Just in case that you did not know it already JVC has been to a Texas Pacific Group, a U.S venture capital company, for the knock down price of $680 million, which analysts say is cheap for a global brand. Matsushita Electric was the parent company of both JVC and Panasonic.

http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Digital_Photography/Industry/V5F4G2L8

What does that mean in terms of future product development and warranty support? It is anybody's guess if JVC will continue with the current products that it has it mix. I am quite sure each model being produced is being evaluated for profit margins and if it is worth is any more R&D funds to make it better. The new owners will definitely look at how to get return back on their investment as soon as possible. :confused:

Pretty old news... not that it makes it any less impactful... but old none the less.

Whatever one says here will piss off US JVC employees and those who have just purchased the current holy grail of bulb projectors, the DLA RS1. But, the company that purchased JVC has generally not be interested in fixing a company and running it. My guess is they figure the technology owned by JVC and structural parts of JVC are worth a lot more separately than as a whole. They probably figure they can bust it up and sell off the pieces for a lot more than they paid. That is their track history. If they try to better manage and run it, I doubt that it would be consistent with their investor wishes. Operational returns in today's highly competitive age for consumer electronics would likely be negative or only slightly positive. The goal of this investor group. I suspect, is a quick big return through a bust it up sale.

They probably figure they can bust it up and sell off the pieces for a lot more than they paid. That is their track history. If they try to better manage and run it, I doubt that it would be consistent with their investor wishes. Operational returns in today's highly competitive age for consumer electronics would likely be negative or only slightly positive. The goal of this investor group. I suspect, is a quick big return through a bust it up sale.

It is raises interesting questions, especially since the selling price was so low and why Matsushita Electric could not make it profitable. However JVC professional video products have a lot of respect in that market. Hopefully the new owners recognize the value of the professional video unit and keeps pumping R&D dollars to make the RS-1 better and more affordable. I am wondering if JVC can actually make money on a projector that at its price equal or better anything else that cost under $20k. I bet the new owners are trying to figure that out also. Hopefully the sale of JVC will be transparent to consumers.

The 680m is for only 52% of the company.

The other 48% is owned by banks and private investors.



http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=48103

Ben

The company is bleeding dollars. Electronics manufacture has been extremely competitive and not very profitable. Other manufacturers will quickly catch up in the chip light engine department. This sector, particularly, the FP portion of it, is not a cash cow. There are far far better places to invest dollars. Its not like even flipping a house. usually you fix it up to flip it. Here, I would think it will be sell it off in pieces quickly.This might take 18 months or so.

Who are candidates to buy JVC's D-ILA division? Runco? Samsung? Sony? Meredian? ... ? Whoever, my guess is that they would like the deal to be completed by the next CEDIA or CES at the latest.

Who are candidates to buy JVC's D-ILA division? Runco? Samsung? Sony? Meredian? ... ? Whoever, my guess is that they would like the deal to be completed by the next CEDIA or CES at the latest.

Who knows!!! JVC stock price fell after the split from Matsushita Electric. Mansuthiu could have keep the technolpgy rights to the RS-1 so that the new buyer could not compete directly with Panasonic. What is interesting what happens to warranty repair if the Texas venture capitalist decide to sell of pieces. I bet the all the major buyers had a chance to buy JVC but whatever Matsushita Electric put on the table was not palatable; could it be that all the technology did go not with JVC, especially R&D which may have stayed with the parent company.

Hmmm, what does this mean for folks like me who may have to wait until the next gen JVC to buy?

Nothing. It is highly unlikly that the next new gen holy grail projector will be a JVC anyway. Foreign companies doing business in the US are required by Federal law to maintain parts and service operations for 7 years in this country if they leave the country.

Large corporations have continued to run just fine in the negatives for years and years, nothing new. Look at Sony, the list goes on. Most large corporation's show scary returns. Its the small companies that do not last long in the - .
Regardless what is said here I highly doubt we will notice any negative changes on our end and yes there are still some interesting new products coming from JVC.

yes there are still some interesting new products coming from JVC.
Has the Easter Bunny brought you some news and would you care to share it with the rest of us? ;)

Large corporations have continued to run just fine in the negatives for years and years, nothing new. Look at Sony, the list goes on. Most large corporation's show scary returns. Its the small companies that do not last long in the - .
Regardless what is said here I highly doubt we will notice any negative changes on our end and yes there are still some interesting new products coming from JVC.

None after they were sold to VC capital company.

None after they were sold to VC capital company.

Any big players in our industry this has happened to?

There are a lot of up and coming display companies without names, and new players who are not known for consumer or professional display equipment. I can certainly see the brand being sold to an established player or to one of the new Korean / Taiwanese / Chinese companies looking to establish their name and benefit from proprietary IP that's at the current leading edge.

It would be somewhat surprising to me if the IP was sold without the name and JVC as a brand was ended - seems wasteful.

One of the linked articles from the original thread made it sound like the MO of the buyer is to fix what they bought into viable, profitable entities before selling, in which case one could expect the pj division (if it is/becomes profitable) would remain intact.

The problem is rapidly falling projector prices. Would you want to invest say $60 million in a projector company? A lot safer ways to mke a lot more money. better to license something.

Mark

JVC like Sony, Im betting projectors are responsible for a small overall % of what they do.
Sony is large in both the pro and consumer side where JVCs pro side may be larger then their consumer devision but that seamed to be expanding as well.

There is one small detail I would like to mention. The sale hasn't actually happened yet.

There is one small detail I would like to mention. The sale hasn't actually happened yet.
A minor detail when the sky is falling ;).

It seems to me that predicting what is going to happen here is akin to trying to bet on the horses. The odds aren't good you'll predict right. It also seems to me that concerns about warranty are completely and totally unwarranted.

Without insight into financials that none of us have access it's difficult to have a clue about this. We don't even know what divisions and/or products are profitable and which are money losers. How can we possibly start to theorize in any meaningful way without that info?

I do think I can predict that it's unlikely that the PJ company will be sold off to a smaller company. A company like Runco or Meridian does not begin to have the means to engage in production at this level.

I am surprised Intel did not jump on this. It would have been IMHO (as a consumer armchair quarterback) a great purchase for them and given them a strong consumer brand to attach their name to. They wanted to get into LCOS a few years back and canned the plans.

It also seems to me that concerns about warranty are completely and totally unwarranted.

Indeed they are. But I don't suppose it will stop the speculation.

Gee, I don't know man, like, I think all of our asses who were suckered into buying the RS1 need to try and sell them ASAP (for pennies on the dollar obviously)! The jig is UP! :eek:

:rolleyes:

The problem is rapidly falling projector prices. Would you want to invest say $60 million in a projector company? A lot safer ways to mke a lot more money. better to license something.



All falling projector prices mean is that the margins per unit will be smaller and that, in theory, more units will be sold as they become within the financial reach of more people and more people are apt to upgrade as the cost for replacing is also less.

Manufacturers and dealers are going to have to work harder as their nuts will have to be made more on volume, rather than a unit at a time.

If they keep producing products like the RS1, they should be ok. I think if the RS1 was put together to maximize more of its capabilities, like with vertical stretch and CMS, that it will keep selling til the next breakthrough product comes out .. and at its pricepoint it might still keep selling then.

"They probably figure they can bust it up and sell off the pieces for a lot more than they paid. That is their track history."

From the movie Wall Street: "Why did you have to bust it up?". Answer: "Because I can!"
Capitalism is great, but is often at odds with the consumer.

Manufacturers and dealers are going to have to work harder as their nuts will have to be made more on volume, rather than a unit at a time.
My nuts have adequate volume and I don't need to sell more projectors to keep them that way.

If they keep producing products like the RS1, they should be ok.
The RS1 is a speck of sand of the beach on their balance sheet.

As far as your comment that dealers/manufacturers will need to start working on slimmer margins and higher volume - you serious? I believe they day arrived quite some time ago. It's why Circuit City is in trouble and even Best Buy is not as profitable as they want to be. Because margins have gotten so slim. The margins on projectors are not quite as slim as on plasmas - but they are slim, ESPECIALLY on the $1000 - $3000 end which is where the vast majority of sales are.

Quote:Originally Posted by QQQ It also seems to me that concerns about warranty are completely and totally unwarranted. Indeed they are. But I don't suppose it will stop the speculation.

Ah yes I agree, but those waiting for the FW upgrade and the, dare I say it, RS2, may be for a long wait, if anything at all shows up.

Likely all R&D is on hold until the dust settles...

Cheers

Philippe

Ah yes I agree, but those waiting for the FW upgrade and the, dare I say it, RS2, may be for a long wait, if anything at all shows up.

Likely all R&D is on hold until the dust settles...
So you think that the company stops operating and planning new models just because they are under discussions to be purchased?

So you think that the company stops operating and planning new models just because they are under discussions to be purchased?

Not neccessarily, but you have to consider who is buying the company. In this case, it looks like the current takeover may piece-meal JVC assets. In that case, I would suspect R&D to be put on hold until things shake out.

The 680m is for only 52% of the company.

The other 48% is owned by banks and private investors.



http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=48103

Ben

Majority owner makes the decisions.

My nuts have adequate volume and I don't need to sell more projectors to keep them that way.

TMI, dude, TMI!!

I'm sorry Rob, I just took offense at his suggestion that I needed to sell more projectors to increase my nut volume.

Nothing. It is highly unlikly that the next new gen holy grail projector will be a JVC anyway. Foreign companies doing business in the US are required by Federal law to maintain parts and service operations for 7 years in this country if they leave the country.

That's one area that it appears either the law has been changed or lots are getting away with not adhering to it. No, I haven't looked into it closely, but I do know there are LOTS of parts not available for electronics, that is no where near 7 years old.

That includes some large companies, not just odd names nobody really knows over here in the USA. I heard somewhere the law had been modified but I don't know in what way. It probably depends on what scale it is and how many it affects. I know Dell is in some kind of Class action lawsuit now over not having parts for their Plasma tv's they use to sell.

But no doubt there are lots of parts not available, I know that for a fact.

The RS1 is a speck of sand of the beach on their balance sheet.

As far as your comment that dealers/manufacturers will need to start working on slimmer margins and higher volume - you serious? I believe they day arrived quite some time ago. It's why Circuit City is in trouble and even Best Buy is not as profitable as they want to be. Because margins have gotten so slim. The margins on projectors are not quite as slim as on plasmas - but they are slim, ESPECIALLY on the $1000 - $3000 end which is where the vast majority of sales are.

Here comes TripleQ.

Obviously the RS1 is a speck of sand. Noone said otherwise. It is a very hot product though, specially for price/performance.

We are talking about projectors here, not plasmas and LCDs.

I am just saying its not so bad for guys like you (specialty retailers/installers - not best buys and circuit cities) who are used to making four figures off of folks when selling single units, on products like the Qualia, as now you should, in theory anyways, be selling even more units.

As I read that statement again, perhaps I should have used "moreso" or "even more" in there as it seems some can construe, or choose to construe, it as if I mean that sentence only in the extremes - going from making all their money on high dollar units to now making it only on volume, as to some extent thats (having to make some $ on volume) been happening even with specialty retailers/installers.

I think it should be obvious what I am trying to say, but who knows.

The low end stuff you have been able to buy anywhere; on the internet, best buy, frys, etc , but what is happening now is that the high end opportunities will shrink substantially. Like PapaSloth stated on another thread, we can afford more, but most of us will take even 95% of the performance of the top of the line model if it cuts the price in half, or 75%.

In my opinion the RS1 is even better than a lot of that stuff that is priced above it, while I paid more for my Sharp 12k and for my Sony Ruby then I paid for my HD1 a couple of years ago I was tempted to pay $ for the Qualia or the Fujitsu. I wont need to pay more than what I paid for my HD1, now, though. I bet a lot of other folks wont, either. 8)

Your nut size is probably inversely related to your penis size. 8)

Little men always seem to have chips on their shoulders.

Nothing. It is highly unlikly that the next new gen holy grail projector will be a JVC anyway. Foreign companies doing business in the US are required by Federal law to maintain parts and service operations for 7 years in this country if they leave the country.
I guess the extended warranty companies must be suing Sony right now. One just paid me almost $2200 on a 44 month old Sony rear projector because they could not locate a blue tube. :confused:

Here comes TripleQ.

Obviously the RS1 is a speck of sand. Noone said otherwise. It is a very hot product though, specially for price/performance.

We are talking about projectors here, not plasmas and LCDs.

I am just saying its not so bad for guys like you (specialty retailers/installers - not best buys and circuit cities) who are used to making four figures off of folks when selling single units, on products like the Qualia, as now you should, in theory anyways, be selling even more units.

As I read that statement again, perhaps I should have used "moreso" or "even more" in there as it seems some can construe, or choose to construe, it as if I mean that sentence only in the extremes - going from making all their money on high dollar units to now making it only on volume, as to some extent thats (having to make some $ on volume) been happening even with specialty retailers/installers.

I think it should be obvious what I am trying to say, but who knows.

The low end stuff you have been able to buy anywhere; on the internet, best buy, frys, etc , but what is happening now is that the high end opportunities will shrink substantially. Like PapaSloth stated on another thread, we can afford more, but most of us will take even 95% of the performance of the top of the line model if it cuts the price in half, or 75%.

In my opinion the RS1 is even better than a lot of that stuff that is priced above it, while I paid more for my Sharp 12k and for my Sony Ruby then I paid for my HD1 a couple of years ago I was tempted to pay $ for the Qualia or the Fujitsu. I wont need to pay more than what I paid for my HD1, now, though. I bet a lot of other folks wont, either. 8)
I pretty much agree. I'm not sure the high-end in video projectors is going to "evaporate" quite as much as the current market would make it appear, but otherwise I agree. What I mean is that I think there's still a damn good market out there for let's say 10K+ projectors, the only thing that has changed as I see it is that the dynamics have changed due to the performance gains of the RS1. In other words, the issue right now is that most of the PJ's for 10K - 20K offer negligible gains over the RS1, if any. So NOW the higher end market, at least with AVS type consumers, is being hit hard.

BUT, if TI responds (as they should) with some really great 1920 x 1080 3-chip DLP units, or if JVC brings out a "big brother" to the RS1 with high lumens and a great lens, I think the market for high-end is still alive and well.

The question is if at some point we will reach the point that audio has reach, where a $500 CD player sounds pretty much identical to a $5000 CD player (of course audiophiles are howling in their boots at that statement). Because IF we reach that point, the market for high-end projectors will be less and less. The PJ market will not support questionable claims in the same wat that the audiophile market will support claims that a 5K CD player is better than $500 one.

BUT, I don't think we are close to that point yet. With LED, OLED, laser etc. I think we will continue to see svereal years of innovation keeping high-end projection alive and well (i.e. it will not be reduced to all 1L PJ's).

Any big players in our industry this has happened to?

Exactly what industry are you talking at about? JVC is much more that a home video productor company. Have there been a major players that have been sold to private equity company, none that comes into mind. What do you think private equity companies do. JVC to be competitive has to put on more than one projector. Thnik RCA, GE, Fisher, Sansusi, Westinghouse, Curtis Mathis, should I go on?

Exactly what industry are you talking at about? JVC is much more that a home video productor company. Have there been a major players that have been sold to private equity company, none that comes into mind. What do you think private equity companies do. JVC to be competitive has to put on more than one projector. Thnik RCA, GE, Fisher, Sansusi, Westinghouse, Curtis Mathis, should I go on?

I was asking if what you said "could" happen has happened to any of the big players in our industry. Lets take the ones you just listed.

Don't worry Cinetron will come to the rescue and buy JVC.

IThe question is if at some point we will reach the point that audio has reach, where a $500 CD player sounds pretty much identical to a $5000 CD player (of course audiophiles are howling in their boots at that statement).
Likely for you that is true. Points your opinions in perspective for me.

Likely for you that is true. Points your opinions in perspective for me.
You remind me less of a bulldog and more of a little chihuahua waiting to snap at someones leg when you get a chance. But you don't have the smarts to know who to snap at and you pick the wrong person and get kicked across the room. Having a poor dog memory a few months later you forget who kicked you across the room and snap at the same person again...and get kicked across the room again.

Now go find someones leg to hump.

QQQ. The moderator should delete you and your post.

As as been pointed out many times Mark, the name of this forum is AV Science, not A/V voodoo. You and Bulldogger have free reign in the tweaks forum to talk about $1000 cables, spraying cables with anti-static spray to make them sound better, how the sound is less veiled and warmer with a $10,000 CD player and all the other things you believe (in fairness to Bulldogger I don't know if he sprays his cables, I read that gem from you :)). And there you're free to suggest I'm deaf if I say otherwise, as Bulldogger suggested above. But in this forum you are going to get called on it.

p.s. and my response is based on previous exchanges with bulldogger, not this one alone. His post served no purpose but to take a potshot and was not remotely relevant to this thread, hence the response.

well i hope the techology D-ILA isnt lost after the sale. as far as i know, JVC guys are confident about the future now with fresh American money. JVC could end up being a real American corporation, who knows....
The official reason is the poor sales of RPTV in the US. but JVC has been losing a bit of money for several years (not alot but still).
$680M for a company selling about $6.5B / year.

The RS1 HD1 indeed hit hard machines priced up to $25K. Before that time the C3X sold very well though.

the big brother will arrive, perhaps this year. but it likely will be a big brother, more aiming the $25-50K market.

JVC would be wise to do this:
RS1 HD1 (done)
RS2 HD2 with 2000ansi (for those big screens or screen research screens :D ), 10.000:1 native (imagine !) price: $9999 (basicly $3000 extra for the brigthness)
usage: screen research screens, 4meters screens. white living rooms
RS4 HD4 4000ansi 4K (euh euh the scaler job....) 10.000:1 ( miracle)
'(because JVC nrs are mostly confirmed btw...) usage: professional and LARGE HT screens (4-7meters). price :?
Now what about the $3-4 market ?.....


plasma market belongs to Samsung LG Panasonic now (Pana which hits hard Pioneer share).
lcd TV market belongs to Sony Philips Sharp
JVC main business probably remains the pro market. They could develop a market though with this breakthrough business made by the RS1/HD1 and their future brothers.

people underestimate the hit they are making at Sony Sharp Marantz SIM2 even Optoma H81 shares. lots of units sold second hand, overinventories slashed in prices.

still a "small" market though.

Large corporations have continued to run just fine in the negatives for years and years, nothing new. Look at Sony, the list goes on. Most large corporation's show scary returns. Its the small companies that do not last long in the - .
Regardless what is said here I highly doubt we will notice any negative changes on our end and yes there are still some interesting new products coming from JVC.

very true

as for recent bought out companies:
KLIPSCH bought JAMO, JAMO resurrects now (new lines of speakers)
CANON bought CABASSE (no idea where this will go)
DUNLAVY died
TAG MACLAREN died

other examples ?

I am surprised Intel did not jump on this. It would have been IMHO (as a consumer armchair quarterback) a great purchase for them and given them a strong consumer brand to attach their name to. They wanted to get into LCOS a few years back and canned the plans.

very true, i remember. then nothing really happened.

the name JVC is worldwide known, this won't vanish. sure there will people fired,
some product lines abandonned etc. but it won't disappear at all imho.

very true

as for recent bought out companies:
KLIPSCH bought JAMO, JAMO resurrects now (new lines of speakers)
CANON bought CABASSE (no idea where this will go)
DUNLAVY died
TAG MACLAREN died

other examples ?

Of that list I do not consider any of them any where near the size of JVC or Sony.

agree. JVC does annually $6B+ in sales

i wonder about the fact they resell to MERIDIAN/FAROUDJA, BARCO CINEVERSUM/DREAMVISION their projectors...

IMHO,It's very unlikely that JVC is going away anytime soon. It carries a world known brand established since 1927. The name itself carries some serious intrinsic value to investors.

Matsushita has been the majority owner of JVC since 1953 and sold it's stake last month to TPG, a private investment equity firm.

Some history on JVC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JVC)

Some history on Texas Pacific Group (TPG) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Pacific_Group)

TPG isn't simply going to dump the JVC name and sell off all it's technologies because that wouldn't maximize profits and to TPG, it's all about profits.

Some companies TPG has previously taken over that are still around today;

Del Monte
Seagate Technologies
J. Crew
Burger King
Ducati Motorcycles
Continental Airlines


There's lots of possibilities as to what might happen to JVC in the short and long term. No one knows for sure, not even TPG yet. It's more likely that TPG will examine JVC's individual parts and financially separate it into say 3 divisions, JVC Industrial, JVC Professional and JVC Home Consumer. Perhaps sell some of JVC's technologies to other companies along the way(subdivisions that are not profitable or synergistic) to leverage their investment and then even perhaps spin off or IPO a new streamlined division like JVC Pro or JVC Home to leverage the brand further and dilute their investment and increase roi. Eventually they'll get all their money back out with profit and still hold a stake in these divisions until the right buyer(s) come along. Ultimately they'll sell out their remaining stakes at the right time and cash in their chips so to speak. But again it's extremely unlikely that the JVC brand is going away.

Joe

very interesting Joe ! very. good DD for sure.