View Full Version : DIY solutions for a Lens mount
Looking for ideas for a DIY lens mount which will allow for an easy lens removal so I could watch 16:9 material. Something like sled i guess?
wcaughey
05-01-07, 02:30 AM
http://www.firgelliauto.com/product_info.php?products_id=99
A Tubular Actuator. This is actually the cheapest solution I've found for a adjustable lens mount. It even has remote control activation. The 0.7" pers sec speed is acceptable, the 30" stroke is debatable but not a big deal. This sure beats the 2.5k panamorph slide option if cash isn't an easy commodity.
eq_shadimar
05-01-07, 10:29 AM
Many people have used drawer slides for their homemade sleds.
Laters,
Jeff
Ours is made of two 18" ball bearing type drawer glides mounted side by side with the UH380 hanging from it. works extremely well.
evilution
05-01-07, 07:37 PM
Ours is made of two 18" ball bearing type drawer glides mounted side by side with the UH380 hanging from it. works extremely well.
Exact same thing i did to mount my ISCOIII. Had it up there for about 8 months now with no sign of stress on the slides.
Screwed both drawer slides into a 2x4 and put a pipe mount on the other side.
So home made i didnt even paint it :eek:
Here are some pictures of my brothers drawer slide mount. It works well like everone has indicated.
dave1969
06-05-07, 02:44 PM
Where can you buy a lens mount? For the DIY
Where can you buy a lens mount? For the DIY
You can buy one from the various companies that make the lenses such as Panamorph and Prismasonic etc. but they are obscenely expensive, that is why we make our own
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb101/Arwenmark/Picturesapril07128.jpg
McCall, have you got other photos of your CIH set up? Have you emailed the photos to Alan?
Mark
I do have other photos on photobucket that I am going to post in my Mickelodeon Theater thread once I finally get it DONE. which I hope will be soon, been a year now. Then I will also send them to Alan for the CIH set up area.
Cool, can I have a link?
Mark
McCall,
I took a look tonight at your system photos and have to say that your cinema is looking very good.
I love the cinema seating - a very nice touch.
Is the lighting on your screen front or rear light?
Mark
The lights are three cans in front of the screen in the Procenium ceiling. I am still working one the final decorative touches of the theater now, also still have a lot of work in the concession/equipment/DVD storage areas and the LONG hall leading to the theater building. But the main theater room itself will be done soon I HOPE a year is a long time especially when my husband was working on it more or less full time for a few months in the beginning after being laid off. since his new job he has spent most every weekend working on this thing. and as much as we love the theater, it is taking a huge toll on us both.
Yes, it becomes an obsession...
Mark
Scott_R_K
06-18-07, 10:34 PM
Here are some pictures of my brothers drawer slide mount. It works well like everyone has indicated.
Randy ,
Did you use the supplied wood screws that came with the drawer slides or something else ?
I'd like to bolt the slide onto my upper wood PJ support and I'm wondering what kind of hardware people are using . There isn't a lot of space between the slides so something with a very flat head is most likely .
I'll post a pic when I'm done .
Scott............... :)
MichaelCarey
06-21-07, 09:07 PM
I used Igus Drylin N linear rails and carriages for my lens mount.
Not the cheapest solution but they work very well. The only issue is the VERY tight tolerances needed to get them to slide freely. A little bit out of square and they bind up. I have 300mm rails that allow me to slide the lens back and forth, and 600mm rails that the lens carriage is mounted to for the left-right movement. I can also rotate my lens and adjust it's "pitch" and "roll".
I also found some ball bearing slides used in rack mount PC cases that look like they would have worked as well for a whole lot less money.
http://www.users.on.net/~michaelcarey/pics/lens/photos/photo32.jpg
Check the link in my sig for some pictures of my lens (an Aussiemorphic based lens) and the mounting arrangement I devised.
Regards,
Michael.
GetGray
07-01-07, 10:12 PM
My DIY turned into a product (CineSlide). I respectfully disagree with McCall, I don't think it's obscenely priced. But if you want a cheap lens slide, you can do better than drawer slides fairly inexpensively. Watch ebay for some used "linear bearings". New they cost a fortune (Obscene in McCalls book ;)), but people sell them typically out of parted out industrial robotics. Used ones on ebay can be had cheap. THK is a good brand. You typically won't need more than 12" of travel. 2 "trucks" are good for the DIY'er.
As mentioned previously, Igus makes a wide variety of linear bearings. Theirs are plastic bearing based and also pricey as mentioned unless you have direct accounts. I tried several of their linear bearings in the original CineSlide (1) prototypes but chose not to incorporate them due to some performance issues I ran into. They tended to bind some in my testing with long term testing. So I used ball bearing linear bearings (the obscene ones ;)). But for a manual slide Igus should work fine, properly installed. Another popular lens transport uses an Igus W linear bearing rail in their slide, so they appear to be working for someone. I considered selling a "maunal" slide based on the Igus linear bearings, targeted more at the DIY'er, and may in the future, but right now I have my hands full with the CineSlide.
Edit: Didn't meant to poo-poo drawer slides. I'm sure there are high end drawer slides than can work, but most arent' designed to run in a horizontal (flat) config. like a linear bearing.
Cheers, Scott
GetGray (Scott),
I just took a look at the video Art attached in the other thread - NICE WORK :)
Mark
GetGray
07-02-07, 10:19 AM
I just took a look at the video Art attached in the other thread - NICE WORK :)Thanks Mark! Further in that thread Art posted a still photo. The flash was a little hot so it made the CineSlide look a little color washed out, but in real life it's very black; anodized just like the lens. You can see the jet-black IscoIII is washed out in the photo, too. I kidded Art about the video though. He has the CineSlide upside down on the floor and unlevel and is activating one of the 2 12V triggers by hand, with bare wires :eek: :D. Broke every rule in my manual about not playing with it till it's mounted. I would have done the same thing I expect :D:D.
The CineSlide snowballed into so much more than I ever would have done for my own DIY thing. With the (2) 12V triggers and RS32 inputs on the CineSlide II, I had to do a lot of extra electronics work and a good deal more microprocessor programming, but I'm tickled with the end result. If it had stayed a DIY, I might have used the Igus bearings and forgone many of the "perks", but for reliability reasons I just couldn't with something I was going to sell. Glad I did it all now that the R&D is behind me.
For selling vs. DIY I can say definitively that FCC compliance testing was painful ($$$ :mad: ). Now there's some obscene pricing for you! That's one thing you don't always have to worry about if you are a DIYer (only making one for yourself), but if you are gonna sell, or even if you are giving them away to all your friends, it becomes a whole 'nother ballgame with electromagnetic interference compliance testing required (FCC, CE, AU's C-tick, etc.) :(. Fines will bankrupt you without the certs. Even though I passed without incident, I had to pay the $$$ to test and prove it :(.
Best, Scott
WOW thanks for the heads up. That is the CE logo you see on virtually all electrical equipment, correct? I was looking into an actuator for the Aussiemorphic Lens' sled, but that is one reason not to pursue it for now...back to the manual design for a while I think :)
Mark
GetGray
07-02-07, 11:58 AM
WOW thanks for the heads up. That is the CE logo you see on virtually all electrical equipment, correct? Yep, that's it. And CE is even worse than FCC. In Austrailia they require a "C-tick" mark, which is different from CE. Canada has another mark that is required, although their test requirements are the same as the FCC. I *think* C-tick is the same as FCC (radiated emmisions and conducted emissions only) except at 220V vs. 120 for FCC. CE total tests costs $8k to $10k. And that's if you pass. If you don't, it's back to drawing board, then back for another test. If you are selling a million, then the testing can be absorbed, for low volume specialty stuff it bites big time! But alas, if you skip it, the FCC can levy charges of $10,000/day/device for operation out of compliance :eek:
:eek: Ouch! 10 grand per day? :eek:
Mark
GetGray
07-02-07, 02:18 PM
:eek: Ouch! 10 grand per day? :eek:That's what I understood from several sources. As much as I'd like to have skipped the testing, it was way to risky not to do it. Apparently, they are quite serious and unforgiving about their radio space protection. Several of the labs said CE was worse about compliance and enforcement. Of couse the test labs would lead you to believe the worst, but in the unlikely event that 90% of what they said was wrong, it was still too much to risk.
Kinda stinks really, hard on the "little guy". But I guess if my neighbor had some thing-a-ma-gig that hosed my HDTV every time he turned it on, I'd be royally ticked. And we don't want any planes falling from the sky when they fly over one's house ala "Lost" :D.
Good news for DIY (to keep on topic a little ;)) is that at least with the FCC, the gist of the Part 15 rules say it's OK to make an electroinc device ("unintentional radiator") yourself as long as you don't sell it, it's for your own use, and you don't make more than 5. And of course it doesn't interfere with anyone else. One can't even sell a "kit" that someone else could use to make a non-compliant device. They've got all the bases covered and loopholes closed tight. I don't know the EMI rules that apply to DIYers with CE or C-Tick.
Cheers, Scott
Hi Scott,
One can't even sell a "kit" that someone else could use to make a non-compliant device.
Question. Aren't units like the actuator discussed in this thread already tested? From my end, I would simply be mounting the kit to a board. Maybe I am missing the point...
Mark
GetGray
07-02-07, 09:52 PM
Question. Aren't units like the actuator discussed in this thread already tested? From my end, I would simply be mounting the kit to a board. Maybe I am missing the point...Well, the rules vary some by the certifying organization. Mostly they are additive. The FCC for US markets seems the most lienient. Basically if you assemble electronic parts to make something else, then it likely has to be tested (depending on technical details of the device).
They only require a radiated emmissions and conducted emmissions test. Other orgs are much more aggressive. You'd have to read the C-tick rules for their nitty gritty details. Import issues come into play here and for EU countries, CE is the cert. and is a whole different, more aggressive animal. In addition to the tests above you have to do electrostatic discharge suseptability testing, safety testing (like the USA's UL, which isn't a requirement over here), and more. If it is an off-the-shelf unmodified electronic part, then it should be OK. (CE still would still require the safety part of the test if it's an assembled product.) For electronic items, if you add anything that can become an antenna it has to be retested. And the higher the frequency the more problematic because the antennas get shorter and the EMI is harder to contain.
Best example I have is the CineSlide uses a power supply that has every certification in the world. But because I use it in conjunction with something else electronic that can produce a frequency over 9kHz, it has to be retested and certified. Sucks. It depends on what you are assembling. I'm no expert, but I know way more about it than I ever wanted to, now that I've had to go through it.
Thank you for the detailed explanation, I appreciate it. Looks like I have some serious home work ahead...
Mark
I'm building a motorized sled and I'm kinda stuck on how to trigger the actuator remotely. Any Ideas?
I would love to use my Harmony 1000 but i have an 890 also.
thanks in advance
Steve Scherrer
11-15-07, 01:40 PM
As opposed to those who are discussing motorized sleds, etc., my situation is a bit more mundane and low tech.
As others may have seen in my other posts, I am doing CIH a little unconventionally, by combining a 4x3 projector with a Panamorph VC lens AND a DIY HE lens. With the stretch provided by my projector, I can get a very nice 2.35:1 image.
However, trying to incorporate it into our living room is another matter. My projector hangs from the ceiling. In front of it hangs the Panamorph, and then in front of that would have hung the DIY enclosure. However, WAF is a constant issue regarding these things, and it has been requested that I do one of two things:
1. Get the projector to slide from the side of the projector (back against the wall) out in front of the Panamorph, which would require some kind of L-shaped or curved track; or
b. Develop a system whereby the DIY HE lens is removable, since I will only need to put it up if we are settling in for a nice long scope movie.
Any thoughts?
Other issues I am facing. The housing has to have some kind of ability to move backward as well to sit directly in front of, and pretty much be placed in contact with the front face of the Panamorph (this would be to eliminate vignetting issues). I was thinking of having the housing hang from two rotatable "legs" off a main board, whereby the housing itself could then swing backwards to abut the Panamorph, like so:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/untitled-2.jpg
Can't get much more simple than this:
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/1778/hd80andlensvp7.jpg
It's a center under mount slide, a dowel, and a 1x4.
nosdude
01-14-08, 03:10 PM
Here is one that is installed inside a hushbox...
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii209/nosdude/Home%20Theater/Forum7.jpg
Hushbox View:
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii209/nosdude/Home%20Theater/Forum6.jpg
Kelvin1965S
02-20-08, 06:40 AM
I waiting for a used U15 Panamorph I bought to turn up. I don't want to have it permenantly left out as it isn't a dedicated theater room, so I need to work out a way of having a quick detachable fitting for the new lens. I watch a couple of 16:9 HD TV programmes midweek on the PJ and usually watch a film or two over the weekend that typically are 2.35/2.40:1 so I'd only need to pop the lens on at the weekend.
I'm thinking slightly latterally in that I thought about making a flat plate out of MDF or similar that the PJ stands on. Then screwed to the shelf shown in my attached picture and having two drawer sides that pull forwards with a bar of MDF to allow the lens mounting bracket to fix onto, using some 'thumbscrew' type nuts to tighten it. This pull out shelf can be pushed back under the PJ when the lens is not in use. Any other suggestions gratefully received.:)
Slightly off topic, is anyone using a U15 with an AE2000 ( or AE1000)? I know it isn't a very high quality lens from reading up on the AVS archive forums, but I hoping it will work OK as I use a very long throw to minimise the lens area in use. I can't use a HE lens as I've calculated the image will be too wide for my screen, but if the U15 proves too soft, maybe a newer U85 might turn up in the future and this would be a striaght swop. I only paid £90 for the U15 so it's no biggy.
EDIT: I picked up a pair of heavy duty drawer slides from B&Q (UK equivalent to Home Depot I believe). They fit nicely onto the underside of the shelf, now I need the Lens for measurement purposes. I can add a small piece of Black anodised aluminum angle to the front edge which will hide the shinny ends of the slides and provide a strong surface to fix the lens bracket onto. I also bought some 'wing' nuts that I intend to use as the quick release mechanism to unscrew the lens bracket from my slide. I guess a picture will make things much clearer, so I'll post back once it is completed, incase it proves useful to someone else.
clevername
02-23-08, 11:20 PM
Can't get much more simple than this:
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/1778/hd80andlensvp7.jpg
It's a center under mount slide, a dowel, and a 1x4.
I finally got around to mounting mine today and used this model. It took us a little bit to get it situated right on the slide because we were using the holes that were already there instead of drilling a new one, but it's up now and it's a nice, simple mechanism.
Of course, we mounted the stupid slide a little "crooked" on the ceiling, but an easy turn of the dowel and the lens is square. As long as folks don't look too closely they won't notice...or maybe they will because it's pretty obvious but at this point I really don't care; they need to be focusing on the image that now covers the entire wall ;).
lateralis
05-19-08, 12:22 PM
I'm getting ready to build my slide and I know almost nothing about drawer hardware so I wanted to ask - would something like this be a decent choice for a DIY?
http://www.thehardwarehouse.com/product_info.php?products_id=368
I'm thinking I'll do two parallel with a chunk of 1x3.5 poplar I have left over from building my frame.
thanks.
Looks very similar to what I used. I also ended up going with 2 in parallel to add more stability.
lateralis
05-19-08, 05:29 PM
yeah having never actually seen one of these 2-prism lenses in person before, I didn't really know what to expect when it came but having held it in my hands, I'd much rather have the added stability of two tracks. this thing is pretty solid and heavier than I thought it would be.
that one is 10 inches long. I assume that should be more than enough room right?
that one is 10 inches long. I assume that should be more than enough room right?
That depends on the PJ and your lens/sled design. You want to have enough lateral movement to make sure the lens can be moved completely out of the way, not blocking any air flow vents, etc.
That is almost exactly like the slides I used and yes I did use two. you can see the pics of mine on the preceding page of posts or check out my theater in my signature line.
it is very stable. I have a UH380 lens.
mdputnam
06-03-08, 12:19 PM
I've always thought these (http://www.firgelliauto.com/default.php?cPath=104) would make a good automated lens slide
http://www.firgelliauto.com/images/Track%20Actuator2.JPG
mr_fitz
07-23-08, 10:43 AM
So I ordered an htb lens and I am almost finished building my slide for it.
I have a bulk head just above and barely in front of my projector lens so I attached two drawer slides horizontally to the bulk head. I screwed a piece of wood vertically to the drawer slides and then at the bottom I have another piece of wood attached horizontally to attach the lens.
The problem I have is that when I slide the lens out away from my projector, because the center of gravity for my setup is not in line with the vertical piece of wood it starts to torque. So I need to add a counterweight at the back.
Any ideas as to what is fairly cheap, is smaller than 9in x 5in, and would weigh about 5lbs.
Thanks
John
pocoloco
07-28-08, 04:35 PM
Drawer slides are not good for the reasons you state. Here's an alternative solution.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1035479
mr_fitz
07-31-08, 05:18 PM
Here is my lens setup. Not completed yet but close. Need to paint or cover my lens slide to make it look pretty. :)
syncguy
08-16-08, 04:22 AM
I finally got around to mounting mine today and used this model. It took us a little bit to get it situated right on the slide because we were using the holes that were already there instead of drilling a new one, but it's up now and it's a nice, simple mechanism.
Of course, we mounted the stupid slide a little "crooked" on the ceiling, but an easy turn of the dowel and the lens is square. As long as folks don't look too closely they won't notice...or maybe they will because it's pretty obvious but at this point I really don't care; they need to be focusing on the image that now covers the entire wall ;).
Check the strength of the drawer slide to hold the lens. Normally drawer slides a mounted vertically rather than horizontally. Horizontal position exerts more pressure on the slide in comparison to the vertical position.
Well, the rules vary some by the certifying organization. Mostly they are additive. The FCC for US markets seems the most lienient. Basically if you assemble electronic parts to make something else, then it likely has to be tested (depending on technical details of the device).
They only require a radiated emmissions and conducted emmissions test. Other orgs are much more aggressive. You'd have to read the C-tick rules for their nitty gritty details. Import issues come into play here and for EU countries, CE is the cert. and is a whole different, more aggressive animal. In addition to the tests above you have to do electrostatic discharge suseptability testing, safety testing (like the USA's UL, which isn't a requirement over here), and more. If it is an off-the-shelf unmodified electronic part, then it should be OK. (CE still would still require the safety part of the test if it's an assembled product.) For electronic items, if you add anything that can become an antenna it has to be retested. And the higher the frequency the more problematic because the antennas get shorter and the EMI is harder to contain.
Best example I have is the CineSlide uses a power supply that has every certification in the world. But because I use it in conjunction with something else electronic that can produce a frequency over 9kHz, it has to be retested and certified. Sucks. It depends on what you are assembling. I'm no expert, but I know way more about it than I ever wanted to, now that I've had to go through it.
Hi GetGray,
The CE rules, regs & of course fines; are they only in play if one is using RF type remote control ? I had read on a IR remote company's web site where they stated IR controlled electronics were not subject to those rules, is that true ? Just wondering in case I ever invent something that needs wireless control. Thanks for sharing your experiences with us!
John :D
GetGray
08-19-08, 07:49 AM
Hi GetGray,
The CE rules, regs & of course fines; are they only in play if one is using RF type remote control ? I had read on a IR remote company's web site where they stated IR controlled electronics were not subject to those rules, is that true ? Just wondering in case I ever invent something that needs wireless control. Thanks for sharing your experiences with us!
John :DJohn:
No, unfortunately they apply to anything with a microprocessor in them. It dosen't even have to be a fast microprocessor. And they have thought of every loophole. You can't even make "modules" if they are to be assembled as an end product. The FCC and CE RF lab charges for the CineSlide testing approached $15,000. The CE testing was the most expensive one since there are many more tests you have to pass. And that's just the start. Then you have to create a "technical file" and a Declaration of Conformity (CE). Nothing would have made me happier to not have to pay that just to be "legal". And I tried hard to find a way around it. There wasn't one. It's a brick wall for many entrepeneurs. In the US the FCC allows a tiny loophole, but it dosen't help if anyone is selling a thing. They allow one to make up to 5, for personal use, without the tests. But not sell them.
For the FCC, for unintentional radiators, see their "Part 15" rules.
For CE, it's a long list of EU directives. Which change all the time apparently.
:(
airliner
08-19-08, 12:01 PM
Has anybody ever considered the possibility to swing up the lens instead of sliding to a side?
"GetGray",
Thanks for enlightening me. WOW ! A small company would have to sell a lot of product to pay off that kind
of testing investment. But it pays to be legal.
So, if a person came up with a way to use relays & switches w/o the use of microprocessors, you could still use IR or RF remote controls to control a system w/o going to the huge expense of all the testing & regs ? Just as long as you use no microprecessors... just wondering.
John :D
GetGray
08-20-08, 07:48 AM
So, if a person came up with a way to use relays & switches w/o the use of microprocessors, you could still use IR or RF remote controls to control a system w/o going to the huge expense of all the testing & regs ? Just as long as you use no microprecessors... just wondering.
JohnWell... the IR and RF receivers take microprocessors to deal with either incoming signal so the question isn't really valid. Ditto for the transmitter. For example the IR remote on the CineSlide is a digital signal, produced by a uP, sent out on a modulated 40MHz optical IR carrier. And I believe technically it's not necessarily that a uP that is the trigger, but an oscillating circuit, which all uP's (I know of) use to shift their program clocks.
adidadi
11-13-08, 07:10 PM
Can someone please post a link to the relay needed to connect to a 12v trigger output so it controls the actuator? Thanks.
GetGray
11-13-08, 07:30 PM
Can someone please post a link to the relay needed to connect to a 12v trigger output so it controls the actuator? Thanks.No easy button links but some advise... 12v triggers aren't designed to drive ("power") anything, including relays. Most trigger inputs/receivers are high impedance sensors that simply look to tell if there is, or is not a (12v) signal present. Some devices will source 10mA, occasionally more. But some will only do microcurrent and connecting even a small relay might look like a dead short to them.
So, check the specs on whatever you are going to use to source the 12v trigger output. Then, either use a transistor to switch a relay, or possibly a miniature, low current relay to trigger a larger one, like a reed relay. See www.digikey.com for relays.
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