I have been watching the issues with both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray since their respective releases regarding features and firmware. It has made me question if both were released too soon and not allowed to mature sufficiently in development? I have an almost 10 year old Sony DVP-S7000 DVD player that still plays every DVD I have tried on it. This player was one of the first ones released and still works with discs with all the latest features. Sure it is missing progressive, DTS and upconverting but those weren't really in the original DVD spec as far as I know and aren't required to get discs to work.

With HD-DVD it seems the players were at least hardware feature complete on day one. However from a firmware and software feature standpoint the HD-DVD players still appear to be under development. The first gen Toshiba players are on the sixth firmware release it seems and the second gen on third or fourth. Some of the updates being bug / compatibility fixes and others adding / enabling features that seem to have been in the original spec and should have been in the players.

Blu-Ray is in an even worse position it seems. The first gen and even 1.5 gen players it now seems aren't even hardware complete. Missing features such as dual video decoders and Ethernet which appear to be part of the newer 2.0 Blu-Ray spec. Also as with HD-DVD there have been various firmware updates for most (all?) players to fix bugs and add features that were part of the spec but weren't in the shipping box. The whole confusion around BD-J seems to be a mess as well, such as when it is required and when it will be implemented in software.

What happened this time around? Were the specs not done? Did the manufacturers not properly implement the spec? Are the software producers making discs out of spec, possibly because they couldn't really find out what the spec is? Was it the race between the two camps to get out the door first?

I am sure some will point out that early DVD players had issues as well, especially first and second gen Toshiba. However the fact that some players from that era did work I tend to think it was Toshiba's fault in design / manufacturing.

I am also wondering when this will all be ironed out so those who don't read AVS (and those that do I guess) can feel safe in buying a player that fully supports the spec and won't need upgrading? I look forward to that day.

HDDVD is a complete format with the problems of a new format.
BD is an incomplete format with the problems of a new format, but they will have to go through it several times before it's over.
There is no question that BD was rushed out, and it's spec shows it.

They both came out too soon and are right now trying to ride the coat tails of the HD tvs that are being sold to a limited market.

HD DVD was feature complete and ready to go. Blu-ray was not, but felt compelled to put out something because of HD DVD, otherwise it would have been at least another year or two before Blu-ray would have been released. That is the big difference.

Look, there are even standard DVD players that have been out for a couple of years that still receive firmware updates. There are still standard DVDs that are being released that have issues for whatever reason. Are you saying that standard shouldn't have been released yet either?

With the exception of going from 2.0 TrueHD to 5.1 and some HDi updates -- IMHO most of the Toshiba firmware updates have been in regards to HDCP handshaking, DVI EDID, colorspace and video level issues. And then there is improving error correction for imperfect HD ROM drive reading problems. The types of things that it really takes a large install base to show the issues. Early adopter tax? Sure -- but with ethernet/internet updates not really tough for early adopters. The early majority need not apply. ;)

IMO both formats were indeed rushed to the market. In the very sense that the industry couldn't agree on a single format would be reason enough to state this. The firmware upgrades to each of the formats players are further proof of a rush job. That said, both have improved quite a bit and are well worth the investment if you're big time movie lovers such as my family is. Those who have enough patience to avoid being an early adopter will make out the best though... obviously. :D

Look, there are even standard DVD players that have been out for a couple of years that still receive firmware updates. There are still standard DVDs that are being released that have issues for whatever reason. Are you saying that standard shouldn't have been released yet either?

While there are DVD players that need firmware updating for whatever reason, I would imagine enhanced non DVD-spec features like upconverting, there are also players that can play every DVD on the market without ever needing an update. Like I said I have a 10-year old DVD player that was very much first gen and I have never found a dvd disc that malfunctioned in it. I am sure there are many others that can claim this as well. Fixing features beyond the spec is fine, but at least play this discs from a basic standpoint properly.

Why is the same to much to ask of HD-DVD or Blu-Ray?

Oh and in full disclosure, I have the Xbox 360 HD-DVD and am looking forward due the Samsung dual format player. I definitely want them to succeed.

While there are DVD players that need firmware updating for whatever reason, I would imagine enhanced non DVD-spec features like upconverting, there are also players that can play every DVD on the market without ever needing an update. Like I said I have a 10-year old DVD player that was very much first gen and I have never found a dvd disc that malfunctioned in it. I am sure there are many others that can claim this as well. Fixing features beyond the spec is fine, but at least play this discs from a basic standpoint properly.

Why is the same to much to ask of HD-DVD or Blu-Ray?

Oh and in full disclosure, I have the Xbox 360 HD-DVD and am looking forward due the Samsung dual format player. I definitely want them to succeed.

I think the reason why it is getting hard for the players to play hd and br without issues is we are starting to ask to much from a player.

I really think things would have been better if they started out like basic dvd players. They should have just done hd dvd or bd only. cut out all the other stuff until later. When dvd first came out all the other stuff was slowly added to them through the years.

Yup, both were rushed. They both needed some major kinks in software and replication ironed out first. Right now HD-DVD seemingly has loads of software compatibility problems, whereas Blu-ray is slowly ramping up their BD-50 lines to full capacity causing some delays. BD-J is a sticking point, but it's not like the older Blu-ray discs will stop working, and the older players will still play the main feature with no issues. A lot of this extra stuff is as poofy as a French pastery... a lot of filling.

Give me the best damn PQ/AQ possible and I'm happy with that.

Dan