people were having problem with that unit as far as timer recordings. I didnt read the whole thing, but some people also noticed odd things about how that unit handled the midnight change over as well as weekly events.
I was floored! It seems like Panasonic cant seem to get this thing fixed! Pitiful!! But on that note, I personally have NEVER missed a scheduled event on my es-25...Or es-30 as far as that's concerned. Maby I was just lucky.....

wajo

12-05-07, 04:42 PM

jjeff

12-05-07, 04:53 PM

Sorry, I thought of one more thing in reguard to the ! that I failed to include in my last post. Just to muddy the waters more, because we all like muddy water....The ! is not a total indication if event is going to record either. Case in point. I frequently schedule events for say 1 hr 1 min in XP(1hr speed) or 2hrs 1 min in SP(2hr speed). The absolute max in XP is 1hr and SP is 2hrs. Actually both speeds give about 30 seconds more, but not 1 minute. The reason I do this is just in cast the show runs a tiny bit over, I will still catch it. If after I program this type of event, I immediatly go into the schedule list, it will show a ! after that event. But in truth the unit WILL record that event, to a length of about 30 seconds longer than 1hr or 2hrs. In essance I've fully filled up the disc. But my point is that it DID record that event(all be it missing the last 30 seconds) So the ! is not a guarntee that the unit will at least start a event.
P.S. please dont ask me why I just dont use FR, and actually get 1hr 1 min., or 2hrs. 1 min.. It's just a personal thing. I like to use the pre-programed speeds when ever possible, but like to fill the disc to it's fullest.
I'll shut up for now.

jjeff

12-05-07, 04:58 PM

If by reset, you mean pushing channel up/down on the unit for 10 seconds to get back to factory defaults, sure I'll give it a whirl.
Since the writers strike has stopped all new programs, basically the only events I am recording are tests anyway.

wajo

12-05-07, 05:15 PM

Yes, factory defaults w/manual clock set and DST off on setup. IF it's related to DST ("Y2K7 Problem"), might work. Are you connected to a box?

Church AV Guy

12-05-07, 06:03 PM

I think the disconcerting bit to this kind of situation is when we witness the maker achieving a certain feature set/feature behavior in an earlier model (the ES family, in this case), but then seemingly take a step backwards in a newer model line that should at least be a peer caliber to the older model. It makes you wonder if they decided to needlessly start from square 1, again, (throwing out all of the positive details achieved in earlier work) or did they do this to deliberately gimp the product to make their higher product families stand-out more?
I used to watch this in horror when it happened year after year to my Mitsubishi VCRs. It seemd that every year they added new features, but took out others. I was not very intereted in the newer features, but I used some of the older ones all the time. It was as if they could only support so many features, so to add one, they had to remove another. Disconcerting and disappointing to say the least.

jjeff

12-05-07, 06:11 PM

Wabjxo,
If by "box" you are refering to any type of cable/satelite box, the answer is no. I am just a OTA guy.

Mr. Hanky

12-05-07, 07:02 PM

You know, it's just occurred to me that my ez17 seems to be recording a 2nd sequentially scheduled just fine all week. It all happens in the middle of the night, but if I was having the same problem that all of you are describing, I would be up in arms because the 2nd show should be missing on the disc (yet, it makes it onto the disc just fine). It's technically the 3rd program in the day where the red clock goes poof (yes, I realize that your red clocks are not behaving consistently). So my experience is slightly different than the rest of yours.

Allow me to explain more explicitly- my scheduled recordings for Tue were as follows:

DST off, manual clock set, fresh dvd+rw disc going into this process...

L2, M-F, 1:50 am - 2:45 am (55 min), EP (8 hr mode)
L2, M-F, 3:00 am - 8:30 am (5 hr, 30 min), EP (8 hr mode)

tuner, ea Tu, 9:00 pm - 10:00 pm (1 hr), SP

The 1st and 2nd seem to always trigger fine, but the red clock is missing by the 3rd. Now here's where it gets tricky (so my experiences may not have any relation to anything being discussed in this thread :o ). During the 2nd program, around 8:00 AM, I'll interrupt the recording using the stop button and confirm the alert prompt. I remove the disc and put a fresh dvd+rw (each time, pre-formatted and ready to go).

The machine sits idle until 8:30 AM, but still activated, after which I presume it shuts itself off (it's always off, by time I come home for the evening)- so technically, it has not been manually power-cycled even though I interrupted an ongoing program. When I come home, I notice the red clock is gone. If I do nothing, the 3rd recording will not trigger. If I power cycle it (usually swapping in a fresh dvd-ram disc, at this point, as well, if I did not do this in the morning when I interrupted the 2nd program), the red clock appears, and the recording does trigger at the scheduled time (contrary to all of your experiences, I acknowledge). The red clock has been consistently accurate as what the recorder is about to do, for me- I don't know why it is different from your experiences.

Maybe the recording speed has something to do with it? Maybe my interrupting the 2nd recording and swapping in a fresh disc has a bearing on how the 3rd program triggers (or not triggers)? Perhaps, if I intentionally shut it off after interrupting the 2nd program, that will enable the 3rd program to trigger properly? Maybe it isn't keeping track of when I have swapped in a fresh disc, in the middle of the process, so it thinks the disc is too full to trigger the 3rd recording, even though it is a fresh, empty disc?

Maybe these machines have a serious case of "butterfly effect"? ;)

Maybe the key at the center of all of these possibilities is the machine's ability to accurately reconcile how full or not full the disc is, and this ability can be influenced by the kind of disc media (-r,-rw,+r,+rw,-ram), how the dynamic directories are consolidated on-the-fly (based on the media type and the limitations of rw vs. r media), and if it has to do this from within a recording mode vs. just powered up and idle?

jjeff

12-05-07, 07:16 PM

Mr.Hanky, If I follow you, and I think I do, it sounds like there are MANY circamstances in which this EZ unit will not record an event. A person will only find out what circamstances it will not record, by a failed event! Pretty sad. As noted, SO far, my experience only involves WEEKLY events, which fill up the disc, and then the failed recording the NEXT or following days.

jjeff

12-05-07, 07:59 PM

Waxjbo, One last thing for the night...Promise, the kids are bugging to use the computer to play Webkinz!
I tried resetting my Panny via the channel up/down. While it did reset the clock to 12:00 flashing and erased all my channel lineup, I dont believe it TOTALLY reset the unit back to factory default. Let me explain. I have several Panny's and have set this unit up for Remote code 3, the factory default is 1. Well even after the reset it is still set for 3. Also I use Field instead of the default Auto, for pause mode. It stayed Field even after reset. And lastly I have setup EP record speed to be 6hrs, instead of factory default 8hrs. It stayed at 6hrs.
Also on the DST thing, I dont really see a option to turn it off. There is a DST on/off option, which I set to OFF, but a person could also read this as DST is off, and will be ON in the spring. It doesnt really say it turns off the Auto thing. And there is also no OFF for autoclock set. The only thing I did was to go under Manule time set, changed time by 1 min, then exited out of that screen. Again there was not a toggle as such that said autoclock on/off.
Anyway did these things and will post findings after 2pm CST time tommarow.

wajo

12-05-07, 08:18 PM

jjeff, I'll keep all 10 fingers crossed. Thanks for the effort to check this out. It does sound as if things didn't get totally reset. I think that's pull power, plug back in while holding power button, but not sure.

jjeff

12-06-07, 04:37 PM

Wabjxo, Sorry I didnt get your post in time to try the unpug/hold power on reset in time, but I do have some odd....comments on that.

Today's event did not record(I guess the 10 finger thing wasnt enough...) But what I did find out was interesting, in it's own right.

During the time that the recorder was supposed to be recording(but was not) I unplugged the unit, and I had a hunch, but had never tired it, I plugged the unit back in. Sure enough after about 30 seconds of disc action, it started to RECORD my event!

The other thing learned was about the reset you talked about. After I stopped my test event, I thought I'd try your reset(even though if it worked, it would mean I would have to reprogram the unit again!) I unplugged the unit for 1 min, then while holding down the power button, reconnected the power cable. After 10 seconds the display came back on at flashing 12:00,
This is where it got weird... I tried to turn on the unit with it's remote, and it said REC3, which means it must have reset it's remote back to 1, which I thought as good.....I figured it must have REALLY reset my Panny. But it gets even weirder... I took my remote code 1 remote, and it did indeed turn on my EZ unit, but after the 30 seconds it took for it to startup I took that same remote and tired to enter setup, and to my disbelief it said REC1!!(meaning the unit was back to remote code 3), Sooo I took it's remote, the remote code 3, and it worked. I entered the setup and just as before(with the channel up/down reset) the remote code was at 3, and several of my previous settings(different from default) were intact. I still had to reset the time, and all my channels though.:(

So what did I learn by this latet event.....As before I will just power down the machine every morning to be sure it records my weekly events. And as far as more testing, I think I'm gonna lay low with EZ unit. I have to spend time with my newest unit......I picked up a Philips 3575 today after work! If the PQ is as good as this Panny.......well, anyone interested in a Panny EZ-17?....Records most of the time......

Catch you on the 3575 thread!

jjeff

12-06-07, 06:32 PM

Kelson

12-06-07, 08:00 PM

One last thing, because I do like to be thorough. After the unplug/hold power button in/replug resetting, it did NOT erase my 5 events that I had in my program schedule.....So I believe I got a better reset by using the channel up/down reset method. Not ALL factory defaults, but as close as I know how. Maby someone else knows how to reset this unit to ALL factory defaults...
But as noted, I'm pretty much done playing around with this thing for now...I don't know where that unplug/hold power button procedure came from -- I never heard of that.

On a Panasonic, holding in the power button for 5 seconds will do a soft reset of the unit.

Press and hold the channel up/down buttons for 5 seconds to do a unit reset and clear TVGOS if you have it.

To initialize all parameters back to factory defaults (hard reset): With the unit OFF, press and hold "Skip Rev" (|<<) and "Time Slip" and "Open/Close" for 5 seconds. These would be the buttons on the DVDR front panel, not the remote. This returns the unit to the out-of-box state.

To eject a stuck disk if the unit won't operate (i.e. U99 error): With the unit OFF, press and hold "Power", "Stop" and "Channel Up" for 5 seconds.

To toggle the disk eject from "LOCK" to "UNLOCK": With the unit ON, press and hold "Power" and "Stop" for 5 seconds.

jjeff

12-07-07, 08:18 AM

sorry, couldnt stay away
Kelson,
Do you know for sure if the reset methods you mentioned work on the new EZ series Panasonic? I guess if you were unsure I would be willing to varify them.
It's funny about the u99 errors. If anyone has been following my posts....they would have read I have had to return 3 EZ machines due to u99 errors(after less than a month of use). The first one Ultimate Electronics tore the machine apart to get my -rw disc out. The 2nd 2 purchased at BB, they were going to charge me $20 to take it apart to get my $1.00 -rw discs out.....nedless to say the discs stayed in the machine. Also after many calls to Panasonic support, no other reset other than the ch up/down method was suggested....but I do seem to remember on my Panny es-30 dvdr, customer support did suggest something like Waxjo had me try, like holding in the power button, while plugging in the unit.
You'd think Panasonic support would get there act together.........
Let me know if you want me to varify the new reset things on my EZ unit.

Mr. Hanky

12-07-07, 11:47 AM

I have finally experienced the machine failing to activate even while the red clock indicator was on. :D The only thing I did differently this time was that I had literally filled the disc to the very end, prior to this. Then I deleted the single program, which would have left a completely blank disc ready for recording. Then I shut the machine off, with the red clock indicator enabled.

So maybe half the machine realized the disc has space to record (putting up the red clock indicator), and the other half of the machine still thinks the disc is still full (and disables the trigger for a new recording)?

EDIT: Upon further examination, it seems the 1st program did trigger, but the 2nd program didn't. Strange...

Kelson

12-07-07, 07:44 PM

jjeff

12-08-07, 09:14 AM

Kelson, I'm glad I tried(or tried) to try (god that sounds awful) your reset methods on my Panny EZ series DVR. As someone noted earlier in this thread, it's frusterating when a company decides to change certin feature sets in there product line. People get used to those features(even make recomendations to others) but they do not work on the there most recent product offerings. Here are my findings on your reset methods(which truthfully you DID only say worked for the Panny E-55 to the E-85 series).

I'm sorry, I'm very new to forums, and don't know how to "use quotes" like most everybody else. I've tried reading the forums FAQ's, but found nothing on this feature. So I will have to parafraze things. I'm also not the greatest speller, and cant figure out how to spell check my posts. So sorry again.:(

With unit ON I held the power button down for 5 seconds. All this really did was to turn OFF The EZ unit. Note I had several scheduled programs programmed in the unit at the time, and it should have displayed the "little red clock" but it did not. So I am going to assume....turning off the unit this way, will make the unit not record those events....just guessing. I also tried turning the unit ON (that is, it was in the off state) by holding the power button ON for 5 seconds. All this did was to turn the machine on. Nothing more, nothing less. By the way after this test I simply turned off the machine normally, and my "little red clock" came on. So I will again assume....the next event would have recorded(though with this EZ Panny one really NEVER!! knows if it will actually record a event:confused:) sorry couldnt resist...:D

On the reset via ch up/ch down for 5 seconds. It did as I have proven before, reset several things in the machine. The clock, cleared all programs in schedule, some setup options, but NOT all.

On what you said would be a hard reset on your E- units, that is "with unit off, press and hold Skip Rev and Time Slip...etc." There's one little problem with this......There's no "time slip" button on Panny's unit anymore. At least with the EZ series. I think maby it went went away with the HDD's?? I personally have never had a Panny with a "time slip" button on the unit(of cource I have never had a Panny with a HDD, oh many Panny's of various ages, but not one with a HDD) Safe to assume, scratch that reset method on EZ Panny's. Note of course all Panny's I know of, have a "time slip" button on the remote.

I'm still looking for a reset method to reset the EZ series Panny's to there "out of box state" if anyone knows of one.

On the method to eject a stuck disc, eg U99, I thought this would be really handy for me, since I've had several.:mad:...EZ's with this problem..;).. But also, this series of "with unit OFF, press and hold Power, Stop, and CH UP, for 5 seconds, also did NOTHING on my EZ Panny(note I did not have a stuck disc in machine, or a U99, but in a working machine(with a disc inserted) it did nothing).

Lastly on your method to LOCK eject(that is make it so unit will not eject a disc that is inside the unit), it DID work. Cool feature, never knew about it. I suppose a person could use it to, say keep someone from "steaing" a DVD that you had inside a machine. Probably handy for stores, that leave a DVD in a constant loop, advertizing something, or playing the newest DVD's. Although my guess is, that if stores bother to use a Panny for there display machine, they "probably" don't even know about this feature. I personally know I've never heard of it before. And I'm one of "those" types that likes to read a manual, cover to cover.

Finally for anyone interested in my latest DVR, the Philips 3575 w/HDD. I had really high hopes for this unit. I am tireing of this Panny EZ unit, and all it's quirks. Sadly I'll have to live with the EZ unit, until Panny comes up with a HDD digital tuner DVR. The reason is, at lease for ME, and this is only JMO, I don't think the PQ of the Philips even comes close to my Panny's(of any generation). Oh don't get me wrong, the Philips recording WS off of it's built in digital tuner may.... look better than SD recorded off any of my Panny's, but it is "my personal opinion"(and I'm one that really likes the PQ of Panny's) There is no comparison between the two. If I had to compare the 2, I'd say for every given speed(data transfer rate) the Panny PQ looked twice as good. That is, for the 1hr Philips speed, it looked like the Panny's 2hr speed. For the Philips 2hr speed, it looked like the Panny's 4hr speed, etc. etc. Note 4? yrs. ago when I was researching DVDR's to replace my VCR, I spend several weeks buying, then returning units(Lite-on's, Centrios, Sony, LG, Pioneer). It was back then, and seems to be the case now(although this Philips is the only non Panny machine I had tried since my tests 4? yrs ago) I am destand to a life of Panny's, and all there quirks. After all PQ is my most important "feature":)

jjeff

12-08-07, 12:43 PM

WOW, just when you think it couldnt get any weirder....
After trying Kelson's tips for resetting Panny's, I was in the room with the EZ unit, it was off. Then all of the sudden, buy itself, it turned on, went into direct navigator, and started playing the first title on the inserted disc!! I stopped play and turned machine off. 10 min later it came back on, did the same as before, but this time during play, it started to change Scan speeds, all by itself! It tried all the speeds for 5 seconds each, then tired all the slow motion speeds, again all by itself.......I'm gonna guess that one of the button combinations that I had tried to reset the Panny, somehow got the unit into a DEMO???? mode??? Weirdest thing I've ever seen. Not sure which reset did this, but I thought my machine was "posesed".
Luckly the "old reliable" CH up/down at the same time for 5 seconds, put the Panny out of it's missory, and has been fine for the last 1/2 hr. Now I just have to reset all the damn channels/time/and some....of the defaults in the setup.
Good for a laugh though.:):):)

Mr. Hanky

12-08-07, 06:28 PM

Now, that is freaky! Are you sure the cat wasn't standing on the remote? :p

Mr. Hanky

12-08-07, 11:19 PM

Is there anyone out there who owns an ez17 and another hdd/dvd recorder? Have you tried burning a disc on the ez17 and then attempt to high-speed dub it when you put that disc in the hdd/dvd recorder? I'm just wondering if this is usually possible, or do additional factors come into play?

jjeff

12-09-07, 08:26 AM

Mr Hanky, I would have thought the kids were playing games, but I was the ONLY one in the house at the time. Very odd indeed, although after the last ch. up/down reset, all has been fine(at least as far as that problem).

I do have a EZ-17, and did try to copy a program recorded on the EZ-17 to my new Philips 3575 DVDR w/HDD, and even though a person cannot HS dub from DVD to HDD in the Philips, I real time copied the DVD to the HDD, then HS copied it back to another DVD, no problem. Don't know if that helps you? I've been told Pio. makes a unit than HS copy both ways. I guess to truely answer your question, you'd need someone with both a EZ-17, and one of those Pio's.

wajo

12-09-07, 08:40 AM

The Pio 53x/63x and 640 can HS copy any finalized, non-copy protected DVD to the HDD, but it's only a temporary copy for its Disc Backup function. It allows the HS copy to HDD, then allows you to make as many copies as you want automatically... you just insert discs as instructed in on-screen menus. The final discs come out ready to play, finalized and all. There just won't be any permanenent copy on the HDD to edit, etc.

Mr. Hanky

12-09-07, 04:18 PM

I'm just wondering if the "general rule" is that hs copying is typically only available from discs that the hdd/dvd recorder made originally, not just a disc made on any other machine (where there could be exceptions, of course). If it is from another machine, then the dvd needs to go through one realtime copying stage to hdd before that copy, in turn, can be used in a hs copy operation (as jjeff, described).

Mr.Panda

12-10-07, 04:12 PM

Hello,

There is a lot of excellent information on this thread about this product but I still have a couple of questions.

Panasonic says the Accutune tuner allows you to record on one channel while watching another.
I was told that this is was not possible on any DVD recorder.
What can you tell me?

This product is supposed to be able to record on channel one.
I would like to be able to do so for recording On Demand Etc.
Will this product record on channel one?

I was a bit concerned about using DVD RAM's in this machine due to compatibility issues with other players.
I record on Double Layer Disks and bet set to RAM.
All my disks play back on my Oppo which does not even support Dual Layer Disks.
Please explain?

Most appreciated,

Mr.Panda

Mr. Hanky

12-10-07, 04:35 PM

I've never tried out the function myself (I could be wrong on this), but I think they are just taking some liberty with the "record one channel while watching another" feature point. Afaik, all this amounts to on this unit is that when you connect the coax cable to it (from either an antenna or cable feed), you can record one thing with the built-in tuner, while tuning (probably analog only) to something else on your tv via the coax passthrough (essentially, just like a traditional vcr). There isn't anything like a "dual tuner" on the ez17.

I don't know on your 2nd Q, and I don't understand your 3rd Q.

Mr.Panda

12-10-07, 11:41 PM

Mr. Hanky

12-10-07, 11:56 PM

Well, I was able to dial-in "a" channel 1, and it went to a "channel 1". Naturally, it was all black for me, since I don't have On Demand. So I cannot really verify for you that a real station can be tuned there- just that it is physically possible to select that number.

Regarding dvd-ram's, recording dvd-ram on this machine should be playable on any other machine that is compatible with dvd-ram discs. I have observed nominal interoperability with dvd-ram between the ez17 and my Toshiba hdd/dvd recorder.

The catch you really need to find out is that not all machines are dvd-ram compatible. If there is nothing in the manual mentioning dvd-ram compatibility on the machine in question, then it likely will not be able to read it if you insert such a disc.

HomeVideoGuy

12-11-07, 11:38 AM

Hello,

I am afraid you are absolutely correct on this.
Panasonic is very unclear on this.
They say the Accutune tuner can perform this function.
It can not with out having a dual tuner.
Maybe I can hook up my system to perform this function by using my dual tuners in my TV someway.

As far as my second question,

Can this product tune in channel number one?
Can it find it when setting up initial Chanel scan or can I manually program it for channel one.
The Panasonic site says it can tune in Chanel one but I am not sure if it in fact can do so.
I called panasonic numerous times and they were unable to give me a definite answer.

In regards to question number three,
I think I might have posted in the wrong place.
Trying to find out if DVD Ram's recorded on this machine can play back on other players.
Such as oppo.

Many thanks,

Mr.Panda

Sorry for not trying to answer you sooner; internet problems. But...

1.) I don't recall reading about this feature but again, that is not what I use mine for. I don't know how it would work with only one tuner, unless you can somehow tune in something with both the analog and digital tuners seperately. But in my usage, I don't see how that is possible as I only get a list of analog and digital channels combined to scroll through. Besides, it only has one output, so how could you display two channels at once? It IS supposed to be able to record a channel while you watch a previous recording when using a DVD-RAM.

2.)Never tried, but even if it could tune channel 1, I can't see where that would help you. I can tune channel 1 on my TV but it is nothing; definitely not my (Cox's) PPV. Since the EZ17 does not have cable card much less the not yet available bi-directional cable card 2.0, I don't know how you would order PPV thru the EZ17. I order PPV thru the cable box and record thru the S-Video input on my EZ17.

3.) This would depend on if the other player supports DVD-RAM in the first place. If the Oppo even does, then it *should* play discs made on the EZ17. I would definitely check the appropriate thread for the player in question.

Mr.Panda

12-11-07, 12:19 PM

I would really like to take a moment to thank everyone who has replied to me.
I really appreciate this.
Have had nothing but unclear answers from Panasonic and other manufactures of DVD recorders as well.

Watching one channel and recording another is listed under product on Panasonic' site.
It does say the Accutne tuner performs this.
You might be correct that it has something to do with having an analog tuner and a digital tuner.
But I really do not see how this can work and I do not think this product has two seperate tuners.

As far as channel one goes.
Yes, after reading the replies on thsi I think it can see a channel one but do not see how this can help me.
Would set the recorder to record channel one and then hope that it would record what is cominhg out of my Comcast Box.
PPV channel that I subscribe to or free on demand programing.
Do not exactly know what cable card is or a bi-directional cable card but will look into this to see if this can help.

My Oppo does not support DVD RAM.
Just looked over my manual and called them some time ago.
This is why I mentioned that all my DL disks do play on my Oppo when I set Bit rate to RAM.
Will ask about this on the Oppo thread.

Was really looking for a Hard Drive/DVD recorder in the first place.
But was told that there really would not be any coming out in the future.
Hence, I went back to a DVD recorder.
LG has some Hard Drive recorders out now.
But after reading the thread on this site they really do not look very promising.

From everything I have learned, it really might be better for me to go back to using a VCR until everything goes to digital.
Can watch one channel while recording another,can tune in On Demand by going through default channel on my VCR and the only issue would be the seperior features of having a Hard Drive recorder or DVD's.

Most appreciated,

Mr.Panda

wajo

12-11-07, 12:25 PM

Mr Panda, if interested, check out the Philips DVDR3575H/37 w/160 GB HDD and NTSC/ATSC/QAM tuners. A very nice machine for $289.

Lots of info in this thread. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940657)

Mr.Panda

12-11-07, 12:35 PM

Thank you very much for reminding me of this.

There was something that would not work for me with this player.

Just remembered what it was.
Not Dual Layer disk compatible.
If I have this wrong,please let me know?

Called phillips about this and checked the manual.

Mr.Panda

wajo

12-11-07, 12:51 PM

Mr.Panda,
Plays dual layer but doesn't record to it.

HomeVideoGuy

12-11-07, 01:27 PM

My Oppo does not support DVD RAM.
Just looked over my manual and called them some time ago.
This is why I mentioned that all my DL disks do play on my Oppo when I set Bit rate to RAM.
Will ask about this on the Oppo thread.

DVD-RAM is a DVD variant invented by Panasonic before the DVD format was even standardized by the DVD Forum. As such, I would think, and from my experience seen, that if a player/recorder does not specifically state DVD-RAM read and/or write support, then it does not. Some companies besides Panasonic support it in their recorders; Samsung (used to OEM their first DVDRs from Panasonic), Toshiba and Sony (Read but no write). Players probably support it even less than recorders. Sometimes players/recorders offer limited support to unspecified disc types because they possibly designed their product around another manufacturers bare drive. The drive itself may recognize that disc type but the player/recorders firmware is not written to do anything with it. My Sansui DVD recorder/VHS combo deck is -R only. However, since they used a Pioneer bare DVD drive meant for PC use in their chassis, the drives firmware will recognize +R discs, allowing the Sansui to play those discs. However, Sansui's firmware for the overall unit was not written to record to +R; thus it won't do that. But unless Oppo used a bare drive that happens to support DVD-RAM ( hint, their cabinet looks alot like the current Pannies to me;))I would not count on it.

Again, as for PPV, it sounds like you already have a cable box, just use it and record to the EZ17 via S-Video. That's how I do it. The EZ17 DOES NOT support cable card nor will you be able to order PPV thru it. Even if it tunes in a channel 1 it won't be what you are hoping for. I am no expert on cable companies and PPV but their channel 1 is some digital interface on the cable box not a real channel 1.

HomeVideoGuy

12-11-07, 01:40 PM

...and I do not think this product has two seperate tuners.

Technically, it has three tuners. An analog tuner, an OTA digital tuner and a QAM digital tuner. It has been my experience, however, that they all act together as one logical tuner. Using mine for OTA reception, when I scroll thru the tuner, it goes thru the list of analog and digital channels in numerical order with no apparent way to isolate the tuners individually. Thus is displays and/or records what it is tuned into. You are supposed to be able to watch a recording on disc while recording from the tuner when using DVD-RAM. While I believe that works I have had no need to try that. If I understand your questioning of this, I still see no reason why you could not use this, or any, DVDR just like your VCR; only difference being media - tape vs. disc. Just set the EZ17 to record off your desired channel, hit TV/Video (I think it has that - I only timer record) and use your TV's tuner to watch something else. Unless you were wanting to record two shows at once, that would still work as with your VCR.

Mr.Panda

12-11-07, 02:10 PM

Absolutely outstanding information!

I see now that this machine can perform the functions as my VCR's.

The only difference being the media that is being used.

I just do not like the idea of having to use DVD Ram's for functions a Hard Drive recorder can do.
You are correct, I do not think my Oppo or any of my other players can play a RAM disk.
This sounds like some proprietary piece of Junk that Panny is pushing on us.
Sounds exactly like a couple of other manufacturer's I can think of.
I try to stay as far away from them as I can.

Time to take another very good look at the Philips Hard Drive/DVD recorder.

Many thanks,

Mr.Panda

Rammitinski

12-11-07, 02:34 PM

Was really looking for a Hard Drive/DVD recorder in the first place.
But was told that there really would not be any coming out in the future.
Hence, I went back to a DVD recorder.

From everything I have learned, it really might be better for me to go back to using a VCR until everything goes to digital.Another option: If you're using an external tuner and don't care about it having a built-in, digital one, you could also consider one of the international Panasonic or Pioneer models. They are region free and come with anywhere from 80GB to 400GB hard drives. The Pio has an NTSC M tuner which can be used here, but the Panny doesn't. They can be found at www.world-import.com and www.bhphotovideo.com.

People here who have gotten them have said they are excellent units.

Mr.Panda

12-11-07, 02:49 PM

Ha,

That is the other option I forgot about.

Not sure why I did not look into them again.

Maybe because I wanted at least one built in tuner.

Will look into these again as well as the Philips model.

Thank you,

Mr.Panda

Rammitinski

12-11-07, 03:57 PM

Also, there's the Magnavox H2080MV8 80GB model from Walmart. Smaller hard drive than the Philips, but closer to your Panny in price.

With either one, I'd try to get it from somewhere you can easily return or exchange it (Walmart and CC online should still be OK - you can always return it to any store). The digital tuners in these things are awful buggy and inconsistent. It sounds like the Magnavox is that way across the board, though, while the Philips is kind of hit or miss. Terrible quality control on these things, but I guess that includes all US-sold (at least) recorders in general now. It's a dirty shame, but if we keep buyin' 'em, they're gonna keep puttin' 'em out there.

When I compared the two first hand, I thought that the picture quality of the Maggie's tuner seemed maybe just a hair sharper and clearer. Could've just been my particular units, though. The Philips' was definitely more sensitive with digital and analog OTA. The Maggie hardly picked up any digital cable channels at all for me (Comcast) - not even ONE of the local 720p/1080i ones, where all of my other digital tuners do, but I haven't had a chance to try the Philips with cable yet.

The remote for the Maggie is truly awful, I must say. If you like to watch TV in the dark, and/or your eyesight is not 20/20, the Maggie's remote is not the one to have. Hopefully you'll have a good, learning remote already in your possession.

Also, Oppo's definitely do not play DVD-RAM. But it's not a bad thing to have in a recorder.

HomeVideoGuy

12-11-07, 04:13 PM

This sounds like some proprietary piece of Junk that Panny is pushing on us.

Actually, quite the opposite. Panasonic was one of the original developers of the DVD format. Early on in their research, they developed a disc format for the storage of data formatted in a similar fashion as a PC hard drive. Since the DVD format was still being developed, they marketed and sold these discs for storing data on a PC as the PD format; promising users that PD discs would be readable in future DVD drives when released. They would later finalize the format as DVD-RAM with both 2.6G and 5.2G discs. When the DVD-ROM format was finalized and 4.7G and 9.4G disc sizes agreed upon, Panasonic changed the capacity of DVD-RAM to those sizes and DVD-RAM was adopted by the DVD Forum as a data storage format variant of the DVD specifications.

DVD-RAM is random access and can be written to 100,000 times per disc. Unfortunately, it never really caught on, so the media prices did not fall as rapidly as other DVD discs; further hindering it's acceptance. It was all but dead until Panasonic supported it in their DVD recorders. Quite well suited for multiple writes, it is great for timeshifting on DVDRs that support it. Many here have multiple discs and record to them repeatedly, transferring those recordings to a PC for editing and later archiving to another DVD format. While still somewhat costly per disc initially, their ability to be recorded on so many times make them attractive for those with the right DVDR and a PC or the avid timeshifter.

Mr.Panda

12-11-07, 04:20 PM

Hello,

your advice is extremely appreciated.

Yes,

I forgot about the Mag. as well.
Did not look very promising when I looked into them before.

You are totally correct,

I really should purchase something,if I want a usable tuner,that I can return if not working properly.
Especially in regards to tuning channels.
Finding a Philips Etc. at a local retailer might be a bit problematic though.

What are the advantages of one of those "off shore" models over a standard US model?

I am really surprised that there are so many problems with these new machines compared to quality VCR's of the past.
But just by looking at current products and then opening the hood tells quite a lot.

Thank you,

Mr.Panda

Rammitinski

12-11-07, 04:41 PM

Well, in the past, Pioneers and Panasonics were usually much more reliable than something like a Philips or Magnavox. Those two were always rated very low for reliability.

But I'm really not all that sure now. If the international models are made in China now (and I think they are), who knows. But their company standards for their gear have always generally been better, and maybe that hasn't changed. I noticed that the Pannies do look a lot closer to last year's US design - and those were the last good models sold here.

They do have more features, more advanced editing features and larger hard drives, that I can say for sure. The Pio's have "TV Guide Plus", which is basically what TVGOS is called everywhere else. I'm not sure if it works here or not, though. Depends on if the feature is integrated so that it'll work through the NTSC tuner, I'd guess. That I'd like to know for myself. Maybe someone here who has one could answer that for sure. They also have a "jukebox" feature, where you can transfer your CD's to the hard drive.

Mr.Panda

12-11-07, 04:48 PM

Excellent points!

Any thoughts on the new LG models?

None of these machines are built like a good quality VCR of the past.

I have three or four Mitsubishi HSU 82's.

Thanks again,

Mr.Panda

Rammitinski

12-11-07, 05:03 PM

I'm not sure which LG DVR models you're referring to. The only ones I know of don't have hard drives. Speaking of LG's, though, I know that someone has just today stated that he wants to sell his LG 3410a HD DVR over in the 3410a thread in the hardware forum. Maybe you'd wanna check that out, since you're more interested in the DVR side of things than the DVD recorder one. I've got a Sony DHG-HDD500 HD DVR, and I wouldn't sell it for the world.

As far as the VCR part, you can still get pretty good s-vhs JVC models new, I know, but standard VCR quality has really gone down the crapper in the last 10 years. I would say my older Panny and Sony HDD/DVD recorders are every bit as good as those older VCR's you mention, though.

Mr.Panda

12-11-07, 05:13 PM

LG has some new hard drive recorders listed on their site.

Exactly my point,

you are speaking of older DVD recorders as opposed to new models in regards to my older VHS machines.
Excellent point!

Mr.Panda

Mike99

12-12-07, 12:39 AM

Mr.Panda,

You can watch one channel while recording another, just as you did with a VCR. You pass the RF signal thru the recorder and into the TV. Then use the TV tuner to watch the one channel. Obviously if you want to watch a digital channel on your TV, it needs to have an ATSC tuner for OTA or a QAM tuner for cable.

Mike99

12-12-07, 12:41 AM

When I did a channel scan a week or so ago, one of my clear QAM PBS sub-channels shows up on channel 1.4. I thought this very strange.

Mike99

12-12-07, 01:03 AM

My HDTV gets 6 local clear QAM HD channels in the 108.x to 117.x range. That's where they came up when I did an initial scan way back when & they have stayed that way.

My EZ17 recorder initial scan placed 4 of these in the same upper channels, but mapped ABC to 7.1 and WGN to 9.1. I'm curious why the split? And if I directly enter ABC-108.1 it does not work, yet it still works on the HDTV. I would have thought that manually entering the actual channel/frequency would have worked. After all, that is where the real channel is, correct?

A week ago I turned on the DVD recorder & all 4 of the upper range QAM HD channels were gone. I did a new scan and now all 6 are mapped to the lower virtual numbers. This is OK, but I'm surprised they do not still show up under the actual channels where they used to be. Is something telling the tuner that the information is not there, when of course it is because the HDTV still receives the actual QAM upper channels? I'm guessing the recorder tuner is detecting the mapping data and blocking the tuner from receiving the signal on the actual frequency, whether the unit did a another scan or not.

My concern is missing a timer scheduled program if Comcast re-maps channels when I'm away. Obviously the odds of this happening are small, but right now NBC HD is 5.2, not 5.1 and WTTW-D HD is 11.2, not 11.1. So I'm guessing they could change these two at any time.

Any comments on the basics of how channel mapping works would be appreciated. And why the HDTV still receives on the actual frequencies, but the EZ17 cannot.

rgazzara

12-12-07, 09:57 AM

LG has some new hard drive recorders listed on their site.

Not for sale in the US.

Mr.Panda

12-12-07, 11:06 AM

I should have know better.

I had this problem before.

Found one from them that I was interested in and it was not available in the USA.

Thank you,

Mr.Panda

Mr.Panda

12-12-07, 01:43 PM

Why does LG continuously refuse to market Hard Drive Recorder in the USA?

Rammitinski

12-12-07, 06:47 PM

They had a 480i HDD/DVD model a couple of years back that got it's Microsoft-based guide from the internet. They originally charged for the service, but eventually dropped the fee to sell off the stock.

You could try looking for one of those used.

Mr.Panda

12-12-07, 09:11 PM

Ha!

I remember that one well.

I was never interested it it because of the TV Guide Service.
Free or not.
I had and have no interest in this machine but you are perfectly correct.
This was their last one.

Thank you,

Mr.Panda

TechFive

12-15-07, 01:42 PM

I'm curious if anyone else has taken my test and seen the same bug? I can repeat it at will on my DVDR, and also noted the same thing on 2 other EZ-17's and 2 other ES-27's.
I'm sure it is happening on all of the Panny's with the digital tuner, but I cant say from experience on any of the model's w/vhs since I've never used one. Note I have also tried the most recent "firmware" update for the EZ-17 "U7-390" which did nothing about this bug.
I'm just trying to help someone else from missing an important event. I know before I figured it out I had missed several very important(to me) events. I hated recording events on this panny before I figured out the bug. I had to hold my breath that it would record every time I programmed an event. I've been programming VCR events since 1982, and NEVER had problems like this before. I really think the testers at Panasonic should have caught this before they released it to the public. And to make to make worse, Panasonic doesnt even have a good way for the public to notify them about issues. There most recent response is, "hopefully we will release a update disc soon"........Pitiful!

I have the same problem you described with both Weekly and Mon-Fri events. At first I thought the problem was intermittant, but soon discovered the problem was related to removing a full disc and replacing a new disc for the next day's event. I have observed how my unit fails on the second event, the event triggers as programed but the "record display" event shows 000000 till the end of timed event (nothing recorded). Powering down and up will restart the recording. I upgraded the firmware to the most recent on the Canadian site " U8-196" but the problem still remains.

I tried your work around for this problem and it does work, but it is not always possible to baby sit this machine. My unit has a August 2007 build date. I could not find a way to verify the firmware version either before or after the update I applied. If someone knows how to do this please reply.
Hopefuly Panasonic will correct this problem soon.

jjeff

12-15-07, 01:54 PM

Ton1234

12-16-07, 08:40 AM

Mine is a June 07 build date, and according to Panasonic, who doesnt even admit this IS a problem, there is no way to read the firmware rev. in the machine. Unlike my Panny LCD TV.
I tried as you did to update the machine with the newest firmware, and it failed. After several calls to Pansonic, we deduced the reason it failed was because my machine already had the new firmware. And I'm with you. It's a pain in the A** to have to baby sit the machine. I suppose if I had to go out of town, or say if I had a recording scheuled for 3am, before I would get up to turn/off the machine, I could use SINGLE EVENT, not weekly or daily schedules. Single events never seem to have this problem.
By the way, as I might have posted, I recently bought a Philips 3575 DVDR W/HDD, and am loving it. No bugs, so far.....As a previous poster said, "Panasonic, you're embarasing yourself, get this fixed"

My experience with the EZ-17 has been good so far. I do not know whether the problems being discussed here are isolated cases or not. True, I had the sound problem once and the panny missed a scheduled recording one time but after a firmware update, all the problems disappeared except for ocasional freeze-ups when too many buttons are pressed too fast.

My unit was made January of this year.:):D

jjeff

12-16-07, 09:15 AM

[QUOTE][I do not know whether the problems being discussed here are isolated cases or not./QUOTE]
I dont think they are isolated, I've noticed the same timer bug on 3 EZ-17's and 1 EZ-27.
Other problems associated with these machines are probably more isolated, but I personally have had 2 of my EZ machines die with u99 errors. Luckly they were less than a few months old, so I was able to exchange them for new ones. Note 2nd exchange was a little over a month, and I had to convince UE to exchange it, vs send in for service, since they normally only exchange for new within the first month, and send out for repair after a month.
I think it's somewhat a crap shoot weather your's will last. I hope it does, my current EZ-17 is past the month point, and all's well(except timer bug). Just in case, I bought the 3yr extended warrenty(which they were nice enough to sell to me long after I originally bought the unit). I'm normally not a extended warrenty guy, but with these I'd strongly suggest it.
For people reading about the problems with this unit, I dont want them to not buy it, but rather be aware of possible problems, and work arounds for the problems, if known.
That said, if you live in Canada, 200 miles from a store, I'm not sure I would buy one. For me, 2 miles from most stores, it's not a big deal to unplug everything, and haul it down to the store for an exchange, repair.
And as I've noted, when the machine is working, it can make fantastic recordings.

Mr. Hanky

12-19-07, 01:15 AM

I observed a new state of operation in my ez17, today. Earlier today, it apparently hit the 1st recording, but missed the 2nd recording. The weird thing is that it did appear to have activated for the 2nd recording, but never engaged the actual recording process. So when I found it, it was in a strange limbo state where, as if it was on and idle, but could not be turned off by the power button. It wasn't crashed, either. I could maneuver around to different menus. I even switched the disc, and it identified it properly. It was just unresponsive to pressing the power button in the normal way.

Naturally, I had to do the 5-sec power button press to reset it. My latest theory is that I have to swap in the fresh disc only after I have powered it up from an "off" state. If I swap the disc while it is "on" after I have stopped a scheduled recording in process, then leave it to shut itself off, it doesn't seem to remember it has a fresh disc or set the scheduler to work properly thereafter (until I manually power it up, exchange the disc, then power it off). This was all precipitated from what I did 1 day ago, I believe.

jjeff

12-19-07, 07:14 AM

Mr. Hanky

12-19-07, 01:18 PM

I agree about the manual power up then down cycle, at least once before the next day's recording(s). I'm not sure it has to be after midnight (though, it certainly should eliminate the greatest amount of uncertainty in the scheduler process, by doing so).

I would also add that the disc should be ejected and then re-inserted to give the machine a chance to re-aquisition its available space (even if it is the same disc as before), while you have the machine on. In a prior test I did, I did the manual power cycle but did not disturb the fresh disc that was in there, already, and that precipitated scheduler problems in the next day's recordings.

Church AV Guy

12-19-07, 02:18 PM

There is defiantly a bug in the way this machine handles midnight. I think everyone's problems would be eliminated if they would turn on and then back off, the machine at least once after the first midnight.
I know to some they will think this is ridiculous, and I suppose it is. But until Panasonic gets this fixed, it's a relatively easy workaround. At least in my opinion. Note I'm not defending this procedure to be anything but ridiculous and (should be) unneeded. I'm just stating, for me, since doing this procedure, I have not missed a scheduled program, which is worth the hassle of doing said procedure.
Several years ago after a software update, my old DirecTV receivers started to lock up. I found that cycling the power on a regular basis helped a lot. I used one of those programmable timers (http://www.extech.com/instrument/products/310_399/375475.html)to turn off the power for about five minutes a day, then turn it on again. It worked for me.

jjeff

12-19-07, 04:08 PM

AVchurch,
Your are correct. Just power cycling(that is unplug/replug) the unit will also set things straight. And I have also toyed with the idea of a timer to interrupt the power for 1 min, every day, at say 3am, but so far the turn/off thing has been working, especially now since everything OTA(which is all I have) will be in repeats, and I won't be recording much TV for awhile.

Mr.Handy, I have personally never had to actually eject the disc, but I find it imparitive to do the on/off thing after midnight, or at least the next day after I wake up.

Mr. Hanky

12-19-07, 06:59 PM

I guess we are experiencing the polar opposite to achieve the same thing. I have not noticed a need to perform the power cycle after midnight, but swapping the disc during the manual power on state seems to be a key factor in my setup. Weird, eh?

hpwong

12-28-07, 11:37 AM

jjeff

12-28-07, 02:12 PM

"I use DVD-RAM only, VSS off, DST off, manual clock, dim display, OTA."

Interesting. From my experience and your description, both events should have failed. I really never use RAM discs, but did try them on my tests, and they also failed. I think I have VSS on and bright display, but can't believe it would make a diff.
Since there is really nothing to record lately(with the strike and all) I'll set up my EZ-17 up exactly as your EZ-27, use a RAM disc, and try your test #2. I used to have a EZ-27, but it died(u99 error). Now I only have the EZ-17.
From what I've found, there is no way to display what current firmware you have in these Panny's. Would be kinda nice though.
Just one more thought, what time did you delete the first show in test #2?
I guess in my previous tests I would have done the delete sometime between 9:01-10pm.
Was your delete closer to midnight?

hpwong

12-28-07, 04:16 PM

"Just one more thought, what time did you delete the first show in test #2?
I guess in my previous tests I would have done the delete sometime between 9:01-10pm.
Was your delete closer to midnight?"

I think it was somewhere around 10, not right after it ended, but definitely before 10:30PM (bedtime).

TechFive

12-28-07, 04:32 PM

I have an EZ27 (June 2007, refurb? from 2ndTurn on eBay) and wanted to see if my unit would miss the weekly recordings since I would use it that way. I did two tests, and both recorded as scheduled.

Test 1: Weekly Tues PM and weekly Wed AM (2 hrs ea, different times, SP mode). Tues night after recorded event I swapped a blank formatted disc AND checked the schedule before midnight (I think Wed still showed a !), then turned off. Wed morn, it recorded per the schedule.

Test 2: Weekly Wed, weekly Thurs (1 hr ea, 8-9PM on both, XP mode). Tues after recorded event (before midnight), I powered on, deleted the show, then powered off. Thurs I did not touch the machine, but I watched the LCD as it turned on maybe a minute before the scheduled recording and then started to record as scheduled.

I use DVD-RAM only, VSS off, DST off, manual clock, dim display, OTA.

So the only difference I can tell may be my model (EZ27 and using RAM discs). I haven't tried updating the firmware... because it's working for now, but also don't know what firmware I have.

Have you tried a Mon-Fri event of "30 min. programs" leaving the EZ27 unattended till Friday which would require using a blank disc for the last event?
My unit is a August 2007 build and always fails to record the second and following events, with all media types. My unit also fails on multiple single events if left unattended, (only the first event is recorded).
If I power cycle the recorder each day before the event is to record I will have no problem.
In your test the fact you are powering and replacing the disc may be the reason for your success. Although I hope your unit is working properly mine is not.

hpwong

12-28-07, 04:37 PM

On a separate note, I don't want folks to read my original post and think they have any better chance of getting a perfect EZ-X7 player on eBay, because...

I am looking into a weird problem where the picture (including menu items) shifts up and down every 1-2 seconds by a few pixels. It happens on my front projector, but not my tube TV (I can watch both at the same time). My Sat and other HD STB don't do this on the projector, though. On DVD recordings, I can watch and rewind, watch and rewind and the shifts occur at slightly different times, so the shifts themselves are not recorded. Anyways, I need to look into this more. And if I do post on this, I might look for a different thread.

hpwong

12-28-07, 04:48 PM

Have you tried a Mon-Fri event of "30 min. programs" leaving the EZ27 unattended till Friday which would require using a blank disc for the last event?
...
In your test the fact you are powering and replacing the disc may be the reason for your success. Although I hope your unit is working properly mine is not.

No I have not done a M-F event, but I can try one if you give me the specifics (maybe one that doesn't take the whole week :))

When I first got it, I did make back to back to back recording of about 10 minutes each at different recording speeds and same channel just to see the quality differences. This no where near filled up a disc, but that worked.

I think what I have not done much of (recording-wise) is leave the DVDR untouched over 2 or more days, doing multiple recordings on the same disc.

hpwong

12-28-07, 05:48 PM

I just started test #3:
Sun-Sat, 2:30-3PM, SP, Ch 4-1 (NBC), blank DVD-RAM
The disc should hold 4 days of recording... and did show 12/31 in the Check column (which would be the 4th day)

I'm not sure I'll be around to see what it actually does at 2:30 tomorrow... but I think the key to this test is whether or not it records the 2nd day or not. So if I don't witness the DVDR going in to record mode on the 2nd day, I'[ll just turn on and check the Navigator to see what it has. Or if anyone wants the test to keep going untouched, let me know.

jjeff

12-28-07, 08:34 PM

HPWONG-"I use DVD-RAM only, VSS off, DST off, manual clock, dim display, OTA."

Well I setup my test recording. 8-9pm tonight(friday, weekly event)XP mode, which should fill up the RAM disc.
I also programmed 8-9am tomorrow morning(weekly Saturday)
Sometime around 9:05pm tonight(Friday) I will delete the disc and power down the machine.
I will leave the machine alone, and observe if the event records in the morning.

Note I could not find the VSS? option on my EZ-17 could it just be on the EZ-27? I did manually set my clock, but as before I don't see a option to turn off auto clock set. I also set DST to off, along with dim display. I am also OTA.
I'm not too optimistic, but willing to give it a try.

HPWONG, If you happen to be standing around watching when an scheduled event is supposed to be recording, but is not, try this. Turn the machine on, wait until it's done doing it's startup thing, then simply power the machine off. What I have observed doing this is, the second you turn off the machine, it will start the scheduled event!

hpwong

12-29-07, 12:14 AM

You can find the VSS option in the Audio menu tab. While viewing live (or recorded video, I think) press the Display or B button on the remote. I also couldn't find the VSS folks were talking about until I just pushed that button just to see what it did. Mine has always been set to off.

jjeff

12-29-07, 09:53 AM

hpwong

12-29-07, 11:46 AM

jjeff, Strange, but good.
I recall when initally setting up the DVDR channels, I thought the last thing it tried to do was set the clock automatically. It thought about it for what seemed too long (10 min?). Then I either shut it off or exited the setup and then used manual clock.

Anyways, it would make sense to me if the DVDR checks the time at least once a day to make sure it was correct if auto clock was set. But if it can't set itself, it may go into this loop of trying but failing to do so, preventing the scheduled recording to go off. A power cycle in that 'stuck' mode may reset it. It would be nice to have auto clock on, though (did it take a while for it to set?). I always miss either the beginning or end of shows with my old VCR due to wrong time. I can't do the extra minute method sometimes due to back to back/different channel recordings, plus this DVDR supposedly already cuts off the 1st 30 seconds of the 2nd in back/back recordings.

One thing I forgot I did between Test 2 and 3. I started to use the Quick Start feature. 30 seconds to turn on is too long. Now it's just a few seconds. Sometimes it's no delay if I turn that on first then my other equipment. For 12.3 watts more I think it's worth it. But it's another variable in test 3 now.

And I'm used to turning the power off for timer to work. Same as my old Panasonic VCR the DVDR is replacing. I've missed many recordings forgetting to do that. It also started to record the second you turned it off...

jjeff

12-29-07, 12:19 PM

TechFive

12-29-07, 02:27 PM

Very strange.......My 8am-9am event this morning worked!
Well back to testing. I setup the same series of events for tonight and tomorrow morning. This time the only thing I changed was using the auto clock set feature. Could it be that simple? I thought:confused: I had tried that before??? but I've tried so many things, I'm beginning to forget what combinations I have tried. Well at least we've found one that works, and I'll try to backtrack and find out what option stops the 2nd event from recording. Good deal:)

jjeff - I did the same test as you and HPWONG with all the same setting and the second event failed. My second event always fails no matter what is programmed!
Here is what happens on the second and following events: The timer does work for every event but the record display stays at 000000 till the event times out - the video displayed on the TV screen appears frozen. The following events all trigger but no video is recorded.

I found a hint some where on this forum to do a factory reset by holding the channel "up + down" buttons for several seconds till the EZ27 resets. This did in fact work and sent me to the first time setup screen which required a new channel scan and clock setting. Note - holding of the power button for 5 seconds or using the on screen defaults setting does not do a complete reset.

Success!
I setup another batch of tests since the hard reset and my EZ27 appears to be working! Could it be that after the firmware update was applied this caused my problems? Like you I have done many tests trying to narrow down this problem although the EZ27 seems to be working now, I lack faith in this product. I will post my recordings results in a week or so.

--Thanks to all forum members for your help and suggestions--

jjeff

12-29-07, 03:37 PM

Yes, I have also had the 00000 thing, but not always. Sometimes it does nothing at the time it is supposed to start recording.
I agree it is hard to have faith in this product as far as recording events, although since implementing the power up/down every morning(if I have an event programmed) seems to give me 100% success rate. The worst part is, any of my DVD Panny's before these EZ series units, never had a problem with timer events. I sure hope they get it fixed before the next generation recorders.
In the mean time I am experimenting with turning off the auto clock set feature, and will report back findings.

hpwong

12-29-07, 05:36 PM

Test 3 started recording as scheduled just a few minutes ago...
1 min before 2:30, the DVDR turned on, it only took a second or two for it to change to channel 4-1, the picutre to show, and show the square box in the right with a flashing red PAUSE. The DVDR LCD showed 00000 and a flashing REC. Then at 2:30 it started to record. I'll let it finish the 30 min Rec.

Mike99

12-29-07, 06:47 PM

Actually I know I have experimented with the quick on feature, and it did not effect the outcome. I personally leave it off, since I do not use RAM discs, and it doesn't really effect startup time with -RW's that much. I do hate the long startups though:mad:
In my area the autoclock set will work in about 1 minute, and does work for keeping the clock right on time, but maybe it is screwing up something else....
If this is the fix, I can certainly live without it. Note, at my cabin on another Panny, the autoclock set takes 15min.+ to work. I think it's using another signal to set the time there.
Oh and about having to turn off the EZ to get it to record, this is something new, and for the worse on Panny's. ON all my older Panny DVDR's, you did not have to turn off the DVDR to get it to record, unlike all my previous VCR's. I'd say, one step forward, one back with the EZ series.
As far as the back to back programs, that's one occasion when it's nice to have more than one DVDR, since you noted it takes 30 seconds to finalize the first recording before it can start the 2nd. Not to mention certain shows like "Desperate Housewives" and "Womans Murder Club" than chronically run 1-2 min over.:mad:
Although I've only got the one EZ machine, and now that I've gotten used to HD lite, and WS, it's hard to go back to the old analog tuner Panny's.;)

Is the 30 second delay in recording back to back programs due to the Instant On feature being turned off or due to finalizing your -RW discs? I typically use RAM discs and there is only a few seconds lost. However I used to have the Instant On feature turned on when I did this. Currently I have it turned off so I will have to experiment in this mode.

I share your thoughts about having a program run 1-2 mins over. I also have an ES20, but of course does not record WS, etc. So I use it for recording the program that will least likely suffer from recording in 4:3.

FWIW, the ES20 is more responsive than the EZ17. For example when using commercial skip, I can push the button on the ES20 several times in rapid succession and the picture almost instantly jumps ahead. With the EZ17 there seems to me a slight a lag for each skip. Not a deal breaker, but definitely slower. The ES20 also has an Open/Close button on the remote. I always thought this was silly because you have to go to the machine anyway. But I miss this on the EZ17. It is just nice having the disc drawer open when you get there.

jjeff

12-29-07, 07:10 PM

Maybe the missing 30 second thing does not happen to RAM discs, R's & RW discs have to do a little finalizing after each recording which takes up to 30 seconds. I bet that's another advantage of RAM's. It defiantly has nothing to do with the instant on feature, that's just for startup.
I agree if it werent for the HD lite, and WS on the EZ's, I'd be using my ES series Panny's much more.
On the 4x3 recording thing, I think(but don't have a separate tuner to try this) if a person was to feed a 16X9 downconverted HD signal into the S-input of our ES series Panny's, they would also record it, and have similar PQ to the EZ series.
I know copying a DVD, there is no PQ difference between the 2 units.

hpwong

12-29-07, 08:24 PM

I just started test #3:
Sun-Sat, 2:30-3PM, SP, Ch 4-1 (NBC), blank DVD-RAM
The disc should hold 4 days of recording... and did show 12/31 in the Check column (which would be the 4th day)

So both Fri and Sat recorded at the right time, but... when I checked the recordings, both recorded KCOP channel 13-1 instead of NBC channel 4-1. Really weird. The Schedule still shows NBC-4LA. In the DVD Navigator, in the black area under the thumbnail, it also says NBC-4LA, but the picture and title below the thumbnail are not of the NBC shows:

Friday shows video of Judge David Young and a title of Judge David Young (NBC should have been Martha Stewart)

Sat shows video of Married w/ Children, but title of Pleasantville (NBC should have been Golf). Pleasantville was on right before M w/ C on KCOP ch. 13, so looks like a timing thing between the title data and video being sent by the broadcaster, still wrong channel.

I tried to see if another weekly event would record the wrong channel: Weekly Sun-Sat, NBC 4-1, SP and tuned to Ch 5-1 before turning off. It came on and correctly recorded Ch 4-1 and the video and titles are correct. So I don't know how Test #3 recorded the wrong channel twice.

The other test was to see the delay in back to back recording on DVD-RAM. It was about 10-15 seconds gap, so not too bad, I guess. Both of these also recorded the right channels.

hpwong

12-30-07, 06:06 PM

Yesterday I set the clock automatically (and turned Quick Start OFF). It took 20-30 minutes to find the time. By the time I checked back on it, it asked if it was 8:15PM... but it was actually 8:30 by then. I said yes anyways and the clock stayed about 15 minutes too slow. This morning it was still 15 min behind. But somewhere between 10AM and 12:40PM it fixed itself and showed the right time.

Continuing Test #3, I did not turn on or touch the DVDR today (just saw that the LCD showed the wrong then right time) and it still started to record at 2:30. It stopped at 2:45 because the disc filled up. But it did record the right channel (4-1, Golf) today.

Anyways, I'm going to leave the auto clock on for now until it starts to act up.

Experimenting with the Quick Start... seems if the DVDR is on and then I turn off then on again, the DVDR starts up quick the 2nd time regardless of Quick Start setting. But it seems that if the DVDR has been off for a while, that's when the Quick Start reduces startup from 30 to 1 sec. By start up I just mean for the TV video and sound to appear... not anything on the disc. Need to try it a few more times... after cooling the machine overnight I think.

Mike99

12-31-07, 02:05 AM

I did several back to back timer recordings using both DVD-RAM and DVD-R media to see what kind of delay was experienced. I had Quick Start turned off which didn’t seem to affect anything. I say this because the recorder never turned off between recordings.

It did not seem to matter which media was used, but the 1st program ended anywhere from 0 to 3 seconds early according to the status display. And there was about 1 to 4 seconds total delay before the 2nd program came up. Seemed to be completely random. Didn't seem to make any difference if it was switching between HD QAM channels or analog.

The DVD-R did "writing to disc..." after the first program, which caused about 15 seconds of the 2nd program to be missed. Strangely the DVD-RAM missed about 10 seconds of the 2nd program. I tried this several times. Since the RAM seems so much more responsive I was not expecting this. If I push the Record button on the remote the RAM seems to respond in about a second, so I was expecting to miss only about a second of the 2nd program.

What I used to do for a work around with VHS machines was to manually set the clock about 15 seconds fast. I might lose a preview for the following week, but at least I caught the beginning of the 2nd program, presuming both programs changed on the hour.

I tried turning off Auto Clock when playing with DST, even though I never had a problem. But the clock always reset automatically anyway. So I don't know how I'd ever set the clock fast by 15 seconds. Perhaps a complete reset of the EZ17 would wipe out any trace of a time signal being present.

Mr. Hanky

12-31-07, 12:01 PM

This is another story to go under "strange things I've noticed whilst running my ez-17":

It's not really a sign of something "broke"- just strange (and technically, it wasn't really the unit, itself, that was "strange", rather something the unit was connected to when it happened). Anyways, I usually keep my ez-17 set so that it outputs anamorphically squeezed material from the tuner (so that it records same). The unit feeds into an input of my Toshiba recorder (which is there to act as my main video switcher, in addition to "vcr" duties). The normal thing to expect when I am watching this feed through my Toshiba on an sdtv is to see the same anamorphically squeezed format. However, when I activated the Timeslip function on the Toshiba (because I needed to make a bathroom break), I later found that somehow it was receiving the anamorphic flag from the ez-17 and was automatically playing back the content transformed to letterbox format! Weird, eh? I thought the flag only really comes into play when the file has been written/being read from a disc in the form of a file header or some such, rather than from a live feed.

The pq was a bit "off", however, so I suspect it isn't an intended behavior. I was just surprised that it was doing it. Maybe something in those data bits in the topmost lines of the image transmission was triggering this?

I've never seen it behave like this before, as when I playback the same recording from disc (as opposed to watching the live broadcast) on the ez-17 into the Toshiba, it displays it exactly like it should (anamorphically squeezed). The widescreen flag is not "communicated" in that scenario (which is what you would normally expect). (...but possibly it would do it again if I recorded the ez-17 output of the disc playback- I should go back and try it out)

DigaDo

12-31-07, 05:16 PM

I have a DMR-EZ17 of February 2007 manufacture. I also have extensive experience with my other Panasonics: DMR-ES30V and DMR-ES40V (2005 models); and DMR-ES35V and DMR-ES15 (2006 models).

My DMR-ES30V, DMR-ES35V and DMR-ES15 models are very reliable and perform well. The DMR-ES40V has design flaws and bugs that were not corrected by firmware updates. It also lacks important features found on my other older and newer Panasonics.

We have Comcast digital cable service where other Panasonic analog tuner models are connected to digital or HD cable boxes or set cable-ready.

The DMR-EZ17 is connected directly to the Comcast coaxial cable. We receive and record analog, digital, and HD channels (in SD) up to the 135 channel range as provided through Comcast.

One of these days I expect to experiment with an antenna. We are located line of sight within five miles of 18 analog, digital, or HD station towers. We are located line of sight within 50 miles of 13 additional analog, digital, or HD station towers, some of which channels are repeaters of the closer 18 channels.

The DMR-EZ17 initially demonstrated a lock-up problem, but only once. I unplugged it from the power strip to regain control. Later I noticed that it had a manual reset button at the far right behind the fold-down door. I have not had to use this button yet.

I have noticed a few scheduling menu quirks. So far I have not experienced DMR-EZ17 scheduling problems that always plagued the DMR-ES40V. Some of those same problems have been mentioned in this thread as DMR-EZ17 problems.

I found or devised some workarounds for the DMR-ES40V design flaws/bugs and posted that information on another forum. In the event that these DMR-ES40V workarounds may work with a DMR-EZ17, here is the substance of that post:

EARLY A.M. SCHEDULED RECORDING WORKAROUND. Schedule a brief recording beginning shortly before midnight, say 11:59 p.m., and ending shortly after midnight, say 12:01 a.m., AHEAD of any timer scheduled recording in the wee hours.

DAILY OR WEEKLY SCHEDULED RECORDING WORKAROUND. Timer scheduling of weekly or daily programs (say Monday-Friday programs, every Tuesday programs, & etc.) is unreliable. USE ACTUAL DATES WHEN SCHEDULING ALL PROGRAMS.

RATINGS AND PASSWORD WORKAROUND. Once my DMR-ES40V changed it's viewer ratings on its own, locking up the machine so that it would not play any DVD. It gave an error message. The DMR-ES40V had reset the "rating" by itself to a low number (1 or 2) that is very restrictive. When I attempted to change the "rating" back to the "8" default (in the FUNCTIONS, OTHER FUNCTIONS, SETUP, DISC, SETTINGS FOR PLAYBACK, RATINGS) I was asked for my password. I was the only user of this machine and I had never set a password. Nothing I tried would allow me to use the machine. Here is the DMR-ES40V workaround Panasonic gave me: Power unit on. Open DVD tray. Press and hold REC and PLAY on the machine for over 5 seconds. If done correctly the DVD tray will remain open. The ratings password setting will return to the default (no password). The rating will return to the "8" default.

CRASHING. My DMR-ES40V crashed often, especially when attempting to finalize its own discs (ruining them). I soon learned that it was always better to finalize its discs on my other Panasonic models. The machine regularly needed to be unplugged from the power strip in order to regain its control.

jjeff

12-31-07, 06:26 PM

Interesting post. What forum did you report your es-40 findings on?
I have a es-30, what is the differences between the 30 and 40 function wise?
I have never had a issue with weekly scheduled events on my es-30, but have had NUMEROUS problems with my ez Panny's.
I also had issues with my es-30 finalizing discs, but it was after maybe 1000? hrs of use, so I chalked it up to the laser being worn out/out of spec. I also never finalize on the es-30 anymore, but it's gotten so bad now, that 20?% of the time it also crashes doing the post recording mini finalizing thing, so I basically use it as a player only.
It almost sounds like the es-40 was a premonition of what was to come from Panasonic....And not a good one at that....
I agree, if it is a recording you really want, don't use the weekly/daily events. It's not worth the crap shoot that it will work.

P.S. I also have a es-15 and es-25, which does not seem to have the timer bug, and so far anyway, doesn't crash while finalizing....

hpwong

12-31-07, 06:46 PM

I noticed that when Auto Off feature is on and when the DVDR turns itself off after 2 or 6 hrs of inactivity, the DVDR does not show the Red Timer clock on the LCD indicating it is ready to perform a scheduled recording. If you power cycle it, the clock will then come on.

This morning I left it on and it turned itself off after 6 hrs. Coincidentally, the 6 hrs was up at 2:50PM. So since the DVDR was on at 2:30PM, Test #3 scheduled recording did not go off (as designed w/ power on). But at 2:50, the machine powered down by itself, said BYE, was off w/o the red clock for 1 minute, then the DVDR woke up and started recording NBC-4LA Martha Stewart til the end of the schedule recording (2:30-3PM).

So kinda of good news here that if you forget to power down the machine and you use the Auto Off, you have a chance to still get your recording. The one wrinkle here is that I did turn on the machine this morning... so I don't know if that helped it or not (ie power cycle after midnight).

DigaDo

12-31-07, 07:15 PM

Jjeff,

I have participated in the CD Freaks Forum where there is a Panasonic DVD Recorder and Player Forum.

The main differences between the (early 2005) DMR-ES30V and the (late 2005) DMR-ES40V:

The DMR-ES30V (and DMR-ES35V and DMR-ES15 models) can initiate a scheduled recording when powered on or off. The DMR-ES40V (and 2007 models) must be powered off.

The DMR-ES30V (and DMR-ES35V and other 2006 model combo recorders) may dub (copy) with Time Limited and/or Flexible Record when the dubbing (copying) is set up from the FUNCTIONS menu. The DMR-ES40V (and 2007 combo recorders) are limited to the front panel controlled dubbing (copying) where these essential features are not available. The workaround is to attach and external VCR to an input and command recordings of standard lengths when the recording being copied has the same remaining time to run, or set up a scheduled recording on an input and play the external VCR during the scheduled recording period.

The DMR-ES30V front panel display may be set to show the elapsed time of recording and the remaining time for a dubbed recording (when the real-time counter is set to zero at the end of the videotaped recording and rewinding to the beginning of the recording before starting to dub). The DMR-ES40V front panel display shows that the recorder is in the "dub" mode, well duh!

Perhaps your DMR-ES30V needs its DVD spindle cleaned. I will quote one of my posts entitled "What Goes Wrong On Panasonic DVD Recorders." The below text is slightly edited. (My post in that Forum has links to the other posts. I don't have enough posts on this Forum so I am not permitted to post links.)

(Poster) gave some very helpful advice concerning cleaning the DVD drive spindle and related parts. . .

Recently I’ve been following this advice for several of my DMR-ES15 and DMR-ES35V models. To open the case there are two or four large head Phillips screws on the sides and three Phillips screws securing the upper cover at the rear, found at the left, right and top center. This gives enough access to the DVD (and VHS drives) for cleaning.

After removing the four small Phillips screws and lifting the DVD drive top cover notice the guide rail on the underside of the cover. When viewing the DVD drive from the front (where the tray rolls out) notice the roller assembly at the rear of the tray. This mechanism must be positioned to the left corner before reassembly so these parts will be correctly aligned.

I have found two problems related to front panel buttons. If the combo recorder has suffered some trauma to the top cover or front panel there may be a misalignment of the contacts between the front panel circuit board(s) and the chassis mother board(s). Misalignment of these contacts may cause left and/or right buttons not to respond. The second type of button failure occurs due to the malfunctioning of the small switches on the front panel circuit boards behind the front panel buttons. When pressing a front panel button if no click is heard there is a good chance that the switch on the circuit board may have failed.

If circuit board contact misalignment is suspected it is necessary to remove the front panel. After removing the top cover observe that there is one Phillips screw securing the front panel at top center. Once that screw is removed release the snap-clips; usually two at the top left and center; two on the left and right case sides; and two more are on the case bottom at the left and right.

Observe and correct front panel circuit board fit to the front panel and correctly seat circuit board screws. Notice that the front panel circuit board contacts have pointed guides to facilitate alignment with chassis mother board contact assemblies.

When reassembling a combo recorder be sure to hold the VHS door open as the front panel is being fit back into place. This will assure correct alignment with the VHS door lifting mechanism.

Reassemble the front panel back to the case. If the snap-clips fit without forcing this should correctly realign the circuit board contacts. If not, realign the front panel and attempt to fit it into place without forcing the snap-clips. If the front panel snap-clips do not easily fit use a straight edge along the case bottom to determine if the case is bowed due to some trauma to the top of the machine. A bowed case may cause circuit board contact misalignment. If the case is bowed it may be gently straightened.

In combo recorders the conductive bridges and connectors between the left and right chassis motherboards are sturdier than they appear. Nevertheless observe caution when working near these bridges.

(Poster) has mentioned capacitor failures on Panasonic hard drive recorders.

(That poster) wrote “I fixed my DVD Recorder, it turned out to be a power supply issue. There are two capacitors that fail in the power supply (the power supply is located under the hard drive holding bracket). I easily observed the failed capacitors because they appeared slightly bloated, with a slight leakage of substance on the top.”

On several machines I have opened for cleaning I have observed the leaking of a beige substance from the same motherboard component on several machines. This component is identified as C11108 on a DMR-ES35V motherboard. It is a dark brown-covered canister with a shiny silver top, 1 3/16 inch tall by 11/16 inch wide. The dark brown cover has a wide grey stripe running down one side and the cannister has these markings, H0630, 220uF250V CS(M), 105 (degrees) C, nichicon. There is severe leaking on a non-functional DMR-ES35V parts machine. There is minor leaking on two other machines, one a still-functional DMR-ES15 (that experienced a couple of recording failures a couple of days following a power outage); and on one non-functional DMR-ES35V parts machine.

jjeff

12-31-07, 08:15 PM

I'll try the cleaning thing on my es-30, when I have some time. Thanks for the info.
The more you talk about the es-40, the more it sounds like the EZ series, with all it's bugs. Has anybody on CD freaks noted this?
One question I have for you, since you seem to know quite a bit about Panny's is this. On my es-25 I have the option to skip a weekly(or daily) event which is programmed into the schedule. All I have to do is hit S while the event is highlighted. The es-25 is the only Panny that I have with this feature. Do any of the EZ series Panny's have this nice feature? I find it really handy on the es-25 to be able to skip a weekly event, in the cast that I know a show is just going to be a repeat that week. I just suspend the event for that week. Otherwise on my EZ-17, I have to change the day to say a few days ahead and then remember to change the day back, or delete the weekly event, then add it back after the said event. I sure wish a EZ Panny had this feature.
P.S. Does the es-40 have 2 front panel displays, one for VHS the other for DVD's? When did Panny drop this nice feature from it's combo units?

HPWONG-I haven't forgot about you. I'm currently trying various options to have the DVDR fail it's scheduled events. My test at 5pm tonight failed, with auto clock on. I trying to nail it down though, and save you all the gruesome details. And yes if you power up the machine, like you did, it will correct the midnight thing(but ruin the test). I know it's hard to do, and I'm sure thats why it doesn't effect everybody. Me it effects all the time, since I only use the EZ-17 to record, I always use my Sony DVD player to play.

DigaDo

01-01-08, 12:35 AM

Jjeff,

The skip feature for the timer schedule on your DMR-ES25 is a nifty feature. I was unaware of that feature. I just tried it out on a DMR-ES15 and a DMR-ES35V. It works on both models. That will really save the mental anguish of trying to remember what needs to be put back into the schedule.

At the moment the DMR-EZ17 is the only one of my Panasonics set to record regularly scheduled programs. Of course the DMR-EZ17 lacks this schedule skip feature.

The DMR-ES40V is a stripped-down model with a simple (almost useless) front panel display. The DMR-ES35V has a better, more detailed display. The DMR-ES30V has the most comprehensive display of all my Panasonics.

Within a few months after purchasing the DMR-ES40V I gave up using it as a recorder. I wrote to Panasonic at their main office in New Jersey. I described the scheduling bugs and finalizing problems. A month and a half later a Panasonic engineer (not just a tech) called me. He said that he had been on the DMR-ES40V design team and that model was somewhat of a hybrid model based upon older VCR technology so it was not really able to do what I wanted to do with it(???) When I mentioned that I also had a DMR-ES30V that recorded scheduled programs and finalized its own DVDs flawlessly he said that the DMR-ES30V model was a very different machine. He suggested that my next Panasonic purchase should be one of their hard drive models.

Since that time the DMR-ES40V has been used mainly as the family TV VHS/DVD player (at $269.99 a very expensive player).

It seems that Panasonic has cut costs by using older obsolete technology for some parts used in the current EZ line.

jjeff

01-01-08, 06:10 AM

I also have es-15, but was not aware that it had the "skip" feature. I have it at my cabin, and rarely use it for weekly events. Just a one shot thing. I will check mine next weekend to verify, because I didn't think it had this feature.:confused:
What I was hoping was since the es-25 was a upgraded es-15, that maybe another model other than the "base" EZ-17 might have this feature. I did have a EZ-27 for a short period of time, before it died a U99 death, but never got around testing it for this feature.:( and now only have the EZ-17.

What bugged me the most about Panasonic customer support was there total lack insight as to what was going on with this timer bug. I spoke with supervisors and managers, and even got a call back from someone claiming to be in tech. support. When I tried to explain the bug, he just couldn't get it. He kept saying maybe with the next firmware update the bug would be fixed. When I said, how are they going to fix it, if they claim to know nothing about the bug, he was speechless:rolleyes:
I must have spent 10? hrs. with there help line and tech support. All to no avail:mad: I'll I was trying to do is have them fix this bug. so others don't miss valuable recordings like I had done many times in the past.
When I finally gave up, and started spreading the word here on AVS, I just couldn't imagine how a company the size of Panasonic could be so inept and still produce a product with the PQ of there units. I guess they must have got lucky on that point, and haven't bothered to make the PQ better:D....

DigaDo

01-01-08, 02:32 PM

Jjeff,

Due to "ghosting" on local analog channels tuned cable-ready, I record our local digital channels and some other cable channels with the DMR-EZ17. My digital cable box is usually tuned to TCM, and now and then to RetroPlex. One DMR-ES35V and one DMR-ES30V are utilized for that purpose.

As to Customer Service woes, it is common business practice in many industries that representatives are instructed to fein ignorance of bugs and design flaws, especially where the manufacturer has not, or will not, correct the problem in existing products. If representatives were instructed to be truthful they would admit that they have heard the same complaints over and over from many customers. Instead, when a customer calls with a problem the representative treats the situation as if it is "something new" or "the first I've heard of the problem." That's not the way to retain a customer.

I purchased the DMR-ES40V new at Costco on December 14, 2005. (As I had purchased the DMR-ES30V new at Wal-Mart on September 1, 2005 I knew how a good Panasonic model was supposed to work.) The DMR-ES40V exhibited the scheduling problems right away. I relied on the DMR-ES30V and used the DMR-ES40V very little. The password "ratings" problem appeared with the DMR-ES40V after a power outage on February 21, 2006. I wrote to Panasonic in early March 2006 concerning both problems. Panasonic responded with the password and "ratings" workaround but ignored the scheduling problems. By late March 2006 the finalizing problems had appeared. Then, on April 15, 2006 I wrote to Panasonic giving a very detailed description of the scheduling and finalizing problems. It was actually a month and a half later, on May 31, 2006, that I was called by the Panasonic Engineer.

In defense of the DMR-ES40V I will say that its recorded picture quality is equal to that of other Panasonics, very good to excellent.

The scheduling problems are not present in my 2006 Panasonic models. And now I read that the problem has reappeared in the 2007 Panasonic models. Not good! How many times is it necessary to (re)invent the wheel?

In defense of Panasonic Customer Service I will say that they were very helpful when my original DMR-ES30V had a DVD drive failure in August 2006 after eleven months' use. Panasonic replaced that drive under warranty and paid for shipping both ways to their Illinois Service Center.

I purchased a new DMR-ES15 in August 2006 while the DMR-ES30V was being repaired, and following that, two Panasonic factory refurbished DMR-ES30V and a DMR-ES35V models. These were purchased for use in my extensive project dubbing to DVD selected portions of my home-recorded videotape collection (going back to 1986). The refurbished Panasonics have been very reliable.

My dubbing project was begun in November 2006. Realizing that this project would take a very long time with the Panasonics on hand I purchased three used DMR-ES35V models and later, two more of that model for parts. When I encountered some Sony T-160 tapes that only one DMR-ES35V could satisfactorily track I incorporated two Toshiba VCRs (of 1996 vintage) into the dubbing arrangement. As the dubbing project progressed I learned to swap out parts, make adjustments, service and make minor repairs as needed with some of the used Panasonics. With some of my help the used Panasonics have been very reliable.

At times my dubbing project had up to seven Panasonic DVD recorders running up to eighteen hours per day. My project came to its conclusion in September 2007.

With heavy use of the main Panasonics, and to maximize efficiency with several Panasonics set aside for standby use, and to make more complete utilization of the parts machines, I purchased three used DMR-ES15 models, two with bad DVD drives. I swapped in the two good DVD drives from the DMR-ES35V parts machines. (The DMR-ES15 model uses the same DVD drives and drive controller circuit boards as do DMR-ES35V models.)

At the moment I have ten Panasonic DVD recorders or combo recorders fully functional for continuing or standby use; not counting the bug-laden DMR-ES40V and one used DMR-ES15 that was found to have a bad tuner (so its use is restricted to "line-in" recording). One of the parts DMR-ES35V machines has a good tuner. As tuners have more than twenty soldered pins in tight arrangement on a chassis mother board, this complex soldering repair is beyond my skill level. Simple soldering, such as a bad front panel circuit board switch, is within my ability.

My Panasonic DVD recorders and the dubbing project have been quite a learning experience.

jjeff

01-01-08, 06:03 PM

Digado,
Wow, and I thought I was over the edge with all my Panny's. I currently have:
2 es-30's Both purchased at Sams-one I spoke of earlier, tends to lockup during finalizing.
1 es-25 that I bought when I was having problems with one of my es-30's
2 es-15's that I got such a super deal at UE, I couldnt pass them up. $99/each new
1 ez-17 that I also bought at UE, for the digital tuner thing.

Note before this last ez-17 that I have had for a month and a half, I had 2 others that died a quick u99 death less than a month old, and a ez-27 that did the same death.

One final note, due to all the problems with my EZ Panny's, and lack of support or belief that they would actually correct the bugs, at the suggestion of Wabjxo, I bought a Philips 3575.
I never had a HDD Panny, due to the cost, but really love the HDD on the Philips. And the digital tuner on the Phiips is much faster, and scheduled events much more reliable. As I've noted, but some others do not see, the PQ on the Panny's are much better, on speeds above 2hrs up to about 4hrs.
But when I really want to make sure a event records, and the program is on a HD channel, I will use both EZ-17 and 3575, to make sure it gets recorded.

Hpwong-My weekly scheduled event today FAILED! I was using RAM discs, and had the autoclock and dst set to off.
I think this whole timer bug has got me stumped, I think I'm gonna give up for now trying to figure it out, and just do the power cycle every morning, which always makes my weekly events record. If you want to continue the testing please do. If you want me to try something, that you think will make my unit record w/o the power cycle thing, let me know. Otherwise I'm getting burned out on the testing. I've done probably 30? hrs of test recordings on this unit, and only 25? of real recordings. I gotta lay off it for a while. I hope you understand. I had hoped this last autoclock off thing would have worked, but alas not for me.

kenpreno

01-01-08, 08:35 PM

Jeff, found this page with your comments re the timers and failure of them to work consistently.
What are they - Panasonic doing about this long time problem - what's the point of selling equipment that does not meet spec.
I work in the aero space engine supplier market - no way could we release something that "might work" 60% of the time.
Should I contact them since we thought it was something we had not programmed correctly, but that looks not to be the case.
Again looks like you have spent a lot of time trying to fix the un-fixable.
Thanks
Ken p.

jjeff

01-02-08, 08:38 AM

kenpreno, While I certainly would not say to NOT contact Panasonic about this problem, truthfully I cant say that I think anything will be done about it.:mad:
If you contact them I would think you will get the same runaround that both myself and Digado got. The person who you talk to may plead that they "have never heard of this problem". They will have you power cycle the machine, they will have you download, or send you out a firmware update disc, etc. etc.
If you do as I did, and probably Digado did, spend 10's of hours trying to figure it out, and in my case I found a workaround which, for me, works 100% of the time. Granted powering up/down the machine at least once every morning is going to sound ridiculous to some, it does work.
I even have 2 events that if you program them, and they should work(worked on all my other Panny's)they will fail every time. For the life of me, I could not get Panasonic to try my test:mad: At that point I kind of gave up on trying to get it corrected by Panasonic, and tried spreading the word on forums like this one. I figured if Panasonic was not going to fix it, at least people in the know would have workarounds.
What really put me over the edge with the whole timer bug thing was what Digado said. He said apparently Panasonic has had a similar timer bug on a previous generation DVDR. Two before the EZ series. Apparently they never even fixed that generations bugs!:mad:
Like I said, I don't really know what personally you should do. To me, the PQ of the Panny's make the bug (which I have found a workaround for) ok to live with. Would I like it fixed, FOR SURE, but I guess the WS and PQ make it worth keeping the EZ-17.
P.S. not sure if there's still time to return your Panny, but if you like the PQ of the Philips 3575, $299 Walmart. It has no bugs I've found. It has a HDD which is very handy, but as noted it's probably ~$100 more than the Panny. I hate to turn you away from Panny's, I have liked mine of the past, but if you don't like screwing around, and want to be able to program in something and actually have it work, I guess I might look to other brands.:confused:
Note as Digado noted, and I have as well, if you just don't use DAILY or WEEKLY events, I don't think you will experience this bug. Again I don't know everything about this bug, but that's what I have found. Maybe that's an acceptable workaround for you?
Good luck.

HomeVideoGuy

01-02-08, 10:00 AM

OK. Now sounds like the perfect time to chime in and really confuse things:D

Sunday night, after my 6:30pm-7:00pm WEEKLY timer scheduled recording that completed my recordings for the week but did not fill the disc, I returned home to change out that disc with a new one for this week. Upon changing discs, first time in a while immediately after a WEEKLY recording, I noticed my timer showing the previous recording still listing it as scheduled to record on 12/30 and moved to the bottom of the list. Since my Monday night shows were reruns and I was really testing my new 16x9 anamorphic WS setting, I left it alone to see what happened. Just like I thought I noticed was happening, it recorded Monday night just fine, no power cycle after midnight or anything. I have AutoClockSet and DST to off, set my own time and have VSS to off.

While I did miss a couple of settings in October, it has recorded w/o a miss 4-5 times a week for the last couple of months even with this reported timer anomoly. I wish I could have isolated it so I could have worked around it and prevented any future problems, but for now it seems pretty reliable.

I have also noted lately that my other reported problem of it telling me in the timer that it was out of space on the disc to record any further timer settings despite showing more free time in the finalize menu seems to have been my stupidity. Upon further inspection, it would seem that it is accurately notifying me of insufficient time to record any further settings at their set record speeds. I was just not factoring in my buffer time before and after recordings. It was right that it could not fit in a 1hr 5min timer setting in 42min of remaining disc space in LP mode.

At any rate, my findings seem to indicate that this is a more random problem than perhaps a true bug effecting everyone.:(

kenpreno

01-02-08, 10:32 PM

I think I am going to have to live with having spent my $$$'s and never go back to Panasonic machines again - my choice as a consumer me thinks.
Yours or one member of this forum's work around of just using the daily date input to record is ok for simple one or two things per week, but if one has say three thinks per day M-F and then some weekend recording to do it sucks - in fact my wife who is the wiz has refused to program this machine.
We sent an e-mail to Pan just to register our discussed with marketing equipment that does not meet a minimum standard and in fact might be conceived as fraudulent advertising something that it will not do.
Jeff you have gone the extra mile on this one and don't wish to use any more of your time.
The Phillips machine does not have the VHS tape aspect, our tape library is now up to approx 1200 tapes all approx 6hrs and going back 20+ years, that was one reason we purchased the EZ47 machine for $380-00 at Circuit City (they have reduced in price now)
Again thanks. 73's
ken p.

DigaDo

01-03-08, 01:43 AM

Kenpreno,

My recently concluded dubbing project included something more than 1,800 home-recorded videotapes that I recorded over a twenty-year period. I was selective in what I chose to preserve to DVD, mostly early talkies through the film noir era. During the ten month project I usually had four Panasonic combo recorders running sixteen hours per day. Sometimes as many as seven Panasonic combo recorders were running up to eighteen hours per day.

One combo recorder is not sufficient for such a project.

Should you decide to purchase additional combo recorders consider several 2006 Panasonic models (DMR-ES35V, DMR-ES45V, or DMR-ES46V). I have four DMR-ES35V models and two similar DMR-ES30V models from 2005 in current or standby use. (I purchased some of these new, some refurbished and some used.) These older Panasonics have the Time Limited and Flexible Recording copying/dubbing features that allow customized settings for selective dubbing. These features are set up through the FUNCTIONS menu so that the Panasonics may be left alone to do their work with very little supervision. The 2006 Panasonic models may sometimes be found on eBay or other online sources factory refurbished by Panasonic, with a 90-day Panasonic warranty, at very reasonable prices. The refurbished models I have purchased have been very reliable with little or no attention. Used models do not have a Panasonic warranty and are sold as-is. Some used Panasonics I purchased needed some swapping of parts (including one chassis mother board, several VHS and DVD drives, and a couple of circuit boards) from two other Panasonics I purchased for parts. I also performed various adjustments, some small part replacements requiring soldering, routine cleaning of VHS drives, DVD drive lens, spindles and related parts. I have managed to keep the used models performing well with a little TLC.

Avoid the DMR-ES40V, a bug-laden 2005 model that lacks important features. The firmware update did not correct the design flaws with this model.

Current model Panasonic combo recorders (DMR-EZ37V, DMR-EZ47V, DMR-EZ475) are not user-friendly for selective dubbing as they do not have the Time Limited and Flexible Recording features for copying/dubbing as found on 2006 and some earlier models. Front panel copying/dubbing controls are satisfactory for directly copying an entire videotape without supervison, but the controls do not allow customized settings that streamline selective dubbing. (There are workarounds that emulate these missing combo recorder features but these require the use of an external VCR. In this instance there is very little advantage to a current model combo recorder. A DVD recorder with an external VCR will perform the same function.)

jjeff

01-03-08, 02:14 PM

Digado,
At the risk of getting OT on this thread, do you think we should start another thread here at AVS. Titled something like "Panasonic talk", or if you have the ability to post links, maybe we could meet up at your cdfreaks? forum.
I have a few questions for you. For the last few weeks one of my es-10's is starting to act up, and I would also like to talk about some other Panny's, which really don't belong in this EZ-17 thread. What do you think? Videohelp also has a sticky titled " Panasonic Tips and Tricks" which seems to be kind of dead. It least it hasn't been posted to in over 3 months.
Jeff

DigaDo

01-03-08, 03:26 PM

Jjeff,

Certainly there is merit for a thread where concerns common to a variety of Panasonic owners might be discussed. Why don't you "build it and they will come." I hope that I may now have permission to post two important links.

Here is the link concerning cleaning of the DVD drive spindle and lens:

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=210507

This is good advice for those with DVD drives that seem to be failing but really just need a spindle cleaning. Recent Panasonic DVD drives are easy to service as it's just a matter of removing the top cover to get access. I have an older (2003) Panasonic DVD-S35 player where the DVD drive itself is of a more "open" design, but cleaning access to the rubber spindle is more difficult.

Here is the link concerning capacitor failure and replacement:

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=204006

Since I'm not trained in electronics I can't always identify what component is what, but I may observe obvious signs of failure and make minor repairs. I'm stumped when it comes to a bad tuner where it requires unsoldering more than twenty tightly grouped pins at once on a motherboard. Is it necessary to find ten folks with soldering guns each working on two pins and then an eleventh person to pull the tuner off when it's loose, and to reverse the process to install the tuner? On one DMR-ES35V I swapped out the left chassis motherboard because of a bad tuner. My problem is that I have a good tuner on another DMR-ES35V motherboard but the tuner is needed for a DMR-ES15 that uses a different motherboard. Of course the DMR-ES15 still functions as a "line-in" recorder, as are most low-end DVRs currently found in the marketplace.

The other forum already has dedicated Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips and Lite-On areas. Sometimes there are frequent postings with lively discussion and other times very little activity and questions go unanswered. I suppose that is to be expected in any forum.

jjeff

01-03-08, 09:28 PM

DigaDo, While the idea of a General Panasonic DVDR thread might be good but I can foresee a few problems.
Firstly I do like the general format of forums like this one. Keeping specific threads for particular models of DVDR's. It gives a more specific area for users of that model machine to go. The problem is when something effects all models of a particular manufacture. Such as the program bug on the Panny EZ series. If it gets discussed in one thread, and someone with a different model, but same bug, looks on another thread, they may never see the information.
The problem with a general Panasonic type thread is, it may become to cumbersome for people to find specific information about there particular model. And information in it, may become lost in the pages, due to it's size. I'm new to all forums in general, so I'm sure the whole idea has been talked about in nausiaum in the past, and if there's not such a general or sticky thread, maybe there's a reason.
For now I'll try to keep things specific to a particular model, and when I find a thread on a es-15, I'll ask my questions about my problem there, or maybe start a new thread titled something like "grinding noise in Panasonic DVDR"?

On another note, actually related to the OP, I cant resist tinkering with this timer bug. So far the second of both weekly events on my EZ-17 have failed for the last 2 days, without the power up/down. I'm trying to find other ways to enable the second event w/o the power up/down. The events are all just test recordings, nothing I care about.

DigaDo

01-04-08, 12:54 AM

Jjeff,

It's a bit difficult to address broad and narrow topics at the same time.

Yesterday a "good working order" used DMR-EZ17 of January 2007 manufacture arrived. I purchased this as a gift for a family member who has some type of apartment house (free) basic cable of ten or so channels with dreadful picture quality on local analog stations. (That location is on the valley floor but within 2.5 miles of 18 analog, digital, and HD broadcast station towers mainly on three hilltops, two of which are more or less line of sight with one hilltop possibly obstructing line of sight signals from the third hilltop. She does have an older Radio Shack amplified indoor antenna available for use.)

While the DMR-EZ17 was listed as including the remote control, it actually came with a (broken) Philips universal remote. I am familiar with this model Philips remote. Even if it were to accept the appropriate Panasonic code (and after inserting fresh batteries it was still dead) it would not be able to access the SCHEDULE and FUNCTIONS menus or control a variety of other operations. I emailed the seller concerning the problem. They are offering a price adjustment but I would prefer to have an appropriate Panasonic remote. That's where it stands at the moment. With one of my DMR-ES15 remotes I have been checking this Panasonic's operation. With special attention to scheduled recordings (Monday-Friday, every Wednesday, every Thursday, and "dated" recordings) so far it's initiating scheduled recordings without a problem.

If you're hearing grinding noises from a DMR-ES15 it may be the beginning stage of a DVD drive failure. The DVD drive in my original DMR-ES30V started to make some grinding noises during recording, finalizing, and playback just before it failed. "Grinding noises" are not good!

My original DMR-ES15 has had very heavy use as a slave to my digital cable box. Within days after an October power outage it had a couple of recording failures. I swapped a DMR-ES35V into its place. After I serviced its DVD drive I set the DMR-ES15 aside for standby use.

jjeff

01-04-08, 08:55 AM

Bummer no the remote, I hope you got it cheap. I actually had picked up a second '"NEW" EZ-17 at Best Buy, 3? months ago. They were clearancing them out for $114! They had 3 new ones on the shelf. It took all I could do(or rather the wife) to stop me from buying them all. They were discontinuing the EZ-17 and going to sell only the EZ-27. Anyway that one died a little over a month after purchase, with dreaded U99 error. When I went back to BB, since they did not sell the EZ-17 anymore, all they could do was give me a $114 credit, or send mine in for repair. Not liking the idea of repair, I begrudgingly took the $114. Oh well, I thought I had a good deal.

I too don't like the grinding of my es-15, it's how my es-30 sounded before it basically was reverted to a player only status. I was hoping maybe your cleaning? technique might work. This grinding mostly happens during finalizing, and can render a disc unfinalizable, DVDR play only! I've got a half a dozen of these type discs over the years. At least thats a better option than totally wiping out the disc during finalizing. I've had that happen 1/2 dozen times over the past too.
P.S. when I'm more sure of my timer bug test, I'll give you a quick "test program" that you can use to see what I'm talking about. On the 4? EZ's I have used, they all were unable to record the test, at least the 2nd event of the test. I can't believe it's just my EZ's that don't record the test.

Mr. Hanky

01-04-08, 11:54 AM

It's me- I've been coming over every time in the wee hours, just to press stop-cancel on your recorder as soon as the 2nd program triggers! :p You can't stop me- no one can...

jjeff

01-04-08, 04:45 PM

If anybody in the house could actually even work half the stuff I have hooked up, I might suspect them:D
Otherwise it must be the ghost in the machine....:rolleyes: Keep your "handies" off my machine:p

jjeff

01-06-08, 05:13 PM

For anybody just interested in the timer bug, which which effects this DMR-EZ17, and actually I believe all EZ panasonic's, please search on the thread titled (panasonic dvd recorder "fails to record scheduled event" ) I'll try and keep a thread dedicated to just this problem, updated. Instead of trying to update all the various EZ threads.

DigaDo

01-06-08, 05:57 PM

I have had my first DMR-EZ17 for a few months now. By and large it has performed well.

Four days ago a second DMR-EZ17 arrived, this one purchased used as a gift for a relative. As this machine did not come with a Panasonic remote I used one from a DMR-ES15 to set up the machine. This machine seems to be performing normally.

As both DMR-EZ17 models are set to control code "1" they may be operated with the original DMR-EZ17 remote or the DMR-ES15 remote.

Yesterday I purchased a Philips Digital DVD Learning Remote PMDVD6. I had found several positive reviews on Amazon and then went to our local Fred Meyer (Kroger) where I purchased this remote for $9.74. After setting the 0340 code for a Panasonic DVD Recorder I found that this Phillips remote controls just the most basic functions after the initial code setup. Then, using the original Panasonic DMR-EZ17 remote, I taught the Philips remote the missing commands. I also reassigned various buttons to be closer to the standard Panasonic arrangement. Here is a rundown of added commands or reassignments:

The Philips forward and back "scan" buttons operated the Panasonic "skip" functions. There were no buttons that operated the Panasonic fast forward or rewind (search) buttons so I assigned the two buttons just above the scan buttons to operate the "search" commands. The next three buttons up the left side were assigned to "Direct Navigator, Schedule, and Enter" (as the last named button is already labeled "enter"). The next three buttons up the right side were assigned to "Return, Functions and (the sub-channel tuning) Dash." Just above the Philips numbered buttons there is a row of five buttons labeled "clear, audio, zoom, resume, input/setup." I kept/reassigned these as "cancel, audio, rec mode, AM/PM (actually an extra pause button) and input select." There was another button above the left button in that row that I assigned as the "Status" button. The Philips remote has an "open/close" button that does exactly that even though Panasonic remotes don't have this feature. The Philips remote and the DMR-EZ17 function well together.

Today neither Panasonic remote nor the Philips remote would power on the two DMR-EZ17s. This is unlikely to be related to the remotes as the Panasonics wouldn't power on by pressing the power button on the machines themselves. When I pressed the open/close buttons on the machines the Panasonics did power on and open their trays. Since then both machines have been functioning normally and are entirely responsive to the three remotes.

Is this a previously reported bug and fix?

jjeff

01-06-08, 06:23 PM

Boy, that's a odd one. I'm gonna throw something out that may be way off base, but here goes. The machines aren't under any bright florescent lights are they? I have seen IR's be thrown of by the light garbage that a florescent light can emit. Barring that, and since both units exhibited the same problem....could you have had some kind of weird power related problem?
I don't believe I've ever personally had this problem with my EZ-17, although sometimes my Panny LCD will be unresponsive to the remote, or even power button. The only thing that will make it come on, is to disconnect the power, then reconnect it. Then everything is good for several months. Note when I called Panasonic about this, they suggested I put the TV on a UPS. When I told them I had it on a UPS, they said "try taking it off the UPS"

Gotta love Panasonic tech support.:D:D

DigaDo

01-06-08, 06:48 PM

Jeff,

LOL! That reminds me of calling Dell Technical Support. Sometimes it's just guesswork. Back in the old days I would tell our techs that I brought a special tool to the office for use on a bad computer. The tech asked what the tool was. My response "a very large hammer; once its broken into little pieces you will have to find a new computer."

In this room there are just regular light bulbs in the fixtures and whatever light comes off two 13 inch RCA TVs and two Dell LCD monitors.

Did you know that back in the 1800's, before the common use of electricity, folks had to watch TV by candlelight?

DigaDo

01-13-08, 11:08 AM

Earlier in this thread I described and linked to a post concerning the cleaning of Panasonic DVD drive lens, spindles, and related parts. My post characterized opening of DVD drives as being simple and straightforward, which it is for 2006 and newer models. (These DVD drives, with the exception of the several ribbon connections on the underside, are largely self-contained metal units somewhat like those found in computers.)

In the 2006 and newer models the opening of the Panasonic case, removing the DVD drive lid, cleaning the drive, closing of the drive lid, and closing the case takes less than fifteen minutes.

Yesterday came the first occasion I had to open a DMR-ES30V case for DVD drive cleaning. I found the DVD drive on this 2005 model to be a black plastic assembly with an operational mechanism partly extending from the right side, and what seems to be some type of interlock at the left rear. Due to some time constraints it was necessary to set aside the DMR-ES30V. I expect to return to this project as I have more time to determine the correct DVD drive opening procedure.

jjeff

01-13-08, 12:36 PM

I'll be interested in you results. I'm having problems with 2 of my 3 es-30's. They like to self check during finalizing, which either wipes out the disc, or makes it unfinalizable. Basically only able to play on Panny DVDR's. Keep us informed. Depending on your luck, I may try opening up mine. I'll admit, I haven't opened the case on any of my DVDR's. Now my VHS's were another story. I used to clean heads, tape paths, replace idler pulleys and belts. With the DVDR's I didn't figure I could do anything but run the lens cleaner disc through it, and hope for the best. Maybe I was wrong.

DigaDo

01-13-08, 09:26 PM

Jeff,

Today I set aside more time to clean the DVD and VHS drives of my original DMR-ES30V. This is the first Panasonic DVD combo recorder I purchased new in September 2005. After eleven months’ use there was a DVD drive failure. Panasonic replaced the DVD drive under warranty in August 2006. Other than that this DMR-ES30V has performed well; initially as the primary DVD recorder and later as the secondary DVD recorder, one of two Panasonics enslaved to Comcast digital cable boxes since new. This machine has had frequent heavy use.

I pulled this DMR-ES30V from service following a disc recording failure, a lock-up requiring a manual power down, a self-test without recovery, a channel up/down forced reset, after which I could eject the disc. (None of these measures have been needed on this machine since August 2006.) The failed disc had a chunk of debris stuck to the recording surface at the point where the recording ended. After removing the debris from the disc it could not be read on a DMR-ES35V.

Whenever I have a disc recording failure I remove the machine from service, clean the DVD drive, and either return the machine to service or swap it out with a standby machine. This machine was set aside for standby use.

DISSASSEMBLY AND CLEANING: See general information in the earlier post. On a DMR-ES30V the case cover and the front panel needs to be removed in order to give clearance for the DVD drive lid to be lifted somewhat at the front, slid forward, allowing the rear to disengage, following which the lid may be lifted off. The opaque plastic part (earlier thought to be an "interlock") seems to be a retainer/guide. Following the detailed instructions in the earlier link clean the lens, rubber and plastic spindle parts and hub area, and the circular hub in the DVD drive lid. Clean the VHS drive as well. Hold the VHS door open as the front panel is fitted back into place. Allow around 35 minutes for these procedures.

This DMR-ES30V DVD drive was found with a soiled rubber spindle and hub with loose dust and debris on the spindle and disc tray. The VHS tape path and recording heads were cleaned but the greased mechanisms were not serviced even though they had collected much dust and debris. The swabs were very dirty after the cleaning.

MODEL COMPARISONS. As I have serviced and/or rebuilt several DMR-ES35V or DMR-ES15 models, here are some observations of differences between the DMR-ES30V and those models:

The DMR-ES30V DVD drive is of a more open design on the underside. This admits more dust and debris than later model drives. There is a greased bumper at the rear of the DVD tray above and behind the spinning disc. This would seem to attract more debris than the greased rod assemblies located below the disc tray.

The DMR-ES30V has a smaller fan than the DMR-ES35V. There is no fan on the DMR-ES15 model. The DMR-ES30V power supply is found on its own platform at the rear center; the DMR-ES35V and DMR-ES15 power supplies are incorporated into the right chassis motherboard (DMR-ES35V) or the main chassis motherboard (DMR-ES15). The DMR-ES30V front panel has two circuit boards; the right circuit board spans two thirds the width of the machine, carrying the comprehensive display and the right button switches; the DMR-ES35V display incorporates the remote sensor and is mounted at the front of the left chassis motherboard; the DMR-ES30V remote sensor is incorporated into the power button assembly, and, with the inputs, is part of the left front panel circuit board; the DMR-ES35V has smaller left and right front panel circuit boards that carry switches for the front panel buttons and inputs on the left. The DMR-ES15 has switch pad circuit boards mounted to the chassis.

avsuserpr

01-16-08, 08:47 PM

I recently purchased the EZ17K and have mixed feelings about it. Not sure if I should return it or not. On the good side, I've NEVER had any audio problems with it (no missing dialog on 5.1 downmixed recordings) and the recording quality is pretty damn good.

On the negative side, the recorder seems to have issues with DVD-R DL (dual layer) discs. I did try a couple of Verbatim DVD-R DL discs and the recorder was incapable of finalizing the discs. Upon trying, I'd get an error message saying "Finalization failed." They won't play back anywhere else now. Panasonic didn't have any good ideas as to why it did that. I managed to extract the video from the disc with my PC, but that was a pain in the butt. But what Panasonic said in the manual is true. There IS a gap where the layer change is. Probably about a three second loss of content.

I did have success with a DVD+R (dual layer) disc, however. It finalized, but took FOREVER to do so. I haven't noticed any gap during playback at the layer change, but i have not extracted the video with my PC to confirm that is the case.

DVD+RW works great, haven't tried DVD-RW or DVD-RAM yet.

One problem I do have with the machine is the "INPUT LEVEL" control in the "BLACK LEVEL CONTROL" in the "VIDEO" section of the "SETUP" menu. The setting only allows for a "Darker" or "Lighter" setting, which I hate. The original signal I want to record looks so much better and this recorder won't let me pass it through unaltered. I've tested it and it records either "darker" or "lighter" than the original. Its either too dark or washed out looking in comparison. In my opinion. But maybe I'm being nitpicky. Anyone know how to disable that setting?

Thanks,
John R

"I managed to extract the video from the disc with my PC, but that was a pain in the butt."
how do? thanks.

DigaDo

01-17-08, 02:14 AM

Jeff,

In a 1/6/08 post I wrote:

"Today neither Panasonic remote nor the Philips remote would power on the two DMR-EZ17s. This is unlikely to be related to the remotes as the Panasonics wouldn't power on by pressing the power button on the machines themselves. When I pressed the open/close buttons on the machines the Panasonics did power on and open their trays. Since then both machines have been functioning normally and are entirely responsive to the three remotes . . . Is this a previously reported bug and fix?"

Today the same condition affected my second DMR-ES30V. (This is not the machine that I recently set aside for standby use after cleaning.) This machine is set up on the same power strip as were the two DMR-EZ17 models mentioned on 1/6/08. This DMR-ES30V was most recently used for a scheduled OTA recording on the morning of 1/14/08. Today, while the display showed the correct time, the machine would not respond to its remote, the machine's power button, or the open command for the DVD tray. I unplugged the machine's power cord for one minute and then plugged it back in. Still no response. Then I inserted a videotape and the machine came to life and started playing the tape. Now this DMR-ES30V is functional once again and responsive to its power button and remote. (One Toshiba VCR, one Dell computer, and an HP printer sharing the same power source were unaffected.)

Perhaps there is such a thing as "tired electricity" that has caused three different Panasonics to fall asleep.

jjeff

01-17-08, 08:36 AM

Digado-Actually I do have a good idea what is happening with the es-30, but feel kinda sheepish talking about here, on this EZ-17 thread. But since you posed the question here, and after a search I did not really find any EXTENSIVE thread on the es-30, here goes:
There is a bug on the es-30 that I discovered years ago. I could also repeat it, and tried to get Panasonic to correct it, but no luck. Even back then I could not get them to fix bugs I found! This problem effected all 3 of my 3 es-30's, so I'm sure I just don't have the only machines with the problem.
The bug involves the timer again.(I guess sometimes things don't change..) Anyway if a person programs the timer for a DVD event, does not insert a recordable DVD and then turns the machine off, the next day you will have almost an impossible time turning it back on.

The first time I did this I had an event programmed in for 1 week into the future. I was using the DVDR for playing DVD's daily, and knew the event was not for a week in the future, so after playing the DVD I did not put a blank DVD in the tray, because I knew I would just be playing another DVD tommarow, and would only need to remove the blank again. Well the next day I went to turn the DVDR on and NOTHING. It had the clock along with a little red clock time icon lite(which should not have been lite since there was no blank DVD in the tray). I tried everything, power cycle, 30 min. unplug, bang on all the buttons, etc. I was panicking. My new $300 DVDR and it just sat there unresponsive. In desperation I called Panasonic, they had me try all the reset methods etc. all to no avail. Finally they told me to leave it unplugged overnight and try it in the morning. I did this and it was still unresponsive in the morning. So I called Panasonic back, the next person had me try all the previous things, still nothing. Finally he gave me a RMA number and was giving me instructions to send my new DVDR in for service, when he said, try to put a VHS in.
Well I did that and wala, it came on in full glory.

From then on I never left a VHS in the machine during power off. I figured if this ever happened again(which it did many times before I figured the bug out) if I did have a VHS in the unit, it may never wake up since I could not insert a tape to wake it up.

The bug turned out to be if you had a schedule programed in to record to DVD for a future date, and turned the machine off, with no recordable DVD in the tray, and tried to turn the DVDR on the next day, NO go. Now if you just turned the machine back on the same day it was fine, it had to do with midnight again. In this bug the clock icon was a good indication of what was going on, unlike the timer bug on the EZ-17. On the es-30 if you turned the machine off, with no disc inserted and a timer event programmed, the clock icon would not come on. As it should, it is telling you there is a problem. The bug happens after midnight when the icon then comes on, which it should not, since there is no disc inserted.
Digado-does my chain of events for your unresponsive es-30 fit your case?
And no, Panasonic never did fix this ES-30 bug, I tried the latest firmware a few years ago, and still the bug is there.
I did call Panasonic back years ago to tell them my findings and suggested they should pass the info on, for any customer calling with the same problem, but I got the opinion that my info stopped at the CSR I was talking to....:mad: Nothing like reinventing the wheel with every call!!

Maybe there is a similar problem with your EZ-17, although personally I have not ran across it. And since it has no VHS to wake it up, I wouldnt have a clue how to wake it. Please document the occasions your EZ-17 does this, and try and figure a pattern. I have quite a log on all my Panny's documenting problems I've had. It sure helps for troubleshooting, something I would have hope the manufacture had done!!! You know, QC, product testing, all that stuff.:D:D

P.S. Sorry for the length of this post. It's just that I have never documented this problem before at AVS or any forum. I thought it might be helpful to someone. I suppose I should document on my "timer bug" thread, even if a bit late. To tell the truth I had actually forgot about it, until you brought it up. Probably not a lot of es-30 users out there anymore.

DigaDo

01-17-08, 01:03 PM

Jeff,

The DMR-ES30V scenario you described is exactly the one I experienced. After two and a half years of experience with two DMR-ES30V machines this is the first time this has happened. In recent months this DMR-ES30V has been the least used of my Panasonics set up for regular use. Currently this machine has one every-Monday half-hour program scheduled on PBS (OTA).

I should have mentioned two other pieces of information in my post:

1-The red clock timer indicator was on, just as you described. I thought that was odd as I knew there was no DVD in the drive.

2-I made sure the videotape had the security tab pulled so it would autoplay upon insertion. This is important as an intact security tab may not have caused the machine to come to life, in which case I might have added another complicating factor.

By the way, I have noticed two quirks on the other DMR-ES30V:

1-After a while the clock looses a minute or two.

2-The tuner changes the channel, for no apparent reason, to PBS channel 10 even though no recordings were made or scheduled for that channel.

I have reason to believe that the DMR-ES30V bug is the same as that of the DMR-EZ17 models mentioned in my 1/6/08 post. I had been checking out both machines and had swapped discs back and forth the evening before and shut them off before midnight. Neither DMR-EZ17s had recordable DVDs inserted. I know that my first DMR-EZ17 did have scheduled recordings awaiting at about noon the next morning, but I doubt that the other one did, but it might have as I was checking out that machine's operation before giving it to a relative on 1/7/08. Pressing the DVD open button brought these DMR-EZ17 models back to life.

Thank you again for sharing your information and experience.

wajo

01-17-08, 01:08 PM

Set clock manually (no auto-clock) and turn DST off (often called "Summer Time")?

DigaDo

01-17-08, 03:15 PM

Wajo,

Thank you for the tips.

Jeff,

I would hope that you might post your findings on a general Panasonic troubleshooting thread as it appears that the same bugs and design flaws exist in several models covering successive product generations.

jjeff

01-17-08, 05:00 PM

DigaDo-I will post the es-30 bug on the "missing scheduled events" thread maybe later tonight. I want to rewrite it. First one might have been confusing. Also the tape need not have the tab taken out. I never do that, and it woke up with a regular tape w/tab intact.
I've never noticed the time to be off on my es-30, and I always use autoclock set on, and DST on. I would suspect your local PBS station, or wherever the es-30 gets its signal. If that's the case, I would do as Wajo said, turn the features off.
As far as the different channels, I have had this happen several times to just one of my 3 es-30's. It goes to a channel that I never watch. It really never bothered me, but I did think it was odd.

I will try an experiment on my EZ-17 to see if it has the bug about having a event scheduled and no disc in it. I don't know if I have ever done this since I really never play on the EZ-17. I just record, so I always put a blank disc in the machine right after the first one is finished/finalized. I'm kinda scared to try this, because if I can't wake it without the VHS, but since you said the eject woke it up, I feel better. Plus the machine is still under warranty, but I hate sending things in.
It sure is funny how these bugs exist, and it seems to effect very few people. It's all in the manner of how a person uses the machine.

DigaDo

01-17-08, 05:32 PM

Jeff,

I'm not suggesting that you try this experiment.

I'm just saying that you should be aware that the DVD tray open button worked for two DMR-EZ17 models with January and February 2007 build dates.

The quirk I've noticed in the DMR-EZ17 scheduling menu, even after shutting down and powering the machine back on, the "OK" (Date) to record indicator for the remaining space on the inserted disc is almost never correct. When I know that there is room for one or more of the scheduled program(s) at the recording speed(s) I've selected, the menu still indicates that it can't record the program(s). But it does record it/them without problem. (The "OK" portion of the Schedule menu on my DMR-ES15, DMR-ES30V and DMR-ES35V models have always been accurate.)

I have to admit that I've not tried your test routine as I never use RW or RAM media and my DMR-EZ17 is set to record about six hours per week at EP (six hour setting). On older Panasonics, through careful scheduling and sometimes between two machines running in tandem, or with use of Flexible Recording to fit a recording to a partially filled DVD, I seldom (knowingly) exceed DVD media recording capacity. In those instances where I have exceeded the recording capacity I have found most, but not all older Panasonics just conclude recording without adverse consequences. But there have been a very few times where this occasioned lock-ups and/or a failed disc that can not be finalized.

And the bugs go on . . .

jjeff

01-17-08, 05:43 PM

Mr. Hanky

01-19-08, 06:01 PM

Anybody know what bitrate the audio is recorded in the ez17? Does it allow any adjustment or is it fixed?

EDIT: Fwiw, some test recordings from the digital tuner suggests that the ez17 employs 128 kb/s audio in ep mode and 256 kb/s audio for lp/sp mode. I presume xp mode will be 256 kb/s or higher, but I did not check. I don't know how they handle audio for FR mode, but I presume it would follow the same trends as ep/lp/sp/xp modes.

Mr. Hanky

01-20-08, 03:02 AM

I also have this other observation, and I have no idea if it is normal behavior or another bug. I noticed that if you leave the player on, just doing nothing, it seems to "shutdown" by itself after some time period. I have no idea how long it takes, but I notice it has done so if I leave the house and then come back some time later. The important detail here is that when I come back to find it in this state, the red clock is never activated (even though it should be, and would be had I shut it off manually).

jjeff

01-20-08, 08:13 AM

MrHanky-Not sure about your audio question, but the power down thing is something you can change in the setup. I have mine set for 2hrs, but I believe you can also select 6hrs or never turn off by itself.
I'm more worried about your red clock missing. That would tell me that it MAY not record your next scheduled program. That would be poor. Since you might see the machine off, and think everything was good to go with your next event! I can't remember if I ever tried to have the machine turn off by itself, and then see if it caught the next scheduled event(on second though I'm thinking maybe it did not record, you could try a test). If it didn't, I would call that another bug.
I sure wish Panasonic had NOT changed the EZ machines so they need to be OFF to start a scheduled event. On All my previous Panny DVDR's it doesn't matter if the DVDR is off or on, it will start a scheduled event. I sure liked this feature coming from VCR days, where all mine needed to be off. Seems like Panasonic took a step BACKWARDS with the EZ machines.
But remember the red clock on these EZ machines is not a reliable indication if the recording is going to actually work(at least in regards to the timer bug I've documented)

Mr. Hanky

01-20-08, 04:48 PM

I was thinking this behavior plus the behavior you guys have been trying to solve may be related. Maybe there is something faulty about the automated shutdown function. I'm presuming that the ez17 needs to trigger a similar function (if not, the same function) when it is at the end of a scheduled recording. So maybe this is suggesting that if it has to shutdown automatically, it is not properly enabling the triggering/timing mechanism for the next recording. This would also explain how manually powering up/down the device after the 1st recording is an effective solution to ensuring the 2nd recording takes care of itself (because it then effectively becomes the "1st" recording, at that point).

Another thing I wonder if you guys have tried- what if the 2nd recording is scheduled to be immediately following the first recording (so that no complete shutdown is allowed to occur)? Do you find that the 2nd recording then occurs reliably? I know this would not help you in actual circumstances if the scheduled times are not sequential. I was just wondering if you had tried a sequential scheduling scenario to see if it behaves differently. If so, that would be another indication that the timer bug has something to do with the auto-shutdown process.

jjeff

01-20-08, 06:44 PM

That's a maybe.......Actually for the most part sequential recording seem to record all the time. It mainly seems to be after the machine is off, and then goes across midnight. Then the next recording is not likely to record, without the power cycle.
I said maybe, because one of my U99 errors that locked up the machine, and made me exchange the machine, happened on a sequential recording. I had an event 7-8pm on one channel, then 8-9pm on another channel. The first event finished fine, then during the post recording mini finalizing the machine displayed 000000 for several minutes, followed by U99, which never cleared.
I don't think this is related to the bug, rather just a fluke.

jjeff

01-22-08, 11:01 AM

In the name of testing I'll give it a try. With all the repeats it's not like I'm using the machine that much anyway. Probably a good time to experiment. I won't blame you if it never wakes up, but you'd think Panasonic would have fixed this bug. After all the EZ-17 is more than 3 years after the es-30...which had that issue....

When I tried the test of programming in a scheduled event and turning off the DVDR on both my EZ-17 and ES-25. They both passed the test. That is the little red clock icon never came on, and the machine powered up normally the next day. So from this one time test, I'll assume the problem is more with the es-30 than the EZ-17 or ES-25. Note I only tried this one time, but on my es-30 it seemed to lock up all the time doing this test.

DigaDo

01-28-08, 02:19 AM

I have several DMR-ES35V, DMR-ES15 and DMR-EZ17 models.

Six of those I have opened for DVD drive spindle, hub, and lens cleaning have varying degrees of leakage of the largest electrolytic capacitor on the right chassis motherboard (on combo recorders) or the chassis motherboard (on DVD recorders without VHS sections). These are still functional recorders even with the leakage but I realize that these capacitors will need to be replaced at some point.

This brings up my question. Does the choice of the Quick Start "on" or "off" setting have any relation to longevity of electrolytic capacitors?

jjeff

01-28-08, 08:31 AM

If they were easy to get at, you could measure and see if there was any voltage on the caps when the unit was off, then remeasure with QS on. If turning QS on made them have voltage on them constantly, it could shorten there life.

hokiewolf

01-28-08, 12:22 PM

I'm waiting on delivery of my first DVD recorder, an EZ17, and have been reading the owner's manual online in preparation for initial set-up. I have basic cable(no set top box) daisychained, [cable from wall to 1st vcr rf in] [1st vcr rf out to 2nd vcr rf in] [2nd vcr rf out to rf in on a Philips 32" LCD HDTV.] Whenever I want to watch something from my VCRs, I change my TV channel to 3. I'm trying to figure out how to include the EZ17 into this mess. I don't see anything about switching the TV to a certain channel anywhere in the set-up of the EZ17, so I assume the RF signal is just being passed through the EZ17. Is this correct? If that's the case, even if I am only using the EZ17 as a tuner, would I need to switch my TV to whichever component input has the cables coming from the EZ17's component output? Hope someone can decipher this, because I sure can't. LOL

Danny in Yorktown, VA

rgazzara

01-28-08, 01:01 PM

The RF output from the EZ-17 only carries the signal input into the RF in connector. It DOES NOT carry any out put from the recorder, either from the tuner or from the DVD.

In order to see the output from the recorder, you need to connect the outputs from the back of the recorder to the TV, either the composite video (yellow connector), the S-video connector, or the component video (green, blue and red connectors). Plus you have to connect the audio out (red and white connectors).

Component is the best, followed by S-video and composite.

Bill1313

01-28-08, 01:13 PM

hokiewolf, What kind & "HOW MANY INPUTS" does you tv set have?
Yes, you are correct the EZ17's Antenna Output only a Passes on the antenna signal just like a splitter would & it doesn't send any A/V directly from the recorder.

For your tv to receive a picture from the recorder it must get it though one on the TVs Audio / Video Inputs.

ANTENNA CONNECTIONS:
Line Coming Into House Goes directly into the EZ17 Ant. IN
EZ17 Ant. OUT goes to VCR 1 Ant. IN
VCR 1 Ant. OUT goes to VCR 2 Ant. IN
VCR 2 Ant. OUT goes to TV Ant. IN

AUDIO/VIDEO CONNECTIONS:
EZ17 A/V OUT goes to TV A/V IN
VCR 1 A/V OUT goes to VCR 2 A/V IN
VCR 2 A/V OUT goes to EZ17 A/V IN

The way I have it Daisy Chained you can record from either of the VCRs to the EZ17 incase you want to dub Tapes to DVDs.

You can also still watch the VCRs on CH3 or from the INPUT on the EZ17.

TV - Same as before
EZ17 Set TV to Input
VCR 1 & 2 Set TV to Channel 3 Same as before

(You can also get VCR 1 & VCR 2 by setting the EZ17 to INPUT)
(To WATCH/Record VCR 1 set VCR 2 to INPUT)

For Picture Quality a lot is going to depend on how strong your Antenna Signal is too because it's really been split by the time it gets to the TV connection & that's why you want to connect the antenna cable 1st to the EZ17 so it can record the best signal possible.

jjeff

01-28-08, 04:19 PM

I agree, I would really never watch any of your VCR's through CH3 output. You will get better PQ using composite connections, even for the VCR's. If your TV only has one composite, just hook up the EZ-17 to that input, and continue to watch your VCR's through CH3.
Don't be tempted to hook up your EZ-17 through the line input of either of your VCR's. I tried that, thinking I could use the RF modulator of the VCR. Well it didn't work. I kept getting macrovision problems, even though I was not trying to record the signal, only pass it through the VCR. Actually one of my VCR's, a newer Sammy, allowed the pass through signal w/o macrovision problem, and would only get dark if I tried to record the signal, but it's better to feed the TV with the DVDR signal direct, and avoid the VCR pass through.

Mike99

01-28-08, 08:34 PM

I split the cable coming from the wall & feed the HDTV with one side & the EZ17 with the other. EZ17 Ant Out goes to ES20 (another Panny DVD recorder). ES20 Ant Out feeds S-VHS recorder. IOW the 3 recorders are daisy chained. I seem to recall passing the RF thru the ES20 & then to the HDTV, but this caused picture problems. That's when I decided to split the original signal from the wall (and before I got the EZ17).

The EZ17 & ES20 component outs go to the HDTV, and their optical outs go to the receiver. The S-VHS S-Video out goes to the HDTV, and L&R audio go to the receiver.

ES20 S-Video goes to the EZ17, along with L&R audio. This lets me copy a disc. I've copied tapes, but I have to swap cables around. I guess I should get a few more cables.

Bill1313

01-29-08, 12:00 AM

Mike99, I still like the idea of having the Main Cable TV Line going directly into the recorder first (The Recorder That Is Going To Be Used The Most).

That way you are not recording a split signal but the best possible signal available without Amps. from that line.

In other setups if I needed more antenna connections I would then use a splitter on the line that came out of the first recorder & if the signal wasn't up to par then I would add a Signal Amp. onto the line coming out of the recorder & work from there.

There are really a whole bunch of ways to daisy chain the antenna cables so you really have to experiment to see which works best & I hate to say it but the best is really a Signal Amp. with enough outputs on it to go to each piece of gear you have so the signal remains exactly the same to each item that needs an antenna connection.

But that's just me. If your happy with the signal you record then that's all that counts.

hokiewolf

01-29-08, 12:54 AM

The RF output from the EZ-17 only carries the signal input into the RF in connector. It DOES NOT carry any out put from the recorder, either from the tuner or from the DVD.

My cable splits at the wall and 1/2 feeds two VCRs and the LCD HDTV, the other 1/2 feeds only my cable modem. Since the EZ17 RF connectors are just passing the signal through, I wonder if I could put the EZ17 first in line in front of my cable modem(for high speed internet). If my internet speed suffers, I'll know it's a no go, but I'm curious if anyone else has ever hooked their DVD recorder up on the same line that eventually feeds their cable modem.

hokiewolf

01-29-08, 01:16 AM

hokiewolf, What kind & "HOW MANY INPUTS" does you tv set have?
Yes, you are correct the EZ17's Antenna Output only a Passes on the antenna signal just like a splitter would & it doesn't send any A/V directly from the recorder.
Bill, AV1 and AV2 on the back of the TV have both component inputs as well as composite inputs for video and L/R audio. AV3 and the Side Panel each have composite inputs as well as an S-video input. The TV also has an HDMI input on the back, but I don't think that would apply to the EZ17, would it?

Bill, I want to thank you and the others for your detailed explanations. You gave me exactly the information I so poorly requested.

Mike99

01-29-08, 03:36 AM

hokiewolf,

Correct, the EZ17 does not have an HDMI output.

I also suggest trying both component 480i and component 480p output. For me the 480i looked a bit better. IOW the TV was a doing a better job at converting the signal than the EZ17. The same held true for the ES20, which others also previously commented on. However I only noticed this on programs I recorded. There did not seem to be a difference with commercial DVDs.

"Way back when", I did try having the TV daisy chained at the end of the ES 20 and/or S-VHS and the picture was distorted, at least on some of the channels. I previously did try passing thru the EZ17 then to the TV just to see what would happen and all looked OK. But after my earlier experiment I just felt better having the TV get a direct feed vs going thru another component. A Comcast tech was out to do some troubleshooting and checked my signal strength and said it was very good, so I felt my split would be OK. Of course YMMV. Try hooking up your EZ17 before and after your main split & compare the PQ. There may be no perceptable difference.

jjeff

01-29-08, 07:22 AM

I wonder if I could put the EZ17 first in line in front of my cable modem(for high speed internet). If my internet speed suffers, I'll know it's a no go, but I'm curious if anyone else has ever hooked their DVD recorder up on the same line that eventually feeds their cable modem.

Please let us know how this worked. On the Philips 3575 thread Wajo wanted to have someone try this, to check if the DVDR was "bi-directional". That is if the signal was able to go backwards through the DVDR back to the host. I don't think he ever got a firm response if this was possible. Your test would verify if the EZ-17 was bi-directional and if it did work I'd also be curious if there was any speed drop on your internet.

rgazzara

01-29-08, 08:14 AM

My cable splits at the wall and 1/2 feeds two VCRs and the LCD HDTV, the other 1/2 feeds only my cable modem. Since the EZ17 RF connectors are just passing the signal through, I wonder if I could put the EZ17 first in line in front of my cable modem(for high speed internet). If my internet speed suffers, I'll know it's a no go, but I'm curious if anyone else has ever hooked their DVD recorder up on the same line that eventually feeds their cable modem.

I had a similar hookup recently, and the Comcast internet guy who hooked it up said the cable modem needed a direct connect from a splitter. But, you can try it and see.

hokiewolf

01-29-08, 09:09 AM

I also suggest trying both component 480i and component 480p output. For me the 480i looked a bit better. IOW the TV was a doing a better job at converting the signal than the EZ17.

Mike, I'm probably misunderstanding what you're saying about 480i and 480p. According to my manual, there appears to be only one set of component outs on the EZ17. I don't see an i or p on the diagram of the unit's back. The only reference for 480i and 480p is when choosing the setting for TV Type. Is that what you're referring to?

rgazzara

01-29-08, 01:11 PM

Mike, I'm probably misunderstanding what you're saying about 480i and 480p. According to my manual, there appears to be only one set of component outs on the EZ17. I don't see an i or p on the diagram of the unit's back. The only reference for 480i and 480p is when choosing the setting for TV Type. Is that what you're referring to?

Look on page 46 of the manual, under "selecting TV type". There you will see that there is a choice between 480i and 480p.

Mike99

01-29-08, 06:55 PM

hokiewolf,

As mentioned, you have to select the TV type. And of course you have set your TV accordingly.

When I was experimenting between i & p, sometimes the EZ17 gave a darker picture. But I was able to reset to the normal brightness by turning the EZ17 completely off, which means also turning off the "Instant On" feature. So I went back & forth looking for the sharpest picture and disregarded the darkness. When done I powered down & when turned back on everything looked good. Same thing happened with my ES20.

drummingman

01-30-08, 12:10 PM

Because I am a long time user of Panasonic DVD recording equipment (DMR-EH) and despite the numerous mentions of timed event lock-ups, I purchased the DMR-EZ27K at CC. Last night on a timed event at 6:30PM, I ran into the dreaded lock-up, all 0000's and the blinking "REC". After reading through this thread a second time, I got the impression that the first recording of a given day will always work but the second and subsequent recordings within that same day will not trigger a proper recording event. So I decided to run a quick test. Using the Scheduler I did the following:

Freq = Sun-Sat Time On = 09:30 Time Off = 09:35 Speed = EP
Freq = Sun-Sat Time On = 09:40 Time Off = 09:45 Speed = EP
Freq = Sun-Sat TIme On = 09:50 Time Off = 09:55 Speed = EP

All of these timed events functioned properly. System turned on approximately 55 seconds prior to the "On" time, Channel Number was selected, Time went to "0000", "REC" blinked, then at the proper start time the timer commenced up-counting. The unit then shut down with the cascading 0's and the final "Bye" at Time Off.

This little experiment surprised me because based on what I have read in the thread the 9:40 and 9:50 events should have locked up but they did not.
It is obvioulsy not my settings because the unit (April 2007 Build Date) did lock up on me last night.

Maybe someone can refresh my memory. Has it been stated that if you power up and then power down the unit sometime prior to the days first scheduled recording that all timed events for that day will all record without a problem? If so, then that would explain why all of my timed events worked correctly.

jjeff

01-30-08, 05:43 PM

First I think the 00000 thing is separate from the timer bug I documented here
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=970828
With the timer bug I found the problem had more to due with the first event being a weekly(or possible also a daily) event, and the first event totally filled up the disc. Then if the second event was the next(or future) days, and you did not power up the DVDR at least once the following or later days(sometime before the next event) the second event would never record. Note there are some very specific rules in this bug that will make the second event not record. So I don't want anybody thinking this will effect all second or subsequent recordings, unless the previous circumstances occurred.

I'm sure this is why there are not more people experiencing this problem. It's just that personally it effects me a lot. I use weekly events all the time, and usually totally fill up the disc with each recording, and never use my DVDR to play. So I don't normally power up the machine between recordings.
Hope this clarifies things for you. And from looking at your schedules I see no reason they would not all record, at least as far as the timer bug. There are more bugs, such as the 0000000 pause problem, that I too have experienced a few times, but I cannot duplicate that bug enough to really know what is happening. I don't think it follows any pattern. I think it's more related to the flakiness of the EZ machines.