Well I finally bit the bullet and decided to get into DIY speakers by building a surround kit designed in part by Rick Craig from Selah Audio (http://www.selahaudio.com) and a friend many of you already know Steve Withey (swithey). Steve's HT build thread. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=620108)

I always had an interest in DIY speakers, just no motivation to build them until now. With an HT build going on I had to get my money's worth on four surround speakers to timbre match my LCR's (B&W 604's and LCR-6). I could've bought the matching speakers from my B&W dealer, Marvins Electronics (http://www.marvinelectronics.com/store.htm), but didn't. Due to the b&w ported design I could not place them in the HT columns.

The surround XO were designed and built by Rick. BSC was optimized for speaker placement.

http://lh5.google.com/image/ifelici/RjK8YZNVfbI/AAAAAAAAAPA/L1UIEuHc3no/s800/DSCN01851.JPG

I'm using Steve's enclosure design with a slight modification to the bi-pole side surrounds. I increased the angle of the baffles to 15° from 10°. Since my HT room is so much smaller than Steve's, I wanted to shift the sound envelope, if you will, away from the corners.

http://lh3.google.com/image/ifelici/RjLMD5NVfjI/AAAAAAAAAQE/DzRzfNn99ro/s800/rearsurround.jpg

http://lh6.google.com/image/ifelici/RjLMEpNVfkI/AAAAAAAAAQM/1vMBMPja-Wk/s800/sidesurround.jpg


Wood cutting will begin tomorrow !

I have no doubt you'll love them! I have four RS180s sitting unused at the moment, but that will change. Can't beat them for $25 on clearance! They are amazing midwoofers for the price, really.

Are those 27TDFCs?

25 on clearance? Did I miss a sale I guess?

25 on clearance? Did I miss a sale I guess?

Yeah. They occasionally have them on sale, and it also happened to be free shipping at the time with orders $99 and over, so I got four RS180s shipped to my door for $100.

I have no doubt you'll love them! I have four RS180s sitting unused at the moment, but that will change. Can't beat them for $25 on clearance! They are amazing midwoofers for the price, really.

Are those 27TDFCs?

Hi Willd,

I heard lots of great things, from the folks at HTGuide, about the RS series speakers from PE. Im really glad I made the choice, with a little coercion from Swithey, to build these. :)

Yes the tweeter is a SEAS 27TDFC.

25 on clearance? Did I miss a sale I guess?

If you sing up for the PE catalog, about once a month they send out a small flyer with
lots of items on clearance or sale.

Early Saturday morning....Well not so early Saturday morning. Made the cut sheet in Cutlist Plus (Bridgewood Design software). I laid out the parts on 24" x 48" x 3/4"
MDF. Smaller sheets means easier to handle when no help is available. Although I could buy at HD already cut to 24" x 48", I called my hardwood supplier and the had it
cut for me for no cost and the MDF cost me a couple of bucks less than HD.

...To make some saw dust I go !!

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/8690/layout1hb3.jpg

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/8008/layout2sh4.jpg

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/9619/layout3jf8.jpg

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/5062/layout4qo2.jpg

Got all the enclosure parts cut to size and holes for the drives cut out, and began putting together the di-pole surrounds.

Here im just making sure things line up correctly.

http://lh4.google.com/image/ifelici/RjTaTpNVfpI/AAAAAAAAAQ4/h83dsuTtA80/s800/DSCN0196.JPG

All the cuts were made with the tablesaw blade at a 15° angle.

http://lh3.google.com/image/ifelici/RjTaQZNVfmI/AAAAAAAAAQg/s-PStFHMIG4/s800/DSCN0193.JPG

To make sure I maintained the 15° angle on all cuts even after reseting the saw. I setup my sliding T-Bevel to 15°.

http://lh6.google.com/image/ifelici/RjTacJNVfwI/AAAAAAAAARw/zuuJwYpNTlE/s800/DSCN0203.JPG

Before I bored the holes for the drivers I dadoed all the sides for the braces.

http://lh3.google.com/image/ifelici/RjTagZNVf0I/AAAAAAAAASQ/rCmebe7VBKc/s800/DSCN0207.JPG


Time to cut holes. The small holes are there so the terminals of the tweeter can clear. I also drew some reference lines for the hole locations.

http://lh4.google.com/image/ifelici/RjTampNVf5I/AAAAAAAAAVw/51O0etfCGQc/s800/DSCN0212.JPG


Setting up my Jasper Circle cutting jig. This thing needs to sit centered on the router base.


http://lh3.google.com/image/ifelici/RjTauZNVf_I/AAAAAAAAATo/ZOc-UF5lP6Y/s800/DSCN0218.JPG


The jig comes with a 1/4" spiral bit, but I use a 1/2" straight cut CMT bit. It covers more area than the 1/4" so it's faster to cut the hole.

http://lh3.google.com/image/ifelici/RjTa2ZNVgGI/AAAAAAAAAUg/Yf2eYqqdHLI/s800/DSCN0225.JPG

I didn't get any photos of the hole cutting process. Sorry :o
Here are the holes....One baffle down five more to go.. :D


http://lh4.google.com/image/ifelici/RjTa3pNVgHI/AAAAAAAAAUo/6mfUjhn7pys/s800/DSCN0226.JPG


To be continued.....

Wow I gues i need to read the rules on image posting. My last post had one to many and the system told me to remove it. :confused:
-----------------------------------------------

One dipole glued the other in clamps with glue drying. I'm back to the shop to work on the Rear Surrounds..... :eek:


http://lh5.google.com/image/ifelici/RjTa65NVgKI/AAAAAAAAAVA/ZhlBqku3Zm4/s800/DSCN0229.JPG


By the way, I will veneer these with Ash and stain black to match my the HT LCR.


http://lh5.google.com/image/ifelici/RfuGRj7bhTI/AAAAAAAAADU/azHLieGN5sc/s800/DSCN0031.JPG

Ivan,

Awesome job on the surrounds. I know you will be happy with the sound. Thanks for throwing me the link to your post!

Hopefully we can swap visits to hear them at each other's HTs :)

Is there a good newbie DIY thread on building Floorstanding speakers...I may look into doing something like that. All these different wiring schemes just confuse the hell out of me...I need something a little more understandable. I can do all the woodwork no problem...just a little dem on the rest of it.


What sort of budget should I set for a 3-way such as what is seen above (keep in mind it doesn't have to be high end). Something entry-level is what I'm looking for but if you guys say I can build a couple of 1000 dollar speakers for 300 each..then that might be a series consideration.

Thanks in advace.

There is a nice long thread over at HTGuide.com for a set of full size floorstanders.
Click here (http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=15323) to go directly to the thread. They also have several DIY builds on the Mission Accomplished (http://www.htguide.com/forum/forumdisplay.php4?f=39) sub-forum.

They have B.O.M. and plans for all the completed speakers.

Ivan,

Awesome job on the surrounds. I know you will be happy with the sound. Thanks for throwing me the link to your post!

Hopefully we can swap visits to hear them at each other's HTs :)

Thanks, Steve.. Shouldn't be a problem heading this way to audition the speakers. It'll just be a long time from now. I have to halt progress on the HT to figure out HVAC requirements and changes for HT and equipment closet and family life. School is almost over and we have to plan the summer. :)

I have to halt progress on the HT to figure out HVAC requirements and changes for HT and equipment closet and family life. School is almost over and we have to plan the summer. :)


If you are looking to add a new HVAC system to a room such as a HT room...you might consider a Mitsubishi Mr. Slim. I am a dealer but only in Arkansas...I suggest getting a "Diamond Dealer" to give you an estimate, these are dealers who have went through extensive schooling and know what they are talking about. The upfront cost is fairly expensive but the added comfort and energy savings make up for it. Another really nice thing about the Mr. Slim is it's totally silent running...and comes with a remote. We put these things in server rooms all the time, have also done several bonus rooms, and other hard to get to rooms where traditional systems can't go. Being in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area...you should find it pretty easy to find a dealer...they ship out of Dallas as do many of the other "Ductless Mini-Split manufactures". Anyway...just thought I would pass that along.

Yea. I've though about the mini-split system, but I just need to increase the size of my supply duct and put in a large return. According to my HVAC coworker my system will be able to handle it.

Anyhow...I started put the Rear Surrounds together just to try out before I veneer. Here's a shot of the XO.

http://lh5.google.com/image/ifelici/RjbL_ZNVgQI/AAAAAAAAAWU/EeuU-Qxre80/s800/DSCN0235.JPG


A little trick I learned from my dad and grandad - MDF doesn't accept screws very well. After pre-drilling, a drop of thin CA glue (Cynoacrylite) in the hole will harden the MDF making it harder for screws to pull out. You can also drill, glue, and tap the hole with machine threads without problems.

http://lh3.google.com/image/ifelici/RjbL75NVgOI/AAAAAAAAAWE/6tAeTre4928/s800/DSCN0233.JPG


Completed Rear Surrounds last night about 11:30 PM. I made the enclosures based on Switheys plans since he already had great results. Im thinking about making them a bit narrower (1.5") and add the volume back by increasing the depth. I would also separate the woofer and tweeter a bit more (.5").



http://lh5.google.com/image/ifelici/RjbMAZNVgRI/AAAAAAAAAWc/bJtjZB16BDE/s800/DSCN0236.JPG


No sound tests yet !!! :( Today after work :eek:

Finished the dipoles. I need to go pick up the veneer :rolleyes:

http://lh3.google.com/image/ifelici/Rj_7rpNVgUI/AAAAAAAAAW8/83dOEfQh--s/s800/DSCN0239.JPG

Another shot...

http://lh4.google.com/image/ifelici/Rj_7s5NVgVI/AAAAAAAAAXE/Qj0egN8iP8s/s800/DSCN0240.JPG

Dry Fitting in column...

http://lh3.google.com/image/ifelici/Rj_7tpNVgWI/AAAAAAAAAXM/D2yO9C0cMnk/s800/DSCN0241.JPG


http://lh5.google.com/image/ifelici/Rj_70JNVgXI/AAAAAAAAAXU/BHD-ZaBMmao/s800/DSCN0242.JPG

Room for pics

http://lh5.google.com/image/ifelici/RjbMAZNVgRI/AAAAAAAAAWc/bJtjZB16BDE/s800/DSCN0236.JPG
Damn, those look VERY familiar ;)
http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/DIYS-RearSurrDrivers1.JPG

I think you'll be very satisfied with the sound. I wish you could have come over to my house before you built them -- so you would know the sound.

As far as stuffing, I just used standard polyfill from Joannes and it worked fine. I filled the entire cabinet loosely and kept it fluffy. Make sure you run them at a low volume level for a few hours to allow the coils to warm up a bit.

And be careful about making them narrower. This will change the baffle compensation and might change the sound of the speakers. Check with Rick before you re-make them. Most likely Rick will say that is fine because he makes very forgiving XOs.

As far as stuffing, I just used standard polyfill from Joannes and it worked fine. I filled the entire cabinet loosely and kept it fluffy. Make sure you run them at a low volume level for a few hours to allow the coils to warm up a bit.

And be careful about making them narrower. This will change the baffle compensation and might change the sound of the speakers. Check with Rick before you re-make them. Most likely Rick will say that is fine because he makes very forgiving XOs.



I got the polyfill from Walmart. The size thing is just a "if I had to build them again I would"..thing. After thinking about it, I don' think I have the time to re-build.


Im going home for lunch to listen to the speakers for an hour. I got some John Coltrane for raw music and I really like Diana Krall's vocals.. :cool:

Let know how the listening test goes :)

Let know how the listening test goes :)

I have to say....HOLY SH%& !!!!!!.
I'm pretty impressed, and they're just surrounds. As you can see my review won't be too technical. I don't want to confuse all the newbs with speaker auditioner jargon.

Did I say .....HOLY SH%& !!!!!! yet ? I was playing John Coltrane, one of my favorite jazz musicians. The detail was incredible for such a small speaker. The soundstaging, phenomenal. Then went in Diana Krall and Bobby Knight for vocals.....One more time .....HOLY SH%& !!!!!!

That's about as good as a review I can give right now :confused: :confused:

Very nice, look forward to the veneer pics.

I knew you'd like them. Incredible performance for the $$$!

Time to think about having Rick hook you up with some new LCRs, eh? ;)

I have to say....HOLY SH%& !!!!!!.
I'm pretty impressed, and they're just surrounds. The detail was incredible for such a small speaker. The soundstaging, phenomenal.
What did I tell ya! I used my rear surrounds (just like the ones you have now) as my main speakers for about 2 months and had ZERO complaints. Rick does some great work!

I knew you'd like them. Incredible performance for the $$$!

Time to think about having Rick hook you up with some new LCRs, eh? ;)

He's got me hooked already just a bit more reeling-in.. :D

What did I tell ya! I used my rear surrounds (just like the ones you have now) as my main speakers for about 2 months and had ZERO complaints. Rick does some great work!

I know, I know !! Pretty darned good X-overs. I'm gonna put the others together. Friday I'll pick up some veneer.. woo-hoo !

Great work and loved the review. I am working on getting some of those RS Series (the 225-8) for my mains so I have another project to tinker with. Keep us posted here, looking forwar to the finished product.

those are pretty cool, could you post a layout of the crossover design? or is it an intellectual property thing?...

those are pretty cool, could you post a layout of the crossover design? or is it an intellectual property thing?...

The dipoles aren't built yet. those are the rear surround monopoles. I should be finishing the dipoles this weekend. The crossovers were designed by Rick Craig @ Selah Audio and they are his intelectual property. ;)

The dipoles aren't built yet. those are the rear surround monopoles. I should be finishing the dipoles this weekend. The crossovers were designed by Rick Craig @ Selah Audio and they are his intelectual property. ;)

How do you go about purchasing those designs? Your dipoles look very interesting and I am looking to build surrounds after getting wonderful results from my Dayton Reference MTM build. I looked on the Selah Audio website and no kits from surrounds were listed. Thanks a lot.

How do you go about purchasing those designs? Your dipoles look very interesting and I am looking to build surrounds after getting wonderful results from my Dayton Reference MTM build. I looked on the Selah Audio website and no kits from surrounds were listed. Thanks a lot.

Check your PM

Added pics above. :D

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10436853&&#post10436853

Those bi-poles look awesome. Just wanted to ask since the pics do not show. You did put a vertical board to separate the left side drivers from the right side drivers -- right?

Thanks for the props. Yup there's a brace. It was in the original drawings you had sent me, but I didn't know if it was a solid brace or with cut outs like the monopoles until I saw your dipoles picture. ;)

One question I have, and it might be written on the XO's. Were the dipoles directional ? Or location specific like left dipole and right dipole ? I've read somewhere that dipoles need to work slightly out of phase from the front channels to avoid sound wave cancellation.

No - not directional. They are just a split feed to both sets of drivers. However, I've heard you can put the rear pair of drivers out of phase by reversing the +/- leads. The Paradigm ADP470s (which is what these speakers are modeled after) are "out of phase" for the rears -- which is why you want to be sure to put them on the correct wall. I was actually going to try the pole reversal but never did.

The impedance on the bi-pole are a bit more power hungry at 4ohm. The rears are 7ohm.

Once I get them installed to my receiver and have the room treated, I'll try the pole reversing to see how they sound.

Will have an update soon. Lots of good family time has kept me from finishing. :)

I figured the family was taking all your time. I've been thinking about veneering my LCRs but have way too many other things that I want to do 1st. Hmm - Wet Bar or speaker veneer.. bet you can guess which one the wife wants first :rolleyes:

Did you decide to round the corners on the (2) rear surrounds?

Hi Steve,

Yup family. Sometimes I wish they could actually be handy. My boy tries to help, but the priorities of the 6 y/o do not lay with helping dad. All he thinks about is going swimming at aunty's pool, and with the few warm days we've had, I also think is a good choice.


I'm sure the wife wants the wet bar done. On the dipole surrounds im thinking of a semi round-over on the top and bottom covers, and a semi round-over on the baffle of the side surrounds.