I spoke to Toshiba support

In spite of claims made by the salesman at B&H photo, Toshiba says there are no plans to release new DVD recorders with internal hard drives for 2007. The XS 35 and 55 are discontinued.
He wouldn't say why. Does anyone know what the problem is with DVD recorders having internal hard drives?

Seems like such a no brainer to me that having the internal hard disk is a huge plus.

Why are they being discontinued by Tosh and Panasonic?

I'd like to know too. Pioneer is going to do the same (no HDD model for 2007).

This is nucking futs because I mostly record to HDD with the ocassional burn-to-DVD to back it up (family videos and such).

One thing to keep in mind. Support people rarely have a clue as to what's going on. If it's not on their script, chances are they are just guessing, making it up as they go along, or outright lying.

One thing to keep in mind. Support people rarely have a clue as to what's going on.


Often true, but the Tosh support rep I spoke to sounded pretty much up to date and into the technology. He spoke more or less as an observer of what was going there and not so much as a tech. He sounded convinced that there were no HDD's coming based on what's going on at Tosh right now.

Of course companies change plans and sometimes things are unannounced to their own reps until the last minute. Even if the rep is being up front, he may not know the whole story.

I'm just going by what he told me; that a new HDD model doesn't seem likely.

looks like the "off brands" may see a spike in HDD based unit sales :)

I'd still like to know the reason behind the trend away from HDD/DVD models. Has any company explained their reason? (OTOH, do companies ever? but I'm asking anyway)

Did they not sell well? Are they prone to problems?

I spoke with a Panasonic engineer last week & he said Panny is not having any HDD models for 2007 due to the very small demand. While there are forum members interested, that is not enuf of market to make it worth while. He said some other manufacturers probably feel the same way. So it look like only some of the "off brands" will offer these.

I think the idea of the "off brands" ruining the market for the leaders such as Pioneer/Panasonic/Toshiba/Sony in another thread might be right on.

They will lower the price with such shoddy crap that the major manufacturers feel they wouldn't be able to sell their equipment at a competetive price.

That is probably the biggest reason why you may only see HDD based models with digital tuners from offbrand companies or Chinese copycats.

I think the idea of the "off brands" ruining the market for the leaders such as Pioneer/Panasonic/Toshiba/Sony in another thread might be right on.

They will lower the price with such shoddy crap that the major manufacturers feel they wouldn't be able to sell their equipment at a competetive price.

That is probably the biggest reason why you may only see HDD based models with digital tuners from offbrand companies or Chinese copycats.

That's probably very close to being true. The only other thing that might happen is when Pioneer, Toshiba, Panasonic, & Sony see how well companies like Magnavox, Polaroid, Philips, and Sylvania do with HDD models (only Philips and Polaroid have been confirmed) maybe they will soon want to jump on the bandwagon with an attitude like: "Heck, if people are buying a Polaroid brand...I know they'll buy ours which is better". Whether or not that happens will remain to be seen.

One thing I really would love to have one of the "off brands" do with a HDD/DVD Recorder (with a Digital Tuner) is more than just XP, SP, LP, SLP, etc... for their recording speeds. Either include Flexible Recording (or something like it) like Panasonic uses, or many different speeds like Pioneer has with the 640 (32 Manual Recording Speeds), or like Toshiba uses where they have a Bitrate Selection from 2.0 to 9.2 in .2 increments.

I'm tired of this 5 or 6 speed settings nonsense, the more customizable I can make it...the better.

Bummer
A Toshiba Fan
:(

The only other thing that might happen is when Pioneer, Toshiba, Panasonic, & Sony see how well companies like Magnavox, Polaroid, Philips, and Sylvania do with HDD models (only Philips and Polaroid have been confirmed) maybe they will soon want to jump on the bandwagon with an attitude like: "Heck, if people are buying a Polaroid brand...I know they'll buy ours which is better". Whether or not that happens will remain to be seen.
If the big boys don't have a market for their "better" products now, what could possibly make anyone here believe that the introduction of inferior products by the "off brands" will create a demand so large that it convinces Panasonic, Pioneer, et al to re-enter the market? This is about money, fellas, and like any business, these guys want as much of it as they can get. If they perceive DVDRs with HDDs as unprofitable then they will certainly kick them to the curb and their Board of Directors and shareholders will rightfully applaud.

Also, what makes anyone think that the "off brands" are in the DVDR/HHD business for the long haul - i.e., beyond this year? If they also come to believe that it's an unprofitable niche market, they'll get out too. You may think of them as "off brand", but don't ever delude yourself that they're not driven by profit just like the big boys.

Is this perceived lack of demand a uniquely USA-centric issue (as implied by the thread title)? I believe that there are newer models for Japan and some European countries this year.

If so, I wonder if this is related to the almost automatic customer base of DVR STBs offered on a rental basis by the USA cable companies. Additionally, would such a potentially poor demand in the local market affect TiVo?

I showed my Toshiba to a relative who rents a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD from the cableco, and he was astounded at the ease of recording my camcorder movies, editing chapters and creating playlists, then burning to DVDs. His first comment was, "My DVR can't do *anything* as good as this!" He had no idea such units existed, and he's usually up on the latest consumer media products as reported by the more popular publications.

- ooofest

This is interesting (is there a general "No HDD recorders in 2007" thread? This may be more relevant there)-- Toshiba Japan is apparently unleashing a ton of lawsuits against unlicensed DVD player AND recorder makers for patent infringement, mostly in China.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/10/toshiba-sues-everyone-over-dvd-related-patent-infringement/

I wonder if this will affect the new lower-end HDD market at all?

One of the comments here ( http://www.japantoday.com/jp/news/403259 ) has a list that supposedly is who was sued (I am thinking Daewoo and jWin had recorders, not sure though):
GVG Digital Technology Holdings Ltd., Star Light Electronics Co. Ltd., Starlight International Holdings Ltd., Starlight Marketing (HK) Ltd., Tonic Digital Products Ltd., Tonic Electronics Ltd., Tonic Industries Holdings Ltd., Tonic Technology (HK) Ltd. and Tonic Trading Development Ltd.,Dongguan GVG Digital Technology Ltd., Dongguan Tonic Electronics Co., Ltd., Dongguan Xin Lian Digital Technology Co. Ltd., Tonic DVB Marketing Ltd. and Tonic Technology (Shenzhen) Ltd., Daewoo Electronics America, Inc., jWIN Electronics Corp. and Memcorp Inc.

I agree these HDD DVD Recorders is just not for the mainstream. Most people don't even know how to program a VCR, so most people are not going to record on an HD and edit. They just just won't bother. They will use the DVR that they get from cable or satellite, but to go through buying a DVD Recorder with an HD is not going to work for most people.

simple reason:

they cant make money, so its not worth it

the USA market is sooo price sensitive, that even its huge size cant compensate for the ridiculous prices. they are selling decent in other markets though, especially jpn.

aside from avsforum denizens, nobody was buying those 400, 500, 600 dollar machines, and many of the J6P couldnt figure them out. they disappeared real fast from the retail outlets not because they were selling out but because they just sat there on the shelf, priced at 599.99.

sad

The "cheapo" off-brand HDD models always seem to sell out pretty quick from my local Walmart, though.

So I wouldn't be surprised if you still see some of those lower-cost ($200.00 and less) models still being released.