In somewhat of a shocker, God of War creator David Jaffe has admitted that if he could change something about PS3, he would have removed its Blu-ray player and sold the console at a cheaper price. He also revealed that he might one day found his own independent studio. More within...


In part two of Geoff Keighley's Bonus Round with Sony Santa Monica Studio Creative Director David Jaffe over at GameTrailers.com, the God of War creator had a number of interesting things to say, but it was perhaps his comments in a teaser clip for part three that will draw the most attention.


When asked what he would change about the PlayStation 3, he responded, "I probably would have taken the Blu-ray out and sold it for less money." Of course, hindsight is always 20/20, but Sony certainly doesn't seem to view the inclusion of Blu-ray as a mistake. Jaffe didn't outright label it a mistake either, but he's the first Sony employee (to this editor's knowledge) to even question the need for Blu-ray.


SCE Worldiwide Studios President Phil Harrison and other Sony executives have repeatedly stressed the importance of the Blu-ray format, not just as a next-gen movie format, but as a game disc format that provides game developers with plenty of storage space to build highly detailed game worlds without the need for multiple discs. Microsoft has been using standard DVD-9 discs for the Xbox 360 and has thus far avoided any multiple disc scenarios through the use of highly advanced compression techniques.


Earlier on in part two of the Bonus Round, Jaffe once again commented on his love for smaller downloadable games, such as Calling All Cars. Echoing sentiments he expressed to GameDaily BIZ during a GDC interview, Jaffe commented, "I want to do games that take 10-13 months; I want to do games that aren't always story-driven, that are more gameplay-driven."


Interestingly, when Jaffe was asked about the possibility of one day starting his own independent studio, he seemed to embrace the idea as one he's already given much thought to. "I think it's a great idea and it's an idea that I've explored and will continue to explore," he said. "You never really know – Sony's been a great home for a long time and whether or not it's with an independent studio or staying within the walls of Sony, I always want to be able to contribute to Sony's [camp], but the specific way to get to that destination is under discussion right now. So whether or not that becomes a full fledged company or it becomes a more focused role within Sony, which is sort of all about these [smaller] games is sort of TBD at the moment."


For Jaffe, it's not just a matter of his enjoying creating smaller titles, but it also comes down to his realization during the God of War development period that he just can't do those big, epic titles anymore. "God of War was an eye-opener for me; all I did was live at that studio," he revealed.


"This is your life. It's the one you get, for the moment anyway, and it doesn't make sense to do things other than what makes you excited," Jaffe said. "For me now that I've gotten the 'big game' out of my system, this is what's in my system now."


And in typical outspoken Jaffe fashion, he remarked that big games aren't necessarily "better" than smaller ones and added regarding the drive to constantly create big blockbusters, "It's like, 'F**k you capitalist society that says all I need to do is work and contribute to the bottom line. F**k you up your a**.' I want a life."


Jaffe also said that while Calling All Cars, which uses the Warhawk engine, obviously doesn't maximize the PS3's power, "It's [still] a pretty advanced game under the hood; there's a lot going on." The important thing to remember, he said, is that it's $9.99 and fun to play. Of note, Jaffe did admit to a "mistake" of sorts on the development of Calling All Cars. He said that because the game is going to appeal to real gamers anyway (not "soccer moms"), it might have been a wiser marketing move to go with an "edgier or more mature" thematic on top of the same gameplay

Shut your mouth, go to the store, buy a year supply of Hot Pockets and get your ass in the studio and give us GoW3 :D
just kidding ... you only live once, but what about the children??? like me ... a 26 year old kid.

I'm honestly surprised he would say something so shortsighted. I mean God of War 2 was shipped using a DVD9 Dual layer disc, with a 7.9 Gb capacity. Now I'd have to research it a bit, but I can only imagine that they had to shoehorn all of the game files onto a disc that small.

Perhaps he thinks that a game like GoW2 is the best we should expect?? No high-resolution images, no lossless audio, no bonus features. Heck, they even had to ship a second DVD with the GoW package for interviews and features.

He may be cool with 4-5 Disc games, but I'll keep my Blu-ray thanks...

Sometimes I wish Jaffe would keep his mouth shut. There's no doubt that God Of War is a thing of beauty and is fantastic game. I never got into the Twisted Metal series but it is certainly well respected. That being said, I don't understand why everyone gives Jaffe's words so much credence. It's nice to hear things from a developer standpoint, no doubt, but when a comment like "I probably would have taken the Blu-ray player out" is made that is so clearly short-sighted, I have to wonder why anyone cares what Jaffe's opinion on it is. Calling All Cars looks like a steaming pile if you ask me.

That said, it's nice to hear opinions, but I seriously think that everyone will be thanking Sony for putting Blu-ray into the thing. When you look at games like GOW II and Oblivion already seemingly hitting the threshold, you can't honestly tell me that the DVD format will be sufficient toward the end of the PS3's life cycle or even two years from now.

I'm honestly surprised he would say something so shortsighted. I mean God of War 2 was shipped using a DVD9 Dual layer disc, with a 7.9 Gb capacity. Now I'd have to research it a bit, but I can only imagine that they had to shoehorn all of the game files onto a disc that small.

Perhaps he thinks that a game like GoW2 is the best we should expect?? No high-resolution images, no lossless audio, no bonus features. Heck, they even had to ship a second DVD with the GoW package for interviews and features.

He may be cool with 4-5 Disc games, but I'll keep my Blu-ray thanks...


Thats not why they shipped with the second disc. It is more attractive to ship 2 disc just like it is with DVD movies. They can put those same features on that disc and leave it at that but just like movies that say "2 disc set" it is even more attractive to get then it would be with a small print saying "plus bonus features" somewhere on the disc. About the 4-5 comment of games on disc wouldn't we be seeing that with more then just 1 game now with the 360 and Wii if compacity is such a big issue with developers. The bottom dollar is more important in the food chain then worries of disc compacity other wise we wouldn't be seeing developers making games for the 360 and being exclusive at that. You can say the same thing about the PS3 how many developers have games out right now that have taken whatever the advantage is to Blu-Ray. Not saying it won't happen and that it isn't in development but honestly it sounds like compression and other tools are simply cost effective then simply saying we have a 30 gig game available.

Including Blu-Ray on the PS3 was critical in Sony's battle for the next generation format war. If Sony had NOT included a Blu-Ray on the PS3, and sold it for cheaper money, it is probably true more units would've sold. HOWEVER - the trade off I believe will be worth it in the long run. Due to Sony's choice to include Blu-Ray in the PS3, there is are a vast majority of homes with Blu-Ray players in them as opposed to HD-DVD players. It was all a "big picture" idea for Sony to include the Blu-Ray player in the PS3. This is of course not mentioning the gaming advantages to developing on a platform with vastly greater storage capabilities than the Xbox 360.

Sometimes I wish Jaffe would keep his mouth shut. There's no doubt that God Of War is a thing of beauty and is fantastic game. I never got into the Twisted Metal series but it is certainly well respected. That being said, I don't understand why everyone gives Jaffe's words so much credence. It's nice to hear things from a developer standpoint, no doubt, but when a comment like "I probably would have taken the Blu-ray player out" is made that is so clearly short-sighted, I have to wonder why anyone cares what Jaffe's opinion on it is. Calling All Cars looks like a steaming pile if you ask me.

That said, it's nice to hear opinions, but I seriously think that everyone will be thanking Sony for putting Blu-ray into the thing. When you look at games like GOW II and Oblivion already seemingly hitting the threshold, you can't honestly tell me that the DVD format will be sufficient toward the end of the PS3's life cycle or even two years from now.


I am curious why of all people you think Jaffe as a developer comment about Blu-Ray is shortsighted. Do you honestly believe that the board of directors or designers 100% agreed and didn't debate it might be a bad/good idea to include BR. Same conversation with the 360 on not adding HD-DVD or for reasons they gave not HDMI to the orginal 360. Not everyone is going to agree within that company what the best course of action is going to be. They are taking a chance and so is MS with not including HDMI but they are on a confortable position to include HDMI and a new hardrive on a Elite. Honestly if it bombs and doesn't sale as much which personally I don't see how anyone really thinks the sales would be higher then the premium is dreaming. The Elite reminds me of the Home Theater PS2 that bombed in Japan a couple of years ago. It wasn't as expensive but that is how I look at it. Not too many are going to spend for the Elite when they just want to play games the majority of the time. But hey I see nothing wrong with taking risk, thats how it works in any buisness.

I'm glad Blu-Ray was included, I wouldn't have bought a PS3 at launch if it wasn't. But I've often thought that a PS3 with standard DVD and a full gig of RAM at about the same price as the 360 would be an awesome machine for games.

I don't think blu ray is the sole reason why the system is $599. Even if they did not include blu ray, the ps3 would probally be $499.

I guess Jaffe is in the minority...
Originally Posted by yoyoniner
Squaresoft

Toriyama and Versus producer Shinji Hashimoto defended the decision to release FFXIII on the PS3. According to Hashimoto, the development staff determined that one DVD would not be enough for the type of visual expression they were attempting to make. Toriyama noted that, regarding visual expression, the PS3's shader abilities are a big factor.

http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/710/710761p1.html

Ubisoft

OPM: How's your experience with the storage media of the PS3, the HDD and the BluRay disc? And do you have any comparable experience with HD-DVD technology?

M.M.: Our focus is 100% BluRay, so I cannot compare with HD-DVD. I can only say that the new BluRay disc format is truly awesome. The capacity is immense, and the Data Transfer Rate is way beyond what we are used to. And that's really important, because Data Streaming (OPMED: where the console constantly loads new data from disc) is truly the only way to push next-gen games to the limit. The Playstation 3 HDD is something that we have so far given less attention to, because it hasn't been certain all that long yet that it will be standard on every console. Decreasing load-times by copying a part of the game to the HDD is one possibility, though it doesn't matter all that much for a streaming game like ours. But there are tons of other applications, such as the possibility to as it were record your whole game, to be able to watch a replay of it later on. We intend to use the HD optimally, but how, I can't tell yet currently.

Starbreeze

"The 360 is a fantastic machine. I really really like it. The only thing, you know, that is going to cause trouble is the amount of storage space available on a DVD... thats really a problem."

http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=446554

Team Ninja

"The infamous Team Ninja front man has a thing or two to say about Microsoft's decision to assign standard DVD format to the Xbox 360. Limiting his development team to a measly 9GB does not sit well with Itagaki, especially when Team Ninja is looking to include any number of (MS-coveted) HD cut scenes. It's ironic that Microsoft has been the most outspoken about the "HD era", but is the least prepared for it… However, don't be surprised to see an Xbox 360.1 springing up in a year or two, complete with HD-DVD drive."

Last year, interview with Famitisu magainze, Itagaki explained his frustration with MS going with standard DVD format instead of going with HD-DVD. Since Japaneese developers love working on games in CG, now Itagaki san will face even more great challenge with xbox 360, or he can just switch over.

http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/05/i...60-limitations/

Enchant Arms

"The developer of "Enchant Arms," an upcoming role-playing game in Japan, told Gamespot.com last year it was hoping to be able to fit the game on two discs, but admitted "that's even looking grim." Any old school gamer can tell you that switching discs while playing is not a fun experience."

http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/05/com...aming/index.htm

Vivendi Universal

"The technical requirement for game development today demands more advanced optical-disc technologies," said Michael Heilmann, chief technology officer for Vivendi Universal.
"Blu-ray offers the capacity[.]"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4153813.stm

EA

"EA, a leading games developer and publisher, added that the delivery of high-definition games of the future was vital and Blu-ray had the capacity, functionality and interactivity needed for the kinds of projects it was planning."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4153813.stm

F1 06 developpers

Quote:
Q: Will the graphics improve from F1 05?

A: We try hard every year to improve where neccessary, but as I said before, the PS2 is running on it’s limits with the 22 cars. Graphically it is similar to F105, although we believe that the driving experience is much more rewarding with the new kerbing and the new phyiscs. The PS3, though, is something else! That machine is a Beast! We are adding an enormous amount of graphic detail to absolutely everything. To give you some idea about detail levels, one car in the PS3 game takes up the same amount of memory as all 22 cars in the PS2 version!! That’s a 22 fold increase! You can damage the sidepods on the PS3 cars and see in side the car and it has radiators and exhaust pipes and everything. It’s awesome. Gameplay-wise the PS3 also allows us to use much more accuarate collision models. In a PS2, the car has an invisible ”box” that detects collisions all the way around the car, but in the PS3, there is no single box – you can get the wheels interlocked with the other cars.

http://www.f1gamers.com/f1/apanel/v...p?id=130&page=4

Ninja Theory

Well i want to ask something if i may.Do you guys use/plan to use the extra space the blu-ray provides,for the benefit of the game,or its just to early for that yet?

Quote:Originally Posted by Arfi-Gorgona-O
Guys,someone to answer my question too?At least tell me if you cant so i wont ask again,even a no comment is good enough for me

Quote:Originally Posted by Ninja Mikey
[NT-DEV] Chief Technology Ninja

Sorry Arfi - let's see if we can't get you a decent answer....

"Yes!"

There you go

Seriously though the game is gonna need a whole lot of data for all the levels and characters that we are planning. At Sony's presentation on Monday last week they had a slide showing that the storage medium for a console is usually 100 times the size of the consoles main RAM - the point being that a DVD wouldn't be able to hold enough data for a AAA quality game. So yes, we'll definitely be needing the space that's available on the BD!

http://www.ninjatheory.com/forums/s...hp?t=111&page=3

Epic

http://www.computerandvideogames.co...e.php?id=125925

Unreal Tournament was 6GB compressed. Next Generation games are going to be 20GB plus, and how we're going to fit them on DVD9's I don't know, they'll probably be a few of them. On the PS3, we're going to be using the majority of the space on those Blu-ray disks. So, online isn't really the best option in some instances. Downloading 30Gb isn't really feasible.

I second that I wouldn't have gotten my PS3 at this time without Blu. I waited over a year after launch to get my 360.

"Shut your mouth, go to the store, buy a year supply of Hot Pockets and get your ass in the studio and give us GoW3"

Now there's a statement! Blu-Ray is whats making the PS3 right now, there are no games.

I wouldn't even be in this forum, let alone an owner of a PS3 if it wasn't for the Blu-ray drive being included in the PS3.

The PS3 needs Blu-ray like a Ferrari needs open speedlimitless roads. :)

Including Blu-Ray on the PS3 was critical in Sony's battle for the next generation format war. If Sony had NOT included a Blu-Ray on the PS3, and sold it for cheaper money, it is probably true more units would've sold. HOWEVER - the trade off I believe will be worth it in the long run. Due to Sony's choice to include Blu-Ray in the PS3, there is are a vast majority of homes with Blu-Ray players in them as opposed to HD-DVD players. It was all a "big picture" idea for Sony to include the Blu-Ray player in the PS3. This is of course not mentioning the gaming advantages to developing on a platform with vastly greater storage capabilities than the Xbox 360.

Exactly. Win win situation for us gamers :D

....thankfully Jaffe had no say so in the matter.

I guess Jaffe is in the minority...


Wasn't the majority of those comments like before the PS3 even launched? Like we are talking about E3 time both 05 and 06. Doesn't matter really if he is in the minority or not it is his opinion and He has developed 2 of the best games ever to come out. Still it is yet to be determined if it was a wrong move or not either way if he was the majority or minority. The same can be said about the Elite and the same was said about the 360 with DVD9. Wow look at where we are from a year from now.

Ditching Blu Ray and going with more RAM/faster cpu/gpu so that PS3 games can actually look better than 360 would be alot better for gamers.

Thats not why they shipped with the second disc. It is more attractive to ship 2 disc just like it is with DVD movies. They can put those same features on that disc and leave it at that but just like movies that say "2 disc set" it is even more attractive to get then it would be with a small print saying "plus bonus features" somewhere on the disc. About the 4-5 comment of games on disc wouldn't we be seeing that with more then just 1 game now with the 360 and Wii if compacity is such a big issue with developers. The bottom dollar is more important in the food chain then worries of disc compacity other wise we wouldn't be seeing developers making games for the 360 and being exclusive at that. You can say the same thing about the PS3 how many developers have games out right now that have taken whatever the advantage is to Blu-Ray. Not saying it won't happen and that it isn't in development but honestly it sounds like compression and other tools are simply cost effective then simply saying we have a 30 gig game available.
GoW2 alone took 7GB, leaving about 1GB for the extra content. there were quite a few hi-res videos on the second disc. they may have been able to fit it on a DVD9, but it would have been close. regardless, thats 720x480 resolution. God of war 3 will be at least 1280x720 which alone will add considerable size. add in the fact that GoW3 will be at least Dolby Digital (all ps2 games are Dolby Prologic) and that there will be extras that most likely will contain HD videos, and without question you will be over the size of a DVD9. it doesn't matter if its only 2GB or 20GB, there will be more space required.

surprisingly, Jaffe is the only one that has sided against the majority. i have not seen one other developer say blu-ray will not be needed.

Developers want more storage space, Jaffe may be concerned with current console sales. The PS3 is at 3 million right now, not bad for a $599 console. Consoles sales will come, but adding a next gen drive would of had to wait till 2010+.

The dude is pretty much burnt; likes to create "smaller" titles... well, I guess with smaller titles you wouldn't need blu-ray.

Developers want more storage space, Jaffe may be concerned with current console sales. The PS3 is at 3 million right now, not bad for a $599 console. Consoles sales will come, but adding a next gen drive would of had to wait till 2010+.

The thing is Sony is gonna have to reduce PS3's price by AT LEAST $150-200 within a year just to have a realistic shot of not finishing dead last in the US and possibly worldwide. Install base leads to the platform being the lead sku which leads to more exclusives and BR actually being used for more than a handful of 1st party games. As long as the 360 remains the base development platform for cross platform development BR will NOT be taken advantage of in any meaningful way while being a huge impediment to reducing PS3's price. Including BR in by far Sony's most successful current product really put Sony in a tough position.

The thing is Sony is gonna have to reduce PS3's price by AT LEAST $150-200 within a year just to have a realistic shot of not finishing dead last in the US and possibly worldwide. Install base leads to the platform being the lead sku which leads to more exclusives and BR actually being used for more than a handful of 1st party games. As long as the 360 remains the base development platform for cross platform development BR will NOT be taken advantage of in any meaningful way while being a huge impediment to reducing PS3's price. Including BR in by far Sony's most successful current product really put Sony in a tough position.
no they don't... and blu-ray WILL be taken advantage of with exclusives.
it seems to me that many people think this console war will end in just 1-2 years... theres still 5-7+ years to go... its just begun.

also, many people seem to think that Blu-ray is a proprietary format... Sony is a big part of blu-ray, but it is NOT a proprietary format. Sony is just one piece of the puzzle, as they were with other successful formats such as CD-R and DVD+RW.

no they don't... and blu-ray WILL be taken advantage of with exclusives.
it seems to me that many people think this console war will end in just 1-2 years... theres still 5-7+ years to do... its just begun.

Uh......unless PS3 sales start to pick up no devs are going to support the platform 2-3yrs down the road much less 5-7. Look at the GC, 3rd party software sales were abysmal, small install base and as a result in a couple of years it alot of 3rd party games were PS2/xbox only.

The thing is Sony is gonna have to reduce PS3's price by AT LEAST $150-200 within a year just to have a realistic shot of not finishing dead last in the US and possibly worldwide. Install base leads to the platform being the lead sku which leads to more exclusives and BR actually being used for more than a handful of 1st party games. As long as the 360 remains the base development platform for cross platform development BR will NOT be taken advantage of in any meaningful way while being a huge impediment to reducing PS3's price. Including BR in by far Sony's most successful current product really put Sony in a tough position.

I think you're wrong. Once developers get comfortable with the PS3 and the available tools to make that happen, you'll see better games coming out and more PS3's being sold. The truth is everyone would have you believe that the PS3 has been a flop so far in terms of sales when the fact really is it has been one of Sony's most successful launch ever. Sales have been right on pace with what the 360 did at launch and the games lineup is just as good if not better than what MS had when it launched.

I think Sony's current position in relation to the 360 is even more impressive considering that the 360 had a head start of a year. Sales paces in the opening months are pretty much dead on if you put the two side by side. Everybody bitches and moans about the price but the fact of the matter is that it is still selling and will only continue to get better once games like Heavenly Sword, FF XIII, MGS4 and Lair come out. If the product warrants the price and the software is there to support it, people will buy it. That's already been proven. BR is gravy on top at this point but will become indispensible as the games continue to get bigger and better.

The short-sighted attitudes in regards to this games generation is really something to behold. None of the systems have been out for even 2 years yet winners and losers are constantly being declared by fanboys all over the place. Couple that with the wannabe junior analysts everywhere and you've got some great reading entertainment available to you all over the internet. Fascinating stuff.

Uh......unless PS3 sales start to pick up no devs are going to support the platform 2-3yrs down the road much less 5-7. Look at the GC, 3rd party software sales were abysmal, small install base and as a result in a couple of years it alot of 3rd party games were PS2/xbox only.
3m in 4.5 months is not bad by any means (awaiting the typical response, "but, but, theres so many ps3's collecting dust in stores!")... i don't see why you think sales have to pick up. thats already nearly 1/3 of what the 360 sold. 2007 WILL be the ps3's weakest year as far as sales. not until 2008 will their big titles like MGS, FF and GT come out. after that, sales will pick up. and so far, were not seeing developers NOT supporting the ps3... were only seeing some exclusives being lost. its not like the ps3 is not getting any of these games.

and i can't believe you compared the ps3 to the GC.

Developers want more storage space, Jaffe may be concerned with current console sales. The PS3 is at 3 million right now, not bad for a $599 console. Consoles sales will come, but adding a next gen drive would of had to wait till 2010+.


I have yet to understand or see a game that takes advantage of it so what does it matter if it waited until 2010+? Resistance was not that game and it was 20 gig what new did it show besides the fact that it was 20 gigs.

I have yet to understand or see a game that takes advantage of it so what does it matter if it waited until 2010+? Resistance was not that game and it was 20 gig what new did it show besides the fact that it was 20 gigs.

Again, another short-sighted comment. 'It's not happening now so I don't need it.' For a console that is supposed to have a life-cycle of at least 7 years, why not show a little patience and look at the bigger picture? Do you really thing Resistance would have been as sweet as it is if it didn't have the ability to take advantage of the BR storage capacity?

I don't know about you, but I like the fact that my PS3 is future-proofed to a certain extent. My PS2 was the same way. Sony always takes flak for this kind of stuff early in the generation but it has played out in their favor in the past. The fact that I get a whoop-ass game system AND a Blu-ray player for $600 makes me very happy. But that's just me.

Again, another short-sighted comment. 'It's not happening now so I don't need it.' For a console that is supposed to have a life-cycle of at least 7 years, why not show a little patience and look at the bigger picture? Do you really thing Resistance would have been as sweet as it is if it didn't have the ability to take advantage of the BR storage capacity?

I don't know about you, but I like the fact that my PS3 is future-proofed to a certain extent. My PS2 was the same way. Sony always takes flak for this kind of stuff early in the generation but it has played out in their favor in the past. The fact that I get a whoop-ass game system AND a Blu-ray player for $600 makes me very happy. But that's just me.

I love the fact that my PS3 plays blu-ray, matter of fact thats what its mostly being used for as well as PS2 games. Problem is most people don't give a rat's ass about BR but do care about the price. Had the PS3 launched at $399 with DVD like xbox360, I GUARANTEE you that it would be dominating the NPD charts.

I love the fact that my PS3 plays blu-ray, matter of fact thats what its mostly being used for as well as PS2 games. Problem is most people don't give a rat's ass about BR but do care about the price. Had the PS3 launched at $399 with DVD like xbox360, I GUARANTEE you that it would be dominating the NPD charts.


100% agreed

Again, another short-sighted comment. 'It's not happening now so I don't need it.' For a console that is supposed to have a life-cycle of at least 7 years, why not show a little patience and look at the bigger picture? Do you really thing Resistance would have been as sweet as it is if it didn't have the ability to take advantage of the BR storage capacity?

I don't know about you, but I like the fact that my PS3 is future-proofed to a certain extent. My PS2 was the same way. Sony always takes flak for this kind of stuff early in the generation but it has played out in their favor in the past. The fact that I get a whoop-ass game system AND a Blu-ray player for $600 makes me very happy. But that's just me.


Sorry but I am not interested in purchasing potential of what MIGHT happen in the future. If the games I want were here today I would purchase the PS3 at its price but not for potential alone. years is too long. That actually doesn't make a lick of sense to me who really thinks we are going to be on a PS3 in 7 years. I will take that with a grain of salt for that comment when it was originally announced because when it was first announced for the PS3 they said it was a 10 year system. Things change and that is too long to expect or gurantee plans don't change.


And no one said you shoulnd't be unhappy about your purchase that is great if that floats your boat. Nothing to take away from that when that isn't even the point ot begin with.

And I am not sure what u mean by sweet about R-FOM that hasn't been done before besides it coming in at 20 gigs. I also don't understnad your comment of a guranteed future proof console if you are referring to BR.

PlayStations have always been built to last. they've had 2 consoles in the span of 11 years, and now just introduced the PS3. they're not going to change their ways for the people who want something cheaper and that doesn't have potential. the ps3 was built so we will see a nice evolution in games, just as previous PS systems were.

Sorry but I am not interested in purchasing potential of what MIGHT happen in the future. If the games I want were here today I would purchase the PS3 at its price but not for potential alone. years is too long. That actually doesn't make a lick of sense to me who really thinks we are going to be on a PS3 in 7 years. I will take that with a grain of salt for that comment when it was originally announced because when it was first announced for the PS3 they said it was a 10 year system. Things change and that is too long to expect or gurantee plans don't change.


And no one said you shoulnd't be unhappy about your purchase that is great if that floats your boat. Nothing to take away from that when that isn't even the point ot begin with.

And I am not sure what u mean by sweet about R-FOM that hasn't been done before besides it coming in at 20 gigs. I also don't understnad your comment of a guranteed future proof console if you are referring to BR.

Ok. You're entitled to your opinion. You don't think it's worth $600. I do.

I love the fact that blu-ray was included. It is a must buy for any HD lover :0

I would not have bought it had it not been for BR.

How anyone takes Jaffe seriously is beyond me. Can you say Napoleon complex?

Ok. You're entitled to your opinion. You don't think it's worth $600. I do.


I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying. I said it wasn't worth $600 just to wait on Potential. I will spend it when it actually arrives

The thing is Sony is gonna have to reduce PS3's price by AT LEAST $150-200 within a year just to have a realistic shot of not finishing dead last in the US and possibly worldwide. Install base leads to the platform being the lead sku which leads to more exclusives and BR actually being used for more than a handful of 1st party games. As long as the 360 remains the base development platform for cross platform development BR will NOT be taken advantage of in any meaningful way while being a huge impediment to reducing PS3's price. Including BR in by far Sony's most successful current product really put Sony in a tough position.

They will be reducing the price. There's even a rumor of a 100.00 price drop in time for the holiday season.

As far as cross platform games, no matter how successful BD becomes, 360 will still be the lowest common denominator for development. As a 3rd party developer why go the extra mile for the PS3 when they want the cash flow from both versions?

PS3 sales are approaching 3million units in 5months. Not really a tough position for a console that costs 500-600 bones. Think long term and out of the box. ;)

jaffe is creating small psn games, thats why he thinks its not needed. lets let cory answer that question when we see GOW3 running at HD resolutions with uncompressed audio (please oh please i wish more developers started utilizing this). i guarantee you that one will need the space that "isn't needed"

incidently, how many times have we heard the "its not needed" argument. i believe there is a pretty hilarious quote of bill gates saying something like 256 mb ram will not be needed. boy was he wrong.

jaffe is creating small psn games, thats why he thinks its not needed. lets let cory answer that question when we see GOW3 running at HD resolutions with uncompressed audio (please oh please i wish more developers started utilizing this). i guarantee you that one will need the space that "isn't needed"

incidently, how many times have we heard the "its not needed" argument. i believe there is a pretty hilarious quote of bill gates saying something like 256 mb ram will not be needed. boy was he wrong.

I know what quote you speak of, but Gates never said that. It's an urban legend of sorts.

As for whether not a larger capacity medium is needed... it's not needed to make stellar games this gen. Say what you want, but it's been proven so far. More capacity wouldn't mean better textures, as the frame buffer is only going to hold so much anyway. 2048x2048 Textures will fit on a DVD, and neither the 360 or the PS3 has the horsepower to stream 4096x4096 textures (unless of course, they do... which would be awesome...) having said that, it would be nice for things like HD video, lossless audio, or more commentary for sports games. I was hoping that Microsoft would leave it up to the developers to utilize the HD DVD drive. A larger medium could allow for those extra few touches that make a game better.

jaffe is creating small psn games, thats why he thinks its not needed. lets let cory answer that question when we see GOW3 running at HD resolutions with uncompressed audio (please oh please i wish more developers started utilizing this). i guarantee you that one will need the space that "isn't needed"

incidently, how many times have we heard the "its not needed" argument. i believe there is a pretty hilarious quote of bill gates saying something like 256 mb ram will not be needed. boy was he wrong.

are they even going to make GOW3 if jauffre isn't attached?

If Sony had dropped PS3 and gotten the system out earlier, they would have annihilated Microsoft and would be drinking the blood of Peter Moore right now. Seriously, Microsoft would be planning their complete exit of the console business by now.

Jaffe would rather have seen the complete destruction of the 360 than to have a PS3 with better specs.

are they even going to make GOW3 if jauffre isn't attached?

It's a cash cow, and Sony owns it outright. They will pump out more sequels whether Jaffe is involved or not. Barlog is really the new Jaffe in that franchise anyway.

are they even going to make GOW3 if jauffre isn't attached?

Someone's been playing too much Oblivion! :D

Someone's been playing too much Oblivion! :D

ROFL. Nice catch.

How shortsighted of anyone who says that games won't utilize BR this gen? PSone used CD's @700MB when the PS2 came out many first gen games for it were put out on CD's even though DVD's were available. It's going to be an evolution for developers. They aren't going to drop all of the compression techniques that they've been using for the last 5-10 years overnight and adopt new ones. And there is also the cost difference between BR disks and DVD's if a game is coming in at <1GB over a DVD9 then it might be more cost effective for a dev to increase compression or drop some content packages that can be added later through downloads. Compare it to gold fish, if you keep a gold fish in a small bowl they won't grow very large, if you put them in a larger bowl they will continue to grow they don't expand to the new size overnight though and some will grow larger faster than others. I don't think video games are done growing yet.

mboojigga, my understanding and I may be wrong, lossless audio takes up more space. As far as R:FOM goes I don't know what made it 16 gigs, but it does support lossless audio, something that the xbox 360 won't ever support this generation, due to MS being cheap with the elite.

http://www.proactionmedia.com/blu-ray_replication.htm
The current replication price for BD25 is $1.59
The current replication price for DVD9 is $0.69
Currently its about a wash, the replication price of 3 DVD9 is about the same as 1 BD25, BUT in a year or so, developers should be able to save on replication costs if they have a 9+ gig game.

3m in 4.5 months is not bad by any means (awaiting the typical response, "but, but, theres so many ps3's collecting dust in stores!")... i don't see why you think sales have to pick up. thats already nearly 1/3 of what the 360 sold. 2007 WILL be the ps3's weakest year as far as sales. not until 2008 will their big titles like MGS, FF and GT come out. after that, sales will pick up. and so far, were not seeing developers NOT supporting the ps3... were only seeing some exclusives being lost. its not like the ps3 is not getting any of these games.

and i can't believe you compared the ps3 to the GC.
Out of curiosity, are the numbers that Sony gives out how many units they shipped or how many units actually sold.

According to this blog (http://www.informationarbitrage.com/2007/04/microsoft_phili.html) (who did a lot of research), MS has been reporting their shipped numbers as their sales numbers, and overstocking their retailers with consoles.

I've seen the figures for sold units for the PS3 versus shipped (ala the Europe launch). But is all of the 3m reported as sold real? Or are they doing the same thing MS is doing?

Someone's been playing too much Oblivion! :D

GUILTY! :)

i loooooooooove that game. just got it the other day. sooo fun.

http://www.vgchartz.com/
FWIW, these are sales numbers, don't know where they got them.

I remember when the Pentium 100 chips came out and computer retailers would say, "Things aren't gonna get much better because there is nothing this chip can't do...you won't ever need a faster processor."

Hardware has a funny way of going beyond what the software needs of a particular time are and then software has a funny way of trying to utilize as much hardware resources as it can. The point is if hardware developers only developed for the the software needs at a particular time we wouldn't have much progress. With the exception of the Wii, the trend it to make more sophistacated hardware and let the programmers catch up.

This is also present in the storage format. Individuals who argue all we need is DVD-9 are missing the point. Programmers don't look at a blu-ray disc and say "all we need is dvd-9 so lets just leave the rest of the space open" they say "Hey, what should we do with extra space now that we have it." There will always be the "lowest common denominator" argument pertaining to multi-platform games - but the first and second part stuff is where the system will shine and the storage size stuff will make the most difference.

Add me in to the list of PS3 owners who would not own a PS3 at this time without Blu-ray.

jaffe is creating small psn games, thats why he thinks its not needed. lets let cory answer that question when we see GOW3 running at HD resolutions with uncompressed audio (please oh please i wish more developers started utilizing this). i guarantee you that one will need the space that "isn't needed"

incidently, how many times have we heard the "its not needed" argument. i believe there is a pretty hilarious quote of bill gates saying something like 256 mb ram will not be needed. boy was he wrong.

Anti-Sony Dreamcast fans also said DVD wasn't needed; History repeats.

http://www.proactionmedia.com/blu-ray_replication.htm
The current replication price for BD25 is $1.59
The current replication price for DVD9 is $0.69
Currently its about a wash, the replication price of 3 DVD9 is about the same as 1 BD25, BUT in a year or so, developers should be able to save on replication costs if they have a 9+ gig game.

Thanks for finding what those actually cost. Do you know if that is just the cost of materials, or does it include the costs for use of replication devices.
Anyway when you have a game that is forcast to be a hit you can see that there is some financial pressure to shoehorn it into a smaller package to increase the overall profit of the game. Using 1-DVD vs. 1-BR gives the producer an additional 1.5% proffit on a $60 game.
When you multiply those costs by 1,000,000 copies you get a difference of $900,000 for 1-DVD to 1-BR. A 2-DVD game costs $690,000 more than a 1-DVD game per million copies. If a Dev can invest $100,000 to increase compression to fit a game on one DVD as opposed to 2-DVD or 1-BR, the profit margins are potentially huge, of course if the game flops and sells 100,000 copies now you've got a situation where the DVD cost plus the additional investment of $100,000 makes the cost of additional copies greater than what it would have cost to put it on BR in the first place. Once games regularly go over the 1-DVD threshold there won't be much pressure to stick with DVD's as the 2-DVD replication only provides .35% additional profit over BR at the current prices and those will continue to get smaller as BR disk prices drop.

Anti-Sony Dreamcast fans also said DVD wasn't needed; History repeats.

i know. its actually quite amusing that people still seem to overlook what has happened in the past. they will be changing there tunes when their games start to get seriously limited (or multiple discs) and then have to purchase another xbox in 3 years. it will happen.

i know. its actually quite amusing that people still seem to overlook what has happened in the past. they will be changing there tunes when their games start to get seriously limited (or multiple discs) and then have to purchase another xbox in 3 years. it will happen.

Here's my hope. Last gen it started a little bit that cross platform games would get higher praise on the XBOX for having better graphics than the PS2. Perhaps this gen it evolves into wanting to get the PS3 version because more content will be available to you. Certainly depends on how development studios operate, but haven't we already seen it to a degree with Oblivion? Wasn't some of the add-on content for the 360 included on the disc for the PS3 version? Perhaps we'll see more scenarios like that.

Ultimately, it'll be first party development that really showcases the need for all that space. Or exclusives. How many times has Kojima said he's already pushing the limit? If all I get out of the bigger disc size is lossless audio, then it was well worth it. But I'm an audiophile, so go figure.

And mboojigga, sorry for the misinterpretation of your post. My apologies. I get frustrated with the increasing short-sighted arguments that are now everywhere and immediately lumped you into that category. Sorry for the confusion.

Yeah, I remember the days of the Toshiba laptop with the amber screen and the upgraded drive of 40MB with dos. "Yeah, it's $5,000.00 but there is no possible way you could fill that drive" is what I told a friend of mine... and then came windows.

Out of curiosity, are the numbers that Sony gives out how many units they shipped or how many units actually sold.

According to this blog (http://www.informationarbitrage.com/2007/04/microsoft_phili.html) (who did a lot of research), MS has been reporting their shipped numbers as their sales numbers, and overstocking their retailers with consoles.

I've seen the figures for sold units for the PS3 versus shipped (ala the Europe launch). But is all of the 3m reported as sold real? Or are they doing the same thing MS is doing?
not including all of march and april sales in North America, the last week of Japan, and the last 2 weeks for all of Europe/Australia, they were sitting at ~2.6m worldwide (adding up all the NDP, mediacreate numbers, and adding in the European news release numbers of 600k at launch). VGChartz has it at 3.15.

as for shipped/sold, MS counts shipped as sold afaik. Sony hasn't really announced any sold numbers yet, but they have said that they've shipped 4m worldwide as of March and they're aiming for 6m shipped pretty soon. so obviously the 3m is actual sold numbers, not shipped.

I have yet to understand or see a game that takes advantage of it so what does it matter if it waited until 2010+? Resistance was not that game and it was 20 gig what new did it show besides the fact that it was 20 gigs.


Resistance had 30 levels....Gears has like WAY less....

Bluray is where it is at....look 3 years down the road...The PS3 is truly next gen unlike the Xbox 360 with its DVD drive. 9GB is not enought 3 years from now.

The Wii is not even close to next gen...there is no harddrive and no online games and it wont even play back DVDs...its a gamecube with a nice controller.

But it does what it does.....

If microsoft counts units shipped then how does that work with all of the returns? Are they subtracted from the numbers?

what about bricked consoles? If you brick yours & buy a new one does the new one count again?

If microsoft counts units shipped then how does that work with all of the returns? Are they subtracted from the numbers?
There's no "if". The blog (http://www.informationarbitrage.com/2007/04/microsoft_phili.html) link I posted has a lot of compelling information. It cites some MS financial statements.

According to answer.com (http://www.answers.com/topic/channel-stuffing), it cites Investopedia as saying:
By channel stuffing, distributors temporarily beef up their accounts receivables. However, unable to sell the excess products, retailers will send the excess items instead of cash back to the distributor, who must readjust its accounts receivable and ultimately its bottom line. In other words, stuffing always catches up with the company, because it cannot maintain sales at the rate it is stuffing.

what about bricked consoles? If you brick yours & buy a new one does the new one count again?
I don't see why it wouldn't. I would think there would be no way of differentiating that factor from new purchases.

Bluray is where it is at....look 3 years down the road...The PS3 is truly next gen unlike the Xbox 360 with its DVD drive. 9GB is not enought 3 years from now.

The Wii is not even close to next gen...there is no harddrive and no online games and it wont even play back DVDs...its a gamecube with a nice controller.

But it does what it does.....


Okay I guess we will see in 3 years since you expect it to be all BR and basically the 360 just up and dies all because of the DVD?

Yet we are now a 1 1/2 with the 360 on the market and even today the 360 is being announced with new exclusive or games that used to be exclusive to the PS3 are now coming to the 360. But hey 3 years.....Okay.


Resistance had 30 levels....Gears has like WAY less....

Yet it was game of the year multi times and it is the number 1 game being played on Live.......again okay.

mboojigga, my understanding and I may be wrong, lossless audio takes up more space. As far as R:FOM goes I don't know what made it 16 gigs, but it does support lossless audio, something that the xbox 360 won't ever support this generation, due to MS being cheap with the elite.



Yeah I understand that but okay just like alot of products lossless is new. William you are a perfect example. How hard is it to believe that alot of gamers today still use their tv speakers and actually have no surround sound at all just like you just now got high-speed broadband after having dial-up for so long.

What a difference a day makes.

Yesterday, internet news sites like Digg.com and GameDaily.biz were on fire with a controversial story in which David Jaffe appeared to recommend dropping Blu-ray from the PlayStation 3. The sites included inflammatory headlines such as "Jaffe: I Would Not Have Included Blu-ray in PS3."

The only problem is, it's becoming increasingly clear that Jaffe didn't actually say this. A trusted source just told GamePro that "it looks like GameTrailers is trying to sensationalize this [controversy] by only using a snippet" of the interview, which is due to air in an upcoming segment.

"Jaffe actually answers that question by saying he thinks the PS3 is perfect the way it is," our source continues, "but in his personal opinion he would have removed Blu-ray to make it cheaper. He goes on to say that Sony is smarter than him when it comes to this stuff."

Sony also tells GamePro that "David Jaffe is an industry pioneer who has earned the right to speak his mind on anything he wants when it comes to videogames." Read the full story here.

Today's talking point: Game Trailers -- newsmakers or sensationalists? We'll have further analysis soon.



From gamepro.

Yet it was game of the year multi times and it is the number 1 game being played on Live.......again okay.
What does your comment have to do with Tripjammer's point that Gears of War's single player mode is not nearly as lengthy as Resistance: Fall of Man?

The point, is that the next Resistance: Fall of Man game, and I believe this is from the mouths of Insomniac, will feature streaming textures, just like Gears of War. Now, if we are to assume that the Resistance sequel is supposed to have a long story line like the first game, one would logically assume that a DVD9 disc will not be sufficient space to support this.

..How hard is it to believe that alot of gamers today still use their tv speakers and actually have no surround sound at all just like you just now got high-speed broadband after having dial-up for so long.

HUH!? TV Speakers for gaming!? That is sacreligous! Surround sound is as much as the experience as high def.

WTF?

WTF indeed.

Bonus Round Jaffe Controversy
http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=18539&type=wmv

i think it would bite him in the @ss later on. now they have 50gb's to fill up with 1080p mini sex games in GOW 3:cool:

Originally posted by mboojigga
Yeah I understand that but okay just like alot of products lossless is new. William you are a perfect example. How hard is it to believe that alot of gamers today still use their tv speakers and actually have no surround sound at all just like you just now got high-speed broadband after having dial-up for so long.
how did you know I just got broadband? Damn microsoft for offering LIVE before I got broadband, damn them to hell!;)

I can't imagine playing R:FOM without surround speakers. I use my surround speakers to find all the killing action around me. It must suck not to have 5.1 or better...

HUH!? TV Speakers for gaming!? That is sacreligous! Surround sound is as much as the experience as high def.

WTF?


WTF indeed yet it is a fact that not every PS3 or 360 is playing in surround sound in someones home. Just like not everyone is on broadband as widely available as it is. Sad but true.

how did you know I just got broadband? Damn microsoft for offering LIVE before I got broadband, damn them to hell!;)


I remember while I was deployed you mention getting it around the time you before or after you picked up your PS3.

I can't imagine playing R:FOM without surround speakers. I use my surround speakers to find all the killing action around me. It must suck not to have 5.1 or better...


I am the same way I love my surround sound just like I love my HD and SXRD.

What does your comment have to do with Tripjammer's point that Gears of War's single player mode is not nearly as lengthy as Resistance: Fall of Man?

The point, is that the next Resistance: Fall of Man game, and I believe this is from the mouths of Insomniac, will feature streaming textures, just like Gears of War. Now, if we are to assume that the Resistance sequel is supposed to have a long story line like the first game, one would logically assume that a DVD9 disc will not be sufficient space to support this.


so lets get this straight. Your saying for BR it takes more space then what GOW did just to add in some of those features you mention just to do what GOW did on DVD9?

So when GOW2 comes out and it lets say it looks better then the first and it is a longer game then what? We will be right back where we started if that is the case.

so lets get this straight. Your saying for BR it takes more space then what GOW did just to add in some of those features you mention just to do what GOW did on DVD9?

So when GOW2 comes out and it lets say it looks better then the first and it is a longer game then what? We will be right back where we started if that is the case.

undoubtedly they will be able to pack more into a DVD9 by the time Gere's of Whore2 (It must be spelled out here since GOW=God of War on the PS forum) comes out but that doesn't change the fact that it will be limited to filling the same amount of space, unless you expect to get download after download to supplement it, happy birthday core system users and even 20GB users will feel that pinch. Please insert disc 2 Master Chief.

so lets get this straight. Your saying for BR it takes more space then what GOW did just to add in some of those features you mention just to do what GOW did on DVD9?

So when GOW2 comes out and it lets say it looks better then the first and it is a longer game then what? We will be right back where we started if that is the case.

No, because it still won't have lossless audio.

I think that it would have been better to have it as a add on or wait for the ps4 to include the blue ray drive. the price of including it in this console has created a massive headache for sony and given Microsoft a price and timing advantage. Remember it was the blue ray drive that caused the delays as well as the additional costs.

No, because it still won't have lossless audio.

Nobody will care. Just like nobody cared that the original Xbox was the only gaming platform in exsistence that could do discrete digital 5.1 in games at the time.

Everyone saying that Blu-ray is needed for gaming this gen, I wonder how many owned an OG Xbox. I was one of the ones that argued that a HDD was needed for stellar games. I see now It wasn't. and it still isn't. Beneficial? Heck yes. Needed? Nope. That's how many feel about Blu-Ray for gaming. It's not as if 360 games are suddenly going to become crappy in comparison due to not having a next-gen optical drive.

I think that it would have been better to have it as a add on or wait for the ps4 to include the blue ray drive. the price of including it in this console has created a massive headache for sony and given Microsoft a price and timing advantage. Remember it was the blue ray drive that caused the delays as well as the additional costs.
Sony knew the ps3 will be sticking around for at least 5-6 years. again, they only released 2 consoles in the span of 11 years. how can you guys say that the space won't be required for games in 2010-2013 considering most developers have said that more space WILL be required? i think ill take developers words over people who just want a cheaper alternative.

theres no doubt the ps3 would sell better if it were cheaper and they just put a DVD drive in there. but sony is looking long term here, and they know what they're doing.

Everyone saying that Blu-ray is needed for gaming this gen, I wonder how many owned an OG Xbox. I was one of the ones that argued that a HDD was needed for stellar games. I see now It wasn't. and it still isn't. Beneficial? Heck yes. Needed? Nope. That's how many feel about Blu-Ray for gaming. It's not as if 360 games are suddenly going to become crappy in comparison due to not having a next-gen optical drive.
those of you saying blu-ray is not needed don't know anything. are you a developer? have you even been involved making a game before? most developers have said space WILL be required, and unless you've made a game before, you have no right to say otherwise.

those of you saying blu-ray is not needed don't know anything. are you a developer? have you even been involved making a game before? most developers have said space WILL be required, and unless you've made a game before, you have no right to say otherwise.

Well, I've done my fair share of mods.. I'm good enough with Maya and 3DSM... I've taken classes on game design, so I'm not completely oblivious to game development... but no, I'm not a developer.

But you make it sound as if devs speak gospel, and we all KNOW that isn't true. I believe a Factor 5 dev said simething to the effect of, "HDMI really alows the graphics to shine." Even though we all know that's simply not true, clearly he must be right since he is a dev.

Devs ARE wrong occasionally. Sometimes they say things that make me wonder if they know what they're talking about.

I mean, what are all devs just going to stop making games for 360 in the future? No, they're going to keep making great games on DVD9 like they're doing now. It's going to be the same as the situation with the Xbox HDD. The PS3 versions of multi-platform games may incorporate features that take advantage of the increased capacity, but I can guarantee that no third party devs is going to cancel the 360 version of a game simply because it has to be on DVD9.

Sorry but I am not interested in purchasing potential of what MIGHT happen in the future. If the games I want were here today I would purchase the PS3 at its price but not for potential alone. years is too long. That actually doesn't make a lick of sense to me who really thinks we are going to be on a PS3 in 7 years. I will take that with a grain of salt for that comment when it was originally announced because when it was first announced for the PS3 they said it was a 10 year system. Things change and that is too long to expect or gurantee plans don't change.


And no one said you shoulnd't be unhappy about your purchase that is great if that floats your boat. Nothing to take away from that when that isn't even the point ot begin with.

And I am not sure what u mean by sweet about R-FOM that hasn't been done before besides it coming in at 20 gigs. I also don't understnad your comment of a guranteed future proof console if you are referring to BR.

If you werent interested in buying a console for "potential" why did you buy the ps3? You knew what games it would have during the launch. Since you seem to not be a fan of resistance Im guessing you didnt buy the ps3 for the awesome launch titles. You must have bought the system for seomthing that was coming aka potential.

but I can guarantee that no third party devs is going to cancel the 360 version of a game simply because it has to be on DVD9.

i couldn't agree more. like i said in another thread, i really believe only the major FP or HUGE 3p exculsives will really push the ps3. i have both, so i don't care, but i think the 360's ease of development will make that the standard dev platform, and multiplatforms will be ported from that to the ps3.

unless we continue to see staggered releases, like on RB6:Vegas. I'm sure that will have extra ps3 stuff... but they're not going to re-render the entire game, drastically increasing the budget. it already looks great.

this is just my opinion.

The 360's technical shortcomings will hamper many games on the PS3. Remember.....lowest common denominator. If the 360 had Blu Ray and something like the cell then games wouldbe built that utilize the cell and Blu rays capacity. But now it will only be PS3 exclusives.

Foe multiplatformers no company is going to make a game longer or better in a meaningful way on the PS3 because that would piss off theri other customer....MS.

But thats why we can look forward to PS3 exclusives and some of the great things in store on a technical level.

so lets get this straight. Your saying for BR it takes more space then what GOW did just to add in some of those features you mention just to do what GOW did on DVD9?

So when GOW2 comes out and it lets say it looks better then the first and it is a longer game then what? We will be right back where we started if that is the case.
Do you honestly believe that they can improve the texture quality, maintain texture streaming, achieve greater than 720p resolution, and extend the amount of single player time on one DVD9 even though they are hitting 6+ gb of disc space currently, when the usable disc space is under 8 gb on a DVD9?

If you werent interested in buying a console for "potential" why did you buy the ps3? You knew what games it would have during the launch. Since you seem to not be a fan of resistance Im guessing you didnt buy the ps3 for the awesome launch titles. You must have bought the system for seomthing that was coming aka potential.


Not sure what you are confused about but I have stated I will actually buy it when the games I want are available for it and not being announced for the 360

Do you honestly believe that they can improve the texture quality, maintain texture streaming, achieve greater than 720p resolution, and extend the amount of single player time on one DVD9 even though they are hitting 6+ gb of disc space currently, when the usable disc space is under 8 gb on a DVD9?


you keep forgetting about compression tools. Tools that were also used with Resistance on a BR disc. They are the developers they know more then me we will wait and see won't we.

Plus you make it sound as if like the game could not be longer. The same goes for movies you know. You have a story and go from there

Not sure what you are confused about but I have stated I will actually buy it when the games I want are available for it and not being announced for the 360


PlayStation Area
This area is for the PlayStation systems chat. If you are not an PlayStation user, this is NOT the place for you.

It appears you are the one confused, this is a playstation forum and you don't seem to have one. I don't mind non-PS users posting on here to ask questions if they don't know about things, but you seem to have all the answers (even if they aren't the correct ones) so I don't know why you feel the need to inject yourself into this discussion about the PS3

mboojigga, be careful.

You seem to be attempting to bash the PS3 in both forums. I just closed your "Halo 3 Will Put Xbox 360 Further Ahead of PS3" thread in the Xbox forum.

Keep it up and you will be taking a vacation from AVS.

Kyser