Hello! I'm looking to HD up the last holdout of my A/V setup, my camcorder. However, it seems to me there isn't a current HDV cam that combines a single CCD pricepoint with decent build/handling. In searching the threads, it seems that the Sony HDR-HC1 had a manual focus ring a telescopic viewfinder, and excellent PQ. Yet, certain consumer products supplanted that. In the Sony line, the HC3 brought lower lux capability and HDMI out, followed by OIS in the 5 and a manual focus "wheel" on the 7 -- all with steadily increasing PQ. Then Canon pops out the HV20 with 24p. There's a lot of debate here about the build quality and handling of the HC7 and HV20, but honestly, after trying them out in the store, the build and handling on both are rather poor. Instead, Sony's recent AVCHD offering HDR-SR1 has both a real manual focus ring and a decent viewfinder. Only problem is that it uses the lower bitrate/higher compression format, that's not easily editable on NLEs. Also, JVC has their HDD based cam that sports a manual ring and more robustish build (while I haven't seen one in person -- the fact that it's not HDV matters to the point I'm making, plus persiannight's excellent comparison showed that the higher bit rate met with poor compression, so HDV still wins).

So, long story short, why isn't there a semipro, decent handling modern HDV camcorder? Is HDV somehow passe? I see more people "viewing" the AVCHD boards over at Camcorderinfo.com's forums. But that can't be right, the high bit-rate and the dominance of HDV at the pro level makes it clear that manufacturers realize they have the best PQ format with HDV. Is this just a peculiar, coincidental window in time, when manufacturers are directing their energy at mainstreaming and consumerizing HDV for the masses, and the semipros are just around the corner?

Personally, I don't have to purchase until October when Gaius arrives (the fake name we're telling people, my wife came up with it). But if I had to pick today, it would be between the 2 year old Sony HC1 (for excellent PQ and decent handling) if I can find a new one from a reputable dealer, and the 2 week old Canon HV20 (for 24p and stunning PQ). But I just don't want to make that choice, since this huge gap seems to exist from my standpoint, and something just right belongs in the line-up.

Am I crazy? Am I spending too much time reading AVS, Camcorderinfo, Amazon and B&H reader reviews, and interrogating inept Best Buy blueshirts and the vastly more informed customers just checking for inventory? Are there better ways to spend a Sunday morning?

To put it another way, where is the Digital Rebel of HDV? In digital photography, there are point and shoot cameras that have poor manual controls, image delays, and poor customization offerings, but produce good enough pictures in a portable form factor. These cost a couple hundred bucks. Then you have pro digital SLRs that do eveything, interchangeable lenses, stunning build and PQ, but massive form factors, these cost $1500 and up. Then Canon waltzes in with the best of both worlds: instant images, interchangeable lenses, smallish build for a DSLR, and price of 1000 when it was released. I bought one right away, recently upgraded it to the Digital REbel XTi. This line has been a runaway bestselling success for Canon.

Where is the HDV equivalent??? ???

??

Huh?

Oh, and before these messages start to get annoying, I hereby promise not to:

1. Use racist slurs, instead I will always type "JPN" whenever I am too lazy to type "Japanese"

2. Issue a stern list of demands slash RFP to be performed for free

3. Capitalize the word "deck"

4. Call 24p a gimmick

5. Call night-vision a gimmick

6. Ask you to pick the camcorder for me

7. Over-fetishize pet features

There, that's good enough, right?

Just get the HV20, and get on to more important stuff like decorating Gaius's (?) nursery room.

Well I've had the HC1, HC3 and the HV10 & HV20 and IMO the Canons just produce a more professional, lower noise, sharper picture with better colors. That's not too bad right? Yes, the HC1 felt more solid, but again, IMO, it's the picture that counts. The HC20 feels just fine in my hands. I never get the feeling it's going to fall apart. I've also had my share of mechanical problems with small Sony cams, so I know full well that appearances can be deceiving.

With that said, if you're really looking for more bells & whistles, I would suggest you look at a camera like the Sony FX7 or Canon A1. Yes, they're more money, but if you really feel you need more 'stuff' then for you it may be the way to go. I've also got the FX7 and feel the little HV20 does a better job with HD video.

I haven't handled the Canon A1, but my impression from reading reports, is that the A1 will have the best PQ in the most varied lighting conditions. But for nearly 4X the price, it should! There are many A1 owners who insist in many lighting conditions the HV20 is every bit as good. But the A1 will do better in poor lighting.

Oh yes, HDV camcorders do have better picture quality than any non-tape based units thus far. Will that change? Perhaps, but who knows? In the meantime, HDV cams will continue to improve.

I find that the HV-20 is "dRebel" enough for my purpose. Ergonomics is just not there, but I hate Sony's even more. Regarding interchangeable lens... well even the Cdn $4,600 Canon A1 doesn't have that feature.

I own an A1 but the size makes it impossible for most of my family travels.

What I really want to see is something about 50% larger than HV-20, priced around Cdn $2,000 but with zoom control and record button on the camera handle.

PS: for point-and-shoot usage, the HV-20 is every bit as good as the A1. Lower light, obviously, the A1 trumps the HV-20 due to the relatively larger surface area picking up the light.

There ARE semi-pros, but I suppose you want one for $1000 usd?
That aint gonna happen :)

Thanks all for the feedback, agreed Ken it's PQ that's paramount. I am indeed leaning toward the HV20, and will get it if nothing better comes out before October.

I'm not really looking for interchangeable lenses, but rather a professional capture experience and result.

I am prepared to spend $2000 for this, but I don't see a modern semipro HDV in that range. The old Sony HC1 was that cam on release two years ago, but the PQ just isn't a match for the crazy gorgeous shots from the HV20. That is a very semipro result.

The main hangup for me is that I've learned a lot about photography by exploring the manual features of the Digital Rebel series, and would like to be able to explore manual features on the camcorder.

So I'm relatively set on the HV20 for myself, my only point was to question the gap in the $2K semipro HDV line. Seems like a lost opportunity for both manufacturer and customer.