I have been trying to decide between these two subs and would appreciate anyones opinion.

SVS:
http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-isd2.cfm


HSU:
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3-mk3-turbo.html

Two different monsters.

The NSD/2 has dual woofers and will really pound out a ton of bass from 22hz and up when left in its native tune.

The 3.3+turbo will dig deeper...down to 16hz-14hz in room and will give you some good SPL numbers as well.


We need to know alot more information from you....

ROOM SIZE...LxWxH

Is the room sealed or open to other rooms

What is your listening preference.....REFERENCE, Loud, normal, low

Is this a 100% HT application....or a split between HT and General Music listening?

That should give us a start...

Sorry, I should have included this info:
-It is a finished basement (no drop ceiling) that is 22' long, 16' wide and 8' ceilings and in opens to a L shape with a smaller room off the back.
-My preference is loud but my wife would say normal...so it's normal, if the kids are asleep.
-The basement has concrete walls and it is carpeted over concrete.
-It is used for HT only and music is not a concern.
-Size of the sub is not a concern.

I have a 51" Hitachi HDTV, Denon 1907 receiver and a HD-A2 DVD player.

I appreciate any input.

It is so hard to tell you which to buy..

Both are great choices for your application...

I think the NSD/2 will give you a little more SPL.....its a powerful subwoofer.

The 3.3+turbo will go a little deeper.

So flip a coin :)

how does 2 12" subs and more 2 times the watts and 1 more port---- not out perform 1 12" sub. ?

how does 2 12" subs and more 2 times the watts and 1 more port---- not out perform 1 12" sub. ?
Because it is not just about output, more watts, and more drivers.

To paraphrase craigsub in his subjective testing the Hsu VTF-3MK3 "just sounded better" than a SVS PB12plus/2.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10348939&&#post10348939

how does 2 12" subs and more 2 times the watts and 1 more port---- not out perform 1 12" sub. ?

the winner depends on what you want your sub to do. for sheer, monstrous output, the SVS NSD/2 would be the way to go. if you want a more well-rounded sub that will hit the lowest frequencies with less distortion, with linear output, and an edge in SQ, the HSU would be your best bet.

neither sub is a slouch or sounds bad, they just have different strengths. keep in mind too, that the "rankings" are coming from someone with a highly trained and critical ear for bass, and you may or may not perceive the differences he did. the rankings are great and that thread is highly informative, but take it all with a grain of salt. do as much research as you can from multiple sources, and make your own decision.

Ive never heard an SVS so this post might be pointless ..I just wanted to comment on my 3.3 w/ Turbo, it's an amazing sounding sub with by far the cleanest bass Ive experienced and Its great how impactful the bass is during movies , If you listen to a lot of music removing the Turbo and setting the amp filter to 25hz delivers more powerful bass (Which makes sense considering most music isn't focused below 25hz..or 30hz for that matter) Its nice having this option although removing the turbo is kind of cumbersome.

I recently added a Cerwin Vega CLS-15s sub (I got it cheap) but all it did was further prove how good the HSU sounds, sure my overall SPL went up but it seems to of clouded the sound with lower quality (muddy) bass, but its only really noticable when Im pushing the subs during SPL tests, For music listening having both subs enabled sounds pretty nice.

how does 2 12" subs and more 2 times the watts and 1 more port---- not out perform 1 12" sub. ?That's like asking how does a top fuel funny car with 1000 hp and fatter tires not out perform a Ferrari with 500 hp and smaller tires on a winding road coarse. The funny car just isn't made for cornering. Each sub is made for a different purpose. The SVS will play louder, but won't go as low and the Hsu will go lower and have better SQ.

Here's another choice,
http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=104
I have the A5-300 and have nothing but good things to say about it.

Because it is not just about output, more watts, and more drivers.

To paraphrase craigsub in his subjective testing the Hsu VTF-3MK3 "just sounded better" than a SVS PB12plus/2.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10348939&&#post10348939

Curtis Chang knows what he is talking about.

Best

But sounding better is up to the op, not us. What I, Craigsub, spyboy, etc... thinks sounds better may sound like crap to someone else. Did all the people actually compare these 2 subs side by side like craigsub to state their facts. I hope so, otherwise you are all taking a guess or using another's opinion as fact. I don't own either or never had heard the 2 so I won't make a guess. What exactly is the op looking for? Spl, extension, wall shaking, etc... Better sound quality is up to him. I personally think there are better sounding than both for the money.

But sounding better is up to the op, not us. What I, Craigsub, spyboy, etc... thinks sounds better may sound like crap to someone else. Did all the people actually compare these 2 subs side by side like craigsub to state their facts. I hope so, otherwise you are all taking a guess or using another's opinion as fact. I don't own either or never had heard the 2 so I won't make a guess. What exactly is the op looking for? Spl, extension, wall shaking, etc... Better sound quality is up to him. I personally think there are better sounding than both for the money.

Why would you say that after just admitting you've never heard either sub :confused:

I was wondering the same thing. If you've never heard either one how can you say there are better sounding subs for the money? Didn't you just call us out for recommeding one over the other based only on what we've read? Aren't you doing the same thing?

You are absolutley right when it comes to HSU, but I have owned svs's better subs than the one mentioned(better according to SVS). I think when we start doing this it confuses the op even more rather than helping him. Of course without knowing what he wants exactly is also hard. He should state what he thinks is better for him. Higher spl's, more speed, more detail, lower extension, etc... Of course everyone thinks their sub has it all. I think if people could explain how their sub sounds with music or movies better it would make it easier. When we say speed some may not know what that exactly means. I really did not know that myself until I tried different subs. I will give an example of what I mean, during KING KONG when kong falls from the vines to fight the last T-rex he hits the ground with alot of impact. My SVS(PB12/plus/2) hit me hard and then rattled some doors(I have to seal those), with my new subs you get hit harder with 2 impacts, 1 for each foot, it actually startled me. Is that more speed, detail? I don't know which sub would be better, they both get great reviews and their owners love them. I would by the cheaper and get 2. I don't think he can go wrong.

In other words when people say it sounds better, why, explain. I think craigsub did in his review but did anyone here? That would help him the most. The best thing for him to do is audition them both at the same time and let him tell us what he thinks.

Curtis Chang knows what he is talking about.

Best


MK knows what he is talking about....

BEST! ;)

I think it would be a waste of money for the OP to have to return a sub. I think that one can make a sufficient determination from: extension, flat frequency response, low THD, and headroom.

The vast majority of internet subs are purchased sound unheard. The differences in sound quality among my Cerwin-Vega HT-12PWR (rated 2nd by Tom Nousaine), my SVS 25-31 CS, my SVS 20-39PCi, and my dual HSU VTF-3HOs plus Turbos are minor, at best.

I had no problem ordering my Onix X-Sub in Rosa Diamond Palisander without hearing it first. I remain convinced that: extension, flat FR, low THD, and headroom tell potential purchasers as much as they need to know.

I would not hesitate to order the new SVS Ultra without hearing it first. How many people do you think are going to order the new SVS Ultra without hearing it first?

Best

Alot of people do this, but not all. If he does not hear both and orders one of them he will always wonder what if, whether he is happy or not. I don't agree that all you have to do is look at the specs of a sub. This is audio, you have to hear it. If people can't tell a difference they will save alot of money. Back to the specs, my new subs are not even close in specs when it comes to fr response and extension with alot of the subs I have owned, but they sound better than them all, just as good extension. So which spec is it? Who knows. I will give the op this to think about. Both SVS and HSU offer great subs. The SVS he is considering is very good, but not their top sub. Their are a few that are better. The HSU is their second best and from what I have read not that far off from the HO. I would probably get the HSU(but I have heard many SVS's and would try something new). You can't go wrong.

I remain convinced that: extension, flat FR, low THD, and headroom tell potential purchasers as much as they need to know.

While I think that tells a big part of the story, I certainly do not think that is all the story. If it was, the "good" subwoofers would sound the same, and they clearly do not.

This is something people that have not compared subs in the same room/conditions have a tough time of understanding or expressing, which is why they only have "how loud does it get" for comparison. Sound quality is not the same as "loud"....far from it.

I agree

MKtheater I like your description of the way the subs sound. As a new sub person, this type of detail helps a lot. What type of sub let you hear two sounds from the impact of kong's two feet? I realize that room size and treatments will have different outcomes. However we can get a general idea of what is going on, along with the specs of these subs.

Thanks alot

I am using huge Madison horn subs. Very big and not the best looking. I have a dedicated room so that does not matter. They made my SVS PB12/plus/2 look very small. The desription is what I am talking about. Saying that it is faster might not help, or more detailed. I think decribing what happens in detail helps much better. Horn subs sound much different than most home subs, they have a higher pitch. Mine sound like a commercial theater(a very good one) but much more powerful and lower extension(perks of smaller rooms).

How about some pictures or links? Any other descriptions on other movies would be great. It helps me understand some of the differences in subs with something that I can try out on my equip. Anybody else out there that might want to describe what your HSU or SVS might sound like on particular scenes?

Many thanks

Thanks

Not knowing where the OP lives, I can recommend that you can call HSU and ask for an audition. I did and it helped me buy one. I'm sure you can do the same wherever SVS is located. I don't think you'll be screwed buying either but subs are very subjective to the owner and you should take the opportunity to get a demo.

James

Oh....Hsu is located in Anaheim if you're near there.

The difference between t two options is insignificant compared to the improvement you would get with some bass traps and an eq (no matter which of the 2 subs you got).

If there was a "better" of the 2, it would sound worse just put in a room compared to the "lesser" (if there was one) in a room with a few bass traps and proper eq'ing to flatten the response.

I'd rather have a $500 sub with bass traps and eq than a $1000 sub with nothing else...



What does that give you? Bass traps let you hear detail and texture in the bass that otherwise are masked by the ringing and boominess in the room. It's not evident to most people until you hear it with bass traps installed. And eq'ing the subwoofer's response for the seating position means that instead of letting room acoustics boost certain frequencies and suck others out, making some bass sound good and other bass sound lackluster, instead every single bass note is at the volume it is supposed to be relative to the rest of the bass. Instead of boomy, one-noted bass in movies and music, you can tell what the bass is actually supposed to be like. Upgrading from a $500 sub to a $2K sub will get you somewhat better performance, but it is nothing like the boost in performance and actual sound quality you get with treating your room and eqing the response.

While I won't argue the merits of acoustical treatment to the room, but if the sub isn't playing that detail or texture, you will never hear it...treatments or not. :)

I'll back cyberbri up on this one. The impact and detail brought out by effective implementation of acoustic treatments/bass traps combined with EQ is nothing short of remarkable.

Some people around here are rightfully fond of mentioning that unless you have heard a specific sub you may not be qualified to comment on it's actual performance. I submit that the same can be said in reference to whether someone has heard a capable sub in a properly acoustically treated/bass trapped and EQ'd listening environment.

The difference is not at all subtle.

Tim

While I won't argue the merits of acoustical treatment to the room, but if the sub isn't playing that detail or texture, you will never hear it...treatments or not. :)


Yes, that is very true. I have a HSU (VTF-3.2) and appreciate all of the detail and texture I hear, especially after adding bass traps and a BFD.

I have heard a SVS tube, and was impressed by the brute force and SPL it pumped out. However it was probably being run very hot. And there was no room treatment and no eq, and everything in the room shook so I heard the room vibrating as much as I heard the actual bass. Not my style. I would love to hear it properly eq'd and in a room with some bass traps, though. And in a room with an entertainment center that didn't vibrate and rattle any time there is bass.

Yes, that is very true. I have a HSU (VTF-3.2) and appreciate all of the detail and texture I hear, especially after adding bass traps and a BFD.

I have heard a SVS tube, and was impressed by the brute force and SPL it pumped out. However it was probably being run very hot. And there was no room treatment and no eq, and everything in the room shook so I heard the room vibrating as much as I heard the actual bass. Not my style. I would love to hear it properly eq'd and in a room with some bass traps, though. And in a room with an entertainment center that didn't vibrate and rattle any time there is bass.
Have the owner bring it to your place for comparison! :)

during KING KONG when kong falls from the vines to fight the last T-rex he hits the ground with alot of impact. My SVS(PB12/plus/2) hit me hard and then rattled some doors(I have to seal those), with my new subs you get hit harder with 2 impacts, 1 for each foot, it actually startled me.
I had a chance to run this scene a few times this morning with my 3.3 w/turbo and definitely get 2 impacts with each foot with the house moving too. :D

Were you not getting both impacts with the PB12/2?

I had a chance to run this scene a few times this morning with my 3.3 w/turbo and definitely get 2 impacts with each foot with the house moving too. :D

Were you not getting both impacts with the PB12/2?

Same here (3.3 w/ Turbo) but im also hearing the same 2 impacts with just my lowly Cerwin Vega CLS-15s sub by itself. Perhaps he's thinking of another scene.(?)

I know you guys are trying to be funny but how loud and what level do you listen to. I listen at reference levels and many subs lose control or don't reach the levels(or want to) that I hit. I get no rattles with my sub(with this scene), maybe your sub is not fast enough. With the SVS I did get alot of rattles. Oh, I hit 120 db's at this scene.

I also hit 125 db's at certain scenes and the sub stays under control with alot of speed. How about you?

Ah sorry I was being serious however I didnt test it at refrence levels which actually makes a lot of sense (oops), ill try it again sometime today.

Besides I already told the guy to buy the HSU. I am not biased in any way. Yes my SVS would hit very loud but the rattling was so violent I would miss the second impact. Remember I play at very loud levels, I also do this to see how my other equipment stands up.

Besides I already told the guy to buy the HSU. I am not biased in any way. Yes my SVS would hit very loud but the rattling was so violent I would miss the second impact. Remember I play at very loud levels, I also do this to see how my other equipment stands up.
So at these loud levels, your current sub is less violent and you hear both impacts?

On that scene at reference levels I get slammed by 2 footsteps. no rattling.

He'd need to rent a truck or a van. ;) It's a monster. 16-46+ I believe.

On that scene at reference levels I get slammed by 2 footsteps. no rattling.
Then I am confused. What are you referring to in this post:
I will give an example of what I mean, during KING KONG when kong falls from the vines to fight the last T-rex he hits the ground with alot of impact. My SVS(PB12/plus/2) hit me hard and then rattled some doors(I have to seal those), with my new subs you get hit harder with 2 impacts, 1 for each foot, it actually startled me. Is that more speed, detail?

I sold the SVS and now I am using 18 inch horn subs.

I see you are the ascend's moderator. I have been curious about those speakers.

I see you are the ascend's moderator. I have been curious about those speakers.
There have been so many posts about them, the best advice I can give you now is to try and get a listen/audition. :)

I saw that. When my speakers finally breakdown(I hope not), I will definitely try them. Back to the subs. I owned the SVS pb12/plus/2 which I just sold, I have owned many other svs subs as well as many other brands. I was comparing the 2 subs. Again, I listen at reference levels and put the subs through its paces.

What kind of rattles are being referred to here? room rattles, or rattles from the subwoofer itself?

fyi, I use a PC Ultra in a treated/trapped and EQ'd room. I just played that scene from King Kong at -12MV with the sub calibrated 6db hot. There are 2 very distinct impacts, and the first impact is slightly higher in pitch too.

I had forgotten just how good that soundtrack is, very clean, clear, impactful and dimensional. I'm going to have to watch the movie all the way through again very soon. :)

Tim

When I say rattles I mean room shaking. My mistake. The SVS would make both sounds but due to the shaking you could miss it. The ultra is supposed to be better anyway. I was very pleased with the SVS.

Hi guys,

I drove to the SVS factory today and picked up my new sub. I am setting it up as we speak but so far it is absolutely amazing. I have to tweak it but so far so good and I will post some more info. after I get it setup properly.

Hi guys,

I drove to the SVS factory today and picked up my new sub.
I aSSume the PB-12 NSD/2??

Yes,

I got the PB-12 NSD/2 and it really shakes the house. More to follow.

Congrats on the sub. I am sure you will be pleased.

Congrats. Any good sub is a real improvement to home theater. :D

Hi guys,

I have my SVS PB-12 NSD/2 setup and it is great. Ed and Ron from SVS have been outstanding with their support and I am very happy with my purchase. I have listed the reasons I went with SVS below:

1) Made in America and I was able to drive to the plant in OH and meet the guys that made my sub. Made in America means something to me.

2) Pre and post order response from SVS has been outstanding. I am brand new to HT and these guys were able to help me every step of the way.

3) I feel it is a very good value and the performance is outstanding.

4) The sub just rocks.....