Hey.Everyone has their opinions, but I need some help from you people who know alot about speaker cable

Anyone know any good speaker cables in the $600-1,000 range?

I've heard some good stuff about the monster cable m2.2s, but I was thinking maybe silver cables would be my best option. Anyone have an opinion?

Please don't reply if your going to say "don't waste your time" thanks, I know I am!

Anyone know any good speaker cables in the $600-1,000 range?

I saw spools of 6 gauge cable at the Home Depot for about that much. You will provably get less loss with that wire than with most commercial speaker wires (even the higher-brand ones). The main draw-back is that it looks very industrial, and splicing connectors on is hard (you'll have to splice yourself).

Another good choice is the BJC White Ten (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm) which is cheaper than you indicated, but gets re-branded and sold more expensively by some brands (basically, you'd be buying it "wholesale.").

Please don't reply if your going to say "don't waste your time" thanks, I know I am!
I'm not going to say "Don't waste your time..." However, if you already "know" this is a waste, then why ask the question? (Of course, if your "...thanks, I know I am!" is a sarcastic comment, then it would be helpful to label it as such with a :rolleyes: ).

I won't make any judgemental comments about spending large amounts of $$ on cables. However, I will ask if you have done the simple and (relatively) inexpensive things to enhance your system, such as ROOM TREATMENTS? You can certainly have a *much* bigger impact on your sound system with $600 to $1,000 spent on room treatments than the same $$$ spent on silver cables.

Just my $0.02.

Craig

Whats that smell?

Oh its a TROLL.

I saw spools of 6 gauge cable at the Home Depot for about that much. You will provably get less loss with that wire than with most commercial speaker wires (even the higher-brand ones). The main draw-back is that it looks very industrial, and splicing connectors on is hard (you'll have to splice yourself).

Another good choice is the BJC White Ten (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm) which is cheaper than you indicated, but gets re-branded and sold more expensively by some brands (basically, you'd be buying it "wholesale.").

I'm considering buying monster cable z2 speaker wire by the foot. I can get that and the Canare 4S11 for the same price ($1.00 a foot)...? The z2 retails $5 a foot ($1 a foot is quite good). I don't mainly go by pricing but the Z2 looks like it is really fantastic quality, plus audioreview says its pretty goos. Wonder what you guys would think.

http://www.monstercable.com/images_db/home_av/z_series/speaker_cable/Z2RML_glamtech_bkrnd.jpg

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/4s11.jpg
(blue jeans)

from this thread...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=712268

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=62272

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=62271

Both of them will get the signal to your speaker without perceptible degradation. One of them looks prettier than the other, though :-)

I'm assuming you already have room treatments, as craig john says. If you're into the high end, I would recommend the SonoSuede (http://www.auralex.com/sound_absorption_sonosuede/sonosuede.asp) panels from Auralex -- they cost more than comparables, but also look better. There's also the gorgeous SpaceArray (http://www.auralex.com/partscience/spacearray.asp) for diffusion.

If you're hell bent on 100% silver cables, why not simply buy a very large spool of teflon coated silver wire and braid your own. You should be able to google some sources up.

Both of them will get the signal to your speaker without perceptible degradation. One of them looks prettier than the other, though :-)

I'm assuming you already have room treatments, as craig john says. If you're into the high end, I would recommend the SonoSuede (http://www.auralex.com/sound_absorption_sonosuede/sonosuede.asp) panels from Auralex -- they cost more than comparables, but also look better. There's also the gorgeous SpaceArray (http://www.auralex.com/partscience/spacearray.asp) for diffusion.

No I don't plan on getting room treatments. I'm just looking for some wire. I think i might just go z2 since its such a good deal @ 96 cents a foot including shipping..plus I think its 8 gauge. Thanks.

andy

No I don't plan on getting room treatments. I'm just looking for some wire. I think i might just go z2 since its such a good deal @ 96 cents a foot including shipping..plus I think its 8 gauge. Thanks.

andy

:confused: :eek: :(

Priorities in the wrong place. Oh well, good luck Andy. Enjoy your cable.

From the Monster website:
FEATURES

Measurements:
Outer Diameter: 13.22mm
Variance: +/- .1mm

Hear It the Way the Producer or Director Intended
Your speaker cables play an important role in accurately delivering the full power and depth of audio signals from your music or home theatre source to your speakers. Through years of critical listening. Monster Cable® has found that the best cable designs go beyond just large-guage conductors. Construction methods,precision windings and insulating materials all have a profound effect on what you hear. Z2 Reference combines many of Monster's finest speaker cable technologies for superior performance from today's audiophile stereo and home theatre systems

Time Correct® Windings with Monster's Patented Magnetic Flux Tube® for Increased Audio Accuracy
Z2 Reference features six bass conductors and several mid/high frequency conductor networks wound around Monster's patented Magnetic Flux Tube®,specially designed to control distrotion-producing magnetic fields for better clarity and soundstage. Meticulously constructed using Time Correct windings, Z2 ensures that low,mid and high frequency signals arrive at the same time for smoother , more natural sound and improved imaging.

MultiTwist Construction and Pex Dielectric for enhanced depth and Reproduction of Inner detail
Z2 Reference incorporates our famous MultiTwist construction,an ultra-tight winding of connectors resulting in enhanced sonic performance with superior noise rejection throughout the audio bandwidth. Combined with our specially formulated PEX dielectric,Z2 Reference offers incredibly low dynamic noise and startling realism in your favorite music and film soundtracks. You'll hear details you never heard before - from nuances in vocals and dialog to high frequency detail like the rustling of leaves,to the low-end rumbling of the loudest explosion

Monster's 24K Gold Contact, Precision Machined Connectors Maximize Signal Transfer
Z2 Reference features precision-machined Monster® pins, bananas, spades, or any combination for high integrity signal transfer with a tight connection to speakers and components. The 24K gold contacts provide maximum corrosion resistance for long term reliability.

Enjoy More Dimensional Sound from Your Speakers
Z2 Reference combines advanced technologies to accurately transfer audio signals to your stereo or home theatre surround speakers, down to the last detail - soundstage, imaging, dynamic range and resolution. It offers precision performance that lets you enjoy music and films the way the producer or director intended.

Cough, cough,... gasp, gasp,... the smell of buIIshit is so high in here I can't breathe.

Craig

Edit: To give credit where "credit" is due:
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=35

After using Monster for years I read this article (http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/cables/diy-speaker-cable-faceoff) and ran down to Home Depot and bought their equivalent of the 10/4 and I couldn't be happier. Big honkin' cable, gold bananas, cool. Does it sound any better? Heck, my Klipsches drop off at about 15k, so I wouldn't have a clue. They sure do look cool though :cool: .

:confused: :eek: :(

Priorities in the wrong place. Oh well, good luck Andy. Enjoy your cable.

From the Monster website:


Cough, cough,... gasp, gasp,... the smell if buIIshit is so high in here I can't breathe.

Craig

Edit: To give credit where "credit" is due:
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=35

It's only a $.96 a foot and it's decent 8 awg. I could see if it was like $10 a foot, but now your just bashing cable just to bash it because your so old school. lol. If I could find something for a better deal @ $1 a foot I'd take it. I could care less who makes my cable, just as long as it's quality, will stand the test of time, and I guess looking good is a plus as well since my cable will be partially visible.

Room treatments would be great, but everyone has different circumstances.

Priorities in the wrong place? I don't wanna spend thousands of dollars worth of audio equipment then go to home depot and buy some powercord because I want to remain "elite" and "old school". I swear some of you people here are so annoying and bash everything. Bash bash bash. Bash me now please thanks.

ACtualyl **** it. That was my last straw. In general, I think I'm done posting here. Every other post is sarcastic, rude, and the general "know it all" attitude. I've never been on a forum with such an overwhelming bad vibe. Although not everyone here has a bad vibe, many people do. Good game.

I think $0.96 per foot is a fine price for a quality cable. Not excessively pricey (although if you really wanted to, you could save some money).

When craig john said "wrong priorities," he implied that room treatments would give you a noticeable improvement in sound for about the same amount of money. I e: monoprice speaker cable + room treatments @ $X sounds better than no room treatments + cable @ $X.

It's only a $.96 a foot and it's decent 8 awg. I could see if it was like $10 a foot, but now your just bashing cable just to bash it because your so old school. lol. If I could find something for a better deal @ $1 a foot I'd take it. I could care less who makes my cable, just as long as it's quality, will stand the test of time, and I guess looking good is a plus as well since my cable will be partially visible.

Room treatments would be great, but everyone has different circumstances.

Priorities in the wrong place? I don't wanna spend thousands of dollars worth of audio equipment then go to home depot and buy some powercord because I want to remain "elite" and "old school". I swear some of you people here are so annoying and bash everything. Bash bash bash. Bash me now please thanks.

ACtualyl **** it. That was my last straw. In general, I think I'm done posting here. Every other post is sarcastic, rude, and the general "know it all" attitude. I've never been on a forum with such an overwhelming bad vibe. Although not everyone here has a bad vibe, many people do. Good game.

Andy,

I'm sorry if I came across as "bashing" you. I was more intent on bashing the nonsense in the Monster propaganda:
Time Correct® Windings with Monster's Patented Magnetic Flux Tube® for Increased Audio Accuracy
MultiTwist Construction and Pex Dielectric for enhanced depth and Reproduction of Inner detail
etc.

If you can find this cable for $0.96/ft. (or 1/5th of it's MSRP) it's probably not a bad deal. However, you can also probably do better:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=2790&seq=1&format=2&style=
Monoprice 12 ga. @ $0.25/ft.
Do you really *need* 8 ga.? Only if your cable run is about 100 ft. long.

On the subject of "priorities" and room treatments, I will say this: I honestly feel it is misguided to spend big $$$, (or to use your words; "thousands of dollars worth of audio equipment"), and completely ignore the second most dominant source of sound in your room: YOUR ROOM!. Your speakers produce the initial sound, and it is important that they receive a high quality signal to do so. However, after the speakers produce the sound, your room reflects and re-reflects, and re-re-reflects that sound, until what you ultimately hear can be something totally different than what the speakers initially put out.

The only way to control this is with room treatments. Absorbing the early reflections, reducing slap and flutter echo and using bass traps are the *only* ways to neutralize the effect of your room on the sound you hear. Using really expensive speaker cables, interconnects and power cords may make some minute audible differences in your sound quality. Reducing the influence of your room will make a *huge* difference.

This is why I said your priorities are in the wrong place. If that's old school and "bashing", well, I'm sorry, but that's my logic and I'm stickin' to it.

Craig

I've been using the z2 for a few years now. When goodguys went out of business I was able to pick up pairs for like $20 if I recall the price correctly. I can't say that it made that much of a difference in my system which is moderate.
Last month I finally got around to 'treating' my room with 705 and that made a much bigger difference than the cable ever could have. Just my 2c...

I've been using the z2 for a few years now. When goodguys went out of business I was able to pick up pairs for like $20 if I recall the price correctly. I can't say that it made that much of a difference in my system which is moderate.
Last month I finally got around to 'treating' my room with 705 and that made a much bigger difference than the cable ever could have. Just my 2c...

Well, from my understanding, having a dielectric and "multitwist" certianly will/might help some with noise rejection, or at least I've seen arguments for both. Not actually "multitwist", but the concept like multitwist...the more the better.


Andy,

If you can find this cable for $0.96/ft. (or 1/5th of it's MSRP) it's probably not a bad deal. However, you can also probably do better:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=2790&seq=1&format=2&style=
Monoprice 12 ga. @ $0.25/ft.
Do you really *need* 8 ga.? Only if your cable run is about 100 ft. long.

On the subject of "priorities" and room treatments, I will say this: I honestly feel it is misguided to spend big $$$, (or to use your words; "thousands of dollars worth of audio equipment"), and completely ignore the second most dominant source of sound in your room: YOUR ROOM!. Your speakers produce the initial sound, and it is important that they receive a high quality signal to do so. However, after the speakers produce the sound, your room reflects and re-reflects, and re-re-reflects that sound, until what you ultimately hear can be something totally different than what the speakers initially put out.

The only way to control this is with room treatments. Absorbing the early reflections, reducing slap and flutter echo and using bass traps are the *only* ways to neutralize the effect of your room on the sound you hear. Using really expensive speaker cables, interconnects and power cords may make some minute audible differences in your sound quality. Reducing the influence of your room will make a *huge* difference.

This is why I said your priorities are in the wrong place. If that's old school and "bashing", well, I'm sorry, but that's my logic and I'm stickin' to it.

Craig


Room treatments might not be a bad idea, still am not 100% on stuff, never said I wasn't going to do it, I'm still buying stuff.

I think I need lower awg then 12..300 watts @ 8 ohms up to 25 ft..plus just to be safe anyways.

No matter what, I can't see myself getting $.25 a foot 12 gauge generic speaker wire. No matter what. That would be like buying a BMW and getting plastic rims. Although in this situation, performance actually is subjective. Not that the speaker wire will enhance sound or make a system sound better, it certainly will not make it sound worse which I'm positive has happened to me before.

If you are compelled to believe the speaker wire will make any audio difference at all, that's fine. Be also compelled to believe that neither the wire, nor the speakers, can overcome the laws of physics ... if you do not tune and calibrate your room (and system) whatever gain super magic speaker wire might give you will be lost in the mush of reverberation, echo, SBIR, and other gremlins in your room.

Anytime wire is covered with something, whether it's PVC, polyethylene, teflon, you name it, that something is called a dielectric. As far as noise rejection due to the geometry of the wire, that's enormously speculative. I have no idea if the wire you're considering is 8 gauge, but if that's what you want, then buy it. Then move on to more productive matters.

I think I need lower awg then 12..300 watts @ 8 ohms up to 25 ft..plus just to be safe anyways.


Andy I'm running 250wpc and 12ga wire works just fine over a distance of 35-40 ft.

You already have your mind made up but I can assure you that 8ga is unnecessary for your installation.

I know you don't want to hear facts about it, but 16ga wire would work perfectly fine from an electrical standpoint at a distance of only 25ft. The added resistance of the wire would be only about 1.3% of the speaker value and the voltage drop at full power would be only about 0.3V.

It's understandable that you don't want to use some thin-looking 16ga wire, and that's fine, but 8ga - come on, that's Mr. Overkill at his finest...

Well, from my understanding, having a dielectric and "multitwist" certianly will/might help some with noise rejection, or at least I've seen arguments for both. Not actually "multitwist", but the concept like multitwist...the more the better.


Most wires have an insulator over them, this is also called a dielectric.

Twisted wires don't eliminate noise, there is no speculation here, just a fact.

For twisted wires to give you noise rejection, you have to have a differential circuit. This certainly provides noise rejection for LAN cabling, but wouldn't for speaker cables.

ACtualyl **** it. That was my last straw. In general, I think I'm done posting here. Every other post is sarcastic, rude, and the general "know it all" attitude. I've never been on a forum with such an overwhelming bad vibe. Although not everyone here has a bad vibe, many people do. Good game.

There are resident trolls here that, if one didn't know better, are paid debunkers.

Always remember this simple fact:

Anything that scientists can't use to support a paradigm is not evidence to them in that case.

Act like a lawyer instead. Instead of starting with a hypothesis to create a fact, start with a fact and create a theory that supports it. The fact is, you perceive a better result with better cables, and many have before you. Now discover under what circumstances that happens and why. Don't be like some here--assuming there is no difference, and working your tail off to prove it. It's much more interesting and open minded.

And overall, enjoy your system!

There are resident trolls here that, if one didn't know better, are paid debunkers.

Always remember this simple fact:

Anything that scientists can't use to support a paradigm is not evidence to them in that case.

Act like a lawyer instead. Instead of starting with a hypothesis to create a fact, start with a fact and create a theory that supports it. The fact is, you perceive a better result with better cables, and many have before you. Now discover under what circumstances that happens and why. Don't be like some here--assuming there is no difference, and working your tail off to prove it. It's much more interesting and open minded.

And overall, enjoy your system!

The flaw, however, is your implication that none of the naysayers have tried it themselves. ;)

Lawyers looking for the truth? What's the world coming to?

Anything that scientists can't use to support a paradigm is not evidence to them in that case.
You missed the concept of falsifiability with regards to the scientific method I think.

You missed the concept of falsifiability with regards to the scientific method I think.

I think, if you read his posts on this site, that he is missing more than the concept of falsifiability, he seems to be missing his mind. But of course thats JMHO.

You missed the concept of falsifiability with regards to the scientific method I think.

The problem is that you think you have some way to "falsify" the fact that some people do in fact perceive these differences. I think that's a hit-and-miss proposition.

But, let's not resurrect this dead horse.

If the OP wants to get good stuff without worrying about any chinks in the armor, that's his business. My point was to remind him that this is a hobby, and to experiment on his own and make his own determinations, given that he will be listening with his ears.

The flaw, however, is your implication that none of the naysayers have tried it themselves. ;)

Actually, my implication is that none of the naysayers don't already think they have all the answers, so instead of attempting to prove themselves wrong, they do everything possible to cling onto "known" (for the moment) "fact" and spend their days defending that.

...My point was to remind him that this is a hobby, and to experiment on his own and make his own determinations, given that he will be listening with his ears.

No, your point was to insult those posters that you have had an ongoing issue with for quite a long time. You just didn't post your opinion on the OP's question, you took the time to get on your soap box and fire a few volleys across several bows. You seem to search specific threads and use them as a forum to insult, ridicule, and mock, anybody with a differing opinion. Asking for data to support a position is not an unreasonable request. Especially when it comes to things that "seem" to fly against reason. Sorry for my earlier post, it was juvenile in tone but I was just having some fun. Clearly out of line.

The problem is that you think you have some way to "falsify" the fact that some people do in fact perceive these differences. I think that's a hit-and-miss proposition.Look it up schticker. You don't understand what that means. As a brief example, Einstein's theory of relativity predicts that light will bend by a given amount when it passes an object with a strong gravitational field. Hence, it's either true or false. It's testable. If the experiments that were done didn't support the amount of deflection when measured during a solar eclipse, the theory would be falsified. Otherwise, you're just dealing in faith.

BTW, I gave the OP a way that he could roll his own cables out of silver. Your suggestion was?

Your suggestion was?Have a lawyer look into it :D Kidding only.

There's one thing that taught me a lot about speaker and interconnect cables. Competition car audio design.

A house/apartment is not subject to the sources of noise and distortion that an automobile is. I have to say, some of the home audio cable products I've seen and read about simply make me laugh. I truly wish I didn't have morals, that way I could be rich too. :)

Look it up schticker. You don't understand what that means. As a brief example, Einstein's theory of relativity predicts that light will bend by a given amount when it passes an object with a strong gravitational field. Hence, it's either true or false. It's testable.

Your theory is there will not be an audible difference from one interconnect to the next. Depending on the listener in a DBT, there will or won't be. That's really the only test that can be applied involving the only relevant variable--the human ear of the specific listener. There is no "true or false" here. I understand perfectly how you wish to apply the concept of falsification in this case, hence my response.

If the experiments that were done didn't support the amount of deflection when measured during a solar eclipse, the theory would be falsified. Otherwise, you're just dealing in faith.

LOL if DBTs don't prove there is no difference, what then? And yeah, it's happened, many times. No faith involved--just sighted testimony. Just because humans are flawed doesn't mean differences cannot exist. Some days, caffeine has more of an effect on individuals than others, but it doesn't mean there is no effect on humans. You could test a hallucinogen for the effect on the human brain, but you have no idea what the person is experiencing under the influence. Same thing. To discount emotional, autonomic responses in a situation like this kinda defeats the purpose. Any of this making sense to you? Maybe after you "test" it.

Listen, I realize faith is a bad word to science, because it involves things out of their reach, but "faith" like "prejudice" has a foundation in examples and a reason to exist. You act as though things happen in a vacuum without a cause for existence. Everything affects everything else.

BTW, I gave the OP a way that he could roll his own cables out of silver. Your suggestion was?

Do whatever he wants. Have fun with the process. What else is there in this hobby?

On an aside, I've often wondered about the ability of humans to study the human mind. Scientists apparently have discounted the concept that their prejudices will not affect their hypotheses and outlooks. Kind of ironic that the same people that say it is impossible for people to turn off external stimuli are the same ones that attempt to explain it, as if it doesn't affect them in that process. Maybe you have some insight into how that can happen.

Schticker - Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears to me that you are supporting "perceived value".

This is how many retailers make their millions. There are still far too many consumers out there that believe in "you get what you pay for". Although somewhat still true, the danger is in the consumers that believe in paying more = getting more.

Schticker,

Your attitude toward science in a forum that really is all about the fruits of the labor of many scientists that have toiled in the past is just mind boggling to me. Your complaints about science and scientists not having all the answers as you fire up your (fill in the blank with your own system) just looks really well-dumb.

.... and this one time, at band camp. ;)

Your theory is there will not be an audible difference from one interconnect to the next. Depending on the listener in a DBT, there will or won't be. That's really the only test that can be applied involving the only relevant variable--the human ear of the specific listener. There is no "true or false" here. I understand perfectly how you wish to apply the concept of falsification in this case, hence my response.
The findings to date are consistent with what's known regarding the human ear. You propose what? That a person can detect a 0.1 or 0.4 dB drop at 20 kHz using dissimilar interconnects?

I never said differences can't exist. Simply that there are ways that one can reliably establish that for themselves. The rest of your comments have no relevance to the topic at hand. Well, they do to a salesman!

On an aside, I've often wondered about the ability of humans to study the human mind. Scientists apparently have discounted the concept that their prejudices will not affect their hypotheses and outlooks.Gee, I've always wondered why God didn't make little green apples, and it don't rain in Indianapolis, in the summertime.

A good test, that is documented and replicable by others doesn't respect your prejudices. That is unless you're claiming a paranormal ability to influence people's perceptions.

Kind of ironic that the same people that say it is impossible for people to turn off external stimuli are the same ones that attempt to explain it, as if it doesn't affect them in that process. Maybe you have some insight into how that can happen.

Marketing is just like that. Sales and perceptions are influenced by all kinds of things.

On an aside, I've often wondered ....

I've often wondered too why those that claim one should "trust their ears" are typically the ones that run the furthest and fastest from any type of blind testing. :confused:

Nothing personal, it's merely an observation.

Schticker,

Your attitude toward science in a forum that really is all about the fruits of the labor of many scientists that have toiled in the past is just mind boggling to me.

I absolutely respect scientists that look for holes in the theories of other scientists, not ones that are afraid to think that maybe their existing theories are cast in stone and irrefutable.

Your complaints about science and scientists not having all the answers as you fire up your (fill in the blank with your own system) just looks really well-dumb.

Don't confuse my frustration with closed-minded types with science and the profession in general. I find quite a bit more closed-mindedness in that field than any other though, and on more issues than this one.

Schticker - Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears to me that you are supporting "perceived value".

The definition of value by it's very nature makes it subjective, and therefore subject to individual perception. So yes, absolutely.

This is how many retailers make their millions.

It's also how you make your purchasing decisions on anything and everything, every day of the week. You choose the thing that represents the best value to you. That may be different for me; maybe not.

There are still far too many consumers out there that believe in "you get what you pay for". Although somewhat still true, the danger is in the consumers that believe in paying more = getting more.

I do agree that isn't always the case, nor am I saying that cost = performance. The fact that it tends to work that way makes it easy to think that way, and in fact is the root of the phrase.

I've often wondered too why those that claim one should "trust their ears" are typically the ones that run the furthest and fastest from any type of blind testing. :confused:

Nothing personal, it's merely an observation.

Mainly because the people that do so are the ones that have heard enough differences (and had others do likewise) that they find it a waste of time and redundant.

Hey.Everyone has their opinions, but I need some help from you people who know alot about speaker cable

Anyone know any good speaker cables in the $600-1,000 range?

I've heard some good stuff about the monster cable m2.2s, but I was thinking maybe silver cables would be my best option. Anyone have an opinion?

Please don't reply if your going to say "don't waste your time" thanks, I know I am!

My signature says it all - Granite Audio silver interconnects. Best not to get into this too much on the forum, as you're finding out with the naysayers who luv zip cord!!! If you'd like more info private message me. I have dealer friends who can give good discounts from list prices.

Andy, here is some 8ga for a good price: http://www.therfc.com/zipcord.htm

My signature says it all

Indeed, it says:
That you have no knowledge of basic electronics principles.
You're a sucker, and you've been duped in to spending a lot of money on copper wire.
You're arrogant, condescending, and never have anything substantial to add to any thread.

Indeed, it says:
That you have no knowledge of basic electronics principles.
You're a sucker, and you've been duped in to spending a lot of money on copper wire.
You're arrogant, condescending, and never have anything substantial to add to any thread.


Indeed. +10001


Good ol P.T. was right back then and still is today.

Very messy thread gents.

Indeed, it says:
That you have no knowledge of basic electronics principles.
You're a sucker, and you've been duped in to spending a lot of money on copper wire.
You're arrogant, condescending, and never have anything substantial to add to any thread.

Isn't Steve someone who can bounce your rude butt? I hope he makes use of that skill.

Arent you the troll who makes enimies in every thread you post in?
The one with absolutely no background in engineering, nor even the slightest clue on science and technology?
The one who makes rude, condecending remarks to almost everyone in these forums, because you lead such a miserable life as a monster cable salesman?

BTW, your boyfriend Steve couldn't hack the moderating position.

Too bad none of the other mods have kicked your skanky ass out of here.

Arent you the troll who makes enimies in every thread you post in?

Just closed minded types--you know--guys like you. Everyone else appreciates the fact I'll type what they won't/can't/are afraid to.

And depending on who we're discussing, making an enemy is a badge of honor. Means I'm hitting the right targets.

The one with absolutely no background in engineering, nor even the slightest clue on science and technology?

Engineering=Don't have to build the car to know how to drive it
Science=Enough to separate the wheat from the chaff
Technology=You wish you could.

The one who makes rude, condecending remarks to almost everyone in these forums

Typically only in retaliation to guys like you, which is a little different than the rude and condescending remarks you make to folks unsolicited.

because you lead such a miserable life as a monster cable salesman?

You really don't want to get into a battle over stereotypes, do you? BTW - Selling things requires the ability to relate and speak to adults with respect--something you clearly cannot do. I think I know why, and I would suspect everyone else here does too.

BTW, your boyfriend Steve couldn't hack the moderating position.

Tolerate, or hack?

Too bad none of the other mods have kicked your skanky ass out of here.
You may not be able to craft a white paper on it, but in the real world, other things like common sense and marketing/sales realities have value and should be made known.

You're arrogant, condescending, and never have anything substantial to add to any thread.

I think it speaks volumes that YOU say this about ANYONE that you have a kneejerk reaction with. This is not an overstatement. You really have psychological problems (transference one of them) and need to quit while you're ahead. Mods watch these threads too.

I'd say this in PM, but frankly one never knows when they're going to get jumped by you if you trip a certain trigger, so everyone should be aware of this. You're getting called out.

Arent you the troll who makes enimies in every thread you post in?
The one with absolutely no background in engineering, nor even the slightest clue on science and technology?
The one who makes rude, condecending remarks to almost everyone in these forums, because you lead such a miserable life as a monster cable salesman?

BTW, your boyfriend Steve couldn't hack the moderating position.

Too bad none of the other mods have kicked your skanky ass out of here.

Would you be nice. Its much more likely that he's my son from a girl whose name I don't remember than what you suggest?

And you're right, after four years of bringing in fantastic Special Guests from the AV industry and starting the AVS CES party and giving away more than $10,000 in door prizes for several years, folks like you got me tired of the shtick and I got out.
You did me a favor.

I have read the JAES for many years (one of the foremost peer-reviewed scientific journals WRT audio and interconnects). I have not seen a single, peer-reviewed DBT that shows that people can reliably tell the difference between different speaker cables, or power cables.

If it is possible to tell the difference, then clearly someone will publish such a test, have it peer reviewed, and repeated -- after all, there is no better support for a marketing claim then accepted research! And that kind of research isn't terribly expensive to set up, well within the quarterly marketing budget of some of these companies.

However, despite how powerful such a finding would be, for the last thirty years, not one of the interconnect companies have managed to produce such incontrovertible findings. Instead, they describe all kinds of interesting, amusing, or just plain weird theories in their marketing material, with no published research to back up the audible effect.

This leads us to the likely cause of hearing differences: Faith. Faith is when you believe something to be true, and make your decisions based on this belief, despite the absense of any solid proof (or, more often, despite the presence of incontrovertible counter-proof). Faith is deep-rooted in the human psyche, and the brain is a powerful thing: it will tell us that faith works. You have faith in your interconnects, so they work for you. I'm not going to tell you you don't. I am, however, going to ask you:

Where is the peer-reviewed research that shows an audible difference between regular-price and premium-price speaker cable interconnects? I would honestly love to read it!

For the OP, You could make this a home brew project and be well under your budget.
http://www.apexjr.com/wire.html#Teflon PTFE Silver Plated Copper Wire

That and a roll of techflex you could build a sweet pair of cables.

What amp/speakers are you connecting up?


RIght now I am using Belden 5t00 (10/2) from BJC, between my MC352 amp and Klipsch ChorusII speakers. I also had a set of their 14/4 Canare cables which were great as well (werent long enough for this placement)
I have a roll of 10/2 Soundking from MCM on the way and I am going to use it with a pair of WBT midline bananas .

The bananas were more than I usually like to spend on an experimental DIy project, however I can justify it because of their setup with the crimp sleeves I can use them on every set of cables I put together.

I like trying different things but I also like to keep it reasonable as well

$600 set of speaker cables that you have not heard in your system is a bit of a risk IMO

Would you be nice. Its much more likely that he's my son from a girl whose name I don't remember than what you suggest?

And you're right, after four years of bringing in fantastic Special Guests from the AV industry and starting the AVS CES party and giving away more than $10,000 in door prizes for several years, folks like you got me tired of the shtick and I got out.

I really thought you'd be part of the paternity tests for Anna Nicole's kid Steve.
You did bring in some good guests, yes. You also brought some funny nutjobs. I really liked those.

...tired of the shtick and I got out...

So was it the shtick you got tired of or the schticker :p

(sorry couldn't resist)

Targus has been given a week off.

Carry on, and keep the insults to yourselves.

Schticker, take a break from this thread. Keep up the trolling and you'll be joining Targus.

Targus has been given a week off.

Carry on, and keep the insults to yourselves.

Schticker, take a break from this thread. Keep up the trolling and you'll be joining Targus.

Sounds like a plan.

I have read the JAES for many years.....I have not seen a single, peer-reviewed DBT that shows that people can reliably tell......

I've read that also. I am not impressed. Nor with the AES.
If it is possible to tell the difference, then clearly someone will publish such a test, have it peer reviewed, and repeated -- after all, there is no better support for a marketing claim then accepted research! And that kind of research isn't terribly expensive to set up, well within the quarterly marketing budget of some of these companies.
You make the assumption that clear scientific proof will be good for their market share. I do not share that assumption.


However, despite how powerful such a finding would be, for the last thirty years, not one of the interconnect companies have managed to produce such incontrovertible findings. Instead, they describe all kinds of interesting, amusing, or just plain weird theories in their marketing material, with no published research to back up the audible effect.

Weird is not the half of it. What claptrap, some of the explanations. Again, what advantage would be gained by scientific research that explained it all. They have no reason to try such, and would rather sell on marketing blurbs.

If I provided clearcut scientific evidence and understanding to explain why speaker cables sound different, the market is killed...belden would only have to produce several million feet of this wondercable, poof, high end cable manu's gone..

This leads us to the likely cause of hearing differences: Faith......

Either that, or some not understood aspect of human hearing.

Where is the peer-reviewed research that shows an audible difference between regular-price and premium-price speaker cable interconnects? I would honestly love to read it!

Me too. Nothing stands out to say such..

Cheers, John

Ambiguous and stretched scientific proofs coupled with testimonials works OK too. Time for that life extending red African tea :)

Time for that life extending red African tea :)I have heard numerous reliable people tell me that stuff really works and that they know it has extended their life from what it was going to be (or something like that).

Tastes like **** though. Just like Red Zinger.

I have heard numerous reliable people tell me that stuff really works and that they know it has extended their life from what it was going to be (or something like that).

I can attest to that. I was supposed to die years ago, (not that I was sick or anything it just came to me in a dream and I took it on faith) a few cups and bang...here I am still alive and well. I drink the tea = I am still alive = the tea keeps me alive = don't tell me anything different as I know its true = screw the scientific types :D

I can attest to that. I was supposed to die years ago, (not that I was sick or anything it just came to me in a dream and I took it on faith) a few cups and bang...here I am still alive and well. I drink the tea = I am still alive = the tea keeps me alive = don't tell me anything different as I know its true = screw the scientific types :DRight on brother!

Targus has been given a week off...

Whoa!! The mods have grown fangs!


Must ... use ... all ... my ... well ... learned ... politesse ...


:p

Either that, or some not understood aspect of human hearing.
Occam's Razor, John.

There already exists a reasonable explanation that accords with well-established scientific theory. Why complicate things?

If your hypothesis is that there are phenomena that can't be explained by all that well-established theory, first establish that there are such phenomena. Otherwise all subsequent attempts to modify or bound that theory will have no basis for experimental confirmation. It will not be science.

Hello?

Tastes like **** though. Just like Red Zinger.
Red Zinger is awesome. Makes your highs glisteningly transparent and your lows,.......... well, lower.

I don't think Red Zinger is the same as Rooibos, though.

Nope, just a different kind of ****.