Interesting news.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=162847

Ken Kutaragi bails out
Thursday 26-Apr-2007 4:49 PM Godfather of PlayStation steps down after launching PS3 to become "honorary chairman"
7 Comments
Sony Computer Entertainment and Sony Corporation have jointly announced that Ken Kutaragi, representative director, chairman and group CEO of SCEI will retire from his executive position effective June 19, 2007.

Kutaragi is known as the "father of PlayStation" and invented and launched the original PlayStation in 1994 as well as the PS2 in 2000.

Kutaragi will step back from his executive management role to serve as honorary chairman of SCEI and provide insight and support Sony boss Sir Howard Stringer as senior technology advisor.

According to Sony After launching the PlayStation 3 worldwide. Kutaragi has decided to "pursue his dreams beyond PlayStation and to accelerate his network vision."

Kazuo Hirai, president and Group COO at SCEI will be promoted to president and Group CEO, continuing his responsibility as the leader of the PlayStation business.

"I am happy to graduate from Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. after introducing four platforms to the PlayStation family," said Ken Kutaragi.

"It has been an exciting experience to change the world of computer entertainment by marrying cutting edge technologies with creative minds from all over the world. I'm looking forward to building on this vision in my next endeavors."

Totally baseless speculation.

Apple Inc is going to hire Kutaragi to head up a newly formed Gaming Division that will work on games that span the iPod to Mac OS X.

Kutaragi breathes a sigh of release as he realize he doesn't have to jump through a billion DRM flaming hoops. Vows to make Sony pay.

You heard it here first.

He had a good run.

Apple Inc is going to hire ....

When was the last time Jobs hired anyone high profile (and ceded some control) ?

Totally baseless speculation.

Apple Inc is going to hire Kutaragi to head up a newly formed Gaming Division that will work on games that span the iPod to Mac OS X.

Kutaragi breathes a sigh of release as he realize he doesn't have to jump through a billion DRM flaming hoops. Vows to make Sony pay.

You heard it here first.


A man retired after contributing much to the gaming community through his work and development, and the first reply on this forum is that?

Seriously....

A man retired after contributing............

?

will step back from
Is corporate speak for "put out to pasture", moved to "special projects" = too big of a name to fire so we'll ease him off to the side.

contributing much to the gaming community through his work and development
That he did........bummer. Maybe he wasn't so happy that they burdened his baby with the alternate mission.

Totally baseless speculation.

Apple Inc is going to hire Kutaragi
I agree... about the baseless part anyway. ;)

Not really news. They demoted Ken last fall... although in Japan they don't call it a demotion.

Is corporate speak for "put out to pasture", moved to "special projects" = too big of a name to fire so we'll ease him off to the side.


Yep, and the date is rather weird. Usually one retires to an honorary position at the end of a fiscal year. Or if you are in a hurry to get the follower on the job to the end of a quarter. But June 19!? Now that sounds really weird. ;)

I agree... about the baseless part anyway. ;)

Hey if I'm going to deliver a whopper I may as well warn you all before I do so. Well I'm happy that Kutaragi is moving on to other things. Judging from the "success" of the PS3 it sounds like they could have used a bit more of Kutaragi's help.

Hey if I'm going to deliver a whopper I may as well warn you all before I do so. Well I'm happy that Kutaragi is moving on to other things. Judging from the "success" of the PS3 it sounds like they could have used a bit more of Kutaragi's help.


Sure but isn't "pursuing other interest's" and "moving on to other things" right up there with "and is looking forward to spending more time with his family" in realm of putting the shine on getting the ax?

In years to come, wisdom will grow and you will understand what these words "honorary chairman" really mean. ;)

If I was responsible for the PS3 failure I'd want to get out ASAP.

I sure miss the days of the Playstation 1 :(

I remember they announced this around last December or so. Everybody knows it has to do with the poor launch.

How is serving as a chairman of Sony Computer Entertainment leaving Sony?
Wow...Unbelievable...

From the press release I posted...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10399130&&#post10399130

TOKYO, JAPAN, April 26, 2007 – Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) and Sony Corporation (Sony) have jointly announced today that Ken Kutaragi, Representative Director, Chairman and Group CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment Inc., will retire from his executive position at SCEI effective June 19, 2007, when SCEI’s annual shareholders’ meeting will take place. Mr. Kutaragi will pass on the torch to the next generation, stepping back from his executive management responsibility of the company to serve as Honorary Chairman of SCEI.
As Ken moves forward to pursue new opportunities, we will encourage and support him. My support also goes to Kazuo Hirai, who is a terrific executive with a proven track record with PlayStation business in the US. I am confident that he will inspire and lead SCEI to new heights.”Ken is G-O-N-E gone.

Sony's Ken Kutaragi to Retire in June

http://www.dailytech.com/Sonys+Ken+Kutaragi+to+Retire+in+June/article7078.htm

With Kutaragi overseeing PS3 development, heads surely were rolling at Sony headquarters. In November 2006, shortly after the launch of the PS3, Kutaragi was moved from his position as President of Global Operations for SCEI and "promoted" to Chairman and Group CEO for SCEI. The move effectively moved Kutaragi away from having direct “hands-on” control over the PlayStation division.

In early March, the internal turmoil within Sony was aired by Sony CEO Howard Stringer. Stringer placed most of the blame with regards to the PS3's problems squarely on Kutaragi. Stringer noted that Kutaragi went over budget with PS3 development, failed to keep co-workers abreast of problems that crept up during the development of the console and was notorious for shunning key executives in other Sony divisions.

Stringer cited the pre-launch 20 percent price cut of the Japanese-market 20GB PlayStation 3 as a one of the prime reasons why Kutaragi was a thorn in his side. Kutaragi blindsided Stringer with the news in a board room meeting. "It wasn't financially one of my best moments," said Stringer. "The budget implications were self-evident. [But] I agreed because I wanted the launch to be successful," Stringer told the Wall Street Journal.

Today it was announced that Kutaragi will be retiring from his position as Chairman and Group CEO of SCEI on June 19. Kutaragi's roles will be taken over by Kazuo Hirai. Kutaragi will, however, maintain the role of Honorary Chairman of SCEI.

In years to come, wisdom will grow and you will understand what these words "honorary chairman" really mean.
:D

I can't help but think with his "pure gaming" background he wasn't 100% "on board" with the new machines alternate mission & that didn't sit well with those above him.

In early March, the internal turmoil within Sony was aired by Sony CEO Howard Stringer. Stringer placed most of the blame with regards to the PS3's problems squarely on Kutaragi. Stringer noted that Kutaragi went over budget with PS3 development, failed to keep co-workers abreast of problems that crept up during the development of the console and was notorious for shunning key executives in other Sony divisions.

Stringer cited the pre-launch 20 percent price cut of the Japanese-market 20GB PlayStation 3 as a one of the prime reasons why Kutaragi was a thorn in his side. Kutaragi blindsided Stringer with the news in a board room meeting. "It wasn't financially one of my best moments," said Stringer. "The budget implications were self-evident. [But] I agreed because I wanted the launch to be successful," Stringer told the Wall Street Journal


Translation -

It's all his fault, had nothing to do with the delays in the Blu-ray drive or the ever changing specs.

He tried to get the price back to a reasonable level for game consoles & was just too dense to see that with Blu-ray we couldn't.

In years to come, wisdom will grow and you will understand what these words "honorary chairman" really mean. ;)

Non-executive board members fall into the same category I think. :)

ops one head rolledd :D the biggest head !! :D the title of the thread should be "Sony Comp boss, Kutaragi fired after PS3 debacles"

ops one head rolledd :D the biggest head !! :D the title of the thread should be "Sony Comp boss, Kutaragi fired after PS3 debacles"

The only way I see it is that Kataguri is taking the fall, but it was Sony's incompetence which led it to this farcical stage in the first place. That was before Stringer and back in the days of Idei, who was the worst CEO in the history of Sony and possibly in the whole CE field.

Kazuo Hirai is the man who is going to devise the comeback of Sony in gaming, and it will start this November with a significant price-cut and introduction of a new model which incorporates a bigger HDD and 802.11n wifi sold for the price of the 60GB.

ops one head rolledd :D the biggest head !! :D the title of the thread should be "Sony Comp boss, Kutaragi fired after PS3 debacles"

I think the title should be:

Another gaming related thread - welcome to the new AVS!

xbdestroya,

No not really. Given the importance of the PS3 to BD and BD disc sales, a mention that the head of the PS3 project is leaving Sony is appropriate.

Isn't it possible for a man to retire?

Sure, you can read into this something disparaging, but there's no reason to. It's not like he was just hired on at Sony last year. He's been responsible for one of the most successful product lines in the history of Consumer Electronics - maybe THE most successful product line. It was the only thing that made Sony money in some years.

Give the dude a break. It's not like his leaving is a sign of failure. All things come to an end, and it was his time to break away. I think history will have to judge him pretty kindly.

announcement that Nintendo made when the father of the GameBoy was put out to pasture following the debacle known as "VirtualBoy"....

Give the dude a break. It's not like his leaving is a sign of failure.
I don't believe anyone here is blaming him one bit, he simply was the focal point for a project that didn't go quite as well as planned.

Simple version - pretty much everyone know it ain't his fault.

I don't believe anyone here is blaming him one bit, he simply was the focal point for a project that didn't go quite as well as planned.

Simple version - pretty much everyone know it ain't his fault.

But there is an implicit assumption in your post - that the PS3 is a failure, because you can't have fault without failure. However it's not clear at all that the PS3 is a failure - unless you judge it by PS2 standards.... in which case you can probable call the other consoles failures as well, because they are unlikely to duplicate the PS2 level of success.

PS2 was a mega hit. PS3 is selling well - not as good as Wii or the 360, but still selling well. It's still a sucess even if it's not number 1. And it is helping establish Blu-ray at the same time. There's nothing (yet) for anyone to be at fault for.

Instead of asking who gets the blame, Sony may be asking who should get the credit. We won't know for a few years whether it's credit or blame people will be taking for the PS3.

But there is an implicit assumption in your post - that the PS3 is a failure, because you can't have fault without failure. However it's not clear at all that the PS3 is a failure - unless you judge it by PS2 standards.... in which case you can probable call the other consoles failures as well, because they are unlikely to duplicate the PS2 level of success.
Not at all. They just had very high expectations, which weren't met. To an extent that left Sony with a bit of egg on their face (got about 1/2 of the predicted 6mil by March).

And if you'll read above my personal opinion is that Kutaragi wasn't 100% onboard with the PS3's alternate mission. I believe that he realized it would force the price up to a point where adoption would be much slower. He was at odds with the higher ups.

It's more about expectations - Sony expected a PS2 reaction but didn't factor in the price moved beyond where such an adoption rate would take place. The also expected it to kill off HD DVD by now.

High expectations not met (realistic or not) = somebody's head has to roll.

Kicked upstairs. Sort of like "Rumsfeld is doing a wonderful job"

Enough with the nasty pics guys, this ain't a cartoon on Comedy Central. :mad:

skogan,

PS3 is selling well - not as good as Wii or the 360, but still selling well

It all depends on what you mean selling well. According to the NPD numbers, the PS3 had another monthly drop - it sold 130K units over 5 weeks.

The only way I see it is that Kataguri is taking the fall, but it was Sony's incompetence which led it to this farcical stage in the first place. That was before Stringer and back in the days of Idei, who was the worst CEO in the history of Sony and possibly in the whole CE field.

Kazuo Hirai is the man who is going to devise the comeback of Sony in gaming, and it will start this November with a significant price-cut and introduction of a new model which incorporates a bigger HDD and 802.11n wifi sold for the price of the 60GB.

WRONG! It will surely start with Kaz announcing RIIIIIDGE RACEERRRRR!!!!

skogan,



It all depends on what you mean selling well. According to the NPD numbers, the PS3 had another monthly drop - it sold 130K units over 5 weeks.
The PS3 is on pace to sell worse than the GameCube.

Isn't it possible for a man to retire?

Do you honestly believe that if (a) the PS3 had sold all six million units Sony projected it would sell by March of '07 (it has barely crossed the 3 million mark) and (b) Blu-ray disc sales were crushing HD-DVD's (not 1-5:1 ratios but outright slaughter) that Ken would be "retiring"? He's 56 years old and responsible for more hardware sales (across all PlayStation branded systems) than any Nintendo console. Be real: he's "retiring" because he's been scape-goated for the disappointing PS3/BD sales, and everybody knows it. :mad:

The following article pretty much places the flop of the PS3 (with the BD drive being the reason) as the reason for his "retirement"

Cnet Article (http://news.com.com/Sony+says+sayonara+to+father+of+PlayStation/2100-1043_3-6179598.html?tag=nefd.lede)

From the article

The "PlayStation 3 has been a huge disappointment, No. 3 out of three in terms of console sales," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst at the Enderle Group. "It's been a huge embarrassment for the firm, and a huge hole that money has been pouring into."

and

Enderle said the biggest of those mistakes--the pricey inclusion of the Blu-ray player in the PS3--may well have been forced on Kutaragi by others at Sony.

The only way I see it is that Kataguri is taking the fall, but it was Sony's incompetence which led it to this farcical stage in the first place. That was before Stringer and back in the days of Idei, who was the worst CEO in the history of Sony and possibly in the whole CE field.

Kazuo Hirai is the man who is going to devise the comeback of Sony in gaming, and it will start this November with a significant price-cut and introduction of a new model which incorporates a bigger HDD and 802.11n wifi sold for the price of the 60GB.

How is a price-cut on the 60g model (that is gathering dust at all major retailers) and an intro of a larger gig model which happens to be wifi (like the wii already has now) going to devise a comeback? The die-hards have already bought in. Do you think they will be jazzed to spend ANOTHER $600 to get a bigger hardrive and wifi? I don't.

The thing is, I think I remember reading a good while back that Kutaragi did not want PS3 driven by Blu-ray, because he knew it would make it quite expensive.

The thing is, I think I remember reading a good while back that Kutaragi did not want PS3 driven by Blu-ray, because he knew it would make it quite expensive.
Exactly, i think $ony have pulled a Samsung on the poor guy. ;)

The thing is, I think I remember reading a good while back that Kutaragi did not want PS3 driven by Blu-ray, because he knew it would make it quite expensive
Yep, that's what I've said - he's a "pure gamer" & he knew it would push the price beyond the mass rapid adoption rate Sony wanted = he's the scapegoat.

How is a price-cut on the 60g model (that is gathering dust at all major retailers) and an intro of a larger gig model which happens to be wifi (like the wii already has now) going to devise a comeback? The die-hards have already bought in. Do you think they will be jazzed to spend ANOTHER $600 to get a bigger hardrive and wifi? I don't.

Well firstly a price cut will induce the non-hardcores to buy in, that is what price cuts do. The introduction of a new SKU will just be to compete point-for-point with the Elite and win in all places.

Why would anyone spend another $600 on an upgraded PS3, you might send $600 but not another $600, the new package would be above the 60GB and attract the hardcores who haven't yet bought in because of game choice etc...

You do know that the 60GB comes with 802.11a/b/g wireless as standard, and I was proposing that a higher SKU would make use of the new n-standard.

Well firstly a price cut will induce the non-hardcores to buy in, that is what price cuts do. The introduction of a new SKU will just be to compete point-for-point with the Elite and win in all places.
They're going need to do better than that. The Elite clocks in at about $525, an upgraded version needs a $75 price reduction. This will still only get you the more dedicated gamers.

They have a ways to go before they had the sales volumes they're looking for. They get the current model under $400 & things will be looking much better.

His parting comments appear to make no mention of blu ray expressly. Pretty clear that it's an ouster because of the PS3.

Enderle said the biggest of those mistakes--the pricey inclusion of the Blu-ray player in the PS3--may well have been forced on Kutaragi by others at Sony.

I'd think so too. Can't fault Kutaragi for that. In that sense it is unfair to make him the fall guy for PS3's troubles.

When was the last time Jobs hired anyone high profile (and ceded some control) ?

Exactly my thoughts.
BTW according to an old but long Wired article Jobs tried very hard to convince Sony many years ago, to unite and rule the CE market but the old #1 guy of Sony was rather turned off by the very pushy, arrogant Jobs.

Jobs is way too egomaniac to let anyone rule in his little Disneyworld - the downside of this is that despite all he 'winning announcements' of Apple their market percentage is still in the single-digit ghetto which is a fairly clear indication they simply enjoy the rising tide of computer sales that pushes the whole PC market up, not only Apple.

A man retired after contributing much to the gaming community through his work and development, and the first reply on this forum is that?

Seriously....

Seriously: who are you talking about?

We are talking about this unleashed, cocain- or some other mind-deforming drug-ridden bozo who used to spit out completely idiotic lies about PS3 on a weekly basis for years then almost caused its - though otherwise inevitable - demise, a product that was DOA at launch and still the worst seller of the market.

BTW Playstation was an accident originally, it had little to do with Kutaragi - he had its heydays around the PS2 but that is over, for many years now.

He was the clown of the gaming industry for 2-3 years now, I never understood why Sony doesn't silence him at least (oriental mindset doesn't really include pushing out older people) - now the bad sales numbers are in, so Stringer was able to push his "retirement" through on the board meeting (it was widely publicized they really disliked each other) - 'bout frikkin' time, I say.

I'd think so too. Can't fault Kutaragi for that. In that sense it is unfair to make him the fall guy for PS3's troubles.

He IS the PS3 guy -who else would you blame?

OTOH I agree that it wasn't his decision alone, of course so the BR player cannot be blamed on him alone.

He IS the PS3 guy -who else would you blame?

People / person who forced BD on to PS3 ?

People / person who forced BD on to PS3 ?

Read my post again, pls.

Good,

Ken was going senile over the last few years and angered many former Sony fans like myself.
I got tired of being told I should work harder to buy the more expensive PS3 and that the PS3 would discipline the children of the world and that I'd be playing in 4d.

He needs to be put away somewhere and given meds.

skogan,



It all depends on what you mean selling well. According to the NPD numbers, the PS3 had another monthly drop - it sold 130K units over 5 weeks.


How many other $600 CE products are selling 130K over 5 weeks? I bet the number is approximately zero.

I hate being in the position to argue for BD or the PS3, because I'm an HD DVD guy, and I my only console is a 360. That being said, I don't think the PS3 has to be the best selling console inorder to be a success. It's sold more than all the other HD DVD players and BD players put together. It probably sold more than any sigle standalone DVD player. It's doing "okay".

Only in a black and white world, where anything but being #1 is a failure, would the PS3 be considered a failure. Just because it's not selling phenomenally well, doesn't mean it isn't successful. There is room for moderation.

How many other $600 CE products are selling 130K over 5 weeks? I bet the number is approximately zero.

I hate being in the position to argue for BD or the PS3, because I'm an HD DVD guy, and I my only console is a 360. That being said, I don't think the PS3 has to be the best selling console inorder to be a success. It's sold more than all the other HD DVD players and BD players put together. It probably sold more than any sigle standalone DVD player. It's doing "okay".

Only in a black and white world, where anything but being #1 is a failure, would the PS3 be considered a failure. Just because it's not selling phenomenally well, doesn't mean it isn't successful. There is room for moderation.

Good points.

Didn't the PS3 sell more in its first 4 months than the 360 even though the PS3 didn't launch in as many regions? 360 certainly wasn't a failure. Are people comparing it to the Wii saying it is a failure, if anything Wii is just selling amazingly well, probably much more than any of us anticipated.

Do you honestly believe that if (a) the PS3 had sold all six million units Sony projected it would sell by March of '07 (it has barely crossed the 3 million mark) and (b) Blu-ray disc sales were crushing HD-DVD's (not 1-5:1 ratios but outright slaughter) that Ken would be "retiring"? He's 56 years old and responsible for more hardware sales (across all PlayStation branded systems) than any Nintendo console. Be real: he's "retiring" because he's been scape-goated for the disappointing PS3/BD sales, and everybody knows it. :mad:




I don't know why you put a ": mad" symbol at the end of your paragraph. I'm not sure what it is about this topic or my response that could make you mad, but I've been getting that a lot lately, so who knows....


You said:
"he's "retiring" because he's been scape-goated for the disappointing PS3/BD sales, and everybody knows it. "

No, everyone doesn't know it. I don't know it, and neither do you. You are speculating, based on very shaky evidence, and holding your theory out as an undeniable truth. Well, I say we don't have enough information to know for sure why he's leaving now, but it could very well be because he wanted to wait until the PS3 was out the door before he moved on. Did you want him to leave before the PS3 launched? During the launch? Exactly when would have been a more appropriate time for him to leave then after the PS3 launched and before they started to work up for the next console?

Ken was going senile over the last few years and angered many former Sony fans like myself.
I got tired of being told I should work harder to buy the more expensive PS3 and that the PS3 would discipline the children of the world and that I'd be playing in 4d.

He needs to be put away somewhere and given meds.

Or maybe you need to work harder and buy the PS3. :p It's worth it. :)

I'm glad whoever it was forced Blu-ray on the PS3 because otherwise I wouldn't have either the PS3 or Blu-ray yet.

That being said, I don't think the PS3 has to be the best selling console inorder to be a success. It's sold more than all the other HD DVD players and BD players put together.

Indeed. And moreover, Sony is still milking a VERY profitible PS2 goose who's R&D payed off long ago. It's completely in their interests to let the sales slowly transition from the PS2 to the PS3 while the PS2 remains profitible and outsells everything but the Wii. Sony still wins on total volume in the console wars and have turned parity in High Def optical disc sales into an unbroken string of Blu-ray domination since the start of the year.

skogan,

How many other $600 CE products are selling 130K over 5 weeks? I bet the number is approximately zero.

I hate being in the position to argue for BD or the PS3, because I'm an HD DVD guy, and I my only console is a 360. That being said, I don't think the PS3 has to be the best selling console inorder to be a success. It's sold more than all the other HD DVD players and BD players put together. It probably sold more than any sigle standalone DVD player. It's doing "okay".

Only in a black and white world, where anything but being #1 is a failure, would the PS3 be considered a failure. Just because it's not selling phenomenally well, doesn't mean it isn't successful. There is room for moderation.

I didnt say that it was a failure because it is not number 1. First, of course it sold more than any HDM player, because it has multiple uses, and therefore has a bigger population interested in buying it.

The problem is that the player is apparently not meeting the targets that Sony set for it. Besides, it is only selling about 17K units a week in Japan, where it should, theoretically sell the best.

Comparisons to the PS2 or Xbox launch, or DVD launch are IMO irrelevant and handwaving to avoid the central issue. The issue is that Sony made certain claims and projections, and those are what should be used to measure the PS3's success. MS's projections for the Xbox are the measure of success for the Xbox.

You're conveniently leaving off the that the same projections also counted on a launch earlier and in many multiples the quantity it actually was. Deliberately?

skogan,



I didnt say that it was a failure because it is not number 1. First, of course it sold more than any HDM player, because it has multiple uses, and therefore has a bigger population interested in buying it.

The problem is that the player is apparently not meeting the targets that Sony set for it. Besides, it is only selling about 17K units a week in Japan, where it should, theoretically sell the best.

Comparisons to the PS2 or Xbox launch, or DVD launch are IMO irrelevant and handwaving to avoid the central issue. The issue is that Sony made certain claims and projections, and those are what should be used to measure the PS3's success. MS's projections for the Xbox are the measure of success for the Xbox.

Not sure what the Wii's projections were but depending on what Nintendo said it is the only console that may have hit their quoted goal. MS and Sony didn't. Still I guess techinically it is a failure that they didn't hit their stated short term targets.

. . . I never understood why Sony doesn't silence him at least (oriental mindset doesn't really include pushing out older people) . . . .

Actually, need to disagree with you on this point, the Japanese are infamous for putting older executives "out to pasture" -- basically they're given a big title with very little real responsibility or authority, which allows them to save face.

I could be wrong, but I read this his ouster as a reaction to internal forecasts, not a bumpy start or somewhat shaky present.
If things were looking rosier down the line, would he be gone? Is it possible that insider comments to the fact that the system is such a pita to develop games for, that studios are choosing to swing in other directions, could point to more serious troubles down the road. If the platform bleeds exclusives, and has a difficult time luring new developers in, it will lose cachet amongst its primary base, and have to fall back on its abilities as a Blu-ray player- for which it will exist as a heavily subsidized device catering to a very small band of enthusiasts. Not what Sony originally envisioned, I'm sure.

I've also seen plenty of commets about how poor the PS3s on-line gaming experience is, compared to the Xbox's, and I'm sure that could be a factor as well.

brianmonkey,

Still I guess techinically it is a failure that they didn't hit their stated short term targets.

I didnt say the PS3 is a failure. It however, has been a disappointment, largely because it isnt meeting the projections set by Sony. I mean, according to VGCharts, the PS3 hasnt even sold a million units yet in Japan.


Uxi,

You're conveniently leaving off the that the same projections also counted on a launch earlier and in many multiples the quantity it actually was. Deliberately?

I dont understand the point you are trying to make.

The problem is that the player is apparently not meeting the targets that Sony set for it. Besides, it is only selling about 17K units a week in Japan, where it should, theoretically sell the best.


Terms such as "doing well" or "doing poorly" are somewhat subjective and relative, but I think it's safe to say that up to this point the PS3 has significantly underperformed in terms of sales compared to Sony's expectations and most analysts' forecasts.

In addition to the March NPD number of 130k for March for North America that someone cited above, the latest numbers from Japan are 10-11k for the week ending on 4/22 (for some reason the Japan numbers come in weekly, not monthly), which IIRC are both all time lows.
By comparison, the Wii sold some 77k in Japan that same week (of course, the 360 sold even less than the PS3 at about 3.5k - the 360 has never done well in Japan).

Be real: he's "retiring" because he's been scape-goated for the disappointing PS3/BD sales, and everybody knows it.

it is unfair to make him the fall guy for PS3's troubles.

The reality is that he had to make it work, given whatever the constraints (Blu-ray drive, price) that were imposed upon him. In a perfect world, he would have designed the PS3 as he saw fit, and priced it as he saw fit. But he's paid to follow the directives of the CEO. That's unfortunately how it works.

And don't feel too sorry for him. He is probably making half a million bucks a year and has a VERRYYYY sweet options package. That's considerably better than most of the AVSer's who feel sorry for him.

Not sure what the Wii's projections were but depending on what Nintendo said it is the only console that may have hit their quoted goal. MS and Sony didn't. Still I guess techinically it is a failure that they didn't hit their stated short term targets.
I have a Wii, and it was very easy to outsell the competition because it is something new and innovative, and is super cheap compared to the other consoles. It easily stands out as something fun for the kids ; and fun for the family. The console's far more of a no brainer than the others.

However, it's not all THAT cheap when you start having to buy not one, but TWO controllers for every player besides player 1, buy replacement batteries or rechargeable batteries (can't just plug it into the console to charge like the PS3, which is super-cool), and buy your component cables (why won't anybody give you those?). Still, it's a fun party system out of the box.

I'm terribly alarmed by the lack of games though. Lucky they had Zelda at launch, but even so it seems the packaged Wii sports still gets more attention (to be fair, it's well-deserved). But all the big titles are still coming. I know I'm reluctant to pick up a title without reading a review, especially when I see it's on another system, meaning it's not a ground-up design for the unique controls.

The PS3 on the other hand has made movies new for me again. I make time to watch movies and BDs, but haven't been making the time to get back into my games (still haven't finished Red Steel or started Zelda). So the Wii is gathering some dust right now, and may continue to do so. I may be the exception more than the norm, but for casual gamers who are movie lovers the PS3 has ample opportunity to stage a comeback.

Terms such as "doing well" or "doing poorly" are somewhat subjective and relative, but I think it's safe to say that up to this point the PS3 has significantly underperformed in terms of sales compared to Sony's expectations and most analysts' forecasts.

In addition to the March NPD number of 130k for March for North America that someone cited above, the latest numbers from Japan are 10-11k for the week ending on 4/22 (for some reason the Japan numbers come in weekly, not monthly), which IIRC are both all time lows.
By comparison, the Wii sold some 77k in Japan that same week (of course, the 360 sold even less than the PS3 at about 3.5k - the 360 has never done well in Japan).

Yes, PS3 has disappointed compared to expectations set on the back of an extremely successful PS2.

PS2 was the market leader in all three big markets - US, Japan and EU. PS3 will be #2 or #3 in all the three markets - in a 3 horse race.

Actually, need to disagree with you on this point, the Japanese are infamous for putting older executives "out to pasture" -- basically they're given a big title with very little real responsibility or authority, which allows them to save face.

and an office by the window...

BTW Playstation was an accident originally, it had little to do with Kutaragi - he had its heydays around the PS2 but that is over, for many years now.


so people refer to Kutaragi as Godfather of Playstation for no reason? :rolleyes:

Well, on CNBC today, Maria Bartiromo had a piece on this transition and she said that the "Word on the Street" is that he was pushed out due to the underwhelming sales performance of the PS3. I dunno if that's the reason or not...

E

and an office by the window...

Yes and apparently corner/window offices have the opposite meaning in the US & Japan ...

Isn't it possible for a man to retire?

Sure, you can read into this something disparaging, but there's no reason to. It's not like he was just hired on at Sony last year. He's been responsible for one of the most successful product lines in the history of Consumer Electronics - maybe THE most successful product line. It was the only thing that made Sony money in some years.

Give the dude a break. It's not like his leaving is a sign of failure. All things come to an end, and it was his time to break away. I think history will have to judge him pretty kindly.

Ahh..no, if you read between the lines or know anything about a Japanese company, this "promotion" to honorary chairman is the equivalent of seppuku (aka hara-kiri). This is taking the fall for a bad PS3 launch.

But there is an implicit assumption in your post - that the PS3 is a failure, because you can't have fault without failure. However it's not clear at all that the PS3 is a failure - unless you judge it by PS2 standards.... in which case you can probable call the other consoles failures as well, because they are unlikely to duplicate the PS2 level of success.

PS2 was a mega hit. PS3 is selling well - not as good as Wii or the 360, but still selling well. It's still a sucess even if it's not number 1. And it is helping establish Blu-ray at the same time. There's nothing (yet) for anyone to be at fault for.

Instead of asking who gets the blame, Sony may be asking who should get the credit. We won't know for a few years whether it's credit or blame people will be taking for the PS3.

Again, I disagree. While the PS3 release is a modestly successful as a BD player launch, it is a dismal game console launch. It is in third place behind the Wii and the XBox 360. Actually in is in fourth place behind the those units and the PS2! The sales numbers for high def players is just a dust speck in the cosmos compared to game console numbers. The decision to delay the PS3 launch to wait for BD players and the much much higher price, not to mention the huge loss in $$ per unit. This, along with the recent cancellation of the 20GB PS3 is evidence that Sony miscalculated, and gambled and lost.

Not to say that PS3 can't be moderately successful down the line as a game console. That will depend on releasing some killer games in the future, but Sony needed a dominating launch and that just never materialized.

and an office by the window...

Exactly!! Funny how the Japanese executive's most undesired office is the US executive's most desired office (corner office with 2 windows)! :)

This news highlights the two different target populations for the PS3. I got this unit but primarily as a BD player, and honestly it is not too bad. However, I don't consider it a permanent piece of my AV rack, but an interim stop gap solution until a dedicated or dual disc player of decent quality is made. The fact it plays games is a small bit of icing (Resistance of Man is the only game I have).

So as a low cost BD player it is a modestly successful unit. But as a game console (with much higher stakes for Sony entertainment) it has been a dismal failure. They needed to crush the competition. So one valid question for this forum, is poor Mr. Kutaragi's fate all due to someone's decision to mandate the BD player in the unit?

This decision certainly delayed its release, limited the number of units available, and significantly drove up the price. Also, no one on earth predicted the amazing success of the Nintendo Wii. The assumption was that MS XBox 360 and the PS3 would battle for world domination. No one dreamed that the $250 little low tech but highly innovative Wii would steal such thunder.

The next question is how long will the PS3 be viewed as a successful BD player?

Not to say that PS3 can't be moderately successful down the line as a game console. That will depend on releasing some killer games in the future, but Sony needed a dominating launch and that just never materialized.

But where will those games come from? Where is the incentive for any studios to develop content when
1) The platform is 3rd or 4th in sales
2) programing due to the architecture of the device is costly and laborious

Well, I can't think of a better way to damn the PS3 other than Sony doing this. It may be just par for Stringer's course though, which doesn't mean much.

But where will those games come from? Where is the incentive for any studios to develop content when
1) The platform is 3rd or 4th in sales
2) programing due to the architecture of the device is costly and laborious

True and true! I never said it was going to be easy, but I just can't rule it out completely.

But where will those games come from? Where is the incentive for any studios to develop content when
1) The platform is 3rd or 4th in sales
2) programing due to the architecture of the device is costly and laboriousThings are different from past generations, game production values are rising. This leads to multiplatform games between Xbox360 and PS3 to share the development costs. Programming aspect only improves and never goes down.

Things are different from past generations, game production values are rising. This leads to multiplatform games between Xbox360 and PS3 to share the development costs. Programming aspect only improves and never goes down.Yes. Things are different. Multiplatform 3rd party games are a given. But they originate on X360 and end up on PS3 (with mixed results).

Yes. Things are different. Multiplatform 3rd party games are a given. But they originate on X360 and end up on PS3 (with mixed results).

Yep. Thats the problem. If the dev platform is 360 and PS3 just gets the ports how can it look better - and if it doesn't look better whats the point of all the "advanced" hardware ?

Does anyone think there is a possibility of a BD-less PS3 SKU in the future at possibly $300 ? Esp. if the format war continues to look like a stalemate.

Kutaragi did some great things in the past, but his handling of the PS3 has been very lackluster. Regardless of whether you want to blame the Blu-ray element on him or not (speaking strictly from a gaming perspective, mind), the part that he really goofed on, and what he really should be "retired" for, is the horrible PR surrounding the PS3 launch.

That said, Sony's still got irons in the fire on the PS3 as a game console, but losing Kutaragi won't really hurt the PlayStation brand at all at this point IMO.

.

Kutaragi did some great things in the past, but his handling of the PS3 has been very lackluster.

Ofcourse the other part is the innovation of Wii which caught both PS3 and 360 off gaurd. I don't think anyone could have anticipated a 6:1 sales ratio in Japan between Wii and PS3. But for Wii, PS3 could have held on to Japan and probably got better sales in US & EU too ...

Good points.

Didn't the PS3 sell more in its first 4 months than the 360 even though the PS3 didn't launch in as many regions? 360 certainly wasn't a failure. Are people comparing it to the Wii saying it is a failure, if anything Wii is just selling amazingly well, probably much more than any of us anticipated.

be as optimistic as you please but PS3 alone will not push a movie format. PSP sales is over 10mil unit yet UMD is dying. PS3 is pushing BD CEs away and making the remaining CE looking like "fools" ;)

Yep. Thats the problem. If the dev platform is 360 and PS3 just gets the ports how can it look better - and if it doesn't look better whats the point of all the "advanced" hardware ?


That's why Sony is investing in significant more first party software than the PS2 era. In the first year and a half of PS2 life span none of the best PS2 games were from Sony. This is very different from PS3's launch and upcoming lineup.

nataraj,

Does anyone think there is a possibility of a BD-less PS3 SKU in the future at possibly $300 ? Esp. if the format war continues to look like a stalemate

No, because that would be an admission by Sony that they were wrong to put the BD player in there the first place, which would prove the critics right, and confirm MSs strategy.

For better or worse, Sony's fortune in this area are tied to the PS3 with BD.

Ofcourse the other part is the innovation of Wii which caught both PS3 and 360 off gaurd. I don't think anyone could have anticipated a 6:1 sales ratio in Japan between Wii and PS3. But for Wii, PS3 could have held on to Japan and probably got better sales in US & EU too ...


What's interesting is that (to me at least) the wii stands a good chance of taking the lead for #s of consoles sold. 6 million consoles sold in 6 months? Wiis still sold out across the nation? How many wiis will be sold christmas 2007?

This means we'll see a potential shift in the demographics in overall gaming fans. This could mean that devs shift their attention to the wii & perhaps less attention on games that "hard core" gamers would like.

The Wii's current success is multifaceted: you don't need an HDTV to enjoy one to its full potential and you don't have to spend $400+ to own one.

Looking at potential owner base, even in the USA and Japan, where HDTV has its highest market penetration, the graphical output of the Wii is acceptable to 100% of households, but the Xbox 360 and PS3 only appeal to perhaps 30-40%; there's some SDTV owners that are buying the high def consoles, but not that many, as the high def feature has been pushed so prominently by both Sony and Microsoft.

Does current sale figures indicate future success, though? I wonder. We're less than 2 years from the analog blackout in the USA; like it or not, this is going to do a lot of things to push HDTV ownership. I think we're may see very different opinions about all of the gaming consoles in 2 years when the majority of households in the USA own HDTVs.

However, it's not all THAT cheap when you start having to buy not one, but TWO controllers for every player besides player 1, buy replacement batteries or rechargeable batteries (can't just plug it into the console to charge like the PS3, which is super-cool),

Nyko charger with rechargeable batteries and silicon-hardened grip on the backplate for $29, working fine here (see my review in the Nintendo gaming forum).

Originally Posted by briankmonkey
Good points.

Didn't the PS3 sell more in its first 4 months than the 360 even though the PS3 didn't launch in as many regions?

like I have said, I think the only real metric is whether the console meets the projections laid out by the companies.

Actually, need to disagree with you on this point, the Japanese are infamous for putting older executives "out to pasture" -- basically they're given a big title with very little real responsibility or authority, which allows them to save face.

Only at the last step. Look at all the boards, everything - still full of old folks. Look at the traditional master-servant styled relationship between older boss and younger subordinates, same thing.
However I agree Japanese still much better in this than others like Koreans.

Does anyone think there is a possibility of a BD-less PS3 SKU in the future at possibly $300 ? Esp. if the format war continues to look like a stalemate.PS2.5? It would make sense but Sony is too proud to make it so. Japanese ego.

Does anyone think there is a possibility of a BD-less PS3 SKU in the future at possibly $300 ? Esp. if the format war continues to look like a stalemate.
I'm thinking that there are many people at Sony now that are wishing that they could release a cheaper version of the PS3 without Blu-ray, but they know they can't because the PS3 has become by far the most popular Blu-ray player. The Blu-ray format would have a hard time surviving if it had to rely on stand-alone players.

Does anyone think there is a possibility of a BD-less PS3 SKU in the future at possibly $300 ? Esp. if the format war continues to look like a stalemate.

Its not possible, all PS3 games come on Blu-Ray discs. A BD-less PS3 would force all games to be re-released on DVD, then Sony would have to ask companies to fill up DVDs with filler content to make the games come on 4~5 DVDs so they can say "See, this game needs 40 GBs"

A possible hire for MS :)

A possible hire for MS :)Now THAT would be interesting! :D

PS2.5? It would make sense but Sony is too proud to make it so. Japanese ego.
This has nothing to do with ego, but the realities of gaming consoles. The first release of any console becomes the de facto standard upon which all subsequent items are based.

This is why hardly any Xbox 360 games make use of the HDD, because the Xbox 360 Core system doesn't have one (and this translates to differences in performance in cases where it gets used, such as can be seen in the superior performance of Oblivion on the PS3 compared to the Xbox 360, and the ultra-fast loading times of Genji: Day of the Blade on PS3).

Consoles never take a step back in technology. It would disrupt way too much workflow in software development, especially for games that take years to develop.

Next thing Sony dumps may be the PS3, having dumped its creator. The Good Riddance factor

The corporate game is all about managing expectations, both internal and external.

The PS3 was late, over budget, and missed its sales targets, and is a financial disaster at this point. Howard runs a public company, he has to be seen taking action to correct the problem or else the stock price will drop off a cliff. Howard knows it was either Ken or himself. At this point unless Howard turns things around over the next 9-12 months, he will be the next to "resign for personal reasons"

John

Excellent, well-researched article on Kutaragi's rise and fall on eurogamer (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=75805).

The corporate game is all about managing expectations, both internal and external.

The PS3 was late, over budget, and missed its sales targets, and is a financial disaster at this point. Howard runs a public company, he has to be seen taking action to correct the problem or else the stock price will drop off a cliff. Howard knows it was either Ken or himself. At this point unless Howard turns things around over the next 9-12 months, he will be the next to "resign for personal reasons"

John

Even acknoweldging the PS3 with Blu-ray as the problem how would you fix it when its not an option to discontinue it at this point? Could they only continue to sell at a further loss at expect to make it up if the format survives?

Even acknoweldging the PS3 with Blu-ray as the problem how would you fix it when its not an option to discontinue it at this point? Could they only continue to sell at a further loss at expect to make it up if the format survives?

I'm sure they can release a DVD version. Most games should fit on a single DVD ...

Given the plumeting pricing on blue laser optics and the fact that Sony built their own diode replication plant means it ain't going anywhere. We'll see an internal HDDVD Xbox 365 or 720 before you'll see a PS2.75.

Ive been gaming since the 2600, and there is no chance of there being a dumbed down DVD version of the ps3! It would spell death for the ps3 pretty much INSTANTLY. I hope no one is expecting one!

Ive been gaming since the 2600, and there is no chance of there being a dumbed down DVD version of the ps3! It would spell death for the ps3 pretty much INSTANTLY. I hope no one is expecting one!

Well this guy isnt leaving the company for the outstanding job the PS3 is doing and it certainly has not even reached its own goals but no I dont know if they would cut it back to dvd versions or not.

Do the game developers have a choice of releasing on DVD for it now?

Where these DVD-version PS3 rumors come from I simply don't know.

Guys, there's 0% chance - 0%. The system wouldn't be able to play PS3 games, and what's the point of that? Besides, the time to have offered such a version of the console was in the past... not now when the price of blue-laser inclusion has already started to plummet.

Anyway Kutaragi's ouster is a blow; I'll miss his role at Sony, but hope he'll keep an active role in the industry (not gaming per se but technology). Also yes, that Eurogamer article is the one to read to gain insight into his time at Sony (even if they get a couple of minor things wrong).

Well this guy isnt leaving the company for the outstanding job the PS3 is doing and it certainly has not even reached its own goals but no I dont know if they would cut it back to dvd versions or not.

Do the game developers have a choice of releasing on DVD for it now? They can alway release a low volume game on BD9 or DVD.

There is zippo chance that the future versions of the PS3 console would not have a Blu-ray drive. Just can't do it, because developers must be able to assume it has a Blu-ray drive. Bad enough that the Euro versions don't have the PS2 emotion engine cheap.

Where these DVD-version PS3 rumors come from I simply don't know.

It is clear that PS3 isn't doing well and the price is hurting the sales. So the question is in what ways can Sony reduce PS3 price without bleeding heavily (remember they just increased the entry price by $100).

The system wouldn't be able to play PS3 games, and what's the point of that?

Why ? They can use BD-9 ...


not now when the price of blue-laser inclusion has already started to plummet.

I'd like to know where this rumor is coming from. Do you have any prices to share with us proving this "plummeting" assertion ?

It is clear that PS3 isn't doing well and the price is hurting the sales. So the question is in what ways can Sony reduce PS3 price without bleeding heavily (remember they just increased the entry price by $100).

Why ? They can use BD-9 ...

I'm going to answer both these questions at once.

All PS3 games to date are on Blu-ray. Thus, you would be selling a PS3 that does not play the existing library. I would think the disconnect here as to why it might thus be a bad idea would be self-evident.

I'd like to know where this rumor is coming from. Do you have any prices to share with us proving this "plummeting" assertion ?

No I don't have any prices to share with you; yet this is not a rumor, but reality. Blu-ray is on the same track that DVD and CD were before it, and as component complexity diminishes, diode yields rise, and OPU miniturization progresses, you will see the entire blue-violet ecosystem shift towards lower source costs. This is already underway of course, and Sony themselves are in a positive-feedback loop at the present due exactly to the component demand created by PS3, which in turns guarantees capacity utilization, which in turn drives production refinement.

Anyway...

Five years from now when we're talking about a slimline PSThree variant, I doubt Blu-ray inclusion will cost any more than DVD inclusion, and that is a slope we are presently on and moving down on a monthly basis. The time to have released a PS3 w/DVD drive and games on BD-9 would have been March 06 vs November 06; at this time Sony has already endured the majority of the pain associated with BD inclusion - why after so much not only abandon that, but toss the benefits as well?

so people refer to Kutaragi as Godfather of Playstation for no reason? :rolleyes:

You can keep ignorantly "rolling eyes" but almost that's the case when it comes to the birth of the PS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playstation#History

However he had a very important impact on Sony's attitude towards gaming: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Kutaragi#Role_in_the_gaming_industry

All PS3 games to date are on Blu-ray. Thus, you would be selling a PS3 that does not play the existing library. I would think the disconnect here as to why it might thus be a bad idea would be self-evident.

Stop thinking inside the box. For someone who doesn't have a PS3 - the # of PS3 titles in the "library" is zero. They just need to get the game devs from putting out the games in DVD media.


No I don't have any prices to share with you; yet this is not a rumor, but reality.


I read the thread about that - and I know now how much of a spin it is. Thx.


Five years from now ...

Lets think about 5 months from now before thinking about 5 years from now :p

Stop thinking inside the box. For someone who doesn't have a PS3 - the # of PS3 titles in the "library" is zero. They just need to get the game devs from putting out the games in DVD media.

Class action lawsuit spring to mind? Because that's what I would expect if I bought a PS3, thinking it would play a PS3 game (say Resistance) and then found out it did not.

You're pretty cavalier in your views on this, I have to say.

I read the thread about that - and I know now how much of a spin it is. Thx.

I think there's some confusion here; I'm not referencing any other threads on AVS - I'm simply stating a reality of the business.

Lets think about 5 months from now before thinking about 5 years from now :p

It just simply isn't going to happen. Like I said, it would have made sense before, but there's no plausible course for it now.

Excellent, well-researched article on Kutaragi's rise and fall on eurogamer (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=75805).


That is a good article.

Class action lawsuit spring to mind? Because that's what I would expect if I bought a PS3, thinking it would play a PS3 game (say Resistance) and then found out it did not.

What are you talking about ? They have to clearly state it is the DVD version. End of story.


I think there's some confusion here; I'm not referencing any other threads on AVS - I'm simply stating a reality of the business.

Then, I expect you to furnish some links.

It just simply isn't going to happen.

How do you know ? Do you sit on Sony's board ? :p

Nataraj, you can believe what you want on this matter. ;)

Blue laser OPUs dropping in cost isn't a matter of news or hype or rumor or anything else; without knowing anything about it, a random guy on the street could say to me that a pickup unit probably costs less to build this year than last... and I would tell him that he's right. And so will it go year after year until they approach the asymptotic restraint imposed by shear materials cost that CD and DVD OPUs are already hovering around.

When Sony realized that there would be no unified standard, that may have been a time to consider a DVD-based system.

When Sony realized that BD technology was running behind schedule, that may have been a time to consider a DVD-based system.

When it became apparent that diode replication constraints were going to hit them both on the sourcing costs and the production front, that would have been a time to consider a DVD-based system.

Three times during development where anyone would have logically understood a change of direction - but yet they went ahead.

Now after the replication hurdles have been cleared, after an entire BD infrastructure has been built-out... now is when you think a DVD-based system should be released? To what, shave $100 off the price tag? You can think what you like about the decision to include BD in the first place - it's a mixed report for sure - but the decision to remove it now after all the pain to get it in there, when the inclusion is just starting now to be less painful, would just in my mind be ridiculous considering the present state of the format war.

As an aside, I want to add that Stringer is no doubt all about the BD inclusion; Kutaragi was a huge proponent of standards unification, and I have to wonder whether at some point he wasn't forced to go ahead with BD against his own will after the issues began to make themselves known.

xbdestroya

I couldnt agree more. There is NO WAY a BD-less ps3 will ever show up! Its ludicrous and just putting your head in the clouds style thinking if you think otherwise. I wouldnt have purchased a PS3 if it didnt have a BD drive in it!

Blue laser OPUs dropping in cost isn't a matter of news or hype or rumor or anything else; without knowing anything about it, a random guy on the street could say ...

I now know how you got the news ;)

It is not an esoteric question of price dropping over the years. It is a matter of trying to gain some market share in the face of the Wii hurricane. Being outsold 7:1 in Japan for Sony is no joke.

When Sony realized that there would be no unified standard, that may have been a time to consider a DVD-based system.

Better late than never ... :p

As an aside, I want to add that Stringer is no doubt all about the BD inclusion;

And I'm sure he will pay for it ...

Being outsold 7:1 in Japan for Sony is no joke.

Japan has room for two consoles. Historically, from Nintendo/Sega to Genesis/SNES to PS2/GC.

Now what is MSFT going to do about atrocious performance of the 360 in Japan? It makes the PS3 look like an all-star record setter.


Better late than never ... :p


Like when HDDVD is dead and Blu-ray IS the standard? :p


And I'm sure he will pay for it ...

How big of a bonus do you think he's going to get? :o

Maybe the sacrificial goat was metaphorical j/k

I now know how you got the news ;)

It is not an esoteric question of price dropping over the years. It is a matter of trying to gain some market share in the face of the Wii hurricane. Being outsold 7:1 in Japan for Sony is no joke.



Better late than never ... :p



And I'm sure he will pay for it ...
Imagine looking fearfully down the street to your right (360) and being clocked from behind from the street you failed to keep an eye on--The Wii! :p

Maybe the sacrificial goat was metaphorical j/k
LOL! :p

Had 2 years ago in the design stages the PS3 been speced with a conventional x86 style processor and a 16X DVD drive it would have come to market same time as the 360 cost about $200 less and would have been the PS3 everyone expected. It likely would have sold out for the first year and been on track to maintain the dominating market share the PS2 carved out.

Because of Bluray Sony has dumped all this time and money into the PS3 making it more expensive, longer to build, and harder to program reducing 3rd party support

Bluray & Cell offer nothing for the gamer. The huge capacity of BD is wasted. Games now compete for rare duplication capabilities. The BD drive loads slower than a 12X DVD Rom. The cell cpu is more suited for HDTV than gaming and extremely hard to program compared to a traditional CISC style cpu.

Despite all this Sony will stick to their great "Trojan Horse" plan. Will it succeed? Only time will tell, but now in May 2007 there is a 0% chance the PS3 will every have anything but a BD drive. To remove the BD drive would anger fans, show the world BD never was needed, delay adoption, and piss off developers who will need to re-release on DVD. Most importantly removing BD from the PS3 would kill studios support and Bluray as a result. The millions of PS3 is all that is keeping Bluray in the running. Without the PS3 by Christmas 2008 HD DVD would be leading 8-10X over BD and it would be all be beta all over again. I will personally destroy my HD-XA2 on youtube if there is ever (even in 2010) a PS3 without Bluray.

^^^^
and on that note they should close this thread, because everything he said is correct, and there's really nothing to add. :p

Article Posted on April 30th, 2007 by John Pospisil

With the recent announcement that the father of the PS3, Ken Kutaragi, is set to leave Sony, analysts are speculating that Kutaragi was pushed because the launch of the PS3 didn’t live up to the hype.
Hard-hitting analyst at IDC, Billy Pidgeon, made it clear why he thought Kutaragi was leaving.

“Sony had too much hype and not enough delivery,” Pidgeon told AP.
If Kurtaragi’s “retirement” is actually a face-saving exercise on behalf of Sony, it may well backfire. It indicates that Sony is very unhappy with the launch of the PS3, and that it’s simply running out of ideas. Not a good sign at all…
Analyst: PS3 father axed over "not enough delivery" (http://gamer.blorge.com/2007/04/30/analyst-ps3-father-axed-over-not-enough-delivery)

So anyone think he might end up sharing the "office with a window" with Stringer? (I'd wager his window is already being installed) :D

Kutaragi already planning PS4 (http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=199202196)

Playstation inventor Ken Kutaragi, who will retire as chairman and group CEO of Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. on June 19, is already thinking ahead to Playstation 4 and beyond.

In an exclusive interview with EE Times, Kutaragi said: "As a matter of course, I have the vision of Playstation 4, 5 and 6, which will merge into the network."

Thursday's (April 26) announcement of Kutaragi's "graduation" from SCEI was widely viewed here and across the consumer electronics industry with surprise. Kutaragi said he proposed his resignation to Sony's board of directors on Thursday.

Kutaragi said he previously turned over to Sony's PS3 design team his vision for reducing costs along with design models extending about two years into the future. "Now I'm ready to start working with a much wider world," Kutaragi said.

The outgoing Sony executive said he will maintain an amicable relationship with Sony, but added that future projects will be largely independent of Sony.

From its inception, Kutaragi said he had a vision for the Playstation franchise. The roadmap that led to PS3 was always clear in his mind, he said. But when introduction of PS3 was delayed by a blue-violet laser shortage, "I could not talk about the next step. We've introduced PS3 in Europe, so now I can openly talk about" future plans, he said.

Creating a new world on the network is the next challenge Kutaragi has in mind, following the desgin and development of computer entertainment on the Playstation. "The design concept of the Cell processor is the network processor," he stressed. When the PS3 was introduced last year, Kutaragi said the network environment was not ready for a net-based game console.

"Now it has become possible, so why not enter?" he said.

So anyone think he might end up sharing the "office with a window" with Stringer? (I'd wager his window is already being installed) :D

Stringer wouldn't know what that is. In the best traditions of western capitalism he would expect a golden handshake.

Stringer wouldn't know what that is. In the best traditions of western capitalism he would expect a golden handshake
:D True.............so true

BTW, I should note that Sony has actually done very well in recent quarters. They have come out of their TV doldrums and the movie business is doing very well. I doubt Sir Stringer is anywhere close to a window office.

BTW, I should note that Sony has actually done very well in recent quarters. They have come out of their TV doldrums and the movie business is doing very well. I doubt Sir Stringer is anywhere close to a window office.
A temporary peak - check back in a year when the TV market is tight & the whole "format" war shakes out. :)

BTW, I should note that Sony has actually done very well in recent quarters. They have come out of their TV doldrums

You mean those ill-famed clouding-ridden LCD TVs Sony keep spitting out for some time now? Are we living on the same planet? :)


and the movie business is doing very well.

Sure like with Ghost Rider or Vacancy... OTOH it's a farily safe bet that popular junk movies like Spider-man and others won't have any problem on the junk-loving US market so it'd be pretty hard for Sony Pictures to not to perform well...

The point is not whether Sony would deliver a non BD PS3 but if they reduce expectations for units sold. Sony's failure has been failing to meet delivery, cost, and sales goals and attach rates.

I agree it is very unlikely that the PS3 would have the bd drive removed. It is possible, but unlikely that they could get the games re released on DVD.

Sony could decide to bring forward a replacement for the PSP more along the lines of the Wii and try to bolster sales based on a new product offering.

The major problem Sony faces is going back to the studios and admitting they did not meet expectations, and that they are unlikely to meet the sold units projections that were originally presented.

John

You mean those ill-famed clouding-ridden LCD TVs Sony keep spitting out for some time now? Are we living on the same planet? :)

Purely going by financials. Ofcourse whether something is partly cloudy or partly sunny is a matter of perception :D

Ironically, an analyst says now that PS3 will win the console war because of Blu-ray (http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=16061).

Ironically, an analyst says now that PS3 will win the console war because of Blu-ray (http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=16061).
The article actually says this "win" won't happen until 2009, and will actually be a "dead heat".
We believe that this is essentially a dead heat, and each manufacturer will have sufficient market share to generate significant profits.

The article actually says this "win" won't happen until 2009, and will actually be a "dead heat".
Good point.

HD DVD is becoming established now - as such, support from the other BD studios will be inevitable within 12 months.

BD has missed it's window to "win".

Good point.

HD DVD is becoming established now - as such, support from the other BD studios will be inevitable within 12 months.

BD has missed it's window to "win".

The analyst is not talking about the winner in hidef wars, but rather of the console wars.

Hmmm... I cant figure out why this thread stayed open... even though it has NOTHING to do with HD movies and is severely off topic and the Universal news threads were closed everywhere. Just me thinking out loud. Oh wait Universal is a rumor right now... even though the source is reputable. Just because its a different language does not make it unreputable. Sure am glad all those "HD DVD Wal Mart" threads got closed on day one to or it might look a lil biased here. :rolleyes:

Good point.

HD DVD is becoming established now - as such, support from the other BD studios will be inevitable within 12 months.

BD has missed it's window to "win".Blu Ray doesnt have to win. The retail stores and studios will decide it for them. Looks pretty good for Blu Ray in both categories right now... unless you discount all of the studio support Sony has plus most retail stores seem to give Blu Ray more promotion and shelf space. ;)

Ironically, an analyst says now that PS3 will win the console war because of Blu-ray (http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=16061).

Yes, saw that on vgchartz and chuckled.

http://www.vgchartz.com/news/news.php?id=292

Funny - sounds like BD people hope PS3 will carry the day for them and PS3 people hope BD will carry the day for them.

Yes, saw that on vgchartz and chuckled.

http://www.vgchartz.com/news/news.php?id=292

Funny - sounds like BD people hope PS3 will carry the day for them and PS3 people hope BD will carry the day for them.Can you say co-dependence?

unless you discount all of the studio support Sony has plus most retail stores seem to give Blu Ray more promotion and shelf space. ;)

The best support and shelf-space money can buy. ;)

Good point.

HD DVD is becoming established now - as such, support from the other BD studios will be inevitable within 12 months.

BD has missed it's window to "win".I saw this post and this link
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9987457&&#post9987457
in his sig and rolled my eyes :rolleyes:

...the Wii sold some 77k in Japan that same week (of course, the 360 sold even less than the PS3 at about 3.5k - the 360 has never done well in Japan).

The 360 and the original XBox and Fords and Chevys and Curtis Mathes TVs; essentially nothing sells well in Japan if there is a Japanese alternative available.

The 360 and the original XBox and Fords and Chevys and Curtis Mathes TVs; essentially nothing sells well in Japan if there is a Japanese alternative available.


Except for Ipods, Apple computers, Mercedes, BMWs, Mcdonalds, Starbucks, and pretty much all the international clothing and prestige brands.

Are you talking from experience? there are alot of foreign brands over in Japan.

Ugh. First it was Square Enix getting rid of Hironobu Sakaguchi-san because of Spirits Within, and now it's Sony effectively putting Kutaragi-san out of the Playstation picture for what was admittedly a poor launch but by no means an unmitigated disaster. There hasn't even been an appropriate time frame to judge the success/failure of the PS3 yet. Sure the launch was pretty bleak, but the console hasn't even been out for a full year! I mean it was obvious to everyone that Sony's arrogance was going to damage their reputation this go-around in the console wars.

I am not a fanboy by any means, but I would be lying if I said that I wasn't a bit partial Sony consoles the last 2 generations because I primarily play RPG's. I am planning on picking up both a PS3 and a 360 down the road, but this may just have been the straw that broke the camel's back, and I will probably now buy an X360 first.

Oh well, at least Sony has the perfect time to introduce the 65 nm chips and the imminent dual shock 3 now.

I hope that, just like Sakaguchi-san at Mistwalker, Kutaragi-san will continue to make his already indelible mark continued to be felt on the videogame industry.

Except for Ipods, Apple computers, Mercedes, BMWs, Mcdonalds, Starbucks, and pretty much all the international clothing and prestige brands.

Are you talking from experience? there are alot of foreign brands over in Japan.

DId I say there were no foreign brands in Japan? Looking back on my post it seems that I said nothing of the sort. What I said is that imports have a hard time in Japan if there is a Japanese alternative. Yes they sell BMWs and Mercedes in Japan, but they don't sell as many of those as they do high-end Toyotas and Hondas.

The rest of the items you mentioned are exclusive to those particular companies; for example Apple Computer is the only company on Earth that makes Macs or iPods.

... there are alot of foreign brands over in Japan.

A good anology would be Samsung. Do Samsung TVs sell a lot in Japan ?

Yes, Imports have a hard time selling in Japan if there is a better quality, similar price Domestic alternative, are you telling me the same thing doesn't happen in pretty much ever other country in the world?

Samsung are not as price competitive in JDM as they are in overseas markets. Are Apple the only company in the world that makes PCs and mp3 players? Is there another company that makes xboxes? How about another company that makes Silverados or Mustangs?

I see a lot Mercedes than Legends on the roads, Cemas and Presidents granted are more popular, though I wonder if that is through Yakuza association :D


It's merely a common myth that foreign products can't sell well in Japan, nationalism is no stronger there than it is in the US from my experience. Unlike their neighbours, Korea and China. I have noticed more emphasis on quality and customer service over price in comparision to the US there though.

Warranties are awesome in Japan, staff in companies bend over backwards for you, it's even easier if you're ganji, they're so scared you'll start speaking English :D

Good point.

HD DVD is becoming established now - as such, support from the other BD studios will be inevitable within 12 months.

BD has missed it's window to "win".

And you know this how? Did the president of all the movie studios get together and told you over lunch? :p

I heard Universal is going format nuetral, maybe we heard it from the same people!

I saw this post and this link
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9987457&&#post9987457
in his sig and rolled my eyes :rolleyes:
Thanks for bringing the broken link to my attention KL - I've fixed the link for the VC1 City Skyline shot so that the VC1 encode can be fully appreciated :)

As for the rolling of the eyes bit, I don't think anyone is in doubt as to which side I support, nor your stand either for that matter. I'm proud of the stand I'm taking, since VC1, and HD DVD by extension, have been proven to be giving a better picture than the other codecs on BD on most releases ;)

If one takes a look at that King Kong Cityscape, versus the Bluray AVC encode of Jean walking out of the fire in Xmen III, the difference in quality is easy to see...

And King Kong is a 2 1/2 hour movie...

King Kong - VC1 - http://www.imageviper.com/displayimage/80635/0/KKhddvd1.jpg

Xmen III - AVC - http://uploadingit.com/files/8540/Bluray/XmenIII8.png

And you know this how? That's my analysis, and is shared by many commentators. The PS3 was supposed to be the magic bullet, but it sort of fell out of the end of the barrel, instead of blasting away the competitor.

Did the president of all the movie studios get together and told you over lunch? :pGee, that would be fun, but I'll have to check my schedule ;)

I heard Universal is going format nuetral, maybe we heard it from the same people!That was another FUD campaign started by a Pioneer employee in Germany. As you know, Universal smashed that rumour with an unequivocal denial within 24 hours.

Nice try tho ;)