nvidia 8600 / 8500 series info

[scottnews]

So its officially released today. Here are some links:

An index of reviews. A few cover power consumption, being about equal to the 7600 series. Pretty much nothing covering BluRay and HD DVD playback.
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=6949

The only thing I can find covering HD playback is here:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/G84_G86/images/HDCPUload.jpg
Its being advertised as 100% offloading HD decoding from the CPU. Whereas the 7xxx series only offloaded about half the process.

I'd like to see what a passively cooled low end 8xxx series can do with HD.

[barth2k]

shoot, and I just bought a 7600gt couple of months ago :(

[Nimo]

I don't see the benefit of this card over my Diamond 7600GT, 128bit interface clock speeds look the same cpu usage on that chart shows maybe a 10% decrease compared to my 7600GT. Which is around 30/37 when playing back certain HD DVD's. And if they don't have HDMI implemented in this card I'll definetly pass, but I'm sure MSi will fix that.

[walford]

Here are some interesting links about the new cards:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070417/sftu028.html?.v=91

http://www.nvidia.com/page/purevideo_hd.html

I also found the 8500GT cards which should do fine for all TV and DVD users available at NewEgg for about $100.

I have not found any 8500 or 8600 cards yet with HDMI output.

[gorman42]

I think that this product launch clearly shows how the IT sector tries to force feed upgrades to customers.

Vista is a small portion of the market today, yet the newest capabilities of these cards are exploited first on Vista. For XP support we're going to have to wait.

I hope the wait will be as short as they're promising, but I still don't like it.

At all.

[scottnews]

I think the bitstream processor they added to the core is interesting. This could be an intelligent solution rather than brute force clockrate. I looks like a mid-range system could playback h.264 content with a low to midrange video card.

The GeForce 7 series did handle part of these computations, leaving the rest to the CPU. On the GeForce 8800 more operations could be offloaded to the GPU, but the G84 and G86 chips have even more features. This means that for HD video decoding the new cards are actually better than the 8800 Series
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/G84_G86/4

I would just like to see some independent benchmarks in regard to that.

[redtyler1]

I've read in a couple places that the manufacturers can alter one of the two DVI outputs to HDMI. So, maybe in a few months we'll see some 8600GT cards with HDMI in them. If thats the case, then HTPC'ers will have a choice when buying 1) a motherboard with HDMI and 2) a video card with HDMI. Until this happens, consumers have less of a choice. Ideally, Asus or someone will come out with low profile 8500or 8600 series cards with HDMI that will be robust enough, and effective enough, at offloading from the CPU so that people can start marketing HTPC alternatives to Mac-mini that will effectively play hi-def discs. At least thats what I am waiting on-8600GT w/hdmi.

Alex

[sgibson]

So its officially released today. Here are some links:

An index of reviews. A few cover power consumption, being about equal to the 7600 series. Pretty much nothing covering BluRay and HD DVD playback.
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=6949

The only thing I can find covering HD playback is here:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/G84_G86/images/HDCPUload.jpg
Its being advertised as 100% offloading HD decoding from the CPU. Whereas the 7xxx series only offloaded about half the process.

I'd like to see what a passively cooled low end 8xxx series can do with HD.

Got one on the way, ordered here:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=326068
Details here:
http://www2.bfgtech.com/bfgr86256gtsoce.aspx
(Yes it's HDCP and supports HD-DVD and BR ready)
Official Nvidia 8500/8600 drivers here:
http://www.nvidia.com/content/drivers/drivers.asp

[redtyler1]

Just as a follow-up, anandtech has their review up for the 8600gts and 8600gt. As other posters have said, they only discuss the implications of the cards new feature set on offloading CPU utilization during HD playback--they do not test the cards for this. However, the article says they are currently testing it and will report their results soon. Basically, if you do any gaming, these cards are not for you--just buy an 8800gts which can be had for like 280 now. But, for us, the real benefit is the better HD playback. But, ya'll already know this.

Here's the article:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2970&p=1

Alex

[redtyler1]

Maybe folks can post some impressions/results when their cards come in? If the cards work as they say they do, budget HD-DVD and BD (smooth and effective) playback may not be a figment. Thoughts?

[Nimo]

From: reghardware

Although this arrangement keeps the 8600GT chip cool, it is rather noisy and is more reminiscent of a rackety Radeon X850 than a sophisticated GeForce 7800GTX.

Verdict

For the time being we have little choice but to ignore DirectX 10 and that means there is currently no compelling reason to upgrade from a GeForce 6600 or 7600 to an 8600. If we found ourselves forced to buy a graphics card in the next few weeks it would be a bit daft to miss out on the opportunity of playing Halo 2, so what would we do? Hmm, it's a tricky one, but there would be a strong temptation to plump for a GeForce 8800GT with 320MB of memory at £215.
MSI NX8600GTS graphics card

From Anand:

While it would be nice to have this hardware in NVIDIA's higher end offerings, this technology arguably makes more sense in mainstream parts. High end, expensive graphics cards are usually paired with high end expensive CPUs and lots of RAM. The decode assistance that these higher end cards offer is more than enough to enable a high end CPU to handle the hardest hitting
HD videos. With mainstream graphics hardware providing a huge amount of decode assistance, the lower end CPUs that people pair with this hardware will benefit greatly.


Here we go again it takes two pci slots :rolleyes: Save your money guys unless your already in the build process or your cpu isn't quite up to par....Unless it does H.264 like butter it might be worth it due to the VP2 decoder, but we've all heard this before until someone does realtime benchmarks. Passive cooled single pci slot 512 mgs of ram and HDMI I will buy it if VP2 does what they claim...
Okay: 256mbs ram single pci and HDMI is more realistic.

[arfster]

Rumour has it the 8600GT eats VC1 and h264 like the 6xxx/7xxx series eat MPEG2. If you look at 7xxx series with similarly fast clocks, you're looking at 40-50% drop in CPU (my 600mhz 7300GT chops 45% off both). With the 8500/8600 being built from the ground up with BD/HDDVD in mind where the 7xxx series were not, I'd expect the 8600GTs to cut 60% or more - after all, it does have a 675mhz clock on the reference models, and more with some manufacturers' models.

[cubdukat]

I think the bitstream processor they added to the core is interesting. This could be an intelligent solution rather than brute force clockrate. I looks like a mid-range system could playback h.264 content with a low to midrange video card.

The GeForce 7 series did handle part of these computations, leaving the rest to the CPU. On the GeForce 8800 more operations could be offloaded to the GPU, but the G84 and G86 chips have even more features. This means that for HD video decoding the new cards are actually better than the 8800 Series
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/G84_G86/4

I would just like to see some independent benchmarks in regard to that.

So would I. To hear NVidia tell it, it takes over MPEG-2/4/AVC decoding entirely. At least that's how I interpreted it. I certainly hope that's the case. Even though I have a moderately powerful CPU (A64 3200+, soon to be an X2 4600+), I want it doing as little as possible.

The only two things that really get me are that I can't find anyone's who's got one in stock, and which manufacturers are putting out HDCP-enabled cards.

[sgibson]

So would I. To hear NVidia tell it, it takes over MPEG-2/4/AVC decoding entirely. At least that's how I interpreted it. I certainly hope that's the case. Even though I have a moderately powerful CPU (A64 3200+, soon to be an X2 4600+), I want it doing as little as possible.

The only two things that really get me are that I can't find anyone's who's got one in stock, and which manufacturers are putting out HDCP-enabled cards.

Initial reviews are that at gaming 8600 is just ok, but it really shines when HD content is displayed. The 8600's new HD display engine is unique and outperforms the current 8800 series in this respect.
Just ordered BFG 8600GTS OC here:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=326068


BFG says it's HDCP and this review reports it does HDCP thru both DVI outputs:
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=392&type=expert&pid=3

[mrloopy]

Yes, if you've ordered a card please let us know how noisy they are...

[rpf717]

Sounds like these might be a great choice for HD playback for people who don't play games as much as movies.

A couple of thoughts: As far as noise, don't forget, Gigabyte already has a passively cooled 8600gts out now. Personally, I was blown away that they did this as their initial release - kudos to them!

As far as HDMI output? What does that give us? I gotta think most people aren't running sound through a sound system and not through speakers on the monitor, right? What's the advantage? Just wanna make sure I'm not missing something before I pull the trigger on one of these.

[FACP]

I was set to purchase the XFX 7950GT for my HTPC but thanks to some recommendations from forum members, I waited for the release of these new cards and it seems these would be best for an HD, BD, HDDVD playback only, non-gaming HTPC. Just wish it was passively cooled. Yes, I would also like to know how noisy are the fans.

[rpf717]

Just wish it was passively cooled. Yes, I would also like to know how noisy are the fans.

You CAN get it passively cooled: Gigabyte 8600gts. Check out the picture

[millerbrad]

I think the bitstream processor they added to the core is interesting. This could be an intelligent solution rather than brute force clockrate. I looks like a mid-range system could playback h.264 content with a low to midrange video card.

The GeForce 7 series did handle part of these computations, leaving the rest to the CPU. On the GeForce 8800 more operations could be offloaded to the GPU, but the G84 and G86 chips have even more features. This means that for HD video decoding the new cards are actually better than the 8800 Series
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/G84_G86/4

I would just like to see some independent benchmarks in regard to that.

Here are some benchmarks with the 8600GTS.

http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/msibfg8600/media%20playback.php

I'm curious how the 8600GT compares...

[arfster]

Here are some benchmarks with the 8600GTS.

http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/msibfg8600/media%20playback.php

I'm curious how the 8600GT compares...


It should be about the same as the 7600GT for games, and almost as fast for HD acceleration (it's internally identical, just slightly slower clocks). The GTS looks to be very much overkill for the latter if that review you quote is right - <10% suggests the processor is doing pretty much none of the decoding work, just as with dxva'ed MPEG2 HD.

More interesting might be the 8500 models, as even fanless the 8600 cards are still dumping an enormous amount of heat into your case (as well as stressing the psu, creating more heat). Even if they perform nowhere near as well, it should still be enough for any processor of the last 2 years.

[Mark_A_W]

Do they still tear for VMR9? (Every Nvidia card I've tried so far tears - from a 5950 to a 7800GT).

Does Powerstrip work stablely/reliable with them? (Doesn't work quite right with a 6800gt, the timings aren't completely stable and repeatable - they are a tiny bit different each time).

Does Reclock work with them? (Reclock doesn't work properly with an ATi x1950 - it doesn't detect the refresh rate properly, particularly for interlaced res's).

Yep...I'm having trouble finding a new HTPC card...

[arfster]

Do they still tear for VMR9? (Every Nvidia card I've tried so far tears - from a 5950 to a 7800GT).


Probably - the only fix for this will come when EVR becomes more commonly used. Until then, renderless exclusive is the only solution.

[Mark_A_W]

What's EVR?

[arfster]

What's EVR?

Enhanced Video Renderer - Vista's replacement for VMR9 (although I think it's possible to add it to XP also). Doesn't work perfectly yet because media-player writers haven't fully got to grips with it, but there's definite promise. With 100.65 it doesn't tear for me at all, although later drivers do :rolleyes:

[Tulli]

8800gts does no tear for me, Vista or XP. In XP I can watch ZP and Theatertek without problems on secondary monitor at 1920x1080p at 60 or 24hz, windowless or windowed (C2D e6600). In fact this has been a major surprise with this card.

[Smidget]

8600GTs are up on newegg.com

[vairulez]

TT 2.5 will be using EVR

[barth2k]

Vista is a small portion of the market today, yet the newest capabilities of these cards are exploited first on Vista. For XP support we're going to have to wait.



really? I thought dx10 will not be supported in XP **at all**. I guess now I really have no reason to upgrade.

[vairulez]

I think gorman42 was talking about PV2, directx10 won't be supported in XP

[CoolHost]

I am building a new HTPC. I was set to get the 8800GTS until I came across the new 8600GTS model. The card will be use for 100% movie and HD content viewing, no gaming. From what I have read the new 8600 cards should perform better for viewing HT content at 1080p. Is this correct? Assuming this is correct, is there any reason to get the 8800 over the 8600 for viewing HD content?

Thanks
Jon

[sharangad]

The PureVideo 2 features (100% of the H.264 decoding) are only available in Vista until July when they'll be made available to Windows XP SP2.

"An improved video processor is also included which features more advanced video post processing algorithm’s. We will look at the result of these features later in the review however it’s safe to say the results of this are nothing short of staggering. There is only one caveat to PureVideo HD at the moment and that is the feature only being available to Vista users until at least July this year."

(Source:http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/msibfg8600/8600gts.php ('tis on Page 2, the actual page rendered is cookie based)

The details of the entire video decode pipeline:

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/486/2/

http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/486/purevideo2.jpg

http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/486/purevideo_4.jpg

[arfster]

Wow, now that is impressive. From the top slide, a 3ghz single core Pentium with a 8500GT is playing Casino Royale at 35%ish CPU, and that's one of the toughest AVC discs around. In software, that movie comes close to maxxing both cores of a e6300. Looks like this will be the new card of choice for HTPCs.

The 2nd slide's stats are more than a bit dodgy though. They're showing an e6400 (2.13ghz) at 60-75% with a 7600GT. Using a 7300GT (o/c'ed to equivalent of 7600GS), and downclocking to that speed, I get 35%.

[Mark_A_W]

Enhanced Video Renderer - Vista's replacement for VMR9 (although I think it's possible to add it to XP also). Doesn't work perfectly yet because media-player writers haven't fully got to grips with it, but there's definite promise. With 100.65 it doesn't tear for me at all, although later drivers do :rolleyes:


Hmmm...so Microsoft is now fixing Nvidia's problems? Well, I'm glad it's fixed but I'm not buying Vista yet (or ever if I can avoid it from what I've seen of it so far).

[Mark_A_W]

8800gts does no tear for me, Vista or XP. In XP I can watch ZP and Theatertek without problems on secondary monitor at 1920x1080p at 60 or 24hz, windowless or windowed (C2D e6600). In fact this has been a major surprise with this card.

With standard VMR9 and high bitrate HD material?

[jp2]

I still have some concern about any improvement in IQ (image quality) with these new cards. I have spoke with a few companies regarding these cards and did not get a consensus about whether or not these cards would help my situation. I currently have an nvidia 7900gs running into a sony qualia 006 (70" rp sxrd). The sony accepts 1080i @60Hz but has optical overscanning which has the net effect of cutting off part of the windows desktop. With older drivers and the 7900 card I can underscan a bit and fit the entire desktop on my tv. I had the high end 8800gtx card but the net result was an image that wasn't as good and did not have the ability to effectively control the resolution to underscan. This really comes down to the drivers of the video cards. I have not heard that the drivers for the new 8600gts cards are any better. I use powerdvd ultra to play hd-dvd and bluray and am looking for the best video quality. I do not know if these new cards will help. How are these charts and stats being tested? What software are they using. Nvidia talks so much about these cards ability to offload HD image processing but what does their setup look like? Are they going into a normal TV or just a PC monitor? What playback software are they using? XP or Vista? Which drivers actually work? I will try and answer a bunch of these questions but I need to make sure I can return the card (without any restocking fee!) if they fail to work in my environment like the 8800gtx did! Thanks for any help with these questions.
jp

[Nimo]

Hmmm...so Microsoft is now fixing Nvidia's problems? Well, I'm glad it's fixed but I'm not buying Vista yet (or ever if I can avoid it from what I've seen of it so far).

Cracks me up Mark, I couldn't have said better! Along with the "touted" purevideo there is no reason to go to a DRM OS. As long as it's connected to a PC it will ALWAYS be HaCkEd....

[sotti]

I am building a new HTPC. I was set to get the 8800GTS until I came across the new 8600GTS model. The card will be use for 100% movie and HD content viewing, no gaming. From what I have read the new 8600 cards should perform better for viewing HT content at 1080p. Is this correct? Assuming this is correct, is there any reason to get the 8800 over the 8600 for viewing HD content?

Thanks
Jon

Absolutely correct.

The 8800 is gamer orientated.

The 8600GTS is a little slower than a 7950GT but much faster in games than a 7600GT. But it is a video powerhouse (At least as billed, waiting for benches before making a final decision) and should provide the most hardware assist for H.264 and VC-1 of any video card.

The VP2 engine needs new software to work, none of the released software supports it.


BTW DX10 will never come to XP, ever.

[Tulli]

With standard VMR9 and high bitrate HD material?

Yep.

[Powerage]

Anyone think the 8600 GTS with an AMD Athlon 64 3400+ (Single Core) processor & 1GB PC3200 would have enough headroom for at least some-not all HD-DVD BluRay?

[arfster]

Anyone think the 8600 GTS with an AMD Athlon 64 3400+ (Single Core) processor & 1GB PC3200 would have enough headroom for at least some-not all HD-DVD BluRay?

Should be fine easily. Check the top one of the two charts - that's Bluray AVC, on a P4 3ghz with only a 8500GT, and averaging 30-40%.

[Powerage]

Should be fine easily. Check the top one of the two charts - that's Bluray AVC, on a P4 3ghz with only a 8500GT, and averaging 30-40%.

Thanks for the feedback arfster!

I think the 8600 may be the perfect spark to transform an old Compaq SR1726NX PC into an HD-DVD/Bluray HDTV box for my Samsung 6767!

[lousygolfer]

I am building a new HTPC. I was set to get the 8800GTS until I came across the new 8600GTS model. The card will be use for 100% movie and HD content viewing, no gaming. From what I have read the new 8600 cards should perform better for viewing HT content at 1080p. Is this correct? Assuming this is correct, is there any reason to get the 8800 over the 8600 for viewing HD content?

Thanks
Jon

Did you read any of the other posts in this thread??

[FACP]

Looking at the charts above, looks like the 8600GTS will be the card of choice for me. I see variants of the card with passive cooling are coming out. Just have to wait a little bit longer for benchmarks til I make a decision. Thank God I waited before splurging out for the XFX 7950GT. The 8500/8600 looks very promising for HTPC with only video playback and no gaming in mind.

BTW, does anybody know if the prices on the Intel E6600/E6700 processors will indeed drop after the 22nd of this month?

[ballenjr]

I'm a little confused about PureVideo HD.

Is this brand new software only available with the 8600/8500 series? I can't find anyplace to purchase or download the software. NVIDIA.com seems to have info on PureVideo HD but nowhere to purchase it.

I have an 8800GTS and would be interested in having PureVideo HD for vista.

Thanks in Advance

[jimwhite]

once again.... have you read this thread?

:confused:

[arfster]

Is this brand new software only available with the 8600/8500 series?

It's not separate software, it's hardware acceleration. However, you do need media playback software capable of accessing it - at present that means Nero, PowerDVD and WinDVD.

[ballenjr]

It's not separate software, it's hardware acceleration. However, you do need media playback software capable of accessing it - at present that means Nero, PowerDVD and WinDVD.

Thanks for the info.

So does that mean that the 8600/8500 have actually better hardware acceleration than an 8800; or are they both the same?

[Powerage]

Thanks for the info.

So does that mean that the 8600/8500 have actually better hardware acceleration than an 8800; or are they both the same?


As far as I know no one here has had any hands on experience with the 85/86 cards as they have just released to retailers. But if you check the links for the early reviews posted here it appears the new GPU's are far superior for processing HD Video.

[Diggety]

I should have my 8600 by Monday. I'll be sure to check back after I've reviewed and benchmarked it.

[Powerage]

I should have my 8600 by Monday. I'll be sure to check back after I've reviewed and benchmarked it.


Thanks very much looking forward to reading this!

I'm looking for a 86 GTS locally [Jacksonville FL] circuit city shows them on line waiting for the store to open now but not very hopeful they will have them in stock yet.

Just curious what are the specs for your intended system with this card & what Model / Brand did you go with?

[Powerage]

As far as I know no one here has had any hands on experience with the 85/86 cards as they have just released to retailers. But if you check the links for the early reviews posted here it appears the new GPU's are far superior for processing HD Video.


Just glanced at the specs for the 8800 GTS & I suspect that the lower Core Clock 500-575 would also hurt the HD-DVD / BluRay performance.

[Powerage]

As for gaming wonder if 2 8600 GTS in SLI config would be better than 1 8800 GTS.

Anyone have an openion on this?

[arfster]

Just glanced at the specs for the 8800 GTS & I suspect that the lower Core Clock 500-575 would also hurt the HD-DVD / BluRay performance.

Yeah, but even the 8500GT at 450mhz is outperforming the 8800 in HD acceleration, if that top chart is correct. At a guess, the latter would be close to maxxing out with a single core 3ghz P4, whereas the 8500GT is at 30 to 40%.

Frankly, I'm kinda dubious. Looking at the figures, it would seem the 8500 and both the 8600 models all have more or less the same HD performance, but if that's the case why would you buy the 8600s with all the extra heat they dump in your case? Gamers would go for cheaper 8800s, as there's very little difference in price between that and the 8600GTS.

Something doesn't quite add up yet - it'll be interesting to see what the first users find. Might be the 8500 series doesn't have the power to do spatial-temporal deinterlacing on video material, which will obviously matter more as h264 broadcast becomes more used (it's standard in Europe, but still limited in takeup). Nvidia traditionally doesn't bother much about HD broadcast outside the US though, so it's a little hard to see that deciding their pricing strategy.

[gorman42]

I think gorman42 was talking about PV2, directx10 won't be supported in XPYes, I was talking about PV2. And while the reasons behing DX10 being Vista exclusive are a farce by themselves, at least that is Microsoft that tries to do its own business. Maybe not in the most transparent way towards its customers but... that's life.

I really can't stomach, though, a third party like nVidia bowing to the same logic. They come out with a new graphic card and they give precedence to the OS with the least potential customers. One has to wonder why... :mad:

[vairulez]

Frankly, I'm kinda dubious. Looking at the figures, it would seem the 8500 and both the 8600 models all have more or less the same HD performance, but if that's the case why would you buy the 8600s with all the extra heat they dump in your case? Gamers would go for cheaper 8800s, as there's very little difference in price between that and the 8600GTS.

Something doesn't quite add up yet - it'll be interesting to see what the first users find. Might be the 8500 series doesn't have the power to do spatial-temporal deinterlacing on video material, which will obviously matter more as h264 broadcast becomes more used (it's standard in Europe, but still limited in takeup). Nvidia traditionally doesn't bother much about HD broadcast outside the US though, so it's a little hard to see that deciding their pricing strategy.

You just forgot one thing : HDCP. If you want hdcp you'll have to go with the 8600 ;)

[walford]

According to the linked FAQs HDCP support on 8500 and base 8600 cards will be at the discreation of the card vendor so we might not see it right away but I expect that it will become available on these cards at some point in the future.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_8600_8500_faq.html

[ballenjr]

You just forgot one thing : HDCP. If you want hdcp you'll have to go with the 8600 ;)

The 8800's are HDCP compliant, just not dual link HDCP compliant. So it only really matters if you're using a high resolution monitor requiring dual link DVI. For the vast majority of people this doesn't apply.

[Powerage]

Do you guys think the standard 8600 GTS Core Clocked 675 vs 710-730 OC versions would make much of a difference for HD-DVD BluRay Playback using a AMD 3400+ Single core CPU?

[Diggety]

Thanks very much looking forward to reading this!

I'm looking for a 86 GTS locally [Jacksonville FL] circuit city shows them on line waiting for the store to open now but not very hopeful they will have them in stock yet.

Just curious what are the specs for your intended system with this card & what Model / Brand did you go with?

I went with the EVGA 8600GTS mainly because it had HDCP and EVGA has fantastic support -- plus the step-up program if I decide to upgrade later.

Here is the link to it at NewEgg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130084)

Here are the spec for the system I'm going to use it in:

Evga 680i AR Mobo
Enermax Liberty 500W PSU
C2D E6400 Oc'd to 3.2 ghz
Zalman 9700
HVR-1600 OTA HD TV Tuner
On-Board Audio
Silverstone LC16

I'm really looking forward to seeing what this card can do. Good luck at CC!

Please let us know if you get your hands on one.

[walford]

Do you guys think the standard 8600 GTS Core Clocked 675 vs 710-730 OC versions would make much of a difference for HD-DVD BluRay Playback using a AMD 3400+ Single core CPU?
No, since the standard card has far more power and memory bandwidth then is required to almost all of the processing ffor HD DVDs of either type leaving the system CPU little work to do enabling it to perform process other appliations or background tasks concurrently.
In fact it appears that a standard 8500GT will handle the HD DVDs themselves.

[silluri]

So I just ordered this (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/VGA/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2516) guy for my video only Vista MCE HTPC targeted towards HD-DVD playback via XBOX 360 HD DVD drive soon.

It's passively cooled, HDCP compliant. The only thing is no HDMI. Does anyone know if using a DVI->HDMI adapter affects image quality at all? Currently I have a 7800GT which l've had no problems with, but its not HDCP compliant.

FYI, they're in stock at ewiz and mwave for ~$100, not too shabby

[Micromain]

There should be no degradation of image quality through a DVI->HDMI adapter since the signal is digital.

[rpf717]

The only thing is no HDMI.

Again, what is gained from an HDMI output vs DVI output on a GPU that only outputs video and not sound? Tempted to buy the above card, but want to make sure there is not some functionality that I'm missing with a card w/o HDMI?

Also this is interesting:

Looks like Gigabyte (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/VGA/Default.aspx) has 3 passively cooled cards:
8600gts - listed as HDCP compliant
8600gt - NOT listed as HDCP compliant
8500gt - IS listed as HDCP compliant

???

[sharangad]

Frankly, I'm kinda dubious. Looking at the figures, it would seem the 8500 and both the 8600 models all have more or less the same HD performance, but if that's the case why would you buy the 8600s with all the extra heat they dump in your case? Gamers would go for cheaper 8800s, as there's very little difference in price between that and the 8600GTS.



No because only the 8600 GTS comes with HDCP (Now works with dual link DVI). The 8600 GT and the 8500 GT don't come HDCP.

[arfster]

No because only the 8600 GTS comes with HDCP (Now works with dual link DVI). The 8600 GT and the 8500 GT don't come HDCP.

It depends which version of the card you get. There are two variants of the 8500GT: the G86-300 has HDCP, the G86-305 doesn't. Ditto with the 8600GT: the G84-300 has it, the G84-305 doesn't.

Certainly it seems most of the early models seem to have skipped it, but there are 8500GT models with HDCP, eg:

http://www.amazon.com/PNY-GeForce-8500GT-VCG85512GXPB-Express/dp/B000P9CWTI


Looks like it has a 40mm fan though, which might be a bit noisy. Personally I'm going to wait for a passive version with HDMI, or possibly the 8600GT depending on what other PV2 features it has over the 8500GT.



Edit: and a fanless one for $110....

http://www.gamegiants.net/product_info.php?products_id=1083

[silluri]

Again, what is gained from an HDMI output vs DVI output on a GPU that only outputs video and not sound? Tempted to buy the above card, but want to make sure there is not some functionality that I'm missing with a card w/o HDMI?


I'm wondering the same thing, that's why I asked the question originally. Logically for video, digital is digital, so nothing should be lost in terms of quality. My sound is routed to a ht receiver via spdif, so the sound portion of hdmi has no significance for me. I guess it might matter to someone who needs video and sound to go to the same destination or possibly transmission of next gen sound formats higher in quality than DD5.1 or DTS which I think HDMI is capable of, I'm not sure.

[bobbyt]

So I just ordered this (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/VGA/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2516) guy for my video only Vista MCE HTPC targeted towards HD-DVD playback via XBOX 360 HD DVD drive soon.

It's passively cooled, HDCP compliant. ...


I'm seriously thinking about getting that card. Is it powerful enough for HD content (HDTV or HDDVD) in Vista when used with an AMD X2 4200+ w/ 2x1GB memory?
Also, the fact that it's passively cooled, will it cause the overall temps increase in my case? or increases that I should be worried about, at least...

I'm in the process of building my first HTPC (and PC for that matter), so alot of this is new to me...

Thanks!

[scottnews]

I'm seriously thinking about getting that card. Is it powerful enough for HD content (HDTV or HDDVD) in Vista when used with an AMD X2 4200+ w/ 2x1GB memory?
Also, the fact that it's passively cooled, will it cause the overall temps increase in my case? or increases that I should be worried about, at least...

I'm in the process of building my first HTPC (and PC for that matter), so alot of this is new to me...

Thanks!

I haven't seen any benchmarks with the 8600 or 8500 cards with AMD processors. However, this Link (http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/486/purevideo2.jpg) provided by sharangad shows 45% CPU usage on a 3GHz P4.

I'd say its a safe bet.

I'm eagerly waiting on AMD benchmarks.

Passively or Actively cooled, it will raise your case temps. Whether that has a bad affect or not depends on how well ventilated you case is.

[sotti]

I'm seriously thinking about getting that card. Is it powerful enough for HD content (HDTV or HDDVD) in Vista when used with an AMD X2 4200+ w/ 2x1GB memory?
Also, the fact that it's passively cooled, will it cause the overall temps increase in my case? or increases that I should be worried about, at least...

I'm in the process of building my first HTPC (and PC for that matter), so alot of this is new to me...

Thanks!

passively cooled doesn't add any heat to your case, the GPU on the card will emit the same amount of energy, but if your case has poor ventialation the GPU will run hotter than an actively cooled card.

[kevekev30]

Ok People got the 8600gts works on h264 as advertised cpu usage went from 100% max to about 23% max on pentium d 940 3.2 ghz intel 945 chipset 2gb ram and vista ultimate 32 bit. this is the first time i ever bought a product that does what it said it does recommend to all and now most of us with midrange systems dont have to buy a new system.

[silluri]

Ok People got the 8600gts works on h264 as advertised cpu usage went from 100% max to about 23% max on pentium d 940 3.2 ghz intel 945 chipset 2gb ram and vista ultimate 32 bit. this is the first time i ever bought a product that does what it said it does recommend to all and now most of us with midrange systems dont have to buy a new system.

Great news! I think these 8500/8600 series cards will be THE cards to get for dedicated htpc's. I'll be testing my 8500GT as soon as I get it. What types of h264 video did you test? I'll be doing something similar since I don't have any hddvd or bluray sources yet.

[bobbyt]

passively cooled doesn't add any heat to your case, the GPU on the card will emit the same amount of energy, but if your case has poor ventialation the GPU will run hotter than an actively cooled card.

I'm using an nMedia HTPC 400BA (http://www.nmediapc.com/htpc400.htm) case, with a ThermalTake Blue Orb II on the CPU. I'm under the impression it's got good ventilation, I guess I'll find out. About to take the leap and get the passively cooled 8500GT. If anyone thinks I'm making a mistake, let me know. Thanks!


silluri brings up a good point...are there different types of HD test material out there to download samples of?

[kevekev30]

Great news! I think these 8500/8600 series cards will be THE cards to get for dedicated htpc's. I'll be testing my 8500GT as soon as I get it. What types of h264 video did you test? I'll be doing something similar since I don't have any hddvd or bluray sources yet.
casino royale and xmen 3 h264 encoded blu-ray disc.

[silluri]

casino royale and xmen 3 h264 encoded blu-ray disc.

I found some h264 1080P trailers for download here (http://davestrailerpage.co.uk/) . My Vista PC (AMD 3600+ Brisbane dual core@2.6Ghz w/geforce 7800GT) hovers around 40-50% usage during playback of the Pirates of the Caribbean 1080p one.

[renethx]

GeForce 8600 GTS

All cards (27 as of today) support HDCP. The overclocked cards available in US are (in the order of core clock):


XFX GeForce 8600 GTS 256MB DDR3 DUAL DVI HDCP XXX (PV-T84G-UDD3/7) (http://www.xfxforce.com/web/product/listConfigurationDetails.jspa;jsessionid=aXFF8ESoeT04f9l1ji? series=GeForce%26trade%3B+8600&productConfigurationId=1062796), Core/Mem: 730/2260, Newegg.com ($229.99) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150226)
XFX GeForce 8600 GTS 256MB DDR3 DUAL DVI HDCP Extreme (PV-T84G-UDE3/7) (http://www.xfxforce.com/web/product/listConfigurationDetails.jspa?series=GeForce%26trade%3B+8600&productConfigurationId=1062801), Core/Mem: 720/2180, Newegg.com ($209.99) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150227)
eVGA GeForce 8600GTS Superclocked 256MB 256-P2-N765-AR (http://www.evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?pn=256-P2-N765-AR&family=23), Core/Mem: 720/2100, Newegg.com ($219.99) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130086)
BFG GeForce 8600 GTS OC 256MB PCIe (BFGE86256GTSOCE) (http://www2.bfgtech.com/bfgr86256gtsoce.aspx), Core/Mem: 710/2000, Newegg.com ($229.99) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143101)
MSI NX8600GTS-T2D256E OC (http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=NX8600GTS-T2D256E_OC&class=vga), Core/Mem: 700/2100, occupies two slots, Newegg.com ($199.99) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127284)
MSI NX8600GTS-T2D256E-HD-OC (http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?func=proddesc&prod_no=1194&maincat_no=130&cat2_no=136), Core/Mem: 700/2100, Newegg.com ($199.99) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127283)

There are a bunch of the standard clock (675/2000) cards available at Newegg.com and ZipZoomfly.com. Everybody's favorites are


eVGA GeForce 8600GTS 256MB 256-P2-N761-AR (http://www.evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?pn=256-P2-N761-AR&family=23), Core/Mem: 675/2000, Newegg.com ($199.99) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130084)
XFX GeForce 8600 GTS 256MB DDR3 DUAL DVI HDCP (PV-T84G-UDF3/7) (http://www.xfxforce.com/web/product/listConfigurationDetails.jspa?series=GeForce%26trade%3B+8600&productConfigurationId=1062808), Core/Mem: 675/2000, Newegg.com ($199.99) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150228)

Only two cards have a passive cooling solution:


GIGABYTE GV-NX86S256H (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/VGA/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2512), Core/Mem: 675/2000, passive cooling, occupies two slots, ZipZoomfly.com ($229.99) (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=322367)
MSI NX8600GTS-T2D256EZ-HD (http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?func=proddesc&prod_no=1197&maincat_no=130&cat2_no=136), Core/Mem: 675/2000, passive cooling with an extremely large heatsink (take a look at this picture (http://www.xsreviews.co.uk/reviews/graphics-cards/msi-8600gt/4/)!), not available yet


GeForce 8600 GT

Among 23 cards, only 4 support HDCP. The HDCP support models available in US are:


BFG GeForce 8600 GT OC 256MB PCIe (BFGE86256GTOCE) (http://www2.bfgtech.com/bfgr86256gtoce.aspx), Core/Mem: 565/1400, available soon
PNY 8600 GT 256MB PCIe VCG8600GXPB (http://www2.pny.com/8600-GT-256MB-PCIe-font-colordc0431Coming-Soonfont-P2323C269.aspx), Core/Mem: 540/1400 (standard), ZipZoomfly.com ($169.99) (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=322852)

(The rest are GALAXY and ZOTAC.) The card


GIGABYTE GV-NX86T256H, Core/Mem: 570/1400, passive cooling (like this one (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/ViewImage.aspx?ProductID=2515))

seems to support HDCP, but it is not even listed at the GIGABYTE website.


GeForce 8500 GT

Unlike 8600 GTS/GT models, all cards (20 as of today) are VGA/DVI/HDTV. Among them only 4 support HDCP. The HDCP support models available in US are:


GIGABYTE GV-NX85T256H (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/VGA/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2516), Core/Mem: 500/800, passive cooling, ZipZoomfly.com ($109.99) (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=322369)
PNY 8500 GT 512MB PCIe VCG85512GXPB (http://www2.pny.com/8500-GT-512MB-PCIe-font-colordc0431Coming-Soonfont-P2322C269.aspx), Core/Mem: 450/800 (standard), ZipZoomfly.com ($99.99) (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=322853)

(The rest are GALAXY and ZOTAC.)

[zais]

Hello all,

It seems that an update is available for powerdvd 7.3 ultra working with the new purevideo on nvidia 8600, I'll test it after work! cool.

You can find the update on cyberlink website
PowerDVDUltra.2605n_DVD070306-02.exe

some complete tests are available on an asiatic website just search with google "windvd 8.0.8 8600"

[voicecoils]

any idea if the MSI 8600GT (http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?func=proddesc&prod_no=1195&maincat_no=130&cat2_no=136) (passively cooled) has HDCP enabled?

It's avail in Oz for for $204AUD which seems pretty good

[Owen]

Everyone seem to be preoccupied with offloading decoding to the video card and little has been said about video quality.

I replaced a 7800 with an 8800 and the difference in picture quality with any video source was nothing short of remarkable. I really don’t understand how anyone who has used a 6xxx or 7xxx card in comparison with an 8800 would not notice the vastly improved color, scaling and deinterlacing of the 8800.
The 7xxx cards may have less buggy and more functional drivers, but video quality of the 8800 is so much better its silly.

For me the big question is video quality, deinterlacing performance with SD and 1080i as well as playback smoothness. CPU utilisation is not a concern as my over clocked E6600 is sitting idle most of the time.

If the 8600 cards turn out to provide better video quality then the 8800 cards, my 8800GTS 640Meg will be on Ebay quick smart, but not before I have tested an 8600 GTS first hand.
So far I have yet to see anything that confirms better video quality from an 8600.
All nVidia have said is that currently only 8500 and 8600 cards running on Vista support full acceleration of BluRay and HDDVD content, but that is not to say that the 8800 will not support these features in future, or that it is inferior for this task.

It’s all very early days yet, so we will have to wait and see.

[renethx]

any idea if the MSI 8600GT (http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?func=proddesc&prod_no=1195&maincat_no=130&cat2_no=136) (passively cooled) has HDCP enabled?
Almost surely not. The model number of a MSI HDCP support card always ends with "-HD" as you can see in this list (http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?func=prodpage2&maincat_no=130&cat2_no=136) (apparently "-HD" = HDCP) and HDCP capability is always mentioned explicitly in the product information page like this way (http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?func=proddesc&prod_no=1197&maincat_no=130&cat2_no=136). The last point applies to every manufacturer as the manufacturer has to purchase external EEPROMs with HDCP keys to implement HDCP in 8600/8500 GT cards, then why not they advertise it?

[DVL73]

Somewhat, I believe that even 8500GT will be sufficient for the HD playback. No to mention advantage that it doesn't have PCIe power connector, it's much less power hungry (ideal for small factor HTPC) and it can be completely (single slot) passively cooled, like Asus 8500 GT. Yes, it's running on smaller number of streams and it's clocked lower ... but somewhat I'm convinced that this shouldn't matter that much if it's used exclusively for video playback. Anyone agree ?

However, here is the food for though :) My AOpen i945GTt MiniITX Core Duo motherboard have only PCIe 1X socket. I can buy the PCI Express X1 to X16 Extender (so that you can use X16 cards in X1 slots) ... but question is if 8XXX (let's say 8500GT) video performance will suffer much because of the 1X ? More importantly, I guesss that there will be no another issues :confused:

[Powerage]

I went with the EVGA 8600GTS mainly because it had HDCP and EVGA has fantastic support -- plus the step-up program if I decide to upgrade later.

Here is the link to it at NewEgg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130084)

Here are the spec for the system I'm going to use it in:

Evga 680i AR Mobo
Enermax Liberty 500W PSU
C2D E6400 Oc'd to 3.2 ghz
Zalman 9700
HVR-1600 OTA HD TV Tuner
On-Board Audio
Silverstone LC16

I'm really looking forward to seeing what this card can do. Good luck at CC!


Please let us know if you get your hands on one.



Just a quick update All circuit city stores in jacksonville FL No Go. Status On Order for whatever thats worth.

[arfster]

Very useful graph comparing 8500/8600 with others:

http://www.hardspell.com/pic/2007/4/17/49cc7ed7-9eca-4234-ad66-c72c16717c30.gif

Next they did it on a $45 Sempron 2800+...

http://www.hardspell.com/pic/2007/4/17/484cf334-0137-402d-a792-b85dd3216cc3.gif


Guess NVidia were telling the truth when they said "complete GPU offload" - how unusual :-)

A little oddity here is that because the 8500/8600 were seemingly only improved for h264 and not VC1, the latter now takes much more CPU. In another chart with the Sempron 2800+, it shows 80% CPU, approx the same as the 7xxx and 8800 cards. OIbviously this is irrelevant for anyway with any sort of dualcore, but for those wanting to cobble together old parts into a VC1 HTPC, it looks like the 2800+ is about your absolute minimum (80% average will peak to 95%ish).

[DVL73]

Yeah, looking really good :cool: and it's probably confirming my theory that number of streams and clock rates are not affecting the HD playback as all processing is done by the hardware decoder itself. I think that I will definitely opt for the 8500GT, cheapest option.

[scottnews]

Very useful graph comparing 8500/8600 with others:

Guess NVidia were telling the truth when they said "complete GPU offload" - how unusual :-)

It looks like there is even less CPU usage when using an AMD processor.

[jalaram]

I wonder if there'll be a low profile version of the card. So far, the most powerful LP card I can find is a 7300GS.

[barth2k]

Yeah, looking really good :cool: and it's probably confirming my theory that number of streams and clock rates are not affecting the HD playback as all processing is done by the hardware decoder itself. I think that I will definitely opt for the 8500GT, cheapest option.

I would too if one had dual dvi and not dvi+vga.

Interrestingly, the spec for the msi 8600GT says

"Decryption supported for all standard HD Video formats-AES-128 CTR mode,AES-128 CBC mode,and AES-128 ECB mode."

so sounds like it even helps with decrypting also? I don't know how much cpu is used for decrypting, but if does that too then there's little for cpu to do except streaming bits and UI.

[DVL73]

I would too if one had dual dvi and not dvi+vga.
You know what ... you are right :) You can have fun with dual DVI, especially if your TV is enabled with multiple HDMI inputs (you can assign specific tasks for each input) or another connection with PC. Anyhow, I just realised that MSI 8600GT is just 20£ more (here in the UK) and it's passively cooled. Just Google the part number "NX8600GT-T2D256EZ". There is another OC version (not passively cooled) "NX8600GT-T2D256E OC". I'm not sure if passive version will fit in my SilverStone LC04 (I have PCIe riser), so I'm thinking to opt for non-passive version for now and later upgrade to aftermarket passive cooler.

Well, 8500GT->8600GT price difference is really not that massive, unless you would need ABSOLUTELY low power consumption.


Interrestingly, the spec for the msi 8600GT says

"Decryption supported for all standard HD Video formats-AES-128 CTR mode,AES-128 CBC mode,and AES-128 ECB mode."
Essentially, that's HDCP "decryption" and only 8600 series are supporting this afaik.

so sounds like it even helps with decrypting also? I don't know how much cpu is used for decrypting, but if does that too then there's little for cpu to do except streaming bits and UI.
Yeah, nothing much I would say. For people who don't require secondary DVI port and lowest possible power consumption is a must, 8500GT is a way to go for the HTPC.

[arfster]

Anyhow, I just realised that MSI 8600GT is just 20£ more (here in the UK) and it's passively cooled. Just Google the part number "NX8600GT-T2D256EZ". There is another OC version (not passively cooled) "NX8600GT-T2D256E OC". I'm not sure if passive version will fit in my SilverStone LC04 (I have PCIe riser), so I'm thinking to opt for non-passive version for now and later upgrade to aftermarket passive cooler.



Hrrrm, thanks for pointing that out. The passive MSI seems nice for UK users:

http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/126985

Free delivery and a tenner price cut via google checkout, so £76 delivered (for US forum-folk, that's $150).

[scottnews]

Very useful graph comparing 8500/8600 with others:

http://www.hardspell.com/pic/2007/4/17/49cc7ed7-9eca-4234-ad66-c72c16717c30.gif


What looks off about this is the software decoding. They are saying 80% CPU usage doing software decoding h.264 to 1080p resolution using a x2 3800+?

Does that sound right?

[arfster]

What looks off about this is the software decoding. They are saying 80% CPU usage doing software decoding h.264 to 1080p resolution using a x2 3800+?

Does that sound right?

Depends what section of Casino Royale they were doing, but it's in the right ball park. On my 2ghz C2D it averages 65% on that disc w/ software decoding.

[Powerage]

Very useful graph comparing 8500/8600 with others:

http://www.hardspell.com/pic/2007/4/17/49cc7ed7-9eca-4234-ad66-c72c16717c30.gif

Next they did it on a $45 Sempron 2800+...

http://www.hardspell.com/pic/2007/4/17/484cf334-0137-402d-a792-b85dd3216cc3.gif


Guess NVidia were telling the truth when they said "complete GPU offload" - how unusual :-)

A little oddity here is that because the 8500/8600 were seemingly only improved for h264 and not VC1, the latter now takes much more CPU. In another chart with the Sempron 2800+, it shows 80% CPU, approx the same as the 7xxx and 8800 cards. OIbviously this is irrelevant for anyway with any sort of dualcore, but for those wanting to cobble together old parts into a VC1 HTPC, it looks like the 2800+ is about your absolute minimum (80% average will peak to 95%ish).

arfster,

Thanks for the informative yet discouraging post.

Are you sure there is no improvement for VC1 HD-DVD with the 85-86's?

If so how did you get this info as this is new to me.

Does this means I cant use my old 3400+ Single Core PC without stutter?


Thanks Again for this interesting info.

[DVL73]

Hrrrm, thanks for pointing that out. The passive MSI seems nice for UK users:

http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/126985

Free delivery and a tenner price cut via google checkout, so £76 delivered (for US forum-folk, that's $150).Yup, that's the one and good find for the price ;) At the end, I bought the passive 8600GT version. :cool: I realised that there is probably enough clearance in my SilverStone LC04 for passive version (as I can adjust the riser slots height and there is still more clearance above the slots).

As it seems, this is perfect option for HTPC. Price is right, it's passive, no external PCIe power required. It's buffed enough so that you can play a game on your HTPC, apart from video streaming and other multimedia goodies.

[lonelytylenol]

gigabyte GV-NX85T256H (http://www.gigabyte-usa.com/Products/VGA/Products_Overview.aspx?ClassValue=VGA&ProductID=2501&ProductName=GV-NX85T256H)

Can someone tell me the downside of this card? Based on reading this thread, it seems to satisfy all of the things everyone says they are looking for. Being new to the htpc game, I'm wondering if I'm missing something and this is too good to be true.

hdcp support
passively cooled
dual dvi
sub $100 on newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125062)
no hdmi, but no one seems to think that is important


For video only (no gaming), I'm not sure I see any advantage to the more expensive models. Thoughts?

[Fatawan]

Ok People got the 8600gts works on h264 as advertised cpu usage went from 100% max to about 23% max on pentium d 940 3.2 ghz intel 945 chipset 2gb ram and vista ultimate 32 bit. this is the first time i ever bought a product that does what it said it does recommend to all and now most of us with midrange systems dont have to buy a new system.

Thanks for the info. How is the noise from the cooling fan on this one? I have read reviews that say they are very quiet once under Windows control.

[monkeyknifefight]

Can someone tell me the downside of this card? Based on reading this thread, it seems to satisfy all of the things everyone says they are looking for. Being new to the htpc game, I'm wondering if I'm missing something and this is too good to be true.

hdcp support
passively cooled
dual dvi
no hdmi, but no one seems to think that is important


For video only (no gaming), I'm not sure I see any advantage to the more expensive models. Thoughts?

I'm wondering the same thing as well. For a "video" only box (no gaming) are there any disadvantages of Core/Memory Clock of 500/800 of the 8500GT versus the 675/2000 of the 8600GTS?

[DVL73]

I'm wondering the same thing as well. For a "video" only box (no gaming) are there any disadvantages of Core/Memory Clock of 500/800 of the 8500GT versus the 675/2000 of the 8600GTS?I doubt. Your CPU is actually more important than clock differences between those two cards. For video only box, I would look no further than 8500GT and that Gigabyte card has all the box ticked. I couldn't find dual DVI and passively cooled 8500GT in the UK (at this stage) - but if there's one, I wouldn't think twice honestly.

Only matter, which is still hazzy for me, is if the HDCP (and decryption logic) is reserved strictly for 8600 or not. According to that Gigabyte model, not. If HDCP is important for you, maybe further clarification is required.

[silluri]

arfster,

Thanks for the informative yet discouraging post.

Are you sure there is no improvement for VC1 HD-DVD with the 85-86's?

If so how did you get this info as this is new to me.

Does this means I cant use my old 3400+ Single Core PC without stutter?


Thanks Again for this interesting info.

According to nvidia's PV site (http://www.nvidia.com/page/purevideo_hd.html) , under VISTA it DOES accelerate h264, VC-1, and mpeg 2, quote:

"Superb picture quality
NVIDIA PureVideo HD technology delivers superb picture quality to HD DVD and Blu-ray movies. It accelerates and enhances high-definition video in H.264, VC-1, and MPEG-2 formats, delivering precise images that have up to six times the detail of standard DVD movies."

[lonelytylenol]

Only matter, which is still hazzy for me, is if the HDCP (and decryption logic) is reserved strictly for 8600 or not. According to that Gigabyte model, not. If HDCP is important for you, maybe further clarification is required.


Per a previous poster - arfster:
"There are two variants of the 8500GT: the G86-300 has HDCP, the G86-305 doesn't. Ditto with the 8600GT: the G84-300 has it, the G84-305 doesn't."

I'm not sure whether arfster is an authority, but he at least sounds like he knows what he's talking about.

[arfster]

Are you sure there is no improvement for VC1 HD-DVD with the 85-86's?


Sorry, wasn't being clear, I meant (almost) no VC1 improvement relative to the 7xxx series and the 8800. The 8500/8600 have improved over those massively for h264, but not for VC1.

Don't get me wrong - these are still huge accelerations over software mode (roughly halfing the CPU requirement for VC1).


Does this means I cant use my old 3400+ Single Core PC without stutter?


It should be just OK I think - they have another graph of a Sempron 2800+ (1.6ghz single core) with 8500/8600 running a VC1 disc at 83/84%. That's a little tight (means peaks just touching 100% at times), but with your faster 3400+ it should have more of an overhead:

http://www.hardspell.com/english/doc/showcont.asp?news_id=385&pageid=489

[Nimo]

so it's highly possible that CPU utilization will be even lower on the next GPU's that are in the works now. Currently, Pure Video HD acceleration for the GeForce 8600 GTS and GT is ONLY available for Windows Vista. Pure Video HD acceleration for Windows XP is expected to be available in June 2007.

So for us XP users this might be an advantage, hopefully by then they will intro the 2nd gen VP2 decoder, I can't wait to see what unravels. :)

[peter caesar]

GeForce 8600 GTS


Among 23 cards, only 5 support HDCP. The HDCP support models available in US are:

...................... deleted .....................

[list] GIGABYTE GV-NX86T256H, Core/Mem: 570/1400, passive cooling (like this one (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/ViewImage.aspx?ProductID=2515))

seems to support HDCP, but it is not even listed at the GIGABYTE website.




The model of the quoted link should be GV-NX86T256D (not ended with an "H"), so I strongly suspect that it's HDCP compliant.

[renethx]

Essentially, that's HDCP "decryption" and only 8600 series are supporting this afaik.
Both 8600 and 8500 have the AES128 Decryption engine:

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/9456/purevideohd003copybc1.jpg

The model of the quoted link should be GV-NX86T256D (not ended with an "H"), so I strongly suspect that it's HDCP compliant.
GV-NX86T256D is already at the GIGABYTE site and it does not support HDCP. GV-NX86T256H is a different model. In GIGABYTE models, the last "H" indicates HDCP. The source of the information is the following Japanese site:

http://www.gdm.or.jp/voices.html

This model could be an ideal card (8600 GT, dual DVI, HDCP, passive cooling).

[Powerage]

Sorry, wasn't being clear, I meant (almost) no VC1 improvement relative to the 7xxx series and the 8800. The 8500/8600 have improved over those massively for h264, but not for VC1.

Don't get me wrong - these are still huge accelerations over software mode (roughly halfing the CPU requirement for VC1).



It should be just OK I think - they have another graph of a Sempron 2800+ (1.6ghz single core) with 8500/8600 running a VC1 disc at 83/84%. That's a little tight (means peaks just touching 100% at times), but with your faster 3400+ it should have more of an overhead:

http://www.hardspell.com/english/doc/showcont.asp?news_id=385&pageid=489



arfster,

Thanks for this Very Helpful Info!

For whatever reason the Sempron 2800+ Chart won't load for me not sure why.

Would it be too much to ask for you to post it here?

[DVL73]

Per a previous poster - arfster:
"There are two variants of the 8500GT: the G86-300 has HDCP, the G86-305 doesn't. Ditto with the 8600GT: the G84-300 has it, the G84-305 doesn't."

I'm not sure whether arfster is an authority, but he at least sounds like he knows what he's talking about.I'm still confused :)

I wonder is it hardware implementation or "software" (bios for example) as both series are supporting AES128 Decryption. For example, just came to my mind, what will happen if you flash the bios from HDCP "enabled" let's say 8600GT to the "non-HDCP "enabled 8600GT :D

[redtyler1]

DId I read something wrong, or are XP 2005 MCE users going to see less benefit (CPU offloading) for an 8600gt than Vista users?

I don't run Vista, and I am ready to snatch up Gigabyte 8600gt.

Thanks ya'll.

Alex

[DVL73]

DId I read something wrong, or are XP 2005 MCE users going to see less benefit (CPU offloading) for an 8600gt than Vista users? Isn't that cheeky from M$ (if true) :rolleyes: Ah well, everything is connected (money-wise) in this industry ...

[arfster]

arfster,

Thanks for this Very Helpful Info!

For whatever reason the Sempron 2800+ Chart won't load for me not sure why.

Would it be too much to ask for you to post it here?

That site is down a lot, but I have a copy in cache:

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/8260/aaaaabe3.th.gif (http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aaaaabe3.gif)

[DVL73]

A bit of WARNING if someone is considering the MSI 8600GT passive version. I've just read the review about this card and boy, that passive heatsink is massive. What's up with MSI :confused: I understand that they want to be creative ... but, come on.

Take a look here (http://www.cpu3d.com/video_cards/msi_nx8600gt_256mb_ddr3_3.html)

I cancelled my order for this card as it will definitely not fit in my HTPC case. Gigabyte is so much better option. Actually, I will probably end up with stock cooling version at the end and see what I can do. So, anyone considering passive MSI, be careful!

[dannieboiz]

If anyone have the 8500gt please post your review. For under $100 it's almost a no brainer.

[Powerage]

That site is down a lot, but I have a copy in cache:

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/8260/aaaaabe3.th.gif (http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aaaaabe3.gif)


Thanks for the post!

Wow I'm more confused than ever before now, from this chart looks like I may be able to just use an 8800 & have much better gaming perfprmance. I thought there was much bigger difference in these regarding CPU Offload.

[arfster]

Thanks for the post!

Wow I'm more confused than ever before now, from this chart looks like I may be able to just use an 8800 & have much better gaming perfprmance. I thought there was much bigger difference in these regarding CPU Offload.

There is, but only for h264 - that's been the trouble spot before now, with people needing 3ghz Core2 Duo for some discs with the early versions of PDVD (now it's down to 2ghz). VC1 is much easier, and plays at 20-30% CPU in a C2D even in software, so NVidia focused on h264.

Note if you go for the 8800, you probably won't be able to play h264 discs - in the first set of charts the X2 2ghz with 8800GTX is at 65% (which means peaks of 80ish), and that's dualcore so you're single won't work. If you're only going for HD-DVD most discs there are VC1, but Bluray has a lot more h264 now.

The 8600GTS isn't too bad at games though, supposedly the equal of the 7900GT in that regard.

[jvarisco]

There is, but only for h264 - that's been the trouble spot before now, with people needing 3ghz Core2 Duo for some discs with the early versions of PDVD (now it's down to 2ghz). VC1 is much easier, and plays at 20-30% CPU in a C2D even in software, so NVidia focused on h264.

Note if you go for the 8800, you probably won't be able to play h264 discs - in the first set of charts the X2 2ghz with 8800GTX is at 65% (which means peaks of 80ish), and that's dualcore so you're single won't work. If you're only going for HD-DVD most discs there are VC1, but Bluray has a lot more h264 now.

The 8600GTS isn't too bad at games though, supposedly the equal of the 7900GT in that regard.

The information provided by Nvidia says it should be doing VC-1 as well, though. Considering how it's eating x264, there's no reason it shouldn't do the same for VC-1 titles. The most likely reason is that there was either a misconfiguration in the test setup or buggy drivers (from Nvidia? NEVER!). :p

[Powerage]

There is, but only for h264 - that's been the trouble spot before now, with people needing 3ghz Core2 Duo for some discs with the early versions of PDVD (now it's down to 2ghz). VC1 is much easier, and plays at 20-30% CPU in a C2D even in software, so NVidia focused on h264.

Note if you go for the 8800, you probably won't be able to play h264 discs - in the first set of charts the X2 2ghz with 8800GTX is at 65% (which means peaks of 80ish), and that's dualcore so you're single won't work. If you're only going for HD-DVD most discs there are VC1, but Bluray has a lot more h264 now.

The 8600GTS isn't too bad at games though, supposedly the equal of the 7900GT in that regard.

Good point h264 is important as well. So i guess momentum $wings back to the 8500 so far in this camp

[barth2k]

gigabyte GV-NX85T256H (http://www.gigabyte-usa.com/Products/VGA/Products_Overview.aspx?ClassValue=VGA&ProductID=2501&ProductName=GV-NX85T256H)

Can someone tell me the downside of this card? Based on reading this thread, it seems to satisfy all of the things everyone says they are looking for. Being new to the htpc game, I'm wondering if I'm missing something and this is too good to be true.

hdcp support
passively cooled
dual dvi
sub $100 on newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125062)
no hdmi, but no one seems to think that is important


For video only (no gaming), I'm not sure I see any advantage to the more expensive models. Thoughts?

If you look at the picture, it does NOT have dual DVI, but a DVI port and D-sub port. This is important only if you want to connect 2 digital displays to it (which I do). It does have one *dual link* DVI, meaning it can do 2048 x 1536 res.

[barth2k]

The information provided by Nvidia says it should be doing VC-1 as well, though. Considering how it's eating x264, there's no reason it shouldn't do the same for VC-1 titles. The most likely reason is that there was either a misconfiguration in the test setup or buggy drivers (from Nvidia? NEVER!). :p

yeah, we need to see more benches using updated software and driver to know.

I'm seriously tempted to sell my 7600GT while I can still get a decent price for it. OTOH, I'm not ready to jump on Vista yet. What's a HD boy to do?

Does anyone know if Gigabyte has a trade up program a la EVGA?

[lonelytylenol]

If you look at the picture, it does NOT have dual DVI, but a DVI port and D-sub port. This is important only if you want to connect 2 digital displays to it (which I do). It does have one *dual link* DVI, meaning it can do 2048 x 1536 res.

Is this accurate?

The gigabyte website's seems to contradict your definition of dual link:

from gigabyte (http://www.gigabyte-usa.com/Products/VGA/Products_Overview.aspx?ClassValue=VGA&ProductID=2501&ProductName=GV-NX85T256H)

"Dual-link DVI - Able to drive two of the industry's largest and highest resolution flat-panel displays up to 2560x1600."

I honestly know little to nothing about dvi.

[Powerage]

Thinking about a new build with these.......

ASRock 4CoreDual-VSTA + GIGABYTE GV-NX85T256H

Anyone know if the Gigabyte's PCIE 16x will work well with the ASRock's 4x PCIE Slot?

My only real concern is that perhaps this could cut HD Video Playback somewhat.

[shepP]

I second Powerage's question about the 4x PCIE Slot. I just built a HTPC and the board has a 4X slot as well. This card also sounds perfect for me if it will work well with 4x.

[barth2k]

I second Powerage's question about the 4x PCIE Slot. I just built a HTPC and the board has a 4X slot as well. This card also sounds perfect for me if it will work well with 4x.

4x = 4 x 256MB/s = 1GB/s. That's gigaBYTES not gigabits.

Max raw data transfer rate for bluray is like 55Mbit/s. so even 1x would do the job, I'd think.

(This assumes of course that you can physically fit the card in the slot. Either the slot is physically the same size as a 16x card but has only 4 lanes electrically wired, or it has an open end so the card just hangs off.)

[Powerage]

I second Powerage's question about the 4x PCIE Slot. I just built a HTPC and the board has a 4X slot as well. This card also sounds perfect for me if it will work well with 4x.


Update:

It appears that the PCIE Slot "was originally designed for 4x, but they have tested and passed a number of 16x cards. They have a list of the cards that have passed for 16x performance on their site.

So maybe this will work with the 85/8600's.

[renethx]

HARDSPELL – DX10 is universalizing: G86/G84 complete test! (April 18, 2007) (http://www.hardspell.com/english/doc/showcont.asp?news_id=385&pageid=439)

I found it's very hard to access this site. So I will post the CPU usage charts in page 16 to 26. (Downloading one picture took more than 500 attempts for an hour using FreeDownloader!)

Test Setup


CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ (dual-core) 2.0GHz
Sempron 2800+ (single-core) 1.6GHz
Motherboard: ASUS M2N32-SLI Premium (Socket AM2)
OS: Windows Vista
VGA card: GeForce 8600GTS 675/2000MHz
GeForce 8600GT 540/1400MHz
GeForce 8500GT 540/1400MHz (overclocked!)
GeForce 8800GTX 575/1800MHz
GeForce 7900GS 450/1400MHz
GeForce 7600GT 560/1400MHz
VGA driver: Forceware 158.1 version Vista-32
Play software
Blu-ray Disc part: WinDVD 8.08
HD DVD part: PowerDVD 7.2
Movies: 007 Casino Royale (Blu-ray Disc, H.264)
X-MEN 3 (Blu-ray Disc, H.264)
Babel (HD DVD, H.264)
Serenity (HD DVD, VC-1)


Testing Method


Each test time is 60 sec.
Tool: Windows' Reliability and Performance Monitor
Measure the average CPU usage during the 60 seconds.


Blu-ray Disc 007-Casino Royale (H.264)

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/376/casinoroyalesr8.png


Blu-ray Disc X-MEN 3 (H.264)

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/2130/xmen3ib1.png


HD DVD Babel (H.264)

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3391/babelki1.png


HD DVD Serenity (VC-1)

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/9247/serenityqd7.png

[rpf717]

Wow!

Look at the 8800 gtx.

Can we assume similar results with XP this test setup in Vista? Or:

"Pure Video HD acceleration for the GeForce 8600 GTS and GT is ONLY available for Windows Vista"

is that the same thing as h264 acceleration?

[renethx]

Almost surely yes once the XP driver is released in June. The video engine of Geforce 8800 series is the same as Geforce 7 Series. In particular 8800 lacks the H.264 bitstream processor and there is no way for it to compete with 8600/8500 in H.264 decode.

The new Video Processor (VP2) integrates the inverse transform process in HD (MPEG-2, VC-1, H.264) decode and the AES-128 decryption engine was added. However from the viewpoint of offload from the CPU, the second generation PureVideo HD engine is almost a synonym for the new H.264 bitstream process engine. That is the reason why there is no big difference in VC-1 decode between 8600/8500 and 8800/7x00.

[BigAl]

Those numbers are really encouraging... but as someone mentioned earlier I am waiting to hear how the video quality holds up. I think anand stated in their initial review of the 8 series cards that they are going to be running their hqv benchmarks later.

Which is good although hqv places too much emphasis on bad edit handling and not enough on black level, contrast ratio, detail and color accuracy.

[jimboeau]

Essentially, that's HDCP "decryption" and only 8600 series are supporting this afaik.

There are several 8500 cards that support HDCP. Here is one:
GIGABYTE GV-NX85T256H GeForce 8500GT (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125062)

I think I'm going to pick this one up!

[heartsurgeon]

well i pulled the trigger and ordered up a gigabyte 8600gts for my new htpc (also got a core 2 duo 6600). should have everything hooked up and running by next weekend.

[heartsurgeon]

OK, since i couldn't wait for the fanless version of the 8600 gts (which by the way appears to be underclocked), i'm now wondering about aftermarket cooling in case the stock cooling system is to loud. I wonder if anyone has gleaned any info about this. would the thermalright 8800 cooler work?

[viction]

Anyone know how well the passive cooling works on the Gigabyte? Does its performance match its fan brother? How about overclocked?

[antonio_car]

XFX GF 8600GT PV-T84J-UDD3 HDCP Capable **
** Requires other compatible components that are also HDCP capable

Driver 158.18 vista 32 bit
http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvista_x86_158.18.html

HDCP not ok :

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/300/advisoroa9.jpg

7950GT is ok in this PC.

Has someone this card or another 8600 with HDCP working ok ?

Antonio

[renethx]

http://www.i4u.com/full-review-205.html

"The XFX 8600 GT XXX won’t really be able to take advantage of the PureVideo HD benefits though since it does not support HDCP."

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/486/3/

"XFX did not enable HDCP and HDMI support, which is optional on the GeForce 8600GT."

http://www.realworldbenchmarks.com/article.php?cat=&id=33&pagenumber=2

"The rear of the XFX 8600 GT XXX Edition shows the key features. Our review sample package does have an error on it that we should address. The 8600 GT has the option to support HDCP playback and the box currently states that the card is “HDCP Capable”. This is actually an error that XFX plans to have fixed for the retail and e-tail launch later today."

If this is true, you'd better return it.

[antonio_car]

If this is true, you'd better return it.

I think so.

Thanks :)

[chuckvb]

I'm also considering the AMD/ATI R600 coming out this month. Apparently it will have the audio on the HDMI output. But I have no idea on the pricing that will be offered.

[Powerage]

Hello all,

It seems that an update is available for powerdvd 7.3 ultra working with the new purevideo on nvidia 8600, I'll test it after work! cool.

You can find the update on cyberlink website
PowerDVDUltra.2605n_DVD070306-02.exe

some complete tests are available on an asiatic website just search with google "windvd 8.0.8 8600"


So does this mean I need to UPDATE PowerDVD Version 7.3 in order to take advantage of my new 8500 GT (In Transit) features?


Any info regarding Update Benefits / Requirements would be Very Much Appreciated.

[zais]

Hello,

I made the update before testing, but I think that the update is required,


pcinlife;com/article/graphics/2007-04-18/1176863400d349_46.hxxx

[tristartristan]

I want to know what the real video quality of 8600 GTS NVIDIA compared to 7600 GT...

[arfster]

I want to know what the real video quality of 8600 GTS NVIDIA compared to 7600 GT...

Yeah, me too. Looking at the layout of the 8500/8600 it probably should be the same as the 8800, but you never know what bugs NVidia felt compelled to add.

[eskimo2176]

HAving just received my 8500GT (Gigabyte passive HDCP) I can say there is a definate improvement in video quality. The color depth is definately superior to the 7xxx part I was using before.

I also saw a drop in VC-1 CPU by roughly 20%, I am not seeing any change in x.264 but that's probably a problem on my end I would imagine. Any thoughts here? I am using FFDshow for h.264 playback, so I am assuming I won't get any hardware acceleration there, or?

[Diggety]

Anandtech just put up their review:

http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2975&p=1

Havnt read it yet, but thought others might be interested.

[popechild]

HAving just received my 8500GT (Gigabyte passive HDCP) I can say there is a definate improvement in video quality. The color depth is definately superior to the 7xxx part I was using before.

I also saw a drop in VC-1 CPU by roughly 20%, I am not seeing any change in x.264 but that's probably a problem on my end I would imagine. Any thoughts here? I am using FFDshow for h.264 playback, so I am assuming I won't get any hardware acceleration there, or?

Are you running xp or vista? supposedly xp support for the h.264 acceleration won't be out until june...

[popechild]

Anandtech just put up their review:

http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2975&p=1

Havnt read it yet, but thought others might be interested.
Doesn't look like they tested the hd capabilities at all. The review is almost entirely game-based, which doesn't really help for those of us just interested in the card from an htpc point of view.

[eskimo2176]

Are you running xp or vista? supposedly xp support for the h.264 acceleration won't be out until june...


Vista Home Premium

[sold]

Doesn't look like they tested the hd capabilities at all. The review is almost entirely game-based, which doesn't really help for those of us just interested in the card from an htpc point of view.

It does say at the beginning that "A deeper look at the G84's video processing capabilities will also follow", so hopefully there should be something soon.

From a gaming point of view however the results are rather disappointing.

[Powerage]

HAving just received my 8500GT (Gigabyte passive HDCP) I can say there is a definate improvement in video quality. The color depth is definately superior to the 7xxx part I was using before.

I also saw a drop in VC-1 CPU by roughly 20%, I am not seeing any change in x.264 but that's probably a problem on my end I would imagine. Any thoughts here? I am using FFDshow for h.264 playback, so I am assuming I won't get any hardware acceleration there, or?

The test results @ the top of this page used PowerDVD that may boost your H.264 acceleration?

[FACP]

Doesn't look like they tested the hd capabilities at all. The review is almost entirely game-based, which doesn't really help for those of us just interested in the card from an htpc point of view.

yep, i stopped reading it as soon as I noticed they were all gaming benchmarks. I'm not interested at gaming at all and would love to see a review of these cards used solely for hd/hd-dvd/bd playback.

[sharangad]

Are you running xp or vista? supposedly xp support for the h.264 acceleration won't be out until june...


I have an 8600 GTS on XP SP2. The DirectX capabilities on XP only claim MPEG-2 support. But this is done in the drivers. The CPU utilisation is insanely high for MPEG-2 decoding. SD MPEG-2 takes as much CPU as HD MPEG-2 used to take with the 7600 GT. The deinterlacing is better, but I don't think it's done on the card. Most of the CPU utilisation is in the kernel so the drivers are doing the decoding but 'tis not being done on the card.

For example 1080i HD MPEG-2 on my machine (Sempron 3400 (2.0 GHz), XP SP2, 1.5 GB DDR400) with the 7600 used to take around 40% CPU on average with the nVidia Purevideo decoder. When the 8600 GTS is put in, SD MPEG-2 (576i25 PAL MCE recordings, DVR-MS MPEG-2) take 40-45% of the CPU. The deinterlacing is better but 'tis definitely not being done on the card even though the Purevideo decoder reports that 'tis in DXVA modes A/B.


Here're the capabilities list fromDXDiag.

---------------
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GTS
Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Chip type: GeForce 8600 GTS
DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_0400&SUBSYS_82411043&REV_A1
Display Memory: 256.0 MB
Current Mode: 1440 x 900 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor: Plug and Play Monitor
Monitor Max Res: 1600,1200
Driver Name: nv4_disp.dll
Driver Version: 6.14.0011.5819 (English)
DDI Version: 9 (or higher)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Driver Date/Size: 4/12/2007 23:44:00, 5433216 bytes
WHQL Logo'd: n/a
WHQL Date Stamp: n/a
VDD: n/a
Mini VDD: nv4_mini.sys
Mini VDD Date: 4/12/2007 23:44:00, 6738656 bytes
Device Identifier: {D7B71E3E-4740-11CF-4865-4AA200C2CB35}
Vendor ID: 0x10DE
Device ID: 0x0400
SubSys ID: 0x82411043
Revision ID: 0x00A1
Revision ID: 0x00A1
Video Accel: ModeMPEG2_A ModeMPEG2_B ModeMPEG2_C ModeMPEG2_D
Deinterlace Caps: {6CB69578-7617-4637-91E5-1C02DB810285}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
{335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalStretch
{6CB69578-7617-4637-91E5-1C02DB810285}: Format(In/Out)=(UYVY,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
{335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(UYVY,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalStretch
{6CB69578-7617-4637-91E5-1C02DB810285}: Format(In/Out)=(YV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
{335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(YV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalStretch
{6CB69578-7617-4637-91E5-1C02DB810285}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
{335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalStretch

[scottnews]

yep, i stopped reading it as soon as I noticed they were all gaming benchmarks. I'm not interested at gaming at all and would love to see a review of these cards used solely for hd/hd-dvd/bd playback.

His tests were on a Core2 Extreme. When talking hd content I'd like to see something on the lower end, like an x2 4400+.



I have an 8600 GTS on XP SP2. The DirectX capabilities on XP only claim MPEG-2 support. But this is done in the drivers. The CPU utilisation is insanely high for MPEG-2 decoding. SD MPEG-2 takes as much CPU as HD MPEG-2 used to take with the 7600 GT. The deinterlacing is better, but I don't think it's done on the card. Most of the CPU utilisation is in the kernel so the drivers are doing the decoding but 'tis not being done on the card.

XP will not get hardware acceleration until June.

[CoolHost]

I am looking at the 8600gts for my new HTPC setup. Someone mentioned the AMD/ATI R600 cards are due out this month. Anyone know the date these new R600 cards hit the street? Might help with my decision to stick with the 8600gts or not. Thx

[eskimo2176]

Vista Home Premium

Well, after a little tinkering I figured it out.


I stopped the decoding in FFD show and let Powerdvd take over the h.264 decoding(as it is the only decoder on the system) and it works like a charm.

720p x.264 - 5-10%
1080p x.264 12-16%

[renethx]

The Inquirer (April 17, 2007) - Radeon HD to launch on May 14th (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38983)

"The plan is to invite close to 200 hacks to the Sheraton complex in Tunis, and throw them into the mix with a bunch of AMD and ATI executives. The problem is that company then plans a three-week silence period in the run up to launch."

DailyTech (April 24, 2007) - ATI Radeon HD 2900 XT Performance Benchmarks (http://www.dailytech.com/ATI+Radeon+HD+2900+XT+Performance+Benchmarks/article7043.htm)

"AMD is currently briefing select members of the press on its R600 architecture in the Tunisia, ..."

[Lamont3030]

Well, after a little tinkering I figured it out.


I stopped the decoding in FFD show and let Powerdvd take over the h.264 decoding(as it is the only decoder on the system) and it works like a charm.

720p x.264 - 5-10%
1080p x.264 12-16%

Hey eskimo can you give us some more specs on your setup. What CPU are you using and what display are you using. I'm seriously looking at the 8500GT because of it's passive cooling and HD decoding benefits....

[rocket_ed]

Has anyone tried S3 (standby) on the new cards yet? That seems like the last thing they typically get working reliably in new drivers.

[eskimo2176]

Hey eskimo can you give us some more specs on your setup. What CPU are you using and what display are you using. I'm seriously looking at the 8500GT because of it's passive cooling and HD decoding benefits....


Well I am running a C2D @ 3.2 however my CPU usage has decreased immensely. Additionally, the color is much better in this series of cards it seems.. I was running a 7950.

I picked up the HDCP 8500 GT from Gigabyte (the fanless) ..

HD DVD playback is flawless. It's working great. Low teens % decoding VC-1. Do not have a Blu Ray drive to test. :/

[mightydarwin]

I'm also considering the AMD/ATI R600 coming out this month. Apparently it will have the audio on the HDMI output. But I have no idea on the pricing that will be offered.

http://www.hardspell.com/english/doc/showcont.asp?news_id=445

if this is true, that's what, sometime between July 1 and September 30?

I read somewhere the AVIVO HD will offload 100% of H.264 and VC-1.

I'm under the impression though that more HD/BD movies have been encoded with H.264. If so, then until the Radeon HD series comes out the 8500/8600 nVidia cards should serve well and if you have a very powerful CPU the CPU% load might not be that noticeable on VC-1 movies.

[arfster]

If so, then until the Radeon HD series comes out the 8500/8600 nVidia cards should serve well and if you have a very powerful CPU the CPU% load might not be that noticeable on VC-1 movies.


Even with most low-end CPUs and a 8500 you'll be fine for VC1 - it really isn't very demanding.

AVIVO offloading 100% of VC1 (as opposed to the approx 50% that the 7300gs+/8500/8600/8800 manage) will only make a difference for really old boxes - at a guess, <2ghz single core athlons or <2.5ghz Pentiums.

[Valnar]

Even with most low-end CPUs and a 8500 you'll be fine for VC1 - it really isn't very demanding.

AVIVO offloading 100% of VC1 (as opposed to the approx 50% that the 7300gs+/8500/8600/8800 manage) will only make a difference for really old boxes - at a guess, <2ghz single core athlons or <2.5ghz Pentiums.

Yes, but does anyone know if the quality will be better? Several years ago, everybody recommended ATI as the best visual quality. NVidia jumped ahead these last couple years with their VMR9 implementation. Has anyone compared the latest and greatest from both ATI and NVidia in the last couple months? Which is still the preferred video card for an HTPC?

Robert

[barth2k]

Even with most low-end CPUs and a 8500 you'll be fine for VC1 - it really isn't very demanding.

AVIVO offloading 100% of VC1 (as opposed to the approx 50% that the 7300gs+/8500/8600/8800 manage) will only make a difference for really old boxes - at a guess, <2ghz single core athlons or <2.5ghz Pentiums.


On my x2 3800+ @2.5ghz and 7600GT, VC1 averages about 55% cpu using powerdvd with DXVA active, so I wouldn't mind some help there too.


Yes, but does anyone know if the quality will be better? Several years ago, everybody recommended ATI as the best visual quality. NVidia jumped ahead these last couple years with their VMR9 implementation. Has anyone compared the latest and greatest from both ATI and NVidia in the last couple months? Which is still the preferred video card for an HTPC?


I can't cite the source, but I've read several postings in avsforum and elsewhere of people saying ATI's overlay looks as good if not better than nvidia's VMR9. don't know if that's true or not.

[BigAl]

Yes, but does anyone know if the quality will be better? Several years ago, everybody recommended ATI as the best visual quality. NVidia jumped ahead these last couple years with their VMR9 implementation. Has anyone compared the latest and greatest from both ATI and NVidia in the last couple months? Which is still the preferred video card for an HTPC?

Robert

Yeah, that's still the outstanding question... although the earlier posts by eskimo make it sound positive.

[StanF]

The 8500 passive sounds like a steal at $100. But...what software is required to make it work??? I'm running MCE2005 and using FFDShow to decode .mkv (x.264) files.

It sounds like:

1) I will have to wait until ~July for the new Purevideo HD drivers.

2) I will need a new version of CoreAVC or something that supports hardware acceleration (FFDshow doesn't)

What am I missing?

Thanks!

[Valnar]

Yeah, that's still the outstanding question... although the earlier posts by eskimo make it sound positive.

I wouldn't mind someone to second that notion (for verification). If that's true, overlay uses far less CPU resources than VMR9.

I have an old ATI 9600 card now and yes, my overlay looks nice. I haven't even tried VMR9 because I don't have the ponies to do so. However, I also don't have a 100" projector where I would even notice - just a 36" HDTV.

Robert

[arfster]

....
2) I will need a new version of CoreAVC or something that supports hardware acceleration (FFDshow doesn't)

What am I missing?


Nothing, that's right. Waiting for CoreAVC hardware acceleration might take a while though - they've been promising it for a year. However, WinDVD and PowerDVD already supported PV2.

[StanF]

Nothing, that's right. Waiting for CoreAVC hardware acceleration might take a while though - they've been promising it for a year. However, WinDVD and PowerDVD already supported PV2.

But I do not believe that there is a way to use PowerDVD or WinDVD in MCE2005?

Thanks,

Stan

[nc88keyz]

I am building a new HTPC

Ordered the following:
E6420 and asus 650i chipset mobo 194.xx Mobo was a trade for a P4T and 1.4 wiliamette P4, and some ram.
arctic freezer pro 7 23.xx
500gb 7200.10 sata3 x 2 135.xx
Gigabyte 8600GTS SPIII 194.xx
HD HomeRun - 169.xx
2GB OCZ XLT Platiunum kit 109 after MIR

I have to save up for the Zalman HD160 touchscreen case or I might just keep the Dvine D4 i got now.

I got the last 8600GTS at ClubIT for a killer price. Out of stock right after my order at 2 am. :)

Im looking forward to upgrading as I have a 6600GT now. I just gotta figure out how to get my 65" mits updated. Its dated with no HDMI or DVI, 3 components HD inputs. 1080I(no 720P, 1080P)

In closing.....I just couldnt spend all this money and get the 8500GT, I have to go middle at least. Its a great card im sure but I just wanted to go one step above.

[arfster]

But I do not believe that there is a way to use PowerDVD or WinDVD in MCE2005?


WinDVD I don't know, but you can use PDVD codecs in any Directshow app (just as you're using ffdshow).

[mattpattberg]

WinDVD I don't know, but you can use PDVD codecs in any Directshow app (just as you're using ffdshow).

MyMovies beta 2.3 (http://mymovies.name/downloads.aspx) is supposed to use the actual pdvd program to play hd dvd and blu-ray. Pretty sure just using the codecs right now won't get you hardware assist. I think as it stands right now you can't use mce 2005 and get the advanced decode support for 8500/8600... Not until june anyway (mce 2005 is base on xp pro).

[arfster]

[QUOTE=mattpattbergI think as it stands right now you can't use mce 2005 and get the advanced decode support for 8500/8600... Not until june anyway (mce 2005 is base on xp pro).[/QUOTE]

Yes, you're definitely right there - the XP drivers are a bit crippled for now.

[saintsaints]

Nvidia site shows full H.264 and VC1 decode acceleration for most of their video cards using purevideo, most don't have hdcp. I don't know why you need hdcp with these cards and the review doesn't say what advantage benefit you get video quality wise with hdcp,

[QUOTE=renethx]http://www.i4u.com/full-review-205.html

"The XFX 8600 GT XXX won’t really be able to take advantage of the PureVideo HD benefits though since it does not support HDCP."QUOTE]

[eskimo2176]

Nvidia site shows full H.264 and VC1 decode acceleration for most of their video cards using purevideo, most don't have hdcp. I don't know why you need hdcp with these cards and the review doesn't say what advantage benefit you get video quality wise with hdcp,

[QUOTE=renethx]http://www.i4u.com/full-review-205.html

"The XFX 8600 GT XXX won’t really be able to take advantage of the PureVideo HD benefits though since it does not support HDCP."QUOTE]

Technically you are not able to play HD DVD or BluRay discs without a HDCP compliant display and card. At least not at full resolution.

But for x.264 clips or other encodes it works fine.

[Valnar]

I assume the latest NVidia cards have temperature monitors on them like previous generations? If so - if anyone gets one of the Gigabyte fan-less models (8500GT and 8600GTS, I think), I would love to know how hot they get in a typical low air-flow HTPC case.

Robert

[Powerage]

MyMovies beta 2.3 (http://mymovies.name/downloads.aspx) is supposed to use the actual pdvd program to play hd dvd and blu-ray. Pretty sure just using the codecs right now won't get you hardware assist. I think as it stands right now you can't use mce 2005 and get the advanced decode support for 8500/8600... Not until june anyway (mce 2005 is base on xp pro).


Has anyone here tried MyMovies 2.3 with PowerDVD as the default player using one of the new N 85/86 cards?

[walford]

[QUOTE=saintsaints]
Technically you are not able to play HD DVD or BluRay discs without a HDCP compliant display and card. At least not at full resolution.
.

I thought that you only needed HDCP if the HD/BR DVD has content protection implemented and that so far none of the studios have implemented content protection on any of their HD/BR DVD releases.

The manufacturer of a 8500GT or 8600GT card implement HDCP on the card if they want to. Here is one card that has it:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125062

[arfster]

I thought that you only needed HDCP if the HD/BR DVD has content protection implemented and that so far none of the studios have implemented content protection on any of their HD/BR DVD releases.


That's ICT you're thinking of. HDCP is needed on any digital connection outputting HDDVD/Bluray, else it could be copied with bit-for-bit perfection.

[walford]

arfster,
Thank you for the information.
Based on your response I searched and found the following link which desribes HDCP and ICT in a little more detail and I now feel that I understand the use of each one.

[tristartristan]

I want to know who's get the JVC RS1 here????



did you succeed in putting 1080p/24 inside?

[ol623]

Hi,
Do the Gigabyte passive cards take up 1 or 2 slots?

[ZetaEpyon]

Just got my 8500GT yesterday; haven't had a chance to test it yet, since the rest of my parts arrive today, but it should only take 1 slot.

[Powerage]

Received my Gagabyte 8500 GT from newegg yesterday and did the followi