Anything I should ask about besides HDMI 1.3, HDMI 1.3 and HDMI 1.3?

Let me know.

Richard

Richard,

You could ask them why thier brand new S1000 Prepro is only HMDI Video, and doesn't have HDMI Audio. What were they thinking?

Ask about plans for a HD-DVD or Blu-ray player.

HDMI is not very good for audio.

I visited their facility several years ago when I was in Connecticut on business. Patrick Bresnahan was kind enough to show me around. Came away with a Krell polo shirt too!

If you can, ask them to confirm that the S1000 will have a firmware update down the road for Dolby HD and DTS-HD. And ask if the Showcase processor platform could handle those, and if they plan to release a firmware update for it.

Thanks, and have fun.

Refugio - the reason for HDMI audio is to get Dolby HD from HD DVD and Bluray, it is the only way to do it.

HDMI is not very good for audio.
Tell me more. What are you heaing? I was told when it was first introduced that is was not good for audio.

Okay I have your questions written down. I'll be taking pictures and giving a report back to you guys about everything Krell.

Keep them coming!

Richard

Tell me more. What are you heaing? I was told when it was first introduced that is was not good for audio.

HDMI causes major jitter in the audio path.

HDMI causes major jitter in the audio path.


Just out of curiosity why is that? Is HDMI worse than SPDIF ?

I.link has the capabillities to speed up and slow down the transpot. That way a FIFO buffer could be maintained at the DAC and almost completly remove jitter issues. Does HDMI have that capabillity?

Will Krell HDMI support CEC ? I would like to controll my HD-DVD player with a krell remote !

Its been mentioned elsewhere that there is a HDMI 1.3 upgrade comming to the S1000 with a scaler/deinterlacer. What scaling/deinterlacer solution will it be based on ?

The digital audio signal is contaminated by the video signal, and vice versa. The higher data rate transfer means that the amount of RFI broadcasts by the HDMI interface is much greater than with the audio only SP/DIF interface.

The digital audio signal is contaminated by the video signal, and vice versa. The higher data rate transfer means that the amount of RFI broadcasts by the HDMI interface is much greater than with the audio only SP/DIF interface.

The first I heard about HDMI being bad for audio was from Goldmund, when I asked why their processors would not use it.

Recently, I upgraded my Mark Levinson No40 with its new HDMI input card, and there is no loss at all with the same sources compared to SPDIF.

My conclusion is that high end companies that don't have the means to rapidly implement HDMI are blowing smoke to try justify their shortcomings about it.

I have the same feeling about HDMI that there is a lost of smoke blowing.

I have some more questions to Krell I hope its not to late. I am long time Krell owner and I in the market for a new PRE/PRO. Most likely I will buy the S1000.

Is the S1000 a class A design ?
Is it fully balanced ?
Any details on the circuit topology ?
does it have a discrete output stage ?
How is the volume control implemented ?

Not too late. I'll get your answers.

Richard

I visited their facility several years ago when I was in Connecticut on business. Patrick Bresnahan was kind enough to show me around. Came away with a Krell polo shirt too!

If you can, ask them to confirm that the S1000 will have a firmware update down the road for Dolby HD and DTS-HD. And ask if the Showcase processor platform could handle those, and if they plan to release a firmware update for it.

Thanks, and have fun.


I have already spoken with Krell reps on this subject. The s1000, as cool as it is, is only a baby step for Krell to take into the world of HD pre/pro's. There WILL be a firmware upgrade to HDMI v.1.3...HOWEVER...there will ALSO have to be a hardware upgrade done to implement video transcoding (or upconversion) for all sources as it doesnt even do it from composite to s-video yet. According to Krell, the upgrade will cost you about $1000. On the lighter side of things...there are plans to introduce two upgraded models above the s1000 in the near future. The next of which we should see around fall that has that upgrade already installed. And the final version I would assume brings the S pre/pro up to a down-scaled version of the Evo 707 which seems to me would make it a 7.1 with HDMI v.1.3 with a midlevel Faroudja Video Scaler and possibly even an auto mic calibration like the EVO707. Interestingly enough, even the S1000 is equipped with a CAST output. On the back panel, there is a DB25 out that Krell has said would mate with a CAST coupler. What they HAVENT said is whether its 2-channel or Multi-channel. Krell hasnt said what the prices of the two upgrade loaded models will cost, but the S1000, as Im sure you know, carries a sticker of $6,500. Questions? Holla Back!

I have already spoken with Krell reps on this subject. The s1000, as cool as it is, is only a baby step for Krell to take into the world of HD pre/pro's. There WILL be a firmware upgrade to HDMI v.1.3...HOWEVER...there will ALSO have to be a hardware upgrade done to implement video transcoding (or upconversion) for all sources as it doesnt even do it from composite to s-video yet. According to Krell, the upgrade will cost you about $1000. On the lighter side of things...there are plans to introduce two upgraded models above the s1000 in the near future. The next of which we should see around fall that has that upgrade already installed. And the final version I would assume brings the S pre/pro up to a down-scaled version of the Evo 707 which seems to me would make it a 7.1 with HDMI v.1.3 with a midlevel Faroudja Video Scaler and possibly even an auto mic calibration like the EVO707. Interestingly enough, even the S1000 is equipped with a CAST output. On the back panel, there is a DB25 out that Krell has said would mate with a CAST coupler. What they HAVENT said is whether its 2-channel or Multi-channel. Krell hasnt said what the prices of the two upgrade loaded models will cost, but the S1000, as Im sure you know, carries a sticker of $6,500. Questions? Holla Back!
Thanks for the info. I can't imagine purchasing an S1000 without the ability to decode the HD surround formats, or at least be guarenteed that it will do it at a later date. As I have no real reason to upgrade however, I'm more interested in knowing if the Showcase can decode Dolby HD and DTS-HD with a firmware update.

The real important question is will it do HDMI audio for 8 chanel LPCM ?

The real important question is will it do HDMI audio for 8 chanel LPCM ?


Yes, HDMI will do 8 channel Linear Pulse Code Modulation. In fact, version 1.0 of HDMI will do 8 channel LPCM Audio. And trust me, it really sounds nice on those Blu Ray Discs...the 6 channel, that is. Now all we need is SOMETHING to come out thats in 8 channel! Later!

Thanks for the info. I can't imagine purchasing an S1000 without the ability to decode the HD surround formats, or at least be guarenteed that it will do it at a later date. As I have no real reason to upgrade however, I'm more interested in knowing if the Showcase can decode Dolby HD and DTS-HD with a firmware update.


No problem man! In fact, the Showcase model (IF ordered with the HDMI assembly) will only be 1.1 version and I dont believe that Krell will give you the option to purchase v.1.3 on their showcase as they intend to bridge the gap between Showcase/Standard and Evolution with the new S Series. If anyone is really serious about having the lossless audio formats Im sure that you know you can use the Multi Channel analog outputs of the Blu Ray Disc players or the HD-A1, HD-XA1 or HD-XA2 to achieve that. HOWEVER!!!...in doing so, you WILL bypass any of the preamplification done by the Krell Processor and ultimately you are degrading the quality of the sound because NOTHING in ANY of those players is as good a D/A converter as what Krell will offer. To my buddy with the quote...give it time...hang on for a few months with me and together we will embark on the 2nd or 3rd Gen S1000 together. Peace OUT!

Yes I understand that the HDMI 1.1 standard supports LPCM 8 channel audio.


My question was will the S1000 support audio over HDMI ?

I saw that it was refered to a HDMI module for the ShowCase ! Is that true? Will it support audio or only switch video?

Yes I understand that the HDMI 1.1 standard supports LPCM 8 channel audio.


My question was will the S1000 support audio over HDMI ?

I saw that it was refered to a HDMI module for the ShowCase ! Is that true? Will it support audio or only switch video?

To answer your question directly, Carl, the HDMI in the current S1000 does not support any audio whatsoever...just video. And yes, the Showcase CAN be ordered with an HDMI module that also supports ONLY video. Now, it is something that Krell doesnt stock so it has to be special ordered and will cost you about $1000 to be put into the Showcase chassis. If youre looking for HDMI audio right now in a Krell pre/pro, you might as well triple your budget and fork out the $18,000 for the Evolution 707...hahahaha! :D Actually the other day, a friend and I sat down and listened to the Evolution 505 cd player. Holly BALLS was it TERRIBLY INCREDIBLE sounding. So transparent, so dynamic. Evolution truly is worth the prices. Evolution...the Five Figure Audio of the world. Have a great day!

The S1000 will have an HDMI 1.3 upgrade, same as is going in the EVO707 (which is an INCREDIBLE piece). Pricing for the upgrade is not fixed yet.

And yes you will have to send in the piece because it will require a different board, but it might be worth the upgrade.

I'll post tomorrow with pictures and some things I got out of the training in terms of how Krell does audio.

Also, they had to clean my drool from the Master REference Sub (MRS). The thing just rocks.
Richard

Well I'm back. And I saw some really cool stuff. Once I can get the pics on my hard drive I'll load them up with a bigger post tomorrow. Including the new speakers made from aluminum which will retail for aboutr $45,000. They were trying to get them ready for our class but no dice. They'll debut at the Expo this weekend.

And yes we are an authorized dealer for those of you who Pmed me.

Richard

I am eagerly looking forward to the pictures from Krell and more information about their upcomming products.

BR

AVS Power Buy on the Evolution 707....? :p

Well I'm back. And I saw some really cool stuff. Once I can get the pics on my hard drive I'll load them up with a bigger post tomorrow. Including the new speakers made from aluminum which will retail for aboutr $45,000. They were trying to get them ready for our class but no dice. They'll debut at the Expo this weekend.

And yes we are an authorized dealer for those of you who Pmed me.

Richard
Waiting for pics...... ;)

What happened to this thread I was kind of expecting some kind of report with a couple of sexy pictures !!!!

Robert,

Did I read that right? There's an HDMI card for the 40????!!!! Video in and out? Heaven forbid. I thought I had a 30000 dollar white elephant. How much was it? There hasn't been a damn thing going on with this puppy since I purchased it. So many promises unfulfilled. The website never tells of any upgrades, I thought ML was down for the count. Sad how they just brought out their universal player and it's already useless. I'm jumping for joy if this is true.

Sorry folks to excited to do the PM thing.


Cheers,

Edward

Has Krell announced how much credit they are giving towards the S-1000 for trading in the Showcase pre/pro?

HDMI causes major jitter in the audio path.

Jim from Lumagen made a very interesting post about this. He mentioned the jitter is mainly higher because audio is forced to share a clock with video. Seperate Audio and Video HDMI outputs would likely cut jitter down quite significantly.

Jim from Lumagen made a very interesting post about this. He mentioned the jitter is mainly higher because audio is forced to share a clock with video. Seperate Audio and Video HDMI outputs would likely cut jitter down quite significantly.

But then that would defeat the purpose of HDMI in the first place right? ;)

Jim from Lumagen made a very interesting post about this. He mentioned the jitter is mainly higher because audio is forced to share a clock with video. Seperate Audio and Video HDMI outputs would likely cut jitter down quite significantly.

I have gone back and forth with the HDMI / SPDIF inputs on my Halcro and have a really hard time telling the difference. I listened to tracks I know very well but if there was a difference it was too slight to comment on. I have heard others claim how bad there HDMI sounds compared to the SPDIF input but I have to think either there is something wrong with the HDMI input or they didn't even try it and are just echoing what they heard from others. Maybe Halcro just got it right as I have spoken to 3 other Halcro owners who claim they can't tell the difference either. In fairness I think Pramrod preferred the SPDIF input to the HDMI.

Remember all of those jitter reducers for CD players from Audio Alchemy, Theta and the like? I know I tried a few out and if they did make a difference it was tiny if at all. A good dac made a much much bigger difference that you could hear.

Since most High End pre-pro's lack HDMI or are waiting for HDMI 1.3 it is understandable that they would trash it until they can announce that they now have it. Most high end products have long life cycles and most do not have the R&D or resources of say Denon who can add the latest and greatest every year.

I think it is just a matter of time before nearly all high end pre-pro's incorporate HDMI and watch out for those magic HDMI Jitter boxes...... you know that is probably a matter of time as well.

It's like the saying goes "Different strokes for different folks" If someone else can tell me what I should be hearing for to convince me that HDMI is inferior, I am all ears. :cool:

Not really. It is the only non-proprietary way to pass LPCM digitally so a Prepro can do the D/A conversion.

Most of us aren't worried about the single cable thing, but the High Res audio.

But then that would defeat the purpose of HDMI in the first place right? ;)