After many months of planning I am setting up the equipment for my HT Room. I will update this thread with my progress.

On the video-side I am using the following:

- One 9500LC Ultra w/ MPv2 mods and new OEM tubes (to be fitted in)
- One 8500 Ultra that I am converting to a 9500LC Ultra (more on this later)
- One 9000LC that I am using as a donor's machine (basically for the mounting plates for the 8" -> 9" conversion)
- One 9500LC as a backup machine.
- Two sets of LCP OEM tubes fitted with red and green C-elements
- Blendzilla
- One HTPC for video-games and movies
- PS3, XB360, etc.

Some pics:

New OEM tubes ready for some blended action:
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/1314/img1543no3.jpg

Poor 9000LC waiting to be dismantled:
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/2954/img1544sh1.jpg

9500LC Ultra (black) and 9500LC (pink!!!):
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/8316/img1545qu8.jpg

Equipment rack:
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2504/img1546fv4.jpg

RGBHV cables (I will also run DVI-D and compare):
http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/1563/img1547dv1.jpg

The floor in the equipment room is suspended so I can easily run cabling beneath it:
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/8470/img1549ns0.jpg

Rear view of rack, I need to clean-up the mess:
http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/5476/img1550bc7.jpg

8500 Ultra waiting to be transformed into a migthy 9500LC Ultra:
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/8546/img1565cu8.jpg

So far I have put the B and G tubes that were on the 9000LC (which worked before) into the 8500 Ultra; but I do not see any image. I have swapped the HPVS, splitter, VIM and resetted the CLB but I still don't any picture (not even the "No Sync" one). Any ideas?

Wow this is an impressive project! I have to hand it to you CRT guys, you are certainly willing to do some work!

I'm to lazy to even put my anamorphic lens in front of my digital most of the time :(

............So far I have put the B and G tubes that were on the 9000LC (which worked before) into the 8500 Ultra; but I do not see any image. I have swapped the HPVS, splitter, VIM and resetted the CLB but I still don't any picture (not even the "No Sync" one). Any ideas?

Andres

The tubes you moved, are those P19's? Are any diagnostic leds going red?

Hi Tim,

These are the tubes that came from the 9000LC, and worked well there (yesterday). The first time I fired it up (just with the G tube) both V Fail and H Fail were red, but I just unplugged and plugged back (firmly) the two boards that go between the tubes (HDM and VDM I think) and the leds went away. I have also reset the CLB.

The LVPS has a lot of leds (in a row) but none of them are on.

Andres

Are all three tubes in and connected or just green? It will not run without all connected, the yokes at least.

AWESOME ANDRES!!!!

LOL, your equipment rack is just like mine!

Cliffy

Andres

Are all three tubes in and connected or just green? It will not run without all connected, the yokes at least.

I didn't know that ;) I just connected G first... it didn't light up; then connected B, didn't light up either... so tomorrow I'll connect R too :-)

I wanted to test the 8500 Ultra with the tubes from the 9000LC first to make sure the it would not kill the tubes. Once I verify the machine works, I will put the new OEM tubes in it.

I will try to make a few pics of the actual HT room, but it is so dark that the camera can't pick up anything.

It begins! .... BlendZilla global domination :D ;)

Hope you get the Ultra's up and running soon before I get there

Yummy Fresh Minty Tubes...... :p

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/1314/img1543no3.jpg

Guys!

Our BlendZilla User Group is small but intense, if we add just one HT enthusiast in 10,000 then it will be fantastic!!!!!!!!

Tim - thanks for your suggestion re: 3 tubes at once... it did the trick. The 8500 Ultra is now a 9500LC Ultra in disguise. :-)

Next...

1. Vent some glycol off the new tubes
2. Install MPv2 VIMs in the Ultras
3. Install the new tubes in the Ultras

One question for the Marquee experts out there. I have noticed that when I turn the PJ off the red tube displays a small dot in the center that gently faints off. Is that normal? I do not recall seing that on my other PJs and the red and green don't do it. Is this the infamous "spot kill"? :mad:

Tim - thanks for your suggestion re: 3 tubes at once... it did the trick. The 8500 Ultra is now a 9500LC Ultra in disguise. :-)

Next...

1. Vent some glycol off the new tubes
2. Install MPv2 VIMs in the Ultras
3. Install the new tubes in the Ultras

One question for the Marquee experts out there. I have noticed that when I turn the PJ off the red tube displays a small dot in the center that gently faints off. Is that normal? I do not recall seing that on my other PJs and the red and green don't do it. Is this the infamous "spot kill"? :mad:

Andres

It may be spot kill; try that neck board on a worn tube; if that is clean then it is the tube itself, we have seen the problem both ways.

Thanks Tim. I don't have any "worn" tubes but I do have a good reserve of neck boards, so I'll put a different neck to see if it does the trick...

*sigh* I SOOOO want to try it :). I almost have enough parts other than the blendzilla unit :)

Andres, what size screen are you shooting for?

I'm going to shoot for a massive 5 meter wide (16'), 2.40:1 AR. I'll be using the SMX screen, so I think the extra gain (1.16) of the SMX will help me out vs. the unity gain screens generally used when blending.

The Blendzilla is a solid device, from my testing it gets the job done. Initially in my research I pondered the option of doing the blending with a PC-based approach, but I decided to play safe and get the best usability possible.

I will be using two sets of HD10GT17 lenses... or two sets of HD10F ones, if I can procure another one before Gino's visit...

Andres

It may be spot kill; try that neck board on a worn tube; if that is clean then it is the tube itself, we have seen the problem both ways.

I replaced the neck and now the spot is just barely visible upon switch off... so it might be the tube. Not too big of a problem since this is not one of the tubes that I will be using.

I'm going to shoot for a massive 5 meter wide (16'), 2.40:1 AR. I'll be using the SMX screen, so I think the extra gain (1.16) of the SMX will help me out vs. the unity gain screens generally used when blending.

The Blendzilla is a solid device, from my testing it gets the job done. Initially in my research I pondered the option of doing the blending with a PC-based approach, but I decided to play safe and get the best usability possible.

I will be using two sets of HD10GT17 lenses... or two sets of HD10F ones, if I can procure another one before Gino's visit...


Hehehe......the Personal Imax!!!!!!!!!

Rear view of rack, I need to clean-up the mess:
http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/5476/img1550bc7.jpg well don't stop at the rack, make sure you get the rest of the room too :D That's a lot of fun equipment you have there, I know that row of 9" tubes and Ultra chassis's have everyone here envoius. :) I hope you plan on painting both machines 1 color and it's not Pink?

I'm going to shoot for a massive 5 meter wide (16'), 2.40:1 AR. I'll be using the SMX screen, so I think the extra gain (1.16) of the SMX will help me out vs. the unity gain screens generally used when blending.

The Blendzilla is a solid device, from my testing it gets the job done. Initially in my research I pondered the option of doing the blending with a PC-based approach, but I decided to play safe and get the best usability possible.

I will be using two sets of HD10GT17 lenses... or two sets of HD10F ones, if I can procure another one before Gino's visit...

You have good taste in screens. :)

I just put mine up last night. Love it.

Cliff

:) I hope you plan on painting both machines 1 color and it's not Pink?

Dragan

You got a problem with Pink? :D :D :D

I'm going to shoot for a massive 5 meter wide (16'), 2.40:1 AR. I'll be using the SMX screen, so I think the extra gain (1.16) of the SMX will help me out vs. the unity gain screens generally used when blending.


If you can distiguish between 1 gain and 1.16 gain you are impressive indeed. This should be indistinguishable.

Like I said earlier I would have to see actual lab results to believe any acoustically transparent screen without an optical coating is above 1 gain.

If you can distiguish between 1 gain and 1.16 gain you are impressive indeed. This should be indistinguishable.

Like I said earlier I would have to see actual lab results to believe any acoustically transparent screen without an optical coating is above 1 gain.


YAWN.... :rolleyes:

YAWN.... :rolleyes:

Sorry, I didn't mean to inadvertently wake you up to reality :)

*sigh* I SOOOO want to try it :). I almost have enough parts other than the blendzilla unit :)

Andres, what size screen are you shooting for?

Paul,

Would you go 8" or 9" blendzilla? I don't recall anyone here with 8" yet. You gotta blaze the trail, man!

;)

- Steve O.

Sorry, I didn't mean to inadvertently wake you up to reality :)

It's ALLLLL GOOD big dog. :D

Cliffy

Paul,

Would you go 8" or 9" blendzilla? I don't recall anyone here with 8" yet. You gotta blaze the trail, man!

;)

- Steve O.

I'ts not the machines that is dissuading me, it's the $15k price tag on the blendzilla unit :).

Guys!

Let me share some recent history with you.......I spent many years in Michigan, we were Electrohome dealers selling to the car companies, GM, Ford etc. and their stylists wanted to see cars full size on screens like bloody twenty feet long. This predates DLP so it was either Talaria or Hughes or....two or three Marquees employing edge blending. The SGI computers rendered the image segments and a contrast modulator box (then $20K itself) faded the segments together. Our group in Michigan had five such sites going, and four of them were rigged for active stereoscopic with shutter goggles, which ruled out the lamp projectors. So with two or three Marquees we could do very wide screens at useable footlamberts.........fast forward to 2000 and I am now in Arizona and people are asking me how to do ten foot and wider screens at high Fl. and I am thinking Dang, what if a processor was able to split an HDTV image for edge blending? I run across an announcement from a California firm, Folsom Research, and they are announcing a box called DisplayPro HD and it is designed for exactly what I want to do. I have a demo brought here but they tell me DisplayPro HD will have the circuitry of two other devices, and those two devices are sent over and demo'd and the demo looked good and if i wish to order thirty systems they would be happy to build them......(big frown)....their gear was exceptionally complex and very hard to set up.

I order one DisplayPro HD and never see it, but we called that rig BlendZilla for an element of humor and the name stuck for a second demo of the same two boxes about eighteen months later. The DVX I discovered in October 2005, and saw it run here a month later. My DVX arrived Christmas Eve of '05 and I am loving it on a nine foot wide screen with two M9500LCs ever since........and that sport fans is the saga of BlendZilla!!!!

Guys!

I ran across an old bookmark-----Vince had bought a Vision One here in Phoenix and we put some MP magic to it before shipping it away......

Recently i purchased a Vidikron Vision One-which of course is Marquee 9500LC in a Pininfarina designed case.

Though not really a cost effective excercise,I decided I wanted to see how good the Mike Parker mods-The VIM and neckboard mods et al-were.
So I sent the unit to To Tim Martin in Arizona(Had the Tim Martin fan mod as well).

Now I have always been a fan of the Marquee series and long advocated their quality-and was selling them- when others were quite dismissive of them.(No names mentioned :) )

So I am very familiar with the pic. a Marquee can put out,8500LC`s,9500LC`s,Ultras etc..

Now the claim is that the Mike Parker mods can increase blacks and shadow detail by 15%-20%..which to me is an astronomical difference and one I was quite dubious about.

Well...set up the beastie yesterday.
I looked at "Fellowship,Gladiator,Last Samurai and Fifth Element"-all well known from an evaluation point of view.

The first thing I noticed was that the overall dynamic range seemed far better..blacks were indeed more black..and whites seemed crisper..but the big..big improvement for me was in the delineation of the greyscale,shadow details that I recall looking a tad muted on a "bog standard" 9500LC -again seemed to stand out more..It just ALL had so much more punch-but still that customary silky smooth moiseless appearance Marquees are famed for.
When Mila takes her dive off the building in FE. its the best ive seen that scene look-It was almost holographic...it looked really clean with everything rendered perfectly.
Gladiator looked to me..very very..close to how I had seen it look on a Cine 9 Recently-not the ultimate light output of course-but if anything a tad less noise in the image..

But getting back to the blacks..watched the Saruman battle with Gandalf in the tower and to date..this was the best I have seen it look-It was almost stomach churning and pulled you right into the scene- :thumbsup:

When i looked at Last Samurai I saw graduations within the cloud scenes(the final battle) I had never seen before on ANY Marquee .

Now this Vision One did not have a red "C" element-so reds were not quite so red as with one,having said this having a red "c" element cuts down the light output of the red-and of course you have to bring the green and blue in line(or should)..the upshot of having a red "c" element is that you can lose upto 20% in overall light output.

..But do you know what? I think I prefer NOT having a red "c" element now with these Mike Parker mods..the standard reds looked more punchy to me and took that miniscule "orange" look away..In fact the reds looked great..possibly the better blacks darkened things a tad..just enough..so for me this was a great "compromise"..and no lost light output.

Certainly ones eyes were being tricked into thinking there was more light output BECAUSE i guess of the better dynamic range.

In fact..think a G90 picture without the "grain" but much better blacks..In short,it was absolutely awesome!!! whisper quiet because of the fan mods,Ultra LVPS.,.,.and sure the whizzy case..now I quite like the look of Marquees anyway but have always hated that horrible piece of two quid foam at the front..it spoils the whole thing-but many others have remarked on the industrial look of the Marquee and not liked it.

In short -for me-this was what a Marquee could be/should be..Magnificent picture & Magnificent look!!

Now what of the 15%-20% improvement claim? IS IT TRUE?

..I have to say.as mad as it sounds..quite possibly..what i can definately say being ultra picky,is that its at LEAST a 10% improvement in blacks and shadow presentation..but in the overall picture..the effect these facets are having on the colours,the dynamic etc..The claim I think is justified.

Nevertheless,attempts to qualify a % improvement are almost always doomed to failure-what I can say is that its one BIG improvement.

A lot has been said about the yanks in other threads..but these Mike Parker mods are -as they say-the real deal!

In fact what i am going to find really hard now is going back to when I watch a "normal" Marquee pic..it has spoilt me without a doubt :god:
.................

Heh, making me question the C element now....

Tim,

That was a great post - I was actually looking for it the other day.

I'm in madpoet's boat now when it comes to C-elements... especially in my situation in which I am going to need all light output.

What do you recommend? I have a good reserve of tubes so I can either go with or without C-elements without much of a hassle; and being the reds those look absolutely pristine (even not being new as the ones w/ C-elements).

Why don't we experiment Andres?? Try both

Sounds good Gino - I have the feeling that the projectors are going to be floor mounted for a while... :)

p.s. I need to check that at least 2 of my 3 spare reds have 6-pole magnets (I know one of them does).

Tim,

That was a great post - I was actually looking for it the other day.

I'm in madpoet's boat now when it comes to C-elements... especially in my situation in which I am going to need all light output.

What do you recommend? I have a good reserve of tubes so I can either go with or without C-elements without much of a hassle; and being the reds those look absolutely pristine (even not being new as the ones w/ C-elements).


Andres

I have never found raw red to be objectionable at all, not once. It almost takes test equipment to tell a difference. Raw green is rather pastel so leave those filtered.

Red is NOT the limiting filtered color in the Marquee, it is green.
So I see no need to omit the filtering from the red gun of green is still filtered.

On the other hand not filtering green AND red will result in a 30 to 40% increase in light output - IF blue is defocussed well enough and accepting a slight red push around 90 and 100 IRE.

Oliver

Yes, I measured my 8500 and the raw red was quite close to the SMPTE C standard. Green was WAY off.

Red is NOT the limiting filtered color in the Marquee, it is green.
So I see no need to omit the filtering from the red gun of green is still filtered.

On the other hand not filtering green AND red will result in a 30 to 40% increase in light output - IF blue is defocussed well enough and accepting a slight red push around 90 and 100 IRE.

Oliver

Are you saying that you could get 40% more light output if you didn't filter any colors? Wouldn't that result is completely wrong colors?

Yes. And an unfiltered 8500 (and I assume 9500) has completely wrong colors.

Just my bias unfiltered reds on a Marquee are exceedingly orange colored . With all the effort to which you are going to obtain a reference set up I'd certainly recommend filtering.

Have you thought about a different screen material with a little gain. Even a perf ultramatte 1.5 would get you closer to 9fL rather than 7fL or so.

Best of luck with your project ! :)

Art

Have you thought about a different screen material with a little gain. Even a perf ultramatte 1.5 would get you closer to 9fL rather than 7fL or so.

Best of luck with your project ! :)

Art

Hello

I asked five experienced people, including the engineers at Stewart, any fabric much above 1.0 will amplify the blend zone and make it harder to conceal.

With the much improved phosphor use of blending, adding gain is not indicated.

I agree... the slightest gain would cause slight color shift and that effect will be magnified in a blend.

The red-push color shift for the left side will be blending into the blue-push color shift from the right side.

Plus, the center seat is effectively the extreme right-side of the left projector. And the center seat is also the extreme left-side of the right projector. And with a gain >1.0, each seat would get different levels from each half's gain curve.

With a single projector (or a stack), the color shift would be unnoticeable. But with a blend, the effect would be magnified in the blend zone and especially in the area just beyond the blend zone.

The red-push color shift for the left side will be blending into the blue-push color shift from the right side.

Plus, the center seat is effectively the extreme right-side of the left projector. And the center seat is also the extreme left-side of the right projector. And with a gain >1.0, each seat would get different levels from each half's gain curve.


Clarence - do you think swapping R & B in one of the projectors would help hide/eliminate this? for instance BGRRGB?

No, I originally thought about that, but then your color shift would also be BGRRGB, so your blend zone would be doubling up on the red+red or blue+blue push.

But I want to emphasize how subtle this color-shifting is... each half of the screen is only about 6' wide. I doubt too many of us could notice color-shift on a 6' wide screen with 1.16 gain screen. You can see it if you look for it on a very wide solid-white test screen.

It's fun to map out the geometry... gain curves, distance between (6) tubes, screen width, seating position, etc.

The wider the screen and the higher the gain, the easier it is to see.

So on a 10' wide screen, with a 2-8-3.0 gain screen, you'd easily see CRT color-shift.
On a 1.2 gain 6' wide screen... probably not.
But on a 1.5-1.8 gain screen, with the effect doubled by a blend... yep, that's probably just enough to start screwing with your otherwise perfect blendzone.

Are you saying that you could get 40% more light output if you didn't filter any colors?

That is what I am saying.

The green filter on the Marquee will cost you about 30% of the original light.
So in a fictive scenario you go from 10 to 7 ft-lambert.
So changing back the green c-element to clear would result in a roughly 40% increase in light output.

Wouldn't that result is completely wrong colors?

Yes and in my opinion this is not recommended - correct colors are more important than a bigger screen. So I recommend to reduce screen size until you get around 10 to 11 ft-lambert with your new tubes - they will lose some of that light as they age so you better be on the brighter side of things when you start out with your setup.

You guys certainly know a lot more than me regarding CRT blending. :) My concern is how much light Andres will get with that size screen. In the past I think he has been very happy with lower fL so perhaps I'm just projecting my desires. :o

Art

The HT world is advancing very fast... with that in mind I have accommodated the biggest screen my room can comfortably have.

Will my blend light it up to my satisfaction? I don't know, and I can drive the tubes a bit harder if needed. I don't mind changing the tubes after 2 or 3 years, honestly. A new set of tubes would run for approx $5000-$6000; upgrading a digital at the current rate is more expensive than that.

Could I scale it back (i.e. mask the screen) and find an appropriate size to get enough ftL? Yes, and I can always go bigger if I find a better alternative.

Will there be a projector that would give me massive light, high ANSI CR and CRT attributes (on/off CR, lack of pixelation, etc.) in the next 5 years? Very likely. Think of the newest 3-chip Sim DLP and what they can be in 3-5 years.

If you regard pure black as a requirement, blending CRT PJs gives you the best possible attributes with regards to PQ in a big 2.40:1 AR screen.

So basically... I'll go as big as I can, and I'll upgrade in a few years if I "need" it.

The HT world is advancing very fast... with that in mind I have accommodated the biggest screen my room can comfortably have.

Will my blend light it up to my satisfaction? I don't know, and I can drive the tubes a bit harder if needed. I don't mind changing the tubes after 2 or 3 years, honestly. A new set of tubes would run for approx $5000-$6000; upgrading a digital at the current rate is more expensive than that.

Could I scale it back (i.e. mask the screen) and find an appropriate size to get enough ftL? Yes, and I can always go bigger if I find a better alternative.

Will there be a projector that would give me massive light, high ANSI CR and CRT attributes (on/off CR, lack of pixelation, etc.) in the next 5 years? Very likely. Think of the newest 3-chip Sim DLP and what they can be in 3-5 years.

If you regard pure black as a requirement, blending CRT PJs gives you the best possible attributes with regards to PQ in a big 2.40:1 AR screen.

So basically... I'll go as big as I can, and I'll upgrade in a few years if I "need" it.

Andres,

If you crank the tubes A BIT, and your Marquee's can hold good spot focus, you should have no problems clipping say 9 foot lamberts on that massive screen.

Joe Kane says 8 foot lamberts is the spot to start for home theater so me thinks you'll be good. :D ;)

Lucky bastard.......... :p

Cliffy

The HT world is advancing very fast... with that in mind I have accommodated the biggest screen my room can comfortably have.

Will my blend light it up to my satisfaction? I don't know, and I can drive the tubes a bit harder if needed. I don't mind changing the tubes after 2 or 3 years, honestly. A new set of tubes would run for approx $5000-$6000; upgrading a digital at the current rate is more expensive than that.

Could I scale it back (i.e. mask the screen) and find an appropriate size to get enough ftL? Yes, and I can always go bigger if I find a better alternative.

Will there be a projector that would give me massive light, high ANSI CR and CRT attributes (on/off CR, lack of pixelation, etc.) in the next 5 years? Very likely. Think of the newest 3-chip Sim DLP and what they can be in 3-5 years.

If you regard pure black as a requirement, blending CRT PJs gives you the best possible attributes with regards to PQ in a big 2.40:1 AR screen.

So basically... I'll go as big as I can, and I'll upgrade in a few years if I "need" it.

I don't disagree with any of those points.

Art

That is what I am saying.

The green filter on the Marquee will cost you about 30% of the original light.

Do you have any tests to back that up? When I tried to test this, the most I could come up with is less than a 10% loss.

Dave

With what lenses, Dave?

I plan to add some HD145's to my 8500 soon. I'll try to remember to do a with/without ftL measurement when I do.

The green filter on the Marquee will cost you about 30% of the original light.

So changing back the green c-element to clear would result in a roughly 40% increase in light output.Do you have any tests to back that up? When I tried to test this, the most I could come up with is less than a 10% loss.30%-40% sounded a bit much to me too.

I'm pretty sure Ken and Terry have measured before and after.

There are 4 c-elements to consider...
- clear
- light-green (Sony)
- dark-green (Marquee)
- red

I replaced the light-green Sony-OEM in my G90 and went with the darker green c-element (Marquee OEM spec) for truer colors. IIRC, going from light-green to dark-green loses 10% light output.

If I had to guess, I would've estimated another 10% output going from light-green to clear (or a total estimate of 20% output loss going from clear to the darker Marquee c-element).

Do you have any tests to back that up? When I tried to test this, the most I could come up with is less than a 10% loss.

Dave

Yes, I tried it with a Marquee and a colored c-element - it got roughly 30% darker on the green with the dark green c-element (I think 28%).
I had these numbers on my old crashed harddrive, so no exact numbers any more.

I have also experimented with gel filters and another guy from Germany has experimented with colored glycol. The funny thing is that you always lose almost 30% light when you filter the green enough to get primaries that are close to a filtered Marquee or NEC.

As I mentioned before with higher light output blue needs to be defocused anyway to properly track 6500k and that is with colored green c-elements.
So one could argue that unless blue isn't defocused even more it does not really make sense to increase green light output.

In any case I do not recommend it but as Andres asked for it so I gave him the numbers I found out.

Oliver

Hi Guys,

Gino is here already. Here's a few pics as of yesterday before the SMX screen:

You can see the three Genelec AOW312 and the HTS6 subwoofer:
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/6773/img1615fx2.jpg

Detail of the front wall:
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/3309/img1617nk7.jpg

And a view of the seating area, the Marquees will remain table-mounted for the calibration:
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/304/img1620km4.jpg

Next steps (today?):
- Frame the screen (I tried velcro yesterday but it is not strong enough; I am going to screw the SMX to the aluminium frame).
- Set up one projector or two if time allows (Gino is optimistic! :) )

The place looks very messy as I have been working tirelessly to get the place prepared for Gino's visit.

Regards!

DAMN!!!! THAT IS ONE HELL OF A SCREEN WALL!!!!!!!! Awesome Andres!

Cliffy

We just finished seting one up! No blending yet, BUT IT LOOKS FREAKING AMAZING! My observations so far:

- The SMX screen material is *really* good.
- I am already loving it with a 3 meter wide and a single PJ (we did a rough setup, so the final result will be even punchier as the Marquee will light up only 2.7 meters with full tube usage). I will work my tubes as hard as it is reasonably safe. 63 seems to be the magic number.
- The Marquee with MP2 mods looks really, really good (Gino says we are not even 50% there yet!!! :eek: )
- Gino knows this stuff inside out! :)

One thing, when we put the full on test patterns, we see some sort of vertical banding on the left side on the screen on the three colors; like vertically modulated bars. I am using MP2 VIM and necks. Could it be the CCM? Doesn't really worry me because right now this is on the left side of the left PJ, but if it happens on the other will it will affect the blendzone.

One more thing: we run into an issue in which we could not get convergence to work horizonally. We called Tim, and INMEDIATELY pointed out where the problem was (wrong order of cabled in the HDM). It took us less than 1 minute to fix after Tim's response. THANKS TIM!

One more thing: we run into an issue in which we could not get convergence to work horizonally. We called Tim, and INMEDIATELY pointed out where the problem was (wrong order of cabled in the HDM). It took us less than 1 minute to fix after Tim's response. THANKS TIM!

Hehe

My pleasure. Get us some people shots of everybody huddled together in the room!!!!!

We just finished seting one up! No blending yet, BUT IT LOOKS FREAKING AMAZING! My observations so far:

- The SMX screen material is *really* good.
- I am already loving it with a 3 meter wide and a single PJ (we did a rough setup, so the final result will be even punchier as the Marquee will light up only 2.7 meters with full tube usage). I will work my tubes as hard as it is reasonably safe. 63 seems to be the magic number.
- The Marquee with MP2 mods looks really, really good (Gino says we are not even 50% there yet!!! :eek: )
- Gino knows this stuff inside out! :)

One thing, when we put the full on test patterns, we see some sort of vertical banding on the left side on the screen on the three colors; like vertically modulated bars. I am using MP2 VIM and necks. Could it be the CCM? Doesn't really worry me because right now this is on the left side of the left PJ, but if it happens on the other will it will affect the blendzone.

MORE PICTURES BIG DOG!!!!! MORE PICTURES!!!!! :D

Cliffy

More pics tomorrow. We've done one today of the tube face... EDGE TO EDGE usage.... :)

I am still so in awe that I cannot even write... All I can say right now is that every indication says this is going to be bright enough for my.... 15.7 ft screen!!! :) Yes, I am running my tubes at 63 but this is so freaking amazing that I'd really change the tubes when/if I have to.

So far this is the best picture I've ever seen. Let's see if we can get the blend right tomorrow... that would be the final test.

I've bought a light meter so I'll post some figures in about 3 weeks (when I get the meter).

More pics tomorrow. We've done one today of the tube face... EDGE TO EDGE usage.... :)

I am still so in awe that I cannot even write... All I can say right now is that every indication says this is going to be bright enough for my.... 15.7 ft screen!!! :) Yes, I am running my tubes at 63 but this is so freaking amazing that I'd really change the tubes when/if I have to.

So far this is the best picture I've ever seen. Let's see if we can get the blend right tomorrow... that would be the final test..........

Andres

I am pleased that you are pleased. I usually run Contrast 40 on my meager 107" screen width, 50 if visitors are viewing. I finally got to speak with Gino on the phone! Carry on mates.....

More pics tomorrow. We've done one today of the tube face... EDGE TO EDGE usage.... :)

I am still so in awe that I cannot even write... All I can say right now is that every indication says this is going to be bright enough for my.... 15.7 ft screen!!! :) Yes, I am running my tubes at 63 but this is so freaking amazing that I'd really change the tubes when/if I have to.

So far this is the best picture I've ever seen. Let's see if we can get the blend right tomorrow... that would be the final test.

I've bought a light meter so I'll post some figures in about 3 weeks (when I get the meter).

Yep. :)

Panamorphic with Zilla = MAXIMUM PHOSPHOR.

Cant wait for the pics. Glad to see you guys are having a blast! Is Gino's significant other sick of you two obsessing in your theater yet? ;) :D

Cliffy

Andres

I am pleased that you are pleased. I usually run Contrast 40 on my meager 107" screen width, 50 if visitors are viewing. I finally got to speak with Gino on the phone! Carry on mates.....

Contrast 40?

Sheesh. You need a bigger screen. :p

Cliffy

Andres

More pics! More pics!

Hey - we stayed up until 6:30AM yesterday (we ran into some problems with one of my new tubes -which we replaced with another one- and also one of my MP2 VIMs seems wacky)... but we finally got it to work!!!

We'll do the color tracking today and we'll post a few pics! :)

Hey guys,

Here's some pics as promised...

The setup:
http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/3908/blend001oq2.jpg

This one will give you an idea of the size:
http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/8731/blend017tc8.jpg

And this one shows the great detail:
http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/243/blend012mx6.jpg

All the above has been possible thanks to Gino!!! :-)

AWESOME!!!! I wish I was there!!!!!!! :D

Cliff

Dang! :D:D:D:D

Must. Change. Pants.

Well Chuck me Farley!

Damnnnnnnnnnnnn

:)

Awesome work!

Think "Personal Imax" and you begin to get the idea :D:D:D

Think "Personal Imax" and you begin to get the idea :D:D:D

Um, yeah, what he said. That is sick as all hell. :p

Cliff

Hey guys,

Here's some pics as promised...

The setup:
http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/3908/blend001oq2.jpg

Now thats what I call a decent size for a picture. It looks like your room is actually wider than it is deep!

Antorsae,as great as the setup is I am equally impressed with the quality of the dedicated floor space you have for this. How big is the room? It looks like the floor slopes just like a professional theater. How did you do that?

I can already tell, this is really going to be first class.

Bloody Hell :eek:

Wow! Be careful when you follow 2 different forums at once!

WOW Andres!!!

I looks AWESOME.

Quite an improvement since the time I was there, just a few weeks ago!

Way to go!

Now thats what I call a decent size for a picture. It looks like your room is actually wider than it is deep!

Antorsae,as great as the setup is I am equally impressed with the quality of the dedicated floor space you have for this. How big is the room? It looks like the floor slopes just like a professional theater. How did you do that?

I can already tell, this is really going to be first class.

the room looks much bigger than it actually is and this is due to the distortion caused by using an ultra wide lens. I believe it must be Gino who took the photo using a Canon 5D + an ultra wide lens (either 17-40 or the 16-35). The sloping floor is also due to the distortion.

Incredible ,incredible ! Andres, you are great guy I'm really happy to see you have gotten close to your dream. Talk about a cinematic experience, except much better ! :)

Art

You guys have no idea!! Personal IMAX is an understatement. This thing is wide! 15ft wide! I thought mine was big, this is 15% bigger yet again, using a little higher gain, and his tubes are brand spanking new. Despite the screen width, Andres likes his first row of seating less than screenwidth, it is completely in your face. Then the screen takes up most of the front wall, which adds to the illusion of sheer size. I wish we had the luxmeter, I´m very curious to see how much light we are getting. His batcave really adds too.

It was hard work, due to some hiccups along the way, i didn´t get enough time to really dial it in. We are maybe 75% there, if I had another 2 days I´d be really super impressed, not to say it isn´t already incredible! We were joking that in the photos we took, we look like hobbits next to the screen.

My biggest reward for showing Andres how to set it all up was his giggling like a little kid. Then it became non stop swearing, and then on the final day, it was his complete loss for words!

Thanks Andres, I´ve had a blast, you´re a real enthusiast, and as Jessica joked about, i´m glad to finally meet someone as insane as myself :p

Which reminds me, I need to give you a call so we can finally watch a movie tonight!

Hehehe

More pix!!!!!!! :D:D

You guys have no idea!! Personal IMAX is an understatement. This thing is wide! 15ft wide!

IMAX screens are 52 feet wide so it's not really an understatement :)

I'd still kill to see it though...

Hi all,

Thanks for the comments.

Yes, the room looks a bit bigger (and distorted) in the pics as we have used a 10-20mm ultra-wide lenses to take some pics (except the T-rex one which we used a 55mm one to capture the detail). The room dimensions are roughly 6m wide and 8m deep. There are two ceiling heights, the ceiling is higher over the second row - this helps acoustics and gives more breathing space to the second row.

I am extremelly happy with the picture we managed to put up on the screen. We only did a quick grayscale tracking to get 6500K on one projector and adjust the other by eye (I must say that Gino has a very well trained eye... way better than mine! I will have to use the colorimeter in both projectors and I intent to use it too to do grayscale tracking in 3 zones for each PJ in the blend zone). That said, and with a very rough blend setup, the blend zone is not noticeable while watching movies.

I will be ceiling mounting the projectors soon. I first need to get the new OEM blue tube fixed (it showed retrace lines, so we put an almost new one with 0 wear) and also I want the VIM on the right PJ to have the same mods as the left one (the left side has MP2 and the right MP1). I hope to get everything with regards to the equipment to my satisfaction very soon (VIM and blue tube mostly).

I will be posting measurements and more pics as I iterate through the setup.

Gino and I are just watching a movie... THIS IS FREAKING AMAZING!!! :)

IMAX screens are 52 feet wide so it's not really an understatement :)


Yes, but you not sitting 26 ft away from the IMAX screen, we are sitting at much less than screen width. :p

Hey - a few more comments:

I am running 1365 x 1024 @ 72 Hz on each projector. Pans at 72 Hz are *super smooth* and I can see no rainbows at 72 Hz (I can at 60 Hz). I believe the extra bandwith of the MP2 mods plus the Blendzilla (which basically relaxes BW requirements substantially) is really a factor for the crispness and liquidity of the image.

I will be needing some black material around the screen to frame it. Can somebody recommend a good one?

Hey - a few more comments:

I am running 1365 x 1024 @ 72 Hz on each projector. Pans at 72 Hz are *super smooth* and I can see no rainbows at 72 Hz (I can at 60 Hz). I believe the extra bandwith of the MP2 mods plus the Blendzilla (which basically relaxes BW requirements substantially) is really a factor for the crispness and liquidity of the image.

I will be needing some black material around the screen to frame it. Can somebody recommend a good one?

Andres,

I used black Velveteen. Soaks up light like the black hole. If I'm not mistaken, pretty much the same stuff Ruben uses for his frames. Gino will be able to report back to you after his visit what he thinks. :)

Cliffy

I am running 1365 x 1024 @ 72 Hz on each projector. Pans at 72 Hz are *super smooth* and I can see no rainbows at 72 Hz (I can at 60 Hz).


Rainbows?

And this one shows the great detail:
http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/243/blend012mx6.jpg

Nice work! Here's the original screen capture of around the same frame:
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/281/screenshotmplayer4se4.png
for full 2.6MB 1920x1080p capture, click here! (http://users.tpg.com.au/adventx/ht/Screenshot-MPlayer-4.png)

Rainbows?

Yes, I see rainbows on CRTs. Apparently this is due to the different decay time of the three phosphors and it is less noticeable the higher the refresh rate. At 72 Hz I cannot see them, but I do at 60 Hz.

Yes, I see rainbows on CRTs. Apparently this is due to the different decay time of the three phosphors and it is less noticeable the higher the refresh rate. At 72 Hz I cannot see them, but I do at 60 Hz.

Actually I see them also but only blue on my set up and then only with high contrast B&W films.

Art

Holy crap! Amazing!

I believe it must be Gino who took the photo using a Canon 5D + an ultra wide lens (either 17-40 or the 16-35). The sloping floor is also due to the distortion.FYI: I looked at the EXIF info and it's Gino's full-frame Canon 5D, but it's a 10mm lens (which is why it's so wide).

I used black Velveteen. Soaks up light like the black hole. I've been using velveteen for years as well. It soaks up light better than 'real' velvet and it's cheaper to boot. My screen frame's wrapped in it. It soaks up light so well that uou can *just* barely make out a full-white field shiniing on it! (That's with my single 8" 1200 lumen PJ of course... no blend here.) :(

Kal

Holy crap! Amazing!

FYI: I looked at the EXIF info and it's Gino's full-frame Canon 5D, but it's a 10mm lens (which is why it's so wide).


The lens are 10-20mm; and I believe Gino set them at 20mm. But yeah, it's wide.

Hi guys,

Just a quick update: I watched a movie last night with my wife and she said the screen was so big that she couldn't focus on the picture and she got a bit dizzy, so I've done a bit of size reduction to the picture (from 15ft wide to 12.5ft wide), and after a very rough setup my observations so far:

- I can now sit in the first row and see the whole picture without having to move my head/eyes too much (when we watched "Hero" with Gino and Jessica I could only focus on the subtitles... :mad: not anymore :rolleyes: ) Net of it is that the first row would be usable now by everybody (and not just me)

- Even without framing, the picture looks much more dynamic now. My wife says is even a bit too bright, but I like this a bit better, is SUPER DYNAMIC now... :cool:

- Obviously there's a compromise between size and brightness. I was running contrast at 63 for 15 ft. I find I like the picture MUCH more the 12.5 ft picture than the huge one. After seeing the 12.5 ft picture I recommend Blendzilla users to try this or surroundings.

Regards.

For me, having plenty of light adds to the dynamics of the image. I'm betting that you will get a much better image overall with 12.5' rather than 15'. What is the distance for your front row ?

Art

Hi guys,

..........Even without framing, the picture looks much more dynamic now. My wife says is even a bit too bright, but I like this a bit better, is SUPER DYNAMIC now... :cool:

- Obviously there's a compromise between size and brightness. I was running contrast at 63 for 15 ft. I find I like the picture MUCH more the 12.5 ft picture than the huge one. After seeing the 12.5 ft picture I recommend Blendzilla users to try this or surroundings.

Regards.

A bit smaller was my next recommendation but you found it anyway. :D

Art - the distance from the front row is now 3.4 meters, so I am still closer than 1x screen width.

I have just watched Serenity in HD-DVD... OH MY!!! :D :D

Art - the distance from the front row is now 3.4 meters, so I am still closer than 1x screen width.

I have just watched Serenity in HD-DVD... OH MY!!! :D :D

Serenity is one of my favorites. I made sure it was among the demo stuff I showed Gino on Friday.



Art

IMAX screens are 52 feet wide so it's not really an understatement :)

I'd still kill to see it though...

One of my coworkers worked for IMAX I guess the screens cost about 1 mil or so. He told me the specs of the setups before can't remember all of it. But Just think 10 18" subs in cement lined boxes. oh that would be amazing to have in a home theater. Oh wait that's about what Art has :p

How wide is that room looks huge.

How wide is that room looks huge.

No, it is not as big as it seems. The room is roughly 6m wide by 8m deep.

WRT to subwoofer, I am using 4 x 12" in the form of a Genelec HTS6 (btw, Gino: I had the C channel connected to the sub... go figure... :o )

Antorsae mega-setup you have there :D Can you say more about HTPC in your sistem ( soundcard,CPU, software you use...)

That's amazing Andres! I'm not a big screen fan, but I have to admit, that's pretty cool!

Obviously there's a compromise between size and brightness. I was running contrast at 63 for 15 ft. I find I like the picture MUCH more the 12.5 ft picture than the huge one. After seeing the 12.5 ft picture I recommend Blendzilla users to try this or surroundings.

Hi Andres, I'm glad you decided on this. As you know, I like to sit slightly further back than 1 screen width for this reason as I told you, less strain on the eyes, can see more of the picture and it's still in your face, and the sharpness is better. I also felt you'd do better decreasing size, but I assumed you wanted size above PQ. Now you see why I limited myself to 13'. Things are even brighter and punchier!

Hi Andres, I'm glad you decided on this. As you know, I like to sit slightly further back than 1 screen width for this reason as I told you, less strain on the eyes, can see more of the picture and it's still in your face, and the sharpness is better. I also felt you'd do better decreasing size, but I assumed you wanted size above PQ. Now you see why I limited myself to 13'. Things are even brighter and punchier!

So nice Gino to be putting a face to the posts now. :D

Hope I can make that long ass flight out to visit you one day!

Cliffy

Antorsae mega-setup you have there :D Can you say more about HTPC in your sistem ( soundcard,CPU, software you use...)

Sure:

- Core2Duo E6800 overclocked
- 4 Gbytes RAM
- 2 x Nvidia 8800 GTX (SLI)
- Soundblaster X-Fi Fatality Pro gamer (iirc)

I use the following both PowerDVD and MPC for HD-DVD and .TS viewing.

Sure:

- Core2Duo E6800 overclocked
- 4 Gbytes RAM
- 2 x Nvidia 8800 GTX (SLI)
- Soundblaster X-Fi Fatality Pro gamer (iirc)

I use the following both PowerDVD and MPC for HD-DVD and .TS viewing.

Thanks

You use optical for DD and DTS and analoge outs (3,5mm into 2 RCA) for TrueHD? Did you maybe compare sound to stand alone unit how do they compare in sq?

Right now I am using analog out (5.1) directly to my Denon AVC-A1XVA (akin to the 5800MKII - I think) in "pure direct mode" so the Denon acts mainly as a pre-amp, sending the (analog) audio to the Genelec DI8A (unbalanced RCA to balanced XLR converter) and then to the corresponding Genelec amp (each of the L C R speakers has its own -callibrated- amp, the sub and the surrounds have built-in amps).

To be honest I have been unable to do much setup/testing on the Audio side. The Denon has something called Audissey for room correction and comes with a mic to do measurements; but I have not really tried it yet.

The one thing I will try soon is to just bypass the unbalanced->balanced conversion for the sub. The DI8A is spec'd at -/+ 1.5 dB at 18 Hz so I will run a straight RCA cable to the sub to see if the very low end of the HTS6 is affected by the DI8A freq response.

My main focus right now is:

1) Try to revamp one of the new LCP tubes I got (BLUE) which as advised by Terry could have some dirt in the gun (it showed retrace lines). I am right now using a 9+ blue tube I got, but I really like to run the PJs with as much identical components as possible.

2) Get one of my MPv2 VIMs fixed; and find out if some vertical lines at the left of the screen on bright scenes are caused by the other MPv2 VIM.

...and I need to do the above before ceiling mount the PJs.... :)

I am using "just" 5.1 as I have not installed the rear speakers yet... :(

2) Get one of my MPv2 VIMs fixed; and find out if some vertical lines at the left of the screen on bright scenes are caused by the other MPv2 VIM.

...and I need to do the above before ceiling mount the PJs.... :)

Andres

Put up some pix of the lines problem, white field too.

Hi Tim,

I will post some pics of the vertical lines probably tomorrow.

For the time being, here's some additional screenshots of the blend at 15ft:

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/122/blend016ps8.jpg

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/9271/blend014ks8.jpg

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/4456/blend019oo9.jpg

I really need to get some practice making nice and FOCUSED :) pictures...

The last one is a computer game (Far Cry). One thing that has really amazed me is the speed of the CRT and lack of any movements artifacts. My HTPC is good enough to run most if not all games at 1920x1024 @ 72 Hz with VSync enabled so the quality and fluidity is amazing! :)

The first Marquee is being ceiling mounted as we speak! We used a "kind of" unistrut method with the locally available stuff, looks very nice and the PJ doesn't need to be "railed in" just attached to the top struts in place.

Work in progress:
http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/530/img2328jj9.jpg

More pics will follow tomorrow.

Now I need to put the replacement blue tube I just received from Terry, and prepare the other Ultra for its lift to heaven... :) Then more painting work to be done to the white Ultra and the rails...

Hi,

Good to see this is going well.

:)

Looking good there Andres... :)

Andy... any progress on your end?

I will start my own thread ;)

This one is for the glory of Andres,

But YES, mage progress :D

Hi guys,

Some updates:

The two PJs are ceiling mounted now, and the room looks a bit better:

http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/8647/mg2681na9.jpg

Things to do next:

- Put new blue tube received from Terry. THANKS TERRY!!!
- I am waiting to receive my Special 02P VIMs from MP and then I'll redo setup again.
- Then neck boards. Setup again.
- Frame screen with blackout material
- Run it for a while
- Cover the projectors with black painted covers (already painted them)
- ... NEVER touch it back until something that significantly beats this setup in all areas shows up... :-)

Oh!! How right was Gino when he told me that you really need to become a MASTER to do this right.

Er! How big is your place ???

That looks like the size of my entire house !!!

Wide-angle lenses tend to distort things. I'd say the room has about 48 sq. meters. Not that big, but just enough :-)

Wide-angle lenses tend to distort things. I'd say the room has about 48 sq. meters. Not that big, but just enough :-)

Ok, that's it. I'm gonna move out there with you big dog. I'll bring the G90's and we'll do a quad stack/blend.

That should cover about a year and a half rent! :D

Cliffy

Mmm! Quad stack n blend you say :D .

Any one who actually wants to do that I have the kit here :eek: .

Perfect set of four 1209s Graphics fully loaded with all options.

Er! How big is your place ???
That looks like the size of my entire house !!!It DOES look huge! Maybe it's "only" 48 sq meters (that's "only" 3x bigger than my HT) but how high is the ceiling? You must be aiming those 'Quees down quite a bit! It looks like they're at least 3-4 meters off the floor?

But I'm still agog at the screen shot with you in it, Andres -- either you're about 1.2m tall, or that is a freakin' GIGANTO screen!! Holy #%# !! How big IS that thing?

The screen is 5m meter wide. That shot with me was done when Gino was here, and we were running 5m wide... the problem was that it was way to big for the first row (I remember we saw House of the Flying Daggers and I could only focus on the subtitles... :eek: :eek: ).

I have reduced the size to 3.8 meters wide right now. VERY BRIGHT and almost ideal for me to watch in the first row (some people prefer the second row).

The PJs are mounted using a method very similar to Unistrut. The tilt is not really much, and I made sure (as per Tim's instructions) that the lenses (HD10Fs... FINALLY!) fall under the screen area.

The ceiling is a bit higher right after the PJs (60 cm higher).

I did a grayscale tracking yesterday but I got very odd readings (blue drive at 15, so everything looked wrong)... then I found out I hadn't removed the "baffle" of the Spyder 2 for the readings... go figure. I'll redo everything this weekend if time allows.

CLIFF: Absolutely! You are invited here for your world CRT tour! Just make sure you do not bring guns with you :D

The one thing I'd like to say is that if you haven't seen 1080p @ 72 Hz you owe it to yourself to try it.

Those stacking or with single 9" that can do 1080p @ 60 Hz but start to blur at 72 Hz, try doing 1920x800p @ 72 Hz (for 2.40:1 movies) and maybe the PJ would react better.

Dear Andres;

I also would llike to come visit you sometime. My luggage will be much lighter than Cliff's. I won't be bringing any 9" CRTs with me!!!

MP and I are about to start completely redoing the Virginia BlendZilla setup, for the East Coast BlendZilla Meet Part Deaux, to be shown at a personal IMAX far away from you, on 2007 October 20. You are cordially invited to flit across the pond, and pop on in.

Mike and I start by taking both projectors down. The left one gets a brand new blue CRT, and possibly a contrast board. The right one gets an upgraded CLM, HDM, convergence and possibly a contrast board. I ended up with a 12 foot wide 2.35 : 1 SmX acoustically transparent screen. Not quite up to your standards, but not too shabby either.

I completely agree with you on the 1920 x 1080 @ 72 Hz thingee. My goal is to have all sources (HD DVD, Blu-ray DVD, ATSC tuner, legacy media) input 1920 x 1080 @ 72 Hz to the DVX-8022, and the DVX output ~1150 x 1080 @ 72 Hz to each Marquee. What say you and Gino and I (along with the guys in Phoenix) start a lobbying campaign with Analog Way to upgrade the firmware?

William

We were joking that in the photos we took, we look like hobbits next to the screen.


You KNOW that you've just set the stage for owner-in-frame shots for you guys with REALLY big screens? I'm picturing one or both of you in hobbit hats with hobbit pipes shoulder to shoulder in the back of Gandalfs' buckboard!

William,

We have been lobbying on multiple continents for both hardware & software changes.

I thought it was rather odd that A Ways new products announcements at Infocomm contained no products in their entire line that utilized HDMI. Now don't get me wrong, I hate it too but that is a rather amazing position for a presentation technology company to put itself in.

The two PJs are ceiling mounted now, and the room looks a bit better:
...
Oh!! How right was Gino when he told me that you really need to become a MASTER to do this right.

Andres, that's a bit of an understatement mate, your room looked like something exploded in it when I was working in there. Looks like you can walk around fine in there now without tripping over! :D :p

I might be able to make that second trip out later if you still need some help. ;)

Would imagine the Genelec system is wired up properly and sounding much better now too. I was watching Harsh Times on HD-DVD last night, the LFE on the TrueHD track is unbelievable... I've never felt the kitchen rattle so much!

Ok, that's it. I'm gonna move out there with you big dog. I'll bring the G90's and we'll do a quad stack/blend.

That should cover about a year and a half rent! :D


You bring those G90's down here Cliffy... the ht room is 8m x 9m.. plenty of room ;)

Gino;

You might have better luck with Art's G90s, since he's gone (hands to face, swift breath inward)......digital.

Mark;

I most humbly apologize for leaving you off the BlendZilla owner's list. We need to ratchet up the lobbying. Who exactly have you been lobbying? I come from Lobbytown USA. Remember? And I know Mark Haflich!!! That has to count for something. :)

I would think that firmware upgrades are much more likely than HDCP compliant DVI or HDMI inputs.

William

There are only 2 features I'd really like for the DVX

1. Custom output resolutions with control of timings. If not, at least the option of 1440x1080 or Hx1080 @72/75 to each projector
2. IR control. If not, at least the option to auto select active input, or auto select input1 on power up.

You might have better luck with Art's G90s, since he's gone (hands to face, swift breath inward)......digital.

I wouldn't trade what I have for any CRT in the world. My review of MP's special 03 mods will be up this weekend.

MP and I are about to start completely redoing the Virginia BlendZilla setup, for the East Coast BlendZilla Meet Part Deaux, to be shown at a personal IMAX far away from you, on 2007 October 20. You are cordially invited to flit across the pond, and pop on in.



William - another meet will be awesome! Any chance to move this meet closer to Cedia (Sept 5-9 2007?)? That would kill two birds with one stone! :) Of course... you are invited here!

Andres, that's a bit of an understatement mate, your room looked like something exploded in it when I was working in there. Looks like you can walk around fine in there now without tripping over! :D :p

I might be able to make that second trip out later if you still need some help. ;)

Would imagine the Genelec system is wired up properly and sounding much better now too. I was watching Harsh Times on HD-DVD last night, the LFE on the TrueHD track is unbelievable... I've never felt the kitchen rattle so much!

Oh yes... when you were visiting the HT room (and my whole house, btw) was in an almost embarrassing state (recently moved in) .

Gino... all the Genelecs are properly setup now. When we ceiling mounted the PJs I insisted in testing the ceiling mount by leaving the elevating platform in place and pumping the LFE at an unreasonable level (Halo 3 trailer, Gears of War on XB360) and watching that the PJ didn't fall :) BIG BASS!

I'd LOVE to have you over here! What do you think US Cedia with a little stop over in sunny Spain? :)

With regargs to Analog Way... I am not very optimistic that they will implement the features we want, even if some are ubber-trivial (follow refresh rate of active signal, auto-select upon start up... COME ON!).

BR - Andres

Used to spend more time in Spain when my Sister resided in Madrid, but now that she is in Italy my travel habits have adjusted.

William, I snuck on the list so no worries. I talk mainly to the Dallas Analog Way Rep & to Benoit Lamy. We should probably step that up to Ludovic Mellot or the President Marc Loret. Not sure of the patience level however since we are not the target market.

Can we please just go HD-SDI all the way to the PJ & forget about this ridiculous HDMI "handshake" crap!!

There are only 2 features I'd really like for the DVX

1. Custom output resolutions with control of timings. If not, at least the option of 1440x1080 or Hx1080 @72/75 to each projector
2. IR control. If not, at least the option to auto select active input, or auto select input1 on power up.

Gino - point one is available on TVONE blending units.

point 2 - the tvone unit will boot up into the last settings from standyby OR total powerup.

"Macro" selection allows different settings for different viewing ratios - I now have 16:9 and 2.35:1 setup and the push of one button changes all settings.

Zoom values, blend zone size, H&V reposition, etc

The TVONE 7200 unit is NOT remote control, BUT can be used under a "control system" that outputs RS232 - eg Crestron, RTI, Pronto etc.

(ALSO NOTE the RTI controllers can now control Crestron processors)


BY THE WAY - ANYONE looking for a cheap all in one blending box then I think the time is nearly here, I will provide more information very soon, BUT I HAVE THE ANSWER, A full evaluation unit will be here VERY soon, its a specific blending unit basic unit will be 2 channel (What most of us require), and the final cost should be about £1700.00 . "whisper quiet" with several inputs. Currently NOT HDCP compliant but that is being looked into.................

Maybe I will start a new thread about this.....................

Can we please just go HD-SDI all the way to the PJ & forget about this ridiculous HDMI "handshake" crap!!

Thats a tough one...............

HD SDI seems very difficult to get hold of, and WORKING modules even harder :( .

Though slowly more are available, just price is ususlly fairly high due to low demand - Yep I agree drop the price more will be bought, BUT currently broadcast will buy at high prices, consumer market will not..........Until there is a massive supply of modules this is a difficult situation.

HDMI is terrible, I still cant get the Sony BDP-S1 I have on loan here to run correctly and I would love to see 1080p24 from it ........

I don't fully understand what the HD-SDI fuss is about. A reality check:

- HDCP can be stripped off by a number of devices. Some hard to find, but they exist and work today.

- HDMI, even DVI-D single-channel can transmit up to 1080p @ 72 Hz. I don't think HD-SDI can do that; please educate me if I my understanding is incorrect. I have my HT equipment in a separate room than the PJs and DVI-D works with no issues. I am using 50 ft. DVI cables.

I don't like HDMI/DVI either; I would prefer a more solid transmission framework, but this is what we have and it works today for 1080p @ 72 Hz. DVI-D double-channel (one DVI cable, but connector with all pins in both ends) can double that. Many PC video cards support DVI-D double-channel already but unfortunately many DVI-D receivers are DVI-D single-channel only (e.g most 1080p monitors, the DVX8022, etc.).

The advantage as I see it, and this is for my own system........

High quality DVI cable are expensive, HD SDI are cheap.

SDI / HD SDI is taken from early in the video chain within the player (HD DVD, Blu Ray, SKY etc) and so a cleaner signal from the very start of the video chain.

The reason HD SDI will inly be about 1080p24 / 29.97 etc is that is what the player is able to produce - I dont know the limit of HD SDI but it is higher than that. You can also have dual link HD SDI.

I think it might be worth you asking other SDI users . I only started SDi with my HD SDI HD DVD player.

In my system ths also allows the scaler to be next to the projectors so very short RGBHV (1-2m) cables.


I have to say that 50ft in a DVI cable is very impressive, im sure the spec for DVI is for about 9-12ft at 1080p

Have you tried to run very short cables and see if you notice a differance ???

At 50ft I would suggest fibre DVI cables - that adds another format change in the video signal chain which I feel best to avoid, but sometimes cant be helped.


By the way - Im now running 1080x817 to each PJ - they just got sharper :D
Any custom resolution upto 2048x2048 can be used.

Hi Andy... can you input 2000ish by 1080 @ 72 Hz to the blending unit via a digital input?

Regarding my DVI-D cables, no; I have not tried an A/B vs. other shorter cables but I have A/B'd them vs high-quality RGBHV of the same length; conclusions so far:

- I perceive no difference vs. RGBHV vs. DVI-D
- Test patterns look great on both; and the fact that there are no sparkles in DVI-D shows no signal is being lost; so I'd say signal integrity is 100%. This is based on Moome DVI-D input card for marquee.

Regarding the comparison one must note that we are really testing:

- Blendzilla DACs + RGBHV cable
- DVI-D cable + Moome DVI-D DACs.

I will repeat this test when I get my new moome HDMI cards; which supposedly have 10 bit DACs (as opposed to 8-bits as present in the DVI-D one).

I think that unless you have some crazy requirements (absurd cable lengths... etc.) SDI doesn't really add anything.

Dear Andres;

The next time that I know I am going to Europe is for a conference in Scotland, in 2008 October. If a trip comes up before that, I will let you know.

I cannot host a BlendZilla Meet before October 19. A Mars mission proposal I have been working on for almost 2 years is due to NASA on October 19. This is going to take all my time between now and then, with a little left over to set up for the next Meet.

Who makes high quality 1080P @ 72 Hz DVI-D cables? I have Belden 1694 RGBHV cables run from the BlendZilla to each Marquee. I would also like to try the RGBHV versus DVD-D test.

What BlendZilla resolution are you outputting to each Marquee @ 72 Hz? Have you tried all of the resolutions that are available for blending?

William

Hi Andy... can you input 2000ish by 1080 @ 72 Hz to the blending unit via a digital input?

Currently the DVI-D input is limited to 108Mhz

1080p30 will sneak in.



However if im right then you would input 1080p24 and set the output refresh rate to 72Hz.

IF you were coming from a PC then you could input RGBHV up to 2048x2048, max vertcal refresh rate 250Hz, max horizontal frequency 150Khz

By the way - Im now running 1080x817 to each PJ - they just got sharper :D

Why this resolution Andy? For 2.35 movies? You don't see scanlines? Or this is not an issue as your screen isn't very tall?

William,

I am using 60-ft Belden 7712A cables (purchased from Blue Jeans cable) and the following DVI cables:

DVI Male Digital/DVI Male Digital Dual Link (24AWG) Cable - 50FT (Gold Plated/Black) (P/N 2185)

Which are not really very expensive ($50/ea). I have tested them to do 1365x1024 @ 72 Hz. I have NOT tested them yet to do 1080p @ 72 Hz to each PJ as this is not a configuration you'd use to feed the Marquees with the Blendzilla anyway. If 50 ft doesn't work at such high res/freq, you may try cat5/6 dvi extenders. I have one but have not tested it yet. They are ~$300.

I forgot: DVI cables purchased from monoprice

Why this resolution Andy? For 2.35 movies? You don't see scanlines? Or this is not an issue as your screen isn't very tall?

my thoughts....talking out loud.........

for 2.35 there are 817 lines in the actual image area
for 2.4:1 there are 800 lines
for 16:9 1080 lines.

My opinion is that any upscale might soften the image - so I decided to go right back to native resolutions, this brings with it reduced bandwidth, lower running temps, sharper focus. We are talking tiny changes here, but they are still visible in the image.

at 1080x817 if you are within 1m of the screen then I can seen faint scan lines.

I have a rare set of eyes !!! I have 20:20 vision - thats true of many people, but and i did not know about this till a couple of years ago - I actually have what was called "20:20 Zero perscription vision" - that means I was able to refocus every single lens set placed infront of my eyes - Im not an optician so I hope that makes sense to others - for me that means I believe I am able to be critical of a setup beyond some others.

I dont see scan lines from any row of seating

this is just part of testing and looking for the best options, I can saw that the blend looked the best it has ever been last night. The only issue I could see was at high IRE levels atround 100 - That is an issue of the green tubes, I believe the next set of projectors will not suffer from that.

The TVONE will allow any custom resolution to be used - this takes about 30 seconds to create each one. So I decided to test some out.

What is also available are "macro" recalls of different settings - so one button press and a different set of perameters for 2.4 / 2.35 / 16:9 blend, size etc are all recalled - The only down side I have found so far is the lack of an IR control - BUT RS232 control is there and these are units NOT designed for the domestic market place - the control system is being looked into for my Home Cinema at the mo.......(Im waiting for RTI to release the R3 remote in Black which is due soon.....)
The only other issue I have is the fan noise - I have a way round that but I just gotta wait till TVONE agree as this requires me to open the case for modfication, its not high on my list at the mo........


I am about to forward another "feature request" to TVONE to do with the Marco system - I have to say that these guys have been great to work with, my requests have been actioned or added to an action list - Priority related of course and the list is from all users. They are actually getting things done and that makes me a real happy customer :) .

The above are mentioned as plus point for TVONE and not to be taken as negative points agains other firms, I was not at all happy with Nvidia as I never got anywhere with them.

If 50 ft doesn't work at such high res/freq, you may try cat5/6 dvi extenders. I have one but have not tested it yet. They are ~$300.


Please dont !!!

I use cat5 video systems on large commercial systems - the results are not as good as I would like.

The image quality is reduced.

Some commercial installations are not as concerned about the image quality and so the cat5 route reduces costs but in the long run also add issues to the image.


I would run RGBHV from Di Ventix to the PJs - I still think for my Barcos thats the best option for my system.


I post based on first hand use of these products.

Used to spend more time in Spain when my Sister resided in Madrid, but now that she is in Italy my travel habits have adjusted.

William, I snuck on the list so no worries. I talk mainly to the Dallas Analog Way Rep & to Benoit Lamy. We should probably step that up to Ludovic Mellot or the President Marc Loret. Not sure of the patience level however since we are not the target market.

Can we please just go HD-SDI all the way to the PJ & forget about this ridiculous HDMI "handshake" crap!!


Why not switch to TV One, the all HD-SDI (unfortunately not 3, let alone 4,5 gigabit/s) model is about the same price as the Blendzilla?

The Analog RGB/low res. DVI boxes or the pc card are less expensive , starting at around 1000,- Dollar/Euro, and would also allow for a four way blend with two boxes/cards.

I have seen the then fairly new 7200 (at least that's what it/they said;-)) on a small screen using two small lcd projectors, at ISE 2007, at the beginning of this year and the blendzone looked okay, although was in a lit exhibition hall.

From their IBC preview email:

The new C2-7260 Dual Channel Video Processor is going to be hot talking point this year. Like the existing and popular C2-7200, the C2-7260 is feature-laden with an astounding arsenal including Dual PIP, Seamless Switching, Multiple Conversion and Scaling including SD-HD conversion, Chroma and Luma Keying and also the fantastic new Edgeblending feature, but unlike the C2-7200, the C2-7260 now adds an additional 6 inputs of SD/HD-SDI giving a total of 8 SD/HD-SDI inputs.

The new C2-7310 video AND audio processor makes debut in Europe
The C2-7310 Dual Channel Video and Audio Processor will also be making its debut in Europe. Incorporating the same features and functions as the C2-7200, the new C2-7310 adds the most powerful audio processing in its category. It allows the user to embed, de-embed, delay, mix, route, and sample rate convert an astonishing 48 channels of Digital Stereo Audio to satisfy even the most challenging requirements.

Edit: I see MadMrH beat me to it. TV One became of interest when they started to include the blend option in their firmware (late last year?). Since all (most) products share this firmware, the function is also standard on the cheaper products (compared to the top of the line 7000 series at 6-16 K list).

Late last year/early this year they launched the 260 pc card at Euro 875,- plus tax, list (US pricing generally lower on these US products). And a few months ago they announced their One Task line Corio2 scaler/switcher box with the same firmware, so the same blendfunction as the more expensive boxes (but would one need two?).

I also asked for higher resolution DVI inputs (and outputs, as they also lack on the 7200 they were showing, the fully loaded HD-SDI version wasn't out yet, so a DVI-in/RGB-out option would be nice for CRT owners, I suggested. Of course this is not a key market for them, but with many higher resolution presentation projectors being fitted with DVI inputs they took on the suggestion and told me 'watch this space'.

UKP 1700,-, sounds like a lot, compared with their recently launched stand-alone box: "The 1T-C2-400 PC/HD Scaler retails at £445 (€655) and is available to order now". If my memory serves me right this one was said to include the Corio 2 blend functionality, but I can't confirm this from the online specsheet, http://www.inside.nl/mailing/200705/pdf/1T-C2-400.pdf.

But even if they are single channel units, given their price (roughly UKP 1000,- for two One Task units) the new stand alone boxes as well as the pc cards are still worth looking into.

Why not switch to TV One, the all HD-SDI (unfortunately not 3, let alone 4,5 gigabit/s) model is about the same price as the Blendzilla?

I don't understand your argument here. What does the TVOne have that BlendZilla can't do to want to spend the same amount of money? Is it because it has so many HD-SDI connections and audio processing?? What about in terms of blending PQ and functionality? Just very interested, if it can give me a better image I'm all for it. Do you know if they have one without the audio processing? So atm how do we connect our CRT's to it?

FYI, Mark (damon) already has his DVX.

They are combining an audio processor into the existing model, the 7200 MadMrH is using, to get this new 7310. So, the base product doesn't include an audio processor.

The 7260 was introduced at NAB, and added 6 further six HD/SD-SDI inputs to the 7200. The 7200 already has an HD/SD-SDI input, and would be considerably less expensive than the Blendzilla, starting at I believe 6.5 K Euro plus tax (would have to check the price list for exact amount). Adding things like the extra HD-SDI inputs (+outputs) runs the most expensive version to about 16K list, the same as the Blendzilla.

I did indeed respond to the "why can't we just have all HD-SDi and be done with it" remark, and the expectation that it would not come from that vendor (of the Blendzilla, not going to check its name, as it is 5 AM overhere), at least not anytime soon. If one has the Blendzilla budget there is an HD-SDI alternative out there, ready to be acquired of the shelf.

The same software (all of this runs in software on FPGAs) is also used in less expensive PC cards and 'One Task' boxes, introduced following the 7200. The 7200 being the model in which they started to add blending as a standard feature. These cheaper options being the ones we were most interested in on the Dutch forum :D .

I gathered that he already had a Blendzilla, and was generally happy with the blender, except for some issues, like the HD-SDI inputs and control issues, lacking custom resolutions, which the 7200 does support, and wasn't satisfied with the way the manufacturer supported its product/responded to his needs. For existing Blendzilla owners throwing that blender into the bin would probably not be much of an option, as they already found work around for connectivity and control issues.

Also there was a question mark at the end of that sentence, providing people with the opportunity to tell us why they wouldn't go for the TV One option.

I read today that MadMrH is expecting a blendzilla to compare it to the 7200, so I would wait and see what he has to say after putting both through the wringer.

I haven't seen the Blendzilla, so can't comment on performance. I did see a limited digital set-up with the 7200, which looked good. The first results from MadMrH also look promising. The software approach does work in its favour, nothing being set in sillicon.

Dear Andres and Gino;

MP came over on Sunday and we finished swapping the blue and red CRTs on the left projector. I guess we earned my new signature (the one with the triple entendre). :)

Gino, when you did the swap, did you

1) rerun the red G2 cable throughout the projector, or

2) did you not swap the red and blue G2 cables and just remembered they were reversed whenever setting up greyscale, or

3) did you lengthen the red G2 cable?

Andreas, have you swapped the red and blue CRTs on one of your projectors?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Hi - I have not yet swapped the tubes, but I plan to do so. I have received a new B tube from Terry (the original one I got shown retrace lines and Terry sent me a replacement one as the dust didn't go with the G2/contrast procedure... GREAT SERVICE TERRY and thanks!) so I have to take that B down and while I'm at it, swap the R and G.

I'd also like to know about the G2 and how exactly one is it do it before I embark on it.

I am waiting for my 02P Specials from MP to do the final setup... if there is such thing.

I did indeed respond to the "why can't we just have all HD-SDi and be done with it" remark, and the expectation that it would not come from that vendor (of the Blendzilla, not going to check its name, as it is 5 AM overhere), at least not anytime soon. If one has the Blendzilla budget there is an HD-SDI alternative out there, ready to be acquired of the shelf.
Actually, the blendzilla already comes with dual HD-SDI inputs and outputs. I think the problem is having HD-SDI inputs on the CRT projector.

I gathered that he already had a Blendzilla, and was generally happy with the blender, except for some issues, like the HD-SDI inputs and control issues, lacking custom resolutions, which the 7200 does support, and wasn't satisfied with the way the manufacturer supported its product/responded to his needs. For existing Blendzilla owners throwing that blender into the bin would probably not be much of an option, as they already found work around for connectivity and control issues. This is my dilemma. I'm really keen for custom resolutions. If Andy can say that the TVOne unit performs better than the DVX in terms of both PQ and control of the blend, then I have to consider if the improvement is worth the cost of selling my DVX for the TVOne.

MP came over on Sunday and we finished swapping the blue and red CRTs on the left projector. I guess we earned my new signature (the one with the triple entendre). :)

Gino, when you did the swap, did you

Congrats William! Nice signature :)

I'm sure you'll find like I did that having reds at centre will allow better focus in the blendzone.

To answer, I lengthened the G2 so that everything functions as normal.

Guys!

I was wondering if you had tried an HDFury straight into the DVX 15 pin inputs to deal with HDCP......? If so, how does it look?

Tim;

Your suggestion is precisely what I want to try, just as soon as Mike gets my projectors up and running again. We are not quite there yet.

In fact, I have a new Moome DVI/DVI repeater also on order, and want to do a faceoff between the HDFury and the Moome card, each through the BlendZilla. Stay tuned.

Eventually I would also like to install a pair of DVI input cards in the projectors, and go all digital into the Marquees, to see if that makes a difference.

William

Tim;

Your suggestion is precisely what I want to try, just as soon as Mike gets my projectors up and running again. We are not quite there yet.

In fact, I have a new Moome DVI/DVI repeater also on order, and want to do a faceoff between the HDFury and the Moome card, each through the BlendZilla. Stay tuned.

Eventually I would also like to install a pair of DVI input cards in the projectors, and go all digital into the Marquees, to see if that makes a difference.

William

Hello

That should work if the cable lengths are not too long.

The advantage as I see it, and this is for my own system........
The reason HD SDI will inly be about 1080p24 / 29.97 etc is that is what the player is able to produce - I dont know the limit of HD SDI but it is higher than that. You can also have dual link HD SDI.


Or single links at 3 or even 4.5 Gbit/s. The spatial/temporal resolution limit depends on the sampling scheme. 8, 10, 12 bit, 4:2:0, 4:2:2, 4:4:4. At 1080P50/60, 12 bit 4:4:4 you'll be looking at the 4.5 gigabit transport rate version.

What's expensive, a 1000, USD/Euro HD-SDI input card put in a mac (most popular among small post outfits), makes that one can do fairly high-end uncompressed editing and postproduction work, by oneself, just like the big boys do.

I also have a PC (not running at the mo) that uses a BlacMagic HD SDI input/output card.

I think its called HD Extreme, PCI based. With the use of software HD players that are now available.

This seems the best route for me , A HD DVD player is really PC based, not sure about the "Blu Haze!" players.......

My intention is to build a Blu ray/ HD DVD PC based player with 1080p24 output via the BlackMagic card, then use the TVONE unit to output 72Hz or above (projector dependant).

(Sorry if this is off topic - maybe a new thread for HD SDI type info etc ???)

I believe HD-SDI is inherently bandwidth limited; and while you can send 1080p24 using HD-SDI, I really don't see any benefit feeding the DVX it that way (which for HD-DVD already involves a mod of the player). I also think the notion of HD-SDI cables (coax) being cheap is true, but conversely the HD-SDI equipment is more expensive than DVI... ultimately HD-SDI vs. DVI pricing is a moot point considering the total cost of a blended solution.

If you are using a PC already as the HD-DVD/BR playback device, then I think it'd be easier (less components, etc.) to feed 1080 @ 72 directly to the blending unit.

Not still here, but DisplayPort promises more bandwidth than HDMI/DVI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort

Dear Andres;

Do you recommend running RGBHV or DVI video from an HTPC (at 1080P72) into the BlendZilla? One would think that, since the blending is done in the digital domain, that feeding the BlendZilla DVI would result in one fewer transition (leaves out the analog to digital transition), creating a better image.

And actually, while we're at it, another test I would like to run someday is to stay digital (with the video) from the HTPC to the BlendZilla to a pair of the new Moome HDMI cards. This would require installing a pair of DVI to HDMI cables, each about 5 meters long. I realize that this is testing the BlendZilla video DACs versus the Moome input card video DACs.

William

Dear Andres;

Do you recommend running RGBHV or DVI video from an HTPC (at 1080P72) into the BlendZilla? One would think that, since the blending is done in the digital domain, that feeding the BlendZilla DVI would result in one fewer transition (leaves out the analog to digital transition), creating a better image.

And actually, while we're at it, another test I would like to run someday is to stay digital (with the video) from the HTPC to the BlendZilla to a pair of the new Moome HDMI cards. This would require installing a pair of DVI to HDMI cables, each about 5 meters long. I realize that this is testing the BlendZilla video DACs versus the Moome input card video DACs.

William

Not trying to jump in on Andres William, but I tested the DVI input on the DVX and I personally prefer the RGBHV over it.

The fact that I had a bum unit though might have something to do with it........

Cliff

I've got the VP50 connected via rgbhv. I really should test out the DVI connection myself.

I've got the VP50 connected via rgbhv. I really should test out the DVI connection myself.

Gino,

The more and more time I spend with the VP50, the more I am impressed.

That is one hell of a processor for the price and not to mention it's been on the market for a year. :)

Would you agree? :cool:

Cliffy

I feed the DVX with 1920x1200 or 1920x1024 @ 72 Hz via DVI-D from an HTPC.

I have not even tried to feed RGBHV from that same computer as to avoid the extra analog->digital conversion. I have various cables already from the DVX to the PJs for the OUTPUT of the DVX: RGBHV, DVI-D and HDMI.

I am waiting to receive my Moome HDMI card and my two 03Ps and two 02P Specials to make a fair comparison of the HDMI vs. RGBHV. Right now i am using RGBHV as when feeding Marquees 1600x1200 @ 72 Hz it's a bit too high for DVI-D (1.0) and I see sparkles at low IRES (e.g. a black window becomes full of sparkles). I'll see whether HDMI fixes this.

I feed the DVX with 1920x1200 or 1920x1024 @ 72 Hz via DVI-D from an HTPC.

I have not even tried to feed RGBHV from that same computer as to avoid the extra analog->digital conversion. I have various cables already from the DVX to the PJs for the OUTPUT of the DVX: RGBHV, DVI-D and HDMI.

I am waiting to receive my Moome HDMI card and my two 03Ps and two 02P Specials to make a fair comparison of the HDMI vs. RGBHV. Right now i am using RGBHV as when feeding Marquees 1600x1200 @ 72 Hz it's a bit too high for DVI-D (1.0) and I see sparkles at low IRES (e.g. a black window becomes full of sparkles). I'll see whether HDMI fixes this.

Andres;

1) Why do you feed the BlendZilla 1920x1024@72 Hz? Why not 1920x1050@72 Hz, and skip a BlendZilla scaling step?

2) Will it be as simple as using a DVI to HDMI cable to go from the BlendZilla DVI out to the Moome card HDMI in, or are you using an HDMI cable, with an DVI to HDMI adapter at the BlendZilla end?

3) Did you order Moome input cards with Gamma control or not?

Gino:

Please let us know what the results of your RGBHV versus DVI test are.

William

Gino,

The more and more time I spend with the VP50, the more I am impressed.

That is one hell of a processor for the price and not to mention it's been on the market for a year. :)

Would you agree? :cool:


Yes, I have recommended many aussies to jump on the VP50, at the price point it can be had for now, there is nothing else to consider.

I am however patiently waiting for the Lumagen Radiance Pro, I think that the features this vp gives is a tweakers wet dream ;)

My 6 brand new LUGs, colour corrected c-elements, frankenyokes should be here within the month. I'm now considering dropping back down to 10' wide. When are you coming down under?!?

Right now i am using RGBHV as when feeding Marquees 1600x1200 @ 72 Hz

Andres, are you sure the DVX supports this? The manual says it tops out at 59.94 at 1600x1200, but I haven't tried this resolution at 72Hz.

I just wish that Analog would support 1440x1080@72/75 and 1600x1200@72/75, each would be perfect for 16:9 or 2.40:1 respectively.

William,

When I feed 1920x1024 or 1920x1050, I set each PJ vertical resolution to be 1024 and 1050 to avoid scaling as you mention. I have both HDMI->HDMI and DVI->DVI cables already ran from the rack where the DVX to the PJs, I will try both (using DVI->HDMI dongles).

Gino: yes, my typo/mistake. I was running 1600x1200@60 Hz; not 72 Hz.

Gino/William: do you know if it possible to select the screen type 16/9 in the DVX, send 1920x1080p to each PJ and make sure the aspect ratio is kept as 4/3 in the PJs? When I've tried it, I get "Vsync out of range" in the PJs.

BR - Andres

My 6 brand new LUGs, colour corrected c-elements, frankenyokes should be here within the month. I'm now considering dropping back down to 10' wide. When are you coming down under?!?

WOW!

At 1am this morning about 1.5 hours prior to you posting this I have a serious discussion about your system.

My honest views were that I was suprised you did not have "franken yokes", though I was unsure of what modifications to the focus board you have had done - I am of the understanding that this board when modified will bring the single largest improvement within the Marquees, this is also confirmed by two other Marquee modification experts.

We also talked about screen size in a blend, my opinion was that at 13-14 foot wide you would be running each PJ would be running around 7-8 ish screen width.

Thats similar size to what most of us in the UK run on a single projector, I know my blend is "tiny" at 8 foot wide but I and several others do feel that there is an advantage with the smaller screen.

Brightess yes - but thats not really my reason , nor do I consider it an issue on larger screens.

Accuracy of conv - that a real plus point, smaller the screen more accurate the conv. ability

Lens Focus ability - this is the "let down" for me....I currently use HD10L lens set, the HFQ900 wont focus down enough for the small screen - So maybe this is a neg point in my system, I have some new lens sets to try so I hope to have news in the next few days. I feel the lens should be used at its prime focus point - center of range whenever possible.

The use of LUG tubes is again the highest quality, curently im NOT running LUG tubes, but the 909s I have waiting will be.

For "ME" I really cant go larger than 8 foot wide, In fact Im really trying to go 8.5 foot wide and see if I can squeeze HFQ900's onto the PJs.

I do think a slightly smaller image will be better all round, 10 Foot is what I would like to have but it just does not fit into my room...............

I just wish that Analog would support 1440x1080@72/75 and 1600x1200@72/75, each would be perfect for 16:9 or 2.40:1 respectively.

Gino I was running these on my system. I can pick ANY resolution upto 2048x2048 , these is a custom resolution software driven utility.

It allows advanced control of all timing settings as well.

It takes no more than 1 minute to setup each resolution, name it and save to the blender.

The ONLY down side is that each firmware release reinstall the original resolution table - BUT, when I have the final resolution that I require (or list of) TVONE will add these into the resolution table list and so future firmware updates will be instantly ready for my system - How cool is that!

I do have to say the customer service is excellent from these guys, I have given them detailed feedback and each time they have made changes for the better, I can only give praise to companies with this level of customer service, its very rare these days to find, but worth every penny.............

Unlike writeups I read where "freebies" have been given out and I see people write about how wonderful they are, I even seen words from the supplier creep in, thats just funny to read and really treats propective customers as idiots - In this case I bought the TVONE device, the testing I have done is of great use to me in other fields, I will test diventix as well, I have decided to wait to do that until the 909s are on the ceiling, I then intend to run a side by side test of a number of devices available for blending. thats my aim for JAN next year - a massive shoot out..........

Oh, and I prefer RGBHV over digital , where possible/practical.

Although HD SDI as far as possible is top of my list.

Do you lose static convergence (raster positioning) when using the frankenyokes?

Do you lose static convergence (raster positioning) when using the frankenyokes?

Andres

In Marquees, the static convergence is implemented thru the scan yokes, by DC offsets from the sweep boards.

WOW!

At 1am this morning about 1.5 hours prior to you posting this I have a serious discussion about your system.


Andy, please clear your inbox, I'm trying to send you a PM

I have just re-done the two PJs from scratch again using the new B tube and doing full optical/magnetics again. PQ INCREDIBLE!

I went to the cinema yesterday to watch Pirates of the Caribbean: the Worlds End... either the PQ at the cinema was really bad or I am spoiled forever with my system... blacks looked grey and I could see the 48 flicker/shutter on bright scenes... it was a film-based cinema (not D-Cinema) as the copy is a few weeks (months?) old so you could see the dirt/etc.

I am temporarily using two different VIMs while MP performs his magic on my VIMs... in the meantime it is impossible to get the blend right as the VIMs (one MP1, another regular 02P) seem to produce different gammas.

I'd like to consider the frankenyokes v2. At this point I think the weakest point of the Marquees is the focus.

screenshots andres :)

I am about to get my two 03P VIMs, they are on their way, so finally I'll have a set of matched VIMs to get the blend right...

I've also acquired a set of 22-22 yokes to test in the Marquee. I plan on installing the 03P VIMs in the Marquees, setup everything, take a few pics, and try the 22-22 yokes on my testbench 9500LC.

Here's a few pics as promised:

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/8363/mg01601xm8.jpg

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/3973/mg0172kk0.jpg

I am rebuilding my laptop so I have done all color/blend calibrations by eye... so there's a lot of room for improvement wrt to 6500K gamma tracking and blend (right now the projectors are exhibiting different red gammas, so the blend is not perfect).

BTW, I have also installed Moome HDMI card w/ gamma option, and unmodded 03P VIMs.

I am waiting for my 02P "Specials" VIMs and VNBs.

Mike: is there any issue or recommendation wrt using Moome HDMI card with the gamma board and the "Specials"? Are you doing gamma tweaking on the mods?

BR - Andres

Close-up of the one above:
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/5855/mg01722yq2.jpg

Mike: is there any issue or recommendation wrt using Moome HDMI card with the gamma board and the "Specials"? Are you doing gamma tweaking on the mods?

BR - Andres

I'm not recommending that version of gamma correction to be used with the mods, though you may have good success by going with the gamma option. If gamma is to be used, I would recommend the type that's found with in PC cards and scalers, which I know does not cause the gain (700mv) to increase to the projector when the gamma is adjusted.

This may not be an issue for most, but if the gain is increased with gamma adjustment, so will the upper white level be effected. In other words, to get the best low end performance, you may be crushing/bleeding delicate whites on the other end. This is a trade-off I'm not willing to take a chance with.

So if using a scaler, go with the gamma option in the scaler. If no gamma option is available other than the Moome option, go with that, but kmeep in mind that it may have an adverse effect on the upper end (white crush/bleeding).

Awesome Andres!!!!!!! That looks REALLY GOOD!

Are you running 72hz? I cant remember if you were or not.

Cliffy

Hi Cliff - Yes, I am running 72 Hz; it is as smooth as butter :-)

I don't know if it can be done, but if you are running an HTPC try setting 1920x800 @ 72 (2.40:1) and feed your stack with that for a quick comparison.

The 03P VIM and the Moome card have been great upgrades. The added sharpness of the 03P VIM over the (stock) 02P is very obvious. I am in Mike's hands for the 02P specials...

That's awesome. So I take it that you are doing 1050P@72hz?

I wish I could do a CRT world tour man. That would be so damn cool!

Cliffy

Yes, 1400x1050P @ 72 Hz to each PJ. All digital from source (HTPC) to the HDMI Moome card.

Oh! A CRT world tour... I'd love to do it too! :) but my wife would probably kill me :(

Wow ,very very cool Andres ! How far from the floor is the bottom of your screen mounted ?

Art

Hi Art,

Here's some pics showing dimensions. I need to tilt down the PJs a bit that's why I am running 2.50:1 at the moment. Once tilted, the actual picture will be a bit down (right now I am blanking the top) and 2.40:1.

Here's a pic for reference:
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/6087/mg01961bn5.jpg

The screen with dimensions:
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/2323/screenlh9.jpg

With overlay showing dimensions of the screen:
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/2015/screenpicoverlaykb8.jpg

Best regards - Andres

Andres

You have taken the Personal Imax to an amazing level; we applaud you!!!!!!!

Andres, so you are now running with 12.5' wide? Are you planning to go bigger because your screenwall is still 16.5' wide? I'm sitting at 13' wide now, but am considering dropping down size a bit. Will see what happens when I install the LUG's and the frankenyokes first

Hi Gino,

Yes, I am running 12.5 ft wide. I am very comfortable with that size both in terms on size and brightness. I still need to tune physical setup a bit (tilt PJs down) and install the Frankenyokes, and the MP Specials when they arrive.

Other than that, the blend zone remains an issue because I have not matches the gammas on the 6 channels yet by measurement (just by eye).

One step at a time.

Looks really good! Wish I had the width for a screen that large, personal IMAX.

Hi guys, thanks for the comments! As much as I like my current setup I know it is still very much a work in progress. My goal is to have it *finished* by Christmas.

I think I'm in love! ;) This is absolutely amazing, guys. So, the point behind this is to end up with a 2.35/2.40 image that's using the entire face of the tubes, right? That being the case, are those of you doing blending also using your rigs for 16:9 material, or just for film? You guys rock! Andres, Gino, Cliff, Art - all y'all! And kudos to people like Mike, Tim, and Terry helping to keep the reference quality alive! Unfortunately, I don't have the 'entrance fee' for getting into something like this - a few people in the family would have to keel over first! (ha!) I hope someday I can invite y'all to Florida (in the winter!) for a meet of my own!

-Phil

Guys!

One can choose a range of screen aspect ratios with BlendZilla from 1.78 to 2.40 depending on ones' preference of source material. I watch a lot of HDTV, but my room is short and I wanted the projectors on low tables so, having tried 1.78 initially, the image looked too tall somehow so I elected 1.92 in a Stewart Luxus Deluxe with 1.0 Snowmatte fabric. Those watching mostly movies may want to go 2.35.

I am playing with some focus coil mods on my setup. Update here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11525442#post11525442

Tile Floor with the big Genelec sub. You are sure not missing any bass. Everyone is just looking at the picture ...well you needed to match that big dinosaur with big bass and you did... awesome. I was comtemplating that sub.


Joey Caldarella

Little update:

- I installed frankenyokes in both PJs
- I am tensioning the screen with a better method. I am getting rid of the micro-weaves... :-)
- I installed the latest MP "mikrons" in both PJs.
- I am using a fully digital chain:

HTPC/PS3/XBOX => Denon AVC-A1XVA => Moome HDMI->DVI => DVX-8022 => Moome input card w/ gamma.

For HTPC sources I am using 1050p72. Smooth as silk. The only thing I miss is a frame-rate doubling technology that works in a PC; like Trimension but HD - I don't think this exists yet.

For PS3 I am running 1080p60. I am running 720p off the XBOX.

I got a little Panny AE2000 for 16/9 browsing and gaming; but I think I will still use the CRTs for gaming for two reasons:

- three-dimensionality of the image in dark areas. There are many "dark" games or levels.

- As much as the PS3/XBOX360 are touted "1080p" most games are sub-720p and jaggies and the like are much more pronounced when playing in the digital PJ than in the CRTs.

Regards - Andres

Andres,
What are you running for the output of the 8022?? 1400 x 1050?? 60 or 72hz?? Do you switch the refresh rate of the 8022 depending on material being film or video.

Looks like you are coming along nicely.

Terry

I have the DVX-8022 refresh rate to "Follow input #1" which is the DVI input. I have my HTPC setup at 1050p72 and the DVX outputs 1400x1050 to both PJs.

The HTPC is always running 72 Hz and I use it as my main video-source. In that configuration each Marquee is seeing 1400x1050 @ 72 Hz. When I run the PS3, the PS3 is running 1080p60 and the Marquees see 1400x1050 @ 60 Hz.

The lack of arbitrary output resolutions in the DVX is a pita, because 1050p is clearly a compromise:

- For 2.35:1 is an overkill as it would be best to have the PJs at 1066x800 @ 96 Hz (800 lines, since anamorphic movies in HD only have 800 lines of info)

- For 16/9 you incur in horizontal scaling (1080->1050). Not really a big deal, but the closer you get to no scaling, the better...

I have the DVX-8022 refresh rate to "Follow input #1" which is the DVI input. I have my HTPC setup at 1050p72 and the DVX outputs 1400x1050 to both PJs.

The HTPC is always running 72 Hz and I use it as my main video-source. In that configuration each Marquee is seeing 1400x1050 @ 72 Hz. When I run the PS3, the PS3 is running 1080p60 and the Marquees see 1400x1050 @ 60 Hz.

The lack of arbitrary output resolutions in the DVX is a pita, because 1050p is clearly a compromise:

- For 2.35:1 is an overkill as it would be best to have the PJs at 1066x800 @ 96 Hz (800 lines, since anamorphic movies in HD only have 800 lines of info)

- For 16/9 you incur in horizontal scaling (1080->1050). Not really a big deal, but the closer you get to no scaling, the better...

Big dog, how come your not running 24hz on the PS3 for BD?

Cliffy

I use the HTPC to watch movies, even BRs and HD-DVDs. I could use the PS3 in 24 Hz mode and have the DVX refresh the PJs at 72 Hz; but:

1) I want to use a single device as my movie-playback device. I've only managed to get pretty much out of everything using the HTPC. I have a lot of HD-DVDs too, and at this point I prefer to use the PC.

2) As much as I like the PS3 XMB and I don't like the PC UI (or lack thereof), the PS3 crashes like crazy with many 1080i60 OTA movies I have. I have a big big (>10 Tbytes HD space) media server which I run as a uPnP server. I could probably fix it by having a smart DNLA uPnP server with on the fly transcoding, but I'm not there yet.

3) PQ-wise and being picky I am forced to 1080p or 720p with the PS3; so for 2.35:1 movies the vertical scaling would happen inside the DVX, which I want to avoid. If I run the HTPC at 1050 lines, the HTPC media player scales much better than the DVX.

I have to say that if (when?) I manage to solve 2) and transcode everything so that the PS3 can see it I would probably do re-evaluate...

...but right now I need to get the whole rig running... :)

That's right! You said "My goal is to have it *finished* by Christmas."

Time is running out, Santa... :)

I have the DVX-8022 refresh rate to "Follow input #1" which is the DVI input. I have my HTPC setup at 1050p72 and the DVX outputs 1400x1050 to both PJs.

The HTPC is always running 72 Hz and I use it as my main video-source. In that configuration each Marquee is seeing 1400x1050 @ 72 Hz. When I run the PS3, the PS3 is running 1080p60 and the Marquees see 1400x1050 @ 60 Hz.


When the 8022 switches from 60 to 72hz and visa versa via follow input 1, doesn't your covering, HSize and HPosition change on the 8022 requiring you to manually change these??

Terry