Okay, now before anyone says anything--yes I know if I wanted to ensure shake-free video I should use a tripod. Having gotten that out of the way, I am wondering if it's just me or could it be the OIS on my HV20 might be defective; I ask because while I was watching video w/ the HV20 connected to my plasma, I could notice what appeared to be very subtle (i.e., teeny weeny) camera shake (or whatever the correct term is) throughout most of the footage. Camcorder was in "P" recording mode, OIS was on at the time of recording, and I was standing still as best I could w/ no panning and/or zooming whatsoever.

As best as I can describe it, the shake wasn't continuous--i.e., maybe every 4-5 seconds or so the video would jiggle for a split second, as if I had moved my camcorder a fraction of an inch. What made this annoying wasn't so much that I could see the jiggle at all, but that it was occuring throughout almost the entire footage. IOW--maybe one or two jiggles in a 5 minute clip, I could perhaps attribute to maybe my having flinched a wee bit, panning, and/or zooming...but throughout the entire footage w/ no panning/zooming/moving going on?

So...is it that I just need to find a more better/proper way to handhold my camcorder while filming...do I have a defective OIS (or something else)...or is it just the nature of the beast w/ OIS implementation in a consumer HDV camcorder? I don't think it's a tape dropout issue, since AFAICT I did not hear any accompanying audio dropouts during those camera shake moments.

Thanks!

Camera shake is an extremely subjective thing... you're best doing your own comparison. Do a shoot with it on and one with it off and compare.

There will be some movement with OIS engaged, even with the steadiest of hands. If you want to see the difference shoot a sequence with OIS turned on and then turned off. Nothing says 'amateur' more quickly than a video with shakey scenes. Even a cheapie lightweight, $30 Walmart variety tripod will steady things up immensely. Another option might be to purchase a consumer version of Steady Cam.

Tony, some people are better at holding camcorders more steady than others. Some people have pretty bad hand shake with small camcorders. There are techniques for minimizing hand shake with any camera. First off NEVER hold the camcorder with one hand....I don't care how small the camera is. You're better off bracing the front of the camera with one hand and using your right hand to hold the camera with the strap.

If you use that technique, and you don't have a really bad hand tremor (and some people do), you should get very steady results at wide angle. All bets are off if you try holding the camera with one hand and at extreme telephoto. No OIS will give you the results you want.

But be comfortable in the fact that the Canon OIS is as good as any camera on the market. Most people rave about it. But again, if your technique is poor or if you simply can't hold your hand reasonably steady, all bets are off.

This thing is brilliant:

http://www.thepod.ca/

There's also things like the Merlin:

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/camcorders/0,39029423,39195523,00.htm

There's also things like the Merlin:

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/camcorders/0,39029423,39195523,00.htm

the only problem with this thing is that it costs as much as the camcorder :p

Tony,

Iv'e noticed the same thing on my Sony HC7.

I had been wondering the same thing because my old Sony Hi8 camera never had this problem. I am thinking that because it is HD and at a higher resoulution, and we are probably watching it on a larger tv now, that it magnifies the problem.

I've seriously thought about returning the camera for this problem, but it sounds as if the new HD cams have more camera shake for whatever reason, compared to the old Hi 8 I had.

I had read that HD camcorders in general are more susceptible to camera shake, and I did get a little nervous when I first used my Canon HV20 compared to my old Canon Elura because it did seem more "touchy". However, I got used to it very quickly and found that using the viewfinder and holding with two hands (no duh right) helps tremendously if I really want to eliminate any sign of it. Of course I have shot some casual footage handheld with one hand using the LCD that I still enjoy plenty well even with a little extra "shake" here and there.

At least we have what sounds like one of the best implemented OIS systems out there with the Canon HV20, it sure sounds like many of the initial users of the new JVC GZ-HD7 are saying that the OIS is absolutely terrible.

I agree. the most effective technique for me is to use the viewfinder and hold the camera with both hands. If I use the viewfinder , I tend to hold it farther away from my body than normal for clarity, if I'm not wearing reading glasses, and that tends to make the shake worse.

Not only does it help to use two hands while shooting (with OIS turned on), but don't forget to turn on the crosshair grid (or whatever it's called) on the LCD display. It seems to keep me "in line," anyway :)

It definitely has to do with the increased resolution, every little movement will disrupt pixels.

Breathing right is also important, use lots of short breaths too small to disrupt the camera.

Thanks all for pretty much assuring me that it's probably just technique on my part (plus a little something to do w/ filming w/ a consumer HD camcorder in general), rather than perhaps an issue w/ my HV20! I admit I've never really held a camcorder w/ two hands while filming, nor really using the viewfinder to help minimize shaking (can someone please explain to me the advantage of using the viewfinder vs. the LCD screen?)...but I'll definitely implement those techniques to see if that'll greatly minimize shaking.

The advantage to using the viewfinder is that you are using your face as another means of bracing the camera. Using the LCD you are more likely to use one hand which is guaranteed to result in unsteady footage.

It wasn't that long ago that camcorders only used a viewfinder, and I even remember when they were only black & white . :eek: :eek:

The HV20 shows all LCD info in the viewfinder but both cannot be used at the same time.

Yea it's funny how time and technology changes the game. Back in the day (late 80's) I used to video weddings, and OIS was really unnecessary since my camera was shoulder mounted, and had a recorder deck that was separate from the camera. The viewfinder allowed me to use my eye/face and head along with my shoulder for a very steady shot. I think people using these palm cameras today should take advantage of some of the other stabilizing gadgets on the market, and STOP giving us such shaky video to watch! You're making me dizzy!! :p

You can always build a poor man's steadicam

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~johnny/steadycam/

This device basically uses a weight to steady the camera, vertically, and you manually steady it with a long handle horizontally.

You can always build a poor man's steadicam

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~johnny/steadycam/

This device basically uses a weight to steady the camera, vertically, and you manually steady it with a long handle horizontally.

Do you own one of these? If so, how well does it work? I'm curious as to how difficult/possible it would be to use zoom while holding this device. That would require freeing one hand from the stabilizer temporarily. Of course, I could just buy&try at those prices (he builds them for $40 plus s&h).

Chris

I dont own one, but its so simple you basically just guessed the effects :)
Yes you would lose horizontal stabilization, but the weight on the bottom would help stabilize the camera's vertical movement as you push the zoom buttons.

I dont own one, but its so simple you basically just guessed the effects :)
Yes you would lose horizontal stabilization, but the weight on the bottom would help stabilize the camera's vertical movement as you push the zoom buttons.

the zoom switch is soooooooo sensitive you virtually only need to breathe on it to zoom in/out.

Yep, well the whole lightness of the camerais what the weight is there to address. I still would rather have either the Steadicam JR, or that other device that was mentioned in this thread, the Merlin.

http://www.steadicam.com/handheldSteadicamJR.html
http://www.steadicam.com/handheldmerlin.html

What I wonder is, are these much better than the PoorMan's Steadicam?

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Man i love that camera. took lots of breathless shots this weekend. Used my new tripod, a decent tripod sure makes it all work perfectly :)

i just got my editing software, gonna download some clips hopefully tonite.

the zoom switch is soooooooo sensitive you virtually only need to breathe on it to zoom in/out.

Yes, it is stupidly sensitive. One of the first adjustments I had to make on the unit was to change the default variable speed (which was too sensitive for me) to a fixed speed. I think it is very unsettling when someone zooms in too fast. Very annoying.

Somebody at Canon thinks crash-zoom is a cool thing!

The advantage to using the viewfinder is that you are using your face as another means of bracing the camera. Using the LCD you are more likely to use one hand which is guaranteed to result in unsteady footage.
Boy, am I a dunce for not being able to figure that out! Looks like I'll need to be wearing my contact lenses a bit more often, in that case... ;)

Tony, we all make silly mistakes.