Background: First let me say that I don't care who wins or loses. I just want one format. I have both a HD DVD and Blu Ray drive for my HTPC. I also rent movies from Blockbuster online when I want to watch a movie.

Why Disney won't matter in HD DVD/Blu Ray fight?

Simply because slight/minor scratches render the new discs unplayable. By unplayable without pauses, skips, or flat out freezing.

I've complained to Blockbuster about receiving the same movie 3 times in a row and each and every one has scratches all over it rendering the movie un-enjoyable/playable to me.

Most parents I know (not all parents) let their children have their own DVD player and play their own collection of movies.

I've seen SD DVDs with lots of scratches and you can still play the movie from start to finish.

I am guessing that the reason why the HD/Blu Ray discs are having problems is because of the data being alot closer(denser) to each track.

All the parents I know would happily buy the movie once. But once they find out that they have to buy it 3-5 times they won't buy them anymore. It has to happen once for them to stop. I know because I would stop. I'm so frustrated with the Blockbuster experience in Hi Def.

And for those of you that say that you haven't experienced this yet.... you just wait. I was like that too until now.

Remember this post the next time your child, or friend's child ruins a HD/Blu Ray disc. This is ridiculous.

Most parents I know (not all parents) let their children have their own DVD player and play their own collection of movies.

I've seen SD DVDs with lots of scratches and you can still play the movie from start to finish.

Remember this post the next time your child, or friend's child ruins a HD/Blu Ray disc. This is ridiculous.

My 5 year old son has no problems at all putting in a movie into either an HD or BD device. He picks it out, takes the disc out properly and will put it away once it's done.

Maybe my situation is different, but you have to instill in them to take care of their stuff.

I also don't hold these disk highly as far as getting upset that it has a scratch. if I ever get to that point, I can always buy a new copy.

Have you ever used a new BD? Scratches and BD don't belong in the same sentence unless you are very careless with a disc. Any jerk can mess up a rental disc.

Have you ever used a new BD? Scratches and BD don't belong in the same sentence unless you are very careless with a disc. Any jerk can mess up a rental disc.

Yep, that bd being highly scratchable is nothing more than a myth. HD-DVD can't win without Disney.

I must agree. BD's are pretty tough!!!!

never had a problem with any bd disc. They are much tougher than SD and hd dvd's. I fail to see the connection between a kid scratching a disc = disney dont matter in the format war??

Have you ever used a new BD? Scratches and BD don't belong in the same sentence unless you are very careless with a disc. Any jerk can mess up a rental disc.

Yes I have NEW Blu Ray and HD DVD discs with zero scratches. I too take care of my discs. But to expect a child to handle them exactly like you or I is ridiculous. It will happen i don't care how careful they are. We (forum members) are not the majority of users when it comes to DVDs.

I resent the fact that you believe anyone who scratches a disc is jerk. You make it sound like they do it on purpose. Accidents can happen.

The whole point is that children will scratch discs. And when Disney charges $20-$30 per disc, I believe parents would rather use Standard Def DVDs, than to repeatedly replace scratched blu ray/hd discs.

We are not the rule here... we are the exception. Be closed minded all you want. This will make an impact.

Disney is more than just family and kiddie movies. They produce many non-family films (t.g. The Prestige, The Sixth Sense, etc.). They also own the Miramax catalog.

Background: First let me say that I don't care who wins or loses. I just want one format. I have both a HD DVD and Blu Ray drive for my HTPC. I also rent movies from Blockbuster online when I want to watch a movie.


....
you failed to mention what disks were scratched and unplayable. I have yet to see a scratched BD.

PS have you ever thought the playback issues are with your HTPC and not the disks or format?

I actually think Disney is important. If they go neutral, that will be a big boost for HD DVD ...

http://disney.go.com/disneyvideos/dvdsupport/faq.html

How do I replace a damaged DVD?
If you accidentally damage or break one of your Disney DVDs, you can get a replacement disc for a nominal charge of $6.95.

Please mail in your damaged DVD (along with DVD case and full packaging), a Check or Money order for $6.95 (made payable to WDHE), along with your Contact Information (Name, Address, and Phone Number) to:

Replacement Program
PO Box 3100
Neenah, WI 54957-3100.

Very consumer-friendly policy. If you somehow damage your Blu-Ray disc (highly unlikely in my opinion given the special coating), I'm sure Disney will happily exchange it for a nominal S&H fee.

edit: checked Fox and Universal home pages. Looks like most studios do have a replacement program for a small S&H fee.

The chidreens movies on disney is only small portion of their over all libary so kids won't make the diffrence. I think if thay are shown how to use the discs then all is good.

But rental are hard becase their always those few pepole that don't care and ruin the discs for the rest of us.

I think what will happen is a program will be made that alowws pepole to back up Bds. When the blank media becomes cheep enough anyway. I know a few who do this with DVD. Backup all the "vault" movies and give the kids the backup

....
you failed to mention what disks were scratched and unplayable. I have yet to see a scratched BD.

PS have you ever thought the playback issues are with your HTPC and not the disks or format?

Does it matter what discs? X-Men United on Blu Ray... and Superman Returns on HD DVD both had problems with scratches using the Blockbuster rental program.

I have a Sony Blu Ray drive, and the XBOX 360 HD drive. And no it's not my HTPC as I did recieve a Blu Ray X-Men United that didn't have many scratches and it played flawlessly the entire movie.

I agree with many who have stated that BDs are much more durable. I've yet to see a scratch on a BD, whether purchased or rented. Now I will note that the few BDs I have rented were done so within the first two weeks of release. Something that's been out awhile longer may tell a different story. HD DVDs OTOH are easily scratched which is a real shame. I have had HD DVD rentals with small glitches when played on my previous HD-A1. I haven't rented any since purchasing my HD-A2 yet so I can't comment on its ability to overlook scratches.

As for Disney, it can only help Blu-ray to have them in their corner.

http://disney.go.com/disneyvideos/dvdsupport/faq.html



Very consumer-friendly policy. If you somehow damage your Blu-Ray disc (highly unlikely in my opinion given the special coating), I'm sure Disney will happily exchange it for a nominal S&H fee.

edit: checked Fox and Universal home pages. Looks like most studios do have a replacement program for a small S&H fee.

Well that answers that. Glad to see some studios backing their products. Now if they would just include TrueHD and DTS Master on all thier discs we won't have to buy another round of discs.

Thanks for the info by the way. That is good news.

Well that answers that. Glad to see some studios backing their products. Now if they would just include TrueHD and DTS Master on all thier discs we won't have to buy another round of discs.Disney tends to include PCM. In fact, I think they might have it on every release so far. So, you won't have to buy another round of discs from them for TrueHD or DTS HD-MA, that are just compressed forms of that PCM, unless there is something else you are looking for (like 24 bit instead of 16, since they use 16 on many of these).

--Darin

Disney's & PIXAR's classic animation library is worth billions in sales. Disney means A LOT to Blu-ray.

Why Disney won't matter in HD DVD/Blu Ray fight?

Simply because slight/minor scratches render the new discs unplayable. By unplayable without pauses, skips, or flat out freezing.Blu-ray requires a certain level of hardness with the disc surface and personally speaking I have yet to rent a Blu-ray disc that didn't play perfectly. As such you should actually have less problems with Blu-ray discs than you had with DVD discs though of course anything can be damaged with enough force.

What does DVD scratch have to do with Blu-ray?

I have a different theory as to why Disney being BD exclusive won't help BD as much as people think.

So Disney releases a film on BD. Someone buys the disc for his kids (they'd get a kick out of cinderella on bd) except it won't work in the expedition dvd player. So if they don't already have it, they'd have to buy the DVD version of the movie in addition to the BD one.

I know that portable BD or HDDVD players make little sense since you don't gain much in the way of PQ or audio. However, if the idea is for these formats to _replace_ and not merely _supplement_ DVD, you've got to be able to play them in your car or when you take trips and have a portable player- you won't need 2 discs (the HDDVD hybrid would actually help here). The players would be less capable because there'd be no need- the only point of this is to allow the consumer to play the disc on the included, crappy LCD. (unless the portability allowed me to connect it to other tvs like in a hotel room).

Note that the hard coat applied to most BD discs is also perfectly compatible with HD DVD, DVD, and even CD. There's nothing intrinsic to BD that makes it more scratch proof - it just needs the coating to be viable due to the short focal length.

A Disney or Criterion could easily make their HD DVD discs with a hard coat as well if they felt they could charge a slight premimum for that, or they'd save money with lower returns.

Does it matter what discs? X-Men United on Blu Ray... and Superman Returns on HD DVD both had problems with scratches using the Blockbuster rental program.

my question was meant a bit more general. I wanted to know what you based your conclusion on. In your OP you only mentioned one title you returned 3x and nothing else. Just wanted to know what experience you based it on. 1 movie on on one format or hundreds of movies split on both.

I have a Sony Blu Ray drive, and the XBOX 360 HD drive. And no it's not my HTPC as I did receive a Blu Ray X-Men United that didn't have many scratches and it played flawlessly the entire movie.

I have yet to see a scratched BD (let alone many) my 1 year old nephew even opened one of my cases and dropped the movie on the floor and then stepped on it (not like in a mean way but his dad ran towards him when he saw that he dropped the disk and most likely startled him), He came back and said "I can't believe you are so relaxed about it" I answered him "Don't worry, look", I showed him the disk, " no scratches, BD has a special coat that makes them harder to scratch" (well at least something like that).

Note that the hard coat applied to most BD discs is also perfectly compatible with HD DVD, DVD, and even CD. There's nothing intrinsic to BD that makes it more scratch proof - it just needs the coating to be viable due to the short focal length.

A Disney or Criterion could easily make their HD DVD discs with a hard coat as well if they felt they could charge a slight premimum for that, or they'd save money with lower returns.

There is one for recordable DVD but I don't know if TDK (or anyone else) made one for HD DVD. Also I don't think any replicator offers it for HD DVD or even if any replication lines out there could support it if they wanted to (obviously both of those could change in the future). As for BD a disk can’t be sold without it.

There is one for recordable DVD but I don't know if TDK (or anyone else) made one for HD DVD. Also I don't think any replicator offers it for HD DVD or even if any replication lines out there could support it if they wanted to (obviously both of those could change in the future). As for BD a disk can’t be sold without it.
The hard coat is required for BD because the discs simply wouldn't be reliable enough without it. The thicker substrate on DVD and HD DVD means they're much less vulnerable to scratches, so it hasn't been needed. But it's still an optical disc, and would work fine. I could see a Blockbuster or Netflix paying extra for it if they felt it would be useful for their rental discs.

The hard coat is required for BD because the discs simply wouldn't be reliable enough without it. The thicker substrate on DVD and HD DVD means they're much less vulnerable to scratches, so it hasn't been needed. But it's still an optical disc, and would work fine. I could see a Blockbuster or Netflix paying extra for it if they felt it would be useful for their rental discs.

It is hard to apply to the disc and raises the cost and failure rate of the media that it is applied to. No one uses it that doesn't have to use it.

I could see a Blockbuster or Netflix paying extra for it if they felt it would be useful for their rental discs.


rental companies don't have special disks, and I don't think (even if the rentals would pay a bit more) studios would be willing to make a few thousand copies just for rental.

The thicker substrate on DVD and HD DVD means they're much less vulnerable to scratches
not vulnarable, just slightly less affected. A scratch on a BD casts a larger shadow because it is closer to the data layer.

so it hasn't been needed
funny this guy started the thread because he thinks all the scratches are messing his playback


But it's still an optical disc, and would work fine.

not sure what his means, but
1) why did TDK develop a slightly different formula for BD they called DURABIS 2?
2) won't the machine need to make a slightly thinner top 1/2 and then be able to apply the hard coat?

Disney matters, however when they start releasing on HD DVD I wonder if they'll still matter as much ;)

People are setting up their children with HD players and their own discs? If you have the money for that, and don't want to "waste" your time teaching these kids to take care of stuff, you deserve scratched disks. If dvds, witch are cheap and easily backed up, aren't good enough for some peoples kids, again, TEACH THEM TO TAKE CARE OF STUFF. Sorry, but is it Disneys job to make things indestructable so parents can yet again blame others for their lack of teaching their children responsability?
I know these were rentals (what do you expect from rentals?) but your point seems to be that parents with kids who cant take a disk out of a box, and put it in a player, without fataly scratching the thing (in BDs case its hard to scratch to so what are these kids doing with them and wheres the parents?) are so numerous as to cause Disney problems with regular sales?

I actually kind of agree but for a different reason. Disney animation wont matter in the current battle because kids dont care about HD. They dont care about the extra resolution and advanced audio codecs. Mirimax titles will matter, because they appeal to an older set and adults.

Heck a 4 year old watching Mary Poppins or Cars or whatever, doesnt care, and probably wont even notice the difference between SD and HD. They want to watch the movie, and that is it.

Parents are not going to shell out the extra money for their kids either.

Disney was important to SD DVD because DVD was easy - no rewinding, Quick - you could quickly jump to the child's favorite scene, and it didnt wear out.

Any one who has or had kids, will realize this.

Disney animation does matter because adults buy it also, even those without childen. It won't decide the format war singlehandedly, but it will matter.

Disney animation does matter because adults buy it also, even those without childen. It won't decide the format war singlehandedly, but it will matter.

Not to mention Kill Bill, Tombstone ect ect and hundreds of other titles that are not animated.
Disney is huge in this...and your absuolutely lying to yourself if you think otherwise.

Assayer,

Sure, there are some adults that buy it for themselves, but I would bet it is a small percentage of overall sales. People buy most of the Disney stuff for their kids and like I said, kids dont really care.

as soon as a kid knows the difference between SD and HD, he will be old enough to take care of disks.

Assayer,

Sure, there are some adults that buy it for themselves, but I would bet it is a small percentage of overall sales. People buy most of the Disney stuff for their kids and like I said, kids dont really care.

The poll in the BD software section has Disney voted the best studio so far.
So obviously Disney is huge.

Note that the hard coat applied to most BD discs is also perfectly compatible with HD DVD, DVD, and even CD.Certainly, but the main benefit of HD DVD is the fact that it is cheaper to replicate. As such I seriously doubt we will ever see HD DVD movies with hard coating.


The hard coat is required for BD because the discs simply wouldn't be reliable enough without it.True, but with the level of hardness required from Blu-ray discs they are actually more durable than DVD discs. On the other hand from what I have heard HD DVD discs actually fare a bit worse than DVD discs.

Yep, that bd being highly scratchable is nothing more than a myth. HD-DVD can't win without Disney.

I have not yet jumped into the high def disc arena as of yet, but disney does have pulling power for me, in just a short few weeks pirates will be out on bd, my family loves these movies. The one thing I have been watching is the release information from high def digest, and if one was to judge the number of released not to mention the really big hit movies, you would probably go bd, they seem to be more aggressively releasing more movies than hd-dvd. I hope to make a decision by June 1st on bd or hd-dvd, my local best buy seams to be completely in the blu ray camp as there is very little in the way of hd-dvd demo's compared to blu.

earz,

First, that poll lumps all of Disney, and I said that I didnt think that the animation would be critical, like it was for SD DVD. I did say that the other studios (e.g., Mirimax) would be important.

Also, the poll is in terms of quality of releases, not necessarily just what they are releasing, hence it is not directly relevant to the discussion.

Heck a 4 year old watching Mary Poppins or Cars or whatever, doesnt care, and probably wont even notice the difference between SD and HD. They want to watch the movie, and that is it.

1) I am not sure how much a 4 year old (looking at my niece and when my nephews were here age) would just sit for a long movie like Mary Poppins.

2) so you will just plop your 4 year old and leave the room? You won't watch it with them at least once?


I have bought many animations and "kid" movies. I watch them with my nieces and nephews when they are here visiting.

I can't imagine anyone leaving a young kid by itself in their HT.

funny this guy started the thread because he thinks all the scratches are messing his playback

Well yes that is the ONLY reason why I have problems. My HTPC is a Quad Core 6700, nVidia 8800GTS, 2 GB PC8500 DDR2 on Xp.

I've rented over 40 movies on Blu Ray and HD DVD and the only ones that had problems were scratched discs. My playback is flawless with ZERO stutters, ZERO banding on discs with no scratches.

Helps to have experience before speaking about something you don't appear to know about (did you actually build a HTPC and test Blu Ray and HD DVD playback?) Did you know that your Blu Ray player is just a PC inside a square box? We'll see utimately what happens down the road. People seem to think I'm bashing Blu Ray.... I'm not. I have both drives and and decrypt both. I get to enjoy both... and pick the one that has the best picture/sound when studios "cripple" one format over the other (regardless of which direction).

It was simple a statement based on my experience, and the thoughts of my friends/parents on the Disney thing when they witnessed what happend. I never asked if people agreed or not. Never asked anyone not to support the flavor of the month.

Disney does matter, they won't go neutral, and my Blu-ray discs are hardier than my HDDVDs, but then that's what one should expect from a mandated hard coat. I wish it was an option I could have had for my HDDVDs if not my regular DVDs.

Jim HTPC: relax, you missed the point completely. Ben said scratches are not an issue. I pointed out that the only reason that this thread exists is because scratches were an issue to you.

you should pay attention to the discussion, that is why I quoted Ben and then replied to it.

As for your question, no I don't have a BD HTPC. But I have had HTPCs in the past (or at least used a PC for A/V and as a PVR) and sometimes it did mess up a bit, the question when asked the first time was a normal post. Except for your little rant in the first post and somehow making a link to Disney there was no info.

Also, Superman Returns had some bad disc pressings, so if that is the title you had to replace 3 times it may not even be related to scratches. I had a very scratched up copy of the matador from netflix at my house this weekend, played perfectly.

My 5 year old son has no problems at all putting in a movie into either an HD or BD device. He picks it out, takes the disc out properly and will put it away once it's done.

Maybe my situation is different, but you have to instill in them to take care of their stuff.

I also don't hold these disk highly as far as getting upset that it has a scratch. if I ever get to that point, I can always buy a new copy.
My 4 year old plays pogo on my laptop all the time, also changes PS3 games without difficulty. I guess if you allow your kids to handle things hard enought to scratch a blu-ray disc, which is what Disney backs, then I wouldnt suggest letting your kid touch anything worth more than bout 3.99.

My 3 year old son can now use the PS3 for movies. (eject current disc, insert new disc, then press play on the remote when the menu comes up)

My 5 year old daughter can easily work the PS3, the TiVo S3, and switch between them on the receiver.

The are both very careful with the discs, and they like to work that stuff on their own.

Our TV is in the family room and we watch movies as a family, the only time the kids would be watching TV without us is when we were getting dinner ready.

Really the only BD movies I plan to buy (other than a very select few must owns) are the Disney classics and the Pixar movies. These are movies that will be watched over and over and enjoyed by the whole family in HD, unlike 95% of the releases so far on either format.

ps. We already own every Disney animated DVD that we want to own and has been available in the last 5 years. I will not hesitate to rebuy them on BD when they are released.

BD has a hard coating to prevent this. Every BD I've ever received from Netflix has been immaculate. They were completely indistinguishable from a brand new disk. Every BD I've ever rented from Blockbuster is the same story.

Disney does matter, they won't go neutral...

What is with some people stating this as absolute fact? We know Disney was involved with HD DVD development in some way, we know they will follow the money, and we know they have a history of jumping ship in that case (DIVX.)

Ive been renting BD's from blockbuster, and ive only seen 2 issues so far out of many, many discs! Both were Reservoir Dogs blu-ray! The first one had a gigantic hand made deep scratch in the shape of a square. I could see the marks someone did with a knife. Right next to it, was a hand carved Nazi logo! I dont know what kind of person rented the disc, and id rather not know. The next one they mailed me (reservoir dogs again), came cracked in half, like someone put something 500lbs ontop of the disc. That ended my quest for Reservoir Dogs blu-ray and i just went and bought it lol. Other then that, ive NEVER had a single issue with any BD disc from blockbuster. All have played from start to finish perfectly!

Ive been renting BD's from blockbuster, and ive only seen 2 issues so far out of many, many discs! Both were Reservoir Dogs blu-ray! The first one had a gigantic hand made deep scratch in the shape of a square. I could see the marks someone did with a knife. Right next to it, was a hand carved Nazi logo! I dont know what kind of person rented the disc, and id rather not know. The next one they mailed me (reservoir dogs again), came cracked in half, like someone put something 500lbs ontop of the disc. That ended my quest for Reservoir Dogs blu-ray and i just went and bought it lol. Other then that, ive NEVER had a single issue with any BD disc from blockbuster. All have played from start to finish perfectly!

See thats what he means. His kids are hell bent on carving swastikas into everything, and even BD's hard coat can't handle it.

I do not have many contacts in this industry, but I DO have one who is high in the chain at Disney. They aren't going neutral, and it doesn't matter how much crying HD-DVD fans do.

we know they will follow the money

Presumably thats why they're not going neutral. Or do you not follow the sales numbers?

What is with some people stating this as absolute fact? We know Disney was involved with HD DVD development in some way, we know they will follow the money, and we know they have a history of jumping ship in that case (DIVX.)

Yes we know Disney was involved with HD DVD. They lobbied to have region coding added to the spec, and HD DVD declined to do so. We all know how that turned out for HD DVD. If anyone is going to "follow the money" it will be Universal to Blu-ray. It isn't lost on them that Blu-ray releases outsell their HD DVD counterparts.

theFlux,

If anyone is going to "follow the money" it will be Universal to Blu-ray. It isn't lost on them that Blu-ray releases outsell their HD DVD counterparts.

Except that "the money" is chump change. For the first quarter, combined sales of all HDM amounted to $30 million dollars. At that level there is no real money to follow.

I use my BR disks as coasters & use them under my furniture to protect my hardwood flooring. Guests are always amazed when we're ready to watch a movie & I pick up their coaster, wipe it off on my pants, and pop it into the player.

Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with, nor is this an official representation of Operation Phydrallics.

I use my BR disks as coasters & use them under my furniture to protect my hardwood flooring. Guests are always amazed when we're ready to watch a movie & I pick up their coaster, wipe it off on my pants, and pop it into the player.

Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with, nor is this an official representation of Operation Phydrallics.

When you have 10 beelion dollars you can do whatever you want ;)

Here's for stating the obvious.

PotC 1&2 will be Disney's biggest known movie release from a boxoffice viewpoint (to date), but they are still catalog since the DVDs were released earlier. Apocalypto however is same day as DVD.

I think week for May22nd should be a good test of how many people are willing to buy BD movies since between apocalypto being same day as DVD and how recent PotC2 is, anyone who wants to buy disks will likely pick something --- the total demographics also appear to be covered well by the family oriented PotCs and the R-rated and extremely violent Apocalypto.

If the disks don't sell well enough to threaten CR's sales numbers, then I agree Disney doesn't matter. If otoh they move a lot of disks between these three titles, then you have to agree Disney matters. A lot.

---

My take on the studios going neutral is that people who are crushed the most by CES07 are the ones who believe Disney was going neutral, lets not have more cranky people around. Similarly, I don't believe Universal is going neutral anymore in 2007.

With this thought in mind, if you want Universal movies, you're gonna have to buy a HD DVD player, and if you want disney (or fox or sony/mgm), you're gonna need a BD player.

That's the best way to avoid bitter crushing disappointment ruining otherwise good opportunities to watch very nice movies at home.

If the disks don't sell well enough to threaten CR's sales numbers, then I agree Disney doesn't matter. If otoh they move a lot of disks between these three titles, then you have to agree Disney matters. A lot.Even if those discs don't sell close to as well as CR, POTC:3 and some others could do much better than CR later on. I wouldn't expect "Apocalypto" to sell in the same league as CR ("Apocalypto only brought in $50 million at the US box office) and those other 2 are catalog, as you mentioned. If you meant those 3 combined selling as well as CR by itself, then I think there is a good chance of that.

--Darin

theFlux,



Except that "the money" is chump change. For the first quarter, combined sales of all HDM amounted to $30 million dollars. At that level there is no real money to follow.

I agree completely. Current sales of both formats are pathetic compared to DVD, even at DVD's launch. However, of that minuscule amount of money, Blu-ray is generating more of it, so if it were to be followed it would be to Blu-ray.

I use my BR disks as coasters & use them under my furniture to protect my hardwood flooring. Guests are always amazed when we're ready to watch a movie & I pick up their coaster, wipe it off on my pants, and pop it into the player.



Personally I use them to protect my tables while welding. They get a bit of slag on them, but I just toss them in the furnace and it melts right off. After that they are good as new. The other day I was caught in the middle of a gangwar with the police. I would have died for sure, but I happened to be carrying my entire Blu-ray collection. I strapped them all over my body. I deflected 417 bullets, 75 pieces of shrapnel, and 5 extremely vicious knives. Not a single title skipped during playback after that.

I do not have many contacts in this industry, but I DO have one who is high in the chain at Disney. They aren't going neutral, and it doesn't matter how much crying HD-DVD fans do.

We don't care. All the old Disney movies look just fine on standard DVD. I'm not going to re-buy them in either HD disc format.

As far as kids go, they could care less if Dumbo is in HD.

Disney is deluding themselves if they think most consumers care so much they will go blu-ray vs HD-DVD based solely on Disney's allegiance. Some may fit this category. Certainly not all.

We don't care. All the old Disney movies look just fine on standard DVD. I'm not going to re-buy them in either HD disc format.

As far as kids go, they could care less if Dumbo is in HD.

Disney is deluding themselves if they think most consumers care so much they will go blu-ray vs HD-DVD based solely on Disney's allegiance. Some may fit this category. Certainly not all.

Um correct me if I'm wrong, but 3d animated films have consistently been getting 5 star PQ ratings, and are usually "Tier 0" releases. Don't pretend you don't want Pixar films in HD. As far as their really old animated works, you're probably correct. Unfortunately for you, that is a small drop in the bucket compared to the large amount of content they have available.

Yeah the older stuff is not going to be any sort of big deal if released in one of the HD formats. And of course you know they will.

The pixar stuff is perfect for putting into an HD format since the source is already purely digital (video wise).

Since its was a pure digital transfer even onto DVD tho, the DVD's really look great of movies like Toy Story and A Bug's Life. How much improvement are we really going to see? I would likely buy at least one to compare out of curiosity. But replacing my whole library of DVD's isn't something I want to do. Good upconversion is adequate for most older material. (IMHO) There are only certain movies I think I'll re-purchase in HD formats. Star Wars, Star Trek, some other sci-fi movies I think I will want in HD. Battlestar Galactica (new).

Now, if I did not already own all these titles, and I was getting into and HD format, I would be somewhat more concerned that Disney is not going to support customers who choose HD-DVD. I think if one side really becomes dominate, that the hold-out studios, Even Sony Pictures, will ultimately, finally, release titles on the HD-DVD format. There's too much money to loose if they don't.

For those hold-out studios (releases), if this becomes a long and protracted format war, I will simply resign myself to purchasing Standard DVD's for those. At least half my purchases will be in an HD format. That to me is better than none at all, which is all this stupid format war has ultimately accomplished already for millions of consumers who are READY for this technology.

Even if those discs don't sell close to as well as CR, POTC:3 and some others could do much better than CR later on. I wouldn't expect "Apocalypto" to sell in the same league as CR ("Apocalypto only brought in $50 million at the US box office) and those other 2 are catalog, as you mentioned. If you meant those 3 combined selling as well as CR by itself, then I think there is a good chance of that.

--Darin
PotC2 was released on DVD already, the only reasons it has a shot is that (1) it is relatively new, (2) BD owners probably held back buying the DVD once they were certain of the BD release (3) there's more BD player owners now than when CR was released (4) PotC2 was #1 in 2006 and outgrossed CR by almost 3:1 in N.A. (5) It made 1.066B worldwide making it the #3 highest grossing movie of all time.

Only Titanic and LOTR3 made more, but these movies were from 2003 and 1997, which reduces the fraction of people who are more likely to buy the disks.

More trivia:
Until PotC3 and Spidey3 get their turn, PotC2 is the single highest worldwide grossing format exclusive title, if this was released same day with DVD, there is no question it will beat CR in sales.

The highest N.A. grossing format exclusive title? Star Wars EP4 (a very old catalog). :D
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/

Until PotC3 and Spidey3 get their turn, PotC2 is the single highest worldwide grossing format exclusive title, if this was released same day with DVD, there is no question it will beat CR in sales.I definitely don't disagree with that. But, given that it already came out on DVD, if it doesn't sell well enough to threaten CR's numbers, it won't make me say that Disney doesn't matter.

--Darin

I definitely don't disagree with that. But, given that it already came out on DVD, if it doesn't sell well enough to threaten CR's numbers, it won't make me say that Disney doesn't matter.

--Darin
Given the record of how catalog releases are doing on both formats, I'd reluctantly agree with you.

Except that "the money" is chump change. For the first quarter, combined sales of all HDM amounted to $30 million dollars. At that level there is no real money to follow.


Which is even less incentive to open up for the format that consecutively brings in from one half to one quarter the sales per week and falling behind farther and farther every week.

DVD didn't start out destroying VHS sales, either... DVD sales didn't pass VHS players until 2003 (7 years after launch), after one of the biggest and most rapid periods of adoption ever. To expect the same from High Def isn't realistic when HDTV pentration isn't that high yet. But does anyone really doubt Blu-ray will eventually pass DVD?

The only real point of contention is whether HDDVD can coexist or not... I won't be displeased if it does attain enough of a following for a laserdisc like appeal, but it wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't. I have no doubts at all about Blu-ray's survival.

Every big studio matters, and Disney is a big studio.

theFlux,



Except that "the money" is chump change. For the first quarter, combined sales of all HDM amounted to $30 million dollars. At that level there is no real money to follow.

Well, yes, but as had been argued ad nauseam, Universal has a unique power - to kill HD-DVD. If they go neutral, and I'm not saying they will any time soon, despite what I fervently hope for, the war is over, and I'd bet big that mass adoption will increase significantly after the mainstream media reports that there is one winner.

Well, yes, but as had been argued ad nauseam, Universal has a unique power - to kill HD-DVD. If they go neutral, and I'm not saying they will any time soon, despite what I fervently hope for, the war is over, and I'd bet big that mass adoption will increase significantly after the mainstream media reports that there is one winner.

So who is this winner?

Is that BD based on the fact that they have sold a few more discs with six times the installed base?

Is that BD based on the fact that The Departed and Happy Feet sold in similar numbers for each format with the HD DVDs netting Warner a $5 premium over the BD? Well I say similar numbers, but when installed base is considered both films sold about four times better on HD DVD.

I suppose Blu-ray is the victor because HD DVD stand-alones are outselling BD stand-alones at a ratio of four to one.

I guess Blu-ray is the victor because Sony said they won back in January. You know just like they said price was irrelevant to PS3 sales.

Perhaps the media has not picked up on this “story” because it’s just the standard Sony hype they’ve been seeing since Sony took on Curtis Mathes in the 70s.

Back on topic: Disney matters, but I think in the HDM market the studios they control (Miramax, Touchstone, Buena Vista, et al) will count for more. Neither me nor my kids care about Cars, but Pirates will be missed. Not missed as much as present and future HD DVD exclusives like The Mummy Films, King Kong and The JP Series, but missed nonetheless.

So who is this winner?

Is that BD based on the fact that they have sold a few more discs with six times the installed base?

Yes. And your definition of "a few more" must be different than mine and Nielsen's.

Is that BD based on the fact that The Departed and Happy Feet sold in similar numbers for each format with the HD DVDs netting Warner a $5 premium over the BD? Well I say similar numbers, but when installed base is considered both films sold about four times better on HD DVD.

Yes. A sale is a sale. Installed base and attach rate mean nothing when HD DVD sells 20,000 less copies of the same movie. The flipper disc also costs more to manufacture than a traditional HD DVD.

I suppose Blu-ray is the victor because HD DVD stand-alones are outselling BD stand-alones at a ratio of four to one.

Yes, I guess, but this wasn't really a bullet point. The definition of a stand-alone is that it does not require additional hardware to work. The 360 add-on is not a stand-alone, but the PS3 is. By that metric more stand-alone Blu-ray players sold last month than HD DVD players did since inception. You may mean dedicated players, and if that is the case why are all the HD DVD dedicated players not selling more disks at a 4:1 ratio? You can't just lop of the PS3 because you don't like it.

I guess Blu-ray is the victor because Sony said they won back in January. You know just like they said price was irrelevant to PS3 sales.

No, thats not the reason, but Toshiba isn't exactly innocent here either. Companies have PR departments for a reason.

Perhaps the media has not picked up on this “story” because it’s just the standard Sony hype they’ve been seeing since Sony took on Curtis Mathes in the 70s.

Back on topic: Disney matters, but I think in the HDM market the studios they control (Miramax, Touchstone, Buena Vista, et al) will count for more. Neither me nor my kids care about Cars, but Pirates will be missed. Not missed as much as present and future HD DVD exclusives like The Mummy Films, King Kong and The JP Series, but missed nonetheless.

It is too bad you have to miss out on the HD versions of good films. Hopefully this format war will be over soon and you'll get to enjoy all 8 major studios on the victor.

Disney animation does matter because adults buy it also, even those without childen. It won't decide the format war singlehandedly, but it will matter.
Exactly. When I went to see Cars and the Incredibles in the theater, less than half of the people in the theater had kids with them. I suspect around half of Disney DVD sales are to people with kids. Just from an informal poll of people I know.

Remember this post the next time your child, or friend's child ruins a HD/Blu Ray disc. This is ridiculous.
I could care less if the kid messes up a $20 disc. I wouldn't want them touching a $400-$600 player. There's worse things than a scratches disc. I seriously think you missed the real problem with this one.

Exactly. When I went to see Cars and the Incredibles in the theater, less than half of the people in the theater had kids with them. I suspect around half of Disney DVD sales are to people with kids. Just from an informal poll of people I know.

I agree with you. My wife loves Disney animated films. We have no children and yet own many Disney DVDs. I'm not sure where the idea that Disney films are sold only to parents giving them to their kids first emerged from, but it is ridiculous.

I agree with you. My wife loves Disney animated films. We have no children and yet own many Disney DVDs. I'm not sure where the idea that Disney films are sold only to parents giving them to their kids first emerged from, but it is ridiculous.

Indeed. Disney has some great films. Lion King is one of my all time favorites for one example. Plenty of others as well :D

parents let kids to play with your $95 dvd player. majority of them do not let their kids to play with their $999 players. so yeah. Disney will do extremely well DVD sales for pirates but not Blu-ray. Frankly after watching Pirates 2. I dont plan to watch Pirates 3. I prefer adult comedy to children comedy

disney = kids that is their brand.

PotC3.. cant wait! The trailer by itself is a sight to behold.

I didnt quite read the entire thread but I am sure someone mentioned how releasing kids' movies on the allegedly easier-to-scratch hd-dvds is definitely not a good idea, if releasing on the tougher BD is not.

So who is this winner?

Is that BD based on the fact that they have sold a few more discs with six times the installed base?

....


I actually made it a point not to say who would win. I know who I want to win but that's not really relevant. But Universal can kill HD-DVD, whereas no single studio can do that to Blu-ray. I suppose you might say Sony could, but that's not a straight comparison, as we're not talking about Toshiba backing away from HD-DVD.

But enough about who the winner might be - the point is that there has to be a winner for HD to defeat SD.

I could care less if the kid messes up a $20 disc. I wouldn't want them touching a $400-$600 player. There's worse things than a scratches disc. I seriously think you missed the real problem with this one.

I have a $500 BD player (ps3), the whole family uses it, including my 3 year old who can swap out movies on it (he likes the touch sensitive buttons and pretty much anything I like).

Also I plan to buy the crap out of some Disney BDs, so far we only own Ice Age the Meltdown. I use Blockbuster Online and since most of the stuff available so far isn't stuff we are going to watch over and over it works very well.

disney = kids that is their brand.

Yeah but they still control movies like Kill Bill and Sin City

More trivia:
Until PotC3 and Spidey3 get their turn, PotC2 is the single highest worldwide grossing format exclusive title, if this was released same day with DVD, there is no question it will beat CR in sales.

The highest N.A. grossing format exclusive title? Star Wars EP4 (a very old catalog). :D
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/

Another piece of trivia... if you adjust for inflation, the highest grossing format exclusive title (in NA) currently released:

The Sting

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

disney = kids that is their brand.And yet their best selling Blu-ray title is "The Prestige" and as of the Nielsen report for up to March 18th, it had sold better than Universal's top title (Serenity), despite that one being for sale for close to 11 months, vs less than 1 month.

Here are their top 5 selling Blu-ray's up to that point according to the report:

1) The Prestige
2) Invincible
3) Gone in 60 Seconds
4) The Guardian
5) Eight Below

They may market their name to kids (and kids at heart), but POTC:2 didn't bring in over a billion dollars at the box office worldwide by just selling tickets to parents taking their kids.

--Darin

Can you play "The Guardian" on any BD player ? It seems that this title is having some problems with the samsumg player. At least according to a video on you tube. Has anybody tried other Disney title ?
Thanks,
Bob

Can you play "The Guardian" on any BD player ? It seems that this title is having some problems with the samsumg player. At least according to a video on you tube. Has anybody tried other Disney title ?
Thanks,
Olivier

Olivier,

Read your other two posts and all three seek guidance on issues with Samsung BD Players which, apparently, you are considering buying.

I'd respectfully suggest that your best bet for finding those answers lies in the BD-P1000 and BD-P1200 review threads (BD Player Forum). If you ask your questions there and have a little patience, you're likely to get more opinions than you ever wanted ;)

Ken

Thanks, I am new to the forum, so I will do this. I am just in a hurry to buy one :)

Another piece of trivia... if you adjust for inflation, the highest grossing format exclusive title (in NA) currently released:

The Sting

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

Wow, tons of Disney movies that I love on that list.

Now hurry up and release some classics for us Mickey!

I have a $500 BD player (ps3), the whole family uses it, including my 3 year old who can swap out movies on it (he likes the touch sensitive buttons and pretty much anything I like).

Also I plan to buy the crap out of some Disney BDs, so far we only own Ice Age the Meltdown. I use Blockbuster Online and since most of the stuff available so far isn't stuff we are going to watch over and over it works very well.

It's the kids sliding that 1/2 peanut butter and jelly sandwich into the disc slot which could prove troublesome in that $500 BD player. :)

It's the kids sliding that 1/2 peanut butter and jelly sandwich into the disc slot which could prove troublesome in that $500 BD player. :)

The only think my kids have killed was my Firefly remote that came with Beyond TV.

My son (then two) dropped it in a pitcher of tea that my wife had on the coffee table. Of course she didn't tell me that until I discovered that is wasn't working.

Everything else, knock on wood, has been fine.

Kids also use my computers, laptop, and TiVo S3. All of which cost more than the PS3.

My son (then two) dropped it in a pitcher of tea that my wife had on the coffee table. Of course she didn't tell me that until I discovered that is wasn't working.Oh, hahaha, that scenario sounds familiar! :D