Could use some help on paint ideas. I am on my third coat of ceiling paint. First was Ralf Lauren dark tint primer and then matte - very dark brown. Could see every roller mark, and had quite a sheen. Next, tried Olympic ceiling flat black, rolled it on, and it has quite a sheen as well, though roller marks are not showing. Now for the expert advise: What type (manufacturer and source) of black paint can I put on the ceiling that will be totally flat and sheen free?
thanks in advance...
Dave

I am in the same situations as you are. I am going to try some Flat Behr tomorrow.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=834325&page=1&pp=30

I had the same problem with the pre-mixed "flat" black Painter's Touch from Home Depot. No matter what surface I put it on or if I brushed/rolled it came out looking somewhere between satin and semigloss.

But I used Behr flat just 2 days ago and it thankfully has that chalky, matte finish that the sample chips promise.

All flat paints are not created equal.

All flat paints are not created equal.Boy, is that an understatement. One company's flat is another's semi-gloss. Valspar American Traditions from Lowe's for instance... their flat would be about half-way between Sherwin-Williams' satin and semi-gloss paints. They're THAT different.

Now, Sherwin-Williams flat paint is REALLY FLAT. Think 200 or 300 grit sand paper flat. It's so flat, it's like a chalkboard. It would show every fingerprint and every mark. Forget about ever wiping anything off of it because it would probably make more of a mess of the wall than what you were trying to wipe off.

SC

With flat paint sometimes it's easier to just repaint the spot with a small touch-up roller than it is to try to clean it. I try to keep a decent supply of touch-up paint on hand and once every few months go through the house to repaint the various dents and dings that occur through regular living.

Had excellant results with Disney's "Theatre Black".... find it at the Depot....

Ask for it in a Flat..

Used a Behr primer 3oz of black per gallon added... was a dark gray...

Thanks for the tip.

I too am just about at the paint stage.......and am looking for ideas.

Cheers,
Jay



Had excellant results with Disney's "Theatre Black".... find it at the Depot....

Ask for it in a Flat..

Used a Behr primer 3oz of black per gallon added... was a dark gray...

I know it probably isn't practical but has anyone tried spraying the ceiling? For those that are planning to cover the walls with fabric you wouldn't really have to be all that careful. I've seen builders that spray an entire house interior. Like I said perhaps not practical for everyone but it seems like a sure fire way to keep from getting roller marks.

I used Benjamin Moore's Twilight Black and am very happy with the results.

I've actually had great luck with the Walmat Interior Flat Latex, mixed to black...I believe they use a tinted base, but any Walmart should be able to do the mix. At about 9 bucks a gallon, it's cheap and was effective for my job...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=733488

Uncle Willie

Your first mistake was using Ralph Lauren. Everyone I know thinks it's crap and I'd agree. Behr, on the other hand is great stuff. It's all I've used over the past two decades and it hasn't let me down once.

Some also swear by Sherwin Williams as well but it's an extra trip to get it, (I'm almost always stopping in at HD for something or another! :D )

Good tip on the Disney theater black! I'll have to look that up this fall when I finish my own place.

Lots of good tips. Will have to look up the Disney black also. Last night I nailed up a section of the crown molding I chose to conceal the rope light for test purposes. I painted the back of the molding light aqua marine, and the soffit the same color. It really creates a nice glow flowing up from the molding - BUT - there is a WHITE reflection on the dang ceiling. It is unbelievable. My wife hates it. Now we are scratching our heads, what to do??? First idea is another crown molding at the corner or a 4" wide strip of black felt on the ceiling next to the soffit. Maybe the Disney black would be a better solution...
Dave

I like the idea of spraying.... not for everyone, but I think it might work for me.

Concerning paints and "touching up" areas, I had a professional painter, older fellow about 65 years old spend 2 weeks at my house last year painting the main foyer and living rooms. He uses nothing but Sherwin Williams and he said that if we have any spots to touch up use a sponge to apply the paint. I noticed he had a sponge on him the whole time he was there.

Well thinking about this further...how about a survey? Here is what we have so far:
Ralf Lauren Matte (Home Despot) - poor, sheen
Olympic Flat Ceiling Black (Lowes) - fair, some sheen
Behr Flat - chalky, matte finish that sample chips promise
Painter's Touch Flat Black (Wal*Mart) - poor, sheen
Valspar American Traditions (Lowes) - poor, between satin and semi-gloss
Sherwin-Williams flat - good, REALLY FLAT
Disney's "Theatre Black" flat (Home Despot) - good
Benjamin Moore's Twilight Black - very happy with result
Walmat Interior Flat Latex black - cheap and effective

Well thinking about this further...how about a survey? Here is what we have so far:


Ralf Lauren Matte (Home Despot) - poor, sheen = DON'T USE THIS...I TRIED IT AND IT IS BAD

Olympic Flat Ceiling Black (Lowes) - fair, some sheen = DON'T USE THIS...I TRIED IT AND IT IS BAD


Behr Flat - chalky, matte finish that sample chips promise = I USED THIS AND IT IS GREAT!!!!!!

Well guys, the verdict is in. I went back to Home Despot and picked up flat Behr mixed to Mickey Mouse black. It is SO much flatter than the Ralf Lauren and Olympic. We were ready to put up a textured wallpaper, or line the edges with flocked paper. This just might work (only have 4 various coats of paint on the ceiling now...). After it dries, I'll snap some pics and post them.
Dave

Get the good rollers..... Worth the money

I've been painting my whole house recently and had a lot of success with Behr paint, they just seem better and I had a horrible experience with Sherwin Williams. I bought the premixed Glidden (another success) black from HD for the trim, (the ceiling was going to be chocolatey) I'll report back on how that goes.

Just hung the beast last night, I must say I am more than pleased with the paint results...have a look at progress to date, standing at about 92% complete:
Dave

Missing link?

Cheers,
Jay



Just hung the beast last night, I must say I am more than pleased with the paint results...have a look at progress to date, standing at about 92% complete:
Dave

Trying again with the pics...oh, now I see, the resolution was too high, cropped them a bit, now they are here!
Dave

Trying again with the pics...oh, now I see, the resolution was too high, cropped them a bit, now they are here!
Dave


It looks nice.
btw: which CRT projector do you have?

It is a Sony 1272 - I'm quite happy with it so far, but this is the first time I've had it mounted to the ceiling with the proper screen (1.3 gain, pure white). I've bought a scaler and am hoping to get to 720p with this thing, but with (better than good) focus.

I read an article in a magazine once about someone who used pure pigment on their walls. I assume it would cost a fortune to get a gallon or two of pure pigment, but I can't imagine a darker or deeper black than that.

I am having trouble finding flat pure Black paint. I think I saw Glidden had pure black at Lowes. I have not been happy with Glidden paint but I see no choice. Behr only has gloss pure black. Every store tries to mix it but I tell them if they fill the can with the pigment and add one drop of deep base, it is no longer black. They best mix I have seen was a dark charcoal. I would also like a alkyd semi-gloss/satin for the trim. I may just use Painters Touch oil base black for that.

Ben Moore Twilight (used to be Twilight Zone) black great stuff. Spray will be flatter for sure but requires way more prep and touch up is an issue IMO. Good news , rarely do you need to touch up the ceiling.

Art

Where is the ceiling? I think you forgot to put the ceiling back on.

I worked for ICI Paints until several years ago. One of the acquired lines was Sinclair Paints. Sinclair had a product called Acri--Vin that was a dead flat paint in accent colors and flat black that was designed for and used in the major production studios in Hollywood, to reduce glare and reflections in filming. I just painted my new theater ceiling and screen wall with it and it worked very well, very flat for a black and it covered very well. It is still in some of the ICI stores in the L.A. and San Diego areas. If you were to request it from any of the stores in the West, I'm sure they can order it in for you.

Harold

Anyone used the Kilz brand from Wal-Mart in flat black? I got 2 gallons of that stuff last weekend, but haven't tried it yet. Talk about THICK. I've heard good things about Kilz paint, but don't have any experience with it yet.

I bought flat Kilz from Wally World in a cream color for the walls of a duplex that I own. It was the highest/cheapest rated paint in Consumers Report. What a mistake that was. Not good at all, didn't hide or cover very well, took two coats. No idea about the black. I'm still very happy with the Flat black Behr. There was no black Behr color, but the Home Depot dude told me Behr is responsible for the Disney colors. The Mickey Mouse Ears black is really black - maybe on the bluish side a bit, which makes it seem more black.

I got my pj fired up today with the new screen and scaler - WOW!

Having fun,
Dave

I thought Kilz was a mildew-killing paint, no?

-drin

Does Mickey Mouse Ears black come premixed?

Mickey is a tint base mixed color. I tried the premixed Olympic Flat Black Ceiling and it was NOT good. Not black enough and more like an egg-shell with lots of sheen. The Behr with Mickey is fine.

Have a look at the attached photos.
Dave

Update on the Kilz Flat Black from Wal-Mart:

To begin with, my HT was completely primed in a stark white Sherwin Williams primer. I was a bit skeptical of covering that with black, to say the least. Kilz guarantees one coat coverage. Believe it or not, I was able to get ONE-COAT coverage with their flat black. All ya gotta do it make sure you lay it on thick, which isn't hard since the paint itself is the consistency of road tar. I painted my equipment room and screen wall yesterday. One coat was all it took. There were a few spots where I had to hit it again, (the wall is textured.. makes it hard to get good coverage) but even after it dried, I had no noticeable roller marks. This stuff is BLACK, and doesn't seem to mark up too easily. I was kinda worried about that. I'll try to get some pics tonight if possible.

That stuff made my equipment room so dark, my 500-watt halogen flood work light looked like a 30 watt incandescent bulb. Talk about suck the light out of the room!

I'm not doing my ceiling black, but I do plan on having the wall this same flat black from the chair-rail down, as well as the underside of the soffits.

Kilz flat black (using their Base 3....from Wal-Mart) for equipment room, screen wall, and lower walls.
Martha Stewart Umbrella (in eggshell...from Lowes) for ceiling and upper walls.


Scotty

Good question on wall and accent colors with a flat black ceiling KBGL...I've created a new thread to get this info. See the thread titled: "Wall and Accent Colors with Flat Black Ceiling ?"
Dave

I've recently painted by ht ceiling and would like to share how I did it. I used a flat custom mixed paint purchased from HD. My post is not about the paint but how I painted it. I used a paint sprayer. I was amazed that I painted my ceiling in no time and did not get paint all over the room. It came out with no marks and was evenly painted.

The sprayer I used was purchased from harborfreight. A good deal at the price.

Itemnumber=44677

people,

for a nice flat blak - try a flat "dry fall" paint - that is the flatest paint I have ever seen - but you do have to spray it.........

Rod

Well I tried the Behr Flat Black (Beluga) on my new ceiling and it looks like crap. Im waiting for the paint to fully dry and see what the results will be but as of right now....BLAH !

My ceiling is brand new drywall so I used a tinted primer for new drywall, 2 coats.
Let the primer dry for two days then did my 1st coat of black. Let it dry for one day and I could see all the roller marks. :(

Today I applied the second coat and, dear geebus, it looks just as bad. Im hoping after all the solvents dry out, the paint job will look good. :rolleyes:

Here's part of my screen wall with the Kilz Flat Black from Wal-Mart. One coat. The only thing I can see is the dust on my camera lense. This is with the lights up and with flash.

http://media.mopartech.net/files/black.jpg

Looked at my ceiling this morning and boy am I dissapointed. :mad: The roller marks are still there. Some will need to be wet sanded. :( So much for a $10 roller.

I might try the Kilz Flat Black like HTScotty did !

I love the stuff. One coat was all it took. No roller marks (at least for me).

Use a 3/8ths nap roller and you should be set. Just make sure you lay it on thick if the wall is textured.

Thanks for the tips HTScotty ! The paint is for my ceiling only and it is smooth. I'll run by Wally World tonight and pick it up. Is it a special mix or "Off the shelf" ?

Here's part of my screen wall with the Kilz Flat Black from Wal-Mart. One coat. The only thing I can see is the dust on my camera lense. This is with the lights up and with flash.

http://media.mopartech.net/files/black.jpg

Is this Kilz from walmart premixed? If not, what exactly do you ask for? (Black with dark base?). I think I will try this.

Just ask for Kilz Flat Black. Make sure they use the Base 3 to mix it with and you're set. I have the actual paint code at home from the container (which is kinda cool since it is a plastic bottle with a screw top). If you wanna wait, I'll post that tonight. If not, I'm sure you'll be fine with just asking for it like I did. Don't be alarmed by the thickness either. It's THICK.

I think the main trick to this stuff is NOT to try and spread it more than it really wants to. As soon as it's running thin on the roller, re-load it. My equipment closet does have some roller marks, but it's where I tried to make the paint go further than I should have. (which is why I did that room first.... to learn) Realistically, you should only do around 3 sq-ft or so each time you load the roller. It should appear wet on the surface you're painting. Don't try to make it spread too far. I hope all this makes sense.

Edit:
Almost forgot. I used an el-cheapo 3/8ths nap roller. Nothing special. As a matter of fact, it was the one that came with the cheap roller handle I bought.

Just ask for Kilz Flat Black. Make sure they use the Base 3 to mix it with and you're set. I have the actual paint code at home from the container (which is kinda cool since it is a plastic bottle with a screw top). If you wanna wait, I'll post that tonight. If not, I'm sure you'll be fine with just asking for it like I did. Don't be alarmed by the thickness either. It's THICK.

Did you ever happen to note the paint code? No hurry, I just want to check what walmart's employee tries to mix for me.

B-12

Basically, just ask for flat black and tell them you want it as black as they can make it. I bought another gallon yesterday and finished my lower walls. All I did was ask for "flat black with Kilz Base 3.... make it as black as you can". I'm pretty sure the code was B-12, but I could be mistaken. I'll double check tonight, promise!!

On a related note.......THIS is what Valspar paint did for my ceiling with only one coat.... and I used a whole gallon on the ceiling alone:
http://media.mopartech.net/files/valspar.jpg


This was after one coat of Kilz.... and only used a little over 1/2 a gallon. The only thing I can see is the texture where they stomped the ceiling. This is with the flash on the camera with the lights up full. I decided to change the color a bit, and overall I'm very happy with the results. The color on the ceiling is called Ink Drop. It's a Kilz "Casual Colors" color. It looks almost black with the lights down, but looks faded with all the light on it. It's closer to the shade that's down at the bottom of the soffit area.
http://media.mopartech.net/files/inkdrop.jpg

For anyone trying this stuff out..... you WILL see roller marks until the stuff is COMPLETELY dry. The above pic is after about 2 hours. After that, you should be set. Just make sure you reload your roller frequently. I do about a 2x2 section and add paint. If you use a 1/2 nap roller like they recommend, then it will most likely go farther.

Edit:

The paint code on the label is B-15.
It is made with their Base 3 Interior Flat Latex.

HT, looks pretty good! Not sure if it is just a camera effect, but it really looks bluish. I noticed that the Behr has more of a blue tint than red. It helps.
Also, I can say that the Behr is very black, since I only put on one coat, I can still see speckles from the "shiny" flat black Olympic underneath. Guess I just got lazy after putting on four coats (first was primer, second a mistake at dark chocolate, third Olympic flat black)...it really should have two coats of Behr.
Dave

Another vote for Behr. I used their Bear's Den (dark brown) and it looks great - kind of a leathery look to it. No roller marks either.

Benjamin Moore is always a good bet as well - they make quality paints.

I picked up samples of the Beluga, Disney's Cinema Black (not theater black), and some others from Lowes.

The wife and I laid them out together and started narrowing down the choices, it came down to Beluga and Cinema Black (we did not get a sample of the Killz Black, since there are no samples it if available). There actually was a 3rd one and I don't remember the name right now, but it would be a last choice of the 3. The Beluga is rally realle black, and the Cinema black is probably real close to it.

Thanks for all the suggestions and ideas.

Hi all,

Just about to throw up some Behr Mouse Ears flat black. Edging tonight......roller tomorrow. The ceiling is textured, I'll let everyone know my thoughts when I'm done.

Jay

Hello,

I have tried several different black paints as well and could see roller marks each time until I discovered the Benjamin Moore Twilight Zone black. This stuff is fantastic! I used Benjamin Moore grey primer first and I was very satisfied with just one coat of black paint but I still had enough left in the can for another coat and I would have to say it is now perfect.

Just my two cents.

Rob

Gents,
I sprayed my ceiling and front wall with Twilight Zone Black and it is FLAT and BLACK! It is so flat that it does show every touch and bump. I got around this on the front wall by making my own "suede "paint ala Ralph Lauren. I took a gallon of the T.Z.B. ( I bought 2 originally, had one left over) and added black glitter and black sand to it that I purchased at a craft store. I then criss-crossed it onto the front wall like you would the suede paint and BINGO! no more touch marks. It is still black as it gets and touch proof to boot. Plus it adds a little visual interest when the lights are up...

Here is a link to some room shots - feel free to snoop around (http://new.photos.yahoo.com/documentarymaker/album/576460762320115037)

Kevin

Looking good! I hope Jay posts pics soon!
Dave

Hey everyone.....

Just as an update.....the ceiling turned out great. As for the screen wall, I only have one coat done so far and of course there are roller marks. I will get the second coat done tonight.....wait for it to dry and try to post some pictures. Funny how Kids/work/dog/everything else keeps eating away at my painting time!

Jay

Guys:

thanks for the pics- it's helpful for my HT build. Please include both pics; (a) of lights out+proj on and (b) lights on- as it shows what the room looks like normally.

For me: I have a botched ceiling job that I'm trying to salvage. So I need something that hides a LOT of waves in the ceiling. Was thinking of a suede. But I want it pitch black during the movie- and Sherwin Williams didn't have that in a suede. Perhaps the make your own suede mentioned above would help. Also might be able to use an odorless paint (and placate my wife).
What colors do you recommend - that gives pitch black , but something not depressing when used in light?

Just for clarification.... in the pics above, my ceiling is NOT black. It's a color called Ink Drop from Kilz. It's supposed to look bluish. The screen wall and lower walls ARE flat black Kilz.

Just for clarification.... in the pics above, my ceiling is NOT black. It's a color called Ink Drop from Kilz. It's supposed to look bluish. The screen wall and lower walls ARE flat black Kilz.


do you have a pic of the ceiling during a movie?

Hehe... I wish. The room is still not completed. I'm workin' on it!

I'll have the room completely done in a few weeks. Heck, we're not even moved into the house yet. (new construction)

cgott -

I used many cans of spray on ceiling texture to give mine a slightly bumpy texture before I painted it black. Its not the popcorn, its a latex mix that looks more like pimples all over the ceiling. The spray cans come with three diffrent straws so you can choose the level (size) of the bumps that you like best. I ended up using the straw that made the biggest bumps. Your results may vary. BTW for my 19x26 theater I ended up going through like 7 or 8 cans of this stuff at about 11-12 bucks a can!! Well worth it. It hides minor imperfections in the ceiling, adds visual interest, and was easy to install.

Kevin -

I put on a coat of the Kilz flat from wally world last night.
With the recessed lights and the wall sconces on it looks good, but the camera flash shows a ton of roller marks. I think I may hit it with another coat in a few spots and see how it goes, I don't think I have quite enough for a second coat on the whole thing.

I used Benjamin Moore Black #21580. Very satisfied.

Skip

I went to HD to buy Disney Theater balck for the ceiling panels. The HD guy said to just get Behr Flat Black as they are both the same paint. I asked him to add the grey primer. I ended up buying a gallon of primer and a gallon of behr flat black. Do I use primer to paint the white panels and then paint them black?
Thanks.

cgott42 it sounds as if you have the same problem I HAD. My ceiling was a disaster in terms of unprofessional finishing work by the drywallers. It was a kiddie's play room, so the previous owners obviously didn't care. I tried to touch it up with mud in the obvious places and sanded with a pole sander. Putting the really dark black paint up masked all of the imperfections. I am VERY pleased with the outcome. Two pics attached. One of the room before starting, and one with the lights full on - note that the ceiling looks brownish in the final pic, but I assure you it is really black.
Dave

I used the Killz primer and ended up using 2 coats of it. Then used the Behr - Disney Mouse Ears Black. Boy is that BLACK paint !!! I had to use two coats get get enough covereage, but now my entertainment nook looks like a doorway to a black hole in space.

Light enters and NOTHING, I mean NOTHING is reflected back.

The only thing left to do is change out a few white cables that I forgot I had back behind everything. They stick out like sore thumbs now. LOL.

I used the Killz primer and ended up using 2 coats of it. Then used the Behr - Disney Mouse Ears Black. Boy is that BLACK paint !!! I had to use two coats get get enough covereage, but now my entertainment nook looks like a doorway to a black hole in space.

Light enters and NOTHING, I mean NOTHING is reflected back.

I used the same paint, and it is indeed like a black hole. Very easy to work with too.

No pics yet.....but another vote for Mouse Ears black. Screen wall, ceiling and recessed shelves. Have to say I'm pretty darn happy with the result.

Jay

Here's a picture of mine.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3/consolenexus/HT/100_1625.jpg

cgott42 it sounds as if you have the same problem I HAD. My ceiling was a disaster in terms of unprofessional finishing work by the drywallers. It was a kiddie's play room, so the previous owners obviously didn't care. I tried to touch it up with mud in the obvious places and sanded with a pole sander. Putting the really dark black paint up masked all of the imperfections. I am VERY pleased with the outcome. Two pics attached. One of the room before starting, and one with the lights full on - note that the ceiling looks brownish in the final pic, but I assure you it is really black.
Dave


thanks,
I did the same, painted the ceiling with Mouse Ears Black,
very happy with the result, it looks ok now.
There's one spot that still looks ugly (but I'm thinking of ceiling mounting the projector there anyway, so that should cover it up.
Or any other ideas of what to put there to cover it up.

I'll post pics soon,
Jon

Hey Joe,
You have some monster speakers there to go with your new screen wall!

I looked at the Behr black suede (S-H-790) and the sample looks really nice. Much less reflective than all the other black samples I found at HD. Has anyone tried this one? I never found a Behr "flat black", can you give me the color code?

What do you guys think of painting all the walls and ceiling black? I've never been in an all black room, is it really that uncomfortable when the lights are on? Another idea is to paint the ceiling and screen wall black and the other walls dark grey. Haven't picked a carpet yet, but it will probably be dark grey or black and high traffic.

This is an ok site for checking out the different colors...
http://www.behr.com/behrx/workbook/

Hey Joe,
You have some monster speakers there to go with your new screen wall!

Yeah, I think they're a bit much. I need to downsize... :) Those are my old speakers from my old living room before we moved.

I'm actually in the process of researching possible DIY speakers in a way to keep costs down, though I'm not exactly sure if any savings will be meaningful.

I used the behr flat black, mixed in some fine texture sand from a box and painted the celing with a single coat no visible roller marks and its completely black and very flat.

I used Valspar Ultra Premium Interior Flat Kettle Black and one coat was sufficient. However it is expensive (~$30) and very thick. Luckily, it dries out nice because you would never think it would look good right after you put it on-(don't know how to describe except for thick).

By the way I used Behr Premium in the past in other rooms and it always requires 2-3 coats.

YOu got that kettle black color at Lowes I assume. I used their American Traditions Flat black on my ceiling and it only took 1 coat of primer (white actually) and 2 coats of paint and it is completely smooth and no roller marks and very flat. Only issue I have now is during construction, the left over drywall dust that keeps getting stirred up has exhasted out the vents in a few areas where it was loose around the ducts due to the new layer of drywall.

http://mysite.verizon.net/reso83xw/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/window-after.jpg

Looking good! I had drywall dust at some "after the fact" duplex plug box installations, and actually skin where my elbow scraped the flat black during the CRT hanging ceremony. It wiped off with a damp micro-fiber cloth, dried fine, no issues.
Dave