fter reading many glowing reviews about the pannny plasma's I decided to pull the trigger and "upgrade" from my Vizo 50hdtv10 to a panny 58px60u model plasma.

I gotta say that everything looks dark and dull looking on the panny comapared to the vizio. The picture just doesn't "pop" like the vizio did. I am watching directv hdtv and it just is not giving me that wow factor that I was looking for.

Anyone else think that the panny just isin't that impressive?

Has either one been calibrated/adjusted?

What is your viewing distance?

Has either one been calibrated/adjusted?

I just got the panny yesterday so no. The vizio i ran through dve myself.

I did play with the picture settings a little. Out of the box the cinema mode is dark as can be. The vivid mode is artifact city and the standard mode needs quite a bit of work as well.

What is your viewing distance?

Approx 13.5-14 ft

I just got the panny yesterday so no. The vizio i ran through dve myself.

I did play with the picture settings a little. Out of the box the cinema mode is dark as can be. The vivid mode is artifact city and the standard mode needs quite a bit of work as well.

Make sure you have the CINEMA settings with the BLACK DETAIL set to LIGHT. Turn off all automatic settings and noise reduction.

Post your settings....

.....everything looks dark and dull looking on the panny comapared to the vizio. The picture just doesn't "pop" like the vizio did. I am watching directv hdtv and it just is not giving me that wow factor that I was looking for.What do you mean by "everything"? Exactly what kind of content are you talking about? DVD? Primetime HD? Regular SD?

And part of the problem could be DirecTV, which is known for less than optimal picture quality on SD and HD. How is your receiver connected to the TV?

And part of the problem could be DirecTV, which is known for less than optimal picture quality on SD and HD.

Time Warner, or any cable, is not as good as DTV satelite.

I was at the Best Buy yesterday and they had a calibrated panny next to a Pioneer and Samsung. Both the Pio and Samsung looked great but the Panasonic looked washed out with little detail.

Mines not calibrated and it looks amazing and if the Panny at BB looked washed out then it wasn't calibrated properly.

Post your settings....

Right now I am upstairs but I think they go something like this.

standard setting
+18 picture... any lower and its like im watching through dark glasses.
brightness+3
color-2
tint-0
sharpness-25
cool color temp
No other extras turned on.

Heres the thing, I watched criminal minds tonight side by side on the vizio and panasonic. The vizio was sharp, skin looked like real people with the stubble on the actors faces coming through in the HD picture.

The panasonic looked good... but the actors faces looked like a blob of makeup? maybe this is the clay face that I have read about? The colors were not as vibrant as on the vizio. when I turned the color up everything just turned a greenish tone then redish the higher I went.

Dont get me wrong, its looks good. Just not that awe inspiring picture that i thought I was going to see. It just seems as if the "details" that I see in the picture with the vizio is being lost somewhere in the picture on the panasonic.

I have seen the 50" pioneer at best buy and it stopped me in my tracks with its vibrant looking through the window type picture. Thats what I was hoping to get with the Panny.

Time Warner, or any cable, is not as good as DTV satelite.Boy are you wrong. Both SD and HD looks better on cable than satellite. You need to read the multitude of posts from people who have switched from satellite to cable as well as those who switched from cable to satellite. Just about all of them say that SD and HD looks better on cable, and my own testing proves this as well. I can save a lot of money by switching to DirecTV, but i wouldn't take the reduction in PQ if satellite were free. Really, scan the multitude of threads in the various forums here. If for some reason cable looks worse than satellite, then something is seriously wrong on that particular cable network or that particular city.

What do you mean by "everything"? Exactly what kind of content are you talking about? DVD? Primetime HD? Regular SD?

And part of the problem could be DirecTV, which is known for less than optimal picture quality on SD and HD. How is your receiver connected to the TV?

Its just seems I have to put the picture setting at least to +18 before the picture has any "life" to it what so ever. Put it to 0 and its pitch black

Something must be wrong with yours cause mine has that 3d pop you are talking about and my settings are.
standard
picture +10
brightness+3
color-2
tint-4
sharpness-7
color temp =normal
Blacks = light
See if you have C.A.T.S on I turned this off and like it a whole lot better.

Something must be wrong with yours cause mine has that 3d pop you are talking about and my settings are.
standard
picture +10
brightness+3
color-2
tint-4
sharpness-7
color temp =normal
Blacks = light
See if you have C.A.T.S on I turned this off and like it a whole lot better.

What is cats?

I know it darkens the screen some type of help for glare

I know it darkens the screen some type of help for glare

I dont remember seeing that option? I do have all digital nr turned off. I have no light in my viewing room so glare shouldn't be an issue.

Im not saying the TV doesn't look good but for the way people talked up the panny and the way they talk down the Vizio I am just surprised at the picture quality in both.

Then again the vizio would probably break on me in a few months and i would be screwed. I would have loved to buy the pioneer 6070, but it came in at $1400 more then the panny delivered from a authorized dealer here on the forums. thats quite alot for 2" of screen.

My mistake C.A.T.S may only be on the TH-58PX600U so I don't know what the problem might be all I can say when people come over they always comment on how it looks like its going to jump out and touch them.

I having owned both I feel the Panasonic has does have less pop than the Vizio. In my opinion that is because the colors of the Panny are more accurate, not because the Vizio is better. The Vizio is more vibrant at the expense of displaying things the way the filmmaker intended. The closest setting to this on the Panasonic is the Vivid mode but it is unwatchable.

Where the Vizio really falls down is in dark scenes... details become muddy to the point they are nearly unwatchable.... try watching Doom on the darkest scenes for a good example. Then watch it on the Panasonic for comparison. The Panny will blow it out of the water.

I noticed in your settings you don't mention if your Black Level is set to dark... this would kill your detail and could be your problem. It need to be set to light.

You might try the firmware update for the 60 to deal with:

"Poor picture details
Faces appear as "Clay Faces"
Excessive brightness with no details in the black level"

http://www.pasctraining.panasonic.com/SpecialApplications/ProductFirmwareDownloads/downloads1.asp

Time Warner, or any cable, is not as good as DTV satelite.


For the record, I have both DirecTV and Time Warner Cable. I've been a DirecTV customer for over 10 years, and their picture quality has gotten progressively worse, over the years. The NFL Sunday Ticket games that are not in HD are not even watchable! The only reason DirecTV still has my business is that I recently re-located from Boston to North Carolina, and I simply can't give up the Red Sox and Patriots! I believe at this stage in the game, cable offers a MUCH better picture quality than DTV does!


John from Boston

Mines not calibrated and it looks amazing and if the Panny at BB looked washed out then it wasn't calibrated properly.

disregard any panasonic comments by omletepants he has a grudge against then for some reason. He puts them down every chance he gets

I really want to pull the trigger on a 58PH600U for that bargin price but everytime when I went to the store to check them out, no matter HD channel, SD channel or DVD, the PQ of the Panny are always looks like from a 3rd tier manufactuer! Sammy & Pio are always draw my attention away from the Panny!

I really want to pull the trigger on a 58PH600U for that bargin price but everytime when I went to the store to check them out, no matter HD channel, SD channel or DVD, the PQ of the Panny are always looks like from a 3rd tier manufactuer! Sammy & Pio are always draw my attention away from the Panny!

YA RIGHT :D

At BB yesterday I watched a 42" Panasonic 75U next to a 42" Samsung. The Samsung did have a lot more detail than the Panny. I'm not talking about sharpness or edge enhancement. I'm talking about the actors' faces- I could discern their complexion on the Samsung, but on the Panasonic their skin was much smoother and less detailed.

Is this a calibration issue? The Panny did not look over saturated.

At BB yesterday I watched a 42" Panasonic 75U next to a 42" Samsung. The Samsung did have a lot more detail than the Panny. I'm not talking about sharpness or edge enhancement. I'm talking about the actors' faces- I could discern their complexion on the Samsung, but on the Panasonic their skin was much smoother and less detailed.

Is this a calibration issue? The Panny did not look over saturated.I'm guessing DNIE with its dynamic contrast and edge enhancement was enabled.

Here you can find some screenshots (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9762753&&#post9762753) comparing a Samsung display with DNIE on and off. With a quick glance in the store, and with certain demo material, DNIE can appear to produce a much more detailed image. However, in actual practice, DNIE often crushes blacks and magnifies picture artifacts / defects. The picture it produces is also a distorted (inaccurate) version of the source, as it manipulates colors to magnify differences in contrast.

I've talked to Samsung reps who said the DNIE "feature" was created and optimized primarily for the showroom floor. They didn't expect most enthusiasts to actually use that feature in their homes.


http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/2715/dnie5vf7.jpg

At BB yesterday I watched a 42" Panasonic 75U next to a 42" Samsung. The Samsung did have a lot more detail than the Panny. I'm not talking about sharpness or edge enhancement. I'm talking about the actors' faces- I could discern their complexion on the Samsung, but on the Panasonic their skin was much smoother and less detailed.

Is this a calibration issue? The Panny did not look over saturated.

Most assuredly a settings issue. The complexions of people on the Panasonic are very detailed when calibrated properly.

As an aside....At my local Best Buy they have the Panasonic sets fed by DVD versus everything else which is on the HD feed. The only Panasonic fed by HD had a green cast and static on the sceen from an obviously compromised signal. It has to be done on purpose.... if you were uneducated in plasma there is no way you leave there with a Panny.

Interesting, Salad. A salesman did try to talk me out of a Panny everytime I mentioned it.

BFDTV, that comparison looks just like the difference I saw.

Interesting, Salad. A salesman did try to talk me out of a Panny everytime I mentioned it.

BFDTV, that comparison looks just like the difference I saw.

it may look sharper at first, but look at the loss of detail with DNIE on most notably around the collar of his shirt and the dark part of his har by his ears.

this is what your settings should be on the 60u model when it's collaborated

Picture +22
Brightness +8
Color -1
Tint -4
Sharpness -14
Color Temperature Warm
Enhanced Black Level Off

got it from http://www.*******************.com/plasmatv.html

collaborated?? sounds like your blaming it on Borat. :)sorry couldn't help it.

just remember every set is different and may need different settings even when .....calibrated.

Every display off the assembly line is a little different. Hence, the the 'perfect settings' for every display are little different. However, they do represent a good starting point.

The settings listed above were obviously for a Panasonic plasma in a relatively brightly lit environment. If you spend a lot of time watching in a dimly lit room, those settings may be a bit on the bright side.

Be aware that most published settings for the 60U series apply to either the 50" or 42" versions. On the 58, I find that you can increase the sharpness quite a bit before you see artifacts. Depending on the source, naturally.

Most assuredly a settings issue. The complexions of people on the Panasonic are very detailed when calibrated properly.

As an aside....At my local Best Buy they have the Panasonic sets fed by DVD versus everything else which is on the HD feed. The only Panasonic fed by HD had a green cast and static on the sceen from an obviously compromised signal. It has to be done on purpose.... if you were uneducated in plasma there is no way you leave there with a Panny.


I find that alot of low end panel owners that jump to pannys or pioneers always question the P.Q., and in particular the vividness of the higher quality panels. The problem is that low ends panels like Vizio and others are so unrealistic with oversaturated colors and over blown contrast levels that almost everything shown on them looks like Tim Burton threw up. It's difficult to go from having everything looking like a Fruit Loop box to seeing true representations of what things should look like on screen. Most mistake accuracy for the lack of pop. :rolleyes:

Boy are you wrong. Both SD and HD looks better on cable than satellite. You need to read the multitude of posts from people who have switched from satellite to cable as well as those who switched from cable to satellite. Just about all of them say that SD and HD looks better on cable, and my own testing proves this as well. I can save a lot of money by switching to DirecTV, but i wouldn't take the reduction in PQ if satellite were free. Really, scan the multitude of threads in the various forums here.


I've looked and havent seen nothing that cable pq is better than satellite. I never seen one professional review that says cable PQ is better. I have not seen no reduction in pq with direcTv. I've compared OTA HD with directv channel playing the same thing and there is no difference. No cable company will ever TOUT that cable PQ is better like satellite does. The long runs of cable and all the sharing etc means signal reception will never be as good. Neither will be the Audio. DirecTv or dishnetwork blows away any fuzzy cable :D The domination of consumer reports and JdPower and assoiciates studys of customer satisfaction with satellite also proves this.

My Time Warner cable blows away my brother-in-law's Direct TV, no contest. This is comparing the same episode of Planet Earth in HD aired at the same moment, both recorded to HD DVR. His signal was so pixelated as to be unwatchable at normal viewing distance.

I realize this is just one anecdotal account, but it does show Zues's post above to be incorrect. Probably it depends on the area which is better.

Could depend on your Hd receivers Quality. Whether hooked up to component or hdmi. Hughes receivers for directv are really good, if you look on ebay dishnetwork Hd receivers also are fetching a pretty penny. I've heard Comcast receivers are really buggy, audio cutting out etc. I hear they are just junk. I dont have nothing bad to say about Time Warner, just that the long cable runs and sharing is so 80's 90's technology to me.

Could depend on your Hd receivers Quality. Whether hooked up to component or hdmi. Hughes receivers for directv are really good, if you look on ebay dishnetwork Hd receivers also are fetching a pretty penny. I've heard Comcast receivers are really buggy, audio cutting out etc. I hear they are just junk. I dont have nothing bad to say about Time Warner, just that the long cable runs and sharing is so 80's 90's technology to me.


Sorry, but your argument about these "long cable runs" is beyond absurd. Much like you have a dish on your roof for satellite (and I happen to have the most recent 5lnb dish available through DirecTV), you (or at least I have) a main cable power point just outside of your house. All cable runs are either run from the dish into your home or run from the main cable power point, just outside your home (and no, I am not talking about power lines, because there are no power lines where I live). The only difference for me (and again, I have both DirecTV and cable) is that my DirecTV cable runs are running from the roof down, and my cable tv runs are running from the ground up. Considering I have access to DirecTV and cable in every room, the "long cable runs" you speak of are exactly the same for DirecTV and TW cable! Remember, RG6 cable actually does have to be run from the dish into the rooms you want service in...It doesn't just magically get there!

I can also tell you that many of the rooms I have cable in are rooms that have wall-mounted LCD's with no cable card. Even though there is no settop box or cable card, my signal is SUPERB, and that's only analog cable! If you have a larger home, you need to invest in some Electroline cable amps. I can assure you that if you do, your picture will look no different on a 2 foot cable run or a 200 foot cable run! There simply isn't degradation, if you're using the appropriate equipment.

As far as DirecTV's signal not deteriorating, we'll agree to disagree on that point. They must be sending a much better signal to your house, than they are to mine. As I stated previously, I have been a DirecTV customer for over 10 years(and still am), and their signal has deteriorated EVERY single year I've had their service. I used to be the biggest anti-cable guy on the planet. In fact, when cable started pounding their chest (metaphorically speaking) about how they had "digital cable", I just sort of laughed, as satellite has always offered a digital signal. Having said that, I have pretty good eyesight, and to me the battle is no longer even close! Most cable companies offer a far superior picture, as they aren't compressing their signals to the degree that DirecTV is (I can't speak for Dish, as I've never had their service)! Also, most cable companies have FAR more HD offerings than the same few channels DirecTV has been offering for years! I do hope DirecTV wakes up and gets their act together, as I'd rather not pay for two services. I'm simply forced to keep DirecTV for their sports packages, so I'm hopeful EVERY day that they launch the new satellites they've been promising to launch for the past several years!


John from Boston

Even though there is no settop box or cable card, my signal is SUPERB, and that's only analog cable!


Isn't an analog cable signal vastly preferred to digital? I always notice compression artifacts and such on my NYC Time Warner Digital Cable. I'd dump digital for analog in a heartbeat if it was an option.

Since I watch 95% OTA, I can get excellent PQ and still save money with D* :D

I've looked and havent seen nothing that cable pq is better than satellite. I never seen one professional review that says cable PQ is better. I have not seen no reduction in pq with direcTv. I've compared OTA HD with directv channel playing the same thing and there is no difference. No cable company will ever TOUT that cable PQ is better like satellite does. The long runs of cable and all the sharing etc means signal reception will never be as good. Neither will be the Audio. DirecTv or dishnetwork blows away any fuzzy cable :D The domination of consumer reports and JdPower and assoiciates studys of customer satisfaction with satellite also proves this.

Go to the HD programing forum and look up HD-lite. Fuzzy cable on analog, maybe. But the HD quality isn't even close. I did a side by side when I moved in to my new house (after being a DTV customer for 7 years in a row) and I was blown away with what I was missing. Their satelites are full and untill they launch some more there is just not enough bandwith to support full HD. For every new HD channel they add they are compressing the signal more and more that is why they haven't been adding much more lately and cable adds 1-3 channels every 3 months or so (at least in here in ATL). If you do a side by side comparison you will see what I mean (and I don't mean in Best Buy).

Quit watching the Vizio. In a couple of days your eyes will adjust to the Panny and you'll love it.

You might try the firmware update for the 60 to deal with:

"Poor picture details
Faces appear as "Clay Faces"
Excessive brightness with no details in the black level"

http://www.pasctraining.panasonic.com/SpecialApplications/ProductFirmwareDownloads/downloads1.asp


Wow! What a great find. Didn't know this existed - when I was helping my sister set up her TH-42PX60U, I was surprised to be having the complaints this firmware claims to address. Wonderful to see a possible fix!

I find that alot of low end panel owners that jump to pannys or pioneers always question the P.Q., and in particular the vividness of the higher quality panels. The problem is that low ends panels like Vizio and others are so unrealistic with oversaturated colors and over blown contrast levels that almost everything shown on them looks like Tim Burton threw up. It's difficult to go from having everything looking like a Fruit Loop box to seeing true representations of what things should look like on screen. Most mistake accuracy for the lack of pop. :rolleyes:


This might be true in some cases but seeing how I also own 2 pioneer 42" plasmas in other rooms in my house I dont think it holds true in my case.

I just dont think the tv is all that great. I will enjoy it anyway because
I have no other option in tis price range.

My friend next door has the Pioneer 5070 I have the Panny TH-50PX600U and We both think they are very comparable to each other only problem with either is when we have signal problems.They both pop like you are there live....

Wow! What a great find. Didn't know this existed - when I was helping my sister set up her TH-42PX60U, I was surprised to be having the complaints this firmware claims to address. Wonderful to see a possible fix!

Don't hold your expectation high... Be there done that. It actually make the whole picture fuzzier or softer.

Wow! What a great find. Didn't know this existed - when I was helping my sister set up her TH-42PX60U, I was surprised to be having the complaints this firmware claims to address. Wonderful to see a possible fix!

It make the picture even softer to the point of fuzzy. Helped clayface but no way near eliminating it. Be there done that.

It make the picture even softer to the point of fuzzy. Helped clayface but no way near eliminating it. Be there done that.

With all the good comments on the Vizio 50in maybe I made a mistake when I purchased the Panny instead of the Vizio it just looked terrible every where I looked at it I admit I did not try it at home.
Maybe I can put the Panny in my bedroom and buy the Vizio for the family room.Would the 60in be better.

Its just seems I have to put the picture setting at least to +18 before the picture has any "life" to it what so ever. Put it to 0 and its pitch blackIf that's where it looks best to you, put it there and don't let anyone tell you different. Mine's at +24 where it been virtually since day-one. Click on the link below to see my settings (under the heading "My Standard Settings"), but don't go by them either as I own an older model (8th gen) and it's set to my preferences. Still, you might be able to use them as a jumping-off point. Two additional settings you can't see from the menu are Black Level = "Light" and Color Temp = "Normal".
Good Luck.

I find that alot of low end panel owners that jump to pannys or pioneers always question the P.Q., and in particular the vividness of the higher quality panels. The problem is that low ends panels like Vizio and others are so unrealistic with oversaturated colors and over blown contrast levels that almost everything shown on them looks like Tim Burton threw up. It's difficult to go from having everything looking like a Fruit Loop box to seeing true representations of what things should look like on screen. Most mistake accuracy for the lack of pop. :rolleyes:
This hits the nail right on the head. Nothing else needs to be said.

If the OP prefers the Vizio's cartoony colors, he should keep the Vizio and leave the Panasonic to someone who appreciates a real television instead of a toy.

Quit watching the Vizio. In a couple of days your eyes will adjust to the Panny and you'll love it.

You are funny :D :D

I find that alot of low end panel owners that jump to pannys or pioneers always question the P.Q., and in particular the vividness of the higher quality panels. The problem is that low ends panels like Vizio and others are so unrealistic with oversaturated colors and over blown contrast levels that almost everything shown on them looks like Tim Burton threw up. It's difficult to go from having everything looking like a Fruit Loop box to seeing true representations of what things should look like on screen. Most mistake accuracy for the lack of pop. :rolleyes:

You would blame any panny 60U PQ issues with vivid mode or poor calibration. Why don't you do the same to Vizio?

Anyway, what do or did you own?

I find that alot of low end panel owners that jump to pannys or pioneers always question the P.Q., and in particular the vividness of the higher quality panels. The problem is that low ends panels like Vizio and others are so unrealistic with oversaturated colors and over blown contrast levels that almost everything shown on them looks like Tim Burton threw up. It's difficult to go from having everything looking like a Fruit Loop box to seeing true representations of what things should look like on screen. Most mistake accuracy for the lack of pop. :rolleyes:

Thats why the Vizio has never had the problem with clay face????

You have no clue what your talking about.......

If any thing most people on this board say they bought the panny because they pop more. Vizio is dull blah blah blah. 3rd tier blah blah blah.

Why can't everyone see the guy likes the pic of the Vizio better. The way Panasonic is talked up on this board is unreal. Anyone who thinks otherwise has no clue. They don't have the settings right. Maybe its the fact that the Vizio has a better de-interlacer, and it can do 3:2 pulldown. Can't be Vizio is 3rd tier. :rolleyes:

Thats why the Vizio has never had the problem with clay face????

You have no clue what your talking about.......

If any thing most people on this board say they bought the panny because they pop more. Vizio is dull blah blah blah. 3rd tier blah blah blah.

Why can't everyone see the guy likes the pic of the Vizio better. The way Panasonic is talked up on this board is unreal. Anyone who thinks otherwise has no clue. They don't have the settings right. Maybe its the fact that the Vizio has a better de-interlacer, and it can do 3:2 pulldown. Can't be Vizio is 3rd tier. :rolleyes:


Sorry but it's you that doesn't have a clue as to what your talking about. If you want to convince yourself that your Vizio is in the same league as top models like Panny and Pioneer have at it, I could care less. I would much rather deal with reality, I'm not going to go to a restaurant and order a hamburger, then try and convince everyone that my burger was as good or better than a steak. The Vizio has the most unrealistic color reproduction of almost any panel I've seen. What's pathetic on this board isn't the way panny is talked up, Panny is talked up because the vast number of people that have decided to buy them have been overwhelmingly happy with the product. What's pathetic here is that anyone could look at a properly calibrated Vizio and panny, panels side by side and come away believing the Vizio is in any way superior. Bottom line buy what you like, but don't try and convince me your burger is better than my steak. :rolleyes:

Sorry but it's you that doesn't have a clue as to what your talking about. If you want to convince yourself that your Vizio is in the same league as top models like Panny and Pioneer have at it, I could care less. I would much rather deal with reality, I'm not going to go to a restaurant and order a hamburger, then try and convince everyone that my burger was as good or better than a steak. The Vizio has the most unrealistic color reproduction of almost any panel I've seen. What's pathetic on this board isn't the way panny is talked up, Panny is talked up because the vast number of people that have decided to buy them have been overwhelmingly happy with the product. What's pathetic here is that anyone could look at a properly calibrated Vizio and panny, panels side by side and come away believing the Vizio is in any way superior. Bottom line buy what you like, but don't try and convince me your burger is better than my steak. :rolleyes:

Never once did i say the Vizio is better than the Panny. I said his eyes told him it was better. His eyes not yours.....

Back to your regular scheduled programing..
All hail Panasonic the great!

Never once did i say the Vizio is better than the Panny. I said his eyes told him it was better. His eyes not yours.....

Back to your regular scheduled programing..
All hail Panasonic the great!

The sooner you learn that the better off you will be... :cool:

fter reading many glowing reviews about the pannny plasma's I decided to pull the trigger and "upgrade" from my Vizo 50hdtv10 to a panny 58px60u model plasma.

I gotta say that everything looks dark and dull looking on the panny comapared to the vizio. The picture just doesn't "pop" like the vizio did. I am watching directv hdtv and it just is not giving me that wow factor that I was looking for.

Anyone else think that the panny just isin't that impressive?
Follow your own eyes and what says WOW to you. We obviously don't all see things the same way and I had the same results and letdown when I bought a 500U to replace an SXRD - viewing the identical HD Content in the sweet spot I experienced no wow factor whatsoever even in ideal night time viewing and daytime washout made it worthless.

This is not a religion or a body of politic - why can't anyone perceive that it doesn't deliver what was expected to some of us without attacking the poster?

I fully agree with those that love and perceive their Panny as kick ass for you and your eyes you are correct but don't shove it down the throats of us that simply fail to see or agree with your perception. To you all you've crowned it a Top Tier and yes it's a value for size but I and others don't agree - and so what's wrong with that?

The guy has a right to disagree without being lynched or insult him - or are we sheep when it comes to the Panasonic? People buy panels and get let down all the time - it's not personal against you - he's voicing that he's disappointed in the WOW factor MIA to his eyes not ours. If we all saw the same thing we'd only need one panel and no choices to pick from. For some of us we simply perceive the WoW effect differently and it was never there for me viewing the identical HD content. ;)

Follow your own eyes and what says WOW to you. We obviously don't all see things the same way and I had the same results and letdown when I bought a 500U to replace an SXRD - viewing the identical HD Content in the sweet spot I experienced no wow factor whatsoever even in ideal night time viewing and daytime washout made it worthless.

This is not a religion or a body of politic - why can't anyone perceive that it doesn't deliver what was expected to some of us without attacking the poster?

I fully agree with those that love and perceive their Panny as kick ass for you and your eyes you are correct but don't shove it down the throats of us that simply fail to see or agree with your perception. To you all you've crowned it a Top Tier and yes it's a value for size but I and others don't agree - and so what's wrong with that?

The guy has a right to disagree without being lynched or insult him - or are we sheep when it comes to the Panasonic?

Baaa Baaa Baa Baaaaa.


People buy panels and get let down all the time - it's not personal against you - he's voicing that he's disappointed in the WOW factor MIA to his eyes not ours. If we all saw the same thing we'd only need one panel and no choices to pick from. For some of us we simply perceive the WoW effect differently and it was never there for me viewing the identical HD content. ;)

Baaa Baaaaaaa!

Follow your own eyes and what says WOW to you. We obviously don't all see things the same way and I had the same results and letdown when I bought a 500U to replace an SXRD - viewing the identical HD Content in the sweet spot I experienced no wow factor whatsoever even in ideal night time viewing and daytime washout made it worthless.

This is not a religion or a body of politic - why can't anyone perceive that it doesn't deliver what was expected to some of us without attacking the poster?

I fully agree with those that love and perceive their Panny as kick ass for you and your eyes you are correct but don't shove it down the throats of us that simply fail to see or agree with your perception. To you all you've crowned it a Top Tier and yes it's a value for size but I and others don't agree - and so what's wrong with that?

The guy has a right to disagree without being lynched or insult him - or are we sheep when it comes to the Panasonic? People buy panels and get let down all the time - it's not personal against you - he's voicing that he's disappointed in the WOW factor MIA to his eyes not ours. If we all saw the same thing we'd only need one panel and no choices to pick from. For some of us we simply perceive the WoW effect differently and it was never there for me viewing the identical HD content. ;)

Well said Westa! Buy what looks best to you, no one can make that decision for you. But I do love my panasonic and have gotten that wow factor. But I do have to agree that the Vizio looks very unrealistic but if that's the kind of PQ someone likes. Well you can't do anything about it. So to the original poster, if you're not happy with the panasonic then stick with the vizio.

Well said Westa! Buy what looks best to you, no one can make that decision for you. But I do love my panasonic and have gotten that wow factor. But I do have to agree that the Vizio looks very unrealistic but if that's the kind of PQ someone likes. Well you can't do anything about it. So to the original poster, if you're not happy with the panasonic then stick with the vizio.

Very well said :)

There is a difference between somebody buying something they think is OK and then accepts it as it is.
It's when these 'objective' buyers start spouting BS about how their Vizio just stomped over Pioneer and Panasonics best models.....you bet it's going to get called.
Spare us all the 'PC' stuff as everything is not created equal. ;)

If plasmas were dvd players nobody would own oppo, that are in to name brands 'top tier', even though oppo blows away many more players costing much more. To me panny is just panny, nothing special, side by side next to a sony will show panny is not all that. Not plasmas but other technologies. Vizio has more in common with sony than panny imo. My thoughts why the vizio has more pop is the whites are really punchy, contrast ratio is also argueably better.

There is a difference between somebody buying something they think is OK and then accepts it as it is.
It's when these 'objective' buyers start spouting BS about how their Vizio just stomped over Pioneer and Panasonics best models.....you bet it's going to get called.
Spare us all the 'PC' stuff as everything is not created equal. ;)


I couldn't agree more with your comments, I'm planning on buying a Vizio specifically for the shack/cabin where my friends and I get together to watch Sunday football. Vizio makes a fine low end plasma, that will allow us to watch a decent HD feed without having to spend a couple of thousand bucks. That said I would never have a Vizio in my home because it simply does not stack up against the P.Q. quality of Pannys, Pioneers, or many other top panels. Vizio fan boys can fool themselves all they like, if it makes them feel better say Vizio is = to or better than the top panels on the market then they can feel free. Reality is with the consumer that does the research before they buy, not with the ones that buy from the bargain bin and then try and convince everyone else they really bought top shelf. :rolleyes:

I couldn't agree more with your comments, I'm planning on buying a Vizio specifically for the shack/cabin where my friends and I get together to watch Sunday football. Vizio makes a fine low end plasma, that will allow us to watch a decent HD feed without having to spend a couple of thousand bucks. That said I would never have a Vizio in my home because it simply does not stack up against the P.Q. quality of Pannys, Pioneers, or many other top panels. Vizio fan boys can fool themselves all they like, if it makes them feel better say Vizio is = to or better than the top panels on the market then they can feel free. Reality is with the consumer that does the research before they buy, not with the ones that buy from the bargain bin and then try and convince everyone else they really bought top shelf. :rolleyes:

Well stated :D

Vizio has more in common with sony than panny imo.

And that says it all to me. To me Sony stuff is over priced and their quality control has gone down hill lately.

There is a difference between somebody buying something they think is OK and then accepts it as it is.
It's when these 'objective' buyers start spouting BS about how their Vizio just stomped over Pioneer and Panasonics best models.....you bet it's going to get called.
Spare us all the 'PC' stuff as everything is not created equal. ;)


Where has anyone said antything about it "stomping" all over the panny?
Some of you guys make me laugh. Just because you own one of the discussed panny's doesn't make it the best tv ever.

In fact I think the pioneer S**ts all over it 7 days a week.

I have 2 pionner 433cmx's that I bought 3+ years ago and BOTH of them look better then the Panny.

When you look at a person in real life do they look like they smeared coverup all over they're face? I know the people in my world dont, but maybe in panasonic fanboy land they do.

Where has anyone said antything about it "stomping" all over the panny?
Some of you guys make me laugh. Just because you own one of the discussed panny's doesn't make it the best tv ever.

In fact I think the pioneer S**ts all over it 7 days a week.

I have 2 pionner 433cmx's that I bought 3+ years ago and BOTH of them look better then the Panny.

When you look at a person in real life do they look like they smeared coverup all over they're face? I know the people in my world dont, but maybe in panasonic fanboy land they do.

Please, it's all over this board with the Vizio and Samsung zealots. :rolleyes:
Wake up man.....and then you can stop dreaming about your Pio 433's even coming close to my 2 yr old 500u. ;)

uh...give it a rest. these threads remind of a bunch of 10yr olds arguing over who has the better bike.

i've yet to see one fanboy convince another of their position in all the time i've spent here. a Quixotic battle, to say the least.

uh...give it a rest. these threads remind of a bunch of 10yr olds arguing over who has the better bike.

i've yet to see one fanboy convince another of their position in all the time i've spent here. a Quixotic battle, to say the least.

Your post reminds me of the kid who had an even crappier bike. :p

Lets agree to disagree(even though we know I'm right)

Please, it's all over this board with the Vizio and Samsung zealots. :rolleyes:
Wake up man.....and then you can stop dreaming about your Pio 433's even coming close to my 2 yr old 500u. ;)

Then theres the panasonic honk's like yourself who think they own the best tv that anyone ever laid eyes on. Yeah right..... Look ,enjoy your tv. Maybe you got a better model then me I dont know. This wasn't meant to be a Vizio vs panasonic war and I actually said I think the picture is decent on the panny.

Bottom line is I dont like it. I will be dumping it and buying the pioneer 6070.

Hey, enjoy yours because obviously you dont see any of the problems with it that a number of others do.

Then theres the panasonic honk's like yourself who think they own the best tv that anyone ever laid eyes on. Yeah right..... Look ,enjoy your tv. Maybe you got a better model then me I dont know. This wasn't meant to be a Vizio vs panasonic war and I actually said I think the picture is decent on the panny.

Bottom line is I dont like it. I will be dumping it and buying the pioneer 6070.

Hey, enjoy yours because obviously you dont see any of the problems with it that a number of others do.

Enjoy your Pioneer amazing tv but try not to call people names it only show your level of maturity.
I personally love the Pioneer and the Panasonic both are great plasmas only times I have problems is when Im getting a bad signal from Dishnetwork and how do I know this my neighbors one has a Pioneer the other Toshiba and they have the same problems at the same time. :D

Your post reminds me of the kid who had an even crappier bike. :p

that's funny, b/c i own a panasonic plasma like you.

that's funny, b/c i own a panasonic plasma like you.

Pic please. ;)

Edit: Ah...nevermind. I had it right the first time. A 42" 60u has no chance. :D

Can I borrow your bike?

Enjoy your Pioneer amazing tv but try not to call people names it only show your level of maturity.

I agree that this fanboy war is stupid, but who called who a name? How is jwheels calling Elemental1 a "panasonic honk" any different than Elemental1 calling others "samsung and vizio zealots"? Neither one is really "name calling". Did "honk" or "zealot" become a bad word when I wasn't looking?

I think some people need to relax and stick to informative and friendly discussion. Enjoy what looks good to you...

Bottom line is I dont like it. I will be dumping it and buying the pioneer 6070.

Hey, enjoy yours because obviously you dont see any of the problems with it that a number of others do.

The 6070 is a fine display, no question. :)
Well....as for the 'problems'....there are many people who go with the heard and do what people tell them and then there are those who actually checked it out themselves of which I am the latter.
It's a sweet panel and there is a reason it was Plasma Of The Year! :D

Did "honk" or "zealot" become a bad word when I wasn't looking?


Is 'Honk' even a word? :p
Ebonics? :D

Is 'Honk' even a word? :p
Ebonics? :D

Don't think so but just saying keep it nice I was told to go f myself yesterday. :D

Don't think so but just saying keep it nice I was told to go f myself yesterday. :D

It's called 'PANenvy' :D .

It's called 'PANenvy' :D .

I know I love my Panny watching it now as the storms are coming through Plano Tx man do those colors pop out at you. :D

Pic please. ;)

Edit: Ah...nevermind. I had it right the first time. A 42" 60u has no chance. :D
so now even a different model panasonic isn't good enough if it isn't the one you own? gimme a break.

so now even a different model panasonic isn't good enough if it isn't the one you own? gimme a break.

So which or what do you enjoy watching. :D

so now even a different model panasonic isn't good enough if it isn't the one you own? gimme a break.

Dude, real plasma starts at 50". :D
Now go along and play with the LCD kiddies.

Dude, real plasma starts at 50". :D
Now go along and play with the LCD kiddies.
now you have convinced me that you may actually be 10 years old, or perhaps just an immature adult who is so insecure that he feels the need to defend his purchase with endless childish posts on an internet message board. pathetic.

i'm punching out.

so now even a different model panasonic isn't good enough if it isn't the one you own? gimme a break.
G-star I believe elemental was joking around notice the big teeth showing smily after his comment.

Only in plasma land is panny good, average imho. Any other area of video or electronics, like projectors, they are considered like vizios, to snobs :)

Panny rep on here is that, compared to pioneer back in the day, it did have superior black levels and still holds a slight edge over pio. Color accuracy, colors, clayface, lobster red face, floating blacks, dim whites, they seem to get flack for it. All plasmas really cant produce a solid white, like lcd can.