At a press conference yesterday, held at it’s New Jersey headquarters, Onkyo seemed to back track a bit from it’s plans to sell an HD DVD player in 2007.

and

(Onkyo is) rethinking it’s decision of which format to back.

Anyway an interesting read, even though its short.

Looks like Onkyo may release a dual format player or Blu-ray player, but there will be no "HD-DVD only" player after all.

Interesting this hasn't worked out even after the big announcement at CES2007.

Seems like maybe the Wal-mart story should also be taken with a grain of salt until Wal-mart officially confirms.

Actually if the Wal-mart player was $299 and dual-format, even I'll admit that would be awesome. I'd buy one. :)

http://www.e-gear.com/story/story.bsp?sid=53628&var=story


----edit----

Looks like Fu Yuan has retracted the Wal-Mart story and Wal-Mart has now issued a denial of the story as well. Currently there is no official evidence for for a Wal-Mart player at all. Looks like my advice above to take that story with a grain of salt was good advice. ;)

And the red vs. blue battle begins in 3....2....1.....

I don't think they are backing away from the possibility of releasing an HD DVD player, just considering other options. Most likely, this was just a talking point used by Toshiba during CES, and they have been considering both formats for a while.

Looks like Onkyo may release a dual format player or Blu-ray player, but there will be no "HD-DVD only" player after all.


How on earth do you get to that assumption from the press conference article they're referencing???

http://www.e-gear.com/story/story.bsp?sid=53599&var=story&publication=E-Gear&publicationDate=4/25/07&slug=EGL0425onkyo&category=None&section=Unknown&swd=onkyo

At CES 2007, it had announced its intent to introduce an HD DVD model, but Haas said that the company is “looking at both [the HD DVD and Blu-ray] formats” currently, and deciding whether to field either a standalone player or a multiple-format model. He added that a market entry could surface “probably closer to the fourth quarter.”

That could mean an HD DVD standalone, a BD standalone, both or a dual-format player but nowhere does it even imply in the slightest that there will be no HD DVD standalone. The sensationalism is getting out of hand...

the title of the article is:

"Onkyo May Back Out of HD DVD"

Titles to articles mean nothing as anyone who reads a newspaper should know by now. Read the article, not the headline! THey are often times written by different individuals for different purposes. Jeez.

I guess good news for blu-ray. Although this won't change anything in my opinion. Thats one less slow, glitchy hddvd player on the market.

may

1. (used to express possibility): It may rain.




no

1. (a negative used to express dissent, denial, or refusal, as in response to a question or request)
2. (used to emphasize or introduce a negative statement)

In any case, when a news article provides a link it's directly referencing, you're supposed to read the original piece to get the full story!

It is the idiot from Egear words not the Onkyo rep: click on the press conference link, here is exactly what is said and nothing more:

Onkyo also announced a new single-disc DVD player, DV-SP405 with 1080p upscaling capability, but it had no further information on when it might enter the high-definition DVD player arena. At CES 2007, it had announced its intent to introduce an HD DVD model, but Haas said that the company is “looking at both [the HD DVD and Blu-ray] formats” currently, and deciding whether to field either a standalone player or a multiple-format model. He added that a market entry could surface “probably closer to the fourth quarter.”

NOTHING, ZIPPO, that suggests they are thinking of backing out of HD DVD, the egearare guy should re name his article, looks like good old Grant is in need of attention.

Why should someone who does not have IP in a format be exlusive? I've been saying dual format players will be the norm for awhile now :)

Dual format is good news for HD DVD. FWIW.

Why should someone who does not have IP in a format be exlusive? I've been saying dual format players will be the norm for awhile now :)

Dual format is good news for HD DVD. FWIW.

Dual format players are not the norm and won't be until they are much, much, much less expensive...and I doubt HD-DVD can survive that long. We'll see though...

and

Anyway an interesting read, even though its short.

Looks like Onkyo may release a dual format player or Blu-ray player, but there will be no "HD-DVD only" player after all.

Interesting this hasn't worked out even after the big announcement at CES2007.


http://www.e-gear.com/story/story.bsp?sid=53628&var=story
Always interesting how an inaccurate spin is put on these stories.

The article you linked, by Grant Clauser, he quotes Onkyo on something then drops the quotes for his own embellishment "rethinking". Not at all in keeping what was said in the and

Anyway an interesting read, even though its short.

Looks like Onkyo may release a dual format player or Blu-ray player, but there will be no "HD-DVD only" player after all.

Interesting this hasn't worked out even after the big announcement at CES2007.


http://www.e-gear.com/story/story.bsp?sid=53628&var=story ([QUOTE=krinkle)[/QUOTE]
Always interesting how an inaccurate spin is put on these stories.

The article you linked, by Grant Clauser, he quotes Onkyo on something then drops the quotes for his own embellishment "rethinking".

Then krinkles post here says "but there will be no HD DVD only player after all", which is also a false statement of fact.

It is fairly widely known that Onkyo is an HD DVD supporter. Any smart company would be looking at Hybrid players right now, so ]REAL story he was quoting from.

Then krinkles post here says "but there will be no HD DVD only player after all", which is also a false statement of fact.

It is fairly widely known that Onkyo is an HD DVD supporter. Any smart company would be looking at Hybrid players right now, so Onkyo doing so would hardly be a negative for HD DVD considering they haven't yet been on the market.

Unlike LG and Samsung battling out of their BD only position against some quite considerable apparent animosity from the BD camp.

Very different. And having a high-end hybrid solution from someone like Onkyo or Denon would not be bad for HD DVD at all - only bad for those expensive featureless, incompatible Bluray players currently selling at silly prices :)

And it does not preclude Onkyo from offering a value HD DVD only solution, either.

Makes perfect sense to me. Let's look at the current situation.

- Leaks of a big low end HD DVD push by Wally's
- Format war shows no signs of abating soon (the death blow failed)

Now let's look at Onkyo's position, they's like to make some money.

- How can I compete against $199 HD DVD players (don't want to)
- Don't want to cut off one side of the market

Okay - dual player it is. The upper end is wide open, best competition are expensive BD only players.

Makes perfect business sense that they would look at all the options.

I can hear HD-DVD fan boys gasping.
Quite the contrary - the only ones who are getting screwed at the moment are the standalone BD players. The PS3 sales are flat & the attachment isn't what they hoped. This means all CEs are realizing that the war won't end soon (or ever).

Note: this is NOT a knock on the PS3. This is a simple normal cycle. They've sold to most of those willing to buy in @ $600, the next round will be when the cuts occur = more sales. This is a typical console sales cycle. I'm not knocking the cycle nor the number sold.

Dual format players are not the norm and won't be until they are much, much, much less expensive...and I doubt HD-DVD can survive that long. We'll see though...

Yes we will Kreskin ;)

I'd prefer that Onkyo make a Universal player. I've been thinking and stating this for a while. My reasoning is simple. They make some step up DVD product that supports DVD-Audio and SACD. I see the natural progression of their product line moving to HD DVD/Blu-ray/DVD-A/SACD and toss in Divx 6 support FTW.

The thing is it doesn't matter about cost as long as they can be contained within reason for the target demographics. Denon still sells $800 DVD players because some people are willing to pay more for a solid product.

Onkyo should focus on delivering value add product. Give us the do everything optical player some of us crave. The lowend market is already taken care of.

Makes perfect sense to me. Let's look at the current situation.

- Leaks of a big low end HD DVD push by Wally's
- Format war shows no signs of abating soon (the death blow failed)

Now let's look at Onkyo's position, they's like to make some money.

- How can I compete against $199 HD DVD players (don't want to)
- Don't want to cut off one side of the market

Okay - dual player it is. The upper end is wide open, best competition are expensive BD only players.

Makes perfect business sense that they would look at all the options.


Quite the contrary - the only ones who are getting screwed at the moment are the standalone BD players. The PS3 sales are flat & the attachment isn't what they hoped. This means all CEs are realizing that the war won't end soon (or ever).

Note: this is NOT a knock on the PS3. This is a simple normal cycle. They've sold to most of those willing to buy in @ $600, the next round will be when the cuts occur = more sales. This is a typical console sales cycle. I'm not knocking the cycle nor the number sold.

So, you're saying that you believe that Walmart nonsense??? Does that story make any sense to you.

So, you're saying that you believe that Walmart nonsense??? Does that story make any sense to you.
Of course it does but then I'm not a zealot & I don't give a tinker's damn which format wins.

Okay, I'll change my post to "Sony rulz, the PS3 so pwns!" ....better?

Of course it does but then I'm not a zealot & I don't give a tinker's damn which format wins.

Okay, I'll change my post to "Sony rulz, the PS3 so pwns!" ....better?

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/04/24/hd-dvd-camp-unable-to-confirm-wal-mart-hd-dvd-player/

Rethinking? So what, this is basically like Samsung saying "hmm, maybe we should release a dual format player"

Onkyo will probably release both

Dual format players are not the norm and won't be until they are much, much, much less expensive...and I doubt HD-DVD can survive that long. We'll see though...

Indeed, HD DVD dies every January, like clockwork.

fa,

what point are you trying to prove with the Endgadget linK? That no one has said anything. Like I said in a different thread, Samsung completely denied any HD plans and pledged 100% comittment to BD at CEBIT this year, and then announced a Universal player a month later.

fa,

what point are you trying to prove with the Endgadget linK? That no one has said anything. Like I said in a different thread, Samsung completely denied any HD plans and pledged 100% comittment to BD at CEBIT this year, and then announced a Universal player a month later.

Remember the nonsense about Disney and others going neutral at CES 2007?

I remember the "big shakeup" at Universal meant it was going neutral a few months ago....

Tu quoque. Way to go, skogan... not. :mad:

I hope they come out with a full featured dual format player for under $1000.

FA,

Remember the nonsense about Disney and others going neutral at CES 2007?

Do YOU remember the following nonesense

Universal is going neutral because they didn’t make any announcements at CES
Universal is going neutral because they pulled the HD DVD section of their web page
Universal is going neutral because they are looking at BD-J
HD DVD is dead because one Blockbuster increased the size of their BD section
HD DVD is dead because one Walmart stopped carrying HD DVD
HD DVD is dead because one CC store has a prominent BD display and the HD display is hidden
HD DVD is dead because Microsoft said they would offer a solution for whatever format wins
HD DVD is dead because Microsoft didn’t include an internal HD DVD drive in the new 360
HD DVD is dead because 471 of 725 people of an online poll said BD would win the format war.
HD DVD is dead because no reputable source has ever picked it to win.
HD DVD is dead because Sony claims it won
HD DVD is dead because Panasonic says BD will win

Tu quoque. Way to go, skogan... not. :mad:


What are you, the fallacy police? He's made this post in more than one thread now, and I wanted to point out that both sides have ran with wild rumors, so there's no reason to be flippant about it. If it's sauce for the goose, it's sauce for the gander.

BTW, what kind of fallicy do you think it was for him to bring up the Disney/ces 2007 rumors in this thread? Do you think the Disney rumors being wrong in any way makes this issue more or less likely to be true? Don't answer that - no, it doesn't. Now will you need to make a sarcastic post with the ": mad" symbol directed at him as well? I suspect you won't.

FA,



Do YOU remember the following nonesense

Universal is going neutral because they didn’t make any announcements at CES
Universal is going neutral because they pulled the HD DVD section of their web page
Universal is going neutral because they are looking at BD-J
HD DVD is dead because one Blockbuster increased the size of their BD section
HD DVD is dead because one Walmart stopped carrying HD DVD
HD DVD is dead because one CC store has a prominent BD display and the HD display is hidden
HD DVD is dead because Microsoft said they would offer a solution for whatever format wins
HD DVD is dead because Microsoft didn’t include an internal HD DVD drive in the new 360
HD DVD is dead because 471 of 725 people of an online poll said BD would win the format war.
HD DVD is dead because no reputable source has ever picked it to win.
HD DVD is dead because Sony claims it won
HD DVD is dead because Panasonic says BD will win

Wasn't HD DVD also suppose to be dead @ CES '06? lol

"
Onkyo also announced a new single-disc DVD player, DV-SP405 with 1080p upscaling capability, but it had no further information on when it might enter the high-definition DVD player arena. At CES 2007, it had announced its intent to introduce an HD DVD model, but Haas said that the company is “looking at both [the HD DVD and Blu-ray] formats” currently, and deciding whether to field either a standalone player or a multiple-format model. He added that a market entry could surface “probably closer to the fourth quarter.”"

Sounds like good news to me. I think more companies are going to be leaning toward combo players anyway, as there will never be a clear winner, and the only people that are going to buy them are HT enthusiasts. The Walmart deal still may change that, but I doubt it.

So, you're saying that you believe that Walmart nonsense??? Does that story make any sense to you.

fa8362: Can we get you to agree to destroy your BD player on YouTube if it turns out that the story isn't 'nonsense'? :p

Just sad, Krinkle.

Nice touch to throw in the Wal Mart FUD on top of this misinformation since the other thread was deleted.

Grubert, don't even bother.

IF Pio continues to be exclusive to BD, I would think that signals they are looking to be bought out by Sony - Sony does not do Plasma and Pio does not do LCD or DLP or PJ. Pio Elites would be a nice range to round off Sony line.

Any investment bankers working on a deal? Sony stock is rising and they could make the move....

Which would then mean that Panny would take the place of Pio as as Sony's' _ _ _ _ _ in the BD hardware side. Hence, why I think Panny isn't investing much in CE hardware for BD now.

Did I say, the Titanic was doing great until......:)

I see hybrids.......

IF Pio continues to be exclusive to BD, I would think that signals they are looking to be bought out by Sony - Sony does not do Plasma and Pio does not do LCD or DLP or PJ. Pio Elites would be a nice range to round off Sony line.

Any investment bankers working on a deal? Sony stock is rising and they could make the move....

Which would then mean that Panny would take the place of Pio as as Sony's' _ _ _ _ _ in the BD hardware side. Hence, why I think Panny isn't investing much in CE hardware for BD now.

Did I say, the Titanic was doing great until......:)

I see hybrids.......

Bluray and plasma sales are hurting Pioneer as far as I can tell. Sony has interest in Plasma, because they own more tech in LCD.

Now will you need to make a sarcastic post with the ": mad" symbol directed at him as well? I suspect you won't.

I'm not sure if he knows any better. But I know you do.

Sad state of affairs when formerly articulate debaters stoop to petty sniping.

I can hear HD-DVD fan boys gasping.

While those of us who are format neutral sigh once again after reading another boring attack on one side by a fellow member...

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/04/24/hd-dvd-camp-unable-to-confirm-wal-mart-hd-dvd-player/
Thanks, I missed the though discussion of this in the 50 some page thread :rolleyes:

At least less troll-inducing thread title than "TDK switches support".

I can hear HD-DVD fan boys gasping.It's one line comments like this without any contribution to the discussion that the AVS forum can do without.

Personally, I want to see more dual format players. A dual format player is all I am looking at for my next HD media purchase. Hopefully one that has an audio decoder, ReonVX video processor, and surpasses the standards for both formats.

Dual formats are where it's going. The makers of the dual format chips and technology at the beginning of the year announced numerous companies where in the market for the dual technology and we would likely see some of the players in the fourth quarter. Samsung is the first and it sounds like Onkyo is heading in that direction.

Dual formats are where it's going. The makers of the dual format chips and technology at the beginning of the year announced numerous companies where in the market for the dual technology and we would likely see some of the players in the fourth quarter. Samsung is the first and it sounds like Onkyo is heading in that direction.Hopefully the CE's will hear what consumers like yourself and I are saying. F%$# the studios and their little freakin corporate politics. I'm sick of it. I'll pay more to have a player that plays both, I'll buy what I want, and screw studios and corporations that think strongarm tactics will win them exclusivity. The technology is there. We shouldn't be forced to choose from two bad choices.

Anyway an interesting read, even though its short.
Looks like Onkyo may release a dual format player or Blu-ray player, but there will be no "HD-DVD only" player after all.
[/url]

I never did understand why a hardware manufacturer would commit so much resources into making an exclusive product for a losing format :D

I never did understand why a hardware manufacturer would commit so much resources into making an exclusive product for a losing format :DNice one line fanboy comment with no redeeming contribution. You and fa8362 should have lunch.

Nice one line fanboy comment with no redeeming contribution. You and fa8362 should have lunch.

Wisdom is short and to the point. :p

Wisdom ? Being a smart mouth is what you call wisdom ? Your parents might be wise, you on the other hand have not outgrown your puberty. Your PS3 and Motorstorm are calling from your bedroom.

Uh, ok. :rolleyes:

IF Pio continues to be exclusive to BD, I would think that signals they are looking to be bought out by Sony - Sony does not do Plasma and Pio does not do LCD or DLP or PJ. Pio Elites would be a nice range to round off Sony line.

Any investment bankers working on a deal? Sony stock is rising and they could make the move....

Which would then mean that Panny would take the place of Pio as as Sony's' _ _ _ _ _ in the BD hardware side. Hence, why I think Panny isn't investing much in CE hardware for BD now.

Did I say, the Titanic was doing great until......:)

I see hybrids.......


Crap! Not what you said, I just hope your wrong, Pioneer DVD, and before that LD were my favorite players, I'd hate Sony to screw that up.

Not to stray too far off the topic, but I thought Sony intentionally withdrew from Plasma tech a few years ago? Why would they suddenly form a new interest in it if they purchase Pioneer (does Pio hold heavy patents in plasma tech?).

---

As for Onkyo, this isn't really surprising. Their market has always been the high end CE products, and right now it's looking like the high end needs to support both formats since neither one looks like it'll be a clear winner in the immediate future.

Considering the price area Onkyo targets, I say offering a hybrid is the only choice that makes sense. AFAIK Onkyo targets the $1000 price range (they probably have to go lower to move a significant number of units).

Selling an HD DVD player at $1000 is due to the competition nearly impossible. So they will go for a hybrid because im comparision with a BD player (which is in a similair price range) the value added through HD DVD makes the hybrid a much better deal than a simple BD player.

At the end of the year the market will consist mainly of HD DVD players between $200 and $500 and HD DVD/BD players between $500 and $1000. Pure BD players will play no role in the future - like the BD format itself.

I am looking forward to an Onkyo HD DVD/BD player. I expect to see the same from Denon, too.

Onkyo, Denon, Meridian, LG, Samsung... What do they all have in common ? That's right, dual players designs they're either about to release (LG, Samsung) or are working on. With a status quo in the format war, what do you expect a CE to do to make any kind of money ? It's certainly not Sony screwing every BR CE by releasing the cheapest BR player (PS3) that has helped them in making any profit... Sony might talk the talk but money speaks louder to CEs than promises.

Considering the price area Onkyo targets, I say offering a hybrid is the only choice that makes sense. AFAIK Onkyo targets the $1000 price range (they probably have to go lower to move a significant number of units).
That's exactly what I said - I can't see them competing in the bargain arena, just not their style. Why make a $1,000 BD player? That also makes no sense, a hybrid for the same price will sell more units.

Can't fault Onkyo's business logic at all.

At the end of the year the market will consist mainly of HD DVD players between $200 and $500 and HD DVD/BD players between $500 and $1000. Pure BD players will play no role in the future
Seems to be the direction the market is headed & would make hidef media palatable to a great many.

Sony might talk the talk but money speaks louder to CEs than promises.
Yep, Sony spouted "the PS3 will kill HD DVD & open the market for your $1,000 standalones". It didn't happen & now they're looking for the best revenue situations = makes sense.

I still haven't figured out how Sony sold them on "I'm going to market a $600 game/player......you can sell 1,000 players".........yeah, right :D

IF Pio continues to be exclusive to BD, I would think that signals they are looking to be bought out by Sony - Sony does not do Plasma and Pio does not do LCD or DLP or PJ. Pio Elites would be a nice range to round off Sony line.

Any investment bankers working on a deal? Sony stock is rising and they could make the move....

Which would then mean that Panny would take the place of Pio as as Sony's' _ _ _ _ _ in the BD hardware side. Hence, why I think Panny isn't investing much in CE hardware for BD now.

Did I say, the Titanic was doing great until......:)

I see hybrids.......

I don't see Pioneer being "bought out" by Sony. However, I do see a joint plasma plant being built in 2008/2009 with the deed belonging to both Pioneer and Sony.

Considering the price area Onkyo targets, I say offering a hybrid is the only choice that makes sense. AFAIK Onkyo targets the $1000 price range (they probably have to go lower to move a significant number of units).

Selling an HD DVD player at $1000 is due to the competition nearly impossible. So they will go for a hybrid because im comparision with a BD player (which is in a similair price range) the value added through HD DVD makes the hybrid a much better deal than a simple BD player.

At the end of the year the market will consist mainly of HD DVD players between $200 and $500 and HD DVD/BD players between $500 and $1000. Pure BD players will play no role in the future - like the BD format itself.

I am looking forward to an Onkyo HD DVD/BD player. I expect to see the same from Denon, too.

So BD, with a 2:1 disc sales lead will be dead 7 months from now??? Please explain how the HD-DVD folks to reverse the 2:1 disc sale disadvantage without any Disney, Fox, Sony and MGM content?? Down 2:1 in sales without Disney, Fox, Sony and MGM content, HD-DVD is in the worst competitive position I've witnessed in the home video market in 30 years...even RCA's CED videodisc system was in a better situation 9 months after its launch. Unless something drastic changes (and there's no reason why it should), HD-DVD has no chance of being dominant. The best they can hope for is sticking around as an also-ran for a few years, before disappearing entirely.

Toshiba has done a fantastic job with hardware for HD DVD, but unfortunately for CE's that would like to enter into the HD DVD market, Toshiba has priced them out of the market. It is nearly impossible, if not totally impossible, for a CE to build and sell a standalone HD DVD player of similar specs to the Tosh that can still turn a margin that would make it worthwhile for the CE to pursue it. That's why we haven't seen any competition from the usual suspects. Denon or Onkyo could go after that high end customer who typically pays $2000+ for a DVD player, but that wouldn't be worth the cost at this point, so they'll just wait. There is no financial incentive for a CE to make a standalone HD DVD player unless you can capture the low end, budget line. Then, Tosh is going to remain a strong competitor.

Hybrid players have potential, but standalone Blu-ray players carry the best option for a CE to turn a profit at the moment. If the war continues within 40%-60%, then hybrids make more and more sense, but that will depend on just how much sales gap is created by Blu-ray through 2007. BD players can still carry a selling price that allows for good margin while remaining competitve between the other CE's. I'd be pretty certain that Onkyo has both a Hybrid player and a standalone BD player in the pipeline and is just waiting for market conditions to time a launch. Its still a dynamic market.

Looks like Onkyo may release a dual format player or Blu-ray player, but there will be no "HD-DVD only" player after all.


Lie.

I don't understand how AVS lets this kind of title and post stand.

First of all where is the statement by Onkyo that they are supporting HD DVD exclusively ? So, if there is no such statement where is the question of "backing out" ?

CED puts it properly. It says Onkyo to support Blu-ray too.

Makes perfect sense to me. Let's look at the current situation.

- Leaks of a big low end HD DVD push by Wally's
- Format war shows no signs of abating soon (the death blow failed)

Now let's look at Onkyo's position, they's like to make some money.

- How can I compete against $199 HD DVD players (don't want to)
- Don't want to cut off one side of the market

Okay - dual player it is. The upper end is wide open, best competition are expensive BD only players.

Makes perfect business sense that they would look at all the options.


Quite the contrary - the only ones who are getting screwed at the moment are the standalone BD players. The PS3 sales are flat & the attachment isn't what they hoped. This means all CEs are realizing that the war won't end soon (or ever).

Note: this is NOT a knock on the PS3. This is a simple normal cycle. They've sold to most of those willing to buy in @ $600, the next round will be when the cuts occur = more sales. This is a typical console sales cycle. I'm not knocking the cycle nor the number sold.


Just my opinion but I think Denon will do the same thing. Universal for both formats.

So BD, with a 2:1 disc sales lead will be dead 7 months from now??? Please explain how the HD-DVD folks to reverse the 2:1 disc sale disadvantage without any Disney, Fox, Sony and MGM content?? Down 2:1 in sales without Disney, Fox, Sony and MGM content, HD-DVD is in the worst competitive position I've witnessed in the home video market in 30 years...even RCA's CED videodisc system was in a better situation 9 months after its launch. Unless something drastic changes (and there's no reason why it should), HD-DVD has no chance of being dominant. The best they can hope for is sticking around as an also-ran for a few years, before disappearing entirely.

Didn't you got the memo? 2 million $199 HD DVD player are coming up. Not including Toshiba sales.

Hybrid players have potential, but standalone Blu-ray players carry the best option for a CE to turn a profit at the moment. If the war continues within 40%-60%, then hybrids make more and more sense, but that will depend on just how much sales gap is created by Blu-ray through 2007. BD players can still carry a selling price that allows for good margin while remaining competitve between the other CE's. I'd be pretty certain that Onkyo has both a Hybrid player and a standalone BD player in the pipeline and is just waiting for market conditions to time a launch. Its still a dynamic market.

O.k. one can mess a lot with statistics but there is no way in heaven to find any proof that "standalone Blu-ray players carry the best option for a CE to turn a profit at the moment". Actually the idea is pure comedy. Have you ever looked at the sales numbers for BD standalones? They are abysmal! Bluray is PS3 and nothing more. Bluray has to be VERY happy that the standalones arrive, because this might save the Bluray format from disappearing.

O.k. one can mess a lot with statistics but there is no way in heaven to find any proof that "standalone Blu-ray players carry the best option for a CE to turn a profit at the moment". Actually the idea is pure comedy. Have you ever looked at the sales numbers for BD standalones? They are abysmal! Bluray is PS3 and nothing more. Bluray has to be VERY happy that the standalones arrive, because this might save the Bluray format from disappearing.
In order to make profit, a CE totals the number of units sold times the margin per unit. The higher selling price of BD standalones inhibits selling a large number of units, but it allows for a larger per unit margin. Once you cut MSRP, you cut your margins so you HAVE to sell more units to make the same profit. Tosh has priced out the other CE's from entering into the standalone HD DVD market. That's obvious to anyone. Blu-ray maintains an opportunity for CE's to enter and make decent margin. So do Hybrids. Do I have inside info? No, but its not something that requires such information. By not entering into the price war, Blu-ray has that option in their back pocket. At any moment, the BD CE's could price cut, but it hasn't been necessary yet. The market demand determines price and so far the availible software has created enough demand to sell the incomplete BD hardware at a premium over the HD DVD hardware. This gives Onkyo and anyone else an opportunity to consider Blu-ray standalones or hybrids as an option to turn margins.

Didn't you got the memo? 2 million $199 HD DVD player are coming up. Not including Toshiba sales.

So what? Lower pricing hasn't prevented a 2:1 disc sales advantage for Blu-ray.

Considering the price area Onkyo targets, I say offering a hybrid is the only choice that makes sense. AFAIK Onkyo targets the $1000 price range (they probably have to go lower to move a significant number of units).

Selling an HD DVD player at $1000 is due to the competition nearly impossible. So they will go for a hybrid because im comparision with a BD player (which is in a similair price range) the value added through HD DVD makes the hybrid a much better deal than a simple BD player.

At the end of the year the market will consist mainly of HD DVD players between $200 and $500 and HD DVD/BD players between $500 and $1000. Pure BD players will play no role in the future - like the BD format itself.

I am looking forward to an Onkyo HD DVD/BD player. I expect to see the same from Denon, too. Its a high end player,. Dual format would make sense.

Nothing here says they won't produce HD DVD only either.

Dudes, it looks like this was one question at a press conference on high end AVRs.

What's he supposed to say, but something to keep options open.

So what? Lower pricing hasn't prevented a 2:1 disc sales advantage for Blu-ray.

We know that ...lack of new HD DVD releases did.

So what? Lower pricing hasn't prevented a 2:1 disc sales advantage for Blu-ray. ...during some selected time periods but not since inception and probably not during the current weekly or monthly sales time period.

your point is?

Kosty

He's probably searching for a Gizmodo link for his reply. Give him time ;)

Kosty

He's probably searching for a Gizmodo link for his reply. Give him time ;)

http://bluebuddies.com/help/gif/BakerSmurf.gif

the title of the article is:

"Onkyo May Back Out of HD DVD"

and the moderators are okay with the reference of Onkyo as an exclusive HD DVD supporter? Pioneer, Sony, Panasonic, Philips, FOX, Disney, SONY PIC etc are exclusive supporters of BD. Universal and toshiba are exclusive supporters of HD DVD. Onkyo is not an exclusive supporter for HD DVD. They never did say that they are exclusive to HD DVD. Infact this is the first time that i read that the company is an exclusive HD DVD supporter.

Dual format seems most likely.

Wasn't HD DVD also suppose to be dead @ CES '06? lol

And CES '07, and March '07...

Onkyo has never said that they were going to be exclusive to one of the standards. In fact, I was told this by a product manager at CEDIA Expo last Fall.

All they did was announce that they would be introducing an HD DVD player this year. They did not say that they would not introduce a BD player or a combo player.

Eric

I might be interested in an Onkyo dual format player should one be made.

the title of the article is:

"Onkyo May Back Out of HD DVD"

Emphasis put on may.

How does "may back out of HD-DVD" turn into No HD-DVD player at all?

Onkyo didn't say they're exclusive to HD DVD. They did say in January they're going to have HD DVD player this year. Now they've said that player will not come. Dual format would make perfect sense for Onkyo. They're not targeting so much mass market so the price is not such a big issue. Also many of their potential customers are probably early adopters who already own HD DVD discs. Seeing recent good sales of Blu-ray discs probably has made then to alter their plans and to consider including also Blu-ray in their upcoming player.

I don't know about being exclusive, but I do know my first Onkyo DVD player (over seven years ago) was nothing more than a Toshiba (menus and all) with enhanced audio capability. Onkyo had some sort of deal with Toshiba back in those early days of Onkyo DVD players. At that time, Toshiba players were recognized as some of the best/most reliable.

Early on in the game (and perhaps still now -- I don't know) Onkyo DVD players were almost entirely Toshiba inside.

Based on that, I believed it when I heard that Onkyo was going to be exclusive with an HD-DVD player. I can also see them going dual-format. But going just BR? Umm... probably not, unless HD-DVD peters-out.

Well i'm intererested in what they can accomplish with their new AVR line with HDMI-CEC and whatever HD player they delivere. The HDMI-CEC allows for control of components via component commands. It should work across products as well sinces its a part of the HDMI spec.

I'm looking forward to extending more control so that my Universal remote gets even easy to operate.

I'll likely look at Onkyo AVRs and if they have a good Uni then that would be the odd on favorite to join my stable.

The HD DVD group actually announced TWO additional manufacturers, Onkyo and Meridian.

We spent a lot of time on this forum dealing with the Meridian claim, which was perhaps retracted by statements from Meridian. Key Microsoft staffers spent a lot of time spinning this.

Now it appears we are getting into the same situation over the Onkyo.

Personally, I am not prepared to believe that either of these companies is ready to do much. I recommend waiting until CEDIA to see what develops there.

The HD DVD group actually announced TWO additional manufacturers, Onkyo and Meridian.

We spent a lot of time on this forum dealing with the Meridian claim, which was perhaps retracted by statements from Meridian. Key Microsoft staffers spent a lot of time spinning this.

Now it appears we are getting into the same situation over the Onkyo.

Personally, I am not prepared to believe that either of these companies is ready to do much. I recommend waiting until CEDIA to see what develops there.

I recall a spokesperson, verified as a Meridian insider, made only one post in the insider thread confirming the CES announcement. Unfortunately I cannot remember the user name the spokeperson posted under.

I'm interested in seeing what Onkyo will be doing in the Japanese domestic market regarding the introduction of an HD player. For the most part, Onkyo tends to release the same models of home theater gear in Japan that they do in the U.S., with basically the same feature set but with only small variations (model number prefixes, case color, menus, etc.). Because Onkyo is essentially an audio-only company, I don't think they have the resources to offer the kind of region-specific product diversity that bigger players like Matsushita, Toshiba and Sony can.

Realistically, I don't see them introducing a combination player in Japan unless they can sell it for the same price or less than a competing standalone Blu-ray player. The market for and availability of HD-DVD software is so small in Japan compared to Blu-ray that it would be a really hard sell. Another factor to consider is that in recent years, many of Onkyo's lower-end DVD players have been made by Funai, which recently announced that they would be producing lower-priced Blu-ray players later this year. This existing business relationship could prove significant. My guess is that, at least in their domestic market, Onkyo's first HD player will be Blu-ray only. If they do decide to offer a radically different model for the U.S./European market, it will be an unusual move for them.

Juko,

Now they've said that player will not come

Where in the world did you get that? Onkyo did not say they were definitely not releasing a HD DVD player. Here is what was said.

At CES 2007, it had announced its intent to introduce an HD DVD model, but Haas said that the company is “looking at both [the HD DVD and Blu-ray] formats” currently, and deciding whether to field either a standalone player or a multiple-format model. He added that a market entry could surface “probably closer to the fourth quarter.”

I recall a spokesperson, verified as a Meridian insider, made only one post in the insider thread confirming the CES announcement. Unfortunately I cannot remember the user name the spokeperson posted under.
Just to clear this up:

1) Amir's statements at CES regarding Meridian were correct.
2) Meridian's position has been made clear in the release on our media server. (apologies, this BB seems not to want us to put a url since we are 'new'!)
3) Our interest should not be a surprise since Meridian has been deeply involved in the development and standardisation of HD (and BD) specifications, of tool sets and of peripheral technologies, through our work on the lossless coding.
4) We apologise that a member of our CES crew did not have the whole story and made comments that caused confusion.

However, and to stem any ongoing discussion, please note that Meridian has a general policy not to pre-announce specific models, price ranges, availability or feature sets for any of the several product categories we have in regular development. Guy was verified as legit by mods and his IP address was where it was supposed to be. IIRC other confirming contact was made. Sent PM to me to post his link and gave me private email. I know who he is and he is in a position to know Meridian's strategy. ;)

Key Microsoft staffers spent a lot of time spinning this.


The people who are spinning are the BD supporters / Project H personnel. Meridian people came and posted (see Kosty's post above).

If you want to see spinning look at the title of this thread and the first post.

The people who are spinning are the BD supporters / Project H personnel. Meridian people came and posted (see Kosty's post above).

If you want to see spinning look at the title of this thread and the first post.


I followed this very closely since I was writing an article at the time and wanted it to be absolutely accurate. I even called Meridian trying to find out what the situation was (to no avail).

The quote above is hardly a "yes absolutely we are building an HD DVD player" after all.

It was amusing to watch the amount of effort Microsoft folks put into bucking up the Meridian claim, which really will end up being a blip on the format war anyway.

As I said, I take a "wait and see" attitude on both Meridian and Onkyo in terms of their plans. I neither believe nor disbelieve the statements I heard from the HD DVD group about this last January. I simply have no credible evidence.

But the new report from Onkyo seems to fit my skepticism.

I am also wondering about Fox's bragging about how many Blu-ray titles they were going to be shipping. :) There is no end to the room for skepticism about vendor claims.

I'm interested in seeing what Onkyo will be doing in the Japanese domestic market ..............
Makes perfect sense to me..........but I would seem if they can make the price point a dual player would make sense.

- home market HD DVD useless, but price is same as BR only
- US market combo player gives them access a wider market
- Europe HD DVD gives them an edge

It would seem a competitively priced combo player would give them an edge in all markets..........but there's the SoC. Given the boradcom & cirrus chips can do either it's a relatively simple drive/software swap = build each for a given market.

Anyway you look at it there'll not likely be any immediate decision, Onkyo will be studying the situation that's for certain.

This doesn't surprise me at all. Interpret it all you like, but the fact of Meridian and Onkyo joining with HD DVD to release players was big news a few months ago when it was announced. I remember it vividly. "Blu-ray is all software, but HD DVD is all hardware!" Etc. Much was made over Toshiba being the only company really supporting HD DVD for its first year. And so it looks to continue for its second year.

Has any format war ever been won by a company that supported a format entirely by itself for two years straight? I'm asking that seriously. I don't know. Remember: Toshiba made the 360 add-on, so that's still the Big T.

If every major player Toshiba has joining HD DVD makes a combo player, I think that bodes poorly for HD DVD if the big players on the BDA side stick with BD exclusivity. That could potentially create a situation where nearly all players play BD while just some do HD DVD. Sort of like DTS vs DD, where DTS was a bit more rare and thus less supported.

It's not like we're talking millions of units here. We're talking tens of thousands. Hardly big profit. No company's going to say, "Man, I'm missing out on SO MUCH MONEY by not going with the other side, too." We're talking pennies to these companies. Samsung was politically motivated to go dual format. LG knew it had to do something to stand out, otherwise its expensive player was going to flop.

Onkyo was praised a lot a few months back for being on board with HD DVD and this was used to validate the format as not just Toshiba. Today, seeing the same people who used them as validation now say that it's not a big deal they're considering BD exclusive in addition to HD DVD exclusive or dual format, it's a little bizarre. I'll try and not think of it as spin. Perhaps it's just changed perspective...

Guy was verified as legit by mods and his IP address was where it was supposed to be. IIRC other confirming contact was made. Sent PM to me to post his link and gave me private email. I know who he is and he is in a position to know Meridian's strategy. ;)

your brother in law? :p

No but his thoughts included that finalized standards for a format were a good thing, that content availability was critical in the success of a new format and the easier and cheaper it was to get more content out in the mass market the more chance a format had to succeed.

He thought that SACD and DVD Audio were technically great, but were mass market failures because of content and that consumers did not care about the details.

He also said he personally knew Amirm and that the HD DVD CES announcement was accurate but they had no plans to immediately announce any specific product details and would only do so just before the products shipped.

He also hoped I would buy one when it did. :)

The presentation given to Onkyo reps and dealers last week indicated that an HD DVD player is scheduled to be introduced in October for $1199...

Eric

He also hoped I would buy one when it did. :)

Are you going to? This thing will probably be in the $5k-10k range ...

The presentation given to Onkyo reps and dealers last week indicated that an HD DVD player is scheduled to be introduced in October for $1199...

single format, dual format? I'd consider that for dual format but not for a single format player from any brand...

Are you going to? This thing will probably be in the $5k-10k range ...



single format, dual format? I'd consider that for dual format but not for a single format player from any brand...


All the slide says is "HD DVD"...and considering that the model it's replacing is $1999...

Eric

Are you talking about the Meridian? I was replying to Kosty about the Meridian and the Onkyo to you. I figured the Meridian would be priced as a flagship type player like the G98...

Even the G91 was much more expensive than that....

Are you talking about the Meridian? I was replying to Kosty about the Meridian and the Onkyo to you. I figured the Meridian would be priced as a flagship type player like the G98...

Even the G91 was much more expensive than that....

No, the Onkyo. I assume the Meridian will be somewhat stratospheric!

Are you going to? This thing will probably be in the $5k-10k range ...



single format, dual format? I'd consider that for dual format but not for a single format player from any brand...

Heck, Denon is selling their Standard Def 5910CI for $3,800 bucks! I own a 3910 Denon and they want $1,500 for the newer model of that player (the 3930CI) and they will get those prices.

Heck, Denon is selling their Standard Def 5910CI for $3,800 bucks! I own a 3910 Denon and they want $1,500 for the newer model of that player (the 3930CI) and they will get those prices.


Has someone who's never gone above $450 for DVD and $650 for HD DVD, do ya really get your $1500-3800 worth? In what way? do they just never die?

My significant other would put my belongings on the front porch if I dared to spend four grand on a DVD player.

again moderator - please edit the title of the thread. Onkyo has never officially announced that theyback HD DVD exclusively. Or find me a legitimate news item of press release for Onkyo saying that they back HD DVD exclusively. If not, please edit the title as you edit many of the titles pro HD DVD here and at the HD DVD thread. ;)

Has someone who's never gone above $450 for DVD and $650 for HD DVD, do ya really get your $1500-3800 worth? In what way? do they just never die?

My significant other would put my belongings on the front porch if I dared to spend four grand on a DVD player.

Well I am and always have been single so what I do with my money is my business, I don't need consensus to purchase :D . With that said, I bought my Denon 3910 about two years ago and that sucker did set me back about $1,500, but IT IS BUILT LIKE A TANK and the audio is pure magic. As far as PQ goes on SD DVDs I prefer my XA2 to the Denon.

Why would Onkyo put a blu-ray drive in their player when even Sony is taking the blu-ray out of the Playstation 4 due out in 18 months?

http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Media_Centres/Industry/R8W6V6L6

Sony PS4 Not Far Away

A new Playstation 4 could be less than 18 months away according to a Sony insider. The device will include the same chipset as the current PS3 but where it will differ from the current model is in the drive bay and in the attachment area. It will also include an extensive software suite for the managing of content being streamed to a TV or Hi Fi source.

Why would Onkyo put a blu-ray drive in their player when even Sony is taking the blu-ray out of the Playstation 4 due out in 18 months?
Huh? Stop making things up. Nowhere in this (rumour) article (http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Media_Centres/Industry/R8W6V6L6) does it say they're axing Blu-ray.

Huh? Stop making things up. Nowhere in the article does it say they're axing Blu-ray.

Sony is changing out the drive bay in the PS4 due out in 18 months according to that article attributed to Sony insiders.

Sony is changing out the drive bay in the PS4 due out in 18 months according to that article attributed to Sony insiders.
Assuming the article isn't bull in the first place, it states:

"where it will differ from the current model is in the drive bay and in the attachment area"

That's a far cry from what you claimed.

http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Media_Centres/Industry/R8W6V6L6

Sony PS4 Not Far Away

A new Playstation 4 could be less than 18 months away according to a Sony insider. The device will include the same chipset as the current PS3 but where it will differ from the current model is in the drive bay and in the attachment area. It will also include an extensive software suite for the managing of content being streamed to a TV or Hi Fi source.

That article mentions nothing about Blu Ray drive being removed. FUD

"where it will differ from the current model is in the drive bay and in the attachment area"

That's a far cry from what you claimed.

They are changing out the drive in the drive bay.

That means they are taking out the blu-ray drive and replacing it with something else, most likely something much cheaper to hold down costs.

They are changing out the drive in the drive bay.

That means they are taking out the blu-ray drive and replacing it with something else.
Je repete. Stop making stuff up.

lol, man what it must be like to live in HD-DVD fantasy world. Next headline: "Sony recalls all PS3's and cancels all future blu-ray titles :D "

alarm clock: buzzzzzz
HD-DVD zealot: I don't want to wake up and deal with reality.
--takes broken hd-a1 and smashes alarm clock

They are changing out the drive in the drive bay.

That means they are taking out the blu-ray drive and replacing it with something else, most likely something much cheaper to hold down costs.

Or they could put in a newer version of the blu ray drive. Maybe a 200gb disc reader??? Maybe a Blu Ray burner??

It states no where in that article they are REMOVING the blu ray drive. Just changing it out.

Plus, what do you think a blu ray drive will cost in 1.5 years?? Probably about $15 wholesale. So I doubt that is the issue either.

They are changing out the drive in the drive bay.

That means they are taking out the blu-ray drive and replacing it with something else, most likely something much cheaper to hold down costs.No, you seem to have come up with that. Even if the article is/were true, it could be as simple as replacing the slot loading drive in the PS3 with a tray style. By a year and a half from now blue laser drives should already have come down in cost significantly, including for Blu-ray.

--Darin

Enough.