I got "Payback"- the directors cut the other day and enjoyed the hell out of it. For about an hour. Picture and sound were great. Then all of a sudden with ,if memory serves about 20 minutes left Mel says "just drive baby" and the movie was over!! No Kris Kristofferson, no smashed toes, no cutting through the back seat of the limo, no kidnapping of the son, no boxing match and finally no apartment blow up. The latter being the best part of the movie and the plot device by which Mel CAN say "just drive baby" cuz he knows his trbl is behind him. What a disappointing piece of crap. This would be something I would want my money back if I had bought it. It was a Netflix rental.

Good thing it was a rental.... you seem pretty pissed.

This was my criticism of what the director's cut was supposed to be as well when I heard about it. I enjoyed immensely Kristofferson's part, etc. Does the disk have the "other" cut? This would be the best way to deal with this release. It's one of my favourite movies from Gibson.

I've only seen this version so I really liked it. May buy the first DVD to compare. To bad they didn't have both versions on this

I loved the theatrical release but thought the Directors cut was just as good. I miss the whole kidnapping part as well as the humor, but a darker Porter was nice to see.

Have people really rented or bought this title not realising the final act is completely different to the theatrical and that it's much shorter?

I think the removal of the voice over and more natural colours in the Directors cut are inprovements over the Theatrical. I also think the blue tone of the Theatrical would have made the PQ worse. You'll know what I mean when you watch the extras and relate it to what they did with Superman Returns.

It is a shame they didn't do a two disk set with the theatrical on a second disk. But I guess they only had the budget to restore the original. Why would the director, who originally got sacked do an encode of the Theatrical and include it on his Directors cut release. I wouldn't expect a Directors cut of any movie to realistically contain the original version too.

Read up on the history of the movie (it's discussed in the existing "Payback on HD DVD" thread.) Better yet, watch the docs on the disc - they explain everything. Basically, a new third act was written and filmed for the movie because the scripted version wasn't testing well. They changed the tone of the movie and removed some of the more "sociopathic" scenes.

Having never seen the theatrical version, I went into the director's cut fairly fresh. I really liked this version and from what I've seen of the theatrical version (in the clips shown on the doc) I'm not sure I want to even bother with it. That voice-over sounded hokey and out of place - it doesn't really run through the whole movie, does it?

I think saying it "may be the biggest rip-off in history" is a tad extreme, especially since it was a rental. I, for one, am against watering down flicks to appeal to the masses. This is a genre movie - it's not supposed to be a Lethal Weapon-type movie and it never was. I liked the hard edge the movie had. I liked that it wasn't family-friendly.

I'm mighty glad i decided to skip over this one.Though my reasoning was because of the 5 discs i'll be buying between the 17th-24, i'm still glad it kept me from wasting my money on such a disappointment that Payback DC was obviously.

I guess I'm getting DVE instead. Glad I read this post before tomorrow.

Lucy Liu as a dominatrix still makes the disc worth the $20. :D

I thought it was better than the theatrical version. They both have their merits though. Picture quality was fanatastic.

I thought it was better than the theatrical version. I don't like the Sugar Coated. P/C one. Screw Being PC. Like when mel said on the special features. why certain scenes were cut like him beating the junky whore. and shooting the guy in the back of the Truck for mouthing off his GF.

I like that stuff. the senseless Killing/Violence. like the Original Director said. "His movie was made for a certian audience." and if you don't like it, then skip it.

The studio/Mel, changed the movie and added in stupid scenes to sugar coat it so a wider audience could laugh at it. in reality it wasn't suppostu be funny.

Lucy Liu as a dominatrix still makes the disc worth the $20. :D
Was anything cut or added to her part in this version?
Thanks.

Was anything cut or added to her part in this version?
Thanks.
Not that I can recall. This version was great. Quite different from the theatrical release, but great nonetheless.

PQ was very good as well.

Was anything cut or added to her part in this version?
Thanks.

Her first scene with Gregg Henry was cut quite a bit. The part where she beats the crap out of him before his meeting with David Paymer was left out.

This was definitely the weakest version of Payback that I've seen. The theatrical cut and the original director's cut were both superior.

The biggest problem with the "Straight Up" cut is that horrible new score(along with the removal of almost all the songs), some of the footage they left out, and Mel getting away with the money at the end. In the original director's cut, the homeless dude who's pushing the shopping cart towards Porter as he's laying on the sidewalk bleeding to near death picks up the bag and makes off with it.

I also prefered the blue look it originally had.

I liked the new score, when watching the movie, I definitely thought to myself that this movie could have been made in 1974. Watching the making of docs showed that is what they were going for.

Well... count me in as fan of the "Straight-Up" cut

Loved the new tone of the film, the color, music and the new third act. :D

I have to admit... I really didn't miss Kris Kristofferson or his kid. :p

Glad to see Deborah Unger got little more screen time.

I agree that it's shame Paramount did not make this a 2-Disc set and include the "Theatrical" version, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's released later down the line ($$$ for them)

Could the Mods put *spoilers* in the thread title, please?


There was a discussion of this in the Blu-ray forum and someone gave a link to a very detailed comparison of this cut to the book, Mel's version, and a 70's version. All of the same story, but all completely different. It was a fantastic breakdown of the versions.

Unfortunately, I'm so tired with now that I don't feel like searching for the thread... Type "Payback" in the Blu-ray forum, I'm sure you'll come across it.

I prefer the Director's Cut over the theatrical. It does have more of a 70s genre feel to it.

Hmm..
;)

I really liked Payback, but haven't seen it in a quite a while. (The DVD disappeared into the void known as relatives.) I was looking forward to this HD directors cut. But the descriptions here make me wonder. I really liked the original film, and this almost sounds like a different movie. I wouldn't mind having this version, but if its substantially changed from the theatrical, as opposed to being an enhanced version (e.g. Lord of the Rings), I don't think I'd buy it if it doesn't include the theatrical release also.

I like both cuts but would have much rather had the theatrical cut than the straight up edition on hd dvd it is more of a complete film to me

I knew a thread like this was coming, so I guess I'll throw in my two cents...

I have been a fan of the theatrical version, though I did not know the history of the production before recently. I don't care for the practice of taking a film away from a director, particularly when the film is actually a director's "vision". Brian Helgeland also wrote and conceived the film, so the original version truly was "his". Changing it based on test audience screenings and the opinions of a few studio hacks is not the sort of thing I like. If a movie is "bad", then that's just the way it is. Not everything a studio makes is a masterpiece, so you should just live with it and take it for what it is. In the case of Payback, the resulting studio version that was finally released was a pretty good movie, at least in my opinion. In retrospect, certainly more commercial, but that is not necessarily a bad thing.

That said, I have now watched both the documentary on the film's checkered production history as well as the movie itself. Based on comments from a couple of friends that has seen the director's cut before me, I was actually prepared to not like Helgeland's version having rather enjoyed the theatrical version. Not so.

I consider the director's cut to be a superior version of the film, and very true to the spirit of the genre Helgeland was trying to evoke. Everything about the director's version plays better. The script and editing are tighter and more cohesive. The changes in color timing add to the atmosphere of the different sets and locations. The character of Porter now seems more like what he is supposed to be, a lowlife thief and killer with a bad attitude and a right cross to match.

I thought I might miss the theatrical version. I don't. Payback: Straight Up is a director vision that has finally and rightfully found an audience.

The problem with the theatrical version of the film is they made Gibson's character a nice guy towards the end. Porter, as originally conceived, was a guy with no redeeming qualities who just wanted his money and to hell with anyone who got in his way. The "screw you Mr. writer/Director" version from the studio added multiple cute lines for Gibson to be funny or "nice", had him somehow save the dog (the dumbest ****ing thing in the movie) and get all lovey dovey with Maria Bello. It's such a shift in tone and it is simply BS.

It's astonishing how the studio threw a fit over the dog thing. Let me tell you, audiences GROAN when the dog somehow manages to live. It's such an old cliche that is makes most people roll there eyes. But, as the director said, a female studio executive sent him notes saying that she doesn't understand why the asian guys are so mad at David Paymer and kill his character. That stupid woman was so brain dead that she could not figure out that they were shooting at Porter, who was in the car! That is the mentality he was up against and why he was eventually removed from the film.

Now, I do wish this director's cut had a different score, or just used the temp score from the test screenings (the music is amazingly perfect. Better than you can imagine). And I wish it kept stuff in the film, such as a couple of Lucy Lui lines, a scene where David Paymer almost gets his head crushed by a car and the outstanding sequence that shows how Gibson got into The Outfit's super secure building (where William Holden was located - that scene was cut from the theatrical version as well). Why the director cut that stuff, I don't know, but it's his movie. On the commentary and in interviews he admits that the passage of time has meant this cut is not exactly what his earlier final cut would have been.

Still, I much prefer this version of the film and will never, EVER watch the other one again.

The Three and a Half Worlds of Parker (http://www.impossiblefunky.com/archives/issue_11/11_parker.asp?IshNum=11)

As I mentioned in post #18, here's the article about the differences between all the movie versions.

Hmm, after hearing a few more sides I may have to give the director's cut a look.
I remember not being that impressed with the movie originally.
Caricatures instead of characters, too long, loss of focus and some of the "Lucy" scenes were ludicrous imo.
Now in my Netflix queue.
Thanks.

I like both cuts but would have much rather had the theatrical cut than the straight up edition on hd dvd it is more of a complete film to me


i agree completely. i dont mind that they changed the score or the look of the movie in the directors cut. i am a big fan of the theatrical version, and had i watched the directors cut w/out ever seeing the theatrical, than i would be a big fan of the DC as well. however, i feel that the ending to the theatrical version is much stronger. the DC is still a good movie, but i would much rather have the theatrical version

Having enjoyed the past theatrical release, I purchased and watched this HD this week. I'll have to say I enjoyed it, thought it was worth the purchase and look forward to re-watching it again in the future.

I think some just cant accept change and it being changed from what they originaly saw in the past ruins it for them. I wonder if the directors cut was the first to be seen by the public what people would be saying now.

Anyway although I do agree the foot smashing was a great previous part I thought this version of the movie was even more violent and more then made up for missing this scene

The director's cut was widely seen as a bootleg for years and many saw it before the theatrical version and those that did pretty much cannot stand the studio cut. I am one of those. Basically people prefer the version they saw first because it is what they know, though some here have said they were surprised to find they liked this director's cut after having liked the theatrical cut for years.

bring on the directors cut! i can't wait.

I got "Payback"- the directors cut the other day and enjoyed the hell out of it. For about an hour. Picture and sound were great. Then all of a sudden with ,if memory serves about 20 minutes left Mel says "just drive baby" and the movie was over!! No Kris Kristofferson, no smashed toes, no cutting through the back seat of the limo, no kidnapping of the son, no boxing match and finally no apartment blow up. The latter being the best part of the movie and the plot device by which Mel CAN say "just drive baby" cuz he knows his trbl is behind him. What a disappointing piece of crap. This would be something I would want my money back if I had bought it. It was a Netflix rental.
Hate to disagree with you...but I watched the movie last night and absolutely loved it!!! :)
They only changed the plot a bit, but it still works.

I almost returned this movie because of your statement here: if memory serves about 20 minutes left Mel says "just drive baby"

...thank God I didn't. The movie didn't suddenly end, they added 20 minutes of new footage! :rolleyes:

Buy this movie the PQ is AWESOME!!! :)

I really like the new score; it gives it a Peter Gunn type flair that suits the action very well.

I really like the new score; it gives it a Peter Gunn type flair that suits the action very well.
Thanks for reminding me...that is the only thing I didn't prefer over the original.

I really loved the original version of this movie. I bought the director's cut on HD DVD and should get it in the next few days. From what I've heard about the new cut on here I think I love this version even more. I'll let you know after I see it. If they release the original in HD DVD I'd probably get it as well.

Well, I watched the director's cut last night and I loved it. I loved the new scenes including the new ending, the new look, and even the new music. It really is an all around better film IMHO. I'm really glad I bought this one blind.

I consider the director's cut to be a superior version of the film

PQ was very good

Well I finally got/watched the Director's Cut of Payback. In short, it's ok but I thought the Theatrical version far more entertaining. The ending for the Director's Cut was standard shootout fair whereas the theatrical version had a nice twist to the death of the bad guys.

And sorry, in a "Syndicate" to have a woman the head of it was not convincing in any fashion. The Syndicate I take to be another name for the Mafia/Cosa Nostra - an extremely misoginist criminal organization (except in Sicily now where many of the men are in jail or dead and thus some women are left to take over the reigns).

And the DIrector's Cut isn't so dark as being portayed here. Indeed it has the same sporadic humor and dark aspects of the theatrical version. Not to say the DC is bad it just doesn't come off as entertaining. And I prefer Mel's voiceover in the theatrical version.

As far as PQ. As is noted in the extras by the director and photographer, various color filters were applied, grain etc. to give a gritty and grimey sense to the movie. Unfortunately this also effects the high def aspect of this film - 3/5 for PQ.

I agree with the OP, I was NOT impressed with the DC, and felt like the movie cut off way early. Heck, it didn't bust 90 minutes!

Boo, hiss from myself and my wife.

FYI,

The best version of this movie is called "Point Blank" with Lee Marvin.

The director (Hegeland) attempted to film a "Parker" movie but Mel wanted to be more"accessable" to the audience. In the books Parker (Porter) is not a nice guy. Has very little emotion to spare. That is the true inspiration for the character.

I originally loved "Payback" (hell I even got the poster framed in my HT room!).
When I heard of the release of the directors cut I had to have it. It was one of the key motivators in purchasing a HD DVD player.

My hope is that this will energize the franchise of "Parker" and someone will give it the treatment it deserves. Originally it was supposed to become a series of films for Mel but after the in-fighting on "Payback" he walked away from it.

I am looking forward to seeing this new version but I am not seeking the first film. I am hopeful of a true "Parker" movie.

If you didn't like it check out "Point Blank" the SD DVD version is really quite good.
Plus some strong character portrayals by Angie Dickenson and Carroll O'Connor(pre Archie).

Quentin Tarantino cites"Point Blank" as inspiration for Reservoir Dogs.

I enjoyed this version quite a bit. Ironically I probably never would have checked it out if it weren't for this thread. Thanks OP.

yeah i found the original theatrical release to be to overly polished. to many people had their hands in on it is what i guess i am trying to say.
i absolutely loved the directors cut. and i am glad this version made it to hddvd