With the recent revelation on these boards that the Universal HD-DVD release of "Traffic" is actually a 1080p upconversion from a 480i source, it would be assumed that theoretically, this disc should have the worst PQ of any HD-DVD release so far, since no other title has yet to be exposed for being a SD upconversion. To make matters worse, it has been said this HD-DVD release looks inferior to even the DVD version of the same title.

However, on the highly-reliable Tier System thread on these boards, "Traffic", while being Tier 4, is not the lowest rated HD-DVD. That distinction belongs to "Full Metal Jacket" ("Traffic" is also rated above "The Dirty Dozen" and "The Fugitive").

So this raises some interesting questions. First off, how does "Full Metal Jacket" look compared to "Traffic"? Is the HD transfer and encoding job really so bad that it looks worse than a 480i source upconversion of an already PQ-challenged movie?

Secondly, is it even possible that professionally encoded 1080p content could look inferior to upconverted 480i source material? Now I understand that there are ways to manipulate encoding settings to purposely make content look bad, so yes, theoretically of course this can be done. But what I'm referring to are real world situations, where these are releases from major studios for sale to the general public, and where bad PQ is not the aim. So taking upon these considerations, can 1080p content really ever look worse than 480i source material?

To me, these are interesting questions with regards to HD vs. SD in general, and also to what extent are the limitations of resolution's influence on PQ.

I would be interested in hearing people's opinions on this, especially Fettastic's, who maintains the excellent aforementioned Tier System thread.

However, on the highly-reliable Tier System thread on these boards, "Traffic", while being Tier 4, is not the lowest rated HD-DVD. That distinction belongs to "Full Metal Jacket" ("Traffic" is also rated above "The Dirty Dozen" and "The Fugitive").

I would be interested in hearing people's opinions on this, especially Fettastic's, who maintains the excellent aforementioned Tier System thread.

that is the first thing you are reading too much into, the Tier thread is discounted by movie lovers all over this forum, it is a bunch of BS

I can say that Full Metal Jacket looks very very good, I have seen it many times including a D-VHS copy I made from HDNet Movies, it looked identical to the HD-DVD, I am very pleased with it as is anyone who knows how the movie is supposed to look

the colors are slightly muted, the grayscale is blue, it is noisy, and has tons of film grain, that is exactly how it is supposed to look, the 1080i master issue with this one is so slight that it is pretty much invisible, not anywhere near as bad as Lethal Weapon 2

I am pleased to own it and has 0 issues :)

-Gary

FMJ looks exceptional on HD-DVD. I don't care what the Tier system says, it doesn't stop me from enjoying these titles in the least.

To be honest, the top Tier movies hardly interest me. Everyone raves about Serenity and I think it's mediocre at best. The PQ is jaw dropping at times, but I can't watch a movie just for the PQ.

Yeah, I rarely ever visit that thread. Looking at it, The Searchers is "Tier 2", but it's still one of the absolute best looking HD DVDs I've seen yet. The Rundown is Tier 2 as well, but I felt the entire transfer is rather soft (filtered?) and most of the time the fleshtones look flat out strange and false. The Dirty Dozen's weaknesses are all due to how the film was handled originally. Still there are many shots throughout the film that exceed my expectations of just how good I thought the film could look.

Though I will say Traffic looks pretty underwhelming. :(

Wow, I wasn't aware of that much dissention on the Tier thread. Well perhaps "Traffic" can be considered to have the worst PQ of any HD-DVD title afterall.

Lol, High Def Digest gave it 4 stars for video.

I can actually remember seeing FMJ in the theater back in high school and it looks like it should. Not every movie needs to look like Discovery HD.

No one's going to mention Spartacus and it's embarrassing transfer from the stone age? Surely that's worst than FMJ and the other 1080i trainwrecks.

No one's going to mention Spartacus and it's embarrassing transfer from the stone age? Surely that's worst than FMJ and the other 1080i trainwrecks.


No HD-DVD title to my awarness is a "trainwreck", they all look and sound outstanding.

No one's going to mention Spartacus and it's embarrassing transfer from the stone age? Surely that's worst than FMJ and the other 1080i trainwrecks.

Robert Harris did the Spartacus restoration, that is the way it is and it looks darn good ;) does it look like Chronicles of Riddick?, no! if it did things would be all wrong

Kya, Traffic is without a doubt the worst release so far on either format, as the screenshot comparison thread confirmed, it is a upconvert

-Gary

We jst watched Traffic the other night and I have to say I agree with Gary. It has to be the worse looking HD DVD title thus far. If I knew it looked like this I would not have purchased it... :eek:

No HD-DVD title to my awarness is a "trainwreck", they all look and sound outstanding.

I guess you haven't seen my thread :)

Robert Harris did the Spartacus restoration, that is the way it is and it looks darn good ;) does it look like Chronicles of Riddick?, no! if it did things would be all wrong

The film restoration probably looks great, on film, but the transfer on the HD-DVD looks like garbage. EE, ugly dithered noise artifacts, just embarrassing. Check out the screenshots in Xylon's thread of HD disasters. :D

Robert Harris did the Spartacus restoration, that is the way it is and it looks darn good


Like hell it does.

does it look like Chronicles of Riddick?, no! if it did things would be all wrong

Wrong analogy. At any rate it should look at least as good as The Searchers.

Thats such a piss off... I had heard this the other day that Traffic was a 480 upconversion job..... ugh... never got around to seeing it on HD DVD yet... seen it on DVD a few times.. this is just.... unacceptable!

I guess you haven't seen my thread :)


Must not of :(


All I know is I have the lowest Tier 4 movie (FMJ), and it still looks excellent.

FMJ looks pretty good, but there are scenes (I noticed specifically the haircut scenes) that seem to have "interlace" jaggies. The HD-DVD still looks excellent, either because you stop noticing it or because it isn't as obvious in other scenes. The HD-DVD also looks good because it is widesceen - I read somewhere on here that this is the first non-fullscreen (i.e. other than 4:3) "home video" release.

From what I have seen of the Traffic screenshots, it is most certainly just an upconverted 480 source, and it should be withdrawn, re-mastered, and re-released.

IMHO, YMMV,

shinksma

FMJ looks pretty good, but there are scenes (I noticed specifically the haircut scenes) that seem to have "interlace" jaggies. The HD-DVD still looks excellent, either because you stop noticing it or because it isn't as obvious in other scenes. The HD-DVD also looks good because it is widesceen - I read somewhere on here that this is the first non-fullscreen (i.e. other than 4:3) "home video" release.

From what I have seen of the Traffic screenshots, it is most certainly just an upconverted 480 source, and it should be withdrawn, re-mastered, and re-released.

IMHO, YMMV,

shinksma

It is the only non 4:3 release of FMJ. It also has a 5.1 mix (but I believe a re-release on DVD has this before, but not a 16:9 (cropped) presentation. I never saw it in theatres, so I defer to those that say that is the way the film originally looked, but it's certainly not showcase material for your new gig to the unintiated. HUGE fan of the film itself though.

Fullmetal Jacket had a 1.85:1 letterboxed laserdisc, but no anamorphic DVD. Pretty much all of Kubrick's movies after 2001 were shot open-matte, so there's nothing "wrong" with the 4:3 versions, it just has extra info you wouldn't have seen in a theater. The only Kubrick film I can think of that looks "off" in 4:3 is Dr. Strangelove, since the last scene of the film is hard-matted to 1.66:1, and it clearly shows off that some stock footage used was in a different ratio than the rest of the film as well.

Honestly, I like FMJ in 4:3. Makes it look a little bit more like news footage you'd have actually seen during the Vietnam era, and with the original mono audio and flat colors I can't help but wonder if that was sort of the point. Either way, I can't wait to see some DVD vs HD DVD/Blu-Ray comparisons on this title after all the complaints that have been leveled against it.