We have been told that TDK has been in the Bluray camp for a variety of things, including the Durabis coating which is used (only) on Recordable BD-R/RE discs.

But we have just learnt that TDK are making the laser pickup heads for the 2 Million HD DVD players just contracted by Walmart from a company in Taiwan and China - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10351259&&#post10351259

BTW - it looks like these new HD DVD players may sell for between $200 and $300 and will start arriving in stores in around Sept/October, potentially.

So we've seen Bluray stalwarts like LG, Samsung and now TDK making the shift to support HD DVD.

Who will switch to HD DVD next, and is this the beginning of the end for Bluray?

Additional note: TDK has just been sold to Imation, another big HD DVD supporter. It looks like a sea-change is beginning - http://www.emedialive.com/Articles/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=12652

Thoughts? ...

BTW - it looks like these new HD DVD players may sell for between $200 and $300 and will start arriving in stores in around Sept/October, potentially.
Nah. They'll be $199.

Nah. They'll be $199.
Excellent!

Who will switch to HD DVD next, and is this the beginning of the end for Bluray?
.


- if every one goes multi format, it will come down to Universal and Sony being exclusive. So who makes more movies and has a bigger market share ?

- projected sales for PS3 in USA by 2010 are 30 million.

There will never be a end for BR, same cant be said about hddvd.

You're smoking some pretty good stuff if you think the PS3 sold 30 million units in 2006. Even if you added in all of 2007, they will get nowhere near that number worldwide, much less the US alone.

Although it may have been Sony plan I doubt now the PS3 will even hit 30 million units in the US by 2010. While I think HD DVD still has an uphill fight even the most diehard BD fans have to admit the PS3 effect was nowhere near what Sony promised. Had they known it was going to do so little so late I wonder how many of the studios would have stayed in HD DVD or went neutral from the beginning.

Although it may have been Sony plan I doubt now the PS3 will even hit 30 million units in the US by 2010. While I think HD DVD still has an uphill fight even the most diehard BD fans have to admit the PS3 effect was nowhere near what Sony promised. Had they known it was going to do so little so late I wonder how many of the studios would have stayed in HD DVD or went neutral from the beginning.

So little so late?

HD DVD has been out a year and could not hit the disc sales that Blu Ray has achieved in the 6 months that the PS3 has been on the scene.

The PS3 effect pales in comparison to the Wal-Mart effect.

You're smoking some pretty good stuff if you think the PS3 sold 30 million units in 2006. Even if you added in all of 2007, they will get nowhere near that number worldwide, much less the US alone.

ai crap, i ment 2010!

And it is some good stuff iam smokin!! :D

The PS3 effect pales in comparison to the Wal-Mart effect.

this dude must be smokin my stuff.

:cool:

Well, if that Paramount dude is to be believed, PS3s are worth about 0.22 of a standalone in terms of movie sales. That means 30 million PS3s is worth 6.6 million standalones.

Judging by current movie disc attachment rates for the PS3, that Paramount estimate doesn't seem to be too far off.

Honestly I think the Wii will win this one with the PS3 just behind the 360. In the US anyways. Gears of War kept the 360 selling at the same if not better pace even after the PS3 and the Wii came out. Wait until Halo comes out.... Bah back on topic.

TDK like everyone else is out to make money and they have always been known for making optical media and sometimes drives. Regardless their name will have little impact for most but the technology should be interesting from a techie point of view. Being sold to imation just means they will be dipping in both pots. Just like DVD+R and DVD-R.

Do you think that TDK see the writing on the wall for Bluray like Samsung and LG?

I mean, the PS3 came which was supposed to wipe out HD DVD, BD got a sales surge and pulled ahead of HD DVD, then just as BD passed the total discs sold that HD DVD had, the sales flattened out and HD DVD has caught back up in the last 4 weeks.

Bluray hit the "nitrous oxide button" and emptied the tank. Now HD DVD has got $199 players coing out at the worlds largest retailer and BD has no other cards to play, it seems.

The fact that TDK is building these pickup heads for these new players is very significant.

Who else may be switching to HD DVD?

Sony will keep backing BD...but nobody else will. Seems familiar (betamax, SACD, UMD, ....BD). If it comes down to a standoff between everyone neutral and Universal HD DVD and Sony BD...do we have any doubt? Sony will follow the money and eventually go with HD DVD (as well as still making BD to suppor their "fans"). They may be dumb, but they aren't stupid...or are they :)

Same thing happened with VHS vs. Betamax and DVD vs. DIVX. The studios on the losing side eventually have to go to the winning side. Its pure economics.

Who will switch to HD DVD next, and is this the beginning of the end for Bluray?

Additional note: TDK has just been sold to Imation, another big HD DVD supporter. It looks like a sea-change is beginning -
Word has it that Hitachi and Kenwood will be supporting HD DVD. No official word yet, however. The following is in French (from a CE trader):

http://www.cinemotion.biz/informacion.php?iinfo=120

Here is a rough translation (someone feel free to correct any mistranslation):

"In closing, know that HD-DVD is proud to have two new allies in their corner in the way of Hitachi and Kenwood. Both are popular in Europe, and two more allies for this format is good news for Toshiba. We will share more with you soon."

Perhaps TDK is a bit miffed that BD elected to use their own coating and not use the more expensive TDK coating thus the modest support for HD DVD. :)

Word has it that Hitachi and Kenwood will be supporting HD DVD. No official word yet, however. The following is in French (from a CE trader):

http://www.cinemotion.biz/informacion.php?iinfo=120

Here is a rough translation (someone feel free to correct any mistranslation):

"In closing, know that HD-DVD is proud to have two new allies in their corner in the way of Hitachi and Kenwood. Both are popular in Europe, and two more allies for this format is good news for Toshiba. We will share more with you soon."

I believe both are already on the HD DVD promotion group and have been from the start. http://www.hddvdprg.com/eng/about/member.html

Word has it that Hitachi and Kenwood will be supporting HD DVD. No official word yet, however. The following is in French (from a CE trader):

http://www.cinemotion.biz/informacion.php?iinfo=120

Here is a rough translation (someone feel free to correct any mistranslation):

"In closing, know that HD-DVD is proud to have two new allies in their corner in the way of Hitachi and Kenwood. Both are popular in Europe, and two more allies for this format is good news for Toshiba. We will share more with you soon."

This news has been around for a while. With no announcements it could mean they have designed the serial number sticker for all new walmart players coming this fall...

http://www.hddvdprg.com/eng/about/member.html

I believe both are already on the HD DVD promotion group and have been from the start. http://www.hddvdprg.com/eng/about/member.html

Its been a long day but I am pretty sure Kenwood was added this month on the 4-2-07 Update...

Edit: forgot the "Update"... Thats it time for BED!

Sony will keep backing BD...but nobody else will. Seems familiar (betamax, SACD, UMD, ....BD). If it comes down to a standoff between everyone neutral and Universal HD DVD and Sony BD...do we have any doubt? Sony will follow the money and eventually go with HD DVD (as well as still making BD to suppor their "fans"). They may be dumb, but they aren't stupid...or are they :)

Same thing happened with VHS vs. Betamax and DVD vs. DIVX. The studios on the losing side eventually have to go to the winning side. Its pure economics.

its still a bit early to be predicting stuff like this.... (and im on the hd-dvd side of things generally). sorta akin to the sony/bd camp press releases saying the war was over in jan at ces this year.

there are still too many ifs in the plans but this is a good thing for hd-dvd for sure (assuming we get a cheap player at walmart) and could be the first thing to get that snowball effect going. we will know if it works if any studios go neutral with it.

We have been told that TDK has been in the Bluray camp for a variety of things, including the Durabis coating which is used (only) on Recordable BD-R/RE discs.

But we have just learnt that TDK are making the laser pickup heads for the 2 Million HD DVD players just contracted by Walmart from a company in Taiwan and China - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10351259&&#post10351259

BTW - it looks like these new HD DVD players may sell for between $200 and $300 and will start arriving in stores in around Sept/October, potentially.

So we've seen Bluray stalwarts like LG, Samsung and now TDK making the shift to support HD DVD.

Who will switch to HD DVD next, and is this the beginning of the end for Bluray?

Additional note: TDK has just been sold to Imation, another big HD DVD supporter. It looks like a sea-change is beginning - http://www.emedialive.com/Articles/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=12652

Thoughts? ...

TDK makes parts that can be used in a wide variety of machines. They also make most of the formats currently in existence: CD-Rs, DVD-Rs, DVD+Rs, etc...

They produce and sell to whoever wants to buy from them. I do not see why they would refuse to make parts for HD DVD players.

They are not Sony who has a lot at stake with BD. TDK is a smaller supporter out there to make money. They may support BD alright, but I doubt that means losing business opportunities with other companies... even if that contributes to making HD DVD players.

People should know that a company support for a specific format or anything only goes so far.

Saved by crappy Chinese players and porn? I doubt it - but that would be a fitting legacy.

Walmart better come up with a $300 dollar HDTV if they want their average customer to buy a HD player.

Saved by crappy Chinese players and porn? I doubt it - but that would be a fitting legacy.

Walmart better come up with a $300 dollar HDTV if they want their average customer to buy a HD player.
You've already said this before, but as everyone has already said in response, Wal-Mart has been selling much more expensive TVs for a very long time now, and moves a ton of them.

It's only natural for some companies to re-examine their plans. So far the only company making any money off of Blu-ray is Sony. The only way for the other BD supporting companies to make money is to go neutral or switch altogether.

It's only natural for some companies to re-examine their plans. So far the only company making any money off of Blu-ray is Sony. The only way for the other BD supporting companies to make money is to go neutral or switch altogether.
Since when is Sony making money off Blu-ray?

IMO the reason discontinued the 20 GB PS3 is not just because it was only 10% of their sales, but also because that 10% of their sales was bleeding them dry.

Since when is Sony making money off Blu-ray?

IMO the reason discontinued the 20 GB PS3 is not just because it was only 10% of their sales, but also because that 10% of their sales was bleeding them dry.

Of course Sony is making money on BD. Tons of it.
Haven't you heard? The war is over! BD won!
Why don't you listen???? :p :p :p :p :p

TDK makes parts that can be used in a wide variety of machines. They also make most of the formats currently in existence: CD-Rs, DVD-Rs, DVD+Rs, etc...

They produce and sell to whoever wants to buy from them. I do not see why they would refuse to make parts for HD DVD players.

They are not Sony who has a lot at stake with BD. TDK is a smaller supporter out there to make money. They may support BD alright, but I doubt that means losing business opportunities with other companies... even if that contributes to making HD DVD players.

People should know that a company support for a specific format or anything only goes so far.


Exactly, they make even the most basic components, liek resistors and capacitors. Do you think they would really say, "No, we won't sell you this lot of a million resistors because they go in a HD-DVD. Never mind that you could buy them from a dozen other places."

That's a quick route to bankruptcy.

BTW - it looks like these new HD DVD players may sell for between $200 and $300 and will start arriving in stores in around Sept/October, potentially.
I have never thought you could read Chinese.

This is from one website:

Ok, I'm Japanease so I can understand original chinease article in some extent.

According to original article, I understood

1) Bonds will be raised this July.
2) Finance will be made until next march.
3) Actual factory construction will be performed about the same time from finance.

After all, actual sales will be aimed for late 2008 holiday season. And if this player's price is $299, it's not so cheap. Until then, top brand's Blu-ray player's price will drop same range, and even $199, it will not to be decisive factor.
And as is often the case with an Asian rising company, this company also seems to tend to show oneself than ability.

So we've seen Bluray stalwarts like LG, Samsung and now TDK making the shift to support HD DVD.

Who will switch to HD DVD next, and is this the beginning of the end for Bluray?

Additional note: TDK has just been sold to Imation, another big HD DVD supporter. It looks like a sea-change is beginning - http://www.emedialive.com/Articles/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=12652

Thoughts? ...

I don't know about calling LG a "stalwart," unless you can think of their contributions to the format. Anyway I think it comes down to this: yes, some BD supporters are shifting towards HD DVD, but I don't think predictions of BD's end should be made until HD DVD begins outselling it once again. And... well, personally I don't think it will be this year (or ever).

HD DVD players can already be had for cheap cheap cheap; what's $400 vs $300 vs $200 after a certain point? Demand has not been picking up appreciably with each shift in price - and this from within a well respected brand like Toshiba - and I don't see a reason to believe that it will skyrocket in a paradigm-shifting manner once $200 players are introduced to Wal Mart.

HD DVD players can already be had for cheap cheap cheap; what's $400 vs $300 vs $200 after a certain point?

Please. As a gamer, you know there's a world of difference between $400, and $200 in consumer psychology. If historical and current console sales figures haven't informed you of this fact, I don't know what would.

Please. As a gamer, you know there's a world of difference between $400, and $200 in consumer psychology. If historical and current console sales figures haven't informed you of this fact, I don't know what would.

I absolutely *hate* the 'gamer' reductionist theories espoused by so many people on this forum; it's like a console war takeover around here, complete with idiotic arguments. Let's look at MP3 players instead - there are plenty of MP3 players that offer more for less that Apple's iPod, but yet people will still pay out for the iPod and the others get completely ignored. Why? Because there's more to consumer behavior than price alone.

Toshiba is a name that will carry some premium to the generics - I don't know what that premium is, but I do know that you can get Toshiba HD DVD players new in box at Amazon right now for under $300.

Consoles are a software driven business; price is a barrier that presents itself after the initial element of desire has been established. Thus how the GameCube could have been the least expensive, yet have sold the fewest consoles as well. Now, so what I'm seeing with HD DVD at present is that as the pricing barriers have gotten lower and lower... the demand for HD DVD is not seeming to go higher and higher.

Maybe a flood of 2 million inexpensive players is the answer, I don't know. But if the consumers understand full well that this player will not be capable of playing all high def films, that Disney is not among them, and that there is a format war at present... then I think the public will continue to be tepid, no matter the price. Or rather, perhaps it's a formula that will lead to a lot of sales, and a lot of returns as well.

Like I said RTO, when HD DVD starts outselling BD again, then we can talk about the demise of Blu-ray. No sooner.

Imation provides disks for both formats:http://www.imation.ca/en_CA/products/dvd_media_HD/index.html

I think TDK's support to BD was always based on likelyhood of their hard coat becoming mandatory. But it didn't. So I don't think TDK cares much ...

Please. As a gamer, you know there's a world of difference between $400, and $200 in consumer psychology. If historical and current console sales figures haven't informed you of this fact, I don't know what would.
Yeah, the main reason I got my Xbox 360 HD DVD drive was because it was CAD$200 (US$175), including a free movie and a remote. I would not have bought it had it been higher than CAD$250 (US$220). Yeah, I'm a cheapskate, but lots of people are.


I think TDK's support to BD was always based on likelyhood of their hard coat becoming mandatory. But it didn't. So I don't think TDK cares much ...
IIRC, companies like Panasonic simply use their own hard-coat. Obviously, it's much cheaper than having to licence TDK's tech.

So little so late?

HD DVD has been out a year and could not hit the disc sales that Blu Ray has achieved in the 6 months that the PS3 has been on the scene.

And blu ray was out a couple of months later - now roughly ten months with the standalones and they were a wash. Content was always on top for 6 months for HD DVD until the spiggot stopped for content. Now we see the content coming back for HD DVD and the graphs are showing both formats in striking distance. And that's with several million PS3s out there. Moral of story: number of PS3s doesn't translate into purchased movies because if it did Blu Ray would have smoked HD DVD off the chart months ago.

I absolutely *hate* the 'gamer' reductionist theories espoused by so many people on this forum; it's like a console war takeover around here. Let's look at MP3 players instead - there are plenty of MP3 players that offer more for less that Apple's iPod, but yet people will still pay out for the iPod and the others get completely ignored.

Toshiba is a name that will carry some premium to the generics - I don't know what that premium is, but I do know that you can get Toshiba HD DVD players new in box at Amazon for under $300.

Consoles are a software driven business; price is a barrier that presents itself after the initial element of desire has been established. Thus how the GameCube could have been the least expensive, yet sell the fewest consoles as well. Now, so what I'm seeing with HD DVD at present is that as the pricing barriers have gotten lower and lower... the demand for HD DVD is not seeming to go higher and higher.

Maybe a flood of 2 million inexpensive players is the answer, I don't know. But if the consumers understand full well that this player will not be capable of playing all high def films, that Disney is not among them, and that there is a format war at present... then I think the public will continue to be tepid, no matter the price.

Like I said RTO, when HD DVD starts outselling BD again, then we can talk.

I didn't say anything about HD DVD outselling BD. :confused: Your rationale stating that the between four bills, and two is an irrelevancy, flies in the face of nearly every historical consumer product precedent. The iPod has become a branding fashion accessory; iTunes has a very broad selection, and is geared to a specific product line.

I didn't say anything about HD DVD outselling BD. :confused: Your rationale stating that the between four bills, and two is an irrelevancy, flies in the face of nearly every historical consumer product precedent. The iPod has become a branding fashion accessory; iTunes has a very broad selection, and is geared to a specific product line.

You're still not understanding.

For a product you want, $200 is much more attractive than $400.

For a product you don't want, it doesn't mean a thing.

Now, over the past couple of months HD DVD players have gone from $500, to $400, to $300, and now even lower still... and in this time the demand has not appreciably gained traction.

So what I am suggesting, is not that consumers care not whether they spend $200 vs $400 for a product, but that if said product has already lowered in price by your "two bills" amount, and demand has not spiked as a result, that I doubt whether an additional $100 off would be the catalyst for anything major; the lack of interest stems from something other than price alone.

So little so late?

HD DVD has been out a year and could not hit the disc sales that Blu Ray has achieved in the 6 months that the PS3 has been on the scene.

The PS3 had an effect and PS3 owners will continue to buy movies. Never said anything about it. Sony plan with the PS3 wasn't to reach parity with HD DVD but instead to end the war absolutely and completely. The PS3 originally was going to be released 3 months earlier. It also was going to sell 2 million units in US at launch, 6 million within the qtr and 12-15 million units within a year.

Had the PS3 launched on time and in the qty Sony predicted then BD would be outselling HD DVD by 10:1 by now. The gap would continue to widen every week as another 200K-300K PS3 are sold.

That didn't happen and now even if the PS3 sells 15 million by end of 2008 everyone known 1 PS3 < 1 standalone in software sales. So 15 million PS3 plus a negligible # of BD standalones can likely be countered by about 3 million HD DVD players. Now Wallmart is planning on selling 2 million low end players through end of 2008. Figure if Toshiba can sell another 1-2 million we are looking as near equal software sales through 2008.

Maybe BD will pull ahead; maybe HD DVD will pull ahead; maybe both will remain a niche product. What ever happens we likely are looking at a stalemate through 2007 and most of 2008. In the short term will BD outsell HD DVD? Sure. Will it be large enough numbers to cause the war to end? 100% No.

This is why you are going to see continued erosion of the BD Alliance. Sony promised the PS3 would be a magic bullet to end the war and it didn't.
Too little, too late.

You're still not understanding.

For a product you want, $200 is much more attractive than $400.

For a product you don't want, it doesn't mean a thing.

No, you're still not getting it. Consumers are much more likely to purchase a product about which they might have some reservations if it's priced at $200, than they are if it's priced at $400. ;)

No, you're still not getting it. Consumers are much more likely to purchase a product about which they might have some reservations if it's priced at $200, than they are if it's priced at $400. ;)

Rto, read the rest of my post.

Now, over the past couple of months HD DVD players have gone from $500, to $400, to $300, and now even lower still... and in this time the demand has not appreciably gained traction.

So what I am suggesting, is not that consumers care not whether they spend $200 vs $400 for a product, but that if said product has already lowered in price by your "two bills" amount, and demand has not spiked as a result, that I doubt whether an additional $100 off would be the catalyst for anything major; the lack of interest stems from something other than price alone.

There's a world of difference between having to search online to find the best price on a product from an unknown or unfamiliar entity, and walking into the electronics section of your local Wal Mart, and impulse purchasing something you can easily return. Further, there's a clear inconsistency between arguing that consumers may have reservations about a product, and an expectation that they'd nonetheless spend time researching the best price for it. ;) > $200, is a pivotal pricing threshold in consumer psychology.

For the record I never said reservations, I said lack of interest; you changed my word choice to 'reservations,' which you should know carries an inherent weight to it much different than that used by myself. ;)

That said, in the case of the 'reserved' individual, I do actually think that Internet research is the natural course for them to take - they want to educate themselves before they make the plunge. Hell, how many people join this forum every week on that exact premise?

So - I grant you the impulse buy factor. What level of factor that can actually be for a generic brand name product supporting a niche technology I don't know; up to Wal-Mart's sales team to determine I guess.

Everything else aside, we'll just have to wait and see what demand for HD DVD at $200 actually is among the public at large.

I think TDK's support to BD was always based on likelyhood of their hard coat becoming mandatory. But it didn't. So I don't think TDK cares much ...Isn't it mandatory?

Isn't it mandatory?

Hard coating is mandatory - and they all use it - however it's not Durabis that's getting used but alternative in-house developed coatings.

Isn't it mandatory?

Hard coating is mandatory - but not TDK's. So unless a replicator decides to use TDK's expensive version (durabis) they don't make any money.

Hard coating is mandatory - but not TDK's. So unless a replicator decides to use TDK's expensive version (durabis) they don't make any money.Huh? Durabis is just the brand name for their patented technology. Don't write your assumption like a fact.

The point is TDK's hard coat technology isn't being used outside of their own writeable disc offerings.

Huh? Durabis is just the brand name for their patented technology. Don't write your assumption like a fact.

What did I write that is not a fact ?

For the record I never said reservations, I said lack of interest; you changed my word choice to 'reservations,' which you should know carries an inherent weight to it much different than that used by myself. ;


Now that I've looked, I see that you actually said "don't want." I suppose there isn't much point in discussing sales of products to people who don't want them.....

I just saw in TWICE today that Onkyo announced a HD DVD player

I just saw in TWICE today that Onkyo announced a HD DVD player

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6436066.html


In other product developments, Onkyo USA unveiled one new Onkyo-brand DVD player and three Onkyo-brand HTiBs, said it is reevaluating its Onkyo-brand DVD strategy, and is on track to offer its first HD DVD player later this year. It will carry the Onkyo brand name.

I just saw in TWICE today that Onkyo announced a HD DVD player

That's impossible, because no one is going to make HD DVD players since Toshiba is selling at a loss.... and who can compete with those Chinese Wal-mart specials...

For a product you want, $200 is much more attractive than $400.

For a product you don't want, it doesn't mean a thing.

Now, over the past couple of months HD DVD players have gone from $500, to $400, to $300, and now even lower still... and in this time the demand has not appreciably gained traction.
I agree with your point but would just like to extend it by adding:
For a product you are unaware of, price has no effect.

In the U.S., want and ignorance are a significant distinction separated by a fine line. This is a line marketing aims to help you cross. An end cap playing King Kong on a $250 machine would be potent marketing. And this scenario would cater to the impulsiveness of the American consumer.
And to the second point. While demand for standalone HD DVD players has not apparently gained in correspondence with price decrease, it hasn't fallen. New consumers have been steadily drawn to HD DVD and certainly many are not A/V Fanatics.

That's impossible, because no one is going to make HD DVD players since Toshiba is selling at a loss.... and who can compete with those Chinese Wal-mart specials...

thats crazy cause who could compete with the PS3 which sony is selling at a loss. sony is the perfect company for audio/visual. they give you the ability to do everything including playing games in one unit. Why would anyone buy anything else? why would i get a pioneer for 1500 when i can get a ps3 that has a better picture plays games connects to the net ect. All these other companies really need to just give it up and let sony dominate like they should. those other companies are not needed.

thats crazy cause who could compete with the PS3 which sony is selling at a loss. sony is the perfect company for audio/visual. they give you the ability to do everything including playing games in one unit. Why would anyone buy anything else? why would i get a pioneer for 1500 when i can get a ps3 that has a better picture plays games connects to the net ect. All these other companies really need to just give it up and let sony dominate like they should. those other companies are not needed.


Hardy-har-har. Sorry, not a gamer, I don't want to pay Sony for a game counsel that doesn't up convert, stack, has regional encoding, and looks like the answering machine I had in 1983 ;)

That's impossible, because no one is going to make HD DVD players since Toshiba is selling at a loss.... and who can compete with those Chinese Wal-mart specials...

Not really, I bought a Pioneer Elite DVD player for $400+ bucks this year. I wanted a really solid player, I have a $2000 DVDO, why pump a $40 DVD player into it?

Hardy-har-har. Sorry, not a gamer, I don't want to pay Sony for a game counsel that doesn't up convert, stack, has regional encoding, and looks like the answering machine I had in 1983 ;)

Upconvert is coming. The cost ratio of this one unit beats everything on the market at this time. I even heard they have stolen all the ideas from the wii to include in this one unit called PS3. Why would i spend 3 times as much on a panny when i could have this unit? panny, pioneer, samsung and the rest of them just need to stop producing units. Sony has the ability to make the media, the movies, the games, the blank media, the computer drives, the receiver for audio, and the tv to watch it on. What does panny and pioneer do? oh they made a dvd player and a receiver. oh i forgot they make a tv too im so impressed.


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

^^^ you guys are forgetting the :rolleyes: on your posts. Remember we do have sarcasm impaired people reading here. ;)