The title says it all..
What exactly is the difference between Bitstream vs. Linear PCM? ... the two options you have to choose from when choosing HDMI Audio Out from the settings. What exactly do I need to choose in order for the sound to come out the way it should? Does Linear PCM need to be chosen in order for PCM soundtracks from a blu-ray disc to output at its optimum?

When I play Pursuit of Happyness in 5.1 PCM (Bitstream enabled), my receiver will show that PCM is active. When I play it in 5.1 English (Bitstream enabled), my receiver will whos that Dolby Digital is active. But the 5.1 English sounds louder than the 5.1 PCM. But shouldn't that be the other way around... 5.1 PCM is uncompressed. When I play both soundtracks with Linear PCM enabled, my receiver will only show PCM active (even if I play the 5.1 English soundtrack).

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks

Bitstream is basically the raw undecoded data being sent to the receiver for it to decode. PCM means that the PS3 is converting to PCM and sending it to the receiver which pretty much all receivers understand.

HDMI has the bandwidth for 8 channels of uncompressed pcm audio while optical only has capability for 2 channels of uncompressed audio.

You can think of the DD track like a .zip file on your computer and the PCM like a .wav file on your PC. The receiver can only play .wav sound (PCM) so at some point it needs to unzip (or decode) the DD track into a PCM stream in order to play it. Setting the PS3 to bitstream makes the PS3 send whatever's on the disc to the receiver, where setting to Linear PCM causes it to be converted to PCM in the player before sending to the receiver. Hence, when playing the PCM soundtrack, the receiver gets PCM regardless of the setting.

You might want to leave the setting as Bitstream so at least you know when you're accidently using the DD soundtrack because your receiver will tell you. In terms of volume, this is seperate from compression. Compression will cause the sound quality/clarity to decrease but it can still be recorded at a much higher volume to give you poor quality but very loud sound in comparison to the PCM soundtrack.

Assuming we have an receiver capable of accepting PCM audio via HDMI, which is the 'better' way?

Should we have the PS3 decode or have the receiver decode?

Would there be a difference?

I have a PS3 and a Sony DG810. I will try to do some testing tonight or tomorrow to see what my results are and if I can tell a difference or if I have any difficulties.

I just set it to use PCM because I wanted to have access to the PCM tracks when available. Learning new stuff everyday.

You'll get the multichannel PCM tracks over HDMI even when HDMI is set to bitstream on the PS3. However, you lose sounds mixed and overlayed by the PS3 (e.g., menu sounds seen in numerous BD titles currently available) when listening to DD or DTS on BDs.

With regards to legacy DD and DTS, there is no quality difference between the PCM and bitstream settings with my Denon AVR-4306. For me, setting the PS3 to decode DD or DTS results in the same quality as when letting my receiver directly handle the lossy codecs. I tested this by using numerous movie scenes that strongly engage all channels.

I have my PS3 set to PCM, because this way my Denon applies its AL24 processing regardless of what I'm listening to, and I always get sounds mixed by the PS3 itself.

Jiffylush,
I just want to clarify.. you probably already know this but just wanted to make sure you knew. The PCM tracks are available to play when I set the PS3 to bitstream... my receiver confirms it by showing "MPCM" when playing the 5.1 PCM track as opposed to "Dolby Digital" when playing the 5.1 Dolby track.

Please let us know what you're able to learn when testing.

Thanks

[QUOTE=ase8776]The title says it all..
What exactly is the difference between Bitstream vs. Linear PCM? ... the two options you have to choose from when choosing HDMI Audio Out from the settings. What exactly do I need to choose in order for the sound to come out the way it should? Does Linear PCM need to be chosen in order for PCM soundtracks from a blu-ray disc to output at its optimum?Linear PCM is recommended over regular DD. :)

When I play Pursuit of Happyness in 5.1 PCM (Bitstream enabled), my receiver will show that PCM is active. When I play it in 5.1 English (Bitstream enabled), my receiver will whos that Dolby Digital is active. But the 5.1 English sounds louder than the 5.1 PCM. But shouldn't that be the other way around... 5.1 PCM is uncompressed. When I play both soundtracks with Linear PCM enabled, my receiver will only show PCM active (even if I play the 5.1 English soundtrack).Did you switch from HDMI to Optical output when you noticed this difference? :confused:

wow.
Depending on which Thread I look at.. it's either bitstream is better or Linear PCM.

Can anyone give me the best answer?

I have a PS3. I use it for mostly regular DVD's...and right now just a few Blu-Ray titles.
I have a Denon AVR-4800 receiver. (It's about 7 or 8 years old now)
It doesn't have HDMI, so I have the audio hooked up via Optical wire.

Which should I have my settings at? Linear PCM or bitstream?

Using only optical, it isn't possible to get the best performance.

You have to choose between multichannel (5.1, 7.1) compressed sound (ie like MP3s) or lossless 2 channel sound (akin to CD or even as good as SACD or DVD-A with some movies).
You can fake multichannel using something like Dolby Prologic and still retain the benefits of lossless which some people like. You should try both methods and see which you like the better.

Nothing beats getting both lossless and discrete multichannel output. HDMI is the only way to achieve this. But if you can't hear the difference between lossless and lossy compression then all the better for you and your wallet.

linear pcm if you want uncompressed audio. bitstream if you want regular Dolby digital.

seriously, if you want uncompressed audio, go with pcm. not everything has this, but its worth it if it does. just played some folklore in uncompressed, and man, it has some good sound.

wow.
Depending on which Thread I look at.. it's either bitstream is better or Linear PCM.

Can anyone give me the best answer?

I have a PS3. I use it for mostly regular DVD's...and right now just a few Blu-Ray titles.
I have a Denon AVR-4800 receiver. (It's about 7 or 8 years old now)
It doesn't have HDMI, so I have the audio hooked up via Optical wire.

Which should I have my settings at? Linear PCM or bitstream?

since no one has answered the question which is better bit stream or PCM, i will answer it for anyone that wants to know. pcm is better , it is loss less audio and it's the way the original is supposed to sound. typically DD double digital which is sent bit stream is around 600 kb and pcm loss less is usually sent around 5.0+ mbs . the pcm track will be much clearer and more i guess defined when compared to double digital, but you must have a receiver that excepts pcm audio like my onkyo tx-sr604. you can clearly hear a difference between DD vs PCM and pcm is better. hope this helps

The question is really about audio output modes on the PS3, not the audio formats on the disc. The audio track on the disc is either Linear PCM or a compressed format (which can be lossy, like DD/DTS, or lossless, like DD TrueHD or DTS-MA).

If you set the PS3 to output bitstream, then it will send exactly what's on the disc without modifying it at all, and it's up to your receiver to decode whatever needs decoding. If the PS3 is set to output PCM, then it will decode compressed formats into Linear PCM and send that LPCM stream to the receiver.

When you've selected a PCM soundtrack from the disc, then the PS3 will be sending PCM to the receiver regardless of the setting. However, as mentioned above, if the PS3 is set to bitstream then it won't be able to make any changes to the audio stream, such as mixing in menu sounds.

At this point, there's really no reason to select bitstream output on the PS3 unless your receiver has problems receiving multichannel PCM via HDMI. The PS3 is perfectly capable of decoding any of the available audio formats except DTS-MA (which is currently neither decoded nor passed as bitstream), and you get the ability for it to mix in additional audio.

The BD format is really designed for the player to do audio decoding anyway; the ability to pass the HD audio formats (DD TrueHD and DTS-MA) as bitstream to the receiver, which requires HDMI 1.3, is something that was demanded by the receiver manufacturers so that they could badge their receivers as "True-HD Capable" and "DTS-MA Capable". In reality, any receiver that can receive multichannel PCM over HDMI is capable of playing these formats, as long as the player does the decoding, which is what they're designed to do.

And having the player decode is usually a much better option anyway, because of the ease of firmware updates. New standards and audio formats can be created, but the receiver doesn't care, since it's getting it's pcm stream just like always.

About the only argument for going bitstream and letting the receiver doing it, is if you have a very advanced receiver that is processing the inbound signal, and adding additional speakers/effects. But, if your receiver is that advanced, it should be able to do the same thing with the pcm stream anyway. Now, if your receiver can process something that the player can't (i.e. DTS-MA), then I could understand switching to bitstream.

I have a question with regards to PCM vs Bitstream. My receiver can only do 2 channels of PCM (even over HDMI) and I recently found out that the movie SWAT has a 5.1 PCM track and no legacy tracks like DD or DTS. My question is how would I set up my PS3 to get some form of 5.1 sound out of it going into my receiver? Would I simply changing the audio output on the PS3 to bitstream or pcm remedy this?

I have a question with regards to PCM vs Bitstream. My receiver can only do 2 channels of PCM (even over HDMI) and I recently found out that the movie SWAT has a 5.1 PCM track and no legacy tracks like DD or DTS. My question is how would I set up my PS3 to get some form of 5.1 sound out of it going into my receiver? Would I simply changing the audio output on the PS3 to bit stream or pcm remedy this?
well since your receiver can only do 2 channel pcm it will not process it that way. your probably better off going bit stream and letting the receiver process it that way. the way to do this without changing the setting on the ps3 is during the start of the movie hit the triangle button to bring up the on screen dvd/blu ray settings. then go to the far right and look for a symbol that looks a little like an oval with lines through it and hit x. next skip over the noise reduction ect.. setting and go to the bottom to the audio output setting and hit x and move it to bit stream if it's on pcm and then back out and play the movie and it should be good to go. i do this for my dvd's because they don't have pcm tracks just DD and dts tracks so it's a lot easier to do it that way then on the ps3 setting menu. oh course this will not work if your receiver doesn't do dd or dts ,but i assume yours does hope this helps

I have a question with regards to PCM vs Bitstream. My receiver can only do 2 channels of PCM (even over HDMI) and I recently found out that the movie SWAT has a 5.1 PCM track and no legacy tracks like DD or DTS. My question is how would I set up my PS3 to get some form of 5.1 sound out of it going into my receiver? Would I simply changing the audio output on the PS3 to bitstream or pcm remedy this?

Ouch. I'm not sure there is a fix for that one. I don't believe the PS3, or any player, can actually do DD or DTS encoding on-the-fly, so I can't see any way for the PS3 to produce a 5.1 output stream that the receiver can handle.

The receiver should be advertising its capabilities to the PS3 over HDMI, so the PS3 should know to downmix to 2.0 PCM when its in PCM output mode. What happens if you set it to bitstream? I would imagine that either the PS3 would see that the receiver's not capable of receiving the 5.1 PCM and refuse to send it, or the receiver itself would fail to receive the bitstream. Do you get any sound at all with bitstream?

well since your receiver can only do 2 channel pcm it will not process it that way. your probably better off going bit stream and letting the receiver process it that way. the way to do this without changing the setting on the ps3 is during the start of the movie hit the triangle button to bring up the on screen dvd/blu ray settings. then go to the far right and look for a symbol that looks a little like an oval with lines through it and hit x. next skip over the noise reduction ect.. setting and go to the bottom to the audio output setting and hit x and move it to bit stream if it's on pcm and then back out and play the movie and it should be good to go. i do this for my dvd's because they don't have pcm tracks just DD and dts tracks so it's a lot easier to do it that way then on the ps3 setting menu. oh course this will not work if your receiver doesn't do dd or dts ,but i assume yours does hope this helps

thanks, this was very helpful. I'll try it when my PS3 arrives. and yes, my receiver can do DD and DTS.

Ouch. I'm not sure there is a fix for that one. I don't believe the PS3, or any player, can actually do DD or DTS encoding on-the-fly, so I can't see any way for the PS3 to produce a 5.1 output stream that the receiver can handle.

The receiver should be advertising its capabilities to the PS3 over HDMI, so the PS3 should know to downmix to 2.0 PCM when its in PCM output mode. What happens if you set it to bitstream? I would imagine that either the PS3 would see that the receiver's not capable of receiving the 5.1 PCM and refuse to send it, or the receiver itself would fail to receive the bitstream. Do you get any sound at all with bitstream?

Since I don't have my ps3 yet (it should arrive tuesday) I can't test it out but this was one of my concerns knowing the capabilities of my receiver. I'll report back once I've had a chance to test out the previously mentioned solution.

linear pcm if you want uncompressed audio. bitstream if you want regular Dolby digital.

seriously, if you want uncompressed audio, go with pcm. not everything has this, but its worth it if it does. just played some folklore in uncompressed, and man, it has some good sound.


totally agree..I have a PS3 and a Onkyo 705, when I set my PS3 to PCM, BD's sound better via the Multichannel PCM sound option, but when regular DVD's are played Bitstream option sounds better.

For me its pretty simple: If the disc has regular DD or DTS, I always set my PS3 to bitstream and let the receiver do the decoding, because the DD tracks are MUCH louder and sound better through my Yamaha RX-V2700 than a DD track that I let the PS3 decode and send as LPCM.

On the flipside, if the disc is uncompressed audio, I'll set the PS3 to LPCM.

Ok. I'm not sure if anyone knows anything about my receiver. It's a Denon AVR-4800 THX Ultra Surround EX receiver that requires a second amplifier if I wanted 7.1 surround sound. This was a $2000 amp 10 years ago.

So... Could I get an additional 2-channel amp with HDMI, and somehow get the Lossless audio sound?

Yes, but you wouldn't use the 4800 for anything except for an amp. Unless it has really great solid state amps in it, or just a sick amount of power, you won't need it.
I also doubt there are any 2 channel amps with HDMI in them.....2 channel amps are usually don't have digital inputs, only stereo. At least in the last few years, I've never seen anything like it. You would need to replace your receiver with a new one or a pre/pro and 7 channel amp setup to get 7.1 and LLAS.

wow.
Depending on which Thread I look at.. it's either bitstream is better or Linear PCM.

Can anyone give me the best answer?

I have a PS3. I use it for mostly regular DVD's...and right now just a few Blu-Ray titles.
I have a Denon AVR-4800 receiver. (It's about 7 or 8 years old now)
It doesn't have HDMI, so I have the audio hooked up via Optical wire.

Which should I have my settings at? Linear PCM or bitstream?

When you use Optical Out connection, select Bitstream, NOT Linear PCM, which will downmix the audio track to 2.0!:)

Ok. I'm not sure if anyone knows anything about my receiver. It's a Denon AVR-4800 THX Ultra Surround EX receiver that requires a second amplifier if I wanted 7.1 surround sound. This was a $2000 amp 10 years ago.

So... Could I get an additional 2-channel amp with HDMI, and somehow get the Lossless audio sound?If you intend to keep the PS3 and want to hear lossless audio, get an HDMI 1.1 receiver.:)

typically DD double digital which is sent bit stream is around 600 kb and pcm loss less is usually sent around 5.0+ mbs . the pcm track will be much clearer and more i guess defined when compared to double digital,

Hehe, Dolby son....Dolby.

If you use a PS3 with an hdmi receiver that can do multi pcm, select PCM, period.

The question is really about audio output modes on the PS3, not the audio formats on the disc. The audio track on the disc is either Linear PCM or a compressed format (which can be lossy, like DD/DTS, or lossless, like DD TrueHD or DTS-MA).

If you set the PS3 to output bitstream, then it will send exactly what's on the disc without modifying it at all, and it's up to your receiver to decode whatever needs decoding. If the PS3 is set to output PCM, then it will decode compressed formats into Linear PCM and send that LPCM stream to the receiver.

When you've selected a PCM soundtrack from the disc, then the PS3 will be sending PCM to the receiver regardless of the setting. However, as mentioned above, if the PS3 is set to bitstream then it won't be able to make any changes to the audio stream, such as mixing in menu sounds.

At this point, there's really no reason to select bitstream output on the PS3 unless your receiver has problems receiving multichannel PCM via HDMI. The PS3 is perfectly capable of decoding any of the available audio formats except DTS-MA (which is currently neither decoded nor passed as bitstream), and you get the ability for it to mix in additional audio.

The BD format is really designed for the player to do audio decoding anyway; the ability to pass the HD audio formats (DD TrueHD and DTS-MA) as bitstream to the receiver, which requires HDMI 1.3, is something that was demanded by the receiver manufacturers so that they could badge their receivers as "True-HD Capable" and "DTS-MA Capable". In reality, any receiver that can receive multichannel PCM over HDMI is capable of playing these formats, as long as the player does the decoding, which is what they're designed to do.

So, even though my receiver (Onkyo 605) can decode the DTS-MA codec, the PS3 cannot get it to the receiver?

Why does everyone want the PS3 to pass the sound bitstream if L-PCM is better?

Just to clarify for myself, if I'm using optical out then I should have it set to Bitstream correct? I am using a home theater in a box (the pioneer Xbox 360 surround sound system, I don't remember the model number)

So, even though my receiver (Onkyo 605) can decode the DTS-MA codec, the PS3 cannot get it to the receiver?

Why does everyone want the PS3 to pass the sound bitstream if L-PCM is better?

As I understand it, the PS3 currently does not pass DTS-MA as bitstream over HDMI. There's been some discussion here that suggests the current models of PS3 may never do so, as the HDMI 1.3 transceiver chips used in the current models are very early production models which do not implement the ability to pass HD audio formats as bitstream (which as an optional part of the HDMI 1.3 spec). However, nobody seems to know for sure.

I think in the case of DTS-MA, no one knows when the PS3's getting the ability to decode it internally, so that's why they're hoping for the ability to pass it as bitstream to a receiver like the 605 that can decode it.

As I understand it, the PS3 currently does not pass DTS-MA as bitstream over HDMI. There's been some discussion here that suggests the current models of PS3 may never do so, as the HDMI 1.3 transceiver chips used in the current models are very early production models which do not implement the ability to pass HD audio formats as bitstream (which as an optional part of the HDMI 1.3 spec). However, nobody seems to know for sure.

I think in the case of DTS-MA, no one knows when the PS3's getting the ability to decode it internally, so that's why they're hoping for the ability to pass it as bitstream to a receiver like the 605 that can decode it.

i think we're more likely to get internal decoding then bitstreaming to a hdmi 1.3 receiver.

PCM. There is simply no advantage to having an AVR decode over the player.

PCM. There is simply no advantage to having an AVR decode over the player.

but you get cool lights that tell you what your listening to:rolleyes:

PCM. There is simply no advantage to having an AVR decode over the player.

Um, yeah there is. I dont know about all receivers, but my Yamaha RX-V2700 has a significantly different level when listening to DD/DTS through Bitstream (letting AVR decode) as opposed to PCM (letting PS3 decode and send to receiver). Overall the soundfield is noticeably better if I let the AVR do the decoding.

I switch back and forth depending on the audio track of the particular movie Im watching....but at least thats a nice feature of the PS3, you can change bitstream/PCM on the fly. My HD-A2 you have to stop the movie and go to the setup menu. Bah

Um, yeah there is. I dont know about all receivers, but my Yamaha RX-V2700 has a significantly different level when listening to DD/DTS through Bitstream (letting AVR decode) as opposed to PCM (letting PS3 decode and send to receiver). Overall the soundfield is noticeably better if I let the AVR do the decoding.

Uh, why? Not familiar with your AVR, but my Denon 4306 handles PCM streams like it should (a level 7 receiver if you hit the Amp/Receiver section and the sticky on top). Not saying you're not hearing it better but that would be a problem with the way your receiver handles PCM versus bitstream and anecdotal to owners of specific AVRs rather than an issue intrinsic to PCM versus bitstream.


I switch back and forth depending on the audio track of the particular movie Im watching....but at least thats a nice feature of the PS3, you can change bitstream/PCM on the fly. My HD-A2 you have to stop the movie and go to the setup menu. Bah

Yeah. Can't recall ever changing audio midstream on the 360 / HDDVD but the PS3 is definitely much more versatile in changing on the fly. Not only audio but video/upscaling options, as well.

Um, yeah there is. I dont know about all receivers, but my Yamaha RX-V2700 has a significantly different level when listening to DD/DTS through Bitstream (letting AVR decode) as opposed to PCM (letting PS3 decode and send to receiver). Overall the soundfield is noticeably better if I let the AVR do the decoding.

I agree with you. I have a Yamaha HTR-6090 and the sound seems fuller and richer when I send it bitstream to the receiver instead of PCM. It logically doesn't make sense, but it is a noticeable difference.

PCM. There is simply no advantage to having an AVR decode over the player.

On some receivers there is. If the receiver is doing everything "right", it should be exactly the same. But as we know, receivers have all sorts of bizarre behavior.

Having said that, an important feature for everyone buying a receiver right now should be that is handles PCM the exact same way as bitstream, because HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players are going to be doing the decoding themselves and passing PCM.

On some receivers there is. If the receiver is doing everything "right", it should be exactly the same. But as we know, receivers have all sorts of bizarre behavior.

Having said that, an important feature for everyone buying a receiver right now should be that is handles PCM the exact same way as bitstream, because HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players are going to be doing the decoding themselves and passing PCM.
I haven't tested this out, but I have a theory as to why the bitstream sounds better then PCM from the PS3 on the Yamaha receivers. I believe the richer, fuller sound might be coming from additional processing done to the bitstream from the PS3. Yamaha has "Cinema DSP" programs which emphasize the surround sound coming from the Dolby Digital or DTS bitstreams, thus creating a fuller surround sound. If the data is coming via PCM, however, this additional processing might not apply.

I'm going to put in a movie and see if that is the difference.

Are you Yamaha users using Surround Standard or Enhanced? Enhanced applies Cinema DSP on top of the decoded audio. I will try bitstream and compare for myself - Yamaha RX-V1600.

Sure enough! The audio does seem more dynamic when processed by the Yamaha. The audio seems much more dynamic. There is a vast difference in volume level (which probably contributes to the perceptive difference), but it really does seem to be more dynamic with DD and DTS processed by the Yamaha vs PS3.

from what i understand, if your sending the digital DD or DTS signal as pcm your getting some conversion of the data correct? this would be why there is a difference in sound, as opposed to sending the pure digital signal straight to the receiver.........

Sure enough! The audio does seem more dynamic when processed by the Yamaha. The audio seems much more dynamic. There is a vast difference in volume level (which probably contributes to the perceptive difference), but it really does seem to be more dynamic with DD and DTS processed by the Yamaha vs PS3.

Interesting, I wonder if the new Yamaha's have this same problem. There's no reason they can't do the same processing on PCM.

One note, forget volume level. It's not unusual for that to vary depending on the source or format. When comparing, try to adjust to the same volume level in the mid range and then compare the quality of the sound.

When comparing, try to adjust to the same volume level in the mid range and then compare the quality of the sound.
I am sorry if I wasn't clear in my post. Bitstream seems to be more dynamic after level matching.

I am powering the surround speakers via the Yamaha and the front stage with an external amp, so I doubt I'm running out of headroom when level matching.

I can't explain why, but Bitstream seems to be the preferred choice [for me at least].

wow.
Depending on which Thread I look at.. it's either bitstream is better or Linear PCM.

Can anyone give me the best answer?

I have a PS3. I use it for mostly regular DVD's...and right now just a few Blu-Ray titles.
I have a Denon AVR-4800 receiver. (It's about 7 or 8 years old now)
It doesn't have HDMI, so I have the audio hooked up via Optical wire.

Which should I have my settings at? Linear PCM or bitstream?

Bitstream for optical.

I am sorry if I wasn't clear in my post. Bitstream seems to be more dynamic after level matching.

I am powering the surround speakers via the Yamaha and the front stage with an external amp, so I doubt I'm running out of headroom when level matching.

I can't explain why, but Bitstream seems to be the preferred choice [for me at least].

Yeah, definitely seems like your receiver does more with bitstream than with PCM. You might want to dig in the Receiver forum to see if there's any detailed info on what your receiver does or doesn't do to confirm what you are hearing (or to find out if there's anything you can adjust).

I agree with you. I have a Yamaha HTR-6090 and the sound seems fuller and richer when I send it bitstream to the receiver instead of PCM. It logically doesn't make sense, but it is a noticeable difference.

interesting. i also have htr-6090 and the sound seems to be clearer and louder when i use LPCM with PS3 instead of bitstream. this is when playing DTS-ES movie

PCM. There is simply no advantage to having an AVR decode over the player.

Sure there is. Some better receivers may simply do a better job of it. I have the new Denon 4308CI and I believe it handles the decoding better than the PS3. In addition - I know what I'm getting. If I choose Dolby True HD in the disc menu the receiver confirms it. I also have the ability to take 5.1 to 7.1 when receiving Bitstream but not LPCM. I believe that when one has an advanced HDMI 1.3 receiver such as the Denon, higher end Onkyos etc that Bitstream is the way to go.

Sure there is. Some better receivers may simply do a better job of it. I have the new Denon 4308CI and I believe it handles the decoding better than the PS3.

If I may ask, what makes you believe the Denon does a better job decoding than the PS3?

If I may ask, what makes you believe the Denon does a better job decoding than the PS3?
A lot of people think this. But in most cases the difference is in the AVR not adding it's own BM or coloration (gain on Bass and Treble) to a PCM source coming in. If the AVR does the decoding, it can then add it's own BM, and coloration. Some people mistake this to be "better decoding by the AVR" because it's sounds "better" to them.

Just purchased a PS3 and have it hooked up to a Yamaha V661 receiver w/ 5.1 channel speakers. I currently have my audio setting to Bitstream and I notice that it displays Dolby Digital or DTS on my front panel display. Also when using the Blu-Ray remote if I hit display when watching a movie it shows the sound settings as well. You mentioned that you can toggle audio midstream-how do you do this?

I connected my PS3 to my Onkyo 905 last night via HDMI, and I could not find bitstream as an audio output option??? Is bitstream only available via toslink out?

Edit: disregard. I found the option in the manual under BD/DVD settings, and not under audio settings.

You mentioned that you can toggle audio midstream-how do you do this?Hit triangle and select A/V settings.

If I may ask, what makes you believe the Denon does a better job decoding than the PS3?

My ears primarily.

My ears primarily.


I disagree. Not with your ears, but with your comment about the receiver decoding better, until we know more about the codecs in each and how they differ if they do in terms of processing.

I have the PS3 and Denon 4308 as well. I have played with it both ways for DD and DTS and have SACD's etc. There is NO detectable difference. I use my kids and friends as guinea pigs to test this stuff as I feel it may remove any bias as well as anyone under the age of 18 hears better than we do and that is a fact. Since we can't really test HD audio as the PS3 only does PCM there is no way to tell the difference there, but there still shouldn't be any difference.

My ears primarily.

Since the PS3 is unable at the moment to bitstream True HD, how can you compare the PS3 decoding True HD vs. your receiver?

I just picked up Ratatouille on Blu-ray and notice on the back audio section that this film can out 5.1 Dolby Digital and 5.1 Uncompressed 48bit/24 sound. How can I decode that on my receiver. I use Bitstream and have my PS3 hooked up via HDMI to my receiver. My receiver has these capabilities.
Thanks

I just picked up Ratatouille on Blu-ray and notice on the back audio section that this film can out 5.1 Dolby Digital and 5.1 Uncompressed 48bit/24 sound. How can I decode that on my receiver. I use Bitstream and have my PS3 hooked up via HDMI to my receiver. My receiver has these capabilities.
Thanks

It's one or the other. Uncompressed doesnt need decoding by the AVR. You choose it from either the audio option on the BD or press triangle during playback and choose PCM track.

I am sorry if I wasn't clear in my post. Bitstream seems to be more dynamic after level matching.

I am powering the surround speakers via the Yamaha and the front stage with an external amp, so I doubt I'm running out of headroom when level matching.

I can't explain why, but Bitstream seems to be the preferred choice [for me at least].
This is the same thing I am experiencing. I can hear that the pcm maybe could sound better, but it is unbalanced, and the bass is lacking.

This is the same thing I am experiencing. I can hear that the pcm maybe could sound better, but it is unbalanced, and the bass is lacking.

CLASSIC example of the AVR not adding it's own "coloration" to the PCM signal.

This is the same thing I am experiencing. I can hear that the pcm maybe could sound better, but it is unbalanced, and the bass is lacking.
One hypothesis I plan to explore:

The Yamaha RX-V1600 has two bass management memories AFAIK. One global memory, and a seperate one for the multi-channel analog input. I'm wondering if the multi-channel analog memory also applies to multi-channel PCM via HDMI. Or, if there is a third memory for multi-channel PCM via HDMI. Time to dust the SPL meter out and do some testing. I'll report back once I get the chance to test.

CLASSIC example of the AVR not adding it's own "coloration" to the PCM signal.
Does your reply mean you think everything is working properly?

I just picked up Ratatouille on Blu-ray and notice on the back audio section that this film can out 5.1 Dolby Digital and 5.1 Uncompressed 48bit/24 sound. How can I decode that on my receiver. I use Bitstream and have my PS3 hooked up via HDMI to my receiver. My receiver has these capabilities.
Thanks

Set the HDMI audio out setting to PCM, not bitstream. The PS3 will then send the uncompressed 5.1 PCM to your receiver via HDMI.

Set the HDMI audio out setting to PCM, not bitstream. The PS3 will then send the uncompressed 5.1 PCM to your receiver via HDMI.

The PS3 will still send the uncompressed PCM in Bitstream mode as well. The only thing Bitstream will not send currently is Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio.

The PS3 will still send the uncompressed PCM in Bitstream mode as well. The only thing Bitstream will not send currently is Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio.

Only in 2.1 and not true 5.1.

Only in 2.1 and not true 5.1.

If you are using Optical out, then yes. My post is correct if you are using HDMI out.

Let me make a chart for the lossless audio sources.

BITSTREAM MODE (HDMI OUT)
--------------------------------

5.1 LPCM passed to AV receiver untouched for DAC = YES

5.1 Dolby TrueHD passed to AV receiver untouched for decoding & DAC = NO

5.1 DTS-HD Master Audio passed to AV receiver untouched for decoding & DAC= NO



LPCM MODE (HDMI OUT)
--------------------------

5.1 LPCM passed to AV receiver untouched for DAC = YES

5.1 Dolby TrueHD decoded & passed to AV receiver for DAC = YES

5.1 DTS-HD Master Audio decoded & passed to AV receiver for DAC = NO


EDIT: DAC = Digital to Analog Conversion

EDIT2: Most of us are hoping Sony will release a firmware to change all the NO answers to YES answers.

^^The debate continues though which is actually better. I had no idea the PS3 passed 5.1 DD trueHD by Bitstream. I just run it all LPCM over HDMI. My Denon 4308 receiver doesn't show DD True HD since I am doing PCM, but it sure sound way better and the bit rate is where it should be.

^^The debate continues though which is actually better. I had no idea the PS3 passed 5.1 DD trueHD by Bitstream. I just run it all LPCM over HDMI. My Denon 4308 receiver doesn't show DD True HD since I am doing PCM, but it sure sound way better and the bit rate is where it should be.

The PS3 does not "pass" Dolby TrueHD via Bitstream for your AV receiver to decode and then convert to analog. Hopefully it will in the future.

When the PS3 is in LPCM mode, the PS3 first "decodes" Dolby TrueHD and *then* passes the resulting LPCM to your AV receiver to be changed to analog for your speakers.

Let me make a chart for the lossless audio sources.

BITSTREAM MODE (HDMI OUT)
--------------------------------

5.1 LPCM passed to AV receiver untouched for DAC = YES

5.1 Dolby TrueHD passed to AV receiver untouched for decoding & DAC = NO

5.1 DTS-HD Master Audio passed to AV receiver untouched for decoding & DAC= NO



LPCM MODE (HDMI OUT)
--------------------------

5.1 LPCM passed to AV receiver untouched for DAC = YES

5.1 Dolby TrueHD decoded & passed to AV receiver for DAC = YES

5.1 DTS-HD Master Audio decoded & passed to AV receiver for DAC = NO


EDIT: DAC = Digital to Analog Conversion

EDIT2: Most of us are hoping Sony will release a firmware to change all the NO answers to YES answers.

This should be put somewhere for all to see, it would save a lot of questions that pop up everyday about what to set the PS3 to

For BluRay movies if I select LPCM on my PS3 via HDMI what should these setting be on the Onkyo TX-SR674 sub-menu with a 7.1 configuration to get the best sound including the subwoofer?

I have the following categories & choices.

Ana/PCM - Direct, Stereo, Mono, PL IIx movie-game-music & so on through all the DTS stuff

MCH PCM - Direct & Multich

MCH Ana - Direct & Multich

PCM192k - Direct & Stereo

For people who have 5.1 receivers with no HDMI, do you keep your PS3 set to Bitstream or LPCM? I have PLII on my receiver, so I think that the uncompressed tracks sound better in fake surround than the DD track, even if I am sacrificing some specificity in the sound field. But I don't know if it makes any difference whether I have the PS3 set to Bitstream or LPCM so I've been switching back and forth depending on whether I listen to a DD track or an uncompressed track. What settings do y'all use? Does it make any difference?

For people who have 5.1 receivers with no HDMI, do you keep your PS3 set to Bitstream or LPCM? I have PLII on my receiver, so I think that the uncompressed tracks sound better in fake surround than the DD track, even if I am sacrificing some specificity in the sound field. But I don't know if it makes any difference whether I have the PS3 set to Bitstream or LPCM so I've been switching back and forth depending on whether I listen to a DD track or an uncompressed track. What settings do y'all use? Does it make any difference?

I just got an 80 GB PS3 and am in a similar situation (my AVR is non-HDMI and supports DD and DTS over optical). I did some A/B comparisons with 2 films (Casino Royale - 5.1 PCM) and (Die Hard 4 - DTS MA). I found the following:

1. For Casino Royale, I prefered the 5.1 PCM track down-converted to 2 channel PCM w. Dolby Pro Logic applied. I found that the increased dynamic range and overall sound quality overcame the benefit of having more discrete channel separation via DD 5.1.

2. Die Hard 4's DTS MA soundtrack includes a 1.5 Mps 5.1 "Core" track that can be passed over optical. I found this to provide excellent dynamic range and overall quality.

So my conclusion is that for Dolby TrueHD and PCM tracks, I will have the PS3 downrez to 2 channel LPCM. For movies containing DTS MA (Fox, NewLine), I will switch over to Bitstream output.

I think alot of this will come down to personal taste. Many on this forum argue that 640 kps Dolby Digital (included on most every BR disc) is more than good enough to their ears.

I just got an 80 GB PS3 and am in a similar situation (my AVR is non-HDMI and supports DD and DTS over optical). I did some A/B comparisons with 2 films (Casino Royale - 5.1 PCM) and (Die Hard 4 - DTS MA). I found the following:

1. For Casino Royale, I prefered the 5.1 PCM track down-converted to 2 channel PCM w. Dolby Pro Logic applied. I found that the increased dynamic range and overall sound quality overcame the benefit of having more discrete channel separation via DD 5.1.

2. Die Hard 4's DTS MA soundtrack includes a 1.5 Mps 5.1 "Core" track that can be passed over optical. I found this to provide excellent dynamic range and overall quality.

So my conclusion is that for Dolby TrueHD and PCM tracks, I will have the PS3 downrez to 2 channel LPCM. For movies containing DTS MA (Fox, NewLine), I will switch over to Bitstream output.

I think alot of this will come down to personal taste. Many on this forum argue that 640 kps Dolby Digital (included on most every BR disc) is more than good enough to their ears.
Good post, thanks for the input!

hey guys, a question here...

with linear pcm, if the signal on the disc is 5.1, and my receiver is 7.1, I've noticed my two rear speakers aren't being used, and my receiver(onkyo 605) doesn't give me any options to change that. With bitstream, I get the icon(dts in this case), and I can then use neo:6 to matrix it to 7...

does this sound right? Should the linear pcm signal be 7 channels if it's only a 5.1 on the disc, or is there a way to get it to?

hey guys, a question here...

with linear pcm, if the signal on the disc is 5.1, and my receiver is 7.1, I've noticed my two rear speakers aren't being used, and my receiver(onkyo 605) doesn't give me any options to change that. With bitstream, I get the icon(dts in this case), and I can then use neo:6 to matrix it to 7...

does this sound right? Should the linear pcm signal be 7 channels if it's only a 5.1 on the disc, or is there a way to get it to?The issue's with the 605. It can't matrix LPCM.

I think alot of this will come down to personal taste. Many on this forum argue that 640 kps Dolby Digital (included on most every BR disc) is more than good enough to their ears.

I dont know about that. Maybe to those who havent heard an uncompressed HD track. DD 640 may very well be good enough. But once you have heard the two back to back..there is no comparison. I compared the 640 DD to Dolby True HD track on Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds last night. Night and day difference.

Bitstream versus Linear PCM
The PS3 provides options for either "Bitstream" or "Linear PCM" when outputing the audio signal. This option is located in the "Settings->BD/DVD Settings->BD/DVD Audio Output Format(HDMI)" and "Settings->BD/DVD Settings->BD Audio Output Format (Optical)" settings of your XMB. Linear PCM is audio data that is not encoded (nor compressed) and is in it's pure digital form, ready for conversion into analog for the speakers. A regular CD stores all its songs in Linear PCM form. Most audio starting with the DVD store digital data encoded and compressed (like Dolby Digital or DTS Digital Surround). If "Bitstream" option is selected, the PS3 will take this undecoded and uncompressed audio and send it untouched to the HDMI or TOSLINK cable for your external decoder to decode. In other words, the receiver at the other end of the HDMI or TOSLINK must have special chips that can decode and uncompress formats like Dolby Digital and DTS Digital Surround, and then convert the resultant Linear PCM to analog (via a DAC) for the speakers connected to the external decoder. If "Linear PCM" option is selected, the PS3 will actually decode the audio into Linear PCM first, before sending it to the HDMI or TOSLINK. In this case the receiver on the other end of the HDMI or TOSLINK only needs to convert the Linear PCM to analog for the speakers connected to it. Because of the current bandwidth limitations of TOSLINK, choosing Linear PCM (the decoded and uncompressed signal) on this connection limits you to only two channels of audio. For multichannel (like 5.1) over TOSLINK, you must use "bitstream", which uses smaller bandwidth of compressed and encoded data.

Bitstream versus Linear PCM
The PS3 provides options for either "Bitstream" or "Linear PCM" when outputing the audio signal. edited

You do know that everything you just posted has already been said in this thread??

No I Didnt, I dont have time to read through 70 threads. I just post facts so people can learn from them.

Bitstream versus Linear PCMIt's also considered "good form" to give credit to the sites you quote from:
http://www.edepot.com/playstation3.html

Particularly when that particular site has its own very recent and still active thread here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=988840

Even more so when the author him/herself has started a thread for that page:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=938295

No I Didnt, I dont have time to read through 70 threads. I just post facts so people can learn from them.

And thus we end up with more threads of repeated information that no one wants to bother to read through.

No I Didnt, I dont have time to read through 70 threads. I just post facts so people can learn from them.
Thats funny..you didnt take or have time to read though 76 posts..but you expect other people to read to post 76 (yours) and get the "facts"

no, i scroll right to the bottom. and yes it was from the PS3 secrets site. I still think you guys are getting to hardcore for no reason. Just trying to give out some info.

no, i scroll right to the bottom. and yes it was from the PS3 secrets site. I still think you guys are getting to hardcore for no reason. Just trying to give out some info.

Isn't kind of like walking into the last few minutes of auto shop class at the end of the semester; walking to the front of the room and having everyone stop what they're doing in order to let everyone know cars have 4 wheels, are controlled with the steering wheel and run on gasoline?

what a comedian.

I just noticed the HDMI LPCM output on the PS3 is lacking (bass, dynamics and loudnes). Further testing revealed that Star Wars Episode III sounded lifeless IN DIRECT COMPARISON to LPCM output from Toshiba HD-A2 and to Pioneer DV46AV DVD player via 7.1 analog inputs. The bitsream output seems more comparable to the other two players.

Clearly this is a PS3 issue and some other forum members have come to the same conclusion. Either there is a design flaw in the way the PS3 handles LPCM or there are a few PS3s out there that are defective.

Have you tried turning dynamic range control off on the PS3?

I just noticed the HDMI LPCM output on the PS3 is lacking (bass, dynamics and loudnes). Further testing revealed that Star Wars Episode III sounded lifeless IN DIRECT COMPARISON to LPCM output from Toshiba HD-A2 and to Pioneer DV46AV DVD player via 7.1 analog inputs. The bitsream output seems more comparable to the other two players.

Clearly this is a PS3 issue and some other forum members have come to the same conclusion. Either there is a design flaw in the way the PS3 handles LPCM or there are a few PS3s out there that are defective.

Except that people have tested the LFE output of the PS3 and it is correct. Since it's tough for me to believe that anything defective could just cause the LFE to be off (given that it's a digital output), then it must be some setting causing it.

I just noticed the HDMI LPCM output on the PS3 is lacking (bass, dynamics and loudnes). Further testing revealed that Star Wars Episode III sounded lifeless IN DIRECT COMPARISON to LPCM output from Toshiba HD-A2 and to Pioneer DV46AV DVD player via 7.1 analog inputs. The bitsream output seems more comparable to the other two players.

Clearly this is a PS3 issue and some other forum members have come to the same conclusion. Either there is a design flaw in the way the PS3 handles LPCM or there are a few PS3s out there that are defective.

You call that a direct comparision?? Last I checked the PS3 didnt have analog outs...at least not 8 of them So you compared HDMI out of the PS3 to Analog out of an A2. What you found was that the Analog sounded better right. Well to me you just found out that your AVR doesnt process HDMI LPCM very well, and doesn't do BM (bass management) on an LPCM signal via HDMI. MANY AVRs have that problem.

By comparing the PS3 HDMI vs Analog out of the A2. You COMPLETELY removed the AVR'S DAC from the equation. All your AVR had to do with the A2 feed is send that signal STRAIGHT to the amp sections for amplification, and then on to the speakers. From the PS3 the AVR has to send that Digital signal to the DAC (7-9 Meg per second of information) then to the Amp section and then to the speaker. A Cheap DAC chip in the AVR could be the source of the problem, as well as the inability to do BM via HDMI.
I personally dont think you found a thing wrong with the PS3. You found something wrong with your AVR.

Ok, I'm guessing my receiver just can't handle bitstream from my ps3. But, the problem I have is that if I select the audio output as bitstream as opposed to LPCM, the audio cuts out on my receiver. Unfortunately, this is the only way I can get DD/DTS to actually play when I'm playing Blu-ray movies. I have yet to find any info regarding my problem with bitstream so if anyone can help or has the same problem, please let me know.

I'm guessing a receiver upgrade is in the near future so if anyone has some suggestions regarding a compatible receiver for true DD/DTS with my ps3 let me know. Thanks!

Ok, I'm guessing my receiver just can't handle bitstream from my ps3. But, the problem I have is that if I select the audio output as bitstream as opposed to LPCM, the audio cuts out on my receiver. Unfortunately, this is the only way I can get DD/DTS to actually play when I'm playing Blu-ray movies. I have yet to find any info regarding my problem with bitstream so if anyone can help or has the same problem, please let me know.It might help to know what receiver you're using and how it's connected. It sounds like you already recognize the problem, though.

When you send the receiver LPCM, the PS3's already done the work of processing the initial audio signal. When you send it bitstream, your receiver has to do all the initial processing work. Your receiver probably just can't handle whatever audio format is being sent to it.

I'm guessing you're connected via optical. If that's the case, the LPCM you're sending your receiver is going to be a bit limited format-wise (2-channel). Your initial hunch that you're due for a receiver upgrade may be right.

hi i have the same problem as the folks with the yamahas, except i have my ps3 hooked up via hdmi to an onkyo tx-sr705. i just got the 40gb ps3 and included with it was the blu-ray version of spiderman 3. after getting the latest firmware update, i got down to business and looked to play spiderman 3. when i select LPCM on the audio out, the sound is MUCH lower and less dynamic than when i select bitstream. this is really odd to me since i can see that the outputted audio holds significantly less data in bitstream format (640k/s) than LPCM (~3.0MB/s) - if you press Select on the ps3 controller while playing a movie, it shows you the data.
i reckon i did something wrong with the settings on either the ps3 or my receiver (or both!), but can't figure out what. all i know is that the sound is significantly reduced. just to give you all a sense, i played most movies (on my old dvd player) at -30db and was fine with this level when playing spidey 3 on bitstream with the ps3. when i dynamically switch to LPCM, i need to turn the volume on my receiver up to -16db to get the same sound levels. even then, it doesn't appear to sound any more dynamic. any help or insights would be appreciated!!

did you change the audio setting in the ps3 settings? should be under display, first you select hdmi and then select automaticly detect and then confirm. next do the same for the audio select hdmi and then auto select and then confirm. another way to check to see if the blu ray movie is playing lpcm is while playing the movie hit the triangle button and look for the setting button next to the volume button it should say something like A/V settings (hit x button on it to select it) and at the bottom of the list it will say something like sound output and you can select bitstream or lpcm, make sure it says lpcm and hit triangle again to exit. trust me you will know when you have the lossless working properly. hopefully this solves the problem and helps. let me know if this worked. good luck

hi i have the same problem as the folks with the yamahas, except i have my ps3 hooked up via hdmi to an onkyo tx-sr705.AFAIK, this is a common issue with LPCM, not necessarily specific to PS3. You should be able to find quite a bit of documentation through a forum search. For example:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10864480
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12130013
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12596820

You'll find a bunch more floating around, especially in the blu-ray forums. Hope that helps.

thank you both for the replies. based on confidenceman's suggestion, i'm beginning to realize that there are sound level differences in the output for LPCM and Bitstream, but primairly only for TRUE HD blu-ray discs. I'll have to test this out by purchasing different BDs to see if I get the same results as other posters.

In any case, thanks for the help and I think this should be noted in the thread prominently somewhere that loudness can significantly decrease when outputting LPCM from the PS3 to one's receiver and that this is normal and not a function of one's equipment, but of the source input and/or track.

I have a question with regards to PCM vs Bitstream. My receiver can only do 2 channels of PCM (even over HDMI) and I recently found out that the movie SWAT has a 5.1 PCM track and no legacy tracks like DD or DTS. My question is how would I set up my PS3 to get some form of 5.1 sound out of it going into my receiver? Would I simply changing the audio output on the PS3 to bitstream or pcm remedy this?

LOL, I would simply wait a few months until they come out with a receiver that you can hook up your BR and other components to and get all the sounds you need. It will not be long until they have a receiver and speakers that will decode everything and you will not have to waste your money for early technology. People are spending lots of money on receivers right now and within a year there will be a receiver with speakers all in one that will play everything.
Just my opinion

@katuehlvr1: The Denon 4308CI decodes damn near everything :)

I just wanted to put in this link to a really good explanation of the differences between LPCM & BitStream.

whatsonhdtv.blogspot.com/2006/07/hd-dvd-vs-blu-ray-pt-v.html

(I'm not allowed to post links yet)

@katuehlvr1: The Denon 4308CI decodes damn near everything :)

I just wanted to put in this link to a really good explanation of the differences between LPCM & BitStream.

whatsonhdtv.blogspot.com/2006/07/hd-dvd-vs-blu-ray-pt-v.html

(I'm not allowed to post links yet)

That link didn't work for me! This is a great site though, Playstation 3 Secrets on edepot.com

http://www.edepot.com/playstation3.html#PS3_Audio

Um, yeah there is. I dont know about all receivers, but my Yamaha RX-V2700 has a significantly different level when listening to DD/DTS through Bitstream (letting AVR decode) as opposed to PCM (letting PS3 decode and send to receiver). Overall the soundfield is noticeably better if I let the AVR do the decoding.

I switch back and forth depending on the audio track of the particular movie Im watching....but at least thats a nice feature of the PS3, you can change bitstream/PCM on the fly. My HD-A2 you have to stop the movie and go to the setup menu. Bah

I totally agree. I used to just keep my PS3 set to linear pcm and just run with that for both dvds and BRs and tonight I was reading this thread and decided to try out bitstream. All I can say is for three months since I've had my Onkyo 705 I've been cutting my audio quality for DVDs far short. I couldn't believe how much louder and with more bass the DVD had. I kept pausing a scene with an explosion and kept switching back and forth and noticed a huge difference. Which now leaves me wondering.
How much better bitstream for Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA would sound?

I have my PS3 set to bitstream, mainly because my reciever doesn't support multichannel Linear PCM. If I have it set to Linear PCM, it only outputs Dolby Prologic II. I set it to bitstream, it outputs DTS and sounds great for BD movies. :)

We'll never know since the ps3 wont bitstream dolby tru hd or dts-hd. Hell it wont even send dts hd over pcm.

If we dont get a patch soon to decode dts hd ma, I'm going to buy a new bd player.

We'll never know since the ps3 wont bitstream dolby tru hd or dts-hd. Hell it wont even send dts hd over pcm.

If we dont get a patch soon to decode dts hd ma, I'm going to buy a new bd player.

Have you been hiding in a cave? The ps3 patch to do DTS-HD MA to PCM will be available Tuesday morning at 3am Eastern Standard Time. It has been all over these forums for days now.

*steps out of cave*

OMG... I'm ecstatic. seriously. I can now buy fox movies.

*steps out of cave*

OMG... I'm ecstatic. seriously. I can now buy fox movies.

Better wear sun glasses for the first few days to let your eyes adjust to the daylight! Same here, I am filling my queue up with some DTS Lossless titles. I have I-Robot sitting on the shelf waiting to be the first one!

I'm going to buy Live free or die hard tonight. Explosions galore.

I can think of some better movies with explosions if you're actually gonna BUY the movie. lol. "it's got explosions"



--V for Vendetta.

I'm welcome to suggestions

Flight of the phoenix(one of my 5 freebies), the plane crash scene with the DTS Core was phenomenal. Look forward to checking it out with the lossless track.

I'm anxious to check out Pan's Labyrinth and a few other movies (mainly from Fox). I'd like to hear the plane going down in Cast Away as well.

-Brad

I picked up U571 from amazon.uk last year. It's DTS-HD MA so I'm dying to hear this one.

Well, if you're looking for something now on the shelves, Ratatouille is not only a great movie that looks amazing, but the soundtrack (as with all Pixar movies) is really top notch. It's a triple A blu-ray disc. In May, be sure to get V for Vendetta.

Well, if you're looking for something now on the shelves, Ratatouille is not only a great movie that looks amazing, but the soundtrack (as with all Pixar movies) is really top notch. It's a triple A blu-ray disc. In May, be sure to get V for Vendetta.

None of these are DTS-Master, we have been able to hear these already in all of their glory. The fox movies have been limited to DTS-Core for us PS3 owners.

Sunshine, with the DTS core, is probably the best my system has ever sounded. It's probably pretty rockin with the HD MA track.

The title says it all..
What exactly is the difference between Bitstream vs. Linear PCM?

Your question is not phrased correctly and has a certain degree of ambiguity.

In order to substantively answer the question, it needs to be broken into two parts:

1. "What exactly is the difference between Lossless Bitstream and Linear PCM" ?

2. "What exactly is the difference between Lossless Bitstream and Lossy Bitstream?"

Answer to #1: Lossless Bitstream is a compressed version of the original audio file. This is very similar in concept to FLAC or AAC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_file_format#Lossless_audio_formats) as related to the original WAV file. Naturally, it takes up less space than the original but retains the original data.

Linear PCM is the the uncompressed (lossless). It MAY OR MAY NOT be the original signal. Say, the original signal is 48KHz / 24-bit in resolution. Studios will use this original signal to create the lossless bitstream (like TrueHD or DTS-HD). But, then, often the studios will take a lower version of the signal (say, 48KHz / 16-bit) for the Linear PCM stream. Which according to me is a cop out ! Why ? Because, in such cases, the bitstream is superior to the LPCM (assuming, you have a way to transcode / decode it). The reason studios resort to this is because of disk space (48/16 LPCM needs less space than 48/24 LPCM)

Answer to #2: Thats pretty obvious ... its like between a JPG (lossy) and a compressed TIFF (lossless) image file. They both have to be decoded (uncompressed) but the TIFF is superior (but takes up more space than JPG).

But, on a slightly unrelated note, a TrueHD or a DTS-MA or a uncompressed PCM track is no guarantee of superior quality. For all you know, the original soundtrack was so mediocre that it probably did not deserve that kind of a treatment. Most folks tend to jump on the TrueHD or DTS-MA bandwagon without realizing this shrewd marketing scheme.

I'm anxious to check out Pan's Labyrinth and a few other movies (mainly from Fox). I'd like to hear the plane going down in Cast Away as well.

-Brad

I have Pan's Labyrinth in my Netflix queue, should be here tomorrow, DTS-MA 7.1 played on a 7.1 system :eek::D

it's funny how we're all so anxious to hear generally AWFUL sounds, including: screams, crashes, explosions, screeches, things collapsing, etc.

only in our worlds.

james

I have been wishing for years for one of those IMAX seats that you strap in to, and it moves all around with the movie and shakes and stuff.


In about 20 years we will be laughing at a 7.1 system. When it becomes a 20.5 system.

I'm welcome to suggestions

HITMAN..... :D

I'm totally confused by the Bitstream vs Linear PCM debate.

I have a Pioneer VSX-D811S that only accepts Optical and no HDMI.

With the new audio upgrades to the PS3, am i better off choosing Bitsream? I noticed when i select PCM, the receiver no longer shows the "DTS" logo on the unit on a movie like Hitman. But does that mean that the PS3 is doing all the work and the receiver is just "passing" the signal the PS3 produces to the speakers?

I did a comparison and all i can tell is that the PCM signal is 2 db quieter and i cannot really tell if the sound is any different.

Is sending a PCM signal just a waste as my receiver doesn't support it and therefore i'm not even getting standard dobly or DTS?

Any help is appreciated guys. Everytime i think i understand it, the next post seems to confuse me more.:confused::confused:

I'm totally confused by the Bitstream vs Linear PCM debate.

I have a Pioneer VSX-D811S that only accepts Optical and no HDMI.

With the new audio upgrades to the PS3, am i better off choosing Bitsream? I noticed when i select PCM, the receiver no longer shows the "DTS" logo on the unit on a movie like Hitman. But does that mean that the PS3 is doing all the work and the receiver is just "passing" the signal the PS3 produces to the speakers?

I did a comparison and all i can tell is that the PCM signal is 2 db quieter and i cannot really tell if the sound is any different.

Is sending a PCM signal just a waste as my receiver doesn't support it and therefore i'm not even getting standard dobly or DTS?

Any help is appreciated guys. Everytime i think i understand it, the next post seems to confuse me more.:confused::confused:

Optical connection won't change any, so you won't be able to differentiate between the new update for DTS-HD-MA. HDMI is a requirement for any of the lossless audio.

Bitstream would be ideal for optical connection, but your still getting the dts-core and the DD/DD+ which are all lossy audio formats.

Sorry, but you'll have to upgrade your AVR to enjoy the lossless goodness.

-Splints

i've been sifting through all this info about what you can and cannot do over optical audio lines from a PS3 to a receiver, and i've been thoroughly confused.

some posts led me to believe that by turning off all but LPCM it would force the PS3 decoded DTS HD MA audio track through the optical line, so i went out and bought reservoir dogs (DTS HD MA 6.1), and, low and behold, it worked perfectly.

i have an Onkyo TX-SR575 (7.1, 2x HDMI passthrough) so i didnt have the option of using the HDMI for audio. seems like alot of people have either this, the 605, or 705 from Onkyo, so all of you guys who are unsure, it does work.

i'll be buying The Usual Suspects probably tomorrow to see if i can get this done in 7.1.

i've been sifting through all this info about what you can and cannot do over optical audio lines from a PS3 to a receiver, and i've been thoroughly confused.

some posts led me to believe that by turning off all but LPCM it would force the PS3 decoded DTS HD MA audio track through the optical line, so i went out and bought reservoir dogs (DTS HD MA 6.1), and, low and behold, it worked perfectly.

i have an Onkyo TX-SR575 (7.1, 2x HDMI passthrough) so i didnt have the option of using the HDMI for audio. seems like alot of people have either this, the 605, or 705 from Onkyo, so all of you guys who are unsure, it does work.

i'll be buying The Usual Suspects probably tomorrow to see if i can get this done in 7.1.

Are you trying to say your getting DTS-HD MA through optical connection? :confused:
I don't believe that's possible.

Are you trying to say your getting DTS-HD MA through optical connection? :confused:
I don't believe that's possible.It isn't. He's not getting what he thinks he is.

It probably just said DTS, not DTS-MA or DTS-HD or wahtever it's supposed to say.

But guys... what if it is possible?

I was under the impression that this was an inherent hardware limitation of some sort so that no amount of firmware could change that. But, by all means, folks, try it and make sure.

since no one has answered the question which is better bit stream or PCM, i will answer it for anyone that wants to know. pcm is better , it is loss less audio and it's the way the original is supposed to sound. typically DD double digital which is sent bit stream is around 600 kb and pcm loss less is usually sent around 5.0+ mbs . the pcm track will be much clearer and more i guess defined when compared to double digital, but you must have a receiver that excepts pcm audio like my onkyo tx-sr604. you can clearly hear a difference between DD vs PCM and pcm is better. hope this helps

:confused:So would my onkyo tx-674 receiver excepts pcm audio?
Sure hope so.
Thanks
Don

"accept", and yes.

I was under the impression that this was an inherent hardware limitation of some sort so that no amount of firmware could change that. But, by all means, folks, try it and make sure.

Optical is obviously capable of sending such a large amount of information, but the PS3 is probably designed so that optical cannot be used by the system to send anything over the 1.5 Mbps DTS, or something around that (which is probably what you were getting at). I assume that whatever general specs are used for optical in DVD players, receivers, etc., is all standardized so that a lossless signal cannot be sent through optical, despite the lack of physical limitations. I suppose they do this ostensibly for copy protection but in reality it must be to sell more receivers.

The PS3 won't bitstream lossless soundtracks anyway. So you can't do a comparison.

Optical is obviously capable of sending such a large amount of information, but the PS3 is probably designed so that optical cannot be used by the system to send anything over the 1.5 Mbps DTS, or something around that (which is probably what you were getting at). I assume that whatever general specs are used for optical in DVD players, receivers, etc., is all standardized so that a lossless signal cannot be sent through optical, despite the lack of physical limitations. I suppose they do this ostensibly for copy protection but in reality it must be to sell more receivers.

Yes, there is a standard that everything with the optical/coax digital connection must meet. That standard does not include any of the lossless codecs and it only allows 2 channels of PCM. If you use the optical (or coax) connection and send bitstream, you can only get the standard lossy codecs. If you have the player decode (or have native PCM) then only 2 channels are being sent, no matter what the original format being decoded is.

Anyone have a PS3, the Denon 2808, and the BD Movie Rush Hour 3? I ask since it says 7.1 DT-MA and it 'shows' as being that when playing it however on the Denon it only shows it as 5.1 coming through. The strange part is the studio intro at the beginning of the disc and all extras in 7.1 PLAY as 7.1 on my receiver - it's just the 'movie'. I played with every setting on the PS3 and Denon but nothing changed - anyone else?

Anyone have a PS3, the Denon 2808, and the BD Movie Rush Hour 3? I ask since it says 7.1 DT-MA and it 'shows' as being that when playing it however on the Denon it only shows it as 5.1 coming through. The strange part is the studio intro at the beginning of the disc and all extras in 7.1 PLAY as 7.1 on my receiver - it's just the 'movie'. I played with every setting on the PS3 and Denon but nothing changed - anyone else?
Read through this thread...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1017825

Anyone have a PS3, the Denon 2808, and the BD Movie Rush Hour 3? I ask since it says 7.1 DT-MA and it 'shows' as being that when playing it however on the Denon it only shows it as 5.1 coming through. The strange part is the studio intro at the beginning of the disc and all extras in 7.1 PLAY as 7.1 on my receiver - it's just the 'movie'. I played with every setting on the PS3 and Denon but nothing changed - anyone else?

The PS3 will not output 7.1 sound.

The PS3 will not output 7.1 sound.

Mmm- yes it does - with the firmware update it supports 7.1 if your receiver is 7.1 and you have 7.1 speakers connected.

The PS3 will not output 7.1 sound.

Yes it does, I have PS3 games that are 7.1 pcm (Resistance and Motorstorm for example), also like has been said, the New Line intro is 7.1 as well and that plays fine.

Anyone have a PS3, the Denon 2808, and the BD Movie Rush Hour 3? I ask since it says 7.1 DT-MA and it 'shows' as being that when playing it however on the Denon it only shows it as 5.1 coming through. The strange part is the studio intro at the beginning of the disc and all extras in 7.1 PLAY as 7.1 on my receiver - it's just the 'movie'. I played with every setting on the PS3 and Denon but nothing changed - anyone else?


Force 7.1 LPCM in the sound settings by UNCHECKING 5.1LPCM. You do have to remember to switch back for 5.1 movie encodes. Annoying, but it does work as reported by some members.

Optical connection won't change any, so you won't be able to differentiate between the new update for DTS-HD-MA. HDMI is a requirement for any of the lossless audio.

Bitstream would be ideal for optical connection, but your still getting the dts-core and the DD/DD+ which are all lossy audio formats.

Sorry, but you'll have to upgrade your AVR to enjoy the lossless goodness.

-Splints

Thanks for the reply Splints. You explained it perfectly. I didn't like the news, but at least now i understand.

Thanks mate!!

Can someone help me with this question. I have Harry Potter box set, and at least the Order of the Phoenix blu-ray is supposed to have uncompressed PCM that sounds pretty good. When I have bitstream setup, my receiver (Onkyo 705) shows up as dolby digital. When I set my PS3 to LPCM my receiver obviously receives multichannel PCM but when I hit select on my remote for my PS3 it tells me I am listening to Dolby Digital Multichannel 5.1 at 640kpbs and my receiver says its 48khz.

I have everything checked in my sound settings so my question is, what should uncompressed PCM show up at when I hit select on my remote. Should it say dolby digital multichannel 5.1? Or should it say Uncompressed PCM?

Sorry for all the questions, I just want the best sound possible!

Can someone help me with this question. I have Harry Potter box set, and at least the Order of the Phoenix blu-ray is supposed to have uncompressed PCM that sounds pretty good. When I have bitstream setup, my receiver (Onkyo 705) shows up as dolby digital. When I set my PS3 to LPCM my receiver obviously receives multichannel PCM but when I hit select on my remote for my PS3 it tells me I am listening to Dolby Digital Multichannel 5.1 at 640kpbs and my receiver says its 48khz.

I have everything checked in my sound settings so my question is, what should uncompressed PCM show up at when I hit select on my remote. Should it say dolby digital multichannel 5.1? Or should it say Uncompressed PCM?

Sorry for all the questions, I just want the best sound possible!

Are you connected to your 705 via HDMI or optical? You must be connected via HDMI to get the lossless tracks. Also, you may have to go into the disc's "Language" or "Audio" menu and select the PCM track. In the case of TrueHD and DTS-HD:MA you'll have to set the PS3 to LPCM, but if you're playing a PCM track, you can leave the PS3 in bitstream or put it in LPCM.

Hope that helps.

Can someone help me with this question. I have Harry Potter box set, and at least the Order of the Phoenix blu-ray is supposed to have uncompressed PCM that sounds pretty good. When I have bitstream setup, my receiver (Onkyo 705) shows up as dolby digital. When I set my PS3 to LPCM my receiver obviously receives multichannel PCM but when I hit select on my remote for my PS3 it tells me I am listening to Dolby Digital Multichannel 5.1 at 640kpbs and my receiver says its 48khz.

I have everything checked in my sound settings so my question is, what should uncompressed PCM show up at when I hit select on my remote. Should it say dolby digital multichannel 5.1? Or should it say Uncompressed PCM?

Sorry for all the questions, I just want the best sound possible!

I don't have that Blu-Ray, but it sounds like you have everything set up correctly and you just need to select the PCM track from the Blu-Ray disk's menu.

Are you connected to your 705 via HDMI or optical? You must be connected via HDMI to get the lossless tracks. Also, you may have to go into the disc's "Language" or "Audio" menu and select the PCM track. In the case of TrueHD and DTS-HD:MA you'll have to set the PS3 to LPCM, but if you're playing a PCM track, you can leave the PS3 in bitstream or put it in LPCM.

Hope that helps.

Doh, my bad. Yes I have HDMI. Thanks for the info! When I get home from work I will give it a shot! I figured when in LPCM and TrueHD, the PS3 knows to decode the TrueHD ( I hit select in the movie and it showd TrueHD without having to go into any audio submenu's) and send it but I guess thats different with uncompressed PCM. Much appreciated.

The PS3 will not output 7.1 sound.


Of course it does as long as you have it outputting via HDMI to a 7.1 reciever! I've been playing GT5: Prologue and Resistance in 7.1 LPCM on my Onkyo 805 and several Blu Rays.

I've only had problems with Pan's Labyrinth can't get the 7.1 DTS HD track to play properly.

I have a PS3 (of course) and a Denon AVR-787 reciever. The receiver doesn't have HDMI so I have the HDMI from the PS3 connected directly to the TV, and I have optical from the PS3 to the reciever. I have the PS3 the audio output for the PS3 is set to LPCM. My reciever has no problem getting this signal and spreading it to the 7.1 speakers connected to it. I dont have any BD's because i just bought the PS3 not too long ago, so naturally I watched Spiderman (as it came with it) and I chose 5.1 TrueHD from the disc. The receiver said it was getting LPCM, which is usually 2 CH ( i dont have quams about LPCM my reciver will project 7.1 and i can alwys turn it up a bit more, which by the way LPCM is a better more neater sound and it only seems like is "lower" but if you walk away to another room you will see there isn't much difference between LPCM and Bitstream). but today I was watching Planet Earth standard DVD which is only in DD, though the PS3 is on LPCM output through optical my reciever said it was getting DD at 5.1 extended.

This is where I get confused, if it at LPCM the receiver should say 2CH, and the receiver then would pass it to 7.1 but it came in full 5.1 DD.
What do any of you make of this???


Roberto :confused::cool:

If you use opticle.. you have to use bitstream. Period.

If you use opticle.. you have to use bitstream. Period.

you must read my post...

I think my receiver does a better job at decoding DD and DTS than the ps3 so I bitstream dvds, but for blu ray I obviously have to let the ps3 decode the new audio codecs, since the ps3 can't bitstream the new codecs, so I switch it to lpcm. I have an onkyo 805 btw.

I think my receiver does a better job at decoding DD and DTS than the ps3 so I bitstream dvds, but for blu ray I obviously have to let the ps3 decode the new audio codecs, since the ps3 can't bitstream the new codecs, so I switch it to lpcm. I have an onkyo 805 btw.

That is the best way to do it.

I just got the new Onkyo 606. Have the PS3 hooked up through HDMI (obviously). Everything through LPCM works as expected (the True HD and DTS MA sound great). But when I switch the HDMI output setting from LPCM to Bitstream in the PS3 sound menu and play a regular DVD, the Digital and DTS logos do not show up on the reciever. It seems like it is still jsut doing the multichannel.

I would like to use the "Late Night" function on regular dolby digital DVD disc - cannot do this with multichannel. I don't understand why switching to bitstream does not seem to work through HDMI. The reciever still says multichannel - even though I have switched it to output bitstream. Has anyone else experienced this? Can anyone with an onkyo receiver verify that they can get bitstream to work over HDMI for just normal Digital tracks?

I think my receiver does a better job at decoding DD and DTS than the ps3 so I bitstream dvds

Is the difference that noticeable? I'm buying my first receiver this weekend to stimulate the economy. I was planning on LPCM everything via HDMI.

Is the difference that noticeable? I'm buying my first receiver this weekend to stimulate the economy. I was planning on LPCM everything via HDMI.

Not really, but dts 6.1 would get pushed out as 5.1 lpcm, you're better off letting your reciever do what it's good at, and only put the ps3 in lpcm for the movies that use dolby trueHD and DTS:MA.

I just got the new Onkyo 606. Have the PS3 hooked up through HDMI (obviously). Everything through LPCM works as expected (the True HD and DTS MA sound great). But when I switch the HDMI output setting from LPCM to Bitstream in the PS3 sound menu and play a regular DVD, the Digital and DTS logos do not show up on the reciever. It seems like it is still jsut doing the multichannel.

I would like to use the "Late Night" function on regular dolby digital DVD disc - cannot do this with multichannel. I don't understand why switching to bitstream does not seem to work through HDMI. The reciever still says multichannel - even though I have switched it to output bitstream. Has anyone else experienced this? Can anyone with an onkyo receiver verify that they can get bitstream to work over HDMI for just normal Digital tracks?

I just tried it again and I was wrong, it does work with DVDs (maybe it needed to reboot or something after I had made the change to bitstream from LPCM in the menu). But I still cannot get the dolby digital track to bitstream when playing something that is streamed to the PS3 using TVersity. It seems like it still just leaves it as multichannel when using Tversity (using an Onkyo 606)? Is there anyone using TVersity that can send a bitstream over HDMI using an HDMI receiver (like onkyo 606)?

edit- I also just noticed that PS3 games no longer bitstream dolby digital using HDMI but they do when using optical (streaming videos with TVersity has the same issue). So the receiver just says Multichannel and a lot of times only outputs 2 channel (while playing mp3s over TVersity for instance) when connected via HDMI. The receiver cannot use pro logic with HDMI but can do so with optical connection, I guess this is the problem. Anyone else notice this?

I just tried it again and I was wrong, it does work with DVDs (maybe it needed to reboot or something after I had made the change to bitstream from LPCM in the menu). But I still cannot get the dolby digital track to bitstream when playing something that is streamed to the PS3 using TVersity. It seems like it still just leaves it as multichannel when using Tversity (using an Onkyo 606)? Is there anyone using TVersity that can send a bitstream over HDMI using an HDMI receiver (like onkyo 606)?

edit- I also just noticed that PS3 games no longer bitstream dolby digital using HDMI but they do when using optical (streaming videos with TVersity has the same issue). So the receiver just says Multichannel and a lot of times only outputs 2 channel (while playing mp3s over TVersity for instance) when connected via HDMI. The receiver cannot use pro logic with HDMI but can do so with optical connection, I guess this is the problem. Anyone else notice this?

Edit your audio options in your PS3 and do manual setup (HDMI) and make sure "Dolby Digital" is checked.

Is the difference that noticeable? I'm buying my first receiver this weekend to stimulate the economy. I was planning on LPCM everything via HDMI.

to me it is, but I think it will depend on the receiver whether you will notice the difference or not. I say try it and just check through the av menu in the ps3 durring playback and switch it from lpcm to bitstream when viewing DD or DTS.

Edit your audio options in your PS3 and do manual setup (HDMI) and make sure "Dolby Digital" is checked.

Yep, this is how I set it up. Dolby Digital is definitly checked (because it is working with actual DVDs) just not when streaming them with TVersity or games. Does it work for you - what reciever are you using?

ohh, with games? you wont see the icon, the ps3 will decode it, you can't bitstream games (it's not an option, you'll notice when you set it to bitstream that option is under blu-ray movies...).

It may be the same with TVersity because the ps3 is decoding the audio, i'm not familiar with it.

so now that the PS3 can decode dolby true HD and DTS HD MA is it pointless to set it to bitstream? i mean as long as the reciever can support multi channel PCM.

also. Say the PS3 could eventually send dolby true HD and DTC HD MA over bitstream and also convert it through LPCM and your reciever you are using can also do both. Is there any audio quality difference between using LPCM or bitstream out of the PS3?

Well your ps3's hardware is physically unable to bitstream HD audio, so that'll never happen.

To answer the question, it comes down to if you your receiver or the ps3 does a better job of unpacking the data from the disc. In most instances I doubt the receiver will give an audible difference. However it would be sweet to see "DTS -MA" on my onk's display :D

Well your ps3's hardware is physically unable to bitstream HD audio, so that'll never happen.

To answer the question, it comes down to if you your receiver or the ps3 does a better job of unpacking the data from the disc. In most instances I doubt the receiver will give an audible difference. However it would be sweet to see "DTS -MA" on my onk's display :D

When I bitstream dvds, there is an audible difference in that my receiver does a better job at decoding DD and DTS, so I would imagine that if it were ever possible at bitstreaming Dolby THD and DTS MA, my would receiver would do a greater job at decoding rather than the ps3. Again, I think it really comes down to what receiver you have.

If I set my PS3 to PCM, what is my receiver going to say? For instance, if I pick a DTS-HD MA track, will my receiver still say DTS, or will it say nothing with PCM over HDMI?

I have the Pioneer Elite VSX-81TXV.

If I set my PS3 to PCM, what is my receiver going to say? For instance, if I pick a DTS-HD MA track, will my receiver still say DTS, or will it say nothing with PCM over HDMI?

I have the Pioneer Elite VSX-81TXV.

Since the receiver isn't doing the decoding, it will not display what you are lilstening to, but rather just say multichannel or PCM.

Since the receiver isn't doing the decoding, it will not display what you are lilstening to, but rather just say multichannel or PCM.

Thank you

Bitstream by far displays the better audio quality. If your dvd player allows a raw signal to pass to your receiver, your receiver can decode and process it the way it is meant to be processed. The PS3 can send the raw signal to the receiver to be processed in 5.1,and 7.1 dolby digital but cannot send the raw signal to be processed in 7.1 DTS-HD. The PS3 should be able to send raw signal to process blue ray disc in 7.1 Dolby True HD.
Bottom line if you want the best quality sound, use bitstream over PCM.The PS3 blue ray player will Produce great sound when in bitstream DTS&DD 5.1, also Dolby True HD 7.1. If you want DTS-HD you must purchase a blue ray player that processes the raw data to send to receiver and/or process the DTS-HD data itself for play back.

If you want DTS-HD you must purchase a blue ray player that processes the raw data to send to receiver and/or process the DTS-HD data itself for play back.
:confused: Huh... The PS3 can already decode DTS-HD why would you need to go out and get another player when the PS3 can do this?

Bitstream by far displays the better audio quality. If your dvd player allows a raw signal to pass to your receiver, your receiver can decode and process it the way it is meant to be processed. The PS3 can send the raw signal to the receiver to be processed in 5.1,and 7.1 dolby digital but cannot send the raw signal to be processed in 7.1 DTS-HD. The PS3 should be able to send raw signal to process blue ray disc in 7.1 Dolby True HD.
Bottom line if you want the best quality sound, use bitstream over PCM.The PS3 blue ray player will Produce great sound when in bitstream DTS&DD 5.1, also Dolby True HD 7.1. If you want DTS-HD you must purchase a blue ray player that processes the raw data to send to receiver and/or process the DTS-HD data itself for play back.

The ps3 does a great job of decoding DTS-HD and converting it to multichannel PCM. The latest firmware provides this and the result is excellent. I had to re-watch all of my DTS-HD Bluray's and the sound difference is phenomenal. The debate will go on forever whether it sounds better bit streamed or decoded in the player, I have heard both and can not tell the difference.

Bitstream by far displays the better audio quality. If your dvd player allows a raw signal to pass to your receiver, your receiver can decode and process it the way it is meant to be processed. The PS3 can send the raw signal to the receiver to be processed in 5.1,and 7.1 dolby digital but cannot send the raw signal to be processed in 7.1 DTS-HD. The PS3 should be able to send raw signal to process blue ray disc in 7.1 Dolby True HD.
Bottom line if you want the best quality sound, use bitstream over PCM.The PS3 blue ray player will Produce great sound when in bitstream DTS&DD 5.1, also Dolby True HD 7.1. If you want DTS-HD you must purchase a blue ray player that processes the raw data to send to receiver and/or process the DTS-HD data itself for play back.

Utterly false.

The question is really about audio output modes on the PS3, not the audio formats on the disc. The audio track on the disc is either Linear PCM or a compressed format (which can be lossy, like DD/DTS, or lossless, like DD TrueHD or DTS-MA).

If you set the PS3 to output bitstream, then it will send exactly what's on the disc without modifying it at all, and it's up to your receiver to decode whatever needs decoding. If the PS3 is set to output PCM, then it will decode compressed formats into Linear PCM and send that LPCM stream to the receiver.

When you've selected a PCM soundtrack from the disc, then the PS3 will be sending PCM to the receiver regardless of the setting. However, as mentioned above, if the PS3 is set to bitstream then it won't be able to make any changes to the audio stream, such as mixing in menu sounds.

At this point, there's really no reason to select bitstream output on the PS3 unless your receiver has problems receiving multichannel PCM via HDMI. The PS3 is perfectly capable of decoding any of the available audio formats except DTS-MA (which is currently neither decoded nor passed as bitstream), and you get the ability for it to mix in additional audio.

The BD format is really designed for the player to do audio decoding anyway; the ability to pass the HD audio formats (DD TrueHD and DTS-MA) as bitstream to the receiver, which requires HDMI 1.3, is something that was demanded by the receiver manufacturers so that they could badge their receivers as "True-HD Capable" and "DTS-MA Capable". In reality, any receiver that can receive multichannel PCM over HDMI is capable of playing these formats, as long as the player does the decoding, which is what they're designed to do.
With the advent of firmware update 2.30 (latest is 2.35), you can now get DTS-MA and DTS-HD High Resolution on the PS3. The great value about MPCM, as you pointed out is, if you have at least HDMI1.1 on your AVR, and say your AVR only supports DD or DTS lossy. You can still get lossless via a PCM from the player like the PS3, which has a great decoder (probably the best on the marker with respect to BD players. The AVR will just pass the sound as it should, which will be heard in lossless. The PS3 currently only offers PCM for lossless sound.

Utterly false.
Your write up is totally incorrect. The PS3 has a great decoder on it, remember, the PS3 only provides MPCM for lossless sound (DD True HD/DTS-MA/DTS-HD High Res), and it sounds great. If you have a BD Player with a horrible decoder, then you should let your AVR decode the lossless or lossy sound for you.

Bitstream by far displays the better audio quality. If your dvd player allows a raw signal to pass to your receiver, your receiver can decode and process it the way it is meant to be processed. The PS3 can send the raw signal to the receiver to be processed in 5.1,and 7.1 dolby digital but cannot send the raw signal to be processed in 7.1 DTS-HD. The PS3 should be able to send raw signal to process blue ray disc in 7.1 Dolby True HD.
Bottom line if you want the best quality sound, use bitstream over PCM.The PS3 blue ray player will Produce great sound when in bitstream DTS&DD 5.1, also Dolby True HD 7.1. If you want DTS-HD you must purchase a blue ray player that processes the raw data to send to receiver and/or process the DTS-HD data itself for play back.
Your write up is totally incorrect. The PS3 has a great decoder on it, remember, the PS3 only provides MPCM for lossless sound (DD True HD/DTS-MA/DTS-HD High Res), and it sounds great. If you have a BD Player with a horrible decoder, then you should let your AVR decode the lossless or lossy sound for you.

Originally Posted by tystix
Bitstream by far displays the better audio quality. If your dvd player allows a raw signal to pass to your receiver, your receiver can decode and process it the way it is meant to be processed. The PS3 can send the raw signal to the receiver to be processed in 5.1,and 7.1 dolby digital but cannot send the raw signal to be processed in 7.1 DTS-HD. The PS3 should be able to send raw signal to process blue ray disc in 7.1 Dolby True HD.
Bottom line if you want the best quality sound, use bitstream over PCM.The PS3 blue ray player will Produce great sound when in bitstream DTS&DD 5.1, also Dolby True HD 7.1. If you want DTS-HD you must purchase a blue ray player that processes the raw data to send to receiver and/or process the DTS-HD data itself for play back.
Your write up is totally incorrect. The PS3 has a great decoder on it, remember, the PS3 only provides MPCM for lossless sound (DD True HD/DTS-MA/DTS-HD High Res), and it sounds great. If you have a BD Player with a horrible decoder, then you should let your AVR decode the lossless or lossy sound for you.

I totally agree. the PS3 is very capable of decoding any of the BD audio formats. I mentioned earlier I dont have HDMI on my AVR so I use optical. the decoding from the PS3 is set to PCM and then in turn my AVR grabs the signal and transcode it to 7.1 on DTS:NEO6 only when HD lossless is chosen (dolby digital wont use 7.1 in PCM) I watched I AM LEGEND the other night and my reciver did an amzing job of replicating LPCM signal (2ch) from the PS3 (I chose the 5.1 HD Lossless from the disc) I will try and use on bitstream to see what happens. and then i will set my AVR to Direct (raw passthrough on both the PS3 settings LPCM, and Bitstream) In LPCM the PS3 wont send all channels be it 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 over optical only through HDMI. I hope Sony can fix this with an update, I believe optical can handle the singal.....

I will post the results later.

However, the good thing about buying a good quality AVR is that like any component it will grab any signal sent to it and decoded again, HDTV's do it with the video track, even some AVR's wont "switch" the signal but replicate it. check you brand's websites to see what is it exactly your AVR do with the HDMI signal... i.e. some AVR have a repeater and some have video switch only(no sound)... read your manuals and study your specs...

BertBert

Plain and simple, "you can't bistream mulit-channel lossless via optical" cant do it no way no how. If you are using optical then set the ps3 to bistream and watch the movies with the Dolby Digital and DTS lossy tracks. They still sound great. Why would you want to send 2 channel PCM Lossless to your receiver and then have Dolby Pro Logic 2 or DTS Neo guess at what channels to send the info to? Pro Logic 2 whas made to create discrete channels out of Dolby Pro Logic which did not have discreet Rear Left and Right or Subwoofer channels.

Plain and simple, "you can't bistream mulit-channel lossless via optical" cant do it no way no how. If you are using optical then set the ps3 to bistream and watch the movies with the Dolby Digital and DTS lossy tracks. They still sound great. Why would you want to send 2 channel PCM Lossless to your receiver and then have Dolby Pro Logic 2 or DTS Neo guess at what channels to send the info to? Pro Logic 2 whas made to create discrete channels out of Dolby Pro Logic which did not have discreet Rear Left and Right or Subwoofer channels.
Cmon, give the guy a break :-) I assume he is not talking about something from the nineties, but means PLiXII and DTS NEO over HDMI, Marantz has both of these formats, and they also have circle. All three of the just mentioned can matrix up to 7.1, from a PCM data path from the player (PS3). From HDMI 1.1 you have the eight channels for PCM, which makes this special. You r correct about the optical, that's why you would never try to produce PCM accross this link, due to the two channel limitations, but instead bit-stream.

To understand and conclude. If I have a new receiver with decoders to DD-HD and DTS HD MA, audissey, THX post processing and HDMI 1.3, how do I set the PS3 to send these audio codecs? LPCM and forget the receiver`s decoder no matter how good they are? How can I set the PS-3 to send audio codecs like Dolby ES and DTS ES discrete when I play these not-so-old DVDs? Bitstream to allow my receiver to use its decoders?
So, no way to send DTS-MA via bitstream right? Only DD-HD 7.1?

Originally Posted by tystix
Bitstream by far displays the better audio quality. If your dvd player allows a raw signal to pass to your receiver, your receiver can decode and process it the way it is meant to be processed. The PS3 can send the raw signal to the receiver to be processed in 5.1,and 7.1 dolby digital but cannot send the raw signal to be processed in 7.1 DTS-HD. The PS3 should be able to send raw signal to process blue ray disc in 7.1 Dolby True HD.
Bottom line if you want the best quality sound, use bitstream over PCM.The PS3 blue ray player will Produce great sound when in bitstream DTS&DD 5.1, also Dolby True HD 7.1. If you want DTS-HD you must purchase a blue ray player that processes the raw data to send to receiver and/or process the DTS-HD data itself for play back.


I totally agree. the PS3 is very capable of decoding any of the BD audio formats. I mentioned earlier I dont have HDMI on my AVR so I use optical. the decoding from the PS3 is set to PCM and then in turn my AVR grabs the signal and transcode it to 7.1 on DTS:NEO6 only when HD lossless is chosen (dolby digital wont use 7.1 in PCM) I watched I AM LEGEND the other night and my reciver did an amzing job of replicating LPCM signal (2ch) from the PS3 (I chose the 5.1 HD Lossless from the disc) I will try and use on bitstream to see what happens. and then i will set my AVR to Direct (raw passthrough on both the PS3 settings LPCM, and Bitstream) In LPCM the PS3 wont send all channels be it 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 over optical only through HDMI. I hope Sony can fix this with an update, I believe optical can handle the singal.....

I will post the results later.

However, the good thing about buying a good quality AVR is that like any component it will grab any signal sent to it and decoded again, HDTV's do it with the video track, even some AVR's wont "switch" the signal but replicate it. check you brand's websites to see what is it exactly your AVR do with the HDMI signal... i.e. some AVR have a repeater and some have video switch only(no sound)... read your manuals and study your specs...

BertBert

Cmon, give the guy a break :-) I assume he is not talking about something from the nineties, but means PLiXII and DTS NEO over HDMI, Marantz has both of these formats, and they also have circle. All three of the just mentioned can matrix up to 7.1, from a PCM data path from the player (PS3). From HDMI 1.1 you have the eight channels for PCM, which makes this special. You r correct about the optical, that's why you would never try to produce PCM accross this link, due to the two channel limitations, but instead bit-stream.

He mentions that his receiver DOES NOT HAVE HDMI, that was the reason for my comments on using bitstreaming instead of matrixing the 2 channel lossless PCM using Dolby ProLogic 2.

To understand and conclude. If I have a new receiver with decoders to DD-HD and DTS HD MA, audissey, THX post processing and HDMI 1.3, how do I set the PS3 to send these audio codecs? LPCM and forget the receiver`s decoder no matter how good they are? How can I set the PS-3 to send audio codecs like Dolby ES and DTS ES discrete when I play these not-so-old DVDs? Bitstream to allow my receiver to use its decoders?
So, no way to send DTS-MA via bitstream right? Only DD-HD 7.1?


You must set the PS3 to LPCM and forget your receivers DD-HD and DTS-HD decoders, your reciever will still process the MCPCM with the Audissey settings and you should be able to apply THX post processing. If you want to send the Dolby ES and DTS ES codecs then you must change the PS3 to bitstream during these movies. This can be done on the fly by hitting the green triangle on the ps3 controller or remote and changing the audio options. The PS3 does not have the necessary hardware to bitstream the HD codecs.

To understand and conclude. If I have a new receiver with decoders to DD-HD and DTS HD MA, audissey, THX post processing and HDMI 1.3, how do I set the PS3 to send these audio codecs? LPCM and forget the receiver`s decoder no matter how good they are? How can I set the PS-3 to send audio codecs like Dolby ES and DTS ES discrete when I play these not-so-old DVDs? Bitstream to allow my receiver to use its decoders?
So, no way to send DTS-MA via bitstream right? Only DD-HD 7.1?
For your first question, you have to make sure your sound path form the PS3 to your AVR is HDMI to experience lossless perform the following:

1. go to audio output settings
2. select HDMI
3. go for manual set-up
4. Select everything including the bit stream options (DD and DTS 5.1). Your other selections will apply for LPCM, which will give you lossless at different time frames (HZ); save this configuration (the PS3 will select the best sound, per your selection from the title).
5. Your AMP will then send the sound to its DSP (skipping its decoder) and you will hear lossless (you will not see the LEDs on the AVR show lossless, but it may show PCM). If you doubt the sound do a comparison between lossy DD or DTS and lossless DD and DTS, you will hear the difference (this was tested with a buddy of mine who has the Yamaha 663, great AVR). Also, the great thing about the PS3 is its decoding technique is great. A great test will be I am legend (DD True HD) when he is driving the Ford Cobra SVT, or Hit Man (DTS MA), when they are on the train fighting with the swords

Note: With the PS3, it is probably the only player out there that can PCM DTS anything, especially lossless DTS, the band width for this sound format is at least approximately 25Mbs (half of a DS3 and thanks to HDMI for being such huge transmission path), that is why in my opinion it is superior to DD, and I can hear the difference between the two, either lossy or lossless. The PS3 does not currently support DTS ES, may be in a future release. Everything with the PS3 will only get better; especially with the updates you can achieve this unit. Most next gen AVR can perform the ES for u, via PCM

Also, if you have BD titles which can PCMs in 7.1, you can send this pure sound bit-4-bit to the AVR from the PS3, and get HD sound. If the title only supports lossless 5.1, you can select PLiXII or DTS-neo to up matrix to 7.1 from a PCM data path in put.

He mentions that his receiver DOES NOT HAVE HDMI, that was the reason for my comments on using bitstreaming instead of matrixing the 2 channel lossless PCM using Dolby ProLogic 2.
I read his comment, I am just adding good data, it is all good...

I read his comment, I am just adding good data, it is all good...

:):):):):):):):):)

I have a BOSE 321 series 2.1 system. Have the PS3 via optical and set at bitstream. Tried Golden compass and Rambo both are DTS-MA 7.1 and no sound. Is it because the BOSE can't do DTS? Everything works for National Treasure1&2 etc.. just the DTS no sound. Is it a setting issue? Both discs don't have any other audio option other than the DTS-MA.

I dont believe the 321 system can decode dts-ma.

Ahh that's what I thought oh well.

I have a BOSE 321 series 2.1 system. Have the PS3 via optical and set at bitstream. Tried Golden compass and Rambo both are DTS-MA 7.1 and no sound. Is it because the BOSE can't do DTS? Everything works for National Treasure1&2 etc.. just the DTS no sound. Is it a setting issue? Both discs don't have any other audio option other than the DTS-MA.

You might try going in to the Optical output set up on the PS3 and manually setting it up. Take the check mark off of DTS5.1 ch. and make sure that there is a check mark under Linear PCM 2 ch. 44.1khz. See if the PS3 will output the DTS track as a 2 channel PCM track this way. I just tried it on mine and it does work. I am not sure that the Bose will accept 2 channel PCM but it should. It is the standard the CD players use. It's worth a shot and should get you audio on the DTS only disc.

I have a BOSE 321 series 2.1 system. Have the PS3 via optical and set at bitstream. Tried Golden compass and Rambo both are DTS-MA 7.1 and no sound. Is it because the BOSE can't do DTS? Everything works for National Treasure1&2 etc.. just the DTS no sound. Is it a setting issue? Both discs don't have any other audio option other than the DTS-MA.

If the Bose can't play regualar DTS then you won't be able to hear the DTS core that the PS3 is sending out while set to bitstream.

Can the Bose accept pcm? If it can, set the PS3 to pcm and you will at least get 2.0 pcm so you will be able to hear the movies.

I read this whole thread and to sum up what I've learned:

Using Onkyo 805 connected with HDMI.

For Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio sources use LPCM to get lossless and uncompressed audio. This is because the PS3 can't pass these uncompressed via bitstream.

For all other formats like DD, DTS, DD EX, DD Plus, DTS-ES Discrete, DTS-Matrix and DTS HD High Resolution use bitstream. These will theoretically sound the same whether you use LPCM or bitsream. However last night we watched Rambo on DVD with a Dolby Digital EX soundtrack. I had the PS3 on LPCM and it just didn't sound very loud or dinamic. The gun shouts where not loud at all. After I switched to bitstream everything came to life. The guns and explotions where loud. There was a night and day difference. I say use bitsream for these formats.

Am I correct with my accessment?

However last night we watched Rambo on DVD with a Dolby Digital EX soundtrack. I had the PS3 on LPCM and it just didn't sound very loud or dinamic. The gun shouts where not loud at all. After I switched to bitstream everything came to life. The guns and explotions where loud. There was a night and day difference. I say use bitsream for these formats.

Am I correct with my accessment?You may just be noticing the difference in loudness. The PS3's LPCM output is substantially quieter than its bitstream output.

I read this whole thread and to sum up what I've learned:

Using Onkyo 805 connected with HDMI.

For Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio sources use LPCM to get lossless and uncompressed audio. This is because the PS3 can't pass these uncompressed via bitstream.

For all other formats like DD, DTS, DD EX, DD Plus, DTS-ES Discrete, DTS-Matrix and DTS HD High Resolution use bitstream. These will theoretically sound the same whether you use LPCM or bitsream. However last night we watched Rambo on DVD with a Dolby Digital EX soundtrack. I had the PS3 on LPCM and it just didn't sound very loud or dinamic. The gun shouts where not loud at all. After I switched to bitstream everything came to life. The guns and explotions where loud. There was a night and day difference. I say use bitsream for these formats.

Am I correct with my accessment?

I would say you are correct because I think DD and DTS signals have to be decoded a certain way that only your receiver can do, and in most cases the receiver can only do that with a bitstream input. When I LCPM a DVD, my LFE never sounds as good as if I bitstream. Someone said earlier it's in the DD and DTS decoding "algorithms" that the PS3 cannot do, only your receiver.

I read this whole thread and to sum up what I've learned:

Using Onkyo 805 connected with HDMI.

For Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio sources use LPCM to get lossless and uncompressed audio. This is because the PS3 can't pass these uncompressed via bitstream.

For all other formats like DD, DTS, DD EX, DD Plus, DTS-ES Discrete, DTS-Matrix and DTS HD High Resolution use bitstream. These will theoretically sound the same whether you use LPCM or bitsream. However last night we watched Rambo on DVD with a Dolby Digital EX soundtrack. I had the PS3 on LPCM and it just didn't sound very loud or dinamic. The gun shouts where not loud at all. After I switched to bitstream everything came to life. The guns and explotions where loud. There was a night and day difference. I say use bitsream for these formats.

Am I correct with my accessment?

The ps3 will convert standard DD and DTS to MCPCM juts fine. Under the PS3 AV settings turn Dynamic Range Control to OFF, under the PS3 Volume Control Settings give it a boost to +1 or +2 and it will sound about the same level as your receiver doing the decoding then. What it will not do is properly decode standard DD or DTS 6.1 flagged soundtracks, it will output them as 5.1 MCPCM as well. So if you have a 6.1 setup then I would bitstream these soundtracks.

Cmon, give the guy a break :-) I assume he is not talking about something from the nineties, but means PLiXII and DTS NEO over HDMI, Marantz has both of these formats, and they also have circle. All three of the just mentioned can matrix up to 7.1, from a PCM data path from the player (PS3). From HDMI 1.1 you have the eight channels for PCM, which makes this special. You r correct about the optical, that's why you would never try to produce PCM accross this link, due to the two channel limitations, but instead bit-stream.

Plain and simple, "you can't bistream mulit-channel lossless via optical" cant do it no way no how. If you are using optical then set the ps3 to bistream and watch the movies with the Dolby Digital and DTS lossy tracks. They still sound great. Why would you want to send 2 channel PCM Lossless to your receiver and then have Dolby Pro Logic 2 or DTS Neo guess at what channels to send the info to? Pro Logic 2 whas made to create discrete channels out of Dolby Pro Logic which did not have discreet Rear Left and Right or Subwoofer channels.


Guys!!! thank you for your concern... but yes I have it set to LPCM, and have tried both PCM and BITSTREAM and i do get a better sound of LPCM. I trust my receiver can and will do a great job of replicating the sound. yes the PCM sound is a bit 'low' but all I have done is to turn the volume level up in the 'triangle menu' to 2, this takes care of the 'low sound'.

As any person that likes music, and movies, I am all about more the SOUND QUALITY, than SOUND LOUDNESS. if I want loud sound then I would turn every channel and setting as lowd as I can and then I would crank the volume. I rather my reciver grab an uncompressed source like LPCM (albeit 2CH) and code it to its own format be it DD PLIIx or DISCRETE 7.1 NEO:6 (YES I SAID NEO) I can have my receiver not compress the signal at all. If you watched I am Legend the scene where he is saying good bye to his wife and daughter in the chopper the sound and quality of PCM was by far way better. In PCM, when the chopper blades where gaining power and getting ready to take off not only was the sound awesome but I could actually feel the pulse of the blade cutting the air, as if the chopper was right infront of me, when played back in BITSTREAM it was just loud noise... Anyhow I hope to keep hearing from you...

BertBert

Cmon, give the guy a break :-) I assume he is not talking about something from the nineties, but means PLiXII and DTS NEO over HDMI, Marantz has both of these formats, and they also have circle. All three of the just mentioned can matrix up to 7.1, from a PCM data path from the player (PS3). From HDMI 1.1 you have the eight channels for PCM, which makes this special. You r correct about the optical, that's why you would never try to produce PCM accross this link, due to the two channel limitations, but instead bit-stream.

Plain and simple, "you can't bistream mulit-channel lossless via optical" cant do it no way no how. If you are using optical then set the ps3 to bistream and watch the movies with the Dolby Digital and DTS lossy tracks. They still sound great. Why would you want to send 2 channel PCM Lossless to your receiver and then have Dolby Pro Logic 2 or DTS Neo guess at what channels to send the info to? Pro Logic 2 whas made to create discrete channels out of Dolby Pro Logic which did not have discreet Rear Left and Right or Subwoofer channels.


Guys!!! thank you for your concern... but yes I have it set to LPCM, and have tried both PCM and BITSTREAM and i do get a better sound of LPCM. I trust my receiver can and will do a great job of replicating the sound. yes the PCM sound is a bit 'low' but all I have done is to turn the volume level up in the 'triangle menu' to 2, this takes care of the 'low sound'.

As any person that likes music, and movies, I am all about more the SOUND QUALITY, than SOUND LOUDNESS. if I want loud sound then I would turn every channel and setting as lowd as I can and then I would crank the volume. I rather my reciver grab an uncompressed source like LPCM (albeit 2CH) and code it to its own format be it DD PLIIx or DISCRETE 7.1 NEO:6 (YES I SAID NEO) I can have my receiver not compress the signal at all. If you watched I am Legend the scene where he is saying good bye to his wife and daughter in the chopper the sound and quality of PCM was by far way better. In PCM, when the chopper blades where gaining power and getting ready to take off not only was the sound awesome but I could actually feel the pulse of the blade cutting the air, as if the chopper was right infront of me, when played back in BITSTREAM it was just loud noise... Anyhow I hope to keep hearing from you...
Plain and simple, "you can't bistream mulit-channel lossless via optical" cant do it no way no how.Jaymaker you are right about this but the signal is still uncompressed that is why I set to LPCM...



BertBert

Mack and Jay:::
Maybe you can help me a bit more, when I choose BITSTREAM from the PS3 settings, and from the 5.1 true DDHD from the disc my receiver says it's getting 5.1 DD but I'm guessing this is not true DD HD of course? Am I wrong, is this just a DD signal and that's it?

2. Your high-def TV and high-def DVD player have HDMI; your AV receiver doesn’t.

Use a HDMI connection between TV and player, for full high-definition video. Then, use a coaxial digital audio connection between player and receiver. Remember: because movies and music with DTS-HD encoded content contain a DTS Digital Surround “core”, your older receiver will play back DTS-HD material with DTS surround audio at twice the data rate of other DVD video surround formats. So, you’re still going to get higher quality sound than you’re used to hearing.

this quote is from DTS.COM

Mack and Jay:::
Maybe you can help me a bit more, when I choose BITSTREAM from the PS3 settings, and from the 5.1 true DDHD from the disc my receiver says it's getting 5.1 DD but I'm guessing this is not true DD HD of course? Am I wrong, is this just a DD signal and that's it?

If you select BITSTREAM within the PS3 Menu Dolby True-HD will default to DD. In order to get Dolby True-HD you must set your PS3 to LPCM & also make sure your receiver is outputting it in MC PCM. If you receiver is outputting in MC PCM then you are hearing Dolby True-HD. Many people get confused by this, but they shouldn't. Always remember the PS3 is doing the decoding internally not the receiver, hence why the receiver will display MC PCM

2. Your high-def TV and high-def DVD player have HDMI; your AV receiver doesn’t.

Use a HDMI connection between TV and player, for full high-definition video. Then, use a coaxial digital audio connection between player and receiver. Remember: because movies and music with DTS-HD encoded content contain a DTS Digital Surround “core”, your older receiver will play back DTS-HD material with DTS surround audio at twice the data rate of other DVD video surround formats. So, you’re still going to get higher quality sound than you’re used to hearing.

this quote is from DTS.COM

This is correct for receivers without HDMI inputs capable of MCPCM, The DTS lossy core sounds pretty damn good to. The DTS Core is output at 1.5meg and the Lossy Dolby Digital found on Bluray is at 640k. If your reciever does not have HDMI then you must set the PS3 to Bitstream to reap the benefits of these.

I would say you are correct because I think DD and DTS signals have to be decoded a certain way that only your receiver can do, and in most cases the receiver can only do that with a bitstream input. When I LCPM a DVD, my LFE never sounds as good as if I bitstream. Someone said earlier it's in the DD and DTS decoding "algorithms" that the PS3 cannot do, only your receiver.

Utter nonsense.

Except for the 6.1 versions of DD and DTS, LPCM and bitstream will be exactly the same other than volume level (turn the knob to fix this, it's easy).

Utter nonsense.

Except for the 6.1 versions of DD and DTS, LPCM and bitstream will be exactly the same other than volume level (turn the knob to fix this, it's easy).

Wow this thread is confusing :confused:. So, help me out here please. What is the advantage of sending 5.1 DD or DTS over HDMI in LCPM vs. bitstream? I don't know if its just me but just "turning the knob" makes it louder but not as dynamic as bitstream. If there is no advantage then I might as well keep it bitstream so I can see the pretty lights on my AVR on! (J/K) :p

Wow this thread is confusing :confused:. So, help me out here please. What is the advantage of sending 5.1 DD or DTS over HDMI in LCPM vs. bitstream? I don't know if its just me but just "turning the knob" makes it louder but not as dynamic as bitstream. If there is no advantage then I might as well keep it bitstream so I can see the pretty lights on my AVR on! (J/K) :p

There is no advantage of sending lossy DD and DTS over HDMI via LCPM. The problem is to get the Dolby TruHD and DTS-HDMA tracks to play lossless, you must set your PS3 to PCM. I really don't feel like changing my audio settings on the PS3 every time I switch from watching Bluray to DVD. The good thing is you don't have to beacause the PS3 will decode it all just fine and send it via PCM. Much easier for the wife I don't have to explain to her that she has to change from PCM to Bitstream depending on the disc. If using an optical cable for your audio connection you want to set it to bitstream though or you WILL NOT GET TRUE MULITCHANNEL AUDIO.

There is no advantage of sending lossy DD and DTS over HDMI via LCPM. The problem is to get the Dolby TruHD and DTS-HDMA tracks to play lossless, you must set your PS3 to PCM. I really don't feel like changing my audio settings on the PS3 every time I switch from watching Bluray to DVD. The good thing is you don't have to beacause the PS3 will decode it all just fine and send it via PCM. Much easier for the wife I don't have to explain to her that she has to change from PCM to Bitstream depending on the disc. If using an optical cable for your audio connection you want to set it to bitstream though or you WILL NOT GET TRUE MULITCHANNEL AUDIO.

That is exactly how I understood it. I only switch mine to PCM with dtsma or dthd, just one button push really. I still think lossy DD and DTS sound better over bitstream, not sure of the technical reason for that.

That is exactly how I understood it. I only switch mine to PCM with dtsma or dthd, just one button push really. I still think lossy DD and DTS sound better over bitstream, not sure of the technical reason for that.

Any differences you are hearing, for good or bad, are all due to what your receiver is doing. This may be something you can control in your receiver or something that can't be changed. With my receiver (Integra 8.8) it sounds identical.

That is exactly how I understood it. I only switch mine to PCM with dtsma or dthd, just one button push really. I still think lossy DD and DTS sound better over bitstream, not sure of the technical reason for that.

Any differences you are hearing, for good or bad, are all due to what your receiver is doing. This may be something you can control in your receiver or something that can't be changed. With my receiver (Integra 8.8) it sounds identical.

I totally agree with you guys about the whole difference of BIT and PCM. it sounds just the same on my receiver, however, and I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I leave my PS3 on PCM, and I get awesome results. I have optical and my reciver grabs that 2CH uncompresed signal and matrix it to 7.1 channels, am I getting HD sound no, but I didnt notice any difference between DTS or DD on bitstream or pcm over optical. last night I watched The Golden Compass which is DTS HD 7.1 lossless and when I left it on PCM the signal was coming between 5.5 and 7.5 mbps. when I switched to Bitstream it was a constant 1.5mbps. I also noticed that on PCM my AVR said (decoded as) DTS + NEO:6 when on Bitstream it only said DTS. dont forget that NEO:6 is the same as DTS ES but specificaly for 2CH sources. Any receiver with out DTS ES would not play NEO:6 signals. I know NEO:6 is something from the 'nineties' but it works... if its not broken dont fix it.

Anyhow until next time

I did some expiramenting today and and I am now convinced that LPCM is the way to go.

First on the SD DVD War of the Worlds' DTS soundtrack there was no noticable differance between bitstream and LPCM. I took the advice of jaymerkramer and turned dynamic range off and turned the volume on the PS3 to +1. Could not tell a differance. Note: When bitsteaming the volume control on PS3 does not change the volume, only when using LPCM.

On the BD version of 300 there are 3 English soundracks. DD 5.1, DD TrueHD 5.1 and Linear PCM 5.1. Clearly LPCM was better on the DD TrueHD and Linear PCM soundracks. Could not tell a differance with the regular Dolby Digital. Note: When Linear PCM 5.1 is played you cannot use bitstream and Multichannel is automatically used.

I thought DD TueHd was the best but the Linear PCM track had higher Mbps numbers so is it better? It definitly sounded the best.

Any differences you are hearing, for good or bad, are all due to what your receiver is doing. This may be something you can control in your receiver or something that can't be changed. With my receiver (Integra 8.8) it sounds identical.

BINGO! What I've been saying for the past 9 or 10 MONTHS. People hear the difference between the PS3 LPCM decoding and the AVR Bitstream, and hear the AVR as LOUDER (not better) And they come to the grand conclusion that the PS3 is doing a crappy job of decoding. ANY differenece you hear between LPCM and Bitstream can be attributed to the AVR coloring the signal AFTER decoding and processing.

BINGO! What I've been saying for the past 9 or 10 MONTHS. People hear the difference between the PS3 LPCM decoding and the AVR Bitstream, and hear the AVR as LOUDER (not better) And they come to the grand conclusion that the PS3 is doing a crappy job of decoding. ANY differenece you hear between LPCM and Bitstream can be attributed to the AVR coloring the signal AFTER decoding and processing.

Guys!!! thank you for your concern... but yes I have it set to LPCM, and have tried both PCM and BITSTREAM and i do get a better sound of LPCM. I trust my receiver can and will do a great job of replicating the sound. yes the PCM sound is a bit 'low' but all I have done is to turn the volume level up in the 'triangle menu' to 2, this takes care of the 'low sound'.

As any person that likes music, and movies, I am all about more the SOUND QUALITY, than SOUND LOUDNESS. if I want loud sound then I would turn every channel and setting as lowd as I can and then I would crank the volume. I rather my reciver grab an uncompressed source like LPCM (albeit 2CH) and code it to its own format be it DD PLIIx or DISCRETE 7.1 NEO:6 (YES I SAID NEO) I can have my receiver not compress the signal at all. If you watched I am Legend the scene where he is saying good bye to his wife and daughter in the chopper the sound and quality of PCM was by far way better. In PCM, when the chopper blades where gaining power and getting ready to take off not only was the sound awesome but I could actually feel the pulse of the blade cutting the air, as if the chopper was right infront of me, when played back in BITSTREAM it was just loud noise... Anyhow I hope to keep hearing from you...
Plain and simple, "you can't bistream mulit-channel lossless via optical" cant do it no way no how.Jaymaker you are right about this but the signal is still uncompressed that is why I set to LPCM...



BertBert

I've been saying the same...

You'll get the multichannel PCM tracks over HDMI even when HDMI is set to bitstream on the PS3. However, you lose sounds mixed and overlayed by the PS3 (e.g., menu sounds seen in numerous BD titles currently available) when listening to DD or DTS on BDs.

With regards to legacy DD and DTS, there is no quality difference between the PCM and bitstream settings with my Denon AVR-4306. For me, setting the PS3 to decode DD or DTS results in the same quality as when letting my receiver directly handle the lossy codecs. I tested this by using numerous movie scenes that strongly engage all channels.

I have my PS3 set to PCM, because this way my Denon applies its AL24 processing regardless of what I'm listening to, and I always get sounds mixed by the PS3 itself.

A quick question ? How is that that you loose "sounds mixed and overlayed by the PS3 (e.g., menu sounds seen in numerous BD titles currently available) when listening to DD or DTS on BDs." and what are these sounds to begin with ? How are they created - are they on the original BD and if so, why would they not be heard when using bitstream option as well ?

Thanks,
Nikonowski

The question is really about audio output modes on the PS3, not the audio formats on the disc. The audio track on the disc is either Linear PCM or a compressed format (which can be lossy, like DD/DTS, or lossless, like DD TrueHD or DTS-MA).

If you set the PS3 to output bitstream, then it will send exactly what's on the disc without modifying it at all, and it's up to your receiver to decode whatever needs decoding. If the PS3 is set to output PCM, then it will decode compressed formats into Linear PCM and send that LPCM stream to the receiver.

When you've selected a PCM soundtrack from the disc, then the PS3 will be sending PCM to the receiver regardless of the setting. However, as mentioned above, if the PS3 is set to bitstream then it won't be able to make any changes to the audio stream, such as mixing in menu sounds.

At this point, there's really no reason to select bitstream output on the PS3 unless your receiver has problems receiving multichannel PCM via HDMI. The PS3 is perfectly capable of decoding any of the available audio formats except DTS-MA (which is currently neither decoded nor passed as bitstream), and you get the ability for it to mix in additional audio.

The BD format is really designed for the player to do audio decoding anyway; the ability to pass the HD audio formats (DD TrueHD and DTS-MA) as bitstream to the receiver, which requires HDMI 1.3, is something that was demanded by the receiver manufacturers so that they could badge their receivers as "True-HD Capable" and "DTS-MA Capable". In reality, any receiver that can receive multichannel PCM over HDMI is capable of playing these formats, as long as the player does the decoding, which is what they're designed to do.

Question about DTS-HD Master Audio (via bitstream) vs. LPCM

Hello Dixie Flatline - I wonder if you help explaining this for me...

I appreciate your help in advance but me and my brother-in-law have an ongpoing debate and we were wondering if good and knowledgable folks from AVS forum, could help us with it.

Here is the deal, I have Samsung BD-1400 and my brother-in-law has a Sony BDP-300.
When we play a Blu Ray disc that is mastered in DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 in our respective players, I enable bitstream on Sammie 1400 and push onto Denon AVR-988 and DTS-HD Master audio comes on in its full glory as that Denon reciever decodes the bitstream and displays DTS-HD Master audio on its front pannel. I believe this is the best way to get full DTS-HD Master audio from my setup.

Now the question that started this whole debate between us, is as follows: when my brother in-law plays the same disc that is mastered in DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 on his Sony-BDP300 he has 2 options to choose on that player: bitstream and lpcm

1) when he chooses bitstream, we both think that the most he gets from that DTS-HD Master Audio track id core only DTS at 1.5Mbs ?? This is a lossy DTS codec that is inferior to full DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 Can someone confirm that so we know that our assumption is valid ?

2) Now , onto the LPCM option - the whole source of this debate. My brother in-law is convinced that when he switches to LPCM option on his Sony-BDP300 Blu Ray player, he gets a much better sounding soundtrack (his reciever displays MPCM) and he is convinced that the quality of sound that he is getting via LPCM is identical to DTS-HD Master Audio I am getting on my Samsung 1400 when I use bitstream option.

Here are our questions:

1) Is that possible and if so how does this work ?

2) Why is the quality of the sound , sounds so much better with LPCM option vs. Bitsream on his Sony BDP-300 ?

3) What kind of the bit rates (for audio) will there be when LPCM is chosen ?

4) I thought that the only way to get the full DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 was to either use on board decoding within Blu Ray player or via bitstream to capable reciever such as Denon AVR 988 > Could this be Sony best kept secret and if so , why would they keeep it quiet about this potentially exciting feature ?

Thanks very much for listening and answering

P.S> My brother-in-law had a Yamaha reciever V1800 and he is using HDMI from Sony BD player.

Regards,
Nikonowski

I completely disagree with several of you claiming Bitstream and LPCM sound or should sound the same. For most DD/DTS standard tracks on BD or DVD bitstream is better, not always, but most of the time. The LFE and bass are some times, not all but sometimes lacking when playing DD/DTS back LPCM. I used to listen to everything LPCM, but not anymore. I reserve LPCM for games that require it or that sound no different and for DTS MA and Tru HD. If as some claim DTS/DD are being colored by the receiver that is because that is how those compressed codecs are supposed to sound when bitstreamed and decoded by your receiver. If as I say some DD/DTS tracks don't sound as good, it is because they are not IMO being properly decoded by the PS3 prior to being passed onto the receiver in LPCM mode. There is also the issue of some audio tracks of varying in transfer quality when put onto disc by the audio engineers.

And it is not because the PS3 is doing a "crappy" job of decoding. Again, IMO opinion it is because some of those tracks are simply better decoded by the receiver. It also isn't just a volume issue. I have heard some DD/DTS tracks that have actually sounded better when sent LPCM.

If as some claim DTS/DD are being colored by the receiver that is because that is how those compressed codecs are supposed to sound when bitstreamed and decoded by your receiver..

Not true at all.. By your definition a bitstreamed DD/DTS track should sound the same on ALL AVR's, beacause they are being bitstreamed, and this is JUST NOT TRUE. Every AVR adds it's own color to the sound AFTER decoding. Onkyo's are known to be warm (bass heavy) were as Yamaha's are know to be bright etc. There is no way the codecs know how there are "supposed to sound" They are what they are, and the coloration is added by the AVR. This coloration is dependent on the AVR and has nothing to do with the decoding.

I totally agree with you guys about the whole difference of BIT and PCM. it sounds just the same on my receiver, however, and I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I leave my PS3 on PCM, and I get awesome results. I have optical and my reciver grabs that 2CH uncompresed signal and matrix it to 7.1 channels, am I getting HD sound no, but I didnt notice any difference between DTS or DD on bitstream or pcm over optical. last night I watched The Golden Compass which is DTS HD 7.1 lossless and when I left it on PCM the signal was coming between 5.5 and 7.5 mbps. when I switched to Bitstream it was a constant 1.5mbps. I also noticed that on PCM my AVR said (decoded as) DTS + NEO:6 when on Bitstream it only said DTS. dont forget that NEO:6 is the same as DTS ES but specificaly for 2CH sources. Any receiver with out DTS ES would not play NEO:6 signals. I know NEO:6 is something from the 'nineties' but it works... if its not broken dont fix it.

Anyhow until next time

BertBert, just because the PS3 Display said it was outputting audio @ 5.5-7.5 mpbs via DTS HD doesn't mean that's what your receiver was also outputting. The most mpbs an optical cable could allow is up to 1.5 mpbs. An optical cable doesn't have enough bandwidth that's why you didn't hear a difference when you switch from BIT to PCM.

Question about DTS-HD Master Audio (via bitstream) vs. LPCM

Hello Dixie Flatline - I wonder if you help explaining this for me...

I appreciate your help in advance but me and my brother-in-law have an ongpoing debate and we were wondering if good and knowledgable folks from AVS forum, could help us with it.

Here is the deal, I have Samsung BD-1400 and my brother-in-law has a Sony BDP-300.
When we play a Blu Ray disc that is mastered in DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 in our respective players, I enable bitstream on Sammie 1400 and push onto Denon AVR-988 and DTS-HD Master audio comes on in its full glory as that Denon reciever decodes the bitstream and displays DTS-HD Master audio on its front pannel. I believe this is the best way to get full DTS-HD Master audio from my setup.

Now the question that started this whole debate between us, is as follows: when my brother in-law plays the same disc that is mastered in DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 on his Sony-BDP300 he has 2 options to choose on that player: bitstream and lpcm

1) when he chooses bitstream, we both think that the most he gets from that DTS-HD Master Audio track id core only DTS at 1.5Mbs ?? This is a lossy DTS codec that is inferior to full DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 Can someone confirm that so we know that our assumption is valid ?

2) Now , onto the LPCM option - the whole source of this debate. My brother in-law is convinced that when he switches to LPCM option on his Sony-BDP300 Blu Ray player, he gets a much better sounding soundtrack (his reciever displays MPCM) and he is convinced that the quality of sound that he is getting via LPCM is identical to DTS-HD Master Audio I am getting on my Samsung 1400 when I use bitstream option.

Here are our questions:

1) Is that possible and if so how does this work ?

2) Why is the quality of the sound , sounds so much better with LPCM option vs. Bitsream on his Sony BDP-300 ?

3) What kind of the bit rates (for audio) will there be when LPCM is chosen ?

4) I thought that the only way to get the full DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 was to either use on board decoding within Blu Ray player or via bitstream to capable reciever such as Denon AVR 988 > Could this be Sony best kept secret and if so , why would they keep it quiet about this potentially exciting feature ?

Thanks very much for listening and answering

P.S> My brother-in-law had a Yamaha reciever V1800 and he is using HDMI from Sony BD player.

Regards,
Nikonowski

Question 1:
The SONY BDP-300 doesn't offer DTS-MA. It outputs DTS-MA in DTS Core

Question 2
It could be due to the player decoding the audio instead of the receiver

Question 3

You will get the full bitrate of any BD Movie that offers Advance Audio Codec (Uncompressed 5.1, Dolby True-HD, but not DTS-MA)

Question 4
It's not a secret. It's been known forever that any BD Player that doesn't BITSTREAM the Advance Audio Codecs will internally decode them.

Question 1:
He is correct. He is getting the same exact sound as you are. The difference is his player is decoding the audio internally (think of the audio as an unzipped file) & unzipping it as LPCM. Compared to your receiver which is doing the decoding.

Question 2
See answer-1. (His player is decoding the sound)

Question 3

You will get the full bitrate of any BD Movie that offers Advance Audio Codec (Uncompressed 5.1, Dolby True-HD or DTS-MA)

Question 4
It's not a secret. It's been known forever that any BD Player that doesn't BITSTREAM the Advance Audio Codecs will internally decode them.

Except I don't think the Sony 300 can decode DTS-HD MA, so h's only getting the core DTS.

Except I don't think the Sony 300 can decode DTS-HD MA, so h's only getting the core DTS.

You are correct Jay. Thanks for the clarification

You are correct Jay. Thanks for the clarification

Thanks all, I still do not understand why he feels that DTS sound that he is outputing via LPCM sounds so much better then via bitsream - they should be all the same: he should be getting excatly the same quality: lossy DTS core 1.5 Mbs stream. Which is a lot lower (and sounding worse) than HD-DTS Master Audio - am I not correct ?

I don't buy that there is so much difference (in his opinion) in processing this signal either through player decoding it internally or reciever decoding it via bitstream. The result is still lossy DTS core 1.5 Mbs stream either way and should sound the same !!! What gives ?

One other thing that he mentiones is that he does not get menu sounds with bitsream option but gets them with LPCM - does anyone know why is that ?

By the way, his BD player is actually Sony -BDP-S1 and not BDP-300 as I misstated before. Sorry about that. I think overall that doesn't make any difference because niether player can decode DTS-HD Master Audio internally - is that safe assumption ?

Thanks for your valuable feedback.
Nikonowski

You are correct Jay. Thanks for the clarification

Thanks! So to summarize - he is only able to get lossy DTS core @ 1.5Mbs from any 5.1 DTS-HD Master Audio that he plays - is that correct ?

There is no secret way for him to get the full 5.1 DTS-HD Master Audio from his Sony BDP-S1 or Sony BDP-300 player - is there ?

Nikonowski

Not true at all.. By your definition a bitstreamed DD/DTS track should sound the same on ALL AVR's, beacause they are being bitstreamed, and this is JUST NOT TRUE. Every AVR adds it's own color to the sound AFTER decoding. Onkyo's are known to be warm (bass heavy) were as Yamaha's are know to be bright etc. There is no way the codecs know how there are "supposed to sound" They are what they are, and the coloration is added by the AVR. This coloration is dependent on the AVR and has nothing to do with the decoding.

I never said that at all. Of course they are going to sound different on different AVR's. I was comparing movie to movie, not AVR TO AVR. None of that changes the facts of what I said about Bitstream vs. LPCM.

Thanks! So to summarize - he is only able to get lossy DTS core @ 1.5Mbs from any 5.1 DTS-HD Master Audio that he plays - is that correct ?

There is no secret way for him to get the full 5.1 DTS-HD Master Audio from his Sony BDP-S1 or Sony BDP-300 player - is there ?

Nikonowski

Nikonowski, he will not be able to get DTS-HD MA from neither player no matter if he tries BITSTREAM or PCM. Sorry :(

OK, thaks all for all you valuable feedback over the last few days. As you recall, myself and my brother-in-law had a "little" debate about sound quality when playing DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 Blu Ray disc.

So we dcided to test it out ourselves yesterday and we did

Background:

I have Samsung 1400 (with 1.7FW) so I can bitstream DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 to my reciever (Denon AVR-988)


He has Sony BDP-S1 BD player and he cannot decode nor bitsream DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1, however, he can convert to PCM via menu on his Sony BDP-S1 BD player .


So what we did next, we played the same BD disc in both players and output via HDMI to Denon reciever.

We could not tell the difference in sound quality from player to player! The sound was excellent from both, even though I was getting DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 light up on the Denon reciever when playing via Samsung 1400 and he was getting Multi Channel PCM display when playing from his Sony BDP-S1 BD player. The only piesce of mind was that I was trully outputing DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 because Denon reciever showed us so. The quality was exceptional (and we think identical) from both.

So what gives here, according to most (if not all) of your feedback, Sony BDP-S1 BD player should be only outputting lossy DTS core from DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 discs but I can assure you, the quality was the same from both of our players !!!??? Should it be ? I am at a loss what's happening here. At the beginning, I was thinking that what my brother-in-law tells me , it is just his perception , but I have to be honest here: to me as well, the quality was identical ! So I guess, you do not need to have player that can bitstream DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 after all (!) as you can obtain the same quality with PCM option! I woudl love to know why this is happening and maybe this is an excpeted behaviour - I just always thought that the DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 sound should be superior - especially over lossy DTS core ! Please remember that Sony BDP-S1 BD player does not decode DTS-HD internally and only can extract DTS core via bitstream or PCM option.

Couple other important items that have come up during our text:

Sony BDP-S1 BD player cannot output 7.1 surround sound when playing DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1 disc , even after converting to PCM - so that's a one shortcoming.

Also, the strangest thing is those menu sounds. They are on ( i.e. menus make sounds when navigating between different options: Scene selection, play etc...) when playing via PCM but not on (not sounds at all) when navigating when using Bitstream option. Some of you suggested that you can turn these menu sounds on or off via disc menu selection. Well, we looked and looked and no! There is no option to turn them on anywhere. We used "The day after tomorrow" disc. The funny thing is that the same behaviour with teh menu sounds as I described above happened with both BD players: Sony BDP-S1 BD player and Samsung 1400. Can someone explain taht one to me - I am really at loss here. What gives ?

To summarize though, quality was amazing (identical to us) with both players. We did play like certain scenes from The day after tomorrow" disc 20 times in a row on each player.

Please help restore our sanity :

Thanks,
Nikonowski

Apologies. I'm coming in on this conversation mid-discussion, but some notes based on your post:Sony BDP-S1 BD player cannot output 7.1 surround sound when playing DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1 disc , even after converting to PCM - so that's a one shortcoming.If the player can't process DTS-HDMA and instead uses the DTS core track, then that would explain why it's only 5.1. You'd have to then matrix the 5.1 track to 7.1 via your receiver (if it's capable of it), but that still wouldn't make it a true 7.1 track.

To summarize though, quality was amazing (identical to us) with both players.As far as I'm aware, the S1 still can't bitstream or decode DTS-MA. Your AVR is essentially telling you that one player is sending it DTS-MA and the other is sending it DTS core (as decoded multichannel PCM), but if your ears can't tell the difference, then just be happy and don't worry about it.

Apologies. I'm coming in on this conversation mid-discussion, but some notes based on your post:If the player can't process DTS-HDMA and instead uses the DTS core track, then that would explain why it's only 5.1. You'd have to then matrix the 5.1 track to 7.1 via your receiver (if it's capable of it), but that still wouldn't make it a true 7.1 track.

As far as I'm aware, the S1 still can't bitstream or decode DTS-MA. Your AVR is essentially telling you that one player is sending it DTS-MA and the other is sending it DTS core (as decoded multichannel PCM), but if your ears can't tell the difference, then just be happy and don't worry about it.

Thanks confidenceman

I am happy, however I am just so surprised to find that out. You have to remember what we found out in my test that if we switch Sony S1 output to bitstream the DTS core track that we getting as a result, sounds noticeably worse than when we use the PCM option on S1. The surprised thing is that the PCM output sounds that so much better and it is supposed to be the same lossy DTS core only track. I just cannot believe it that this is the case.

That's all - I am trying to get someone to explain this "phenomenon" to me. Is the processing different within S1 for bitstream vs. pcm and if so, what's so different then.

I am perhaps sounding like a broken record already - I just would like to know :)

Thanks,
Nikonowski

I am trying to get someone to explain this "phenomenon" to me. Is the processing different within S1 for bitstream vs. pcm and if so, what's so different then.I'm sure others have pointed this out already, but it really could just be a difference in audio processing between the S1 and your AVR.

Perhaps you just don't like the way your AVR processes the DTS core track compared to how the S1 does it. Both are decoding the same DTS track, but you just happen to prefer the way the S1 decodes it. But in neither case could/should it be a DTS-MA track (which you're getting from the Samsung player that you're using for comparison).

I have reading this thread trying to figure stuff out, and I am so confused. When watching a Standard DVD with DD, DD EX, DTS, etc. what should the PS3 be set to?

Now that the PS3 can handle DTS-MA, I assume it can decode all audio codecs internally. Can't we just leave it on LPCM all the time??? I assume that when the PS3 is set to LPCM and I bring up the display, the audio codec being shown at the top right is what the PS3 is outputting and what my receiver is...receiving.

That is all what I think based on my understanding of all of this garbage, but I've heard that the PS3 still can't handle DTS-MA (even after the April update) or the PS3 can't handle DD EX or my Onkyo 805 can't handle certain audio codecs.

Am I right to assume that with my PS3 outputting audio my Onkyo 805 via HDMI that I am decoding (or have the ability to decode) ALL audio codecs???

I have reading this thread trying to figure stuff out, and I am so confused. When watching a Standard DVD with DD, DD EX, DTS, etc. what should the PS3 be set to?

Now that the PS3 can handle DTS-MA, I assume it can decode all audio codecs internally. Can't we just leave it on LPCM all the time??? I assume that when the PS3 is set to LPCM and I bring up the display, the audio codec being shown at the top right is what the PS3 is outputting and what my receiver is...receiving.

That is all what I think based on my understanding of all of this garbage, but I've heard that the PS3 still can't handle DTS-MA (even after the April update) or the PS3 can't handle DD EX or my Onkyo 805 can't handle certain audio codecs.

Am I right to assume that with my PS3 outputting audio my Onkyo 805 via HDMI that I am decoding (or have the ability to decode) ALL audio codecs???

If you keep your ps3 on LPCM you are good to go, though there are some caveats. The ps3 will take any standard DVD or Bluray encodes in DD-EX or DTS-ES and output it as 5.1 when using LPCM. If you have a 6.1 setup then I would recommend you set the PS3 to bitstream while watching these disc. The PS3 handles DTS-MA, DTS-HD and DolbyTru-HD just fine when set to LPCM. You are correct in that what ever codec the PS3 is playing shows when you press the display button. Your Onkyo 805 will decode all current codecs available, if you had a Bluray or HDDVD player that was capable of bitstreaming the HD Lossless codecs then you would see your receiver decode these just fine and the front display would show this as well.
Hope this helps!

Apologies. I'm coming in on this conversation mid-discussion, but some notes based on your post:If the player can't process DTS-HDMA and instead uses the DTS core track, then that would explain why it's only 5.1. You'd have to then matrix the 5.1 track to 7.1 via your receiver (if it's capable of it), but that still wouldn't make it a true 7.1 track.

As far as I'm aware, the S1 still can't bitstream or decode DTS-MA. Your AVR is essentially telling you that one player is sending it DTS-MA and the other is sending it DTS core (as decoded multichannel PCM), but if your ears can't tell the difference, then just be happy and don't worry about it.

I am pretty convinced nobody on this forum would not tell any difference as there is none ! The only difference you get when you play this movie on S1 using bitstream.Then the quality is crappy lossy DTS core track. As soon as you switch to LPCM on S1 the quality matches exactly the quality of DTS-MA track that I am getting from my Samsung 1400 via bitstream (FW 1.7) There is no difference whatsoever :) I have listened to different part of this movie about 20-50 times on each and I will restate , there is no difference. Why doesn't somebody test that themselves as well. I am sure your results will be the same on any DTS-HD MA 5.1 discs. Please note that we used the same receiver (Denon AVR-988) with both players and no processing of any kind was added on the reciever, just direct signal (one player displayed DTS-HD MA and the other one DVD Multi Channel in (PCM)

Nikonowski

I'm sure others have pointed this out already, but it really could just be a difference in audio processing between the S1 and your AVR.

Perhaps you just don't like the way your AVR processes the DTS core track compared to how the S1 does it. Both are decoding the same DTS track, but you just happen to prefer the way the S1 decodes it. But in neither case could/should it be a DTS-MA track (which you're getting from the Samsung player that you're using for comparison).

There is no difference whatsoever I have listened to different part of this movie about 20-50 times on each and I will restate , there is no difference. Why doesn't somebody test that themselves as well. I am sure your results will be the same on any DTS-HD MA 5.1 discs. Please note that we used the same receiver (Denon AVR-988) with both players and no processing of any kind was added on the reciever, just direct signal (one player displayed DTS-HD MA and the other one DVD Multi Channel in (PCM)

Nikonowski

There is no difference whatsoever I have listened to different part of this movie about 20-50 times on each and I will restate , there is no difference. Why doesn't somebody test that themselves as well. I am sure your results will be the same on any DTS-HD MA 5.1 discs. Please note that we used the same receiver (Denon AVR-988) with both players and no processing of any kind was added on the reciever, just direct signal (one player displayed DTS-HD MA and the other one DVD Multi Channel in (PCM)

Nikonowski

I totally agree with you here. My friend just bought a Samsung BDP1500 from Wally world and brought it over so I could see the the pretty DTS-HD MA show up on my Yammy 1800. We compared it back and forth with my PS3 watching the crash scene from Flight of the Phoenix and neither one of us could tell any difference in the two once they were both volume level matched. This debate will never end!

Then the quality is crappy lossy DTS core track.

I just thought this was funny. Remember when DTS was the best you could get???

Someone in this or a similar thread said it simply and best.

DVD's go bitstream.

BD's go LPCM.

I just thought this was funny. Remember when DTS was the best you could get???

No!:D LOL never been big fan of DTS. It always sounded too bright too me (of course I have Klipsch speakers)

Someone in this or a similar thread said it simply and best.

DVD's go bitstream.

BD's go LPCM.

Hughmc, I am not sure if your statement has to do with anything we have been dicussing here: Bitstream vs. LPCM ? Besides, who watches DVDs any longer really ? :))

Nikonowski

Someone in this or a similar thread said it simply and best.

DVD's go bitstream.

BD's go LPCM.

Except for BD's that don't have a lossless track ;)

I totally agree with you here. My friend just bought a Samsung BDP1500 from Wally world and brought it over so I could see the the pretty DTS-HD MA show up on my Yammy 1800. We compared it back and forth with my PS3 watching the crash scene from Flight of the Phoenix and neither one of us could tell any difference in the two once they were both volume level matched. This debate will never end!


Thanks jaymerkramer!

I don't mind the debates - I actually love them :) However, there is nothing to debate here. There is no difference!

What I don't like is that some people are suggesting that to enjoy DTS-HD Master Audio you need greatest and the most expensive equipment, but as I proved it it is not the case at all. So all of you that have older equipment can enjoy the latest HD codecs.

Nikonowski

Except for BD's that don't have a lossless track ;)

There is no difference whatsoever I have listened to different part of this movie about 20-50 times on each and I will restate , there is no difference. Why doesn't somebody test that themselves as well. I am sure your results will be the same on any DTS-HD MA 5.1 discs. Please note that we used the same receiver (Denon AVR-988) with both players and no processing of any kind was added on the reciever, just direct signal (one player displayed DTS-HD MA and the other one DVD Multi Channel in (PCM)

Nikonowski;););)

There is no difference whatsoever I have listened to different part of this movie about 20-50 times on each and I will restate , there is no difference. Why doesn't somebody test that themselves as well. I am sure your results will be the same on any DTS-HD MA 5.1 discs. Please note that we used the same receiver (Denon AVR-988) with both players and no processing of any kind was added on the reciever, just direct signal (one player displayed DTS-HD MA and the other one DVD Multi Channel in (PCM)

Nikonowski;););)

I wasn't referring to the player or receiver decoding lossless tracks, I was talking about when to leave the PS3 set to PCM as opposed to bitstream.

Thanks jaymerkramer!

I don't mind the debates - I actually love them :) However, there is nothing to debate here. There is no difference!

What I don't like is that some people are suggesting that to enjoy DTS-HD Master Audio you need greatest and the most expensive equipment, but as I proved it it is not the case at all. So all of you that have older equipment can enjoy the latest HD codecs.

Nikonowski

Here's the problem, you are saying that there's no difference between the full DTS-HD MA track and the basic DTS core track. This is simply not true. If you can' hear the difference then you are doing something wrong or your equipment (including ears) isn't good enough.

Here's the problem, you are saying that there's no difference between the full DTS-HD MA track and the basic DTS core track. This is simply not true. If you can' hear the difference then you are doing something wrong or your equipment (including ears) isn't good enough.

Well, I appreciate your feedback Jay_Davis, however, I would challenge you to do the test I performed yourself :) There will be no difference.

And you have to fully understand what I am saying and that is: there is no difference in playing full DTS-HD MA track with Samsung 1400 via bitstream output vs. playing the same full DTS-HD MA track with Sony S1 via PCM output. The quality is excellent and equal with both methods. I have never said that no difference between the full DTS-HD MA track and the basic DTS core track in general. You are right it should be but in my test there wasn't any so I am asking , what gives ???How come?

Regards,
Nikonowski

Well, I appreciate your feedback Jay_Davis, however, I would challenge you to do the test I performed yourself :) There will be no difference.

And you have to fully understand what I am saying and that is: there is no difference in playing full DTS-HD MA track with Samsung 1400 via bitstream output vs. playing the same full DTS-HD MA track with Sony S1 via PCM output. The quality is excellent and equal with both methods. I have never said that no difference between the full DTS-HD MA track and the basic DTS core track in general. You are right it should be but in my test there wasn't any so I am asking , what gives ???How come?

Regards,
Nikonowski

What gives??? If you are bitstreaming a DTS-HD MA track to a AVR that will decode it the end result will be a decoded DTS-HD MA track coming from the speakers. Now if you have the Sony S1 Decode the DTS-HD- MA track and send it via PCM to the same AVR, the end result will be...a DTS-HD MA track from your speakers. I dont understand where the DTS core track comes into play in this case. All you have proven is that the Track sounds the same no matter where the decoding is being done. On board the BDP S1 or the AVR the end result is the same.

What gives??? If you are bitstreaming a DTS-HD MA track to a AVR that will decode it the end result will be a decoded DTS-HD MA track coming from the speakers. Now if you have the Sony S1 Decode the DTS-HD- MA track and send it via PCM to the same AVR, the end result will be...a DTS-HD MA track from your speakers. I dont understand where the DTS core track comes into play in this case. All you have proven is that the Track sounds the same no matter where the decoding is being done. On board the BDP S1 or the AVR the end result is the same.

Good points :)

Except Sony S1 does not decode the DTS-HD- MA track , it does not have that capability. So according to some folks on this forum , the best you can out of the Sony S1 is lossy DTS core track which should sound a lot worse than the DTS-HD- MA track I am bitstreaming from my samsung 1400 to reciever. However, I am saying that the quality is the same :)

N.

Good points :)

Except Sony S1 does not decode the DTS-HD- MA track , it does not have that capability. So according to some folks on this forum , the best you can out of the Sony S1 is lossy DTS core track which should sound a lot worse than the DTS-HD- MA track I am bitstreaming from my samsung 1400 to reciever. However, I am saying that the quality is the same :)

N.

The "quality" is the same, quality being the key word. I don't know where you got the idea or belief that the 1.5 DTS core track should be a lot worse. That just isn't true.
While the DTS core track is amazing and some AVS insiders who work on audio for films have said at 1.5 Mbps there is no "audible" discernable difference to the human ear compared to the lossless DTS MA track, the DTS MA track seems to have more punch than the 1.5. I think the DTS MA track is "better".

Hughmc, I am not sure if your statement has to do with anything we have been dicussing here: Bitstream vs. LPCM ? Besides, who watches DVDs any longer really ? :))

Nikonowski

Kevin12586 gets it and it absolutely matters and is part of the point of this thread.

Alrighty since everyone here seems to know 10 times what i do. And reading through the posts is making my head spin, tell me what you would recommend for my set up.

PS3 of course and a Pioneer VSX-1016TXV which has HDMI, but only for video :( it doesnt accpet audio on it. I bought it thinking that it was ok because i planed running HDMI right to my tv for video and optical to receiver for audio. What i didnt know was the optical out was limited for a PS3 for true lossless audio. I dont feel like getting a new reciever so what do you guys recommend for the best sound. I have a 5.1 system

Alrighty since everyone here seems to know 10 times what i do. And reading through the posts is making my head spin, tell me what you would recommend for my set up.

PS3 of course and a Pioneer VSX-1016TXV which has HDMI, but only for video :( it doesnt accpet audio on it. I bought it thinking that it was ok because i planed running HDMI right to my tv for video and optical to receiver for audio. What i didnt know was the optical out was limited for a PS3 for true lossless audio. I dont feel like getting a new reciever so what do you guys recommend for the best sound. I have a 5.1 system

hehe, set your ps3 to bitstream via optical. You'll get lossy but good soundtracks.

What you see above is lossless debate of compressed lossless vs. uncompressed lossless. At the end of the day, "Do what makes you happy."

-Splints

The "quality" is the same, quality being the key word. I don't know where you got the idea or belief that the 1.5 DTS core track should be a lot worse. That just isn't true.
While the DTS core track is amazing and some AVS insiders who work on audio for films have said at 1.5 Mbps there is no "audible" discernable difference to the human ear compared to the lossless DTS MA track, the DTS MA track seems to have more punch than the 1.5. I think the DTS MA track is "better".

Hughmc, thanks for your feedback! I think that you are the first person here that said that quality is the same. And Yes, "quality being the key word. " :)
All I have been hearing all along is that DTS-MA is simply the best that there is and there is day and night difference between it and DTS core - well in my tests , it became that isn't so. So I am simply stating that peopels hsoul not spend money on teh greatest and latest just to get the DTS-MA stream to work either with recieved or decoded internally. It may not be worth it , taht's all. I rest my case.

Thanks all for you great feedback and I have learned a lot!

Cheers,
N.

Well, I appreciate your feedback Jay_Davis, however, I would challenge you to do the test I performed yourself :) There will be no difference.

And you have to fully understand what I am saying and that is: there is no difference in playing full DTS-HD MA track with Samsung 1400 via bitstream output vs. playing the same full DTS-HD MA track with Sony S1 via PCM output. The quality is excellent and equal with both methods. I have never said that no difference between the full DTS-HD MA track and the basic DTS core track in general. You are right it should be but in my test there wasn't any so I am asking , what gives ???How come?

Regards,
Nikonowski

The S1 doesn't decode DTS-HD MA, so you are comparing a DTS-HD MA track to the DTS core. There is a difference. If you don't hear the difference then your setup is weak. Could be the receiver or your speakers. I'm betting you can't hear the benefit of a True-HD or native PCM track either.

hehe, set your ps3 to bitstream via optical. You'll get lossy but good soundtracks.

What you see above is lossless debate of compressed lossless vs. uncompressed lossless. At the end of the day, "Do what makes you happy."

-Splints

Splints!!!

You're a wise man... very wise indeed...!!!!

The S1 doesn't decode DTS-HD MA, so you are comparing a DTS-HD MA track to the DTS core. There is a difference. If you don't hear the difference then your setup is weak. Could be the receiver or your speakers. I'm betting you can't hear the benefit of a True-HD or native PCM track either.

Jay_Davis, once again , I appreciate your comments , but I respectfully beg to differ. I don't have a top of the line setup, but it isn't weak either:

- Denon AVR-988 reciever
- 7 Paradigm speakers and Yamaha Active subwoofer
- quality speaker cables and banana plugs
(the speakers were calibrated for my room using Denon's auto setup ( I took measurements in 8th position across my room)

So the setup isn't that weak after all in my opinion. I also tested it on a different setup ( my brother's in law) :

- Yamaha 1800 reciever
- 7.1 Klipich speakers + sub
- quality speaker cables and banana plugs

And same results, there were no difference between the DTS core vs. DTS-MA. I wish you could hear it yourself :) I will test the TrueHD vs PCM track. What else can I do to prove that there is no difference ? And really, should there be a difference and if so, what difference would one excpect ? How do you determine that difference? Can you tell yourself on your setup and what's your setup ? The only difference I hear is when I play the 5.1 DTS-HD MA disc on Sony S1 via bitstream - then it really sounds crappy i.e. sounds like the way you and other folks are saying: lossy DTS core track. However, once I switch S1 to PCM output, the sound is identical to what I hear via bitsream on Samsung 1400 ??? Go figure :)

Regards,
Nikonowski

P.S> Can someone do a similar tests to compare if their experience is the sam or different. I would love to find out!

hehe, set your ps3 to bitstream via optical. You'll get lossy but good soundtracks.

What you see above is lossless debate of compressed lossless vs. uncompressed lossless. At the end of the day, "Do what makes you happy."

-Splints


Splints, the actual debate that is going on in this thread is about a difference (or lack of any in this case) in sound quality of lossless track (DTS-HD MA) versus lossy DTS core that is being played via PCM output.

Cheers,
Nikonowski

Jay_Davis, once again , I appreciate your comments , but I respectfully beg to differ. I don't have a top of the line setup, but it isn't weak either:

- Denon AVR-988 reciever
- 7 Paradigm speakers and Yamaha Active subwoofer
- quality speaker cables and banana plugs
(the speakers were calibrated for my room using Denon's auto setup ( I took measurements in 8th position across my room)

So the setup isn't that weak after all in my opinion. I also tested it on a different setup ( my brother's in law) :

- Yamaha 1800 reciever
- 7.1 Klipich speakers + sub
- quality speaker cables and banana plugs

And same results, there were no difference between the DTS core vs. DTS-MA. I wish you could hear it yourself :) I will test the TrueHD vs PCM track. What else can I do to prove that there is no difference ? And really, should there be a difference and if so, what difference would one excpect ? How do you determine that difference? Can you tell yourself on your setup and what's your setup ? The only difference I hear is when I play the 5.1 DTS-HD MA disc on Sony S1 via bitstream - then it really sounds crappy i.e. sounds like the way you and other folks are saying: lossy DTS core track. However, once I switch S1 to PCM output, the sound is identical to what I hear via bitsream on Samsung 1400 ??? Go figure :)

Regards,
Nikonowski

P.S> Can someone do a similar tests to compare if their experience is the sam or different. I would love to find out!

Well, I can hear it. The PS3 can send core DTS as Bitstream or PCM and DTS-HD MA as PCM. I have it going to an Integra 8.8 with THX Ultra2 sound processing on it (regardless of mode or stream type so the receiver always processes them the same). The speakers (7.1) are Infinity Betas (50/20/C250/ES250) with an Elemental Designs A5-350 sub.

The best way I can describe the difference is that the lossless audio has more details. Is it HUGE, night and day difference? No. But it is noticeable. I should note that this is with 24 bit soundtracks and does depend on the soundtrack itself. Not everything really takes advantage of the difference. It also doesn't matter whether it's DTS-HD MA, True-HD, or native PCM, they really are the same.

Well, I can hear it. The PS3 can send core DTS as Bitstream or PCM and DTS-HD MA as PCM. I have it going to an Integra 8.8 with THX Ultra2 sound processing on it (regardless of mode or stream type so the receiver always processes them the same). The speakers (7.1) are Infinity Betas (50/20/C250/ES250) with an Elemental Designs A5-350 sub.

The best way I can describe the difference is that the lossless audio has more details. Is it HUGE, night and day difference? No. But it is noticeable. I should note that this is with 24 bit soundtracks and does depend on the soundtrack itself. Not everything really takes advantage of the difference. It also doesn't matter whether it's DTS-HD MA, True-HD, or native PCM, they really are the same.

I agree, lossless has the "potential" to sound much better, However..

Just like Bluray/HD DVD has the "capacity" for much higher birates for video,
it still does NOT guaranty that you will always get significantly better picture quality over upconverted standard definition DVD.

Some movies just look/sound substantially better than others, over SD DVD
..That's why there's Teir threads stickied in the BD and HD DVD forums.

My favorite Demo material for audio "quality", by far...
Dave Mathews and Tim Reynolds Live at Radio City Music Hall (http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/964/davematthews_liveatradiocity.html)
the 96kHz/24 Bit TrueHD track made me a believer.

Use the PS3 audio selection on the pop-up menu to toggle from TrueHD to DD
only a fool would pick the 640kbps DD over the TrueHD that frequently spikes in the 10Mbps range.
You sometimes have to account for level differences, but the quality of the audio is significantly better
once output levels are matched.

My stuff:
Yamaha RX-V1800 AVR
9 Mission Speakers (7.1 plus 2 for front presence)
12" Velodyne Sub

What are the yamaha ysp-4000 bitstream and linear pcm specs, or restrictions

I have a few concerns regarding this issue. I'm no expert at this Home Theater stuff, so bare with me. I recently bought a Samsung BD-P1500 Blu Ray thats hooked up via a Samsung LN46A650 TV via a Sony 1.2 receiver. Everything is connected via HDMI cables. I plan on buying the Sony STR-DA5300ES very soon, which is equipped with HDMI version 1.3. I hate to say it, but my previous Yamaha DVD player actually sounded way better. I have the blu ray player set to PCM because, according to the manual, it is the appropriate choice since the receiver is NOT equipped with HDMI version 1.3 Problem is, now I have to turn up the volume slightly higher than I did before, when listening to movies, plus movies don't sound as good as compared to the Yamaha. Remember, the Yamaha is just a standard DVD player, so nothing fancy here. Does this mean that I need the 1.3 receiver? According to the Samsung manual, it is suggested that I set the digital audio output to Bitstream (audiophile), only if I have a receiver with HDMI version 1.3 (which I don't have yet). Having said this, I noticed that my receiver no longer displays the type of surround formats, such as DTS, Dolby Digital or Dolby Digital EX, especially when playing standard DVD's. Now, no matter what I play, whether it be a blu ray or standard dvd, the display always reads "linear pcm 48khz". Is this because the blu ray player is doing the decoding? If I replace the old receiver for the newer 1.3 receiver, and set it to "bitstream", this means the receiver will do the decoding for the player, right? Any input out there is appreciated.

I have a few concerns regarding this issue. I'm no expert at this Home Theater stuff, so bare with me. I recently bought a Samsung BD-P1500 Blu Ray thats hooked up via a Samsung LN46A650 TV via a Sony 1.2 receiver. Everything is connected via HDMI cables. I plan on buying the Sony STR-DA5300ES very soon, which is equipped with HDMI version 1.3. I hate to say it, but my previous Yamaha DVD player actually sounded way better. I have the blu ray player set to PCM because, according to the manual, it is the appropriate choice since the receiver is NOT equipped with HDMI version 1.3 Problem is, now I have to turn up the volume slightly higher than I did before, when listening to movies, plus movies don't sound as good as compared to the Yamaha. Remember, the Yamaha is just a standard DVD player, so nothing fancy here. Does this mean that I need the 1.3 receiver? According to the Samsung manual, it is suggested that I set the digital audio output to Bitstream (audiophile), only if I have a receiver with HDMI version 1.3 (which I don't have yet). Having said this, I noticed that my receiver no longer displays the type of surround formats, such as DTS, Dolby Digital or Dolby Digital EX, especially when playing standard DVD's. Now, no matter what I play, whether it be a blu ray or standard dvd, the display always reads "linear pcm 48khz". Is this because the blu ray player is doing the decoding? If I replace the old receiver for the newer 1.3 receiver, and set it to "bitstream", this means the receiver will do the decoding for the player, right? Any input out there is appreciated.

It's possible your receiver can't do any processing on on the PCM stream. So when you send it PCM, you get the raw stream output but when you send it the bitstream it does everything it should (bass management, listening fields, etc). You'll have to check the forum thread for the specific receiver to see what it's limitations are.

I haven't used the Samsung 1500, but I don't believe it decodes DTS-HD MA, so the only advantage you get with it set to PCM mode is decoding True-HD. If your receiver is limited, you may want to leave the Samsung in bitstream mode except when you want to play something with a True-HD track (obviously something with a native PCM track will also be sent to the receiver as PCM).

And, yes, with the Samsung, if you get a 1.3 receiver that can decode all the formats, you should get everything. Note that there are some receivers with the "reverse" problem where they can't apply processing when receiving a some bitstreams (for example, they don't have enough DSP power to decode DTS-HD MA and apply listening fields to it). So make sure you don't assume "1.3" is automatically "perfect".

If you are going to use bitstream for legacy codecs, is there a consensus as whether to use HDMI or optical?

If you are going to use bitstream for legacy codecs, is there a consensus as whether to use HDMI or optical?

Shouldn't matter.

Nikonowski-


It's dangerous to assume that because you (and perhaps your neighbor) cannot discern a difference between the two (codecs), that no one else can (be it for a superior set of ears, elevated equipment, superior room acoustics- or a combination of the 3) . My brother played this game with me with 320 mp3's and flac files and I nailed the "higher fidelity" of the uncompressed file about 20 out of 25 trials.

As some have keenly pointed out, certain material can be much more revealing than other sources- as I can certainly attest that I absoulutely would have difficulty discerning a qualitative difference between much of my own compressed and uncompressed media.


just something to keep in mind.

James

Nikonowski-


It's dangerous to assume that because you (and perhaps your neighbor) cannot discern a difference between the two (codecs), that no one else can (be it for a superior set of ears, elevated equipment, superior room acoustics- or a combination of the 3) . My brother played this game with me with 320 mp3's and flac files and I nailed the "higher fidelity" of the uncompressed file about 20 out of 25 trials.

As some have keenly pointed out, certain material can be much more revealing than other sources- as I can certainly attest that I absoulutely would have difficulty discerning a qualitative difference between much of my own compressed and uncompressed media.


just something to keep in mind.

James

mastermaybe, thanks for your feedback! I really understand what you are saying, and I am going into this debate with an open mind. However, I cannot deny what I'm hearing - and I am really being honest here.

Plus, no one really explained to me if there are technological differences between the 2 codecs (bit rate, etc..) All I am hearing is that DTS-HD Master Audio is better than DTS core outputted via PCM and I am saying it is not - it is identical on my equipment or if there is a difference, I cannot hear it ! So I am simply stating, you don't necessary need to but greatest and latest reciever or BD player - decent older reciever will do the trick with the new HD codecs as well. Oh well, you will not see the DTS-HD MA logo on your reciever, instead you will see MPCM which sounds excatly the same :)

Reagrds,
Nikonowski