Hi. I'm interested in getting 1080p projector in the $3000 price range. Since both the Panasonic 1000u and the Epson PowerLite Home are in that range, which would be better? I've read reviews of both, and both seem to have separate strengths. Overall, which would give me the best picture quality from 18 feet on a 110" screen?

Thanks.

I haven't personally seen the Panasonic, but if it's anything like it's 720p brethren, I would advise you to stick with the Epson. The smoothscreen feature was useful on their 720p models (despite it softening the picture to an unacceptable degree), but after watching the Epson for 2 days now I can honestly say there is NO pixelation whatsoever. And judging from reviews, the Epson, Mits, and Panny are all pretty much on the same level.

Yeah, I've heard they are pretty similar, except the Mits and Panny have better black levels while the Epson is brighter. The problem is I can't decide what would be better for my room. (dark, 18' throw, 106-110" screen)

I just bought the Epson, so I am biased, but one important thing to me... I hate rebates!

Buy the Epson. I have heard the Panasonic has had reliability issues and also problems with getting the rebates back. I believe the Epson has newer LCD panels as well. The image it throws is remarkable.

Plus with your 18 foot throw, you'll need the extra lumens. I throw from 17 feet onto a 134" screen and the Epson fills it wonderfully. Click on my home theater link in the sig for pics of the Espon in action.

This might not be much, but Art from Projectorreviews saw both the AE1000 and Epson 1080 on his screen, and concluded that the Epson 1080 is the best LCD projector till date.

A quick breakdown.

Epson
Better reliability people seem to say
Brighter
No rebate

Panasonic
Power zoom and focus
Now with 3year warranty (part of the mail in rebate?)
Better black level
Stretch mode for CIH. I only mention this because if I could afford a 1080P this is probably the one I would buy for this reason. If not for this I would buy the Epson. (darnit I wish I had another $1000 to spend :))

I am pretty sure I read they have the same LCD panels and several reviews seem to think the smooth screen works fine and that it is really sharp still.

A quick breakdown.

Epson
Better reliability people seem to say
Brighter
No rebate

Panasonic
Power zoom and focus
Now with 3year warranty (part of the mail in rebate?)
Better black level
Stretch mode for CIH. I only mention this because if I could afford a 1080P this is probably the one I would buy for this reason. If not for this I would buy the Epson. (darnit I wish I had another $1000 to spend :))

I am pretty sure I read they have the same LCD panels and several reviews seem to think the smooth screen works fine and that it is really sharp still.

Jim,

The AE1000U, although it does have good black levels, it isn't better then 1080 IMO. Not from what I saw anyways.

As for the zoom, the Espon starts with the widest range zoom lens around 2.1:1. Now although it's flexibility isn't that much better then some other LCD models, it still is the most flexible out of the bunch.

In terms of warranty, the Home Cinema version comes with 2 years which includes overnight replacement program; And the Pro Cinema comes with 3 years which also includes overnight replacement program.

In additon to that, It's brighter than the competition, but it does lack vertical stretch.

I have heard the Panasonic has had reliability issues
the traditionc ontinues from the 100 to 1000. :rolleyes:

I think I will probably go with the Epson because I can actually go see it in a showroom around here. Also, the Deep Color functions may help later on (I'm getting the Onkyo 605 which has 1.3a). The extra lumens seem to help out a lot since my throw is pretty large. The only thing I would have liked is power zoom, which would have made adjustments a lot simpler. Oh well, for $3000 you can't have it all.

Jim,

In terms of warranty, the Home Cinema version comes with 2 years which includes overnight replacement program; And the Pro Cinema comes with 3 years which also includes overnight replacement program.

In additon to that, It's brighter than the competition, but it does lack vertical stretch.

Depending on where you buy right now the Epson Home 1080 comes with 6 year or 5 year warranty and 2 years on the lamp.

My Epson 1080 will arrive this coming week. Since I already own the Lumagen ProHDP I'll use it for the vertical scaling to 2.35:1 CH and Panamorph UH380 Lens for the stretch. If I didn't own the Lumagen I would have gone for either the Panny 1000 or Benq W9000. But the deal on the Epson 1080 was too good to pass up and I didn't feel like trying to sell the Lumagen anyway.

Depending on where you buy right now the Epson Home 1080 comes with 6 year or 5 year warranty and 2 years on the lamp.

My Epson 1080 will arrive this coming week. Since I already own the Lumagen ProHDP I'll use it for the vertical scaling to 2.35:1 CH and Panamorph UH380 Lens for the stretch. If I didn't own the Lumagen I would have gone for either the Panny 1000 or Benq W9000. But the deal on the Epson 1080 was too good to pass up and I didn't feel like trying to sell the Lumagen anyway.
The Lumagen's are good processors. I've played around with a few of them and really like them.

Gotta know what you're doing though IMO. They're not quite as user friendly as others, but I still like them a lot.

I've got my eye on their new RadianceXD, which I'll be uprading to from my current VP50.

Check out the reviews at www.projectorreviews.com. IMHO, the Epson is the better buy. Both will easily handle the 18' throw, but the Epson will do a lot better on a 110" screen.

You should check out ChrisW6ATV's comments on the Epson 1080 thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10364636&&#post10364636.

In addition, Epson is using their D6 panels (with their C2Fine technology). No information is posted on which panels Panasonic is using (they buy them from Epson).

Panasonic must really be feeling the heat, with their sudden posting of a huge rebate (and increased warranty length) to bring them into line with Epson.

Panasonic has also pulled some fast ones on some AVS members regarding warranty claims.

As far as I'm concerned, Panasonic's last really good PJ was their PT-AE300/L300U model, vintage 2002. They've been playing catch-up ever since.

I haven't bought either, but I thought I should respond to some comments for Panasonic:

1) Softening by Smoothscreen: PC found both HD and DVD to be very sharp on the Panny; it's DVD sharpness beat out everyone else.

2) The Warranty on the Pan (until 4/30) is 3 years. I do not know it it has Epson's same day policy.

3) The LCD panels in the Pan are D6 with C2Fine, same as the Epson. (Source: Panasonic Brochure on 1000.)

4) The Panny rebate form states that the rebates take 8 to 14 weeks to process, meaning you may get it after 14 weeks.

5) Art did NOT conclude that the Epson was the best LCD to date. "Between the three low cost LCD 1080p projectors, AND TAKING PRICE INTO CONSIDERATION [emphasis added], I would have to pick the Epson as my first choice. I realize that the Panasonic...[has] some strengths that the Epson can't match, but Epson has more than enough of [its] own strengths to make it a great choice." When Art wrote that, the MSRP on the Pan was $4k, but is now $3k (until 4/30).

6) I know Evan Powell is not held in the highest regard here, but when he optomized the two projs., he measured 370 lumens on the Epson, and 500 lumens on the Pan. He also noted that the Epson's "contrast is a little bit short".

If I were buying a proj. before 4/30, I would get the Panny. Assuming the price on the Panny goes back to $4k on 5/1, I would get the Epson.

No, I do not work for Matsushita Electronics or any of its divisions. No, I have never seen either projector in use. (I believe it's best to chose projectors on the basis of reviews rather than to muddle your mind with demos. Joke) No, I am not in the market for a 1080p projector. I have a IF 7210 w/100" screen and a viewing distance of 14". I wouldn't see the difference that far away.

Art DID conclude the Epson had the best LCD pic to date...aside from the pic/price he didn't conclude it best OVERALL. :rolleyes:

If a company starts screwing with it's warranties to cover it's inferior products' tails then avoid them!(my advice) :D

Here is exactly what Art said about the 1080p LCDs:

Let's start with the Home Cinema 1080, since that's the only one I actually got to play with. I am impressed. Of the three 1080p LCD projectors, this is my new favorite. The Panasonic may have a pixel structure that is for all practical purposes invisible, and has some great features built in for optimizing its performance, and the Mitsubishi, does give the feeling of being slightly sharper, whether or not it resolves any more detail, plus the Mitsubishi is super quiet. The Epson is the noisiest of the three, by the way.

Still, the Home Cinema 1080 has a killer list of strengths, the most significant are:

It's brighter than the competition.
It's the most flexible (although not by much compared to the other 2 LCD models).
It's out of the box colors are pretty impressive, as is black level performance.
It's got a great warranty, and support program.
And, if that weren't enough - it costs less than any other 1080p projector at the time of this writing (4/07).

My quote came from the Summary portion of Art's review. The sentence immediately preceding my quote is:
"THE FINAL WORD IS SIMPLY THIS."

QED

"If I were buying a proj. before 4/30, I would get the Panny. Assuming the price on the Panny goes back to $4k on 5/1, I would get the Epson."

Once panasonic starts a warranty, you can expect it to be extended pretty much forever, until the price itself is dropped.

6) I know Evan Powell is not held in the highest regard here, but when he optomized the two projs., he measured 370 lumens on the Epson, and 500 lumens on the Pan. He also noted that the Epson's "contrast is a little bit short".


Robert, the Epson is on avg 40% brighter than the Panny in their respective modes.

Both have a cinema filter in certain modes which cuts brightness but increases contrast. You've taken projector central's nbrs on the Epson at 370 lumens with the cinema filter in the light path and compared it to projector central's Panny nbrs of 500 in Cinema 3 mode that does not have the filter in the light path. Obviously you need to compare lumens in their relative modes.

According to Projector central's nbrs on both projectors;

Cinema modes (with filter in path), lamp on high, wide angle zoom.
Epson HD(Theater Black 1) = 370 lumens
Panny Cinema 1 & 2 = 250 lumens

Cinema modes (without filter in path) lamp on high, wide angle zoom.
Epson Cinema Day = 650 lumens
Panny Cinema 3 = 500 lumens

Brightest modes, lamp on high, wide angle zoom.
Epson Vivid (Dynamic) = 1292 lumens
Panny Dynamic = 900 lumens


According to Art's at projector review's numbers on both the Epson and Panasonic in their best modes, which for the Panny is Cinema1 and for the Epson is TheaterBlack1.

Panny AE1000U
The Cinema 1 mode comes across as the best preset mode for movie watching. In full power mode, we measured an expectedly not very bright 295 lumens. Drop into low power, and lumens drop to 236, an almost perfect 20% drop.

Epson 1080
Theater Black 1 mode (which I used for most movie watching): 597 lumens with lamp on high. With lamp on low (default for Theater Dark 1), 460 lumens, or about 23% dimmer.


In their respective Dynamic/brightest modes;

Panny AE1000U
Jumping to the other end of the spectrum is the Dynamic mode, where the Panasonic actually cranks out a fair amount of lumens for handling ambient light (especially for TV/sports). Although still no match for the brightest 720p projectors which are now putting out around 1500-2000 lumens in their very brightest mode.

The Panasonic output a respectable 844 lumens. Of course like any other projector, the color balance in brightest mode is compromised to best fight ambient light.


Epson 1080
Finally, Dynamic mode. Not the best color at all (as expected) and very, very heavy on green, (you probably should reduce the green somewhat, to have a more enjoyable picture, at the expense of some but not a big drop in lumens. Dynamic mode yielded a whopping 1685 lumens

In Art's own words;

Epson earns a WOW. The other two popular 1080p home theater projectors - the Pansonic PT-AE1000U and Mitsubishi HC5000, are considered to be a bit below average in brightness, compared with most home theater projectors (all resolutions). Those two are not as bright as either of the two LCOS and two DLP projectors I have also reviewed. The Epson's though are really bright.


...the Epson delivers, by far the brightest of the 1080p projectors I am aware of, under $10K, and, at least the Home Cinema version is under $3000.

Looks like both reviews agree that the Epson is significantly brighter than the Panny.

Joe

...If I were buying a proj. before 4/30, I would get the Panny. Assuming the price on the Panny goes back to $4k on 5/1, I would get the Epson.



First let me say right out that I am a happy owner of an Epson 500
who is in the early stages of a move to upgrade. As such my bias will
no doubt color what I am about to say. Therefore take it with a healthy
dose of caution.

In the five years that I have been reading here I would say that Epson has generally had the better pj in virtually all of the generations. However, with the exception of the Cinema 400 vs Panasonic AE100, the Epsons have always had a price premium. I have seen the AE1000U and for the price (with rebate) it is very nice. Still, I would need some serious convincing that without a price advantage I should even think about the Panny over the Epson (which at this point I have not seen). For one thing, I am not a fan of smoothscreen. It does what it is intended to do but there is an intangible to the Panny's picture that is not to my taste. For me if I want less pixel structure I would look to LCOS despite its higher cost. Real or imaginary, there is also a comfort that comes from owning pj that the manufacturer will stand behind if an issue arises.

I should say that one thing I do like about the Panny is power zoom. I use this feature all of the time particularly when channel surfing from HD to SD during the hockey season. I wish Epson had kept this feature.

So far no one has made any comments about the very fine review the Panasonic received from Tom Norton of Ultimate A/V:

http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/307panaptae/

Having read both Art's and Evan's reviews slowly in their entirity, I concur that the Epson is better than the Panny at any price because of brightness. Much of this is above. I have added test results from my own InFocus 7210, which add to that conclusion

Both can put out high lumens in modes that look crappy. Epson=Vivid @ 1292 L.
Panny=Dynamic @ 900 L. What counts are the good looking modes.

EVAN: In the case of the Epson, the HD (TB1) color Mode, with the proj. at widest angle (closest to screen), in High Light yielded 370 L. In the case of the Panasonic, the Cinema 1 mode (considered best w/Color 1 by all reviewers), with the projector at widest angle, in High Light yielded 250 L. My "light cannon" InFocus 7210, in low light at 6500 degrees in Cinema Mode is only slightly brighter than the Epson at 400 L..

ART: Same modes as Evan. Panasonic: 295L in High Light; 236 L in Low Light. Epson: 597 in High LIght; 460 in Low Light. Both of the Epson lumens blow away my 7210.

QUERY: For the Panny Evan got 250L and Art got 295L. Pretty close. For the Epson, Evan got 370L, and Art got 597L!!!! Not close at all. Can anyone explain the discrepancy?

In Ultimate A/V, they tested the IF 7210 and Panny under identical conditions with the same 1.3 gain screen. Using a peak 100% white field, the 7210 yielded 29.22 fL. The Panny was 12.8 fL,, less than half the IF.

Having gotten used to the brightness of the IF 7200, 7205, and 7210, if I had gotten a Panny, I would have been crying my eyes out. What good is a sharper, dimmer picture?

As for the claims that the Epson is weak on contrast, my IF 7210 only has 1044:1 peak contrast (Ultimate A/V), and I have no complaints. Both the Panny and Epson crush the IF, so such claims about the Epson fall on deaf ears with me.

There are now plenty of reviews of the Panny out, but only two for the Epson. It will be interesting to compare the reviews as more come out on the Epson.

Though not in the market for a 1080p proj (well, maybe now), there is no doubt in my mind that the Epson is far better than the Panny.
The only other proj. worth considering at this point is the 2x as much JVC.

I hope I have atoned for my manifold sins and wickedness.

FreemontRich-

That's the problem when you only have one review by a reviewer or magazine. The Perfect Vision also gave a glowing review of the Panny, but none yet on the Epson. Wait until Norton's review of the Epson comes out, and then contrast them.

The reviews by Art and Evan of the Panny were equally glowing...until they reviewed the Epson. In the post above, I used the Ultimate A/V reviews of the IF 7210 and Panny, and Evan's Reviews of the IF 7210, Panny and Epson, and Art's reviews of the Panny and Epson to reach my conclusions as the IF 7210 is a known quantity for me.

To compare reviews of two different projectors in two different magazines is mixing apples and oranges. To decide between two projector by relying on one review in a magazine or web site without the other being reviewed in the same place is to decide in a partial vacuum

Robert: Thanks for posting all the great summarized information. I'm stepping up to a 1080p PJ (from the Panny PT-AX100U) and I already have the Epson on order (shipped yesterday in fact)...and having all th eabove information posted here on the forum will surely help a ton of folks out. Kudos.

Can't wait to get my Epson :)

Yeah, generally it seems everyone prefers the brighter, potentially better reliable, HDMI 1.3 Epson.

FreemontRich-

That's the problem when you only have one review by a reviewer or magazine. The Perfect Vision also gave a glowing review of the Panny, but none yet on the Epson. Wait until Norton's review of the Epson comes out, and then contrast them.

The reviews by Art and Evan of the Panny were equally glowing...until they reviewed the Epson. In the post above, I used the Ultimate A/V reviews of the IF 7210 and Panny, and Evan's Reviews of the IF 7210, Panny and Epson, and Art's reviews of the Panny and Epson to reach my conclusions as the IF 7210 is a known quantity for me.

To compare reviews of two different projectors in two different magazines is mixing apples and oranges. To decide between two projector by relying on one review in a magazine or web site without the other being reviewed in the same place is to decide in a partial vacuum



I've never claimed that the Panasonic was better than the Epson or the reverse. But I see you've already decided the Epson is better even before seeing these projectors for yourself... huh? :rolleyes:

I would put as much credence to Tom Norton's review in judging whether the Panasonic is worthy of consideration.

Just for kicks, I emailed one of the AVS merchants, about the InFocus 7210 Vs. the Panny on this issue. The reply:
"The IF has the same lumens as the Panny. The Panny will appear brighter than the IF. LCD always appears brighter than DLP."

Comments.

In all candor, of the many CRT and DLP projs. I have owned, I have never seen one demoed. I have bought on the basis of reviews and especially AVS comments.
Unlike speakers, which are a matter of personal taste, even though there are objective standards,

I view projectors as not being a matter of personal preference, unless you're really found of garish, crappy pictures. I believe you can choose between two projectors by comparing reviews of the two projectors from the same sources.

Almost no place has facilities for A/B projectors, they may be set up poorly by the store, and visual memory (going from one store to another) is even shorter than audio memory.

I know the overwhelming majority will disagree with my approach. But how many of you have bought Rockets, Axioms, or Outlaw unheard?

In all candor, of the many CRT and DLP projs. I have owned, I have never seen one demoed. I have bought on the basis of reviews and especially AVS comments.
Unlike speakers, which are a matter of personal taste, even though there are objective standards,

I wholeheartedly agree. All of my big purchases (Speakers, Amps, Display devices, etc.) were always sight unseen, based on a consensus of glowing reviews from many trusted places on the internet. This approach has yet to fail me (knock on wood).

I agree. Where I live it is difficult to find the under $3k projectors on display. Sure -- Best Buy and Circuit City have a few XGA models on display, but none of the more popular models that you read about on this forum.

In all candor, of the many CRT and DLP projs. I have owned, I have never seen one demoed. I have bought on the basis of reviews and especially AVS comments.
Unlike speakers, which are a matter of personal taste, even though there are objective standards,

I view projectors as not being a matter of personal preference, unless you're really found of garish, crappy pictures. I believe you can choose between two projectors by comparing reviews of the two projectors from the same sources.

Almost no place has facilities for A/B projectors, they may be set up poorly by the store, and visual memory (going from one store to another) is even shorter than audio memory.

I know the overwhelming majority will disagree with my approach. But how many of you have bought Rockets, Axioms, or Outlaw unheard?



I also have never auditioned the Mitsubishi HC3000U (or any of the other projectors I considered purchasing) before I bought the Mits. It was recommended to me by Jason of AVS (I wanted to purchase the BenQ PE7700 but he said the Mits was better). However, I did research the various projectors and agreed to try the Mits, which by the way is a wonderful projector and I've never regretted the purchase. But I never entertained the idea that the Mits was superior to any of the candidates I was considering because I didn't see it in action.

Just found this thread.
My Panny 1000 arrives next week.

1.) Cinemascope is important to me so vertical stretch is great
2.) If this is the same Epson that makes printers, I can't imagine trusting my HD image to them
3.) Rebates are easy and I'll be getting $1000 back
4.) Not worried about brightness. My Silverstar makes anything bright