As much as I like what I'm seeing with the 61/65 series Samsungs, the off-axis performance is leaving me thinking like I'll wait to see how well the new 81 Series (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=788306) fares with its LED backlights.

Anyone else in the same camp?

im holding out for 1080p 100/120 Hz lcd like 71-series samsung.

What are the differences between the 71 series vs. 81 series vs. 65 series? I'm seriously considering the 5265F ... but am willing to wait for these if they offer enough "new" features.

I hope to compare the Samsung 81 to the Toshiba LX177. However, I read that the Samsung 81 will be offered up to 40 inches maximum and since I will be sitting at least 16 feet away I would want at least a 57 inch screen(minimum). If Samsung were to make an announcement of a larger screen size, I would re-evaluate my choices.

I was going to dump my LN-S4692 for the LN-T4661 but I think I will wait at-least until the 81 comes out.

I hope to compare the Samsung 81 to the Toshiba LX177. However, I read that the Samsung 81 will be offered up to 40 inches maximum and since I will be sitting at least 16 feet away I would want at least a 57 inch screen(minimum). If Samsung were to make an announcement of a larger screen size, I would re-evaluate my choices.

Where did you hear that? Information is scant, but fwiw here's at least one article that states they'll have a 57":

http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/01/07/samsung.lcd.with.led.light/

:D Where did you hear that? Information is scant, but fwiw here's at least one article that states they'll have a 57":

http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/01/07/samsung.lcd.with.led.light/
Thank you for the link and the update. Looks like I'll be making an equal size comparison after all. Yippeee!!!!! :D

What are the differences between the 71 series vs. 81 series vs. 65 series? I'm seriously considering the 5265F ... but am willing to wait for these if they offer enough "new" features.

71- series will have 120Hz conversion ;it means it produces sharp image of "fast content" like sports and games. Other features will match 65-series.

81-series will have led backlight with localized dimming for better CR.

I have only seen EU-version of 65-series(m86) that got 5 stars from wha t-hifi-magazine . Only bad thing was motion blur.(the main reason why i buy 120/100 Hz lcd for gaming, eu models will likely support 24,25,50,30 and 60 Hz content)

eu models will likely support 24,25,50,30 and 60 Hz content)

Has this been confirmed by Samsung at all? I know a lot of people assumed the 120hz Sharps would support native 1080p24, but that didn't end up being the case.

Has this been confirmed by Samsung at all? I know a lot of people assumed the 120hz Sharps would support native 1080p24, but that didn't end up being the case.

No. At least toshiba z-series(LX177 in US) will take 24fps like current eu x-series does (http://www.toshiba.de/consumer/content/defaultid1_1_id2_0_id3_165_id4_5.aspx) . So i assume/hope that future 120/100Hz samsung supports 24fps as well. Even current eu m86 samsung takes 1080p24.

I have only seen EU-version of 65-series(m86) that got 5 stars from wha t-hifi-magazine . Only bad thing was motion blur.(the main reason why i buy 120/100 Hz lcd for gaming, eu models will likely support 24,25,50,30 and 60 Hz content)

There is very detailed review of M86 in

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Samsung-LE40M86BD/

It seems that this series is solving one set of problems while creating new problems.
For example: Improved black level vs. black levels crush. Slight motion blurr and problems with color rendering are also noticeable.

There is also fresh comparison of Sammsung vs. Sony

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/2007/04/19/le40m86bd-vs-kdl40w2000/

which seems to confirm this trend:

Samsung better blacks vs. Sony better shadow detail.

One can now sit and wait for the Samsung 81 series solving problems by dimming and creating new problems due to dimming :D

Thanks for info irkuck. I have seen w2000 and i didn´t like its terrible judder in panning scenes with panasonic bluray player. So it seems i have to wait for toshiba or samsung 100/120 Hz models to come. Im quite sure both(m86 and w2000) would satsify me in terms of picture quality and contrast. But I realy hope to see same kind of 100/120 Hz performance with 1080p that panasonic TX32LXD70 (http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Panasonic-TX32LXD70/Picture-Quality.php) does in 720p.

I cannot wait for the Samsung 81 series. It should be the holy grail of flat panel tvs! :D

71- series will have 120Hz conversion ;it means it produces sharp image of "fast content" like sports and games. Other features will match 65-series.

81-series will have led backlight with localized dimming for better CR.

I have only seen EU-version of 65-series(m86) that got 5 stars from wha t-hifi-magazine . Only bad thing was motion blur.(the main reason why i buy 120/100 Hz lcd for gaming, eu models will likely support 24,25,50,30 and 60 Hz content)

It looks like for this year (2007) Samsung will keep the two (or three) technologies seperate: LED backlight, 1080p24 and 100/120hz refresh rate.

The European-market M86 model seems to be an exemption but even that set is not yet FULL HD (not 1080p yet; only a WXGA set).

It looks like if you want all of the 1080p24, LED-backlight and 100/120hz refresh rate features on a Samsung LCD TV set, you'd have to wait till at least next year.

The REAL Samsung 1080p flagship LCD TV won't arrive within this year. :(

It looks like for this year (2007) Samsung will keep the two (or three) technologies seperate: LED backlight, 1080p24 and 100/120hz refresh rate.
I've seen nothing since CES in January that would support this.

It looks like if you want all of the 1080p24, LED-backlight and 100/120hz refresh rate features on a Samsung LCD TV set, you'd have to wait till at least next year.
No, it's this year. In fact, you'll only have to wait 3-4 months.

No, it's this year. In fact, you'll only have to wait 3-4 months.

Is this insider information, or is there something we could look at? I certainly hope this is the case, needless to say.

Is this insider information, or is there something we could look at? I certainly hope this is the case, needless to say.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=788306&page=1&pp=30
...and check the links in the first post which say July 07, 1080p and 120Hz. This info is still the only thing that Samsung said about 81 series back in January and has not revealed any new information since then. All the other things you may have heard about 81s are just rumors.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9975538&&#post9975538

LED and 100hz/120hz refresh rates and 1080p24 support will be separate this year.

71 series for speed and 81 series for movies.

So at the moment, there won't be any flagship 1080p TV from Samsung that would combine all of the above technologies for this year.

So unless Samsung issues a new press release, the said technologies will be split.

Hopefully by next year, there would already be a Samsung LCD TV that combines all of the said technologies plus more. :)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9975538&&#post9975538

LED and 100hz/120hz refresh rates and 1080p24 support will be separate this year.

71 series for speed and 81 series for movies.

So at the moment, there won't be any flagship 1080p TV from Samsung that would combine all of the above technologies for this year.

So unless Samsung issues a new press release, the said technologies will be split.

Hopefully by next year, there would already be a Samsung LCD TV that combines all of the said technologies plus more. :)

Wrong. LED and 120hz refresh rates will most certainly be this year (3-4 months from now). Look at this (http://samsung.feedroom.com/) page. This is the press conference from Samsung at CES 2007. They mention LED BL and 120hz. However, no mention of 24fps. Hopefully the 81s will support that as well. This is the tv I want to get... :cool:

Wrong. LED and 120hz refresh rates will most certainly be this year (3-4 months from now). Look at this (http://samsung.feedroom.com/) page. This is the press conference from Samsung at CES 2007. They mention LED BL and 120hz. However, no mention of 24fps. Hopefully the 81s will support that as well. This is the tv I want to get... :cool:

Well you're kinda right there.

What I really meant was that the said technologies will be split into two different flagships:

71 series (catering to sports, games and anything with fast motion)
120hz refresh rate (but still CCFL backlight)

81 series (catering to moviebuffs and TV show fanatics)
LED backlight with local dimming and 1080p 24fps support (but no 120hz)

So yeah, all the technologies will be available this year (for Korea, US and maybe Europe)...........just not in one model.

Perhaps it will be next year when they will combine all three into one elite 1080p flagship model....hopefully.

That's what I meant (sorry though if what I said earlier wasn't clear enough)

81 series (catering to moviebuffs and TV show fanatics)
LED backlight with local dimming and 1080p 24fps support (but no 120hz)
Where did you get this information from?

At Samsung press conference in January they said 81 series would have 120Hz refresh rate.

If you refuse to believe that, consider this. 81 series is the most advanced line of Samsung LCDs that the company will introduce this year. It would be silly and, frankly, shocking if they left out 120Hz spec from 81s and included it in less advanced lines.

It would be silly and, frankly, shocking if they left out 120Hz spec from 81s and included it in less advanced lines.

It would be shocking if 120Hz mode on 81-series works as bad as one in sharp´s d92u. Panasonic did it right with their 32" non fullhd.

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6405104.html

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9975538&&#post9975538

Like vtms said, it would be stupid of Samsung not to include 120hz on the 81 series on top of LED backlighting. The 81 series is the top of the line and should include every new technology. From what I'm reading on Twice, no 120hz is mentioned on the 81 series. This most certainly could be a mistake, or Samsung might tell us if 120hz is included when the tvs are close to coming out. We need an updated official statement from Samsung on exactly what the 81 series has because I would be pissed of if the 81s don't have 120hz refresh rates.

Agreed, but it has been my experience that people/companies do stupid things all the time.

Agreed, but it has been my experience that people/companies do stupid things all the time.

But....actually come to think of it an AVS member reminded me that local dimming should get rid of motion blur or at least mostly get rid of it. Therefore 120hz processing might not be needed for the 81 series. So no worries :)

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6436530.html
Jonas Tanenbaum, Samsung’s flat-panel display marketing VP, said the two additional 1080p LCD TVs series coming later this year will each include the 40-inch, 46-inch, 52-inch and 57-inch screen sizes.

One series will feature Samsung’s 120Hz technology and the second will feature LED backlighting, both of which will substantially eliminate motion blurring artifacts. The LED line will offer limited distribution, he said.

But....actually come to think of it an AVS member reminded me that local dimming should get rid of motion blur or at least mostly get rid of it. Therefore 120hz processing might not be needed for the 81 series. So no worries :)
That's a very good point.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6888529.html
The LED backlight also overcomes the disadvantages of the prior art CCFL backlights with respect to display of video data by an LCD display panel. As noted, the light output of the LED backlight has a response time on the order of microseconds using appropriate drive circuitry. Thus, the LED backlight may be readily switched on and off over a fraction of a video frame period, which is on the order of 8.3 ms (120 Hz frame rate), thus reducing or eliminating the artifacts created by the relatively slow response time of current LCD displays.

I question the reliabilty of the 81 series. If for no other reason than the flickering of LED street lights and led vehicle lights - and every led night light I've owned that's supposed to last tens of thousands of hours, fails within 6 months.

I personally believe it's the connections to the lights themselves that fail and there's no reason to believe that a tv will be any better as far as reliabilty. I'm not willing to pay the premium for something so new and unproven, and will likely settle on the 65 or 71 series.

I might be keeping tabs on the tech for my next tv however...

Can someone please confirm whether the 71 Series supports 1080p24 native signals?

Thanks.

a price would be nice

But....actually come to think of it an AVS member reminded me that local dimming should get rid of motion blur or at least mostly get rid of it. Therefore 120hz processing might not be needed for the 81 series. So no worries :)

Backlight dimming should have no effect on motion blur. It’s not blurring because a backlight is always on or can’t turn on or off real fast, it’s blurring because the LCD elements cannot change position fast enough. In addition you can also see color shift because the LCD elements can move to full on or off faster than they can to part way on or the other way round.

Is this the end of this thread?

Is this the end of this thread?

Is the TV out, finally? :lol:

Backlight dimming should have no effect on motion blur. It’s not blurring because a backlight is always on or can’t turn on or off real fast, it’s blurring because the LCD elements cannot change position fast enough. In addition you can also see color shift because the LCD elements can move to full on or off faster than they can to part way on or the other way round.

I have seen that backlight control can eliminate motion blur very efficiently. Philips "scanning backlight ;clear lcd" Tv had no motion blur. Phililps pulled out scanning backlight lcd for this year because they were too pricy to compete with 120Hz technology.(yes im repeating my self but this allways comes up in some thread )

I never heard about that. I wish could have seen one in action. The LCD elements response time would have had to be really good. I wonder how many backlights it used and of what type? It would seem they could use it on LED backlit LCDs.

The 81 Series has an optional scanning backlight mode called "LED Motion Plus". I personally cannot say that I notice any difference in motion clarity.