Here's the deal. I work in the video game industry, and have just set up a game test area at work for our Wii, 360, and PS3. I bought this before PS3 came out, thinking that 1080p would be the way to go. Boy, was I wrong.

We bought a new 46" Sony Bravia, which is 1080p native. Running a 1080p signal looks great... only problem is, 1080p games account for about 0.2% of the gaming market. Most next gen stuff is run at 720p, and these look terrible on the 1080p screen. Lots of jaggies in games - running the exact same games at home on my PLV-Z4 projector, with its native res of 1280 x 720, and they look perfect with no jaggies (same is true of my older PLV-Z2 projector, which was also natively 1280 x 720). It's obviously an issue with scaling the 720p signal up to a non-native resolution of 1080p. I've seen the same thing at every gaming company I've been too - Activision, Microsoft, Vivendi and Sony are just a few that use LCD TVs which aren't natively 1280 x 720, and the games look like jaggie, shimmering messes due to scaling issues.

Well, I've got a chance to palm the new Bravia off to another department at work, and get a new one for the gaming guys. I'm specifically after something over 40" in size, and that will do justice to a 1280 x 720 signal. Is it possible to buy an LCD or Plasma screen over 40" that is natively 1280 x 720? Hope you can help - image quality is of paramount importance to us, so getting rid of these jaggies is a must.

I have the Sony KDLXBR1. An amazing 720 p set that was basically the LCD of the year in 2005-6.

You could get it pretty cheap now since all the new fancy 1080 p sets are out.

The X360 will scale all of your games to 1080p. PS3 not so much...

If you are going to set up a game testing environment, you need a screen solution for each system. The Wii would work well with an EDTV Plasma or LCD. X360 can be ran native at 720p or scaled to 1080p. If you are hoping to find one solution for all three units then you're on the wrong track.

I suggest a 720p DLP at 61 inches for the group. No motion blur and big screens at cheap prices. For about three thousand dollars you can get both a great 720p AND 1080p Samsung DLP set over 50 inches.

I also work in the game industry and have since 2000. If you need anything just PM or email and I'd be happy to help you nail the right display.

My 46V2500 looks great with a 720p feed. Not sure on Xbox 360 cause well, I just run
1920x1080 on my console of course...

But I have changed resolutions on my DirecTV HR20 box from 1080i to 720p on Fox HD
feeds to see if there's a difference and there really isn't... both look just as good.

If you like Sony, there is a 46" 720p LCD. I have one and it works great with gaming systems.

The X360 will scale all of your games to 1080p... X360 can be ran native at 720p or scaled to 1080p.

Hmm, how is this so? I know the 360 can scale to 1080i, but the problem then is a major drop in performance in many games - frame rates plummet. 1080p on 360 is only supported by 2 games that I know of, and our Bravia won't accept 1080p over component anyway.

If you like Sony, there is a 46" 720p LCD. I have one and it works great with gaming systems.

What's the model number?

Thanks for all the info guys!

Hmm, how is this so? I know the 360 can scale to 1080i, but the problem then is a major drop in performance in many games - frame rates plummet. 1080p on 360 is only supported by 2 games that I know of, and our Bravia won't accept 1080p over component anyway.



What's the model number?

Thanks for all the info guys!
Does your Bravia not have a VGA input? I have noticed zero frame-rate drop when scaling all my 360 games to 1080p through component or VGA on my Samsung DLP.

The only way to get 1080p from the 360 is thru vga,component is 1080i
Thats why they are coming out with the ELITE 360 which will have 1080p true HDMI and it also has a 120gig HD.

Look again, Component will do 1080P.

My Sony 42inch KDF E42-A10 looks great in 720p but has been repalced with a 46inch model that I believe HD_Lantern is refering too. It is of course a rear projector just like the Samsung DLP.

I keep hearing that 1280 x 720p rear projection TVs offer some of the best image quality... hmmm very interesting!

They are great TechNovice, they just are not as fancy as the wall mountable flatpanel types. It seems to me and its just my observation that the smaller the screen the better as well, 42inch on down.

I own a 42 A10 and love it. to this day....this set at this size looks better than ALOT of 1080p lcd tvs. everytime i go into the sony store this tv just kills these $5,000 1080p tv's on most content.

As far as 720p and 1080i content goes....the 42 A10 just produces a better picture versus the majority of sony 1080p sets being feed the same signal IMHO. and the damn set only cost $1,000 now.

720p for this gen. 1080p for next gen. Atleast thats my plan.

Thanks for all your advice guys. I never thought I'd be going for an "old school" rear projection TV, but we've just ordered the 55" BRAVIA 3LCD TV KF55E200, which has a native res of 1280 x 720. Can't wait to see this baby in action! Our AU$4,000 1080p screen will now be relogated to PowerPoint duties in the boardroom.

Look again, Component will do 1080P.

Not on the Sony LCDs.

The scalers/deinterlacers that Bravias use are garbage.

Hmm, how is this so? I know the 360 can scale to 1080i, but the problem then is a major drop in performance in many games - frame rates plummet. 1080p on 360 is only supported by 2 games that I know of, and our Bravia won't accept 1080p over component anyway.

360 can scale games to 1080i/p with no performance penalty. how is that you work in the gaming industry and not know this? sorry if this sounds harsh.

The scalers/deinterlacers that Bravias use are garbage.

Eh, that might be a bit of an exaggeration, but I'm not a hardcore video buff... the
PQ on the Bravias beats pretty much every other brand I looked at which is why I
fought to find a set with close to no clouding.

You make it sound like passing 720p to it will look like crap and that's just not true.

However, to avoid the deinterlacer in a Bravia, that makes the Elite even more
important so that you're feeding it 1080p over HDMI instead of using Components
limited to 1080i and letting the TV deinterlace. Not that I think it'd make a HUGE
difference or anything, but always best to feed the set it's native res...

360 can scale games to 1080i/p with no performance penalty. how is that you work in the gaming industry and not know this? sorry if this sounds harsh.

I think he meant true rendering in 1080p is a tradeoff in quality versus rendering
in 720p and scaling.

I've seen the same thing at every gaming company I've been too - Activision, Microsoft, Vivendi and Sony are just a few that use LCD TVs which aren't natively 1280 x 720, and the games look like jaggie, shimmering messes due to scaling issues.
It takes a really poor scaler to introduce any jaggies or shimmering, for the 360 you can it at 1080p or 1080i depending on what your display can accept and the scaler on it won't cause any such problems. My friend has a 768p Bravia he bought despite my advice, and he has to run his 360 at 1080i because 720p looks awful on it too, while his display deinterlaces and scales 1080i nicely.

Regardless, a display with a good scaler that can handle all resolutions well is far nicer to use than one of any particular resolution. And besides, of the few displays that are actually 1280x720 native, many will overscan the image slightly to avoid the junk that often winds up on the edges of poor quality broadcasts and transfers; so while such TVs are 720p native they are still scaling the image on the screen slightly from say 1258x702 while running the other 32 lines and 18 columns of the image off the edge of the screen.

So anyway, as far as overall image quality goes I recommend checking out plasmas. All the major brands like Panasonic, Pioneer and NEC make great displays with quality scaling and it pretty much just comes down to whatever model suits you best. Alternatively, if you are happy with your display at 1080p, you could always get an external scaler to do a great job converting everything to that.

You make it sound like passing 720p to it will look like crap and that's just not true.
However, to avoid the deinterlacer in a Bravia, that makes the Elite even more
important so that you're feeding it 1080p over HDMI instead of using Components
limited to 1080i and letting the TV deinterlace. Not that I think it'd make a HUGE
difference or anything, but always best to feed the set it's native res...
That's what I'm doing but still see jaggies/shimmering. It's a new 40" XBR2. It's not terrible, probably a factor of 720p being upscaled. It's not 1080p to begin with. Halo 3 supposedly. Too bad I don't care about Halo 3. Resident Evil 5, holy crap, I'd be rubbing the package on my crotch the whole drive home.

USC your choise will more then do a great job. People get so carried away in technical crap that they cant just sit back and enjoy anything. I would suggest that you stop reading this stuff and just look at your new set with a clear mind, that way you dont automaticaly look for something bad.

I never liked the new sony lcds, always saw tons of ghosting/motion blurr -
in my honest opinion return the Sony and grab yourself a 50" panasonic plasma - even out of the box before setting it up the picture is phenomenal. i have the 50px50u and the new 50px77u, the black levels are awesome and when playing Gears of war people drool over how sharp and brillant the picture looks, no jagged edges, no motion blur, and no i have never had any burn in - I've sold many xbr2'3 series and most people end up returning them and go with panasonic. great price, best picture for the buck, consumer reports #1 plasma

...when playing Gears of war people drool over how sharp and brillant the picture looks, no jagged edges...
Gears has lots of jagged edges because most of it is rendered without any anti-aliasing, and no display can do anything to resolve that.

I never liked the new sony lcds, always saw tons of ghosting/motion blurr -
in my honest opinion return the Sony and grab yourself a 50" panasonic plasma

I like looking at my games and movies, not the reflections of windows and lamps. ;)

Gears has lots of jagged edges because most of it is rendered without any anti-aliasing, and no display can do anything to resolve that.

But a soft/blurry display could help hide it. Seems to me a lot of 360 games have crap AA and would benefit from being shown on a display that wasn't showing them pixel for pixel as they were rendered.

I have a panny 42inch plasma and its the best TV I've ever owned, xbox and PS3 look incredible. It also doesn an excellent job with SD signals from my PS2 as well.

Thanks for all your advice guys. I never thought I'd be going for an "old school" rear projection TV, but we've just ordered the 55" BRAVIA 3LCD TV KF55E200, which has a native res of 1280 x 720. Can't wait to see this baby in action! Our AU$4,000 1080p screen will now be relogated to PowerPoint duties in the boardroom.
I have that same TV 55e2000 and xbox360 looks awesome @11ft. back, no lag or ghosting.

Can't speak for the PS3 as I don't have one, but it has HDMI which should work fine. I've got my Wii via component at 480p (composite/s-video is horrible in comparison), and my 360 via vga at 720p (not the 1366/768...now THAT gave me the jaggies...) and everything looks wonderful on my Sharp 46" (46D92U). Couldn't ask for better refresh at 4ms or black levels 3000:1 native. Everything is as smooth and crisp as can be. Highly recommend it for gaming. There's a 52" (52D92U) model as well.

I could have the 360 using the other component hookup and go 1080i and let the TV do the deinterlacing (which was fine for games) but then I loose the excellent DVD upconverting. I'm eyeing on of them thar 'Elite' models.....just have to verify the upconverting for DVD. And talk my wife into it...

The scalers/deinterlacers that Bravias use are garbage.

:rolleyes: Thats a load of crap. My parents 40" 1080p XBR2 is easily the best picture I have ever seen, across resolutions, and it does a fantastic job with all forms of signals.

Thats a load of crap. My parents 40" 1080p XBR2 is easily the best picture I have ever seen, across resolutions, and it does a fantastic job with all forms of signals.

ya mabye from 20 feet away....

Whatever man. Tell ya what, since I know you haven't hooked a 360 or PS3 up to a XBR2, while I have, hows about you not judge it? I love how these guys, whose impressions of a TV's picture are based on what they saw on it at Sears or Circuit City, feel qualified enough to put down the opinions of people who actually use these sets in a REAL environment.

I recommended the TV to them after seeing it on display in my bosses house and since that time, I have recommended it to two friends of mine, both of which bought it, and both of which are extremely pleased with its performance. So, I think I will go off the impressions of my own eyes and other peoples comments (that I know) rather than yours.

actually bro i bought a 46xbr3 for my parents and returned it, i work for
Magnolia A/V and I've hooked up a ps3 and xbox to just about every tv in the store, mabye it looks good to u but sony lcd's are crap nowadays....

Whatever you say there sailor. :p

You've made so many ridiculous claims that from this point forward I doubt you have much credibility. I seriously doubt that "most people that have bought the XBR2 returned them", as you said. That is something that would get around the forum here and frankly, it hasn't. On the flip side, I actually can attest that the people that I know, that have the XBR2, like it a lot. We all have our preferences, and thats fine, but I get the feeling you're exaggerating a lot, so you can rip Sony.

Oh, and it's "maybe" not "mabye".