AS is so often the case of late, here on this forum, there is a huge amount of buzz created or surrounding the newest entry into the front projector market place. This buzz is formed long before anyone has used the product so is mostly out of ignorance. We all remember the buzz surrounding the Sony Ruby and now the Pearl. (Both of which I was not and still am not a fan of).

Over time the true nature of these products came to light. Sadly much too late for those who have invested $$$$ in these units. Had this info been known and understood earlier on would they have bought into these units? I bet some would have not.

Where I am going is here....

While the JVC RS-1 outwardly appears to be the best value out there. It in fact has some major warts or issues and some of these are coming to light but need to be addressed and compared to other options that may be better. So often the IDEA of something by it's specs is far greater then the REALITY of it's implementation. This is the case here with the JVC RS1.

If you are the type of person who loves to figure it out for yourself AND are quite knowledgeable, and or don't mind pounding money down a rat hole if you make a bad choice, or you will be upgrading next year anyways, then please don't post here or read any farther. :D

If you are looking for an image that looks good to you and you see no benefit in accurate colors or gray scale or white or black field uniformity and having your projector ISF calibrated is a waste of money. Then please don't post here or read any farther. :D

Finally If you own or think this thread is your invitation to fight and argue, please don't post here. These are only MY OBSERVATIONS and as such are important to me and perhaps those interested in an contrasting opinion of this projector.

I like a great many things about this unit. It is beautiful to look at. It is light and fairly quite. It is at a good price point in the market. I however, find the warts deal breakers and so the reason for the following.

With all that out of the way here we go.....

I just had one of these units in with the idea I would sell this as an affordable unit until we get cheaper 1080P DLP units to offer.

While I did notice an improved contrast level it was not an jaw dropping experience.

I got to wondering why?

I feel it was due to two areas that countered the contrast improvement.

1) the lens is not up to the task of finely focusing thus softening the image overall. ( yes I understand that it resolves to 1 pixel but it is softer overall then my ref projector) It may in fact be just the way LCOS works too.

2) the ANSI contrast is still too low to deliver the 3D pop I am used to seeing. (even in the darker ares of the picture)

Another thing I noticed was that going from 720P to 1080P was not all that noticeable FROM MY SEAT. ( 11.5ft from an 106" diag. 16x9 screen)

So as I have said all along this 1080P hype is mostly just that HYPE. IMO. I do believe that DLP 720P and DLP 1080P will be more noticeable.( time will tell) It goes back to this lens, focus, ANSI contrast thing.

All here are aware of the, IMO, mistake that JVC and Sim are doing with their choice of primary colors. While it usually seems that more is better this is not one of those times. Now if you were allowed to CHOOSE the wrong or right primaries then fine but you cannot. :mad:

In the world of an videophile there is little tolerance for gross flaws or flavors that depart from set standards.

The JVC RS-1 was designed purposely to deviate from the known primary color standards. IMO this was a big mistake and is inexcusable. In this day and age there is no reason to offer an flawed product such as this or any other. In this case it costs the same to make it wrong as it does to make it right.( If you think wrong sells better than right you need to get out and educate the buyer. Trust me, his wife can tell in an heartbeat)

This unit also has been found to show a lot of film grain. Some of this grain is MPEG noise and some is introduced by the unit itself. I don't pretend to be an electrical engineer, but I see this in higher levels and have to say at first blush that there is something going on in the signal path that is adding it in larger quantities. It is really noticeable in the darker part of the image at viewing distances. (AS you can tell I don't care for this added grain or noise. I find it distracting as I do for the softer image and lack of 3D pop).

As an side note, I am not one to find flaw with an image if I cannot see an artifact at seated viewing distance. If it can only be seen when you get up and walk to the screen, then while it may be an interesting point, it has little merit on viewed image performance.

Most of the RS-1 praisers are coming from owning cheaper, lower performing projectors which tend to be bought over the Internet. That means that they are units known not to play by the rules and come with awful gray scale set ups out of the box. The JVC comes calibrated pretty good so this alone will gain some good impressions.

This leads in to the issue for now, and who knows when if ever, there is no easy way to adjust the gray scale on this unit. So it suffers out of the box and will most likely get worse as the lamp ages or is changed. :mad:

You need to be careful with the size of the cables ends on your HDMI cables. That is the HDMI cables end jacket. The HDMI input spacing is pretty close together. I found that if the cable is beefy, as most high quality cables are, then you will not be able to connect two into the projector. This would suck if you already have the cables installed and now they won't fit. :mad: ( You may be able to trim ,that is cut down, the plug insulation but be careful you don't go too far).



So then what am I using for my reference projector?

The InFocus SP 777.

It is obvious that the SP 777 can focus tack sharp and deliver high ANSI contrast images. One look will tell you this. It is very easy to set up and has the light out put to deal with almost any installation issues. It also has interchangeable lenses which is not available on the JVC.

Well, you say, it should due to its higher cost. Well it is not all that much higher. given it's better picture and near perfect and selectable primaries invisible uniformity issues and ruler flat gray-scale. It is still an amazing unit. Tie that to its blinding light output and it still is one sweet unit.

Well you may ask what about those who are on an lower budget. I still find most of the SP 777 qualities in the less $$$ InFocus projectors. These units still deliver more light out-put, accurate primary colors, and good contrast with excellent ANSI contrast and focus which is necessary to achieve that 3D pop.

So there you have it. Yes I am an InFocus dealer. But I can be an JVC dealer too. For now I will use my informed observations to offer an opposing view.

Hey if the customer insists I will even stoop to selling them the JVC RS-1 or even an plasma but ONLY after I inform them of all the issues. I find it's better to let them know BEFORE they spend $$$. I wish more did like-wise.


While I understand that some will take offense to this thread, I hope you will only post here to offer up other issues with this unit you have discovered that I may have missed.

There are many FAN BOY threads that you fans can post to. Try to leave this one for real world facts and issues with the JVC DILA-RS1.

Thanks for your understanding. The money you save may be your own. ;)

Most of the RS-1 praisers are coming from owning cheaper, lower performing projectors which tend to be bought over the Internet.
Your argument would be more believable without this zinger. As it stands, it makes you look like many bricks and mortar dealers who specialize in condescending language to customers who think for themselves, and don't swallow the need to buy their over-priced stuff just because they say so.

I feel it was due to two areas that countered the contrast improvement.

1) the lens is not up to the task of finely focusing thus softening the image overall. ( yes I understand that it resolves to 1 pixel but it is softer overall then my ref projector) It may in fact be just the way LCOS works too.

2) the ANSI contrast is still too low to deliver the 3D pop I am used to seeing. (even in the darker ares of the picture)

Interesting observations. I feel both of these are extremely important. Which is why I bought the projector I did, and not an RS1 ( not to mention the RS1 wouldn't work in my theater )!!

the ANSI contrast is still too low to deliver the 3D pop I am used to seeing. (even in the darker ares of the picture)

Another thing I noticed was that going from 720P to 1080P was not all that noticeable FROM MY SEAT. ( 11.5ft from an 106" diag. 16x9 screen)

So as I have said all along this 1080P hype is mostly just that HYPE. IMO. I do believe that DLP 720P and DLP 1080P will be more noticeable.( time will tell) It goes back to this lens, focus, ANSI contrast thing.)

ANSI, perhaps true. Wouldn't know since I haven't seen the unit. But it appears that DLP is putting this front and center with the new improved LCOS war now emerging.

I have the same screen size and seating distance. Coming from a DLP (Optoma H78DC3) to a Pearl, the improvement was noticeable and immediate. The overall improvement to me seems apparent even at 22 feet. But I believe the detail and overall viewing is best at 12 feet or so.

So I don't buy into hype and apparently even my tired eyes have more capability than I thought. Of course YMMV, or your eyes may vary.

Not to be impolite, but this has some sense of business frustration. The JVC, warts and all (they all have something right?) is certainly going to add to dealer frustration along with the Sony Pearl coming in at an even lower price.

The more I hear about the JVC, the better I appreciate the Pearl. So thanks.

Valuable observations for those of us on the fence still. With that said, this is a discussion forum so why post so many professional opinions and tell others not to disagree with you. Educated disagreements are valuable....the fanboy stuff can post in their own threads.

I personally have decided to go the DLP route and would probably agree with you. I've also said in another thread it is really too damn bad Infocus has not entered the 1080p DLP market. Having had the pleasure of my Infocus 7200 for the past number of years, I believe they would put out one terrific unit

Well, you say, it should due to its higher cost. Well it is not all that much higher.

Dude, its 3 times the price!

Andy K.

Is this the feel good thread for retailers, pearl and ruby owners, and generally anyone who wants to rationalize that the RS1/HD1 aint all that? 8) Glad you guys are able to find a thread!

Dude, its 3 times the price!

Not the version sold here at AVS.

Dude, its 3 times the price!

I think the new MSRP of the 777 is $9999....GREAT deal.

Is this the feel good thread for retailers, pearl and ruby owners, and generally anyone who wants to rationalize that the RS1/HD1 aint all that? 8) Glad you guys are able to find a thread!

I guess the point is that it isn't "all that." And at that price point, it seems unrealistic to expect it to be. Most of us are making compromises, unless we've got $30K to spend on a PJ (and maybe even then). I, for one, value threads that present a product "warts and all" so that I can make an informed choice. I'm a happy new Pearl owner who is completely aware of the limitations of this product and of the generally-stated superiority of the RS1; but time enables people to make better judgments about quality as the true performance characteristics of a piece of equipment become more apparent. This thread is part of that ongoing reevaluation process for the RS1 (revisit the first posts on the Pearl -- you'd think it could cure cancer!).

I was hoping that this forum would contain individuals mature enough to steer away from the HD 70 vs Mits 1000 fanboyism that characterizes the sub-$3K forum.

Brian

Good luck with that whole, "if you can't tell that the RS1 sucks, you're a peon." I hope you sell lots of InFocus projectors as long as I get to keep my RS1.

Proud to be a peon!

I think the new MSRP of the 777 is $9999....GREAT deal.
That is, indeed, a very good price for a 720p unit.

Anyone who has read the JVC Owner's Thread or Calibration Thread knows that the pre-delivery hype has been tempered by reality. Many knowledgeable, observant videophiles have heaped praise as well as critique on the JVC, including GregR, Mark Petersen, Bob Sorel and many others.

The 777 is a great projector and anyone who is looking to have a great home theater experience should definitely audition this unit. But I don't think it's necessary to slam another well regarded (albeit with its shortcomings, like EVERY OTHER PROJECTOR) product to sell or elevate your own. Sounds like cheap salesman talk to me, sorry.

I agree with the previous poster that your attempt to create a legitimate, alternative thread to the other "Fan Boy" (your term) threads loses credibility when you state this:

Try to leave this one for real world facts

and then this:

Most of the RS-1 praisers are coming from owning cheaper, lower performing projectors which tend to be bought over the Internet.

Ouch!

I think your thread could have been much better (and shorter) if you would have just said:

Hi, my name is Allen. I'm an Infocus dealer. I've demoed the SP777 against the JVC and I think the SP777 is much, much better. Please call me at xxx-xxx-xxxx for a free demo in your home. But if you insist on being a FAN BOY "I will even stoop to selling you the JVC RS-1 or even an plasma but ONLY after I inform you of all the issues." ;)

I think the new MSRP of the 777 is $9999....GREAT deal.

That is still dramatically more expensive than the RS1...and for those who have concerns about rainbows and headaches, DLP is a no-go. So, this alternative projector suggestion is not terribly convincing or realistic for many readers.

HOWEVER, the limitations of the RS1 outlined by the original poster (which basically is a summary of limitations already discussed at length in the various RS1 threads, so it is not as if these warts are being hidden somehow), should perhaps give those people pause who are "reasonably" happy with their current projector and are not in a huge rush to upgrade--and thus may make sense to wait for the RS2 and new offerings from competitors down the road. This is my own dilemma. If I didn't already have a projector I'd jump on the RS1 ASAP. But already owning a projector makes the leap a bit more of a stretch--I may still do it and succumb to the upgrade bug, but posts like this one certainly add to the indecision!

Have any reviewers measured the ANSI CR of the SP777? 3-chip DLP suffers from reduced ANSI CR for much of the same reasons that 3-chip LCOS does - increased scatter owing to more complicated 3-panel optical designs. It wouldn't surprise me if the SP777 has better ANSI CR than the RS-1 but I don't think it's anywhere near what the 1-chip DLP's like the Marantz or Sharp can achieve.

The RS-1 isn't perfect, but it doesn't have "major warts". If there were a better projector for under $10k I would buy it....

I too, have no interest in the Ruby/Pearl - I just don't care for the whole DI approach to achieve higher contrast numbers, plus uniformity problems, poor ansi contrast, etc. The RS1 sounded like the perfect solution for me but now I am hearing of not only about some of the same problems but with no adjustments, not hanging the PJ upside down, etc., and with no adjustments, it would seem like being out in a boat with no paddle. I am one the few left on the pre-order list and I am leaning to passing on this PJ. Maybe if they add the adjustments then I might buy.

That is still dramatically more expensive than the RS1...and for those who have concerns about rainbows and headaches, DLP is a no-go.
But don't forget that the 777 is a 3 chipper... no color wheel, no rainbows and hopefully no resulting headaches.

But already owning a projector makes the leap a bit more of a stretch--I may still do it and succumb to the upgrade bug, but posts like this one certainly add to the indecision!

It's made even more difficult when you realize that 6 months from now, if the RS1 follows the path of just about every projector discussed in this forum, everyone will be complaining that it has oversaturated color, horrible noise, artifacts, lousy 3:2 pulldown, limited connectivity, etc., and that the new XX50 or whatever is God's Gift to the HT world.

I like some advice given in another thread--buy what you think is best, enjoy it, and stay off this forum for 2-3 years (as if any of us could do that!).

Brian

I think the new MSRP of the 777 is $9999....GREAT deal.
That doesn't include a lens, does it? The InFocus website lists several lenses ranging in MSRP from $6000 to $8000.

Why do I kid myself into thinking that people of a certain age can overcome the the three year old's "mine is better than your's" reaction? Alan's post may have been a somewhat detailed analysis of the RS1 and its shortcomings, but it really came down to the fact that he wants people to appreciate that the 777 is better than the RS1.

I think that we are beyond the era where manufacturers can slip bad projectors by us. The 777 is fine for what it is. So is the RS1. DLP is far from a dead technology. That ANSI POP keeps it alive. LCOS is not perfect.

Who is Alan addressing? RS1 owners who he wants to make feel bad about their purchase or fence sitters who have not yet made up their minds?

I think your thread could have been much better (and shorter) if you would have just said:

Hi, my name is Allen. I'm an Infocus dealer. I've demoed the SP777 against the JVC and I think the SP777 is much, much better. Please call me at xxx-xxx-xxxx for a free demo in your home. But if you insist on being a FAN BOY "I will even stoop to selling you the JVC RS-1 or even an plasma but ONLY after I inform you of all the issues." ;)
Sounds about right, I would add the following:
If you bought a Ruby, Pearl or are thinking about buying a RS1 you are clearly an idiot. :D

Yeah, its ridiculous really. Just cause you paid $3k for your pearl doesnt really make it any better than it is. I paid $8k for my Ruby and more than that for my Sharp 12k and could have easily bought the Sharp 20k, or pearl - for much cheaper, and none of those PJs hold a candle to the RS1.

The RS1 is better in just about every way then the Ruby, and certainly the Pearl. Hell I could have bought a Infocus 333, via AVS, for not much more than what I paid for my HD1 if I wanted that. 8) Which I didnt .. its not 1080p and contrast ratio was so two years ago. 8)

No surprise that the original poster is provoking these reactions. The best that can be said about his comments is that they provide a summary, in one post, of some of the RS1 warts (whether these are "major warts" is another matter, and subject to debate).

The real question for the fence sitters is: what is the likelihood of of some/most/all of these warts disappearing in the next model year (i.e. RS2 or equivalent from other manufacturers)? I can wait six months. I can't wait 18 months!

I tried to rationalize buying saving the money and buying the Pearl, instead, thankfully I was able to see an HD1 and bought it. 8)

Thats the first I have read of an issue with the lens. Isnt the RS1 lens supposed to be a major improvement from the Ruby and Pearls?

What the original poster leaves out is that despite the fact that there are some of those issues in some of the projectors, they are mostly considered to be minor annoyances that are well toreable to most of the owners on those threads. I for one only see the red fringing in one pixel wide test patterns, but I really never notice it when watching movies.

My biggest, really only, peeve with the RS1/HD1 is that it doesnt have vertical stretch! But I went ahead and bought an Anthem AVM50 .. which arrives on Friday. 8)

No surprise that the original poster is provoking these reactions. The best that can be said about his comments is that they provide a summary, in one post, of some of the RS1 warts (whether these are "major warts" is another matter, and subject to debate).

The real question for the fence sitters is: what is the likelihood of of some/most/all of these warts disappearing in the next model year (i.e. RS2 or equivalent from other manufacturers)? I can wait six months. I can't wait 18 months!

My guess is that it will be at least a year before something better than the RS1 is available at less than $10K. E.g., a prototype gets shown at CEDIA this fall (as the RS1 was last fall), is announced to be available in Q1 '08, and actually is available late spring/summer of '08--just like the RS1 this year.

Catdaddy,

You make some good points. But the interesting part of this thread is that it enables people to see an opposing POV. A number of postings of RS1 owners who have Rubys have indicated that the performance of the RS1 isn't that much different from the Ruby. Your experience is that it is superior in every way. Tryg loves the RS1, but says the upgrade from the Ruby isn't worth it.

Lots of points of view--and the only way to judge is to see the PJ for yourself (as you have) and make a judgment. I love "poppy" color, so I have a feeling I'd love the RS1. But my next PJ will probably be in the $20-30K group (after I sell the kids for medical experiments!)--the upgrading never ends!

Brian

Yeah, its ridiculous really. Just cause you paid $3k for your pearl doesnt really make it any better than it is. I paid $8k for my Ruby and more than that for my Sharp 12k and could have easily bought the Sharp 20k, or pearl - for much cheaper, and none of those PJs hold a candle to the RS1.

The RS1 is better in just about every way then the Ruby, and certainly the Pearl. Hell I could have bought a Infocus 333, via AVS, for not much more than what I paid for my HD1 if I wanted that. 8) Which I didnt .. its not 1080p and contrast ratio was so two years ago. 8)

Hmm, no pulldown issues, no locked in color saturation, no noise problems, and at significant less cost. Are you really certain about the Pearl not being able to hold a candle to the JVC? Other than the flawless viewing of HD-DVD and some Blu-ray, there appears to be lots of noise reported in various sources. When I hear that a show like Sportscenter on ESPN is producing noise via its 720p HD source, I know there's no candle holding necessary.

However, I really like most of what I've heard about the JVC. What the Pearl can't hold a candle to is the horizontal shift. The JVC offers a lot and the Pearl next to none. That coupled with some improved dynamic contrast seems like its strong suit.

I tried to rationalize buying saving the money and buying the Pearl, instead, thankfully I was able to see an HD1 and bought it. 8)

You had a Ruby and were considering buying a Pearl? Why would anyone want to do that?

:)

Brian

I paid $8k for my Ruby and more than that for my Sharp 12k and could have easily bought the Sharp 20k, or pearl - for much cheaper, and none of those PJs hold a candle to the RS1.

what? :rolleyes:

I'm a fence sitter, but from all of what I've heard all of the PJs you listed have advantages and disadvantages over each other. I wouldn't make nonsensical statements like that unless you back it up with a detailed explanation. The Sharp 20k, RS-1 and Pearl are what I'm torn between and frankly, the more I hear from overly defensive, "catty" RS-1 owners, the more I gravitate to the Pearl owners that don't need to defend anything.

The RS-1 isn't perfect and its issues are a bigger deal for some. The need for an external VP just to enjoy your pq is a deal breaker for me.

I'm glad that you are enjoying your RS-1, but why do like the OP and put others down?

Color saturation: for me, fixed by reducing color level in picture setting.

Noise problems: loudness? no, noise problems.

Noise problems: grain/artifacts? brightness -1 or 2, all gone. Personally I set to gamma c, and -3 brightness and grain/artifacts are insignificant with no loss of detail.

Pulldown issues: You mean 480i to 1080p conversion? Never noticed, wont be an issue, cause ill have a Gennum VP in my receiver.

Significantly less cost: Yeah, that one would be nice to have. I wish it only cost $3000. 8(

You make some good points. But the interesting part of this thread is that it enables people to see an opposing POV. A number of postings of RS1 owners who have Rubys have indicated that the performance of the RS1 isn't that much different from the Ruby. Your experience is that it is superior in every way. Tryg loves the RS1, but says the upgrade from the Ruby isn't worth it.


Brian, I think what Tryg, and I think Jason too, was saying is that if you had the Ruby or the Pearl it wouldnt be too bad a deal to stick with them rather losing your shorts to upgrade. When it really comes down to it, you are kind of splitting hairs between 85% to 100% of each others performance when you are comparing these projectors but the price between the Pearl and the RS1 is NOT so far off.

I'm a fence sitter, but from all of what I've heard all of the PJs you listed have advantages and disadvantages over each other. I wouldn't make nonsensical statements like that unless you back it up with a detailed explanation. The Sharp 20k, RS-1 and Pearl are what I'm torn between and frankly, the more I hear from overly defensive, "catty" RS-1 owners, the more I gravatate to the Pearl owners that don't need to defend anything.


Ive already posted my observations on these on other threads. Ive seen them all, demoed them all, and owned some of them. The short of it is that I bought the HD1 and the others dont compare.

Im not trying to defend anything. Personally I dont care if you buy a Pearl, an HD1, or a 777. Makes no nevermind to me what you "gravatate" to.

Those are just the facts, maam.

...Yeah, its ridiculous really. Just cause you paid $3k for your pearl doesnt really make it any better than it is. I paid $8k for my Ruby and more than that for my Sharp 12k and could have easily bought the Sharp 20k, or pearl - for much cheaper, and none of those PJs hold a candle to the RS1....
It appears that you and Allen have the exact same disease. I would suggest that you each bomb your self on each other, and leave the rest of us to make pj decisions that may be appropriate for our individual requirements.
The Pearl is correct for some needs.
The Ruby for others.
The RS1...
The 777 ...

Every one should buy a Sharp 20K, there is no other! Buying any other pj is a waste of money and just shows how stupid you are. ......

Oh sorry, :D :D , nevermind...

Those are just the facts, maam.

I love when people get offensive and then state that their "opinions" are "facts." Lemme guess -- you're the "decider"?

how quickly this thread has degenerated...sigh.

"***Warning*** Do not look into laser with remaining eye!!"

LOL.

"***Warning*** Do not look into laser with remaining eye!!"

LOL.

Actual warning on a laser in Fermilab. :D

To avoid getting into a circular agument, basically, yes. 8)

I dont mean to offend any owners or Rubies (HHF), Pearls, or Sharp 20ks, because they are fine projectors. 9) So my last summation for the thread, before I get more people pissed off at me, is that Ive owned, or subtantially demoed, all of these projectors and without considering price (meaning even if they were all priced equally) I would have bought the HD1. To me, and my eyes, none of the others compared.

Degenerated? Look at how it started. It was an invitation to get jiggy!

Sorry if I pissed anyone off. I was just having some fun!

That doesn't include a lens, does it? The InFocus website lists several lenses ranging in MSRP from $6000 to $8000.

I believe the $9999 price includes the standard 1.4-1.8 lens. The others are options for short throw, rear projection, etc. I could be wrong though.

Sorry if I pissed anyone off. I was just having some fun!Catdaddy, you're a S*&$ disturber ;)

Degenerated? Look at how it started. It was an invitation to get jiggy!

Agreed.

And nothing new was discussed in terms of some of the issues that the RS1 has that haven't been discussed elsewhere, ad nauseum. Yet, the title says "an opposing view". Some of the phrasing and several comments come off as Elitist and rude.

I'm disappointed Alan.

I'm in the 3rd round of the pre-buy and have read "most" of the posts in the various threads and I have think it all boils down to what pushes your buttons from an image quality pov.

For me, its the reproduction of black and detail in dark scenes. Although this is going to be my first PJ I have seen most of the "usual suspects" in a variety of settings. Bottom line for me is nothing pulls me out of a story more than poor black levels. So I think the RS1 is the best choice in my case- at least the best available now. For you it may be fan noise, or color saturation etc... But to paint everyone with the same brush and say the ABC 123 is better than the XYZ 456 because of the following issues ignores the point. People have different frames of reference - always have, always will. What I find valuable about this forum is the ability to read a variety of divergent views, filter what is important to me and draw my own conclusions. So I really enjoy seeing different views and well-supported points back and forth. I may agree with you, or I may not, but your opinion is valuable all the same. What I don't enjoy are condescending statements that imply people's opinions aren't valuable (i.e. coming from <$3k projectors or whatever the OP said). And I agree with CatDaddy - it was an invitation to "get jiggy".

I just want to say that my friend has a Infocus 777 with a Crystalio2 and a DNP screen.$18,000.00. later I can say that I would not give up my JVCRS-1 for his 777.I find that my pic looks better and I'm not running on a Crystalio2 or a great screen.I will give him the lumens part hands down but the over all pic I'll just stick to my no good RS-1 that is supplying me with happiness each day that goes by

OK, I love the mostly positive and useful posts.

I would like to clarify a few things.

I noticed from the other threads that those who had the most "good things" to say were coming from lesser projectors with less than stellar performance most of which are sold to folks VIA the Internet. Wade through those HUGE treads and you will see what I mean.

Not a slam unless you feel bad for the way or what you bought.

But it is understood that most higher quality/performing units are not allowed to be sold over the Internet.

The InFocus SP 777 is $9999 retail and the JVC DILA is $6200 retail.

So IMO $2799 is not that much more to spend especially if you intend to by a good scaler to fix some of what ails the RS-1

The 777 does come with a lens, it is a 3 chip 720P DLP projector. It is about as loud, sound wise, as the JVC in low or normal setting. It is bigger and heavier about 45 lbs. It is also IMO better looking but the RS-1 is a good looking unit. Again IMO.

I started this thread for info mainly due to the amount of junk comments you would have to sift through to get these points out of them.

I hate when folks attribute bad motives to folks they don't know or have never spoken with. I equally hate it when folks disagree and have to resort to gross exaggeration to make them look better or feel better.

Here's and couple of examples....

"Good luck with that whole, "if you can't tell that the RS1 sucks, you're a peon." I hope you sell lots of InFocus projectors as long as I get to keep my RS1.

Proud to be a peon!"

"I think your thread could have been much better (and shorter) if you would have just said:

Hi, my name is Allen. I'm an Infocus dealer. I've demoed the SP777 against the JVC and I think the SP777 is much, much better. Please call me at xxx-xxx-xxxx for a free demo in your home. But if you insist on being a FAN BOY "I will even stoop to selling you the JVC RS-1 or even an plasma but ONLY after I inform you of all the issues." "


I too found the early posts extolling the miraculous performances of the Ruby and Pearl to be way to fanboy for me. I thought the cancer cure was found also. I would think that the JVC can walk on water by some of the posts.


Buy what you like this is what it is all about. But as I said in the opening post. If you are after a projector that displays an image as intended while getting out of the way then the JVC DILA RS-1 is NOT for you. It brings it's own very colored flavor to the screen. This to is too bad. Thus the direction to other projectors that do not misstep like the RS-1 does.

All too often I get calls from folks looking into ISF calibration. After a discussion, as to what is involved and why it is important, they wish they would have called me BEFORE they bought what they did. I hate that this happened. But it is inevitable. There will always be some who believe what they read whether in a sales brochure or in a magazine. Sadly there are many of these that are less than fully disclosing.

I would rather do the right thing and not make a sale then the wrong thing and sear my conscience and good reputation.

Lastly I understand if you own one of the units I spoke of as not being accurate that you feel I was slamming or attacking you.

I want you to know this. It was not done in the spirit of meanness but rather one of education. We are all on a journey to home theater Nirvana. There is a huge learning curve to be overcome and during that process we may make some bad choices. That's life.

I feel that there are some within the industry that do know what's up and while doing business with them may seem expensive, I have found that doing it right once, is always cheaper then doing it over again. :)


P.S has no owner of the RS-1 found that the HDMI inputs are too close together? Interesting.

Catdaddy, you're a S*&$ disturber

What the $%^#?! Me?! 8)

Rob's the one! He is just much better spoken than me, but if you read between the lines its some pretty hardcore $%^&! 8)

I have the RS1 and like the image a lot... but it certainly has its issues (like all projectors). Having an unbiased evaluation stating both attributes and deterants is key to making an informed decision, and being able to take that info as well as price to determine what works for a given person in his/her home theater is critical to getting a PJ that makes him/her happy. It's too bad it's so hard to remain unbiased. The OP clearly had alterior motives and "fanboys" also have theirs. It's too bad this discussion started the way it did as it seemed to invite quick deterioration. Oh well. There is still useful info in this thread for those on the fence... they just have to wade through the crap. At least it's a short thread!

http://209.218.200.18/pics/gong.jpg

"So often the IDEA of something by it's specs is far greater then the REALITY of it's implementation. This is the case here with the JVC RS1."

IMO it's the IDEA of the warts that's getting overhyped and belying the fantastic picture, which is not to say it's better than the SP777 (I haven't seen one, but wouldn't be surprised if I liked it better than the RS!.

"the ANSI contrast is still too low to deliver the 3D pop I am used to seeing. (even in the darker ares of the picture)"

This is an uninformed statement. The intrascene CR in a dim scene is determined by the pj's on/off CR.

"The RS-1 isn't perfect and its issues are a bigger deal for some. The need for an external VP just to enjoy your pq is a deal breaker for me."

Unless you have seen one for yourself, that would be "alleged" need for a VP. I'd guess that the vast majority of people would find no problem at all, and even out of the 100 or so RS1 owners here at AVS, how many are complaining about it?

Seems like about 10% to me.

The InFocus SP 777 is $9999 retail and the JVC DILA is $6200 retail.

So IMO $2799 is not that much more to spend especially if you intend to by a good scaler to fix some of what ails the RS-1


That's actually $3799, which equates to 60+% increase over the RS-1. I'm an InFocus and JVC dealer as well, but I don't sell the 777 to the same customers as I would recommend the RS-1 to. What projector would you recommend in the RS-1's price range?

Agreed.

And nothing new was discussed in terms of some of the issues that the RS1 has that haven't been discussed elsewhere, ad nauseum. Yet, the title says "an opposing view". Some of the phrasing and several comments come off as Elitist and rude.

I'm disappointed Alan.

Rob

I'm sorry you feel this way.

As one of my customers you above all others should know how seriously I take good video. Many ISF calibrators are labeled Elitist. I guess it goes with the territory. When you know what properly calibrated images look like you have little tolerance for wrong ones and those who support or offer them .

While I know you have bought one of the JVC's sight unseen, I think you may be bummed when you compare it to your Dwin. I think you will like the color of the JVC better as your Dwin has not be calibrated. If your Dwin has a relatively new bulb you will notice the JVC's lack of depth and softness. You will also see more video noise especially in the darker parts of the image.

Even so your Dwin is not in the same league as the INFocus SP 777.

Thus why I guess you turned down my offer a while back to bring it by to show it to you on your screen. Something about not wanting to be tempted IIRC. ;)

That's actually $3799, which equates to 60+% increase over the RS-1. I'm an InFocus and JVC dealer as well, but I don't sell the 777 to the same customers as I would recommend the RS-1 to. What projector would you recommend in the RS-1's price range?

YES indeed, what projector would you recommend for 6200.00 , or less?....inquiring minds want to know.



CHEERS, TC

What the $%^#?! Me?! 8)

Rob's the one! He is just much better spoken than me, but if you read between the lines its some pretty hardcore $%^&! 8)

:D

Allen, it seems to me that what you did is akin to trying to relate what happenned in a basketball game by only stating the number of fouls each player had. While that is a vital part of what happenned in the game, you left out most of the other stats, most importantly the final score.

In the end, despite any issues that owners, or reviewers, of the RS1/HD1 have with their PJ, and some of those are valid for some owners and not for others, there is a lot more superlative that is being said by the owners that far overshadow the negatives.

I dont think anyone took it that you were attacking anyone. Just that you were painting, intentional or not, a half picture that could potentially mislead someone to the incorrect conclusion on the RS1.

In the end, and I know someday Greg is gonna rue the day he said it 8), but Greg Rogers - one of the most objective and well respected reviewers of projectors on our forums, if not the world!, when pressed, admitted that he preferred the RS1 (because the contrast ratio was just too much to overcome,) over the other very good projectors he had recently reviewed.

That would be akin to relaying what happenned in a basketball game by just stating the final score. At least it gets you to the correct conclusion about what people think about the RS1.

If InFocus came out with a $9999 3-chip 1080p projector, I think a lot of people here would jump all over it.

Mike your right my mistake on the math. :(

As for another choice, I think the IN 78/SP 7210 are good they are cheaper than the JVC and have no color issues. They can be calibrated and are brighter. If rainbows are the problem then the choices are the SP 777. To get away from rainbows is not cheap when it comes to DLP. :)

What ever you choose it will ultimately be determined by the customers application needs and budget. I would NEVER recommend a unit that I could not calibrate as this flies in the face of logic and good video.

If InFocus came out with a $9999 3-chip 1080p projector, I think a lot of people here would jump all over it.
True, but this thread is only for people who can't see the difference between 720p and 1080p from their seating distance, as clearly stated in the original post.


:O

Rob

I'm sorry you feel this way.

As one of my customers you above all others should know how seriously I take good video. Many ISF calibrators are labeled Elitist. I guess it goes with the territory. When you know what properly calibrated images look like you have little tolerance for wrong ones and those who support or offer them .

I think you are missing the point. Nobody is saying that you are not entitled to your opinion, or that you shouldn't be bothered by the over-saturated colors. As an ISF tech, I would expect you to be upset about this. The problem is that you made several somewhat inflammatory and unfair statements in your post that seemed rather unprofessional for you, including:

Most of the RS-1 praisers are coming from owning cheaper, lower performing projectors which tend to be bought over the Internet.

What does this mean? That people who like the RS1 are coming from sh*t projectors and don't know their ass from a hole in the ground? That's how this comes across.

There are many FAN BOY threads that you fans can post to. Try to leave this one for real world facts and issues with the JVC DILA-RS1.

Fan boy threads? Gee, Allen, have you actually bothered to read the RS1 threads? Issues have been discussed ad nauseum, but you refer to these as "FAN BOY" threads!? That is a slap in the face, anyway you look at it. Period. Again, you are implying that anyone who likes the RS1 and posts praises about it is NOT being objective, and just constitute "FAN BOYS"! Those other threads don't contain "real world facts"?!

That is unfair, inaccurate, unprofessional, and, well, just plain WRONG.

I don't see how you could be surprised that some others have interpreted your comments as saying/implying that "If you bought a Ruby, Pearl or are thinking about buying a RS1 you are clearly an idiot".

Every issue that you discuss in your post about the RS1 has been discussed in other RS1 threads. You have not raised a single issue that has not been discussed previously. How's that for "real world facts"?

While I know you have bought one of the JVC's sight unseen, I think you may be bummed when you compare it to your Dwin. I think you will like the color of the JVC better as your Dwin has not be calibrated. If your Dwin has a relatively new bulb you will notice the JVC's lack of depth and softness. You will also see more video noise especially in the darker parts of the image.

Bummed? You haven't read my posts apparently. I HAVE compared it to my Dwin! The only thing that I am "bummed" about is the fact that I haven't been able to enjoy the RS1 sooner! Softness? Are you kidding me? The RS1 is most certainly sharper than my Dwin. Lack of depth? HA! There is absolutely ZERO comparison in terms of image depth between the RS1 and Dwin in any scene that has as much as a few shadows in it! Not even close! The only time the RS1 falls short in terms of depth is in the much brighter scenes with very little dark areas, and even then the difference isn't very big.

The RS1 is a pretty large improvement over my Dwin, in almost every respect.

Even so your Dwin is not in the same league as the INFocus SP 777.

When did this thread become about the Dwin and the 777?

Thus why I guess you turned down my offer a while back to bring it by to show it to you on your screen. Something about not wanting to be tempted IIRC. ;)

Right! That was about a year ago, and I had already determined that I would not be upgrading my Dwin to another 720p unit, as I was set on 1080p.

Glad I waited! :)

Rob

I missed your comparison post as I don't have the time to wade through all the posts, sorry I missed it. I am also sorry you are in a tuss over my choice of words that gets you to draw absurd conclusions ending in cussing. Not at all what I said but it looks like what you thought I meant, again sorry. Should I be held responsible for your jumping to conclusions? This is another example of gross exaggeration. This kind of ridiculous name calling is what I was hoping to avoid. But here, any more, it is to be expected. As I posted in the past this forum continues to sink to societies lowest common denominator. Name calling and hysterical diatribes.

I was pointing out that the RS-1 is not accurate in certain image areas and as I said before if I came from a cheaper projector, or one that is more inaccurate I would have nothing but good to say about the RS-1 . This is what I meant. And for those, less than hysterical, I think it is obvious.

I am happy that you are happy with your RS-1 now can we continue in a civil manner, you and I? I hope so.

I want you and those who are all up in arms to know this, buy what you want but just know that accurate colors and gray scale calibration, image softness, and, per my reference, reduced ANSI contrast are going to be issues with the RS-1.

I have lived with my 777 for a very long time and none with your Dwin. I guess the Dwin was worse than I remember. I'm sorry for the error. I do remember it needed to be calibrated.

Name calling and hysterical diatribes.


I re-read Rob's post. I didn't see either.

Allen these quotes speak for themselves:

Most of the RS-1 praisers are coming from owning cheaper, lower performing projectors which tend to be bought over the Internet. Hmm. Intreresting.

There are many FAN BOY threads that you fans can post to. Try to leave this one for real world facts and issues with the JVC DILA-RS1. Hmm. Uh huh, ok!

Heres two that go together:

While I know you have bought one of the JVC's sight unseen, I think you may be bummed when you compare it to your Dwin. I think you will like the color of the JVC better as your Dwin has not be calibrated. If your Dwin has a relatively new bulb you will notice the JVC's lack of depth and softness. You will also see more video noise especially in the darker parts of the image.

I have lived with my 777 for a very long time and none with your Dwin. I guess the Dwin was worse than I remember. I'm sorry for the error. I do remember it needed to be calibrated.

Oh. Oh well. Nice try!

Time to look for a new ISF calibrator when your old one is losing his eyesight and his memory! 8)

Regarding your facts.

I have been following all of the RS-1 threads and I own one that I have now put 178 hours on.

I have read that people are noticing more grain. I have not read anyone say that the RS-1 introduces grain/noise. In fact, I have read that a signal from a computer or source not based on a camera contains no grain. I can verify this. If the projector is adding grain, it is pretty selective in only wanting to make camera sourced video grainy.

I regard not absolutely needing a calibration as a good thing. I can understand disappointment if a part of your liveliehood is derived from charging a customer extra to make the product you sold him look like it should. From most reports, the gray scale tracking is excellent out of the box. This should evoke praise, not disdain.

Lastly, a 720p projector that costs more, requires a calibration, has an 1800:1 on/off CR w/ 507:1 ANSI CR (per WSR) as a reference projector has me scratching my head. Yes. It is bright (2000 lumens according to spec). However, as a video purist, wouldn't you need a 206" diagonal 1.0 gain screen to bring it down to 12ftl? Projector reviews measured light output at 804 lumens, so you are probably just a bit brighter than 12ftl with 106" after the bulb dims. I'm not sure why projector reviews rated the light output at only a 100 or so more lumens than the RS-1 though.

Perhaps many people aren't complaining about the closeness of the HDMI connections b/c they are using a switching source. I have 3 HDMI outputs and will soon have another one to add into the mix. Or maybe a lot of the readers on this forum realize an overly expensive and bulky HDMI cable isn't necessary and bought a cheap (idiots!) HDMI cable from one of the forum sponsors.

The tone of the orignal post is also insulting to a lot of people here.

No offense to the OP, but WHO CARES that ONE salesman (not that he is the only one) does not like the RS1? It is hard to take anything that a salesman has to say (good or bad) to seriously and without a large grain of salt as you never know what the motives could be which is unfortunate since there may be none. :confused: First, he is in the VAST minority. Second, I would much rather put weight into the opinions of ART at PR (he liked it so much he is buying one for his own theater to replace a well respected DLP which is the BenQ 8720), Ekkehart at C4H (Even though he does sell these, I very much respect him as a reviewer), and of course GregR at WSR. Did they find some issues? Of course, just like they have with EVERY projector they have reviewed to date. However, it was pretty obvious from each of these reviews that the overall "vibe" for the projector was one of extreme excitement and joy and that the issues were minor at best in the grand scheme of things.

I personally do not like dealers with this type of attitude, and it is the whole reason why I am dealing with Jason and AVS instead of the guy I was dealing with locally (who has a very similar attitude to the OP). IF he (my previous dealer) did not sell it, it was garbage basically, and I was crazy for not liking what he liked (it was that bad). Not that this applies here since apparently (supposedly :rolleyes: ) this guy could sell JVC if he wished.

The other issue I have with this is the 777 is nearly 2x the price of the RS1 :eek: If it was not better in some ways, that would be the real shock. The fact that the RS1 has a few significant advatages over it (CR mainly) at nearly half the price is just further testament to the amazing price/performance ratio that the RS1 holds.

The problem is not his opinion it is the fact that it is only part of the story. Why not expand on the good points as well which there are many as we know.

Rant over

Man, I feel dumb now! I knew I should have bought a DLP! Just think, I could be tripping out on rainbows and getting queezy as we speak! Us poor, uneducated former LCD owners just don't know which way is up!

Seriously, don't let this guy rile you up. Go enjoy your new toys. I know I will! :D(No offense to people who can handle DLP.) ;)

I could be tripping out on rainbows and getting queezy as we speak! Us poor, uneducated former LCD owners just don't know which way is up!

Seriously, don't let this guy rile you up. Go enjoy your new toys. I know I will! :D(No offense to people who can handle DLP.) ;)

Again... the 777 has no color wheel, no rainbows, and hopefully no queezy viewers. But... it is a 720p machine for a list of $9999... in this day and age? Sure, it has some advantages like light output and nice ANSI contrast. But is it worth it? Because you get miserable on/off contrast and 720p to go with it.

I couldn't help myself after reading the title of this thread. I had to read it! :)

Even though I knew I didn't really have to read it at all. The title says it all!

Lastly, a 720p projector that costs more, requires a calibration, has an 1800:1 on/off CR w/ 507:1 ANSI CR (per WSR) as a reference projector has me scratching my head. Yes. It is bright (2000 lumens according to spec). However, as a video purist, wouldn't you need a 206" diagonal 1.0 gain screen to bring it down to 12ftl? Projector reviews measured light output at 804 lumens, so you are probably just a bit brighter than 12ftl with 106" after the bulb dims. I'm not sure why projector reviews rated the light output at only a 100 or so more lumens than the RS-1 though.


Thanks for posting the review spec's.

I'll take 15000:1 on/off with 300:1 ANSI CR over 1800:1 on/off and 500:1 ANSI CR any day. 800 true lumens at D65 is a barely noticeable improvement over 700 true lumens. In this day and age of 1080p source material (BD and HD-DVD), 720p native projectors are dead.

Again... the 777 has no color wheel, no rainbows, and hopefully no queezy viewers. But... it is a 720p machine for a list of $9999... in this day and age? Sure, it has some advantages like light output and nice ANSI contrast. But is it worth it? Because you get miserable on/off contrast and 720p to go with it.
Yeah, but apparently the only "quality" projectors in us poor folks price range are one chippers.

its funny how SOME (maybe just one) owners are vociferously defending the RS-1 and doing the same BS as the OP.

I have no horse in this race, but I got attacked for simply pointing out that OP and owners are doing the same thing at each other like 5 years olds fighting during recess.

We have CatDaddy saying the Sharp 20K, the Ruby/Pearl, "doesn't hold a candle" to the RS-1 and the OP saying his 777 (the way he speaks about it, you'd think it was a Boeing, not an Infocus) is god's projector brought to earth.

I was hoping that this thread would elicit some frank discussions about the RS-1 and what it does well and what it could be better in. I've read all the others threads (except large portions of the owner's thread due to its immense size). I guess the summary of all of this negativity is that:

RS-1 has oversaturated colors, some mc issues (mitigated by 1 pixel shift ability), and some minor corner brightness, plus if you invert the PJ its LUT table is done via computer and may have more innaccuracies than non-inverted. Did I miss anything? oh yea, the Gennum processor seems to be underperforming and I know I read many people state that an external VP is a good idea, if not "necessary" to fix some of these color and other issues. Am I wrong?

The positives are pretty much everything else including its killer app of 15K:1 CR and good ANSI.

I guess I can't rely on AVS for down-to-earth information. Everyone's hitting the electric blue kool-aid and I'm a cup short. That really sucks as I am really infected by upgraditis and this seemed to be the perfect opportunity to buy a new 1080p capable PJ. I guess I should just wait the 12 hours until the kool-aid wears off and everyone is tired as hell from their "trip." ;)

Yes, but if you sit 1.35 feet back from an 8' wide screen, what the hell you need a 1080p machine for anyways!

Contrast ratio, why the hell bother? With lights on and blinds open does it really matter?

The more I think about it this guy really knows what he is talking about. I take back everything I said. 8)

Its true, you know. What I said .. I owned the Sharp 12k and the Ruby and spent lots of time really wanting to take a Pearl or a Sharp 20k home, but just couldnt do it. Thankfully I got my hands on an HD1.

Thank GOD for that otherwise Id still be waiting on my RS1 8)

Keep waiting though, if you want. Doesnt bother me one bit. 8)

Catdaddy67,

I appreciate that you owned those projectors and have viewed and evaluated the others, but if you don't give additional information and/or qualify what you mean you're doing the same stuff as OP. He's clearly had the ability to view tons of PJs in depth as well so the question is:

Is he just as qualified as you to spout generalizations in a technical forum?

I, for one, as someone who is looking to buy PJs would love your in-depth appraisal of the PJs (via PM). I know I have to get a location and view them all (kinda hard in Chi-town) but I have used AVSForum to much success relying on the community. I can't, nor can anyone else, really take they all suck and can't hold a candle to my RS-1 as useful information.

I hate when folks attribute bad motives to folks they don't know or have never spoken with. I equally hate it when folks disagree and have to resort to gross exaggeration to make them look better or feel better.

Here's and couple of examples....

""I think your thread could have been much better (and shorter) if you would have just said:

Hi, my name is Allen. I'm an Infocus dealer. I've demoed the SP777 against the JVC and I think the SP777 is much, much better. Please call me at xxx-xxx-xxxx for a free demo in your home. But if you insist on being a FAN BOY "I will even stoop to selling you the JVC RS-1 or even an plasma but ONLY after I inform you of all the issues."

Sorry if you hate my "example" but let me point a few things out to you:

Hi, my name is Allen... (FACT)

I'm an Infocus dealer... (FACT)

I've demoed the SP777... (FACT)

I will even stoop to selling you the JVC RS-1... (YOUR STATEMENT FROM YOUR FIRST POST)

(sarcasm on) Allen I'm so sorry that I had to resort to gross exaggeration to make a point. (sarcasm off) :rolleyes:

No credibility Allen, none. C-Ya.

I have already given my comparisons on other threads! You can research them if you like, I have no idea where they are .. but I did sum it up for you!

I did sum it up for you!

LOL. Ok. I realize you did sum it up, but that summary isn't what I was looking for...

I will attempt to look up your previous posts as you've done what I really want to do -- sit down with everything I'm interested in...

This kind of ridiculous name calling is what I was hoping to avoid. But here, any more, it is to be expected. As I posted in the past this forum continues to sink to societies lowest common denominator. Name calling and hysterical diatribes.

LOL... After reading the title of this thread, I'm quite surprised this has been as civil as it has given your less than favorable remarks about the current flavor of the month! I expected the bees to be swarming much worse, so far you've only attracted a couple! :D


BTW, I didn't see any real 'name calling' in Robs post. ;)

I couldn't help myself after reading the title of this thread. I had to read it! :)

Like any of us felt differently??? :D

Forceflow - there is much more than one pixel to adjust. At least five.

This kind of ridiculous name calling is what I was hoping to avoid. But here, any more, it is to be expected. As I posted in the past this forum continues to sink to societies lowest common denominator. Name calling and hysterical diatribes.
What a strange thread. This feels like someone setting the room on fire and then complaining about the heat.

I really don't see a lot of difference between this thread and Icon Master's constant harping on how bright the Canon projectors are and how much better a picture than the Ruby's they throw, except that Icon Master was also agruing that the Canon was cheaper whereas the 777 is more expensive than the RS1.

There's a phrase for this, "cognitive dissonance." People on both sides want to believe their product is the best, whether they buy them or sell them, and will emphasize any evidence that supports that belief. Often, people don't weigh evidence and come to conclusions, they come to conclusions and find the evidence that supports them. That's why we call them "people" and not "computers." The people who lose in this thread are the fence-sitters who may miss out on the opportunity to view a great picture at a bargain price because of this discussion. To them, I address the following words: SEE FOR YOURSELF. Whatever you decide, that's OK, but don't let yourself be scared or convinced by words from either side. Use your own eyes, not someone else's.

We now return you to your originally scheduled brouhaha already in progress.

Sorry if you hate my "example" but let me point a few things out to you:

Hi, my name is Allen... (FACT)

I'm an Infocus dealer... (FACT)

I've demoed the SP777... (FACT)

I will even stoop to selling you the JVC RS-1... (YOUR STATEMENT FROM YOUR FIRST POST)

(sarcasm on) Allen I'm so sorry that I had to resort to gross exaggeration to make a point. (sarcasm off) :rolleyes:

No credibility Allen, none. C-Ya.

Add these few (so many more, so little time) to your list:

I would rather do the right thing and not make a sale then the wrong thing and sear my conscience and good reputation. That ship sailed long ago and has since sunk at sea.

As I posted in the past this forum continues to sink to societies lowest common denominator. Name calling and hysterical diatribes. Then why do you insist on coming back and using it to stir up trouble and insult people? And I saw no name calling or "hysterical diatribes" except by YOU.

This (IMO) unethical sales trollop only visits here to pump up his sales, site and services. He has often posted in a similar manner of rudeness and outright insult and incivility. He often (see above for example) immediately dismisses these very forums he so gleefully abuses with his ridiculous comments and predictions (remember he recently predicted that the reported InFocus business problems were untrue and that InFocus had a big 1080 PJ surprise to announce). Uh huh, we're still waiting Fleener. He has, in the past, defended the InFocus policy of NO internet sales, yet openly (I still have the original posts and PM's if he dares challenge the facts) offered to sell me a 777 via internet in direct violation of his dealer policy agreement - so much for reputation and credibility.

The very content and tenor of his comments in the 1st post tell you all you need to know when assessing this guy's reputation and credibility, along with his past posts. I'm delighted that so many, including his own customers, recognize his tactics and misleading or totally inaccurate statements as what they are.

I only wish, since he so openly and so often dismisses this very forum he abuses, that he would leave it and keep his one-sided bs to himself. After all, he claims the forum is basically worthless, so why post and stir up trouble where there was none. I have had his tactics up to here and for what it is worth I am now forwarding his past unprofessional, unethical and demeaning communications with me to InFocus' corporate headquarters and his local BBB. It may do little good, given their current business situation, but Allen Fleener needs to be exposed for what he is. I'm sure I can predict his response as to how he was only expressing an opinion, etc. and he is sad it degenerated (meaning someone/many disagreed with the message and the terribly rude and crude delivery). Just read the 1st post and judge for yourselves.

There's a phrase for this, "cognitive dissonance."

In the spirit of this thread... NO IT'S NOT! Cognitive dissonance requires that the subject believe two incompatible things at the same time. They then create a belief system, not based in reality, to make the two jibe. Wait a minute... YOU'RE RIGHT!

In the end, and I know someday Greg is gonna rue the day he said it 8), but Greg Rogers - one of the most objective and well respected reviewers of projectors on our forums, if not the world!, when pressed, admitted that he preferred the RS1 (because the contrast ratio was just too much to overcome,) over the other very good projectors he had recently reviewed.


Catdaddy67,
I must have missed this. I remember him being asked, but I thought he skirted the issue. Do you remember where he said this, I would like to read it.

To them, I address the following words: SEE FOR YOURSELF. Whatever you decide, that's OK, but don't let yourself be scared or convinced by words from either side. Use your own eyes, not someone else's.

I would really love that but the RS-1 is kinda in short supply and I have no clue where to see one in Chicago. That's one of many reasons I'm holding off on buying anything. I really want to see whether the colors are oversaturated to my eye and I want to see how much better it is than the Ruby/Qualia/Sharp 20k that I've seen thus far.

We now return you to your originally scheduled brouhaha already in progress.

lol. :D

It has been amusing to read over this thread; as Tryg said, I first avoided it but just had to have a look!

I'm afraid the OP is anticipating diminished job prospects; it is painful to be made obsolete.

I have had his tactics up to here and for what it is worth I am now forwarding his past unprofessional, unethical and demeaning communications with me to InFocus' corporate headquarters and his local BBB. It may do little good, given their current business situation, but Allen Fleener needs to be exposed for what he is. I'm sure I can predict his response as to how he was only expressing an opinion, etc. and he is sad it degenerated (meaning someone/many disagreed with the message and the terribly rude and crude delivery). Just read the 1st post and judge for yourselves.


Ray,

He may deserve some of the animosity that he seems to ask for, and he probably has you rightly irritated at him, but I might suggest that you exercise a little restraint in reporting him to Infocus or the BBB. While his methods appear to be disdainful he is just trying to make a buck.

You might regret your decision if your referral ends up being the straw that breaks his business with Infocus' back. Its entirely up to you what you do. I know that if it were me, personally, i sure would feel bad about it if the guy ended up losing his business.

Forceflow, have you seen the blacks of the Sharp 20k in high contrast mode in a good environment? Have you seen it in high brightness mode?

Imagine having it as bright as it is in high brightness mode and black levels as good as they are in high contrast mode, at the same time. Plus throw in a gennum processor, which is good enough if you arent going to need vertical stretch.

One drawback for some is that it doesnt have the Sharps CMS, which allows you to fine tune your colors (apparently much more accurately.) This part is a non-issue for me as i find that taming down the color setting does the trick for my tastes.

For many years to come quality HD just isn't happening. Noise is a big thing for me, I hate it more than anything else. With the Pearl I saw no noise whatsoever. I'm also not going to get either HD-DVD nor Blu-ray until there's a winner and not until whichever one wins figures out how to get rid of the excessive noise. I watched the movie Click on Blu-ray and then on DVD. That movie was touted as the reference standard of what the future has for Blu-ray. If that's the future I don't want any part of it! It didn't look like that at the theater. So its not about "its supposed to be there and is artistic". The DVD version was so much better. While watching the Blu-ray version I was so distracted by the abundant noise. The DVD version had none of that.

I guess someone need to be educated as the OP said! :D

Try blu-ray "Open Season". SUPER SHARP and HIGH RESOLUTION and ZERO noise (or grain). With a decent master and transfer, any noise (or grain) is IN THE SOURCE. And a good master source used for blu-ray transfer is usually MUCH BETTER than a nth generation print in a local theater. Meaning there will most likely show much MORE (fine) grain (if there is any in the source) on a good blu-ray transfer. DVD simply lack the resolution (and data bandwidth) to show the original fine grain in the source.

Btw, check the blu-ray discs quality ranking thread in the blu-ray software forum. "Click" ranks FAR from the top!

Get a cheap PS3. A perfect match to my Pearl! :)

regards,

Li On

Forceflow, have you seen the blacks of the Sharp 20k in high contrast mode in a good environment? Have you seen it in high brightness mode?

Imagine having it as bright as it is in high brightness mode and black levels as good as they are in high contrast mode, at the same time. Plus throw in a gennum processor, which is good enough if you arent going to need vertical stretch.

One drawback for some is that it doesnt have the Sharps CMS, which allows you to fine tune your colors (apparently much more accurately.) This part is a non-issue for me as i find that taming down the color setting does the trick for my tastes.

that is quite the summation! :D

I guess the more I read on AVS the more confused I become. That summary though puts many things in perspective. I really do require great black levels (spoiled from CRT).

From all I've read, if you tame down the colors using the color setting, it has adverse side effects.

I guess I should drive to a city that has an RS-1 (or an generous AVSForum member's home) and spend some quality time with the RS-1. I need to figure out if the colors are really as whacked as I hear (and if that bothers me, which I'm almost certain they will if they are as bad as I imagine: neon grass, sunburnt faces ala Mits CRT RPTVs).

If they aren't as bad -- great!

If they are, does messing with the color controls really create new problems that I will notice?

Thanks Catdaddy, I really appreciate the summation. :) I guess I will avoid AVSForum until I'm ready to make a purchase. :cool:

I guess I should drive to a city that has an RS-1 (or an generous AVSForum member's home) and spend some quality time with the RS-1. I need to figure out if the colors are really as whacked as I hear (and if that bothers me, which I'm almost certain they will if they are as bad as I imagine: neon grass, sunburnt faces ala Mits CRT RPTVs).

Very wise. They might be in short supply now, but I heard the Magnolias are going to carry the HD1, which is 99.9% the same thing, so it should be pretty easy to view one in a month or two (if you can wait that long). Otherwise, there _has_ to be a forum member somewhere near Chicago with an RS1...

As far as colors go: They bother some people, they don't bother me at all. My wife noticed immediately that the colors were strong, but didn't seem to mind particularly. This is another case where you just have to see for yourself and make your own decisions. If you find them "neon" and "sunburnt," I won't be offended :). I'll just be glad they don't strike me that way.

Wow, the fanboys are coming out :) Tryg says if you own a Ruby then there is no need to upgrade then I guess that seals it! I would NOT buy a Ruby to replace my current PJ so there is absolutely no reason to replace it with a RS1. Thanks Tryg, saved me a few bucks :) I'll be cancelling tomorrow (seriously). I remember the infamous Ruby threads after CEDIA a couple of years ago, it was the second coming. I saw it and the C3X, at that time, and the Ruby had its ass handed to it in most every category, still does. The Ruby fanboy pressure was extreme to anyone who did not see "the great PJ" (read the old thread - they are a hoot). This thread is deja vu all over again. I don't expect anyone who just paid a bunch of money for the RS1 to slam it, but some have slammed it, enough for me to wait.

I'd rather have a Ruby than C3X.

Dont blame me for canceling your order :)

I'd rather have a Ruby than C3X.

Dont blame me for canceling your order :)

I am not blaming, I am thanking you! :cool:

Remember when people were coming out of the wood work saying how flawed the Ruby was?

Now we use it as our reference to everything else... damn what a piece of junk ;)

I've complained about the colors on the RS1 but I'm very happy with the projector. For the price I paid I can afford to upgrade a year or two from now.

I've seen the sunburned faces, but this is usually due to the source being oversaturated. The colors really aren't bad unless you get that oversaturated source, and there are a fair amount of OS sources. Try Smallville HD DVDs. There is nothing I can do to make it look just a little OS without messing up the colors.

The colors are dead on from the factory and many correctly saturated sources still look fantastic. I think the only other projector that would come close in a not too distant price range would be the Sharp 20K. The Sharp will still cost you 50 percent more and it has its own set of problems. I'll stick with the RS1 for a while.

Remember when people were coming out of the wood work saying how flawed the Ruby was?

Now we use it as our reference to everything else... damn what a piece of junk ;)

I'm glad you and obviously others, think it is reference, its not - crt still has that throne. I still like DLP's punch and non use of DI, so my reference is a bit different than yours, and I think - quite a bit better ! :D
Now, on to finding the next great light hope ;)

Raymond - I would at least try and view the projector before you write it off.

I believe tryg was trying to tell the other poster that it might not be worth taking a big hit in the wallet to get the rs1 and ditch the ruby.

Numerous others did upgrade from the ruby and are very happy.

There's a phrase for this, "cognitive dissonance." People on both sides want to believe their product is the best, whether they buy them or sell them, and will emphasize any evidence that supports that belief. Often, people don't weigh evidence and come to conclusions, they come to conclusions and find the evidence that supports them. That's why we call them "people" and not "computers." The people who lose in this thread are the fence-sitters who may miss out on the opportunity to view a great picture at a bargain price because of this discussion. To them, I address the following words: SEE FOR YOURSELF. Whatever you decide, that's OK, but don't let yourself be scared or convinced by words from either side. Use your own eyes, not someone else's.

We now return you to your originally scheduled brouhaha already in progress.

Wise words! I am reminded of an experiment my daughter did for a High School project some years ago. She managed to recruit 50 people, ostensibly to determine whether people could really determine the sound difference between speaker cables. She had a setup with 16 gauge wire, monster cables, radio shack, etc. What she was really measuring was the role of expectations in perception. She told the groups she was switching cables, and told them which cable she was switching to, but she actually used only the 16 gauge wire. The results were startling! A number of people who were recognized as "experts," writers in the local newspaper on technology issues, owners of HT stores etc., made comments like, "If you can't tell the difference between that cable and the last one, you must be deaf! " Everyone familiar with the brand rated the "monsters" higher than the other cables. Of course, it was all perception as the only cables connected were the 16 gauge wires. The experiment has made me cautious about trusting my anyone's perceptions ever since!

BTW--she later repeated with a "blind" test with another group, this time switching cables, but not identifying which she was switching to. No one was able to reliably identify one cable brand from another, nor could any "best" sounding cable be identified. I guess the lesson is, if you truly need to believe A is better than B, you will likely see it that way...

Mike your right my mistake on the math. :(

As for another choice, I think the IN 78/SP 7210 are good they are cheaper than the JVC and have no color issues. They can be calibrated and are brighter. If rainbows are the problem then the choices are the SP 777. To get away from rainbows is not cheap when it comes to DLP. :)

What ever you choose it will ultimately be determined by the customers application needs and budget. I would NEVER recommend a unit that I could not calibrate as this flies in the face of logic and good video.

Ok Allen....I think it's been established that your business regarding sales of a particular brand of projectors has absolutely no bearing on your very informed and objective opinions regarding the performance of projectors that you don't sell...

Ok. Can you help me find a good reliable projector? I'm open to anything as long as it isn't made by Infocus...

You're right...that's not very nice. How bout any good native 1080p projector? No? ;)

Edit: Forgot to add...if I did wish to purchase (pay too much for) a thee chip 720p projector, I would certainly purchase it from from the truly informed and objective folks at AVS instead of from the type of condescending pricks found far too often in the B&M shops....after reading your posts, Allen, I'm sure many will decide the same.

That may sound harsh, but what do you expect when you dare open discussions with the unwashed masses that might have (cringe) ordered a projector or dared make a purchase that was not directed by a civilized person like yourself? ;)

Ok Allen....I think it's been established that your business regarding sales of a particular brand of projectors has absolutely no bearing on your very informed and objective opinions regarding the performance of projectors that you don't sell...

Ok. Can you help me find a good reliable projector? I'm open to anything as long as it isn't made by Infocus...

You're right...that's not very nice. How bout any good native 1080p projector? No? ;)

Edit: Forgot to add...if I did wish to purchase (pay too much for) a thee chip 720p projector, I would certainly purchase it from from the truly informed and objective folks at AVS instead of from the type of condescending pricks found far too often in the B&M shops....after reading your posts, Allen, I'm sure many will decide the same.

That may sound harsh, but what do you expect when you dare open discussions with the unwashed masses that might have (cringe) ordered a projector or dared make a purchase that was not directed by a civilized person like yourself? ;)

I have to agree with Allen -- there is no way I'd buy a projector that couldn't be calibrated. Heck, I have my own calibration tools. I like the idea of great on/off contrast without a DI, but I'd rather have worse on/off and a DI in a projector that can be calibrated. For instance, I'm thinking of purchasing the Epson machine (from overseas, where it's cheap), as it's half the price of the RS1, and I'll just wait until the RS2/RS3 or whatever allows calibration comes out. It depends on what you want from a projector, and I prefer the ability to calibrate one over other items.

I can't believe what I'm reading here..... All you Pearl/Ruby/JVS/Infocus people are just plain idiots for spending that kind of money on crap. For a little bit more you could have what I have and sell..... A real 35mm theater film projector and a true silver screen. Sure, the projector cost me $45k and every 45 minutes I have to stop, spend 35 minutes to rewind and then load the next reel, I of course can only show 35mm films (but that's just a minor problem) the color is true except for most of the films are in B&W and each movie costs about $5000 to $8000. Hey, but if you want a decent home theater might as well go with the best! What's another zero added on to the end of what you guys payed????


Humm, maybe I'm in the wrong forum, kind of like this thread.....

And Brain those "MONSTER" cables DID SOUND BETTER!!!!

Lastly I understand if you own one of the units I spoke of as not being accurate that you feel I was slamming or attacking you.
I want you to know this. It was not done in the spirit of meanness but rather one of education. We are all on a journey to home theater Nirvana. There is a huge learning curve to be overcome and during that process we may make some bad choices. That's life.


Guys, he's not trying to be mean by telling everyone who doesn't own an Infocus 777 made a bad decision. He's just trying to educate you about why you made a bad decision. He's just trying to help those who don't know any better. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :eek:

"Again... the 777 has no color wheel, no rainbows, and hopefully no queezy viewers."

Actually, three chip DLP can still have rainbows. That is a common misconception that three chip DPL eliminates all possibility of rainbows, it does not.

The reason it does not is because DLP pixels are binary. They are either full on or full off. The only way for them to have different levels of brightness between full on or full off is to dither the pixel. Turn it on and off very quickly to alter the perceived brightness level seen by the viewer.

Because of that binary nature and the dithering it is entirelly possible to still have rainbows with 3 chip DLP. For example it could occur when say one color of one one screen pixel is at 90% brightness and a different color of the same on screen pixel is only at 10%. There are times when one color component is full on while the other is off.

3 chip should greatly reduce the possibility of seeing RBE compared to single chip but it does not entirelly eliminate the possibility.

Not a theory, someone posted a picture of RBE on a three chip DLP here awhile back.

Shawn

Shawn,

You touch on a point about DLP that is little known in this market, tho widely known in the simulation area that I primarily deal in.

Another thing for everyone that has a DLP projector to try. Using HDMI or DVI input (an analog input may have analog signal noise present), pause a movie on a predominantly dark scene and take a look in the dark areas...you'll see pixels flickering and a low-level "noise" in the image...do the same on an RS1 or any D-ILA based projector and you'll see a totally static image, no noise, period, none, nada. Both single chip and 3-chip DLP employ spatial dithering at low IRE levels.

We go to extreme lengths to make sure we have a pristine digital signal path, spend fortunes on expensive cables and signal processors, only to have the projector add noise and artifacts to the image in the final link of the chain....hmmmmm!

Is the RS1 perfect, nope, it has issues, just like everything else out there, but I'd say the market is telling us they like the price/performance better than anything else out there right now...til the next big thing arrives!

Cheers,

"Again... the 777 has no color wheel, no rainbows, and hopefully no queezy viewers."

Actually, three chip DLP can still have rainbows. That is a common misconception that three chip DPL eliminates all possibility of rainbows, it does not.



Yep, I saw rainbow-like problems on a 3chip DLP and couldn't believe it. "Why the hell am I getting these image-breaking-up flashes when I move my eyes around the screen, just like the single chip DLPs?" I thought I was going crazy because 3chips weren't suppposed to have this issue. Looks like it's still possible.

Interesting to know. I've never seen RBE on any 3 chip machine.

We go to extreme lengths to make sure we have a pristine digital signal path
Cheers,
Tom,

How about getting JVC to make that "pristine" digital HDMI path work with 480i so I can enjoy SD DVD's with that Gennum processor! :D :D :D

What ever you choose it will ultimately be determined by the customers application needs and budget. I would NEVER recommend a unit that I could not calibrate as this flies in the face of logic and good video.

I agree, but the RS-1 is far from being a unit that cannot be calibrated. Even though it doesn't have standard RGB gains and offsets, excellent greyscale performance can be achieved with very low dE. While it could have a greater variety of gamma options, the default setting results in a smooth, proper curve. That brings us to the oversaturated primaries. While I feel that a CMS could certainly have been added in this price range (heck, the $2K Panasonic AE900 has one), it's certainly not common for a digital projector to have one. This is the one issue that I would advise potential customers of with the RS-1, as others are part of the discussion of differences between DLP and LCOS or LCD. Heck, the 7210 has green that's as undersaturated as the RS-1 is oversaturated.

Anyway, I'm not saying that the RS-1 is the only choice in it's price range, but it's a very good one, even if it does leave you with little to do to calibrate it. :D

Why on earth are you wanting to feed in 480i via HDMI??? Don't you have an HDDVD or BD player in your system to use for SD DVD playback?

Tom,

"...do the same on an RS1 or any D-ILA based projector and you'll see a totally static image, no noise, period, none, nada."

If only I could........

Shawn
(Member of the third batchers.....)

Shawn,

I feel your pain, my demo unit is in Las Vegas for NAB...

"Again... the 777 has no color wheel, no rainbows, and hopefully no queezy viewers."

Actually, three chip DLP can still have rainbows. That is a common misconception that three chip DPL eliminates all possibility of rainbows, it does not.


This is very good to know.

Tom's description of spatial dithering was very useful to me. I have said in a couple of other threads that one of the big impacts I have seen (switched from IF 7200) was the reduction of noise in dark scenes or solid patches of color, again mainly in dark scenes. Now I have a better understanding as to why - his description of the dithering noise sounds very much what I was seeing on the DLP, and why the RS1 image seems so static "quiet". In my case, this aspect of the RS1 performance is a big step forward.

How about getting JVC to make that "pristine" digital HDMI path work with 480i so I can enjoy SD DVD's with that Gennum processor!


Why on earth are you wanting to feed in 480i via HDMI???

Given the processor in the RS1 is one of the most attractive attributes of this PJ, the request that it functions correctly is very legit. :ears open:

Wise words! I am reminded of an experiment my daughter did for a High School project some years ago. She managed to recruit 50 people, ostensibly to determine whether people could really determine the sound difference between speaker cables. She had a setup with 16 gauge wire, monster cables, radio shack, etc. What she was really measuring was the role of expectations in perception. She told the groups she was switching cables, and told them which cable she was switching to, but she actually used only the 16 gauge wire. The results were startling! A number of people who were recognized as "experts," writers in the local newspaper on technology issues, owners of HT stores etc., made comments like, "If you can't tell the difference between that cable and the last one, you must be deaf! " Everyone familiar with the brand rated the "monsters" higher than the other cables. Of course, it was all perception as the only cables connected were the 16 gauge wires. The experiment has made me cautious about trusting my anyone's perceptions ever since!

BTW--she later repeated with a "blind" test with another group, this time switching cables, but not identifying which she was switching to. No one was able to reliably identify one cable brand from another, nor could any "best" sounding cable be identified. I guess the lesson is, if you truly need to believe A is better than B, you will likely see it that way...


Your daughter is a very intelligent person... you should be very proud of her. Her work proves that Monster Cable and their ilk are nothing more than thieves.

Has it been proven that the problem lies with the RS1/Gennum implementation and not the particular output mode of the DVD player? I have looked at several SD DVD players into the RS1 via component analog at both 480i and 480p and 480i looks far better because of the Gennum de-interlacing.

I haven't tried 480i via HDMI because it's pretty rare, but in comparing 480P out vs 1080i/p out from an HDDVD or BD player, the latter looked much better.

Has it been proven that the problem lies with the RS1/Gennum implementation and not the particular output mode of the DVD player? I have looked at several SD DVD players into the RS1 via component analog at both 480i and 480p and 480i looks far better because of the Gennum de-interlacing.

I haven't tried 480i via HDMI because it's pretty rare, but in comparing 480P out vs 1080i/p out from an HDDVD or BD player, the latter looked much better.

I thought this was an overscan problem. If it is, it's unlikely that all DVD players used to send 480p to the RS-1 output an overscanned image. It's most likely the RS-1 is doing the overscan. Or, is this a "jaggies" issue?

Why is spatial dithering noise easier to see in dark scenes?

spatial dithering is only done in the low IRE areas, not in higher level parts of the image.

This leads in to the issue for now, and who knows when if ever, there is no easy way to adjust the gray scale on this unit. So it suffers out of the box and will most likely get worse as the lamp ages or is changed. :mad:



Why are Allen's views on the RS1 and the nature of this thread a surprise to anyone? Allen is an ISF tech. The RS1 can't be calibrated by an ISF tech.

Not good for business. :rolleyes:

This is very good to know.
The number of people who could actually perceive this would probably be extremely small. Moreover, people's claims of perception would, in some cases, be affected by "expectation effect", otherwise known as the Hawthorne effect. Considering all the hoopla of RBEs, and claims of "golden eyes, to perform an objective test of perceptibility threshold you would have to do a double (or at least single) blind test...no pun intended (ok, maybe a little).

Why is spatial dithering noise easier to see in dark scenes?

Because the mirrors are flickering. (trying to decide what color to produce). Just like rainbows, it's a non issue most of the time.

A real 35mm theater film projector and a true silver screen. Sure, the projector cost me $45k and every 45 minutes I have to stop, spend 35 minutes to rewind and then load the next reel
Of course if you can spend $45k on a projector, you can also afford a platter system. ;)

Of course if you can spend $45k on a projector, you can also afford a platter system. ;)

Unlike the HT industry very little has changed over the years with cinema projection. If you do your homework you can buy used, complete 35mm system with full play for 10k or less. Portables can be had for 1k or less. I wish more forum members would buy a portable if anything to play a reel of trailers ( trailers are $2 each or sometimes free) just for reference to compare to our video systems. 35mm done right will surprise you and could spoil you as soon you will see some major short coming in our video systems. Mainly the source.

So there you have it. Yes I am an InFocus dealer. But I can be an JVC dealer too. For now I will use my informed observations to offer an opposing view.

Thanks for your understanding. The money you save may be your own. ;)
On a personal level I understand the hurt. At least you were honest enough to state you were a competing dealer. Progress and competition create collateral damage.

Should the whole world's technological progress stop and go back to 1280*720 resolution? Now that would make even more dealers mad:)

The fact is our eyes resolution is far greater than even 1920*1080. The pixels to be as small as possible when projected onto a huge screen.


So where are the true 1920*1080p DLP chips and products? Or is TI just going to roll over and play dead?

Regarding your facts.

I have been following all of the RS-1 threads and I own one that I have now put 178 hours on.

I have read that people are noticing more grain. I have not read anyone say that the RS-1 introduces grain/noise.
Them "people" is Bob Sorel. His lack of knowledge causes false issues to be raised frequently. Its especially bad when other forums quote his misinformation.

The fact is our eyes resolution is far greater than even 1920*1080.
You are right.

For example, at 1x screen width, a 20/20 eye can resolve 3440 pixels, well beyond our current 1920 projectors. A 20/20 eye starts to fail the task all the way back at 1.75x screen width. There you can make out 1966 pixels.

I'm sure they don't know this to 4 significant figures, but that's what the table says.

Interestingly, even though a 20/20 eye is capable of this, most people don't notice the added detail beyond a certain point.

35mm is well beyond 2k. During a private screening I could walk right up to the screen within 2 feet and there was enough detail to watch the movie at this distance not that anyone would. It was like looking at a real photograph. Our electronic displays and source are no where near this yet.
From the recommended viewing distance our electronic displays are convincing.

Them "people" is Bob Sorel. His lack of knowledge causes false issues to be raised frequently. Its especially bad when other forums quote his misinformation.

Quit picking on the poor guy. It's a full time job for me defending him and I just haven't the energy to keep up.

What specifically do you mean by "misinformation", can you name one..or more that I'm not aware of ?:)

So where are the true 1920*1080p DLP chips and products? Or is TI just going to roll over and play dead?
What do you mean by this? There are several true 1920x1080p DLP projectors available.

I can't believe no one commented on this!

In response to this request by several forum members:
YES indeed, what projector would you recommend for 6200.00 , or less?....inquiring minds want to know.
CHEERS, TC

Allen had this to say:
As for another choice, I think the IN 78/SP 7210 are good they are cheaper than the JVC and have no color issues. They can be calibrated and are brighter.
Seriously? The 7210 is over 2 years old now and the IN78 was released to the deafening sound of crickets... way too late for a DC3 projector and way over priced. I don't think a single review site even bothered with the IN78. And you would recommend both of them without hesitation over the JVC RS1? If so, your credibility is completely in the toilet and your bias as an Infocus dealer becomes plainly obvious.
-Matt

What do you mean by this? There are several true 1920x1080p DLP projectors available.

Ya - I've got one myself!

Why on earth are you wanting to feed in 480i via HDMI??? Don't you have an HDDVD or BD player in your system to use for SD DVD playback?
Are you saying the built-in deinterlacing in the RS-1 is inferior to that of an external HD-DVD or Blu-ray player? :D

Has it been proven that the problem lies with the RS1/Gennum implementation and not the particular output mode of the DVD player? I have looked at several SD DVD players into the RS1 via component analog at both 480i and 480p and 480i looks far better because of the Gennum de-interlacing.
Yep - I can feed the 480i HDMI output of an Oppo 970 to an external processor, and it works 100% correctly. But the same player to the RS1 results in a stair-stepping effect.

Andy K.

What do you mean by this? There are several true 1920x1080p DLP projectors available.
Yup, there certainly are. Once again it is reincarnate posting misinformation. Maybe he should try spending more time getting his facts straight rather than putting all of his energy into his personal vendetta against me.

Are you saying the built-in deinterlacing in the RS-1 is inferior to that of an external HD-DVD or Blu-ray player?
The ReonVX used in the Toshiba XA2 and new Samsung seems to be as good or better in many areas than the GennumVXP. The CII (+SDI) and the XA2 were compared (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=782887) directly.

Yep - I can feed the 480i HDMI output of an Oppo 970 to an external processor, and it works 100% correctly. But the same player to the RS1 results in a stair-stepping effect.
The RS1 can do 480i through component. Which will be the first thing I will try on my Arcam dv27a. I am very interested to see for myself how much the XA2 can improve over the dv27a + GennumVXP.

Why on earth are you wanting to feed in 480i via HDMI??? Don't you have an HDDVD or BD player in your system to use for SD DVD playback?
Yes, I do have a HD-DVD player. I bought the A2 rather than the XA2 only because the JVC specifications say the RS-1 accepts 480i via HDMI. I didn't see any reason to pay for a duplicate VP since the RS-1 had the Gennum to scale and deinterlace 480i. BIG MISTAKE! The RS-1 does accept 480i via HDMI but it sure as hell doesn't handle it correctly! I am now stuck with taking a loss on the A2 and upgrading to the XA2 or continuing to use component only for SD DVD viewing. I now must either spend more $ on the HD-DVD upgrade or forget my simplified cabling, switching and remote scheme. :mad:

I've got the A2 and have not tried it with the RS1 yet, but I did try the upconversion from standard DVD with my G15 and to me it looked like a better picture for the few discs I tried than my SDI RS91 Panny through iScan HD+. Just saying that the A2 has pretty nice upcoversion, though maybe not as great as XA2.

I've got the A2 and have not tried it with the RS1 yet, but I did try the upconversion from standard DVD with my G15 and to me it looked like a better picture for the few discs I tried than my SDI RS91 Panny through iScan HD+. Just saying that the A2 has pretty nice upcoversion, though maybe not as great as XA2.
Ron,
To really see the difference, you need a "torture test" DVD like the HQV Benchmark DVD. When playing that, you can clearly see the difference between the A2 doing the upscaling and a great processor like the Gennum. Feed the RS-1 480i over component from the A2 and it cleanly passes the "jaggies" test. Feed it upscaled output from the A2 and it fails miserably over both component and HDMI. Feed it 480i via HDMI, and you get a REALLY LOUSY IMAGE!

I am going to live with whatever happens with the RS-1 because the good far outweighs the bad. But, I am going to be REALLY irritated over the 480i/HDMI issue.

The only other issue I find more than mildly irritating is the rainbow problem with black and white bars in an image. This IS NOT a mis-convergence issue as has been suggested by some knowledgeable people. A number of users have reported this and recorded segments that include it for repeated viewing. My personal acid test was viewing the ref uniforms in the NCAA basketball games with both the RS-1 and my lowly HS10, alternately covering one lens. I NEVER saw this anomaly in the HS10 image and ALWAYS saw it in the RS-1 image.

Before some one asks, Yes, I can live with the colors! I may be blind in one eye and can't see out of the other but the "slight" over saturation rarely bothers me.

I am 100% satisfied with my RS-1. It represents a great value for the price I paid for it. Yes, there may be issues that could be resolved in a more expensive PJ, but I would not have paid more, because those issues aren't significant enough for me to pay for their resolution. On the other end, I haven't seen a projector at a lower price point that I would have been happy to watch night after night.

I think they found the sweet spot - for me at least. It seems that I must be part of a fairly large demographic - there are quite a few of us for whom the RS-1 is the sweet spot.

[To be completely honest, if this PJ hadn't come out, I would have bought the Sony, and I probably would have been happy with it.]

It always boggles my mind how upset people appear to get on here and how adamant they get on their position.
Look, the RS1/HD1 isn't the end all but it is a very nice projector. People should decide what is important to them and make decisions from there. There never will be a "perfect" projector until all content is created in native 1080p. That's not going to happen. People still do and will watch 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, & 1080p conent of film and video based material.

Comparing these 2 pieces isn't really fair as they are in different price categories but since people have been doing it I'll add:
I've read people thinking Home Theater Mag was off their rocker for naming the SP777 Best All Around Projector for 2006 with all the 1080 stuff that came out. You can say what you will about HT Mag but they are fairly knowledgeable. Yes, the RS1 wasn't out in 2006. But, a number of 1080 DLP, LCD, and Sony were out.

It is nearly impossible to find a place to do it but I'd recommend trying to see a SP777 side by side with the RS1. You'll quickly see the ~$4K retail price difference is more than justified. Watch film content both bright and dark. Then watch it with broadcast HD of all forms 1080i/720p and shows/sports. Then try 480 content through DVD and cable/dish. I'll bet money on which one you like better all around. Again, not a fair fight though. A $10K retail vs $6K retail. It would be more appropriate to compare a single chip 1080 DLP to the RS1. Frankly, I'd recommend the same comparison for any 2 projectors. Good luck finding a place to do it. Also, if you are seeing it in a completely dark theater, have them simulate the lighting in yours if your theater is not/will not be completely dark.

The JVC does 1 thing well - It looks good with 1080 HD-DVD/Blu-ray content in a dark room. If HD movies are what is important to you and you have a completely light controlled theater, then buy it. Inherent in LCOS, it's soft. Great for movies as it looks film like. Not so great for other content.
But - the warts - it's not very bright to overcome ambient light in the room. There are a lot of people who don't want or can't have their theater completely dark. If you like watching HD sports you'll notice some smearing in fast moving motion not to mention the resolution difference if it's FOX or ABC/ESPN (720p) will make it that much worse. Also, softness usually is not preferred when watching sports.
Lastly, similar to LCD, over time the imager will degrade due to the prolonged heat from the lamp. With heavy use, you'll notice some splotching on the screen in 1-2 years. This can't be fixed. With normal use you shouldn't notice it until 2-3 years. Call Sony or JVC and ask them if you'll be covered by the warranty should this happen to you. (the answer is no)
I know of a country club that had the Pearl which was running 12 hours a day. After only about 6 months the spotting began to appear. Sony told them, "sorry, it's not warranted for that."
If you're one of those people who upgrades your projector every 2-3 years don't worry about it. If you're not, worry.

Somebody at AVS needs to run an IP check to see if Videobill is really Allen Fleener!

Somebody at AVS needs to run an IP check to see if Videobill is really Allen Fleener!

I don't think we need further verification.

If you read Vendor Fleener's posts on another line he sells, Theta Digital, you'd detect a similar highbrow disregard for those products that . . . well, those products he doesn't sell.

The sub-basement's the limit.


Nick :cool:

There is one place I guarantee that the 777 is better ...

Somebody at AVS needs to run an IP check to see if Videobill is really Allen Fleener!
I thought the same thing by the beginning of paragraph 2... although I wasn't going to say anything until I saw your post. :D

Lastly, similar to LCD, over time the imager will degrade due to the prolonged heat from the lamp.

Abject lie. We have many JVC units with tens of thousands of hours on them with no evidence of this whatsoever.

BB

Abject lie. We have many JVC units with tens of thousands of hours on them with no evidence of this whatsoever.

BB
Yeah... this guy's extrapolating from other technologies, bending the truth double and stating the results as incontrovertable fact. He's making stuff up and talking through his hat.

Now... that Sony that had been on 12 hours a day... that I could believe may lead to trouble that Sony didn't bargain for. That's a lot of baking.

Somebody at AVS needs to run an IP check to see if Videobill is really Allen Fleener!

the prose is very similar. How many on AVS own or even know about/tout the 777?

the prose is very similar. How many on AVS own or even know about/tout the 777?
AND it's his first post!

Videobill's first post is to bash the RS1. Most new members would be asking for info, help, and suggestions. He might as well change his user to videofleener.

Everyone has their own opinion as I do. Obviously a number of you don't agree with mine which is great.
My point was, check it out for yourself - then decide. Yes, I threw my own opinion in there when I did the same thing. Perhaps you won't see the same things I did. All of us probably could look at the same images and come to different conclusions.
With the JVC or any projector, try to get a side by side shootout with another projector with all different different content in a similar environment to your own and decide what looks best to you.
Also, if you don't believe me about degrading imager over time, try calling them as I suggest and ask if it would be under warranty if that happened. I did. They danced around and basicly said it isn't likely to happen but they wouldn't say it would be covered under warranty.

For some reason I just wouldn't feel compelled to do a direct comparison of a 1080p pj with 15,000:1 contrast ratio vs a 720p pj with a 1800:1 contrast ratio (this is less than my Dwin).


But that's just me.....

Hey VideoBill:

Here's a tip:

Don't buy anything from Allen Fleener.

Nick :cool:

Hey VideoBill:

Here's a tip:

Don't buy anything from Allen Fleener.

Nick :cool:

Priceless!

The RS-1 isn't perfect, but it doesn't have "major warts". If there were a better projector for under $10k I would buy it....

As a previous CRT owner and now as a Ruby/ISCO 3 owner for a year my question is this:

Forget about the fact that the Ruby retailed at $10,000 last year or that the RS-1 retails at such and such.... even OVER 10K, what else would I buy at $15,000 that would outperform an RS-1? Please answer me that because I would drop $15,000 for a projector that outperformed the RS-1... Seriously, please answer me that....

I happen to be one who has come from higher priced projectors down to the RS1. I have the Sharp 20K, as well as the Sim2 C3X (which I just sold) and am currently using the RS1 full time.

It is amazing to me, how strong the words are describing, what has boiled down to very small differences between these projectors. This wasn't the case a few years ago, but this is a testament to the achievement of the RS1, that it favorably compares to much more expensive projectors.

The Sharp 20k, and the C3X have some advantages over the RS1, but they are not huge, and relate more to the nature of your requirements, rather than them being a "better" projector. The RS1, also has its advantages, and short comings, but throws an incredible image, not just for the price, but even compared to these more expensive projectors.

I think we have reached a point, where the differences are small enough to be preferences, and not absolute superiority of one unit over the other. From my experience, I can say the following:

If you need high output, for large, low gain, or perfed screens, go with a three chip DLP, such as the C3X.

If you want the absolute greatest color accuracy, and ability to adjust it, along with the greatest ansi cr, for 3d images in the brightest scenes, are not bothered by rainbows, and are willing to use a smaller screen, or high gain screen, go with the Sharp 20K.

If you want the best black level, along with punchy images in dark scenes, along with a noise free, smooth image, for the best price, go with the RS1.

Make your choice, based on your requirements, and what aspect of these projectors are most important to you, but please, knock off the absolute, exaggerated claims of superiority of one projector over the other. :rolleyes:

Everyone has their own opinion as I do. Obviously a number of you don't agree with mine which is great.
My point was, check it out for yourself - then decide. Yes, I threw my own opinion in there when I did the same thing. Perhaps you won't see the same things I did. All of us probably could look at the same images and come to different conclusions.
With the JVC or any projector, try to get a side by side shootout with another projector with all different different content in a similar environment to your own and decide what looks best to you.
Also, if you don't believe me about degrading imager over time, try calling them as I suggest and ask if it would be under warranty if that happened. I did. They danced around and basicly said it isn't likely to happen but they wouldn't say it would be covered under warranty.

Interesting that Videobill doesn't even respond to the charge that he is really Allen Fleener in disguise...perhaps it is so transparent and self-evident that it is not even worth contesting?

If you need high output, for large, low gain, or perfed screens, go with a three chip DLP, such as the C3X.

If you want the absolute greatest color accuracy, and ability to adjust it, along with the greatest ansi cr, for 3d images in the brightest scenes, are not bothered by rainbows, and are willing to use a smaller screen, or high gain screen, go with the Sharp 20K.

If you want the best black level, along with punchy images in dark scenes, along with a noise free, smooth image, for the best price, go with the RS1.

Make your choice, based on your requirements, and what aspect of these projectors are most important to you, but please, knock off the absolute, exaggerated claims of superiority of one projector over the other.

I would have to say that you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I didn't not buy an RS1 because of any perceived lack of picture quality. I didn't buy one because it lacked features I needed to make it work in my specific theater. Namely a wide angle lens, power zoom and focus and the ability to light up a lower gain larger screen.

Nicely put.

I happen to be one who has come from higher priced projectors down to the RS1. I have the Sharp 20K, as well as the Sim2 C3X (which I just sold) and am currently using the RS1 full time.

It is amazing to me, how strong the words are describing, what has boiled down to very small differences between these projectors. This wasn't the case a few years ago, but this is a testament to the achievement of the RS1, that it favorably compares to much more expensive projectors.

The Sharp 20k, and the C3X have some advantages over the RS1, but they are not huge, and relate more to the nature of your requirements, rather than them being a "better" projector. The RS1, also has its advantages, and short comings, but throws an incredible image, not just for the price, but even compared to these more expensive projectors.

I think we have reached a point, where the differences are small enough to be preferences, and not absolute superiority of one unit over the other. From my experience, I can say the following:

If you need high output, for large, low gain, or perfed screens, go with a three chip DLP, such as the C3X.

If you want the absolute greatest color accuracy, and ability to adjust it, along with the greatest ansi cr, for 3d images in the brightest scenes, are not bothered by rainbows, and are willing to use a smaller screen, or high gain screen, go with the Sharp 20K.

If you want the best black level, along with punchy images in dark scenes, along with a noise free, smooth image, for the best price, go with the RS1.

Make your choice, based on your requirements, and what aspect of these projectors are most important to you, but please, knock off the absolute, exaggerated claims of superiority of one projector over the other. :rolleyes:

Very well put. I agree 100% with everything that you've stated.

Phil, do you use (or plan to use) a scaler or VP?

I ask this because giving an opinion depends somewhat on circumstances. Many will use their PJ directly from the source. Results may then vary.

What I am saying is that maybe you meant "coming down from ... to an RS1 + scaler". ;)

Make your choice, based on your requirements, and what aspect of these projectors are most important to you, but please, knock off the absolute, exaggerated claims of superiority of one projector over the other. :rolleyes:

This is the crux of what I object to during PJ discussions. I'm glad to have heard your opinion as you've owned very good PJs (recent PJs).

Phil, do you use (or plan to use) a scaler or VP?

I ask this because giving an opinion depends somewhat on circumstances. Many will use their PJ directly from the source. Results may then vary.

What I am saying is that maybe you meant "coming down from ... to an RS1 + scaler". ;)

I was already using a scaler, so it was just a matter of changing projectors. I have run Blu-Ray and HD-DVD directly into the RS1, and the results are virtually indistinguishable from running it through a scaler. In some aspects, even better, because you can use 1080/24, where my scaler doesn't play nice with that. On the other hand, if the saturation issue bothers you, as far as I know, right now, the only way to resolve it is with a scaler.

This is the crux of what I object to during PJ discussions. I'm glad to have heard your opinion as you've owned very good PJs (recent PJs).

Exactly right.

And if you have followed Phil's posts over the years, it is pretty evident that he calls 'em like he sees 'em, good, bad and the ugly!

He does seem to have a fair amount of bad luck with CE devices though. :eek:

I was already using a scaler, so it was just a matter of changing projectors. I have run Blu-Ray and HD-DVD directly into the RS1, and the results are virtually indistinguishable from running it through a scaler. In some aspects, even better, because you can use 1080/24, where my scaler doesn't play nice with that. On the other hand, if the saturation issue bothers you, as far as I know, right now, the only way to resolve it is with a scaler.
Thanks for that, hope you will continue to have a lot of fun with it! ;)

I happen to be one who has come from higher priced projectors down to the RS1. I have the Sharp 20K, as well as the Sim2 C3X (which I just sold) and am currently using the RS1 full time.

It is amazing to me, how strong the words are describing, what has boiled down to very small differences between these projectors. This wasn't the case a few years ago, but this is a testament to the achievement of the RS1, that it favorably compares to much more expensive projectors.

The Sharp 20k, and the C3X have some advantages over the RS1, but they are not huge, and relate more to the nature of your requirements, rather than them being a "better" projector. The RS1, also has its advantages, and short comings, but throws an incredible image, not just for the price, but even compared to these more expensive projectors.

I think we have reached a point, where the differences are small enough to be preferences, and not absolute superiority of one unit over the other. From my experience, I can say the following:

If you need high output, for large, low gain, or perfed screens, go with a three chip DLP, such as the C3X.

If you want the absolute greatest color accuracy, and ability to adjust it, along with the greatest ansi cr, for 3d images in the brightest scenes, are not bothered by rainbows, and are willing to use a smaller screen, or high gain screen, go with the Sharp 20K.

If you want the best black level, along with punchy images in dark scenes, along with a noise free, smooth image, for the best price, go with the RS1.

Make your choice, based on your requirements, and what aspect of these projectors are most important to you, but please, knock off the absolute, exaggerated claims of superiority of one projector over the other.

I hate to re-post this yet again, but this is by far the most useful post I have read in a long time.

Assuming the RS-1 is similar in overall lumen output compared to the Ruby, I think there is no need to go to a DLP just for the increased lumen output. I use a 10 foot wide 2.35 screen and am perfectly hapy with the Ruby at 350 hours/1 year later. So I would expect that I would be equally happy with the RS-1 assuming the light output is similar. I use the Studiotek 1.3 gain screen as well.

So unless you need to go bigger than 10 foot wide screen, why go to DLP? This thread seems to be more about DLP vs SXRD than anything else. I'm just happy I prefer the advantages of SXRD over DLP becasue it just happens to cost less. I know I mentioned I'd drop $15,000 on a projector, but I would drop $25,000 on a projector if it was worth the improvement. Problem is that nobody makes a projector that is 'overall' better than the RS-1 (currently) regardless of price, at least in the performance area that I am looking for (on/off contrast, black levels, shadow detail, and overall image quality).

I'm always looking to spend more money for a better projector, the problem is that I have yet to see a DLP picture that I prefer over something like the Ruby or RS-1. Maybe some 3 chip 1080p DLP will change my mind, but until they get the on/off contrast, black levels, shadow detail, and overall image quality I find with SXRD, I'm just not too happy... I like to sit close to a large picture and I also do no like seeing the individual pixels on a DLP....

It is nice that both DLP and SXRD continue to close in on each other, each improving on their weakenesses. At this time, there is nothing for me to buy, regardless of price, than an RS-1. Maybe in 6 months there will be something to improve upon the RS-1 from JVC or something from Sony, The Diamond.... or maybe some 3 Chip 1080 DLP will come out that somehow can elimiate the pixelation I see at similar distances that I do not see with SXRD (and get similar black level performance).... but right now, the RS-1 seems to be the best overall projector regardless of price...

Would love to buy a 2538 x 1080 projector with extra horizontal pixels to eliminate the need for expensive and distortion/degradation inducing anamorphic lenses. Not only that the extra horizontal pixels would allow us to have maximum lumen output on both 2.35 and 1.85, 1.78, etc... Simpley stretch the mage horizontally on the chip and actually use thechips pixels ratehr than a lens. Much more lumens for 2.35 than vertical strecth alone + anamorhic lens. 2538 x 1080 panels would allow added lumens for both vertical strecth + horizontal!!!

Please JVC and Sony, please make 2.35 aspect pannels because we can eliminate the need for anamorphic lens...

My own projector Odyssey over the past few months:

Sony Qualia 004

Sony Pearl

Sharp XV-Z20000

These followed a contented period with a NEC XG1352LC, along with a Faroudja processor.

One point of observation: Image quality with any projector is most highly influenced by the source. HD is tops, and looks great with anything. Good DVD transfers are next. Great transfers look great on nearly anything, while bad transfers really can't be helped much by any projector.

Second point of observation: While the Qualia is best of the lot that I've had/seen (and I've seen the Ruby, had the Pearl, though not the RS-1), I keep hearkening back to that $3,000 lens that is needed for the Qualia. It probably is elementary that optics play a large role in image quality, and this is the area where plummeting prices can't keep up. The technology might be cheaper, but the necessary lens still costs the same amount.

I may yet get an RS-1, but I'm pleased enough with the Sharp that I don't really feel the need.

Free's thread on the incremental differences between projectors matches my own experience. Our beloved forum discussions often amount to the significance of how many angels dance on the head of a pin.

Nick :cool:

Another lame OP/thread started by someone deciding to act like a child (implying people who like the RS1 just don't know what a good image is) and trying to push what he sells. You know, when I was a child I used to think adults were awesome and so smart and all this...now that I have been adult for many years I see that many adults are no more special than children and act the same way. Sad...

One thing I found funny is implying the RS1 image is soft. HUH.

The reality is any of these higher end PJs will provide a great image and it comes down to whatever you may prefer. Trashing another PJ and those who own it is outright silly and embarrasses me as a human being.

All I know is my RS1 produces a great image and it is by no means perfect (and anyone who tries to imply that is kidding themselves) and if someone feels its shortcomings are deal breakers then hey, that's cool. They have other great projectors to choose from.

Second point of observation: While the Qualia is best of the lot that I've had/seen (and I've seen the Ruby, had the Pearl, though not the RS-1), I keep hearkening back to that $3,000 lens that is needed for the Qualia. It probably is elementary that optics play a large role in image quality, and this is the area where plummeting prices can't keep up. The technology might be cheaper, but the necessary lens still costs the same amount.

I agree about the lens. This is where JVC can charge more for a similar model with better optics and the other features everyone wants. This model will take longer to develop and also cost a lot more. If it happens I may upgrade, but I'm happy we got a cheaper model now. I think JVC did the best they could in the time frame they had. Adding anything else would have made it cost more and taken more time.

Maybe some 3 chip 1080p DLP will change my mind, but until they get the on/off contrast, black levels, shadow detail, and overall image quality I find with SXRD, I'm just not too happy... I like to sit close to a large picture and I also do no like seeing the individual pixels on a DLP....

We are there already. I have to get right up to the screen to see any pixels on my dVision. 1080p DLP has no screen door from even uncomfortably close distances.

I need to be within 18 inches to see screen door on my 1080p DLPs. Its a non issue.

I think, too, that most of the differences are incremental but what is not incremental is the 15,000 to 1 native contrast ratio. Sure, the Sharp may do Color better, and yes the Ruby is more quiet, and the Pearl is very attractive at its price, but all in all after having spent a considerable amount of time with all of them hands down the best picture, to me, was the RS1s.

To some people, those with 40/20 vision for example, the sharpness between the units may not be as incremental, the Color Management (or lack thereof) might be more important, to some with lots of ambient light - brightness might be the biggest determiner, who knows. In the end youll have to see them for yourself, look at your wallet, your screen size, your gain, your amount of light control, and check your eyes.

For my situation, of all those projectors mentioned, it wasnt even close. If it was close, I would have gotten the most cost efficient.

What do you mean by this? There are several true 1920x1080p DLP projectors available.
But at what price? TI needs to compete for once. Why can't they flood the marketplace (with true 1920 DLPs) as they do with rear projectors and their 1920*1080 wobulated chips? Or with their inexpensive 1280*720 chips?

There is not to much profit in the 1280*720 front projectors anymore ($13K down to $3K). So where is the flood of true 1920*1080 front projectors to restore profitability? Are the Sharp and Marantz competitive today? No.
There is a gapping hole which TI needs to fill, but for whatever reason, chooses not to. They need an exciting, affordable statement product just as the Pearl and JVC were or are today. Did they quit upgrading the performance of DLP technology because there is nothing left to improve? Where is HD5?

The Optoma and Benq do not qualify as being introduced overpriced and with issues. The price drop was too little to late. TI could only react to the huge drop in sales. What is their response going to be? Were is Joe Kane and Samsung with a killer display? Hello? Anything?

Quit picking on the poor guy.
Because this "poor guy" mischaracterizes his observations. In science this is a fatal flaw. At AVS forum this lack of understanding causes those who are learning the basics to be led astray.
He is good (like a parrot) at repeating what others have posted (and then taking credit for it himself!).
From his posts I judge him as spiteful and an impediment to reporting picture quality progress, so how can I show mercy? He goes against the principles for which I (and AVS Science) stand for.

That being said huge picture quality progress is being made especially by JVC for front projectors, Samsung for LCD flat panels, the television networks for their broadcasts, MicroSoft and Toshiba (and now even Sony/Blu-ray) for the HD disc quality. Special mention goes to Da-Lite with their retroreflective screens. (They should be nominated for the Emmy's!)

The convergence between computers and television is finally occurring (allowing 1:1 pixel mapping) . The all digital (read HDMI) receivers are about to flood the marketplace. Its like a perfect solar eclipse.

So as a consumer I am happier than ever! However I'm glad not to be a competitor to these companies, as they have earned their leadership position with superior technology.

There is so much good occurring yet we miss it. Instead, here we get the inside-out universe according to Bob. The only man in the world who did his best (in vain) to trash the revolutionary JVC RS1.*


* It wasn't just his own (supposedly) defective unit either as he saw several others too. He mis-reported that they all looked just as bad. Quack:)

Do yourself a favor and quite defending such a losing cause. Let Bob learn to be responsible for his own actions. That would be progress too!

I should feel bad about my RS1, but I'm still infatuated!!! I love it, what shortcomings there might be :) Has been a true winner whatever material I've shoved its way!

Because this "poor guy" mischaracterizes his observations.
No I haven't. Just because you say it doesn't make it so. I report it as I see it. You just don't like what I see.
In science this is a fatal flaw. At AVS forum this lack of understanding causes those who are learning the basics to be led astray.
This is a forum, not a science class. I have NEVER made any claims of being anything other than an enthusiast, just like the majority of people here. It is YOU that continues to mischaracterize my posts saying that I am claiming some sort of knowledge beyond what I report. That is YOUR problem, not mine.
He is good (like a parrot) at repeating what others have posted (and then taking credit for it himself!).
Oh, but when you repeat something that you read from a reviewer or on a web site, are you not doing EXACTLY the same thing? We all learn from each other. There ar very few of us here in this forum that are true innovators...The rest of us are just "parrots" as you call them.
From his posts I judge him as spiteful and an impediment to reporting picture quality progress, so how can I show mercy?
Spiteful? What planet are you from? And if you call accurately reporting what I see on my setup as an "impediment to reporting picture quality progress" then you are truly a deluded individual. I report what I see, and if you don't like, then that's just tough. I am not about to lie about things just to please your warped sense of values.
He goes against the principles for which I (and AVS Science) stand for.
How dare you put your name and AVScience into the same sentence! You are exactly the opposite of what AVScience stands for. You post all the time just to satisfy your personal agenda (like your hatred of Sony and me, for instance) , and rarely do you do ANYTHING in a positive light. You insult people, poke fun at them, and don't even get your facts straight when doing so. You are not AVScience material and should be banned from this site!
* It wasn't just his own (supposedly) defective unit either as he saw several others too. He mis-reported that they all looked just as bad. Quack
Once again totally misquoting me. I reported that the issues I saw with the RS-1's picture were not the result of the defective condition of my unit (and I was correct). I also reported seeing ONE other unit and reported that the issues I saw were the same (and they were)...so much for you getting any facts straight. I also reported SEVERAL TIMES that despite these issues that the RS-1 provided the best picture quality I have seen to date. You are truly a sick individual.
Let Bob learn to be responsible for his own actions.
Responsible for what? Reporting what I see? Maybe I should just lie about everything and tell everyone that all is peaches and cream. Now that would be doing the forum an injustice, but as long as it agrees with your assessment, then I guess all would be fine, heh?

__________________
Warning/Disclaimer! The above post has not passed SARCASM* requirements. It is strictly intended for entertainment purposes only.

*Subjected to Authentic REINCARNATE Certification, Approval, Scrutiny, or Measurement

My post in March:

Now that folks are beginning to get the DLA-RS1, I predict the following timeline will take place:
> March 07: 100's of posts stating that this is the best projector ever. Films mentioned: Sin City, Star Wars (Sith), Dark City, to show off black levels, minor complaints concerning low lumens. Tryg has every 10th post.
> April 07: complaints begin to appear, some units mysteriously die after 100 hours, some are dead out of the box; folks start noticing panel mis-aligment, bright corners, uneven white, tints, etc. Tryg trys to explain all these issues away.
> May 07: full scale rejection of DLA-RS1. Lots of buyer remorse. Lots of deleted posts deemed flaming; Tryg no where to be found.
> June 07 Rumors start to fly about new Sony Qualia replacement, posts double, Tryg reappears. Everyone is planning for the next CEDIA.
It's all coming together, just as I said :D

My apologies to the rest of the forum. I would love nothing better than to have taken this matter with Reincarnate offline, but he hides behind the anonymity of the Internet, doesn't provide an email address, and has his private Messages turned off, making offline contact impossible.

__________________
Warning/Disclaimer! The above post has not passed SARCASM* requirements. It is strictly intended for entertainment purposes only.

*Subjected to Authentic REINCARNATE Certification, Approval, Scrutiny, or Measurement

Second point of observation: While the Qualia is best of the lot that I've had/seen (and I've seen the Ruby, had the Pearl, though not the RS-1), I keep hearkening back to that $3,000 lens that is needed for the Qualia. It probably is elementary that optics play a large role in image quality, and this is the area where plummeting prices can't keep up. The technology might be cheaper, but the necessary lens still costs the same amount.

BINGO
http://jmikef.com/Qualia.jpg

I keep hearkening back to that $3,000 lens that is needed for the Qualia. It probably is elementary that optics play a large role in image quality, and this is the area where plummeting prices can't keep up. The technology might be cheaper, but the necessary lens still costs the same amount.


I'm not trying to argue here. I'm a noob (newb?) and want to understand the lens issue. If the RS1 can focus to the point I can walk up to within a few inches of the screen and see all the little square pixels, perfectly formed with a very consistent black crosshatch separating them, how does a "better" lens improve on this? Perhaps the edges of the pixels could be sharper, but if you move back to normal viewing distance where you can't even see the pixels (no SDE), let alone how sharp their edges are, how could this matter?

I'm not an expert in optics, but I guess the quality of lens goes beyond just focusing. Uniformity, high permeability, flat "response" of all color spectrum, and even rigidness against temperature variation.... in still camera world a Canon L lens can cost thousands, so it's no surprise a high quality motorized focusing/zooming lens structure in a PJ can cost several thousands.

Not to mention that the design limitations are somewhat based on the LENS as well. If the projector is designed for a certain price point, only a certain level of lens is utilized and the projector is designed with the lens limitations in mind... If you have a more capable lens, then I'm sure you have more options for further improvements with the projector design as well.

Hey Bob, keep up the good work... It is nice to see someone speak from the heart and not with hyperbole... You have more experience than the majority of people and keep things in prespective. I think it is clear that you have no agenda other than calling it as you see it. I'm trying to catch up on the RS-1 threads, but am very busy. I rely on informed people with experience to help guide my decisions and yours is an opinion I trust.

While lens quality it important. Even the best lens cannot makeup for the improvements over the last year that have come prior to the lens.

A good lens only does one thing. It reduces the degradation of the image that is produced.

As we mentioned in another thread, a zoom lens with a lower F number which would still be well corrected would be helpful, likely more costly....

My post in March:

It's all coming together, just as I said :D

Sorry, Mike, but I see very few of those items coming true!

Bob Sorel and Reincarnate: I'm sorry that you guys have gotten into an 'excited state' can't manage to just respectfully agree to disagree on some things. I have learned and benefitted from both of your posts, though of course I don't always agree with things that either of you say--but even then they provoke thought, and make me want to see for myself. I think that Bob is more of a perfectionist than most of us, and this is good because it continually 'pushes the envelope', even it sometimes comes across as nitpicking. This is all a matter of style and should be accepted as such.

so far, from what I have gathered in all the posts is this... If you already have a Ruby or Pearl, keep it and enjoy it... If you are buying a new projector today, get the RS-1, really, what else is there to say... (for all people with 130 inch screens and below). (Guess I'm not a fan of DLP)

I might buy an RS-1 and put the Ruby in the bedroom, but I'l likely wait until October to make that decision... When can we find out more about the diamond?

Sorry, Mike, but I see very few of those items coming true!
I'm just stirring the pot. I'm glad the technology of sub $10,000 projectors is growing by leaps and bounds. It keeps Tryg busy. :p

While lens quality it important. Even the best lens cannot makeup for the improvements over the last year that have come prior to the lens.

A good lens only does one thing. It reduces the degradation of the image that is produced.

Well, Tryg, you and I disagree over whether the Qualia was truly surpassed in image quality, but I don't want to argue that point.

What I will say is the flip-side of what you've said, i.e., that the improvements you're referring to can only go so far without a high-quality lens. After living with the Qualia for a few years, and now on to my second "experiment" projector from there (the XV-Z20000), you can see the difference.

Nick :cool:

Bob, for what it's worth, I've always appreciated your posts and hope that you continue to call it just as you have.

Nick :cool:

My apologies to the rest of the forum....

No need. It is pretty clear to anyone with an ounce of sense that the troll is stalking you, best to put him on ignore.

IMO, you are one of the most credible posters on this forum. I have followed your posts from your first move from a 9" CRT to your current RS1. You call em as they are, warts and all.

There are plenty of "I just got projector xxx, and it is the greatest thing since sliced bread" posts on the forum. Your insight is much more important IMO!

No I haven't. Just because you say it doesn't make it so. I report it as I see it. You just don't like what I see.

This is a forum, not a science class. I have NEVER made any claims of being anything other than an enthusiast, just like the majority of people here. It is YOU that continues to mischaracterize my posts saying that I am claiming some sort of knowledge beyond what I report. That is YOUR problem, not mine.

Oh, but when you repeat something that you read from a reviewer or on a web site, are you not doing EXACTLY the same thing? We all learn from each other. There ar very few of us here in this forum that are true innovators...The rest of us are just "parrots" as you call them.

Spiteful? What planet are you from? And if you call accurately reporting what I see on my setup as an "impediment to reporting picture quality progress" then you are truly a deluded individual. I report what I see, and if you don't like, then that's just tough. I am not about to lie about things just to please your warped sense of values.

How dare you put your name and AVScience into the same sentence! You are exactly the opposite of what AVScience stands for. You post all the time just to satisfy your personal agenda (like your hatred of Sony and me, for instance) , and rarely do you do ANYTHING in a positive light. You insult people, poke fun at them, and don't even get your facts straight when doing so. You are not AVScience material and should be banned from this site!

Once again totally misquoting me. I reported that the issues I saw with the RS-1's picture were not the result of the defective condition of my unit (and I was correct). I also reported seeing ONE other unit and reported that the issues I saw were the same (and they were)...so much for you getting any facts straight. I also reported SEVERAL TIMES that despite these issues that the RS-1 provided the best picture quality I have seen to date. You are truly a sick individual.

Responsible for what? Reporting what I see? Maybe I should just lie about everything and tell everyone that all is peaches and cream. Now that would be doing the forum an injustice, but as long as it agrees with your assessment, then I guess all would be fine, heh?

__________________
Warning/Disclaimer! The above post has not passed SARCASM* requirements. It is strictly intended for entertainment purposes only.



Bob: It's no use wrestling with a pig... it loves the mud and you'll only get dirty... it's not easy but if you ignore it, it will go away.

The replacement for the Qualia was here over a year ago. The Infocus 777. Ask Fleener. 8)

The replacement for the Qualia was here over a year ago. The Infocus 777. Ask Fleener. 8)

Funny how Fleener got forgotten on his own thread. But then there's always VideoBill . . .

Nick :cool:

My apologies to the rest of the forum. I would love nothing better than to have taken this matter with Reincarnate offline, but he hides behind the anonymity of the Internet, doesn't provide an email address, and has his private Messages turned off, making offline contact impossible.

__________________
Warning/Disclaimer! The above post has not passed SARCASM* requirements. It is strictly intended for entertainment purposes only.

*Subjected to Authentic REINCARNATE Certification, Approval, Scrutiny, or Measurement

Bob, consider the source. He doesn't deserve the dignity of a response from you. 99% of us see him for what he is. Give him enough rope and he'll hang himself.

While lens quality it important. Even the best lens cannot makeup for the improvements over the last year that have come prior to the lens.

A good lens only does one thing. It reduces the degradation of the image that is produced.

These statements are discussing two separate issues and though you try to connect them, you fail. In fact, your last statement at least partly negates your (assumed) main point. To keep costs down, the new, lower cost PJ's with the "improvements" most likely cut costs in the optics before any other area. By your own logic, this adds image degradation, limiting any supposed gains. On the other hand, a high quality lens on a "pre-improvement" PJ can do much good for the image and make the differences much more subtle than you would appear to suggest.

And, technically speaking, your belief about a lens having only that one stated ability is simply incorrect (or else too simplistically stated).

Funny how Fleener got forgotten on his own thread. But then there's always VideoBill . . .

Nick :cool:

Yes there is. And some other people as well. If you don't want to listen to me, how about Home Theater Mag? They do a bit of testing that most of us on here don't have the capability to do.
2006 Best all around projector - SP777 (Ruby was out, RS1 was not)
May 2007 issue - 2007 RAVE award: Best overall projector - Yamaha DPX-1300 (only counts projectors reviewed within the past year so 777 didn't qualify). "One of the most accurate and noise-free displays we've ever reviewed."

May 2007 Sound & Vision: RS1 review - yes it gave it a nice review but: greens are oversaturated (as is the case with many LCD based products) and uniformity is not very good (as is the case with many LCD based products) the right side of the image is pinkish. And yes, S&V gave the RS1 it's "recommended".

How about Oliver Stone? That guy probably knows a bit about video. He just put a SP777 in his house. It was in the April Sound & Vision. "I love the image on the LG (panel) and InFocus."

I'm not Alan Fleener. Just someone who agrees with some of what he said. And some of what Home Theater Mag said. And some of what Sound & Vision said. And some of what Oliver Stone said.

Alas, Oliver Stone was on the AVS pre-buy list, but got impatient with the delays so bought the SP777 instead, especially after asking Alan Fleener for his advice. Or at least that is what Alan Fleener said.

Yes there is. And some other people as well. If you don't want to listen to me, how about Home Theater Mag? They do a bit of testing that most of us on here don't have the capability to do.
2006 Best all around projector - SP777 (Ruby was out, RS1 was not)
May 2007 issue - 2007 RAVE award: Best overall projector - Yamaha DPX-1300 (only counts projectors reviewed within the past year so 777 didn't qualify). "One of the most accurate and noise-free displays we've ever reviewed."

May 2007 Sound & Vision: RS1 review - yes it gave it a nice review but: greens are oversaturated (as is the case with many LCD based products) and uniformity is not very good (as is the case with many LCD based products) the right side of the image is pinkish. And yes, S&V gave the RS1 it's "recommended".

How about Oliver Stone? That guy probably knows a bit about video. He just put a SP777 in his house. It was in the April Sound & Vision. "I love the image on the LG (panel) and InFocus."

I'm not Alan Fleener. Just someone who agrees with some of what he said. And some of what Home Theater Mag said. And some of what Sound & Vision said. And some of what Oliver Stone said.

Can we start a poll on AVS? It will go like this:

Who Pledges Never to do Business With Alan Fleener Because He Engages in Such Stupid, Obvious Ploys to Sell Things To Us?

I will vote first. I say "yes."

Nick :cool:

It is too bad Fleener came off so condescending and dismissive of other's opinions. This could have been an excellent thread for comparing the RS1 with other's in it's price range, a bit lower, and a bit higher. It could have also gone a long way at comparing the 1080p LCoS image to that of a 3 Chip 720p DLP. That would have been some interesting debate. Instead it is now all the RS1 owners counterattacking (rightfully so) Fleener's comments and position. Reasonable discussion is really out the door after the initial post or two.

As an Infocus owner (7200) and fan and someone that has spent the last few weeks trying to decide between a number of 1080p projectors, engaging in the benefits of getting a 3 Chip DLP unit, albeit 720p, at $2k more than the RS1 would have been interesting.

Anyone, who doesn't have a vested interest in the outcome, ever see these two units side by side? Compare each other's pluses and minuses?

.
2006 Best all around projector - SP777 (Ruby was out, RS1 was not)
Will you also list all the mags that gave the Ruby their product of the Year award. :D

Yeah... this guy's extrapolating from other technologies, bending the truth double and stating the results as incontrovertable fact. He's making stuff up and talking through his hat.

Now... that Sony that had been on 12 hours a day... that I could believe may lead to trouble that Sony didn't bargain for. That's a lot of baking.

The DILAs I am referring to do 16+ hours a day, every day. 365 a year.

SxRD and DILA are not subject to the type of issue he is referring to. We have QX-1s installed operating at roughly this same duty cycle. Even with the much higher heat at which these operate, it is just not an issue.

Now claiming Sony danced around the issue when asked if it is covered is a separate thing. That says something about their service quality (if this claim is true), but it has no bearing on anything if this issue will never arise in any situation.

BB

AS is so often the case of late, here on this forum, there is a huge amount of buzz created or surrounding the newest entry into the front projector market place. This buzz is formed long before anyone has used the product so is mostly out of ignorance. We all remember the buzz surrounding the Sony Ruby and now the Pearl. (Both of which I was not and still am not a fan of).

Over time the true nature of these products came to light. Sadly much too late for those who have invested $$$$ in these units. Had this info been known and understood earlier on would they have bought into these units? I bet some would have not.

Where I am going is here....

While the JVC RS-1 outwardly appears to be the best value out there. It in fact has some major warts or issues and some of these are coming to light but need to be addressed and compared to other options that may be better. So often the IDEA of something by it's specs is far greater then the REALITY of it's implementation. This is the case here with the JVC RS1.

If you are the type of person who loves to figure it out for yourself AND are quite knowledgeable, and or don't mind pounding money down a rat hole if you make a bad choice, or you will be upgrading next year anyways, then please don't post here or read any farther. :D

If you are looking for an image that looks good to you and you see no benefit in accurate colors or gray scale or white or black field uniformity and having your projector ISF calibrated is a waste of money. Then please don't post here or read any farther. :D

Finally If you own or think this thread is your invitation to fight and argue, please don't post here. These are only MY OBSERVATIONS and as such are important to me and perhaps those interested in an contrasting opinion of this projector.

I like a great many things about this unit. It is beautiful to look at. It is light and fairly quite. It is at a good price point in the market. I however, find the warts deal breakers and so the reason for the following.

With all that out of the way here we go.....

I just had one of these units in with the idea I would sell this as an affordable unit until we get cheaper 1080P DLP units to offer.

While I did notice an improved contrast level it was not an jaw dropping experience.

I got to wondering why?

I feel it was due to two areas that countered the contrast improvement.

1) the lens is not up to the task of finely focusing thus softening the image overall. ( yes I understand that it resolves to 1 pixel but it is softer overall then my ref projector) It may in fact be just the way LCOS works too.

2) the ANSI contrast is still too low to deliver the 3D pop I am used to seeing. (even in the darker ares of the picture)

Another thing I noticed was that going from 720P to 1080P was not all that noticeable FROM MY SEAT. ( 11.5ft from an 106" diag. 16x9 screen)

So as I have said all along this 1080P hype is mostly just that HYPE. IMO. I do believe that DLP 720P and DLP 1080P will be more noticeable.( time will tell) It goes back to this lens, focus, ANSI contrast thing.

All here are aware of the, IMO, mistake that JVC and Sim are doing with their choice of primary colors. While it usually seems that more is better this is not one of those times. Now if you were allowed to CHOOSE the wrong or right primaries then fine but you cannot. :mad:

In the world of an videophile there is little tolerance for gross flaws or flavors that depart from set standards.

The JVC RS-1 was designed purposely to deviate from the known primary color standards. IMO this was a big mistake and is inexcusable. In this day and age there is no reason to offer an flawed product such as this or any other. In this case it costs the same to make it wrong as it does to make it right.( If you think wrong sells better than right you need to get out and educate the buyer. Trust me, his wife can tell in an heartbeat)

This unit also has been found to show a lot of film grain. Some of this grain is MPEG noise and some is introduced by the unit itself. I don't pretend to be an electrical engineer, but I see this in higher levels and have to say at first blush that there is something going on in the signal path that is adding it in larger quantities. It is really noticeable in the darker part of the image at viewing distances. (AS you can tell I don't care for this added grain or noise. I find it distracting as I do for the softer image and lack of 3D pop).

As an side note, I am not one to find flaw with an image if I cannot see an artifact at seated viewing distance. If it can only be seen when you get up and walk to the screen, then while it may be an interesting point, it has little merit on viewed image performance.

Most of the RS-1 praisers are coming from owning cheaper, lower performing projectors which tend to be bought over the Internet. That means that they are units known not to play by the rules and come with awful gray scale set ups out of the box. The JVC comes calibrated pretty good so this alone will gain some good impressions.

This leads in to the issue for now, and who knows when if ever, there is no easy way to adjust the gray scale on this unit. So it suffers out of the box and will most likely get worse as the lamp ages or is changed. :mad:

You need to be careful with the size of the cables ends on your HDMI cables. That is the HDMI cables end jacket. The HDMI input spacing is pretty close together. I found that if the cable is beefy, as most high quality cables are, then you will not be able to connect two into the projector. This would suck if you already have the cables installed and now they won't fit. :mad: ( You may be able to trim ,that is cut down, the plug insulation but be careful you don't go too far).



So then what am I using for my reference projector?

The InFocus SP 777.

It is obvious that the SP 777 can focus tack sharp and deliver high ANSI contrast images. One look will tell you this. It is very easy to set up and has the light out put to deal with almost any installation issues. It also has interchangeable lenses which is not available on the JVC.

Well, you say, it should due to its higher cost. Well it is not all that much higher. given it's better picture and near perfect and selectable primaries invisible uniformity issues and ruler flat gray-scale. It is still an amazing unit. Tie that to its blinding light output and it still is one sweet unit.

Well you may ask what about those who are on an lower budget. I still find most of the SP 777 qualities in the less $$$ InFocus projectors. These units still deliver more light out-put, accurate primary colors, and good contrast with excellent ANSI contrast and focus which is necessary to achieve that 3D pop.

So there you have it. Yes I am an InFocus dealer. But I can be an JVC dealer too. For now I will use my informed observations to offer an opposing view.

Hey if the customer insists I will even stoop to selling them the JVC RS-1 or even an plasma but ONLY after I inform them of all the issues. I find it's better to let them know BEFORE they spend $$$. I wish more did like-wise.


While I understand that some will take offense to this thread, I hope you will only post here to offer up other issues with this unit you have discovered that I may have missed.

There are many FAN BOY threads that you fans can post to. Try to leave this one for real world facts and issues with the JVC DILA-RS1.

Thanks for your understanding. The money you save may be your own. ;)

This is why I stopped reading AVSForum and started watching my projector.

I was just making a point with all those reviews that perhaps Allan isn't as crazy as you all make him out to be. I'll agree that he needs some work on his tone.
I probably shouldn't have been as harsh as I was on the RS1 with my original post but I did state it's a nice projector and hard to beat if what you enjoy most is watching 1080p movies in a pitch dark theater. But, there are other things to consider for a lot of people.

Cheers to Chiliman and raoul!
Raoul has his and is enjoying it.
For those who don't have theirs and are considering one, I'd love for everyone in the market and in this forum to do as Chiliman has requested. With 2 projectors you are considering, put them side by side and then run identical content through each for what you'll be watching; 480, broadcast 720 (both "shows" and sports), broadcast 1080i (both "shows" and sports), HD/Blu 1080p. Simulate your lighting situation. (A projector in a pitch dark room looks much different than one in a room with even a little light.) Then decide for yourself.

If you do that, all our bickering, slants, opinions, etc. on this site are pointless. You'll have chosen what looks best to you and that's what matters most. Based on reading this thread there are obviously some differing viewpoints on each technology.

Lastly to the LCOS longevity issue - the story I told of the country club with the Ruby is 100% true. I'd post their name here but my dealer friend who sold the Ruby's to the country club and the country club itself probably wouldn't appreciate posting it on the web. If there wasn't such an issue, why would someone in Sony service not answer the question when I called for myself? If your projector isn't functioning properly, it's under warranty, right?... no matter what the issue is unless you dropped it something??? If such an issue didn't exist why wouldn't you just say it would be covered under warranty?
Perhaps it doesn't happen to all of them as Brandon attests to but it happens to some of them.

On to more important things - can anyone point me to how I can firmware upgrade my Toshiba HD-A2? Tosh's web site isn't the most helpful.

Thanks

Hard to get upset about comments from a guy that can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p at 11 feet. He probably has to run his projector in dynamic mode so he gets enough lumens out of it to penetrate his cataracts.... :)

(yes, that was sarcasm....)

What I love about the RS-1 is perfect greyscale OTB, and the ability to get a perfect greyscale in minutes if your screen refects certain colors better, with Delta E of 0-1.

No DI, so mixed scenes remain so bright it hurts my eyes.

Colors that if you use HDMI, are perfectly saturated to my eye.

Incredibly sharp picture when fed a good 1080 signal.

(Loads of professional reviews say it is the best projector in its price class for a reason).

On to more important things - can anyone point me to how I can firmware upgrade my Toshiba HD-A2? Tosh's web site isn't the most helpful.

Thanks

Changing the subject. Good tactic, Allen.

Nick :cool:

I'm not Alan Fleener. Just someone who agrees with some of what he said. And some of what Home Theater Mag said. And some of what Sound & Vision said. And some of what Oliver Stone said.

I was just making a point with all those reviews that perhaps Allan isn't as crazy as you all make him out to be. I'll agree that he needs some work on his tone.
I probably shouldn't have been as harsh as I was on the RS1 with my original post but I did state it's a nice projector and hard to beat if what you enjoy most is watching 1080p movies in a pitch dark theater. But, there are other things to consider for a lot of people.


Note, too, the deliberate misspelling--two different ways of "Allen," as a preemptive misdirection. After all, how could this new member with such a passion for Allen's projector spell his name wrong? And twice to boot.

Naughty, naughty, Allen, Allan, Alan.

Nick :cool:

On to more important things - can anyone point me to how I can firmware upgrade my Toshiba HD-A2? Tosh's web site isn't the most helpful.

It's in the manual. You'll need a hard 10-base-T connection from the player to a router/switch. If you do a search, you'll probably find some threads on various firmware revs - there are various caveats and warnings sprinkled liberally throughout.

Key: DON'T have a disc in the player when you do the upgrade.

That's the nuts thread.. Health Nut always touching himself and padding, Nick Satullo, always :cool: with at least five obsolete Kenwood DVD changers, videobill whose trademark is to shoot himself in the foot, and now we have watermouth Fleener who tries to upstage everybody and who never saw a RS1 in action.. or did he? Well, as for myself I would not have purchased any digital projector if it had not been for the RS1 which is truly a sensational projector...

Note, too, the deliberate misspelling--two different ways of "Allen," as a preemptive misdirection. After all, how could this new member with such a passion for Allen's projector spell his name wrong? And twice to boot.

Naughty, naughty, Allen, Allan, Alan.

Nick :cool:

You beat me to it Nick, I noticed this as well.

That's the nuts thread.. Health Nut always touching himself and padding, Nick Satullo, always :cool: with at least five obsolete Kenwood DVD changers, videobill whose trademark is to shoot himself in the foot, and now we have watermouth Fleener who tries to upstage everybody and who never saw a RS1 in action.. or did he? Well, as for myself I would not have purchased any digital projector if it had not been for the RS1 which is truly a sensational projector...
You are my hero! :p

I tried to rationalize buying saving the money and buying the Pearl, instead, thankfully I was able to see an HD1 and bought it. 8)

Thats the first I have read of an issue with the lens. Isnt the RS1 lens supposed to be a major improvement from the Ruby and Pearls?

What the original poster leaves out is that despite the fact that there are some of those issues in some of the projectors, they are mostly considered to be minor annoyances that are well toreable to most of the owners on those threads. I for one only see the red fringing in one pixel wide test patterns, but I really never notice it when watching movies.

My biggest, really only, peeve with the RS1/HD1 is that it doesnt have vertical stretch! But I went ahead and bought an Anthem AVM50 .. which arrives on Friday. 8)


The vertical stretch is what has kept me from buying the RS1. I was at Cedia in September ans thought it was the best projector at the show regardless of price and that included the three chip units from Sim. I am a Sim ht300E owner so I have no preference for any technology although my next projector will be a 3 chip simply because i think the color is better and I get eye fatigue from looking at a single chip

I have seen the infocus777 and did not think it measured up to any of the three chip Sims and I thought the RS1 was better than any of the Sim projectors. The introduction of the Wiregrid polarizers which increase the contrast from 1000 to 15,000 to 1 have taken the major techni-logical advantage away from the DLP. that they once had. There is certainly a through put advantage but at a D65 calibrated Lumens, the RS1 is a very bright projector and will put over 23 ftlamberts on a 100 inch diagonal screen

The color complaints about the RS1 do not reflect the measurements made by Cinema4home or any of the other objective measurements. Most people who have single chip projectors due not realize that as the color wheel rotates and changes from one colr to the next it has to have a blank region between colors so when they look at a 3 chip projector they think the color is over saturated because they have been viwing images that are undersaturated.

The infocus777 is almost three years old and is showing its age and is extremely large.

I agree that most people will not be able to tell the difference between 720P and 1080P because the resolution of the eye will be the limiting factor.

I have not bought an RS1 because I do not want to get an external processor with a genum chip to replace the genum processor in the RS1 so that I can get vertical stretch. I have seen the avm50 with the RS1 and it does a wonderful job and produces a great image but it is almost as expensive as the projector.

Did you get a RS1 Mike? I was so extatic about mine that this w-e I was jumping all over the place like a chimp, making woo woos and aah aahs and hii hiis. Finally exhausted and drained I went to bed at 2AM in the morning.

Did you get a RS1 Mike? I was so extatic about mine that this w-e I was jumping all over the place like a chimp, making woo woos and aah aahs and hii hiis. Finally exhausted and drained I went to bed at 2AM in the morning.
No.
Still very much in love with my big fat outdated overpriced Qualia 004. :p

Most people don't know a color wheel rotates? :)

The color complaints about the RS1 do not reflect the measurements made by Cinema4home or any of the other objective measurements. Most people who have single chip projectors due not realize that as the color wheel rotates and changes from one colr to the next it has to have a blank region between colors so when they look at a 3 chip projector they think the color is over saturated because they have been viwing images that are undersaturated.

I agree, and this is certainly consistent with my experience regarding the comparable saturation of my RS1 vs. my Dwin TV3.

Health Nut always touching himself and padding

I get the first part... what is the padding part? :)

Yes, I am padding right now thinking of (3) Black D-BOX Quest Love Seats and a Sony Diamond :D

1.5 inch excursions ...yea.... 50,000 on/off.....yea... 1:1000 ANSI contrast with 1000 ANSI LUMENS... F' yea!!! 2358 x 1080 panels.... SCEEEyaaaaahh!!!!!!!

(1.5 inch excursions in reference to the D-BOX actuators)

"Most people who have single chip projectors due not realize that as the color wheel rotates and changes from one colr to the next it has to have a blank region between colors so when they look at a 3 chip projector they think the color is over saturated because they have been viwing images that are undersaturated."

The spoke time of the CW simply results a lower duty cycle and consequent loss of brightness.

Not the same as lowered saturation, which would require moving to a different point on the color triangle.

Notwithstanding that, a dimmer picture does subjectively look less saturated.

The vertical stretch is what has kept me from buying the RS1. I was at Cedia in September ans thought it was the best projector at the show regardless of price and that included the three chip units from Sim. I am a Sim ht300E owner so I have no preference for any technology although my next projector will be a 3 chip simply because i think the color is better and I get eye fatigue from looking at a single chip

I have seen the infocus777 and did not think it measured up to any of the three chip Sims and I thought the RS1 was better than any of the Sim projectors. .

Interesting thoughts on the Sims vis a vis the RS1. I've ordered an RS1 and it will either go into my HT replacing a Sim ht300e or be put up for sale. To date I have been very happy with the colour uniformity, flat greyscale linearity and low DE of the Sim. Brightness has not been an issue with the Silverstar screen. It remains to be seen whether the high contrast ratio of the JVC is worth the oversaturated colours compared to my current setup. The hard to see difference between 1080p vs. 720p in itself has not been a big enough reason to buy new displays.

The high contrast is only on/off. The ANSI contrast is only 300/1.

"Most people who have single chip projectors due not realize that as the color wheel rotates and changes from one colr to the next it has to have a blank region between colors so when they look at a 3 chip projector they think the color is over saturated because they have been viwing images that are undersaturated."

The spoke time of the CW simply results a lower duty cycle and consequent loss of brightness.

Not the same as lowered saturation, which would require moving to a different point on the color triangle.

Notwithstanding that, a dimmer picture does subjectively look less saturated.

Purity in CIE 1931 XYZ color space

In the CIE XYZ color space, the purity or saturation is the Euclidean distance between the position of the color (x,y) and the illuminant's white point (xI,yI) on the CIE xy projective plane, divided by the same distance for a pure (monochromatic, or dichromatic on the purple line) color with the same hue (xP,yP) = ρmax(x − xI,y − yI) + (xI,yI):

p = \sqrt{\frac{(x - x_{I})^2 + (y - y_{I})^2}{(x - x_{P})^2 + (y - y_{P})^2}}

and ρmax maximal within the boundary of the chromaticity diagram.


I stand corrected. Color theory always dirves me crazy. I lose it when three dimensional color space is projected on a two dimensional CIE graph.

Color Saturation is the ratio of the other Wavelengths in the color spectrum to the dominant Wavelength. The ratio of the dominant Hue to all the other Hues. A three chip Projector will always have the capacity to produce colors of higher saturation than a single chip with a rotating color wheel. This is because:

1. The three chip projector can produce higher saturated colors than a single chip because each color has a longer time to be averaged by the eye within the video frame than does a single chip projector.

2. The spinning color wheel in a single chip projector usually consists of red ,green , blue and transparent segments. Because the transparent segment transmits all the colors it decreases color saturation because it reduces the ratio of the dominant color to the other colors. The blanking between color transitions also reduces the averaging time over a video frame for any particullar color.

Finally because a three chip projector has a higher color saturation than a single chip it can resolve finer gradations of color in a video frame producing a more realistic picture.

"Most people who have single chip projectors due not realize that as the color wheel rotates and changes from one colr to the next it has to have a blank region between colors so when they look at a 3 chip projector they think the color is over saturated because they have been viwing images that are undersaturated."

The spoke time of the CW simply results a lower duty cycle and consequent loss of brightness.

Not the same as lowered saturation, which would require moving to a different point on the color triangle.

Notwithstanding that, a dimmer picture does subjectively look less saturated.

Purity in CIE 1931 XYZ color space

In the CIE XYZ color space, the purity or saturation is the Euclidean distance between the position of the color (x,y) and the illuminant's white point (xI,yI) on the CIE xy projective plane, divided by the same distance for a pure (monochromatic, or dichromatic on the purple line) color with the same hue (xP,yP) = ρmax(x − xI,y − yI) + (xI,yI):

p = \sqrt{\frac{(x - x_{I})^2 + (y - y_{I})^2}{(x - x_{P})^2 + (y - y_{P})^2}}

and ρmax maximal within the boundary of the chromaticity diagram.


I stand corrected. Color theory always dirves me crazy. I lose it when three dimensional color space is projected on a two dimensional CIE graph.

Color Saturation is the ratio of the other Wavelengths in the color spectrum to the dominant Wavelength. The ratio of the dominant Hue to all the other Hues. A three chip Projector will always have the capacity to produce colors of higher saturation than a single chip with a rotating color wheel. This is because:

1. The three chip projector can produce higher saturated colors than a single chip because each color has a longer time to be averaged by the eye within the video frame than does a single chip projector.

2. The spinning color wheel in a single chip projector usually consists of red ,green , blue and transparent segments. Because the transparent segment transmits all the colors it decreases color saturation because it reduces the ratio of the dominant color to the other colors. The blanking between color transitions also reduces the averaging time over a video frame for any particullar color.

Finally because a three chip projector has a higher color saturation than a single chip it can resolve finer gradations of color in a video frame producing a more realistic picture.

I can't help but agree with the OP here *but* the JVC is still a breakthrough product in terms of overall performance and capability. Of course, "breakthrough" is so common in PJs that it's debatable if it makes sense to get as excited as many people are. I'm going to sell the RS1 despite that fact that it's not as good as DLP in many areas because it is better in others and this is the first LCoS that wowed me, even a little. I do think I'd rather have a 777 overall but I'd actually *buy* the RS1 for its value. If the 777 were $6K, it would be a heckuva a fun fight. TI needs to get a 3-chip engine in mass production if it wants to not lose sales to stuff like this.

"Most people who have single chip projectors due not realize that as the color wheel rotates and changes from one colr to the next it has to have a blank region between colors so when they look at a 3 chip projector they think the color is over saturated because they have been viwing images that are undersaturated."

The spoke time of the CW simply results a lower duty cycle and consequent loss of brightness.

Not the same as lowered saturation, which would require moving to a different point on the color triangle.

Notwithstanding that, a dimmer picture does subjectively look less saturated.

Purity in CIE 1931 XYZ color space

In the CIE XYZ color space, the purity or saturation is the Euclidean distance between the position of the color (x,y) and the illuminant's white point (xI,yI) on the CIE xy projective plane, divided by the same distance for a pure (monochromatic, or dichromatic on the purple line) color with the same hue (xP,yP) = ρmax(x − xI,y − yI) + (xI,yI):

p = \sqrt{\frac{(x - x_{I})^2 + (y - y_{I})^2}{(x - x_{P})^2 + (y - y_{P})^2}}

and ρmax maximal within the boundary of the chromaticity diagram.


I stand corrected. Color theory always dirves me crazy. I lose it when three dimensional color space is projected on a two dimensional CIE graph.

Color Saturation is the ratio of the other Wavelengths in the color spectrum to the dominant Wavelength. The ratio of the dominant Hue to all the other Hues. A three chip Projector will always have the capacity to produce colors of higher saturation than a single chip with a rotating color wheel. This is because:

1. The three chip projector can produce higher saturated colors than a single chip because each color has a longer time to be averaged by the eye within the video frame than does a single chip projector.

2. The spinning color wheel in a single chip projector usually consists of red ,green , blue and transparent segments. Because the transparent segment transmits all the colors it decreases color saturation because it reduces the ratio of the dominant color to the other colors. The blanking between color transitions also reduces the averaging time over a video frame for any particullar color.

Finally because a three chip projector has a higher color saturation than a single chip it can resolve finer gradations of color in a video frame producing a more realistic picture.

Purity in CIE 1931 XYZ color space

In the CIE XYZ color space, the purity or saturation is the Euclidean distance between the position of the color (x,y) and the illuminant's white point (xI,yI) on the CIE xy projective plane, divided by the same distance for a pure (monochromatic, or dichromatic on the purple line) color with the same hue (xP,yP) = ρmax(x − xI,y − yI) + (xI,yI):

p = \sqrt{\frac{(x - x_{I})^2 + (y - y_{I})^2}{(x - x_{P})^2 + (y - y_{P})^2}}

and ρmax maximal within the boundary of the chromaticity diagram.




damn this is just awesome

damn this is just awesome
I liked the "3d" diagram version a whole lot better. :rolleyes: :D ;)

The high contrast is only on/off. The ANSI contrast is only 300/1.

:rolleyes:

Care to explain the significance of this with anything aside from your repeated statements that you equate on/off specs with amp measurements (as if to someone besides you, this oft repeated comparison actually has a meaning)?

Ok, so I'm a recent RS1 owner trying not to make this a fan post....

I considered the 777 as an alternative to the RS1, but there was a key factor that helped with my decision to go with the JVC, and that was lens throw.

I have two possible mounting locations for a projector in my room; it can either be positioned right above the primary viewing seats or on the back wall (about 8' further back). The 777 required mounting right above my head (and it is supposed to be loud), or the addition of a long-throw lens for several $k more ($4-5k, IIRC).

The Optoma HD81 was my initial choice, and it would have worked OK in the overhead location. Reports of high noise levels and overheating problems bumped it from the list.

The RS1 was the only projector I found that offered good picture quality, sufficient lumens, the required throw to mount on the back wall, and at a price I could afford.

As far as I know there were no other alternatives at the time I ordered (although I'm sure that will change if it hasn't already..)

Yes, I can see the problems that have been identified (although none of them bother me yet). I am thinking about CIH, so the lack of vertical stretch may be an issue down the road, but at this time I am not sure I even have the room for a wider screen.

Peter

Al I can tell you is that after going CIH, you can't go back!! For the first time, I have a true theater... amazing (1 year later now).

Ok, so I'm a recent RS1 owner trying not to make this a fan post....

I considered the 777 as an alternative to the RS1, but there was a key factor that helped with my decision to go with the JVC, and that was lens throw.

I have two possible mounting locations for a projector in my room; it can either be positioned right above the primary viewing seats or on the back wall (about 8' further back). The 777 required mounting right above my head (and it is supposed to be loud), or the addition of a long-throw lens for several $k more ($4-5k, IIRC).

The Optoma HD81 was my initial choice, and it would have worked OK in the overhead location. Reports of high noise levels and overheating problems bumped it from the list.

The RS1 was the only projector I found that offered good picture quality, sufficient lumens, the required throw to mount on the back wall, and at a price I could afford.

As far as I know there were no other alternatives at the time I ordered (although I'm sure that will change if it hasn't already..)

Yes, I can see the problems that have been identified (although none of them bother me yet). I am thinking about CIH, so the lack of vertical stretch may be an issue down the road, but at this time I am not sure I even have the room for a wider screen.

Peter

As I've stated many times - one of the main reasons I waited (since last Sept) for the RS1 (vs the Pearl or Mitsubishi) was it's 2X lens. I too needed an extra long throw from the very back of my room. My RS1 is almost 21 feet from my 106" screen.

My room feels (to me) like more of a "movie theater" with the projector at the very back of the room (vs overhead).