In a debate with "paidgeek" from Sony Pictures, he suggested a poll be started so that he could gain feedback on the use of seamless branching to present the theatrical cut along with the extended/alternate or director's cut version of the movies on their BD releases.

Here's the scope of the argument:

While I guess nobody is against an Extended Cut per se, the omission of the theatrical cut is a real bummer or deal breaker for many enthusiasts.

Contrary to uncut or unrated versions where a few seconds or minutes get trimmed basically due to MPAA issues. The extended versions are usually not the director's cut of the movie. The scenes were usually cut for a (good) reason: probably pacing or introducing unnecessary subplots and/or characters. Just like maintaining the integrity of the movie with the inclusion of the original soundtrack, presenting the original cut is equally important.

FOX seems to be the only studio consistently granting their consumers with both versions of the movie, the extended and theatrical cut, via seamless branching on DVD, including some of their big guns like: Independence Day, the Alien franchise (AVP, Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection), The Abyss, Fantastic 4, Hide And Seek. And they're started it for BDs as well, with AVP.

From Sony Pictures, on the other hand, the inclusion of different versions of the movie via seamless branching on DVD is not an usual practice. From the top of mind, I can only think of Identity and The Forgotten (arguably, they are not really big tittles). But Sony has been constantly issuing extended versions of their movies on DVD without the TC included.

Identity has just been released on BD without the alternate ending (not even as a separate extra from what I know) and we now get the announcement for Donnie Brasco and Revenge with extended cuts only for BD.

This should be a major drawback for many fans of these movies. While on the other hand, the inclusion of both cuts via seamless branching would probably turn it into a major selling point. For catalog titles like Revenge, I believe this could really boost demand or interest for the BD version.

Furthermore, the BD release of xXx and A Knight's Tale presents their respective theatrical cuts, which is great. But considering there's an extended cut of both these movies available on DVD, they could have been presented together on BD via seamless branching.

So I ask the members here at AVS to take the time and cast your vote. We have been heard before and this constitute a very important issue for movie lovers (and buyers) ;)

Here is paidgeek's say on the matter:

We regularly use seamless branching for main and end credits, but we have not used it to provide alternate versions of a title to date. This is being considered for at least one major title to be released later this year, but doing it is not trivial and we don't get many requests for it. If you would like to conduct a poll and we find the results show strong support this sort of thing, I will bring it up with our marketing department.

I hope this major release is Spiderman 2, now that Spiderman 2.5 has been announced for DVD. :)

I close here with my Kudos to Sony and Paidgeek for their continuous support and interest in our opinions here at AVS.

Where's the poll?

I'd love to have both/all versions on a single disc

I have never seen any of the SD DVDs with this feature.

However, it strikes me that this could be a really, really huge amount of work for the people responsible for putting these things out, and therefore a cost that would need to be borne somewhere.

This is not a feature that to me seems at all worth the trouble.

The new LOTR DVD's use this effectively for theatrical and EE on the same disc. Seemless branching is old technology why the next gen discs don't use this for deleted scenes or extra's I have no idea.

We should be able to make our own Directors cut via seemless branching choices. Like a check mark for specific cut scenes to play at the correct time or even to delete scenes we don't want. If BLU-RAy require peristent storage this would be cool to edit the movie how you want ti and save it as a bookmark.

This should not be that difficult and would be very interesting.

I have never seen any of the SD DVDs with this feature.

However, it strikes me that this could be a really, really huge amount of work for the people responsible for putting these things out, and therefore a cost that would need to be borne somewhere.

This is not a feature that to me seems at all worth the trouble.

I have at least a couple dozen DVDs with this feature (possibly more), so my guess is that the amount of work wouldn't be that much more for Blu-Ray...

~Alan

I would of course prefer the option of the theatrical cut in case I prefer it to the DC. Donnie Darko and The Butterfly Effect come to mind.

I almost always prefer alternate/directors/extended cuts... but not always (Superman II immediately comes to mind where I prefer the theatrical).

Seamless branching is always something I hoped would take off after T2: Ultimate and has very rarely it seems.

The new LOTR DVD's use this effectively for theatrical and EE on the same disc. Seemless branching is old technology why the next gen discs don't use this for deleted scenes or extra's I have no idea.

We should be able to make our own Directors cut via seemless branching choices. Like a check mark for specific cut scenes to play at the correct time or even to delete scenes we don't want. If BLU-RAy require peristent storage this would be cool to edit the movie how you want ti and save it as a bookmark.

This should not be that difficult and would be very interesting.
I've always thought that would be cool. I remember doing this with Disturbing Behavior. I edited in some of the deleted scenes but took some out of the theatrical edition too. This film really needs a good DC. It looked like a junky teen slasher, but it was actually a superbly acted thriller about classism. It was the first starring roles for James Marsden, Nick Stahl and I believe it was Katie Holmes first film as well.

I almost always prefer alternate/directors/extended cuts... but not always (Superman II immediately comes to mind where I prefer the theatrical).

Seamless branching is always something I hoped would take off after T2: Ultimate and has very rarely it seems.
An excellent example. Boy would I like to pick and choose the scenes for that one!

I have at least a couple dozen DVDs with this feature (possibly more), so my guess is that the amount of work wouldn't be that much more for Blu-Ray...

~Alan

If I was wrong about the amount of work involved then I would certainly change my mind. However, I still don't think I would ever again want to watch the theatrical versions of the LOTR movies rather than the EEs.

If I was wrong about the amount of work involved then I would certainly change my mind. However, I still don't think I would ever again want to watch the theatrical versions of the LOTR movies rather than the EEs.

Most of here on this board are collectors, and we want to have both.

However, I agree with you on LOTR, but I would want both copies on those as well.

~Alan

I've always thought that would be cool. I remember doing this with Disturbing Behavior. I edited in some of the deleted scenes but took some out of the theatrical edition too. This film really needs a good DC. It looked like a junky teen slasher, but it was actually a superbly acted thriller about classism. It was the first starring roles for James Marsden, Nick Stahl and I believe it was Katie Holmes first film as well.

On "Disturbing Behavior," I remember a line in the movie about chipmunks, but I didn't understand what they meant by it until I later watched the deleted scenes featuring a scene that would later explain the chipmunk remark.

Probably one of the FEW deleted scenes I've watched to actually add something to the movie...

~Alan

Why? I'll most likely never see the original theatricals again... Even whe it was on TNTHD, I ended up putting in the EE DVDs to finish up some scenes.

Why? I'll most likely never see the original theatricals again... Even whe it was on TNTHD, I ended up putting in the EE DVDs to finish up some scenes.

I'll most likely never see the originals again either, but with a movie like LOTR, I would want both the film-maker's versions.

Just think how many people would LOVE to have the original theatrical editions of the original "Star Wars" trilogy...

~Alan

Thanx to Sony and Paidgeek for considering the views of AVS members.
Going above and beyond the call of duty. :cool:

The use of seamless branching on a 50 gb disk is one of the reasons that got me excited about BD to begin with.
I can understand that studios were faced with a DVD format that didn't allow more storage. Hence, all of the various "editions."
Most of us would agree that Extended, DC, etc. editions are often not much of an improvement over the TC. There are exceptions, of course. However, most double-dipping turned out be a bit disappointing.

Usually, the reason why footage is cut from the TC is because it doesn't work in the overall context of the movie.
Books are edited for the same reasons movies are edited. ;)
Editing is usually a good thing.

Nevertheless, the various cuts are interesting to most of us Film-Freaks.
And should be included in any BD release.
After all, there is 50 gb to play with. :)

A few $ extra added to the price of a release is not too much to bear IMO.

Seamless branching is a great feature and choice is a great thing when it comes to movies.

I acquired the PS3 BD of Ricky Bobby (as well as the unrated cut) because I liked scenes in the cinema that seemed to be missing from the new cut.

Having access to both cuts on the same disc would have been a better option for sure.

An excellent example. Boy would I like to pick and choose the scenes for that one!

I agree... A feature (perhaps via BD-J) which would allow the choosing (checkboxes?) of which alternate scenes to include via seamless branching would be most welcome. There are many times where I quite enjoy certain extended or alternate sequences but still others which make me gag during the same movie.

Dear Paidgeek:

Please make sure that if any title has two or more cuts (theatrical/director's/unrated...etc.), it will all be included on the same disc via seamless branching. Doing so makes perfect sense, as you would avoid having more than one encode or more than one SKU for the same release :) .

This would also appease most of the collectors and enthusiasts who want every version of their favorite movie available.

Thank you so much for your consideration of AVS members' opinions :) .

Just think how many people would LOVE to have the original theatrical editions of the original "Star Wars" trilogy...


Yeah, I suppose. I'll never agree with them, though. I find the strings on the TIE Fighters and "yub yub" song hurt my suspension my disbelief much more than Greedo shooting first or the musical in Jabba's palace. ;)

Ah, seemless branching... where art thou?!

Yeah, I suppose. I'll never agree with them, though. I find the strings on the TIE Fighters and "yub yub" song hurt my suspension my disbelief much more than Greedo shooting first or the musical in Jabba's palace. ;)

Ah, seemless branching... where art thou?!

Be careful, you probably just offended a lot of people! ;)

I agree with you though... personally, I would probably watch the originals again (once) since I haven't seen them in years, BUT I'd probably only watch the newer ones. I would still love to have them though for posterity...

Although, I'd personally prefer a two-disc set to allow for the best possible quality, but for some films where you only get a few minutes extra that can be spliced in via seamless branching (it would have been nice to have Sony's upcoming GR Blu-Ray release have both versions via seamless branching for instance).

~Alan

The Theatrical cut must always be available. It won't hurt the crowd that prefer the extended version either. I love Leon, really love it and bought the extended cut (version intergrale) when it was released. Oh dear! I thought it ruined the film, I could see straight away why they cut those scenes. I skipped the original release to get it and found myself wanting to trade it for the original version. Having the theatrical cut on the disc would avoid this

I have never seen any of the SD DVDs with this feature.
...
This is not a feature that to me seems at all worth the trouble.

Patrick,

as others have said, It's a fairly common feature on DVD, but maybe not on a way most would realize: for example, Disney uses it for most, if not all, their animated titles in overseas markets. Displaying titles and credits on a foreign language tracks to accompany the dub tracks.

Using it to present an extended or alternate version of a movie is probably not all that hard, and not too uncommon. As I've mentioned, a lot of FOX titles have it, including the recently announced Fantastic Four 2.5 (or whatever they're calling it)

And this is nothing new, the Terminator 2: Ultimate Edition DVD from Artisan back in 2001 features no less than THREE different versions/cuts of the movie

Sony has used it on The Forgotten and Identity. Since these are not really big titles, you can see that should probably viable. And like paidgeek said, they probably used many times for titles and credits too.

The new LOTR DVDs from New Line have the two versions with seamless branching

Sometimes I may prefer the extended edition, but in most cases I don't. I'm sure there's people who think just the opposite of that, but what puzzles me, is why any collector wouldn't want the two (or three) of them to be presented together on one disc. :confused:



camaj and oink, hassoon and camaj

I completely agree with you guys ;)

paidgeek:

Seamless branching should be used any time there's an "extended cut" included so the theatrical cut can also be included. It's nice to be able to compare the differences if one wants without having to buy two copies.

This is a feature I would like to have. There are a number of different DVDs where I first purchased the theatrical release, and later bought the extended version of the title.

For some movies, I prefer the theatrical release; for others, I prefer the extended cut. If I already own the theatrical release, but not the extended edition, having both on one disk would certainly be an incentive to replace my DVD with the Blu-ray release. I would be less likely to replace the theatrical release on DVD with the Blu-ray version if it only has the extended cut.

I voted for both, but I don't really mind how the other cut is presented. Sometimes seamless branching won't work due to the massive differences between versions (like Star Wars). That new version of Payback even changes the color palette, so of course it couldn't be done with seamless branching.

So, I would want the option to choose from both cuts, regardless of whether it's through seamless branching, an extra disc, or even a separate edition.

That new version of Payback even changes the color palette, so of course it couldn't be done with seamless branching.

It's true, but that's the exception, rather than the rule. So for all the other cases, there's seamless branching ;) :D

There's no reason why it wouldn't work with Star Wars, although they'd probably have to leave some of the minor alterations in. Now real-time compositing would be a nice feature for Blu-ray

This would be an outstanding feature to have... let's use that 50 GB of storage for something interesting! I'll take both versions of a film any day over some silly EPK about craft services.

For a movie like Donnie Brasco give me seamless branching. For LOTR give me the separate editions.

I don't care much for extras on a disc, but am more concerned with the movie itself. Seamless branching is a HUGE selling point for me. So much so that I would even pay a bit extra to have both versions of films that I like on one disc. I will often look at a release that's coming and think that there's an extended version of that film that I like and not buy it while waiting for the extended cut. Or vice versa, not buy an extended version of a film where I like the theatrical cut (I've never owned "Blade Runner" on DVD due to my dislike of the DC version). But even when I have a clear preference for one version or another I would pay a little more to get both (or all versions of a film) and seamless branching is the best way to do it.

So, bottom line, if you can only have one extra feature on a disc of a film that has more than one version it should be to have all versions of the film via seamless branching.

Thanks for caring about what we think and considering the feedback of the people on this forum.

I'm fine with either the extended cut of a film or both with seamless branching. What I really hope I won't see often are releases with only the theatrical cut when a director's cut exists. That just smells of double dipping in the not too distant future.

The Descend have it, you can choose Unrated or Rated in the main menu. Altought the difference is about 1min30sec.. it still there..

I picked
The theatrical cut must be presented via seamless branching with the extended/alternate cut

but a better answer would be
it would be nice to have The theatrical must be presented via seamless branching with the extended/alternate cut.

It is just not the end of the world. Like others that have discussed LOTR I have the EE and that is what I watch. But you never know when you won't have 4h and the TE would be "nice to have"