today i went shopping in a dutch store

i wanted foyles war a britisch drama series.

anyway i checked prices and find to my surprise that 1 season ( 4 discs ) is only 10 euro! around 12 usa dollars. and every disc is basicly a movie because 1 episode is around 90 minutes. so seeing that cheap price, i bought season 2 and 3 with it as well. 18 hours of movie for around 36 bucks!

for that price i only have 2 movies on either hd-dvd or bluray!

so hereby came to the conslusion that if i had to chose for 36 bucks. i would rather spend it on something i can enjoy for 18 hours then for 3 hours.

and the ordinary people would do the same. the format that wins this war wont be about the cheap players. it is about cheap discs. whatever format brings the prices down of the discs towards that of dvds will win this war.

Its hard to generalize something like that. I won't buy SD anymore, so I'd leave a bargain DVD of a show/movie I want on the shelf just because its SD.
Well, that leaves just short of 300,000,000 people that have a completely different opinion.

today i went shopping in a dutch store

and the ordinary people would do the same. the format that wins this war wont be about the cheap players. it is about cheap discs. whatever format brings the prices down of the discs towards that of dvds will win this war.

I agree with you. I don't like spending $25-$30 USD on HD movies. In the 10 months I have owned an HD-DVD player I have purchased 22 HD-DVD's and 76 SD-DVD's. I oculd have easily purchased another 15 HD-DVD's but elected not to based on price. The up conversion of the play suits my needs just fine.

k

I don't plan on buying anymore SD movies, but I will rent them if they aren't available and we want to see them now.

Example, I rented BSG season 2 on regular old DVD. Recorded Season 3 off of Universal HD.

...and the ordinary people would do the same. the format that wins this war wont be about the cheap players. it is about cheap discs. whatever format brings the prices down of the discs towards that of dvds will win this war.

This has been repeatedly said. Two basic, essential ingradients for winning the war (against SD DVD) ...
- Inexpensive Players (below $200 ?)
- Inexpensive movies (same or no more than couple of $ above SD)

today i went shopping in a dutch store

i wanted foyles war a britisch drama series.

anyway i checked prices and find to my surprise that 1 season ( 4 discs ) is only 10 euro! around 12 usa dollars. and every disc is basicly a movie because 1 episode is around 90 minutes. so seeing that cheap price, i bought season 2 and 3 with it as well. 18 hours of movie for around 36 bucks!

for that price i only have 2 movies on either hd-dvd or bluray!

so hereby came to the conslusion that if i had to chose for 36 bucks. i would rather spend it on something i can enjoy for 18 hours then for 3 hours.

and the ordinary people would do the same. the format that wins this war wont be about the cheap players. it is about cheap discs. whatever format brings the prices down of the discs towards that of dvds will win this war.
Dude ! you are wasting time time browsing a Dutch retailer? :eek:

U need to go to one of them happy cafe's , take a look at the menu, sit back and enjoy :cool: ;)

This has been repeatedly said. Two basic, essential ingradients for winning the war (against SD DVD) ...
- Inexpensive Players (below $200 ?)
- Inexpensive movies (same or no more than couple of $ above SD)

Yep, the first part is understood by Toshiba,

The second part isn't understood by the film companies.
For them the HD formats are an opportunity to raise the price level of discs in the future. Price levels of SD DVD have now dropped so low on average, say $10 that they now wan't a new format to establish a future average of let's say $11.
This won't fly anymore. Asking +$20 prices for movies that can be found in SD discount bins for less than $10 around the corner is a good way create a niche market.

Dude ! you are wasting time time browsing a Dutch retailer? :eek:

U need to go to one of them happy cafe's , take a look at the menu, sit back and enjoy :cool: ;)

The movies are for when he leaves the cafe.

Dude ! you are wasting time time browsing a Dutch retailer? :eek:

U need to go to one of them happy cafe's , take a look at the menu, sit back and enjoy :cool: ;)

He probably did. How else he got the stupid idea to hunt for HD content at Dutch retailers. :rolleyes:

same thing happened in 1997, you could buy any VHS movie for 4.99$ and dvd were 19.99-29.99$

same thing happened in 1997, you could buy any VHS movie for 4.99$ and dvd were 19.99-29.99$
I don't believe that is true, and VHS and the only similarity that VHS and DVD had was that both of them had movies on them. DVD and HDDVD/BD are exactly the same in every way that matters to the average consumer, except for price.

I agree, this is going to be something driven by pricing. Cheap players aren't going to hurt, but "Average Joe" definitely doesn't believe there's a $400 difference between an upscaled DVD and an HD-DVD. He might not believe there's a $10 difference between any single movie.

Plus, "Average Joe" might not even have HDTV at this point anyway.

If the manufacturers have to drop the prices to the same as DVD, then the whole selling point of HD / BD from the sellers' point of view (i.e., more profit) is lost.

If they can't make a profit on either format, my guess is that both formats will die.

I agree, this is going to be something driven by pricing. Cheap players aren't going to hurt, but "Average Joe" definitely doesn't believe there's a $400 difference between an upscaled DVD and an HD-DVD. He might not believe there's a $10 difference between any single movie.

Plus, "Average Joe" might not even have HDTV at this point anyway.

If the manufacturers have to drop the prices to the same as DVD, then the whole selling point of HD / BD from the sellers' point of view (i.e., more profit) is lost.

If they can't make a profit on either format, my guess is that both formats will die.

I'm fairly sure they are making a profit at today's prices, at least on the software side. The early adopters and not-so-average Joes with 100+ inch screens are willing to pay the price premium (hardware and software) at least for now. Can either HD-DVD or Blu-ray survive merely as a niche format for the videophile-only crowd ? Or do they really need to tackle the mass market and drop prices to something close to DVD player/software pricing, perhaps a slight markup ? If the prices stay where only rich HT nuts will want to play, then DVD will rule a long time and the choices of HD DVD/Blu Ray movies will remain pretty limited.

I don't buy SD anymore either. After HD, I think spending money on SD for my home defeats the purpose of owning HD gear.

I have a 50" plasma that's not the bleeding edge in pricing, but is decent enough quality that the past two years of watching HD-cable programming like CSI:Miami and Desperate Housewives :D via the SA8300HD box has made most DVDs unwatchable for me. In fact, I go through the motions of buying a few key DVDs and the buying slowly dried up because I noticed that CSI in highdef looks so much better than any DVD I have.

The way to sell highdef is to get people to watch HDTV of anykind for a few months. Then give them a free DVD. The shock of watching the SD DVD after months of highdef cable is enough to surprise anyone what low-res we've been watching --- especially on bigger displays.

Having said that. As long as the price war keeps pricing low, I say thanks to all participants and I will continue to buy the HDM as long as pricing is reasonable.

Fox and Universal have to do something about their pricing. It's just not good to everyone. If NatM or Smokin Aces was $5 cheaper,maybe they'd sell twice as many disks.

Can either HD-DVD or Blu-ray survive merely as a niche format for the videophile-only crowd ? Or do they really need to tackle the mass market and drop prices to something close to DVD player/software pricing, perhaps a slight markup ? If the prices stay where only rich HT nuts will want to play, then DVD will rule a long time and the choices of HD DVD/Blu Ray movies will remain pretty limited.

HiDef DVD can't survive as niche. They need to move into mass market or the big studios will drop out - just like they did with UMD.

Also many indies will never put out movies in HD unless it goes mainstream.

UMD failed cause no one is seriously going to watch 2 hour movies on a little handheld. Plus, they cost the same as DVDs. UMD movies were a major rip off.

So what? In America, you can get hundreds of dvds of public domain movies and television shows for $1 a disc at every Wal-mart.

If some is priced more that you're will to pay for it, then you don't buy it. If it's priced at less than what you're willing to pay for it, then consider it a bargain (or as the economists would say, your consumer surplus).

As long as HD sat and DVR's are around none of the HD formats will survive as mainstream. That said, Laserdisc had a nice niche for 20 years and it did well. I see both formats taking the role of LD.

Laserdisc had a nice niche for 20 years and it did well. I see both formats taking the role of LD.

I was going to say the same thing. LD never moved into the mainstream, but that didn't make the studios "drop out", they all supported LD (as did many smaller companies). And I'd be surprised if either format ever develops much more beyond the niche format that LD was. We represent the minority, to most people DVDs are "good enough".

I agree to an extent, but we have to remember that the studios can obsolete DVD's little by little until people have no choice but to buy HD movies. Besides, while I agree that people are price sensitive, I don't think we need to have current DVD pricing for people to "buy in" as it were. I think prices in the $15-$20 range will spur sufficient sales given an adequate base of players in the market.

I was going to say the same thing. LD never moved into the mainstream, but that didn't make the studios "drop out", they all supported LD (as did many smaller companies). And I'd be surprised if either format ever develops much more beyond the niche format that LD was. We represent the minority, to most people DVDs are "good enough".
By 2009 hdtvs will be mainstream. Everyone will have 720p tvs. If prices were to drop by 20-30% from what they are today, people will convert.

When prices drop, is it the studio or the retailer taking the hit? The distributer is listing the MSRP, but that's not what they sell it to the retailer for, considerably less I'd imagine.

I don't buy SD in the general sense anymore, but if it's dirt cheap I'll make an exception. For the price he got that drama series at, I would have bought it (maybe not that show in particular, I've never seen it so I don't know if I'd like it). There's a point where the "hours of enjoyment per $" factor outweighs the "not wasting money on SD" factor

today i went shopping in a dutch store

i wanted foyles war a britisch drama series.

anyway i checked prices and find to my surprise that 1 season ( 4 discs ) is only 10 euro! around 12 usa dollars. and every disc is basicly a movie because 1 episode is around 90 minutes. so seeing that cheap price, i bought season 2 and 3 with it as well. 18 hours of movie for around 36 bucks!

for that price i only have 2 movies on either hd-dvd or bluray!

so hereby came to the conslusion that if i had to chose for 36 bucks. i would rather spend it on something i can enjoy for 18 hours then for 3 hours.

and the ordinary people would do the same. the format that wins this war wont be about the cheap players. it is about cheap discs. whatever format brings the prices down of the discs towards that of dvds will win this war.

Well, let me put this a kind way... your other comment - saying piracy is bad because it is the probable cause of late arrivals of your daily DRM-infected movies (NOT) - was just as irrelevant as this one is when it comes to "ordinary people". :D

I don't buy SD in the general sense anymore, but if it's dirt cheap I'll make an exception. For the price he got that drama series at, I would have bought it (maybe not that show in particular, I've never seen it so I don't know if I'd like it). There's a point where the "hours of enjoyment per $" factor outweighs the "not wasting money on SD" factor

When something is not available on HD but you want it, you buy it. When you have seen something but you want it in your HD collection, you wait for it.

I haven't bought any Criterion for more than a year now because I'm waiting for HD releases. And trust me, I couldn't care less about Criterion itself - if they are stupid enough to wait too long and keep dancing around their ridiculous "awwww, we ah waihtin' foh the wihhnnner' BS then I'm pretty sure somebody else will pick up their market future market very soon and I will start buying those discs.

SD is nasty. No more...no more. I don't care if they give them away.