got this from another forum:

1. If you have a PS3 Slim...it does not matter. Bitstream (allow the PS3 to pass the audio to the receiver and allow the receiver to decode) or LInear PCM (allow the PS3 to decode and send the audio to the receiver)...it doesn't matter. It is the same exact audio. The only difference is which piece of equipment is decoding. Once you volume match...it is the same exact sound.



2. If you have a PS3 Fat...it does matter. Bitstream will NOT pass HD audio on to the reciever for decoding. Your only option is Linear PCM and that is perfectly fine. Once again, you get the same exact sound. Many receivers allow you to apply additional effects/processing when bitstreamin, but not always when using Linear PCM. (see my next paragraph)



If you volume match and apply no post processing effects at the receiver...the audio will abosolutely sound the same. Now, since you have a reciever capable of decoding HD audio...you might as well allow it to do so. Set your PS3 Slim to Bitstream. Now, movies/games with a 7.1 mix will play as 7.1 automatically. You can also force 5.1 mixes to play as if they were 7.1 if you wish. (you do so by using Dolby Pro Logic IIx) You may not be able to apply extra processing like this if you choose Linear PCM, but you will be able to while using the Bitstream option.

some people guessing its downmixing some guessing its losing the back 2 channels, lol. confidenceman thinks its probably downmixing and tingham is guessing its losing the back 2. I should have just gone for 7.1 since the reciever does it but figured that would be overkill for my bedroom.Not only would it be overkill, but the sound would likely be less accurate with the two back speakers for a typical bedroom. A 5.1 setup isn't just "fine" in that situation; it's probably ideal. More speakers doesn't mean better.

honestly i just dont get it. It defiantly seems to be something with the PS3 since movies seem to output correctly its just games that ALWAYS show 7.1, unless theres an in game option to change them.Remember, very few games actually have 7.1 output. And every game that I know of that has a 7.1 output option also lets you manually choose the output settings. So regardless of what's happening between your AVR and the PS3, it's a totally moot issue for you. If you're seeing "7.1 PCM" show up on your AVR display, you're not missing any sound. The PS3 isn't capable of upmixing 5.1 output into 7.1, and unless you have adjusted it to do otherwise, your AVR isn't upmixing it either.

In other words, nothing is wrong. Everything is working exactly as it should, and you're not losing any audio data whatsoever.

EDIT: In doing a quick internet search for your particular issue, I came across your post in the audio section of AVS. :D Multiple posters in the sc-05 receiver forum confirmed what I told you above. Your receiver will downmix 7.1 PCM to 5.1. You're not losing anything. Furthermore, as I said above, very few games output in 7.1 and those that do let you manually select an audio output setting.

I highly recommend reviewing the manual for your reciever (available online). Be sure to double check all of your listening modes to make sure you're not telling your receiver to do something strange with the audio data. Double check that there are no settings for enabling/disabling your surround rear speakers. Etc. Etc.

My only problem is how the PS3 handles 7.1 on a 7.1 capable reciever with 5.1 set up. I really need to know if im losing audio here


Not at all. The PS3 will send 7.1 to your receiver and your receiver will downmix to 5.1 if you set it up correctly.

My reciever is down and I have to run ps3 directly into the tv via hdmi but how should I set the sound for only two channel tv? I tried a blu ray last night and the voices faded in and out and the sound was off.

I am using hdmi in from ps3 to sony xbr4. xbr 4 has only two channel audio. Most blu ray movies now do not have a selection for types of audio,,just one so forced to try to work with that also.

Any ideas?

My reciever is down and I have to run ps3 directly into the tv via hdmi but how should I set the sound for only two channel tv? I tried a blu ray last night and the voices faded in and out and the sound was off.

I am using hdmi in from ps3 to sony xbr4. xbr 4 has only two channel audio. Most blu ray movies now do not have a selection for types of audio,,just one so forced to try to work with that also.

Any ideas?Simple fix. Just go into your PS3's audio output options and manually deselect everything beyond 2-channel. Alternatively, you could reset the PS3's autodetect by turning it off. Then turning it back on by holding down the power button until it beeps a second time. That should automatically detect the appropriate audio for your display.

Thanks, I did do that and still get odd audio. Should I be in PCM mode?

Thanks, I did do that and still get odd audio. Should I be in PCM mode?If you changed the output options on the PS3, it shouldn't matter. It's possible that your TV accepts codecs that it's ill-equipped to handle. If you have the PS3 set to output PCM for DVD/BD, it should only be outputting 2-channel PCM and DD/DTS. When you play a DVD/BD, hit the select button (during playback, not in the DVD main menu). In the upper right of the screen, you'll see the audio format that the PS3 is sending to your display. What does that say?

DTS HD MA 5.1 48 khz

Shouldn't it be 2 channel pcm?

DTS HD MA 5.1 48 khz

Shouldn't it be 2 channel pcm?Did you de-select the higher channel sound output options? Also, if you haven't already, try switching from bitstream to PCM (I'm assuming you have a Slim). I don't have a Slim, so I'm not sure how the audio display works with bitstreamed HD codecs, but that might be the issue. Not sure exactly how bitstreamed HD codecs work with the new Slim models.

I dont have a slim,,I let the ps3 select the audio to the device. Where do you change from bit stream to pcm on the old ps3?

On the high-end OPPO dvd player...

If you set LPCM, you also need to fidget with speaker settings on the DVD player (and not your AVR)...
aka setting speakers to large, 5.1 mode, etc.

Failure to do so maybe result in bad sound on your AVR (aka bass not being sent to your mains, etc).

Confusing for sure !

Thanks but I want to know about the ps3. How do I set pcm or bitstream? There are no large or small speaker settings that I know of.

Thanks but I want to know about the ps3. How do I set pcm or bitstream? There are no large or small speaker settings that I know of.If you don't have a Slim PS3, then something's not adding up.

To switch to bitstream or PCM for DVD/BD playback, you have to go to the "settings" tab on the PS3's XMB ("cross media bar"). Once there, scroll down to "video settings." From there, scroll down to "BD/DVD Audio Output Format (HDMI)." Select either "Linear PCM" or "Bitstream." If you have an non-Slim PS3 and your BD's displaying that it's outputting an HD codec, then you have it set for Linear PCM.

Regardless, if you set up your PS3 correctly, that actually shouldn't make a difference. The PS3 is sending the multichannel HD audio codecs to your display which doesn't mix the audio very well. If you want just 2-channel audio, go to the "settings" tab. Scroll down to "sound settings." Select "audio output settings." Select "HDMI." Select "Manual." Then uncheck all of the output options other than 2-channel audio.

I just got a slim, hooked up with hdmi, my receiver Onkyo tx sr705 can decode TrueHD or DTS HD Master Audio. I have a 5.1 setup, receiver is properly configured for a 5.1 setup (back speakers de-activiated in receiver's menu)

I played a certain scene from the movie surrogates a few times, switching between LPCM and Bitstream. First off when I switched to bitstream I got a message from PS3 saying I may be missing certain portions of the audio. The receiver properly saw and displayed a 5.1 DTS HD Master Audio track will bitstreaming.... however the PS3 display menu called it "DTS HD MA - multichannel".... When I switched to LPCM the PS3 display read "DTS HD MA - 5.1 channel"

I don't get why the PS3 wouldn't say it had a 5.1 source and called it multichannel? Is tha t by product of it not touching the audio when you bitstream? Does it not know the exact details other than it being a mutli-channel track?


My other comment was the LFE was noticeable louder when I had LPCM selected.... I'm not sure what PS3 setting would cause a change in LFE volume.... I'm just concerned I don't have the PS3 setup correctly and that I am missing sounds while bitstreaming... when compared to LPCM..... any thoughts would be appreciated!

Many receivers lose 8db when processing LPCM versus bitstream.

Louder isn't supposed to mean better, but to some, it does.
Especially if they have a weak receiver.

I wish my Yamaha 665 had > 100 watts of power...

I don't get why the PS3 wouldn't say it had a 5.1 source and called it multichannel? Is tha t by product of it not touching the audio when you bitstream? Does it not know the exact details other than it being a mutli-channel track?Yes and yes.

So what's the best receiver to get for the ps3 that's in the $500 range that decodes he audio and upscales everything to hdmi 1080? I have a Yamaha that plays just fine but does not decode he audio so I run the audio from ps3 as lpcm

Many receivers lose 8db when processing LPCM versus bitstream.

Did you mean it the other way around? My comment was the LPCM LFE was louder than when it was Bitstreamed

Louder isn't supposed to mean better, but to some, it does.
Especially if they have a weak receiver.

I wish my Yamaha 665 had > 100 watts of power...

Not sure how the louder comment has anything to do with what I asked. I was wondering why with the same equipment the bitstreamed LFE was more quiet than the LPCM, unless you are stating that perhaps my receiver is doing a poor job of decoding and portions of the soundtrack are being lost?

Did you mean it the other way around? My comment was the LPCM LFE was louder than when it was BitstreamedNo, he meant what he said. It should (generally) be louder bitstreamed. Might be something peculiar to your AVR, or it could be a setting somewhere on your AVR.

So what's the best receiver to get for the ps3 that's in the $500 range that decodes he audio and upscales everything to hdmi 1080? I have a Yamaha that plays just fine but does not decode he audio so I run the audio from ps3 as lpcmThere's no need. You won't improve the audio quality by bitstreaming it. And there's no need to upscale video. If the source is native 1080p, the PS3 outputs it. If it's not native, your display scales it. If you're not happy with how your display upscales to 1080p, you'd need to spend much more than $500 just for a high quality (and standalone) scaler. Not just that, but you'd be spending way too much money on equipment that only marginally improves the PQ of non-native 1080p content.

Not recommended unless you have a very specific reason for doing so.

Thanks. My display does upscale everything to 1080p. The only issue I have is that the Wii is hooked via component, which, due to the Yamaha, requires me to also have a component along with the hdmi. I gues it's not that big a deal. All wires run in wall rom closet to TV so they're not visible. Just annoying for me :)

The only issue I have is that the Wii is hooked via component, which, due to the Yamaha, requires me to also have a component along with the hdmi.That sounds like a drag. So you have to have component cables between your AVR and your display just for the Wii? Why is that?

That sounds like a drag. So you have to have component cables between your AVR and your display just for the Wii? Why is that?

WAG here..but it sounds like his Yamaha doesnt do upconverting. ie. taking a analog signal and converting it to digital, for output via HDMI. Analog in Analog out. Some AVR's have this problem.

Make sure you have the newest Yamaha firmware that allows assignable video to the audio inputs. Then assign the component video to the audio-1 button.

Anytime you want to play wii, press audio-1.

The 2009 Yamaha's are a good value, but missing some important features that older models used to have.
Itd be nice if I could watch tv and listen to XM at the same time. lol.

If I load Rock Band 2 up, two of the lights go out and it shows as 5.1.

Further research has shown some anomalous behaviour with respect to Rock Band. While I was indeed getting a 5.1 signal, it was apparently a Dolby Digital-encoded signal, not PCM. If I deselected DD within the game, the audio reverted to straight Stereo.

As it turns out, Rock Band 2 will output 5.1 PCM only if the 5.1 output options are selected AND the 7.1 output options are deselected. The setting of the Dolby Digital option in the game is ignored in this scenario.

Selecting 7.1 will cause Rock Band 2 to output in Stereo or Dolby Digital, regardless of the 5.1 output settings.

To make it simple, the difference between bitstream and PCM, is where the audio is getting decoded. If you choose PCM, audio gets decoded from DD5.1 or DTS 5.1 or DTS-HD or whatever, to PCM and then gets sent over the audio portion of HDMI to your receiver where it's converted from digital to analog and played over your speakers. If you choose bitstream, the audio track in DD5.1, DTS 5.1, DTS-HD or whatever, gets sent directly to your receiver over the audio portion of HDMI. There it gets decoded to PCM, converted from digital to analog and played over your speakers.

So really, the choice is simply a matter of where you want the audio decoded. In some cases your receiver may not support one or another audio format and the PS3 does. So, you would choose PCM so that the PS3 would decode the audio and send it to the receiver.

I should point out that it's quite difficult to do an objective comparison between the two, if there is ANY difference in volume between the 2 cases, as listeners invariably pick the louder one as being better sounding. Ideally, whether you chose PCM or bitstream, it should sound identical.

To your question of why the receiver is just displaying PCM instead of telling you that it's DD5.1 or DTS5.1, the receiver cannot possibly know the origin of the soundtrack that was decoded by the PS3. All the receiver can know is that it is receiving multi-channel PCM. The PS3 does know and there is an overlay menu somewhere that will tell you the format of the audio track that is currently being decoded and sent as PCM to the receiver. If you want your receiver to display DD5.1 or whatever, then you must configure the PS3 to send bitstream. Then the receiver will know what is the format of the original audio track, since in that case, the PS3 sends the audio track precisely as it is read from disk with no decoding at all.

Bitstream vs PCM applies to Bluray and SD DVDs. I don't remember offhand if it applies to games also. I would think that it does.

As to whether your receiver does multi-channel PCM or just 2 channel, I would say that you ought to be able to hear the difference. Set the PS3 to PCM and play a movie, selecting DD5.1 or DTS5.1 or something multi-channel and listen, if you don't hear anything different from the rear speakers, then assuming you don't have any post-processing (dolby prologic, etc) enabled in the receiver, your receiver does not support multi-channel PCM and the PS3 is down-mixing multi-channel to 2 channel PCM and sending that to your receiver. When the PS3 and your receiver do their HDMI handshake thing, your receiver reports to the PS3 what audio formats it supports. It's very trivial technically, to support multi-channel PCM, but I wouldn't be surprised if some receivers don't support it in which case, the PS3 is forced to downmix to 2 channel stereo PCM, if you've config'd the PS3 to do the decoding by choosing PCM. If you choose bitstream, then the PS3 will send the audio track format or your choice, but it shouldn't allow you to select a format that your receiver does not support.

P.J.

thanks for this summary, PJ!

Can we get this copied to the first post of the thread for others to benefit from (like me)? Searching the thread for such a nicely summarized post can take a long time!

thanks again,
..dane

My pioneer elite receiver is displaying PCM with all of the speaker icons lit up. I should be in good shape right??

how do i know if my reciever is just mixing sound to all the speakers with pcm2.0 when i am using my ps3.

I have on the options auto select in the ps3 audio menu and they have lots of 7.1 pcm boxes checked.

but when i go to play a game it just shows pcm and no speaker boxes are lit up " might be a bug in the marantz sr7001" it sounds good though

is there a way to see if im getting 7.1 or not?

My pioneer elite receiver is displaying PCM with all of the speaker icons lit up. I should be in good shape right??I'm assuming your have either 5.1 or 7.1? If so, then, yes.

is there a way to see if im getting 7.1 or not?If the PS3's sound settings have 7.1 selected, that's what you're getting. I can't say for sure what your receiver is actually doing with that signal since that depends on your receiver settings. But as far as the PS3 is concerned, sounds like all is well.

is there a way to remux a M2TS file with HD audio into LPCM 5.1 (or any other format) so that we can stream it from PC to PS3?
Is there any way to get HD audio from PS3 to AVR other than by using an actual BD? Thanks.

is there a way to remux a M2TS file with HD audio into LPCM 5.1 (or any other format) so that we can stream it from PC to PS3?
Is there any way to get HD audio from PS3 to AVR other than by using an actual BD? Thanks.

Good luck streaming an BD rip to the PS3 since I've tried it on my wired network and it stutters too poor to view. How did you mux the BD to begin with? I'd say rip it again and select a different audio mix (maybe DTS). I'd be curious to know if you have successfully viewed a BD rip streamed from your PC to the PS3 in real-time (maybe you have a complete 1Gbps network).

All I have is a DIR-615 router, and cat5 cabling to PS3. I was even able to stream with my old AMD athlon 2400+ with maybe 3 mini-freezes during a movie. Now I have a dual core AMD, 2 GB RAM. I use PS3mediaserver (PMS).
I already get DTS and DD5.1 just fine, it is TrueHD or DTS-MA that I want to be able to do. One method as per my other thread, is to use an external set up as AVCHD, which tricks the optical drive into playing the movie.

I'm going to bump this thead, its 45 days old but it has great information.

In the case of the previously discussed LOSSY bitstreamed vs. LOSSLESS LPCM...

I have a HTIB that accepts LPCM multi channel, up to 5.1 via hdmi, and I have a ps3 slim. The receiver can only actually decode lossy DTS and DD., so to listen to lossless audio codecs, I have to have the slim do the decoding, and output LPCM from its HDMI output.

The receiver lights up LPCM, and I can confirm with my ears that I am getting 5.1 sound. However, I toggled for a few hours, with several blu-ray titles, back and forth from LPCM 5.1 (various lossless codecs from the ps3, and bitstreamed lossy DTS and DD(the receiver does the decoding). I A/B's this for quite some time, and honestly, besides a slight difference in audio volume level, cannot tell one bit of difference between the sound quality. The receiver seems to do a better job dynamically when doing its own decoding via bitstream, which seems to be normal based on this thread's history.

Perhaps it's worth noting, that this may all be in vein for the guys running $500 and under HTIB setups. After careful testing, I almost feel I get a better experience using lossy bitstreamed DD and DTS 5.1

Before I get bashed for making that statement (which is understandable) let me explain that I am using a budget HTIB, the Sony KS370 5.1 system.

It is my opinion that unless you have pretty good audio equipment and a very trained ear, there is no reason to loose sleep over the whole issue.

If you have a good DD/DTS receiver, I wouldn't go trade it for a budget receiver that does lossless audio via decoding or LPCM.

I'm going to bump this thead, its 45 days old but it has great information.

In the case of the previously discussed LOSSY bitstreamed vs. LOSSLESS LPCM...

I have a HTIB that accepts LPCM multi channel, up to 5.1 via hdmi, and I have a ps3 slim. The receiver can only actually decode lossy DTS and DD., so to listen to lossless audio codecs, I have to have the slim do the decoding, and output LPCM from its HDMI output.

The receiver lights up LPCM, and I can confirm with my ears that I am getting 5.1 sound. However, I toggled for a few hours, with several blu-ray titles, back and forth from LPCM 5.1 (various lossless codecs from the ps3, and bitstreamed lossy DTS and DD(the receiver does the decoding). I A/B's this for quite some time, and honestly, besides a slight difference in audio volume level, cannot tell one bit of difference between the sound quality. The receiver seems to do a better job dynamically when doing its own decoding via bitstream, which seems to be normal based on this thread's history.

Perhaps it's worth noting, that this may all be in vein for the guys running $500 and under HTIB setups. After careful testing, I almost feel I get a better experience using lossy bitstreamed DD and DTS 5.1

Before I get bashed for making that statement (which is understandable) let me explain that I am using a budget HTIB, the Sony KS370 5.1 system.

It is my opinion that unless you have pretty good audio equipment and a very trained ear, there is no reason to loose sleep over the whole issue.

If you have a good DD/DTS receiver, I wouldn't go trade it for a budget receiver that does lossless audio via decoding or LPCM.

Hi redwolf,

We bump into each other again. What BDs have you tested? I really hear the difference from LPCM decoded TruHD and DTS-HD by the PS3 vs Bitstreamed DD 5.1. Of course, this depends on the quality of the original Source. Example, Star Trek on LPCM (TruHD) sounds much better to me than the DD 5.1 on my SS370 system. The same goes for Quantum of Solace, Avatar, Spider-Man 3 and a few others I have tried. Now, there are other movies that I don't notice the difference much. What you say is true, though... maybe I just have a good ear. However, I suggest that you use LPCM for some time. The more you do, the more your ear will get used to it and you might actually learn to appreciate the better sound. It is like watching a images at 1080p for a few hours and then going back to 480p.

I do Have it hooked up and receiving LPCM from the PS3 right now, I have tested Transformers, Transformers 2, all the LOTR discs, IRON MAN and Wall-E. All blu-ray titles.

I go into the A/V menu, while the blu-ray is playing, and toggle back and form from LPCM and Bitstream, and then confirm that the codec changes as well, when I am on LPCM, the codec the PS3 displays will be DTS-MA for example. And when I switch to Bitstream, I will see it change to plain DTS.

Am I A/B-ing the audio correctly?

I am having a heck of a time hearing any audible difference. Not in voice clarity, surround effects, music and soundtracks, I just cannot hear a difference.

I do Have it hooked up and receiving LPCM from the PS3 right now, I have tested Transformers, Transformers 2, all the LOTR discs, IRON MAN and Wall-E. All blu-ray titles.

I go into the A/V menu, while the blu-ray is playing, and toggle back and form from LPCM and Bitstream, and then confirm that the codec changes as well, when I am on LPCM, the codec the PS3 displays will be DTS-MA for example. And when I switch to Bitstream, I will see it change to plain DTS.

Am I A/B-ing the audio correctly?

I am having a heck of a time hearing any audible difference. Not in voice clarity, surround effects, music and soundtracks, I just cannot hear a difference.

One thing I forgot to mention. Turn "OFF" dynamic range control on your PS3. It is usually set to "Automatic" but the feature does not work and muffles TrueHD and DD sounds sent out LPCM. You can do this while watching a movie by pressing triangle and going to the settings. You can even try the different setting while playing a move and see the difference. If this feature is "ON" or "Automatic" while playing TruHD movies, you are missing out.

I have not had very good luck with Bitstream and my receiver decoding it properly.

Equipment:

Pioneer 151
Denon AVR 4310ci
Fat 80 Gig Motorstorm PS3

Source I played was GI Joe Rise of Cobra on Blu Ray.
Audio: DTS HD MA

Results:
LPCM: DTS HD MA verified on PS3
Multi channel PLII

Bitstream
DTS 5.1 on PS3
DTS 5.1 on Denon

My denon can decode DTS HD MA

Can anyone help? I've messed with just about every menu item possible.


Thanks,

Sean

You can't bitstream the HD audio codecs on a fat PS3, only on the new slims.

Second that... Only Slims bitsream TrueHD and DTS-MA. You have to keep yours with LPCM and let the PS3 do the decoding.

You can't bitstream the HD audio codecs on a fat PS3, only on the new slims.

Second that... Only Slims bitsream TrueHD and DTS-MA. You have to keep yours with LPCM and let the PS3 do the decoding.

Thanks,

I knew it was something stupid like that. I just replaced my Blu Ray laser for $52 on that ole' girl. Is spending $300 just to get your receiver to light up with the correct codec signatures a bad thing?

Thanks,

I knew it was something stupid like that. I just replaced my Blu Ray laser for $52 on that ole' girl. Is spending $300 just to get your receiver to light up with the correct codec signatures a bad thing?

I wouldn't...especially if you just replaced the laser. There is no difference in sound quality - just a couple extra pixels lighting up on your receiver display.

Thanks,

I knew it was something stupid like that. I just replaced my Blu Ray laser for $52 on that ole' girl. Is spending $300 just to get your receiver to light up with the correct codec signatures a bad thing?

Hehehe... I like the slim (I went through two Phats). But, as long as your Phat is working... it won't make a difference.

Thanks,

I knew it was something stupid like that. I just replaced my Blu Ray laser for $52 on that ole' girl. Is spending $300 just to get your receiver to light up with the correct codec signatures a bad thing?

Pretty stupid esp. considering that your still using the same DAC in your AVR.

+ the PS3 will still decode games to Linear PCM

for the comments about HD audio vs DD, I think you do actually need a quality speaker to be able to discern the differences...

for the comments about HD audio vs DD, I think you do actually need a quality speaker to be able to discern the differences...

Agreed.

Lord knows that I have tried to hear a difference, with many many blu-rays, and I just cannot.

I read an article somewhere online where It compared Lossy DD/DTS on DvDs vs. lossless codecs, such as DD-THD and DTS HD MA, and the results were the slightest audible difference. Then, the same test was done using the DD/DTS core track on blu ray discs, vs. the lossless codecs on the same blu-ray disc, and the difference was not really audible to the majority of the testers.

The core track created from the HD codecs, like DTS @ 1.5 are better quality then yesterdays DD/DTS lossy?

Mix that theory in with a lower-end system, and I can see why there is a debate about the real audible advantages in some cases.

I will continue to output LPCM with my ps3 decoding the HD codecs though. I am just finding that the lossy codecs are done so well, that its nearly impossible for me personally, to tell any difference at all.

I sometimes hear people comparing lossy vs. lossless to a 128kbps mp3 vs Cd audio .wav files. I think that is an extremely over exaggerated comparison.

Keep in mind I am talking about budget audio setups in a living room.

I am sure with a nice home theater, and a very expensive receiver and speakers, it would be easier to hear a difference, but even then, I would imagine it would be very small.

Once again... I will have to disagree. Although more expensive speakers will clearly allow you to appreciate TrueHD and DTS-HD/MA to the fullest, even with cheaper speaker (such as the SS370) you should be able to appreciate the dynamic range offered by these tracks over DD 5.1. Of course, the source material is important even in an expensive system. Good reference movies with amazing HD soundtracks are Star Trek (True-HD), Spider-Man 3 (LPCM), and Avatar.

thats the reason to upgrade, my hk avr 247 is set to 7.1 pcm because 3 yrs ago they didnt have all the dts master audio formats when my receiver came out even true hd formats. my question is will the pcm 7.1 in the older receiver still decode all the audio formats, my recent update in 2008 to my receiver had the 1.3a hdmi update, and allowed pcm 7.1 to decode better.

Can someone please tell me what the better option is here? I'll explain my situation.

I have a slim PS3 outputting optical audio to my receiver, my receiver is an older one so it doesn't have any HDMI ports and can't decode the new codecs.. and I only have 2 speakers.

When I'm watching a Blu-Ray should I be setting the PS3 to bitstream and let it feed my receiver the fallback lossy DTS/Dolby Digital tracks or should I set it to Linear PCM where the PS3 can decode the DTS HD MA/Dolby True HD codecs internally and send it to my receiver as Linear PCM? I understand optical only has bandwidth for two channel PCM.. and I only have two speakers, so i'm guessing choosing Linear PCM and letting the PS3 decode the lossless tracks would be better instead of bitstreaming the lossy tracks? I just want to make sure because I'm really not sure and I want the best audio possible when I'm watching my movies.

Can someone please tell me what the better option is here? I'll explain my situation.

I have a slim PS3 outputting optical audio to my receiver, my receiver is an older one so it doesn't have any HDMI ports and can't decode the new codecs.. and I only have 2 speakers.

When I'm watching a Blu-Ray should I be setting the PS3 to bitstream and let it feed my receiver the fallback lossy DTS/Dolby Digital tracks or should I set it to Linear PCM where the PS3 can decode the DTS HD MA/Dolby True HD codecs internally and send it to my receiver as Linear PCM? I understand optical only has bandwidth for two channel PCM.. and I only have two speakers, so i'm guessing choosing Linear PCM and letting the PS3 decode the lossless tracks would be better instead of bitstreaming the lossy tracks? I just want to make sure because I'm really not sure and I want the best audio possible when I'm watching my movies.

IMO, it does not matter much on a 2 speaker setting. But if you are going to do 2 channel anyway, maybe let the PS3 do the decoding. You can, of course, play with it yourself and let your ear decide.

I have a Ps3 Slim and a brand new Denon 791 - When I set to bitstream, the truehd lights up on Star Trek, but it warns me that portions of the soundtrack may not be played. When I set to pcm it sets it to multi channel in (no truehd light).

With the PCM setting am I getting trueHD even though it doesn't light up? Am I really losing data with Bitstream? Where should it be set? I admit, like others, I much prefer seeing the light that says TrueHD.

Thanks!

I have a Ps3 Slim and a brand new Denon 791 - When I set to bitstream, the truehd lights up on Star Trek, but it warns me that portions of the soundtrack may not be played. When I set to pcm it sets it to multi channel in (no truehd light).

With the PCM setting am I getting trueHD even though it doesn't light up? Am I really losing data with Bitstream? Where should it be set? I admit, like others, I much prefer seeing the light that says TrueHD.

Thanks!

you aren't gonna be losing any data.. that warning is for people who use an optical cable and not an HDMI cable, you lose the menu sounds on most Blu-Rays if you're using optical output, you'll also be losing the TrueHD/DTS MA audio of course since optical doesn't have enough bandwidth for that so it'll default to the lossy tracks.

Sorry if someone has already answered this but here's my question. I have a fat ps 3 and a 7.1 setup. When I use LPCM to hear lossless blu ray soundtracks, the sound is significantly lower than when I bitstream the lossy track to my AVR. Is this normal or can it be fixed by making sure the speakers are volume matched.
PS, I know that "louder" doesnt mean better, but like I said the difference is so great that the dynamic range on the PCM seems muted and is unimpressive.
I also tested lossy sound over bitstream and PCM and i had to go bitstream there too. I played the terminator 2 on blu ray (dts ex 6.1) and the opening scene (which is top notch for testing out LFE) sounded like it was on 2 ch stereo over PCM. Anyway any help is appreciated.

It's covered in this thread. It's normal, and does not affect sound quality. Turn up the volume.

Agreed.

Lord knows that I have tried to hear a difference, with many many blu-rays, and I just cannot.

I read an article somewhere online where It compared Lossy DD/DTS on DvDs vs. lossless codecs, such as DD-THD and DTS HD MA, and the results were the slightest audible difference. Then, the same test was done using the DD/DTS core track on blu ray discs, vs. the lossless codecs on the same blu-ray disc, and the difference was not really audible to the majority of the testers.

The core track created from the HD codecs, like DTS @ 1.5 are better quality then yesterdays DD/DTS lossy?

Mix that theory in with a lower-end system, and I can see why there is a debate about the real audible advantages in some cases.

I will continue to output LPCM with my ps3 decoding the HD codecs though. I am just finding that the lossy codecs are done so well, that its nearly impossible for me personally, to tell any difference at all.

I sometimes hear people comparing lossy vs. lossless to a 128kbps mp3 vs Cd audio .wav files. I think that is an extremely over exaggerated comparison.

Keep in mind I am talking about budget audio setups in a living room.

I am sure with a nice home theater, and a very expensive receiver and speakers, it would be easier to hear a difference, but even then, I would imagine it would be very small.you can hear and feel the difference between Dolby digital and Dolby True-HD, same goes for DTS-MA, there is more detail more spaciousness and a cleaner more linear sound comming from the speakers in the True-HD and DTS-MA formats. And the PS3 does decode DTS-MA.

Sorry if someone has already answered this but here's my question. I have a fat ps 3 and a 7.1 setup. When I use LPCM to hear lossless blu ray soundtracks, the sound is significantly lower than when I bitstream the lossy track to my AVR. Is this normal or can it be fixed by making sure the speakers are volume matched.
PS, I know that "louder" doesnt mean better, but like I said the difference is so great that the dynamic range on the PCM seems muted and is unimpressive.
I also tested lossy sound over bitstream and PCM and i had to go bitstream there too. I played the terminator 2 on blu ray (dts ex 6.1) and the opening scene (which is top notch for testing out LFE) sounded like it was on 2 ch stereo over PCM. Anyway any help is appreciated.LPCM decoding in the PS3 sounds the same as if it where decodet as Bitstrream in your AVR, only thing is you won't get the DTS-MA or Dolby-trueHD letters to display on your receivers panel, but it will show that the sound is going through as PCM "which is lossless" and the same as the two formats mentioned above, in regards to the volume, just turn it up 2 notches and it is the same as your receiver compressing the audio codecs, I have tried it with my Panasonic BDP-60 which can pass the signal in Bit-stream so the receiver can do all the decoding and the PS3 which decodes the signals internally in PCM, sound is the same, as both are doing the same thing.

From the Samsung Site:

Blu-ray Disc Players : What's The Difference Between Onboard Decoding And Bitstream Pass-through, And Which One Should I Use?

Although Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio aren’t compressed in the same way that the original Dolby Digital and DTS formats are, they still reside on your Blu-ray disc in condensed form—a stream of bits, or bitstream, that has to be decoded properly before it can be amplified and sent to your speakers. “Bitstream pass-through,” as it's often called, means that your Blu-ray player delivers that unaltered data to your receiver or surround sound processor, which then does al the necessary decoding and digital-to-analog conversion itself. This requires that your player and receiver/processor both be equipped with HDMI 1.3 connections, and that your receiver/processor is capable of doing the decoding.

If your receiver isn’t capable of such decoding, your Blu-ray player may be able decode these formats itself, “onboard” in other words, and deliver the resulting audio—usually as PCM audio—to your receiver/processor via an HDMI 1.1 or above port, or via 5.1 channel analog audio connections.

Which method you should use depends of course on what sort of gear you have or plan to purchase. Actually, though, even if your system is capable of either form of decoding, the answer isn’t quite cut and dry. Each method has its advantages and disadvantages. Bitstream pass-through to a high-quality receiver or processor generally means that you’re going to get better quality audio and more control over parameters like bass management. But this method will keep you from hearing some of the audio features on new Blu-ray discs with picture-in-picture and sound-mixing bonus features. Conversely, onboard decoding will allow you hear such features, but most Blu-ray players don’t feature onboard decoding of DTS-HD Master Audio.

I was wondering if someone could answer my curiosity. I have an Onyko HT-S3300 hooked up to my slim PS3 via HDMI.

I have the PS3 set to Linear PCM, not bitstream. Everything is great and my receiver shows PCM (multi-channel) and I watched Toy Story 3 in DTS-HD MA, fabulous.

My curious question is, how come even though I select Linear PCM as the output, the check boxes in the audio setting menu are still available for Dolby 5.1, DD, etc? Of course all is well and I get audio out via PCM, but you'd think the check boxes for Dolby 5.1, DD, etc would be unselectable when PCM is chosen.

My curious question is, how come even though I select Linear PCM as the output, the check boxes in the audio setting menu are still available for Dolby 5.1, DD, etc? Of course all is well and I get audio out via PCM, but you'd think the check boxes for Dolby 5.1, DD, etc would be unselectable when PCM is chosen.Not all games output as LPCM. Selecting the LPCM output option on your PS3 only affects DVDs/BDs.

OK... I shouldn't read these threads because I always get confused. Just want to confirm my settings are optimal.

I have my fat PS3 hooked up to an Onkyo SR805 via HDMI. I have my audio output on the PS3 set to LPCM.

Is this how I should have it setup?

Is this how I should have it setup?Probably. And unless you have a specific issue you've noticed or some weird setup you're going for, you shouldn't really have to mess too much with the PS3's auto-detected audio settings. Most audio setup issues lie elsewhere.

Probably. And unless you have a specific issue you've noticed or some weird setup you're going for, you shouldn't really have to mess too much with the PS3's auto-detected audio settings. Most audio setup issues lie elsewhere.

Thanks. No issues that I have noticed.

Not all games output as LPCM. Selecting the LPCM output option on your PS3 only affects DVDs/BDs.

Ohhh ok. Thanks. The "auto" setting checks everything, so I'll leave it at that.

I'm guessing if I were to uncheck the Dolby 5.1, Dolby Digital, etc and had a game in DD I'd get no sound.

I've read through these postings and I have a similar issue. I was watching Avatar on Blue Ray

I will be adding a ps3 to my hometheater/106" projection setup. It has all the power in the world with my IB an 7.1 setup but the reciever is an older THX Select 2 Pioneer with digital or optical inputs for sound only. I believe I won't be able to enjoy lossless/the upper end of the spectrum surround until I upgrade the reciever but in the mean time what setting will give me the best sound playback? If one is quiter than the other this is not a problem given I have more than enough power for my environment especially in the lower octaves. :cool:Thanks

I too, am a bit more confused by reading all of these different suggestions. I'm a video guy, so forgive me.

Here's what I am running into. I would appreciate any clarity you can provide.
When playing back DTS MA audio out of my Panasonic 3D Blu-ray Player (set to Bitstream output), my Pioneer receiver displays DTS MASTER.
When I do the same thing with the same disc on my PS3 (set to Bitstream output), all it shows it DTS, and I can definitely tell a difference with my Martin Logan setup.
Everything I am reading says that the PS3 supports the new audio formats. The only difference besides the players are the fact that I'm running HDMI 1.4 off the Panasonic and HDMI 1.3 off the PS3. Is there another setting I am missing on the PS3, or maybe something else I should look for that I am missing?

Thanks in advance.

I too, am a bit more confused by reading all of these different suggestions. I'm a video guy, so forgive me.

Here's what I am running into. I would appreciate any clarity you can provide.
When playing back DTS MA audio out of my Panasonic 3D Blu-ray Player (set to Bitstream output), my Pioneer receiver displays DTS MASTER.
When I do the same thing with the same disc on my PS3 (set to Bitstream output), all it shows it DTS, and I can definitely tell a difference with my Martin Logan setup.
Everything I am reading says that the PS3 supports the new audio formats. The only difference besides the players are the fact that I'm running HDMI 1.4 off the Panasonic and HDMI 1.3 off the PS3. Is there another setting I am missing on the PS3, or maybe something else I should look for that I am missing?

Thanks in advance.

Do you have the newer slim-PS3 or the "fat" one? If you have the fat one you must use HDMI to get the HD audio from the PS3 though it will show MULTI-CH on your receiver since the PS3 does the decoding.

Do you have the newer slim-PS3 or the "fat" one? If you have the fat one you must use HDMI to get the HD audio from the PS3 though it will show MULTI-CH on your receiver since the PS3 does the decoding.

Adding to that you need to set the Fat PS3 to PCM, NOT bit-stream. It should say MULTI on your AVR. If you bring up the menu while watching a BR movie, you can scroll over to the middle, far right option and it will tell you the Video and Audio info being sent out.

The Slim can output bit-stream for the AVR to decode. I am betting you have the older type PS3.

Do you have the newer slim-PS3 or the "fat" one? If you have the fat one you must use HDMI to get the HD audio from the PS3 though it will show MULTI-CH on your receiver since the PS3 does the decoding.

Adding to that you need to set the Fat PS3 to PCM, NOT bit-stream. It should say MULTI on your AVR. If you bring up the menu while watching a BR movie, you can scroll over to the middle, far right option and it will tell you the Video and Audio info being sent out.

The Slim can output bit-stream for the AVR to decode. I am betting you have the older type PS3.

To add further to these replies, if you're playing a 3D blu-ray, then DTS-HD Master Audio cannot be output from the PS3 while playing 3D. The PS3 will output DTS instead. This is a limitation of the PS3's 3D capability and is mentioned on the 3.50 firmware upgrade webpage.

Note, the same goes for Dolby. The PS3 will output Dolby Digital 5.1, instead of Dolby TrueHD while playing 3D blu-rays.

To add further to these replies, if you're playing a 3D blu-ray, then DTS-HD Master Audio cannot be output from the PS3 while playing 3D. The PS3 will output DTS instead. This is a limitation of the PS3's 3D capability and is mentioned on the 3.50 firmware upgrade webpage.

Note, the same goes for Dolby. The PS3 will output Dolby Digital 5.1, instead of Dolby TrueHD while playing 3D blu-rays.

Awesome! Thanks for the info. That makes since. And for the record, I do have an old, phat PS3.

HI guys,

I play Ps3 and I just both a Sony HT-SS370 surround sound system.
Which I should use to get the best performance?

Thanks?

HI guys,

I play Ps3 and I just both a Sony HT-SS370 surround sound system.
Which I should use to get the best performance?

Thanks?

It seems the surround system doesn't decode internally but will accept LPCM. Set your PS3 to output LPCM, the PS3 does the decoding, and connect to your new HTIB with HDMI. You'll be good to go. Enjoy.

After reading through the forums I am still a bit confused about what to do.

I have a slim PS3 and a Pioneer VSX-1020K connected via HDMI. Should I set the PS3 to bitstream or PCM?

I play games, watch DVDs & Blurays, and stream video via a media server.

The receiver is fairly new and is HDMI 1.4 & 3d compatible.

Bitstream.

It doesn't make much of a difference either way, but with bitstream the lights on your receiver will light up!

Sounds good!

As I understand it, this whole bitstream vs. PCM only applies to DVD/Blu-ray and not to gaming on the PS3, right?

Correct, all games are pcm

I have a slim PS3 and a Pioneer VSX-1020K connected via HDMI. Should I set the PS3 to bitstream or PCM?

I have the same setup, so let me know if you have any questions. As stated, you might as well select bitstream so your receiver will show the audio mode.

I have the same setup, so let me know if you have any questions. As stated, you might as well select bitstream so your receiver will show the audio mode.

Great, thanks for the offer of help. It looks like we have similar TVs too (I have the LNT4665F) so I might need to pick your brain at some point when I start diving deeper into my A/V setup

Correct, all games are pcm

Some are Dolby digital and maybe even DTS. Many kick out PCM though. IIRC the Uncharted games could do DTS or Linear.

Way too simple a question perhaps but after reading the recent postings I became curious about how I had set up my new slim. I run HDMI but under the sound options I don't see the choice between bitstream and PCM. I choose HDMI and the next choice is automatic or manual. Am I missing something?

It is in a different area, I think in the DVD/BD setup section.

Check this link out for more information.
http://www.edepot.com/playstation3.html#Blu-ray_DVD_PS3_PS2_PS1_Compatibility

By what it sounds like to me is if you have a slim it doesn't matter as it will pass any audio codec through either bitstream or LPCM. If you have a fatPS3 your best option looks like LPCM. For the fat the only way to pass Dolby TRUE HD and DTS-HD MA is to set it to LPCM and let the PS3 decode the sound for you.

I have the Pio VSX-1020 and had my PS3 set to bitstream, after reading what was in that link I am going to go home and change my setting to LPCM

Hope this helps! You have to scroll down a bit to get to the audio part.

With the 1020, if you have a slim putting it to bitstream will light up all the pretty display stuff. If you have a phat, you need to be on LPCM. That page may be outdated, the slim will bitstream DTS Master and Dolby Digital TrueHD

With the 1020, if you have a slim putting it to bitstream will light up all the pretty display stuff. If you have a phat, you need to be on LPCM. That page may be outdated, the slim will bitstream DTS Master and Dolby Digital TrueHD

Yeah there is a chart on that page that says the slim will bitstream DTS-MA and TrueHD but it is a bit confusing to look at.

This should let everybody know what their PS3 (Fat or slim) and receiver should be set at to get the best sound.

PS3 Fat = Linear PCM (through HDMI) = joyous sound
Slim = bitstream or Linear PCM (through HDMI) = joyous sound

Either way Happy gaming and movie watching to all!

OK, so I have a Fat PS3 and Pioneer 1120, so Linear PCM should be selected? Thanks!

yep

Mine is set to Linear PCM, but in Audio settings, it's set to HDMI >>>> Automatic, and it selects Linear PCM 2Ch. 44.1 and 48 KHZ. Is that all I need? Transformers sounds loud enough with that, so I'm guessing it's decoding properly to 5.1? Also, I have a Fat PS3 with a HTSS370.

since no one has answered the question which is better bit stream or PCM, i will answer it for anyone that wants to know. pcm is better , it is loss less audio and it's the way the original is supposed to sound. typically DD double digital which is sent bit stream is around 600 kb and pcm loss less is usually sent around 5.0+ mbs . the pcm track will be much clearer and more i guess defined when compared to double digital, but you must have a receiver that excepts pcm audio like my onkyo tx-sr604. you can clearly hear a difference between DD vs PCM and pcm is better. hope this helps

" the pcm track will be much clearer and more i guess defined when compared to double digital,"

I am sorry did you mean Dolby Digital ? That is the correct term for DD processing. There is no such thing as "double digital."

This should clear some things up:

With DVD, there were two main types of surround-sound formats, Dolby Digital and DTS. The goal of these formats was to take raw surround-sound audio--which is too large to fit on a DVD--and compress it so it fit on the disc. Both formats use what's called lossy compression, which means that some audio information is thrown away in the compression process. It's not a perfect solution, but it's done in a way so that you (hopefully) won't notice the missing information.

With Blu-ray, there's even more space available, so both Dolby and DTS have created new soundtrack formats with the aim of throwing away less information and therefore improving audio fidelity. There are five new soundtrack formats you can expect to see on Blu-ray.

Blu-ray soundtrack formats compared Dolby Digital Plus Dolby TrueHD DTS-HD High Resolution DTS-HD Master Audio Linear PCM
Bit rate 6.144Mbps 18Mbps 6Mbps 24.5Mbps 27.6Mbps
Bit depth 24 bit 24 bit 24 bit 24 bit 24 bit
Sample rate 48Khz 96Khz 96Khz 96Khz* 192Khz
Channels 7.1 7.1 7.1 7.1 7.1

*192Khz on stereo sources
All listed specs represent the maximum a format is capable of

Dolby Digital Plus: Like standard Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus uses lossy compression to shrink the size of the audio information. However, it outdoes standard Dolby Digital by supporting a higher bit rate (6.144Mbps vs. 40Kbps) and more channels (7.1 vs. 5.1).

Dolby TrueHD: The major innovation of Dolby TrueHD is that is uses lossless compression. That means it's still able to compress the raw information to a smaller file size, but it does so without throwing away any information. It offers both a higher bit rate and sample rate than Dolby Digital Plus, to produce overall audio quality that's theoretically identical to the studio master. That also means it should sound identical to a DTS-HD Master Audio soundtrack, which also uses lossless compression.

DTS-HD High Resolution: DTS-HD High Resolution is the step-up over standard DTS, and also uses lossy compression to shrink the size of the audio information. It outdoes standard DTS by supporting a higher bit rate (6Mbps vs. 1.5Mpbs), higher sample rate (96Khz vs. 48Khz), and more channels (7.1 vs. 5.1).

DTS-HD Master Audio: Like Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio uses lossless compression. It offers a higher bit rate than DTS-HD High Resolution, for overall audio quality that's, again, theoretically identical to the studio master. It should sound identical to a Dolby TrueHD soundtrack.

Linear PCM (LPCM): Linear PCM forms the foundation of all of these soundtrack formats. It's like the language all your home theater digital audio components speak. No matter what soundtrack format is used, it's eventually converted to linear PCM so your AV receiver can play it back. Some Blu-ray movies actually include soundtracks in linear PCM mode, which has some advantages--it's high quality and compatible with every Blu-ray player on the market. The downside is that LPCM takes up a lot of space on the disc, which is why most disc makers opt to use either a Dolby or DTS soundtrack format.

How much better is the sound?
While there's no denying that the specs of the new high-resolution audio soundtracks are superior, it's worth pointing out that there are diminishing returns to improved audio quality. In other words, don't expect to hear a tremendous difference over standard Dolby Digital and DTS soundtracks unless you have a high-end audio system--and even then, expect the difference to be relatively subtle. Even the experts have trouble hearing the differences in ideal environments.

Onboard decoding vs. bit stream
Like we mentioned before, linear PCM is essentially the universal language for your home theater components. That means if you want to listen to, say, a DTS-HD Master Audio soundtrack, it needs to be converted to linear PCM first. This process is usually called decoding, and it's performed either in your Blu-ray player or AV receiver. Let's take a look at the two options.

Blu-ray player with onboard decoding: If your Blu-ray player can decode Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio, it's said to have onboard decoding for that format. That means the player itself converts the soundtrack to linear PCM, which it can then send to a compatible receiver over its HDMI output. Blu-ray players with onboard decoding can also output soundtracks at their full resolution over multichannel analog outputs, if the player has such outputs.


The Sony BDP-S550's 7.1 analog outputs can transmit Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio soundtracks in their full resolution to older non-HDMI receivers.
AV receiver with onboard decoding: If your Blu-ray player doesn't have onboard decoding, it may have bit stream output capabilities. What this means is that it can pass, for example, a Dolby TrueHD soundtrack to a compatible receiver without doing any decoding. The receiver is then responsible for decoding it to linear PCM, which means the receiver needs to have onboard decoding.

One last point: contrary to what you might hear elsewhere, there's absolutely no sound-quality difference whether the decoding takes place in the receiver or the Blu-ray player. The common analogy is to "zipping" a file on your computer; it's the exact same file if you unzip it on another computer. The only real difference is that if you use onboard decoding on your Blu-ray player, you won't see the "Dolby TrueHD" or "DTS-HD Master Audio" lights on your receiver. That's because the receiver only knows it's receiving a linear PCM signal; it doesn't know how that linear PCM signal was previously compressed.

What logos should I look for?
Generally, you can identify the capabilities of a Blu-ray player or AV receiver by checking out the logos on the unit. This isn't a foolproof method--we've seen some products mislabeled--but the idea is that a product won't "earn" its logo unless it has the capabilities indicated by the logo. (If you want to be absolutely sure about a product's capabilities, try checking out its user manual online.)

Dolby: Dolby certification is pretty straightforward. If the product can decode Dolby TrueHD, it has a Dolby TrueHD logo; if it can decode Dolby Digital Plus, it has a Dolby Digital Plus logo. If it can't decode either new Dolby format, it will feature the standard Dolby Digital logo. There were some earlier products that featured the Dolby TrueHD logo that could only decode the format in stereo, but those are rare now.


The logos on the outside of a player can be helpful, but examine them closely, as they often look similar.
DTS: DTS certification is more confusing. If the product can decode DTS-HD Master Audio, it has a DTS-HD Master Audio logo; if it can decode DTS-HD High Resolution, it has a DTS-HD High Resolution logo. The logos look similar, so make sure you double-check. Sometimes you'll just see DTS-HD, and that usually means it's capable of decoding DTS-HD High Resolution, but not DTS-HD Master Audio. If it can't decode either new DTS format, it will feature the standard DTS logo.

DTS also has a DTS-HD Advanced Digital Out logo, which indicates that a Blu-ray player can output DTS-HD Master Audio and DTS-HD High Resolution in bit stream format to a compatible receiver. Again, the logo looks similar to other DTS-HD logos, so double-check the logos before you buy.

One last point: contrary to what you might hear elsewhere, there's absolutely no sound-quality difference whether the decoding takes place in the receiver or the Blu-ray player. The common analogy is to "zipping" a file on your computer; it's the exact same file if you unzip it on another computer. The only real difference is that if you use onboard decoding on your Blu-ray player, you won't see the "Dolby TrueHD" or "DTS-HD Master Audio" lights on your receiver. That's because the receiver only knows it's receiving a linear PCM signal; it doesn't know how that linear PCM signal was previously compressed.

I just wanted to emphasize this as well. To get from the source (eg, BD) to your ears, via the player, receiver, speakers, etc...it WILL become PCM, so whether the player or receiver makes it this way, is irrelevant. For example, when I check my audio signal in my receiver is says 5.1 PCM, and when I press 'select' (ie, signal info) on the PS3, is says 5.1 DTS-MA....

When using my PS3 I used to switch between Bitstream & Liner PCM in the settings as I have read that I should switch between the two for Blu-ray & DVD. If I leave it on Linear PCM by accident while watching DVD I can't use the PLIIx setting on my amp, it just says not used so I have to make sure it's set to bitstream. This is my amp a Sony STR-DG910. http://www.sony.co.uk/product/hcs-home-cinema-receiver/str-dg910

So for ages now I've used Linear PCM while watching Blu-ray & Bitstream for watching DVD. Now that I have 7.1 set up I obviously want to try & use all 7.1 but hit a problem when watching Blu-ray. I put on Avatar & switched my settings on the PS3 to Linear PCM & I can't use the PLIIx setting on my amp to have 7.1. it stays on 5.1. So I had a little mess about & switched the PS3 back over to Bitstream & got the usual warning come up before I hit ok "if you select bitstream, some of the audio from the BD may not be played" I hit ok & resumed the movie. The movie came on with no sound so I guess the warning was correct. I then went into audio settings on the blu-ray & changed it over from Dolby digital 5.1/DTS master audio to Dolby surround & I had sound again. All 7.1 speakers were working but my blue light indicating multi channel decoding on the amp wasn't lit up indicating I didn't have DD but across the front of my amp it said DD 2.0.

So If you can follow all that little lot can somebody clear up, is it worth having it in bitstream to watch Blu-ray & having audio set to Dolby surround to have 7.1 or will I get a much better sound having it in linear PCM & having DD 5.1?

When using my PS3 I used to switch between Bitstream & Liner PCM in the settings as I have read that I should switch between the two for Blu-ray & DVD. If I leave it on Linear PCM by accident while watching DVD I can't use the PLIIx setting on my amp, it just says not used so I have to make sure it's set to bitstream. This is my amp a Sony STR-DG910. http://www.sony.co.uk/product/hcs-home-cinema-receiver/str-dg910

So for ages now I've used Linear PCM while watching Blu-ray & Bitstream for watching DVD. Now that I have 7.1 set up I obviously want to try & use all 7.1 but hit a problem when watching Blu-ray. I put on Avatar & switched my settings on the PS3 to Linear PCM & I can't use the PLIIx setting on my amp to have 7.1. it stays on 5.1. So I had a little mess about & switched the PS3 back over to Bitstream & got the usual warning come up before I hit ok "if you select bitstream, some of the audio from the BD may not be played" I hit ok & resumed the movie. The movie came on with no sound so I guess the warning was correct. I then went into audio settings on the blu-ray & changed it over from Dolby digital 5.1/DTS master audio to Dolby surround & I had sound again. All 7.1 speakers were working but my blue light indicating multi channel decoding on the amp wasn't lit up indicating I didn't have DD but across the front of my amp it said DD 2.0.

So If you can follow all that little lot can somebody clear up, is it worth having it in bitstream to watch Blu-ray & having audio set to Dolby surround to have 7.1 or will I get a much better sound having it in linear PCM & having DD 5.1?

You need to set your amp to recognize it has 7.1 speakers (run your config again and run through Aydyssey (or whatever program to calibrate the speakers)) and then you'll need to run the audio set-up in PS3 to have it find all 7.1 speakers.

You need to set your amp to recognize it has 7.1 speakers (run your config again and run through Aydyssey (or whatever program to calibrate the speakers)) and then you'll need to run the audio set-up in PS3 to have it find all 7.1 speakers.

Well on my Sony amp I have auto-calibration which I have done already & all 7.1 speakers work ok when watching DVD, TV or gaming just when I put on a Blu-ray I get no 7.1 with Linear PCM selected on the PS3.

The only way I can get 7.1 watching Avatar is to set the PS3 to bitstream & select Dolby surround under audio options on the Blu-ray disc instead off Dolby 5.1/DTS master audio. Funny thing is it has options for English 5.1 descriptive audio as well as a few other languages & they are all Dolby 5.1 & the blue multi channel light is lit for those but if I select Dolby surround the light goes out & It doesn't sound as good.

Well on my Sony amp I have auto-calibration which I have done already & all 7.1 speakers work ok when watching DVD, TV or gaming just when I put on a Blu-ray I get no 7.1 with Linear PCM selected on the PS3.

The only way I can get 7.1 watching Avatar is to set the PS3 to bitstream & select Dolby surround under audio options on the Blu-ray disc instead off Dolby 5.1/DTS master audio. Funny thing is it has options for English 5.1 descriptive audio as well as a few other languages & they are all Dolby 5.1 & the blue multi channel light is lit for those but if I select Dolby surround the light goes out & It doesn't sound as good.

Did you run the PS3 audio set-up again? It's there you would see it pop up supporting 7.1. I don't have your AVR so I can't help you to that level. I trust your PS3 is a slim model?

Did you run the PS3 audio set-up again? It's there you would see it pop up supporting 7.1. I don't have your AVR so I can't help you to that level. I trust your PS3 is a slim model?

PS3 is a slim yes. When you say run the PS3 audio set up again, do you mean when you go into sound settings, select either optical, HDMI etc & then select either auto or manual to tick or un-tick all the boxes?

Some receivers don't apply the 10 db boost and bass management to the LFE channel from LPCM signals. Also, bitstream tends to be a bit higher then LPCM when referring to levels on your volume dial.

Not saying this is the case with your system, but with big action sequences, the above could lead to a perceived difference.

I've tried both with my setup, and with the exception of the slight volume level increase with bitstream, I haven't noticed an audible difference. Not to say there isn't one, as variables change with equipement and one's ears.

Sorry to keep this thread going, but my new 2010 Sony HDMI 1.4a AV Receiver has a setting for this. Basically it will increase the .1 LFE channel by 10 dB for LPCM signals.

So....basically if you set the PS3 to LPCM, then your (older?) receiver could be outputting a .1 LFE signal 10 dB lower than if you set the PS3 to bitstream. This makes sense because I too noticed a loudness difference on prior receivers I owned without the 10 dB setting for LPCM.

Guess this only matters for us folks that actually calibrate our systems with a dB meter. =P

For what its worth, I set the PS3 to bitstream anyways and let the receiver decode all the audio. I like to know I am truly getting the sound formats bitperfect from point A (PS3) to point B (AV Receiver).

PS3 is a slim yes. When you say run the PS3 audio set up again, do you mean when you go into sound settings, select either optical, HDMI etc & then select either auto or manual to tick or un-tick all the boxes?

When you run it (either manual or auto) does it show several 7.1 options for you to check?

When you run it (either manual or auto) does it show several 7.1 options for you to check?

Yes, the first time I ran it I selected manual & selected every box inc all the 7.1 options. Then last night I went back in & selected auto & all it selected was the PCM 2 channel.

Yes, the first time I ran it I selected manual & selected every box inc all the 7.1 options. Then last night I went back in & selected auto & all it selected was the PCM 2 channel.

That's interesting since the same thing happened to me setting up my father in law's new Slim PS3 last weekend (I have the FAT one).
Using optical it would not find 5.1 audio on 'auto' mode.

I hope others chime in on this since I ran into this problem for video on my PS3 when 3D came to it: it only found HD audio and video if I connected it to my receiver via HDMI "first" and ran the audio and video auto-find mode. If you unplug the HDMI (or was it the power cord) it would 'lose' the 3D mode and HD audio it 'found'.

When I'm there this Saturday I'll try that route - plugging HDMI into the receiver to 'find' all the HD/5.1 audio and then re-connect it to the TV.

I've learned a lot from you all. thanks for the bitstream/pcm chatter. I know I have my set up correct now. :)

Hi guys,

I've been doing a lot of reading through these threads about bitstream vs LPCM but unfortunately based on the discussions cannot finalise my theory about which method to use.

My simplest answer for anyone who wants to choose which method is to use LPCM because this ensures that you are getting the highest standard audio format being fed to your receiver regardless of the receiver's decoding capabilities (assuming the Blu-Ray player can decode the format itself which it generally should).

There are a lot of older receivers that have HDMI but can't decode formats such as Dolby True HD etc. That is why I would use LPCM because the blu-ray player can decode the format and send it to the receiver in a way that it understands.

The other main thing to consider between using Bitstream vs LPCM is how much additional processing the amplifier can apply to the sound under each format (ie. bass management, audyssey etc)

Putting that aside the part of my theory that I cannot conclude is about the effects of substituting the source component with another (ie. PS3 vs marantz UD5005) using Bitstream and then LPCM.

Here are my thoughts on the effects when using each method:
LPCM
If I changed the Blu-Ray player from the PS3 to the Marantz the final resulting sound will be different. This is because I'm using a higher quality player to decode the signal to LPCM before sending the signal to the receiver. The receiver then does the decoding of the LPCM signal and applies it's own processing, then you get the resulting sound.

Bitstream
If I changed the Blu-Ray player from the PS3 to the Marantz the final resulting sound will be the same. This is because both players are sending a raw lossless unprocessed signal (bistream) to the receiver. The receiver then converts it to LPCM, decodes the LPCM signal and applies it's own processing, then you get the resulting sound.

Any comments.
Essentially what I am trying to conclude from this is that if I have a fully capable receiver and use bitstream I could then purchase a cheaper blu-ray player (ie. ps3 instead of the marantz) and get the exact same sound.

I know when using LPCM the outcome is the higher quality of the player results in a higher quality sound, as I have physically heard the audio advantages of the marantz over the ps3 when using LPCM (the pre-amp was not able to decode the Dolby True HD signal if bitsream was used)

But what about when using bitstream and a pre-amp that is fully capable of doing all the decoding/processing?

Since bitstream is decoded in the receiver it shouldn't matter if you change players (sound wise). Of course the picture could be better or worse changing players.

Sigh, it seems like we are in an era this decade, of transitioning between receiver-level decoding and player-level decoding. In the olden days when DD 5.1 and DTS were the big shazza on DVDs, it was all about the Receiver. Now decoding seems to be done in the player more often...yet receivers still all have these fancy decoding capabilities, and aren't even using them as much because everything is being output in PCM anyway.

My questions are these...

Why can't the Fat PS3 send ANY kind of bitstream format it sees on a Blu-Ray to a receiver over HDMI? I have read posts stating that it can only send old DD 5.1 or DTS in bitstream format for decoding on the receiver end, not DTS-MA or DD-TrueHD. Why does the Fat PS3 insist on decoding the DTS-MA and TrueHD itself and sending it in PCM?

I don't mind using PCM for everything, but my concern is that I will lose the capability to use certain effects on the receiver end if I stick to using PCM only.

For example, my new Pioneer receiver (VSX-D521K) says if it receives a multichannel bitstream, it can apply the following effects: Dolby PLIIx Movie, Dolby PLIIx Music, DTS NEO:6, Etc.

So it seems that I'm losing out on all these possible effects if I can't bitstream from the PS3 and am forced to output in PCM. Is that right?

hardware. It wasn't designed for bitstreaming HD audio when it was engineered.

HDMI Versions.

The Fat had 1.2 (I'm guessing)

The Slim has 1.3

If your PS3 sends Dolby Digital, DTS, DTS-MA, Dolby TrueHD, etc. to your receiver, why would you want to downgrade it to Dolby PLII?

Sigh, it seems like we are in an era this decade, of transitioning between receiver-level decoding and player-level decoding. In the olden days when DD 5.1 and DTS were the big shazza on DVDs, it was all about the Receiver. Now decoding seems to be done in the player more often...yet receivers still all have these fancy decoding capabilities, and aren't even using them as much because everything is being output in PCM anyway.

My questions are these...

Why can't the Fat PS3 send ANY kind of bitstream format it sees on a Blu-Ray to a receiver over HDMI? I have read posts stating that it can only send old DD 5.1 or DTS in bitstream format for decoding on the receiver end, not DTS-MA or DD-TrueHD. Why does the Fat PS3 insist on decoding the DTS-MA and TrueHD itself and sending it in PCM?

I don't mind using PCM for everything, but my concern is that I will lose the capability to use certain effects on the receiver end if I stick to using PCM only.

For example, my new Pioneer receiver (VSX-D521K) says if it receives a multichannel bitstream, it can apply the following effects: Dolby PLIIx Movie, Dolby PLIIx Music, DTS NEO:6, Etc.

So it seems that I'm losing out on all these possible effects if I can't bitstream from the PS3 and am forced to output in PCM. Is that right?

No, everything set up correctly and being level matched there should not be any difference.

I've just noticed that when my slim PS3 is set to Bitstream, there is a one to two second delay before the audio kicks in when I skip chapters or titles switch on blu-rays. This really bothers me, so I'm keeping it on Linear PCM from now on.

Hi

I have it set to lpcm for 7.1, however, mlb.tv is stereo *I think

Is there an easier way to change the audio output, or do I have to go to the sound settings every time I want to listen to something with surround processing *like stereo music or mlb.tv*

MLB has a great feature where you can have park sound, but it's lost in stereo when my Onk receiver does not reprocess multichannel in

Hi

I have it set to lpcm for 7.1, however, mlb.tv is stereo *I think

Is there an easier way to change the audio output, or do I have to go to the sound settings every time I want to listen to something with surround processing *like stereo music or mlb.tv*

MLB has a great feature where you can have park sound, but it's lost in stereo when my Onk receiver does not reprocess multichannel inI was under the impression that this had already been fixed through a prior firmware update (games and movies that output less than 7.1 would actually be output in those other formats so AVRs could process them correctly). Maybe I'm wrong, though.

If your PS3 sends Dolby Digital, DTS, DTS-MA, Dolby TrueHD, etc. to your receiver, why would you want to downgrade it to Dolby PLII?

He was talking about using Dolby PLIIx, which is not the same as just PLII.

I don't mind using PCM for everything, but my concern is that I will lose the capability to use certain effects on the receiver end if I stick to using PCM only.

For example, my new Pioneer receiver (VSX-D521K) says if it receives a multichannel bitstream, it can apply the following effects: Dolby PLIIx Movie, Dolby PLIIx Music, DTS NEO:6, Etc.

So it seems that I'm losing out on all these possible effects if I can't bitstream from the PS3 and am forced to output in PCM. Is that right?

If your AVR can't apply PLIIx to PCM sources then yes you would lose out on those options. Every AVR is different. Many can apply PLIIx to both bitstream and PCM. Some can't with PCM but work with bitstream.

Even if your manual doesn't state it I would check it yourself to make sure. Manuals often have incorrect or information that is left out of them. I would physically verify it. You may find it works with PCM sources as well. It will be really easy to check

Alright I'm sort of lost here. I just got a Denon AVR-1712 receiver and it supports HDMI. So in order to get the best audio quality from my PS3 is to set it to PCM mode? I had select HDMI audio for the sound settings and had my PS3 automatically detect all supportable audio formats and i see a bunch of Linear PCM formats. I never really heard of this before. I'm used to DD5.1 and DTS usually from watching movies and stuff. So this is new to me and I'm trying to understand this new Linear PCM mode. Is this only a PS3 thing? I've never seen this mode being used when watching movies which is usually DTS or DD.

I tried testing it out and played Skate 3, and noticed that my receiver showed "MULTICHANNEL IN" But the game say it supports DD5.1. So how come it isn't using DD5.1 mode? What does multichannel in mean? is this mode better and does it support 5.1 surround mode? If someone can clear this up for me once and for all. I'll greatly appreciate it.

Thanks in advance!

Alright I'm sort of lost here. I just got a Denon AVR-1712 receiver and it supports HDMI. So in order to get the best audio quality from my PS3 is to set it to PCM mode? I had select HDMI audio for the sound settings and had my PS3 automatically detect all supportable audio formats and i see a bunch of Linear PCM formats. I never really heard of this before. I'm used to DD5.1 and DTS usually from watching movies and stuff. So this is new to me and I'm trying to understand this new Linear PCM mode. Is this only a PS3 thing? I've never seen this mode being used when watching movies which is usually DTS or DD.

I tried testing it out and played Skate 3, and noticed that my receiver showed "MULTICHANNEL IN" But the game say it supports DD5.1. So how come it isn't using DD5.1 mode? What does multichannel in mean? is this mode better and does it support 5.1 surround mode? If someone can clear this up for me once and for all. I'll greatly appreciate it.

Thanks in advance!

you have it set up correctly. You will always see MULTICHANNEL IN on your AVR when watching any audio format. Click 'info' on the PS3 remote and you'll see what audio is being decoded in the PS3 and sent to the AVR (it will appear on your TV screen).

I just picked up a new slim 160gb ps3. I had a launch 60gb before. I used Linear PCM previously but would like my Onkyo TX-NR1007 receiver to do the decoding so I've chosen bitstream this time around.

Am I losing anything by choosing bitstream? From what I've read that answer is no with the new slims - but then a warning pops up when you choose Bitstream on the PS3 that says if you pick this option you might miss out on some sounds.

BUMPKIS

I want to see something besides multichannel when I play my movies. :p

My PS3 just got the YLOD and I switched a stand alone Blue-Ray player with bitstreaming.

I haven't noticed anything other than the menu popup noises are gone. Makes sense since those sound effects are not mixed into the original track. I didn't like them anyways.

It maybe my imagination, but I think the Yamaha is processing the LFE better than the PS3 did...

My understanding is that what you lose with bitstreaming would be the audio commentary on certain movies...which may not be an issue if you're not into that anyway. I have a 250gb slim and a Yamaha RX-V665, and based on everything I had read, I opted for bitstreaming; however, about two or three months ago I tried LPCM just to see if it sounded any different. To me and my wife, it sounded better. I guess it just sounded "bigger" overall (sorry if that's not the best way to say it). I'm not an audiophile, so I'm sure there's more going on than this, but to my ears, it just sounded better.

My understanding is that what you lose with bitstreaming would be the audio commentary on certain movies...which may not be an issue if you're not into that anyway. I have a 250gb slim and a Yamaha RX-V665, and based on everything I had read, I opted for bitstreaming; however, about two or three months ago I tried LPCM just to see if it sounded any different. To me and my wife, it sounded better. I guess it just sounded "bigger" overall (sorry if that's not the best way to say it). I'm not an audiophile, so I'm sure there's more going on than this, but to my ears, it just sounded better.

There's a 6-8 db difference when switching from one to the other.

The answer is to just turn up the volume ;-)

There's a 6-8 db difference when switching from one to the other.

The answer is to just turn up the volume ;-)

Well honestly, I figured that that's probably all there was to it. I started thinking about this more and more when I was playing the BF3 beta. I downloaded it on both the PS3 and on 360, and I noticed that it was much louder on the 360. I shouldn't say that it was just louder...it sounded much more "full" with much more "punch" or "impact" (yes, I know how generic those terms are...). I could just turn the volume up much louder when using the PS3, but I was worried that it may just be that the PS3 sends a quieter signal to begin with. Then I tried changing the bitstream/LPCM setting while watching a blu-ray and found that the LPCM sounded louder and more full...so for the sake of convenience, I kept it there.

So it looks like the general consensus is (taken from an earlier poster):

PS3 Fat = Linear PCM (through HDMI)
Slim = bitstream or Linear PCM (through HDMI)

I have a newer receiver that does pretty much everything (Onkyo NR809). I use Audyssey Mutli EQ XT. I have the fat ps3. I have noticed that when I set the ps3 to Bitstream, the sound is much louder at the same volume when watching blurays, and seems to sound better than setting to LPCM. Why is this if LCPM is the recommended stetting for my setup?

I am at a loss on what is correct when Bitstream seems to sound better. Not sure if I should leave it on Bitstream as I don't want to miss out on True HD not coming across correctly since I have the fat PS3.

Thanks.

Just leave it as LPCM. The PS3 will be doing the mixing, so you guarantee you hear all sound effects.

You might switch it to Bitstream during a BluRay movie though.

I have tried using LPCM and Bitstream on my setup and there doesn't seem to be a drastic difference. However, midrange sounds are not very evident. The highs and lows sound great but the mids are lacking. In fact, playing movies with DTS tracks on my WDTV Hub tend to sound better(which is thoroughly disappointing). I'm running a Pioneer Elite VSX-53 to a pair of B&W towers and a Martin Logan sub. Anyone have a suggestion as to why the mids are not prevalent?

You did not mention, are the mids not there on both LPCM and Bitstream? Have you double-checked the sound settings on your PS3? Is this through HDMI? Is center channel working when you play back?

They are not there on either LPCM or Bitstream and I've checked the settings multiple times. I'm not currently using a center, the system is a 2.1 and I've formatted the receiver to output the audio as such. Everything else sounds fine, Xbox, hub, directv, it's just the PS3 underperforming

Strange, I can't think of anything. I've literally had four PS3s (two phats, traded in for two slims) and have never seen that issue. My initial thought is the center channel was turned on but not working, but sounds like you have that covered.

Yea it doesn't make sense to me but it is very frustrating. I may try restoring factory settings and starting from scratch. Sometimes that's the only thing that inexplicably works but I was hoping someone had a suggestion.

Yea it doesn't make sense to me but it is very frustrating. I may try restoring factory settings and starting from scratch. Sometimes that's the only thing that inexplicably works but I was hoping someone had a suggestion.

Sounds like a strange issue, but before restoring, you may want to at least try the basic stuff like a different HDMI cable and a different port on your receiver. This won't fix your issue, but considering you are only running a 2.1 setup and won't lose anything, maybe try an optical cable for audio.

Sounds like a strange issue, but before restoring, you may want to at least try the basic stuff like a different HDMI cable and a different port on your receiver. This won't fix your issue, but considering you are only running a 2.1 setup and won't lose anything, maybe try an optical cable for audio.

I may try a different port but if memory serves correctly the last time I rearranged the connections the PS3 was in fact running through a different port. I think the chance the HDMI cable itself is the problem is unlikely in this case since there is only a certain frequency range that is not being heard and I'm using an AudioQuest Carbon HDMI for the PS3.

I appreciate the suggestion and I will give it a shot.

You might switch it to Bitstream during a BluRay movie though.


Thanks, but why would I do this during a BluRay when that is the media that may use HD sound?

Thanks, but why would I do this during a BluRay when that is the media that may use HD sound?

if you have a fat PS3 use LPCM for blu ray movies or you won't get true lossless sound and won't be taking advantage of DTS MA or Dolby Tru HD. You will get DTS 5.1 and DD 5.1, and they may sound louder, but they aren't lossless or better. I would use LPCM for gaming as well with a fat ps3.

I think the chance the HDMI cable itself is the problem is unlikely in this case since there is only a certain frequency range that is not being heard and I'm using an AudioQuest Carbon HDMI for the PS3.


Correct. Bits are bits, you either get them or you don't. But I wonder if something is set on that port on your receiver that's causing it. That's why I'd think trying another port would be a good idea.

I think the chance the HDMI cable itself is the problem is unlikely in this case since there is only a certain frequency range that is not being heard and I'm using an AudioQuest Carbon HDMI for the PS3.


Yeah I agree, if there was an issue with one of the audio/video pins you would likely see other issues, but it's always good to eliminate as many variables as possible.

Correct. Bits are bits, you either get them or you don't. But I wonder if something is set on that port on your receiver that's causing it. That's why I'd think trying another port would be a good idea.

I'll be trying all suggestions after I get back from my trip this weekend, I appreciate the suggestions, and hopefully the issue gets resolved.

I did have to hard reset my receiver a couple of weeks ago because video was not being output for reasons I don't know why but everything seemed to be working fine, minus the issues with the audio in the PS3. So the port may not be totally "agreeing" with the signal input for the port of the PS3 now for who knows why. Just one of those things I suppose....:confused:

I'm in the boat where bitstream sounds better. I have a PS3 Slim with a Yamaha RX-A810 and when pkaying How to Train Your Dragon the sound was much louder and the LFE in the bass was deeper and more punch. I have ARX3 main speakers, ARX2 center, ARX1 surround with a HSU VTF3 MK4 sub.

audiophiles will tell you the 8db increase doesn't mean "better".

Just turn up the volume. You can add 108db if needed ;-)

All this talk of loudness has got me confused. Some people are saying PCM sounds louder, others are saying bitstream is louder. I have to watch movies on a TV with one speaker, so audio quality is not a major issue for me, but if "louder" means that clipping and distortion is being introduced then it's a problem.

I'm also wondering, if a 5.1 soundtrack is being funnelled into one speaker, would that cause distortion, or does the TV/PS3 have ways of handling it?

So I spent the weekend trading PS3's with my folks (my old, 60-gig fat PS3 for their newer slim) and even though this has been beaten to death, the audio does certainly seem to sound better.

For reference, my AVR is a Pioneer VSX-50 and is quite good at switching between formats. I am running bitstream (I ran LPCM on the fat).

I was just wondering if anyone else had a similar experience or traded up machines and felt the same way.

I had 2 phats, now have 2 slims. Sound is exactly the same, and I have a fairly nice home theater setup (Pio 1021, Boston Acoustic mains, Outlaw LFM-1 EX sub, etc.) Placebo effect at best. Maybe it's just that you can HEAR the audio now instead of the old phat's fan! :)

I had 2 phats, now have 2 slims. Sound is exactly the same, and I have a fairly nice home theater setup (Pio 1021, Boston Acoustic mains, Outlaw LFM-1 EX sub, etc.) Placebo effect at best. Maybe it's just that you can HEAR the audio now instead of the old phat's fan! :)

Possibly. I also think I have auto surround set on the Pioneer.