.

This being Projector Central, the obvious question is did they know enough to view on a display device capable of displaying a multiple of 24P! :)

We know of at least 1 1080p display device capable of displaying at a multiple of 24P, but according to PC, that device is not very good! :)

All of you spending thousands on video processors and projectors with 24p capability should save your money! There is apparently no difference whatsoever between 24p, which you see in the movie theatre, and 60p output. Judder is all in your imaginations, and you've been manipulated with a Jedi mind trick.

http://projectorcentral.com/hd_disc_players.htm

Damn those Jedi!!! :mad: :mad:

My RS1 fed by the Pioneer BDP-HD1 begs to differ with ProjectorCentral....

Damn those Jedi!!! :mad: :mad:

this isn't the projector I'm looking for....

:D

Move along....

lol

He might be confusing motion 'judder' with motion 'stutter' and more obvious motion blur due to the low FPS of film. I certainly wasn't "blown away" by 24p when I saw it. You trade one evil for another with a lot of shots.

He might be confusing motion 'judder' with motion 'stutter' and more obvious motion blur due to the low FPS of film. I certainly wasn't "blown away" by 24p when I saw it. You trade one evil for another with a lot of shots.

People using the new Canon HDV camcorders which can shoot in 24p are noticing the same thing !!

What gets me is Ebert and Roper who review movies all the time on as big as a 80 foot tall IMAX screen don't complain about this. Yet as soon as it becomes about a four foot tall screen, now there is stutter?
Of course. IMAX screens (and movie theaters in general) don't have a 3:2 telecine pattern.

No. Instead you get flicker for free. :)

I'm no scientist but I know when I go to the movies the flicker gives me a headache (unless it's on a digital, which has its own potential problems). 2.5ms refresh is 400fps. Moviefilms don't project at that speed. In any case, displaying the same image 400 times per second doesn't change the fact that the image content doesn't update but 24 times a second, which still lends itself to 'jumpy' motion on slow pans. Faster pans merely make everything look blurry thanks to the individual frame (be it digital or film) being exposed longer.

Removing the telecine rids you of one artifact, only to more clearly display two others that are equally annoying and inherent to the filming process.

60fps is too 'literal' for film, but I think we can safely move ahead to 30fps now. Not that it will happen any time soon, with all the editing and processing gear set up for 24fps.

He might be confusing motion 'judder' with motion 'stutter' and more obvious motion blur due to the low FPS of film. I certainly wasn't "blown away" by 24p when I saw it. You trade one evil for another with a lot of shots.

I don't quite follow you there. What evils do you get when playing 24 fps back at say 48 Hz, instead of playing the same 24 fps back at 60 Hz?

Using 24 fps for _recording_, instead of 60 Hz, obviously won't be an improvement, but that's not the point of 24 fps playback.

Yep the fuzzy unsharp Pearl! Which will accept a 1080p24 signal and display as 1080p96hz. The Pearl doesn't even make the top five :(
Your top five? For me the "fuzzy unsharp" is not comprehensible. It looks very movie-like, I spend some time viewing it and I am very pleased with this projector, that's the reason why I finally bought it.
1080/24p is a feature that the Pearl obviously got, but no current HD or Blue Ray player is able to output 24p, this will be fixed in the future with firmware updates for some of the actual players around. Thus resulting in the same speed a movie is played in the cinemas, and I never saw any jerking playback there...

but no current HD or Blue Ray player is able to output 24p, this will be fixed in the future with firmware updates for some of the actual players around.

Owners of the Pioneer BDP-HD1 and Sony BDP-S1 might disagree w/ this statement. ;)
p.s.
Sony owners are waiting for firmware to correct AVC codec 24p playback(other codecs play fine at 24p)

I am surprised they would say they don't see a difference. I am still using an old Sony VPL-VW10HT. I picked up an ISCAN-HD about a year ago because my ISCAN Ultra died. Looking through my VW10HT manual I saw that this old projector accepts 1080i/48Hz refresh. I setup the ISCAN-HD to force the VW10HT into this mode and it was amazing how much smoother pans are. It isn't noticeable all the time but its there. I go back to 60Hz now and it looks jumpy in some scenes. Less smooth.

Now this is on an old projector and its noticeable...Are they blind?

maybe a good review will help us to understand the Samsung bd 1200, as i am very interested in this player t pair it up with the mits HC 5000

It's a little befuddling when the reviewer starts a paragraph with this statement:

The BDP-HD1 had the best video performance in the roundup, because of the noteworthy addition of 1080p/24.

And then, in the same paragraph, concludes that:

we could not see a clear, discernable difference between 1080p/60 and 1080p/24 with the equipment we were using for this shootout.

So how does a feature you cannot see determine the best video performance?

I have tried hard to see judder on both my Hitachi TX100 and TX200 out of curiosity and I've NEVER seen it. I've used Panasonic dvd players with component and SDI and used different frame rates and tried motion video and the judder test in my iScan HD+ and I've never seen it. Is that because the iScan HD+ is performing such that I don't see it? Or is it my projector? Or am I just not susceptible to it?

Good point Bob!!

He might be confusing motion 'judder' with motion 'stutter' and more obvious motion blur due to the low FPS of film. ....

Yeah it makes me wonder if he can even tell the difference between a waltz (1,2,3 1,2,3 i.e. regular old 24 fps stutter ) and the cha cha (1,2 cha cha cha 3,4 cha cha cha i.e. 3:2 pulldown judder). PJ Central must be rhythm challenged. :rolleyes:

Yet again, another juicy nugget of wisdom from the good folks at Projector Central :rolleyes:

Huh? Isn't the 1080p24 output from a player such as the Pioneer Blu-ray exactly like the frame rate at the movie theater which is 24 frames doubled to 48? But in the case of the RS1 and Pearl quadrupled to 96? The 3:2 pattern doesn't exist on HD-DVD and Blu-ray the discs and is stored as 24p?

Wildfire:

I don't see how 2.5 ms refresh will give you flicker?
It's very simple. 1080p60 displays will have 3:2 pattern when showing films. 1080p24 displays won't.

Apparently ProjectorCentral doesn't care about this difference. I wouldn't know, since I don't read their articles.