First off, I should let you know that I am a noob and this is my first post. After spending a ridiculous amount of time on this forum trying to absorb incredible amounts of information, I have decided to ask you, the experts, for some help. I have narrowed my search to two projectors (...I think) which are the Mits. HC3000 and the IN76. Obviously, I prefer the picture of DLP and don't seem to have any issues with RBE.

I have seen the IN76 in person and was impressed but I haven't been able to see the HC3000. I have a dedicated theater room with full light control and am shooting for a 106" to 110" image. Assuming I can make the offset of the Mits. work, I am interested in knowing how the two compare in PQ and features. I'd like to compare the two on their merits, not price.

Any help you can offer is very much appreciated.

I'm using my HC3000 to project a 112" image in a dedicated light controlled space, and I couldn't be happier. The HC3000 will have a better out of the box picture, but both units will be comparable after calibration. I personally prefer the HC3000 over the IN76. Price wise, the HC3000U can be found from reputable dealers/retailers for cheaper than the IN76, which makes it not only the better projector of the two (my opinion), but also the price/performance leader.

The IN76 is much closer out of the box. The 3000 is closer to 7500K with a much larger DE error and the 3000's gamma is not accurate either out of the box. Granted it isn't as bad as some others I measured but not as close as an IN76. Have you ever calibrated these with any type of instrument? There are plus and minus to each PJ and both are good PJs. And they are pretty close in price (street) as well as performance once calibrated.

Determine which PJs fit your set up best and then try to view them. The Mits has the biggest offset, the IN76 a smaller offset and something like a sharp 3000/ 3100 very little offset.

Hope this helps.

Bob

Thanks for the replies. No, I've never calibrated either although I have read that the IN76 is closer to 6500 out of the box. I have only been able to see screenshots of the HC3000 on projectorreviews and it looks pretty good. The image on the Mits seems like it might be a little bit "punchier" out of the box. It's hard to tell from a couple of stills though. What about sharpness and black levels? Any significant difference in features from those who have used them?

The HC3000 will have a better out of the box picture...

errrr

don't think so ;)

IN76 comes with only a 1 year warranty, while the Mits offers 2. This is an indication that Mits has more confidence in their product than InFocus has in theirs.

If you want to buy from a solid secure company then go with the Mits. InFocus is a troubled company that is losing millions of dollars a year. Although they have a decent cash position from their heyday it won't take long for that to evaporate the way they are hemorraging cash now. Their best engineers from their ScreenPlay division left the company and started their own company. (Planar) They recently put themselves up for sale but there were no takers.

I guess I should have known it's never as simple as which one looks a little better. Thanks for the background info.

errrr

don't think so ;)

I admit, I quit following who had the better picture when I pulled the trigger. I guess that has changed, but at the time, the consensus was the that the 3000 had the better picture.

Either way, the 2 year warranty is nice. I had some bumps going through Mitsubishi to get my RMA, but it's off to them now and I should have it back soon.

leckian at least get your facts straight when you try to troll. Planar was started in 1983 - Infocus was started in 1986 - it would be impossible for ex-Infocus to found Planar (in fact it is the other way around). For those that follow local company history - there has always been cross breeding of management and engineers between these to companies going back and forth. What did happen is Planar is expanding into more speciality display divisions just recently - one of which is Home Theater - and that is primarily staffed with ex-Infocus - with PJs having similar design legacies of bright when calibrated and good values. If the OP is interested in working with local custom installers/retailers - Planar PJ can be found in that market - though they are new and signing up dealers so you may not be able to find it.

Many commodity products have cut warranties - it has nothing to do with confidence in product - it has to do with lowering MSRP. Infocus has additional pricing on factory warranty extension - so the product pricing with 2yr warranty can be indeed be compared. The Infocus has a higher quality lens and has always been higher priced than the Mitsubishi - the Mitsu HC3000 is getting difficult to find as it is in closeout (so likely better deal if you can get one) - yet the USA has decided not to sell it replacement HC3100 which has the upgraded DC3 and is D65 optomized design like the IN76.

To the OP that asked about PQ comparisons - as BobL indicated the MitsuHC3000 needs ISF calibration which is not necessary on the IN76. Once calibrated to D65 the MitsuHC3000 has the advantage in nearly perfect HD colors - while the IN76 is much brighter preferring SMPTE-C colors with a brighter but less saturated green. Some ISF calibrators say even HD colors should be desaturated to SMPTE-C (DVD) colors because that is still how HD is mastered - so this really comes down to personal (or calibrator) preference - neither PJ has the ability to adjust the color gamut.

So picture quality diffs will be mainly seen in highly saturated HD sources - with the brightness difference meaning you should install a high gain screen for the Mitsu and a dark grey screen for the Infocus - or can run a much larger screen with the Infocus given the same gain. Just get the warranty extension with Infocus, or the ISF with Mitsu - you would be happy with either one once properly installed.

...you should install .... a dark grey screen for the Infocus - or can run a much larger screen with the Infocus given the same gain.

Hey krasmuzik,
With a IN76 projector throwing an image up to 13 feet wide what gain would you recommend and would you go with dark gray, silver, or a white screen?
Thanks-

krasmuzik - thanks for clearing up the question of InFocus's dirty laundry. I'm guessing that when you said the IN76 has a better quality lens that means it throws a sharper picture???

Does anybody know how the two compare in the way of black levels and shadow detail? Thanks again for all the info guys.

The dimmer install will have better black levels, the brighter will have better shadow detail - but they both calibrated out to the same contrast and gamma - so properly installed you should not see a difference.

Better lens means less chromatic abberation - which is the RGB smear of white lines at the edge of screen - as well as sharper image- which means you can see the screen door betwen pixels better.

leckian at least get your facts straight when you try to troll. Planar was started in 1983 - Infocus was started in 1986 - it would be impossible for ex-Infocus to found Planar (in fact it is the other way around). For those that follow local company history - there has always been cross breeding of management and engineers between these to companies going back and forth. What did happen is Planar is expanding into more speciality display divisions just recently - one of which is Home Theater - and that is primarily staffed with ex-Infocus - with PJs having similar design legacies of bright when calibrated and good values. If the OP is interested in working with local custom installers/retailers - Planar PJ can be found in that market - though they are new and signing up dealers so you may not be able to find it.

Many commodity products have cut warranties - it has nothing to do with confidence in product - it has to do with lowering MSRP. Infocus has additional pricing on factory warranty extension - so the product pricing with 2yr warranty can be indeed be compared. The Infocus has a higher quality lens and has always been higher priced than the Mitsubishi - the Mitsu HC3000 is getting difficult to find as it is in closeout (so likely better deal if you can get one) - yet the USA has decided not to sell it replacement HC3100 which has the upgraded DC3 and is D65 optomized design like the IN76.

To the OP that asked about PQ comparisons - as BobL indicated the MitsuHC3000 needs ISF calibration which is not necessary on the IN76. Once calibrated to D65 the MitsuHC3000 has the advantage in nearly perfect HD colors - while the IN76 is much brighter preferring SMPTE-C colors with a brighter but less saturated green. Some ISF calibrators say even HD colors should be desaturated to SMPTE-C (DVD) colors because that is still how HD is mastered - so this really comes down to personal (or calibrator) preference - neither PJ has the ability to adjust the color gamut.

So picture quality diffs will be mainly seen in highly saturated HD sources - with the brightness difference meaning you should install a high gain screen for the Mitsu and a dark grey screen for the Infocus - or can run a much larger screen with the Infocus given the same gain. Just get the warranty extension with Infocus, or the ISF with Mitsu - you would be happy with either one once properly installed.

The essence of what I said is true--InFocus is a troubled company, losing millions a year and their best projector engineers are now designing for Planar. Their product sells for just as much if not more than the Mits with 1/2 of the warranty so it just a sign of a desparate company looking for ways to stop the bleeding. They punish customers needing warranty service who make a mistake and buy from an unauthorized source even though they made the product. They have had QC problems and often need to service customer's projectors multiple times before they get it right or give up and try to get the customer to pay money for an "upgrade". If you ask dealers who have had years of experience with InFocus many will tell you they are afraid to sell their products. Hopefully they will turn things around but I think it is very difficult for projector only companies to survive given what has happened to projector pricing.

The essence of what I said is true--InFocus is a troubled company, losing millions a year and their best projector engineers are now designing for Planar. Their product sells for just as much if not more than the Mits with 1/2 of the warranty so it just a sign of a desparate company looking for ways to stop the bleeding. They punish customers needing warranty service who make a mistake and buy from an unauthorized source even though they made the product. They have had QC problems and often need to service customer's projectors multiple times before they get it right or give up and try to get the customer to pay money for an "upgrade". If you ask dealers who have had years of experience with InFocus many will tell you they are afraid to sell their products. Hopefully they will turn things around but I think it is very difficult for projector only companies to survive given what has happened to projector pricing.

lol. :rolleyes:

lol. :rolleyes:

LOL?---You can laugh at this---

http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/c/5y/i/infs

InFocus posted a net loss of $79.8 million in 2005 and a net loss of $61.9 million in 2006.

ROFL!!!!!

ROFL!!!!!

Quite a vocabulary you have--love to see a video of you rolling on floor

The essence of what I said is true--InFocus is a troubled company, losing millions a year and their best projector engineers are now designing for Planar.

true

Their product sells for just as much if not more than the Mits with 1/2 of the warranty so it just a sign of a desparate company looking for ways to stop the bleeding.

it sells for more money because it's a better projector out of the box. period.

They punish customers needing warranty service who make a mistake and buy from an unauthorized source even though they made the product.

this is a completely ridiculous and unfounded satement. punish? lol. this isn't grade school. there are hundreds of CE mfg's who require proof of sale from authorized resellers in order to obtain warranty service. pioneer for example.

They have had QC problems and often need to service customer's projectors multiple times before they get it right or give up and try to get the customer to pay money for an "upgrade".

name one PJ mfg who doesn't have QC problems or people who've had nightmare customer service issues? search around and you'll find plenty of examples. Sanyo, Sony, Optoma, Mits.

If you ask dealers who have had years of experience with InFocus many will tell you they are afraid to sell their products.

name one. i'd love to hear about all about it. sure they just didn't lose their authorization for shady practices and are upset about it? i know plenty of IF resellers, both business and HT. despite their financial situation they continue to make one of the best projectors, both for business and HT, for the money.

good day sir

true



it sells for more money because it's a better projector out of the box. period.



this is a completely ridiculous and unfounded satement. punish? lol. this isn't grade school. there are hundreds of CE mfg's who require proof of sale from authorized resellers in order to obtain warranty service. pioneer for example.



name one PJ mfg who doesn't have QC problems or people who've had nightmare customer service issues? search around and you'll find plenty of examples. Sanyo, Sony, Optoma, Mits.



name one. i'd love to hear about all about it. sure they just didn't lose their authorization for shady practices and are upset about it? i know plenty of IF resellers, both business and HT. despite their financial situation they continue to make one of the best projectors, both for business and HT, for the money.

good day sir

They will deny service to customers who don't buy from an authorized reseller. It may be common knowledge on this site to be careful from whom you buy, but in the general public many well-intentioned people have purchased InFocus projectors from some website and later were denied service. Many of the other projector companies will service their projectors even if the customer does not have a bill of sale based on the date of manufacture that the serial number indicates. They do so because they feel they have a moral responsibility to service the products they manufacture--InFocus feels no such reponsibility. For the short term InFocus is not going out of business, but they will have to do a major turnaround to stay in business for the long term. They have been trying but so far they are not showing significant progress. Those are serious losses they are sustaining and given their cash position they probably could continue another 3 or 4 years. To date they have had layoffs, outsourced their CS to India, shortened and made their warranties more conditional and they are still struggling. As a customer I would seek out companies that were not dealing with such serious core issues.

They will deny service to customers who don't buy from an authorized reseller. It may be common knowledge on this site to be careful from whom you buy, but in the general public many well-intentioned people have purchased InFocus projectors from some website and later were denied service. Many of the other projector companies will service their projectors even if the customer does not have a bill of sale based on the date of manufacture that the serial number indicates. They do so because they feel they have a moral responsibility to service the products they manufacture

moral responsibilty? LOL. I don't think so. IF has every right to police and protect their sales channel. this is nothing new and is common practice for many mfgs.

As a customer I would seek out companies that were not dealing with such serious core issues.

and you have every right to do so as a consumer. and as a consumer it is your resonsibility to understand a manufacturer's warranty policy and guidlines. buyer beware. buying products is a triangle. with each point representing 1. cheap, 2. fast and 3. quality. you can't have all three without sacrificing something. everybody is so concerned with price yet they expect more and more for less and less.

i'm not here to debate the mistakes infocus has made in their past or their future success. i'm debating the emotional points that you claim should justify not buying infocus. despite their financial situation, their products are awesome for the money.

leckian

I think there is a recent thread on a Panny purchased from Amazon that is denied warrented service because they were not an authorized dealer....you surely are selective in your trolling. Also recent threads that JVC is not up for sale - it has already been bought and sold and only a matter of time before the buyers recoup their investment by selling off pieces.

To the OP - you have some very good and honest comaprison technical information from BobL and I who are very familiar with these PJs as we are calibrators and installers not looking to sell you a PJ. Ignore the fleabay PJ seller troll - he is not the consumer he poses to be.

moral responsibilty? LOL. I don't think so. IF has every right to police and protect their sales channel. this is nothing new and is common practice for many mfgs.


There are other ways for companies to police their channels rather than to refuse service to customers who are not as sophisticated as you. If the product was destined for the US market and it failed within the warranty period then they have a responsibility to repair it period. And yes there is such a thing as corporate ethics and responsibility. They can easily punish the appropriate people who cause product to be sold outside channel by tracking the route of the projector by serial number. But they won't because in just about all cases the offenders are legitimate dealers who buy more than they need in order to get a discount and then they move product sideways to unauthorized resellers. They won't punish the real offenders because they do not want to lose the big orders--they punish the unsuspecting customers.

leckian

I think there is a recent thread on a Panny purchased from Amazon that is denied warrented service because they were not an authorized dealer....you surely are selective in your trolling. Also recent threads that JVC is not up for sale - it has already been bought and sold and only a matter of time before the buyers recoup their investment by selling off pieces.

To the OP - you have some very good and honest comaprison technical information from BobL and I who are very familiar with these PJs as we are calibrators and installers not looking to sell you a PJ. Ignore the fleabay PJ seller troll - he is not the consumer he poses to be.

A review of your posts will show any reader that you long been a strong advocate for InFocus. No one is calling your motives into question here and I have a right to my principled opinion of InFocus as well. If you want to address the actual issues that is fine.

And if this was a thread about Infocus issues - you could post all you want with your opinion.

The OP asked for a technical comparison of two PJ he was interested in - not a biz comparison of two companies he wants to buy stock in.

Anyone that reads my posts on any projector knows that it is based on competent and fair technical evaluation - and not based on what I can or can not or do not sell. In fact I never have sold Mitsubushi - but if you read what I write I did say it has better HD colors and I have recommended others purchase it when it was more suitable for their setup (including my very own prior Infocus customers). Not sure how that is considered as advocating Infocus.

The OP could care less about your sour grapes that you cannot fleabay Infocus in an authorized manner that you can get away with on other brands. But a strong authorized dealer policy is hardly unique to Infocus - now are you going to join up on the Panny on Amazon thread with the same criticism? Or the Mitsu thread with the same about how they are going down the drain because they will not support grey market japanase HC3100 for US warranty service?

And if this was a thread about Infocus issues - you could post all you want with your opinion.

The OP asked for a technical comparison of two PJ he was interested in - not a biz comparison of two companies he wants to buy stock in.

Anyone that reads my posts on any projector knows that it is based on competent and fair technical evaluation - and not based on what I can or can not or do not sell. In fact I never have sold Mitsubushi - but if you read what I write I did say it has better HD colors and I have recommended others purchase it when it was more suitable for their setup (including my very own prior Infocus customers). Not sure how that is considered as advocating Infocus.

The OP could care less about your sour grapes that you cannot fleabay Infocus in an authorized manner that you can get away with on other brands. But a strong authorized dealer policy is hardly unique to Infocus - now are you going to join up on the Panny on Amazon thread with the same criticism? Or the Mitsu thread with the same about how they are going down the drain because they will not support grey market japanase HC3100 for US warranty service?

I can do without the insults and innuendo that aren't even close to accurate--I always experienced you as very thoughtful--if you have an issue with me please PM me or call me.
Thank you-

lol

ahhh, so leckian's a "dealer" is he? LOL!!!!

sour grapes indeed!!!!! :p

lol

ahhh, so leckian's a "dealer" is he? LOL!!!!

sour grapes indeed!!!!! :p

No sour grapes at all--there aren't any--it has nothing to do with sour grapes--this is my honest opinion--I particpate here as a hobbyist just like everyone else--I have no fancy signature announcing what I do.

Well, I feel pretty confident that I have narrowed my search down to two good PJ's after hearing the comparisons here. Quite honestly I'm not sure what to make of the InFocus Corporation discussion. I guess my only concern is if they would be around long enough to honor their warranty but I don't think they're going anywhere that fast. Then again, as I said, I am a noob.

Now it becomes a matter of whether or not the IN76 is worth the extra money or not. The offset would work a little better in my room but I'm pretty sure the Mits would do just fine. Thanks to those who have provided the head-to-head technical info., it is very helpful. Does anyone know how the two compare for noise and light spill?

Mitsu is quieter - but has the more open biz styled case. It can get just as bright as the Infocus when you stray from calibrated - it has an IRIS - but it is manual one and not very quiet when you go to adjust it. Not something you want to adjust during the movie for best blacks or brightest whites. But something to open up for the Sunday game.

Infocus Play Big is much quieter than ScreenPlay used to be - but they are not the quietest on the market since they are bright and are thus needing lots of cooling to keep down the heat. The fan is temperature sensitive as well as table/ceiling mount sensitive. The HT style case has no light spill. You might want to tape on a ND2 lens if it is too brite initially - as it has no IRIS.

Both of these issues depends on your install - if a black ceiling light spill is a non issue, noisy HVAC or PJ booth/hushbox then noise is a non-issue.

You already mentioned the offsets - which Infocus is maybe half that of Mitsu - but did you know that with a little shimming - you can tilt your screen forward a tad and recoup some offset?

I particpate here as a hobbyist just like everyone else--I have no fancy signature announcing what I do.No, you just put your 800 number in your profile! :rolleyes:Your HT Gear:
It's a busman's holiday-whatever I have laying around.
Location:
Newton, NH USA
Interests:
hometheater, hiking, computers, music & spirit
Occupation:
Home Theater 800-xxx-xxxx

No, you just put your 800 number in your profile! :rolleyes:Your HT Gear:
It's a busman's holiday-whatever I have laying around.
Location:
Newton, NH USA
Interests:
hometheater, hiking, computers, music & spirit
Occupation:
Home Theater 800-xxx-xxxx


For those who take the trouble to look at my profile fine--not in my posts--not in my signature--never PM posters--and never hint in my posts that I am involved in sales--post only as a hobbyist-I am lucky I can enjoy my hobby while I work-
Thank you-

You already mentioned the offsets - which Infocus is maybe half that of Mitsu - but did you know that with a little shimming - you can tilt your screen forward a tad and recoup some offset?


The Mits sounds good but with only 92" ceilings, there would definitely be some tilting and shimming. I can live with a small combination of tilting (projector and screen) and keystone but not much. I would be happy with the bottom of the screen about 2' from the floor (maybe a little more). At what point do I just say forget it and go for the IN76? How much is too much?

How much is too much?

When the WAF says why is the screen and projector tilted and you say so it is so you can have a perfectly square image - and she looks at you like this :eek:

Ah yes, the :eek: factor.