I've browsed through the forums and have tried to understand the whole RS-232 control idea, but the snippets I get here and there just don't explain the whole scenario. I'm very interested in this type of control because it seems like the ideal way to control the system I'm currently installing (a dedicated home theater room, plus 7-room HDTV matrix distribution system). At present, I plan to use my Harmony 890 in the theater room, and programmable IR remotes with IR pickups placed in-wall in each of the other 7 rooms. I loathe IR signals... sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. And if you have one step of a macro dropped in sending commands, you can pretty-well be assured everything will go haywire. And with HDTV distribution it'll be 100 times worse since the devices aren't in front of you to see what's on and how it's set. With this in mind....

What do I have to do to set up RS-232 in my home? Does anyone sell a "buy this box, press this button and RS-232 will be set up in your home with all of your preferences" package? Short of this, what *will* I need to buy? I assume all components need to have RS-232 ports. Fair enough. But are all RS-232 ports bi-directional, and if not, is it even useful if it isn't bi-directional? Why or why not? Does RS-232 control require some sort-of control box? How does it work, and what does it connect to? How do you program the device/devices that you want to use to control your a/v system(s)? Is the language the same? Is it fairly cookie-cutter? Can I integrate the Harmony remotes I have into this system, or will I have to buy separate remotes? What remotes are best? Are PDA's better? How do they communicate with the RS-232 devices--wireless B? And so-on.

I'm about 3 months away from our home being completed, and I really want to have everything pulled together before then. I'm an avid DIYer, but if I have to hire someone to do this it won't be the end of the world (but I'd much rather do it myself!). Any input would be greatly appreciated!

What type of equipment do you have? You need software (ie, either Girder or CQC), and cables, and if they have drivers for your stuff, you're done. If not, it might take a little more effort to create your own driver, but that's pretty straightforward.

I have basically the whole world integrated via RS232, IP, and USB. I can pull it up via any PC or $160 fujitsu 3400 that I got off eBay. I can use my PDA cellphone too.

With CQC, it's certainly more expensive than Girder ($695 vs $50), but you get a ton more out of the box, well on your way to getting it done. Still takes some legwork, but there's a huge amount of there there, and your $$ will be well spent. It's a whole-house license too, plus all drivers/etc are free, so there's no chance you can spend more than that.

Check out the site in my sig for samples.

IVB covered most all of your questions, but there IS an alternative to the PC Automation solution for RS232. Some remote vendors (right now, I'm really only aware of Universal Remote) provide a remote box that connects to your devices serially (RS232) and accepts signals from your handheld remote (usually through RF which is generally more reliable than IR) to trigger commands through the serial port to your equipment. A good example of this combo is the URC MX3000 remote and the MRC400 control unit (or whatever it's called). These aren't cheap and are "custom install" but can be bought through authorized dealers for DIY.

To add to the answers IVB gave, I'll take a stab at each one based on my understanding of RS232 (if I'm wrong, someone please correct me):

(1) No there is no "RS232 in a box" package now (or likely ever).

(2) You will need either a remote and control unit combo as I described above, OR a PC Automation solution, which besides the software and cables IVB mentioned, you'll also need the pc, serial port cards or USB converter attachments, plus some form of control device--it CAN be an IR remote (which also requires a USB-UIRT device attached to your pc to receive the IR signals to relay to your equipment), but you are still introducing the inherent issues with infrared relay across distances. A wireless or wired touchpanel is a better alternative, or even a PDA as mentioned. Also, note that obviously for the system to respond to commands, the pc will need to be on 24/7 with a fairly stable o/s (this is why many people tend to setup a separate stripped down pc for their automation/control server).

(3) Not all RS-232 ports are created equal. No, not all are bidirectional (I think). It depends on the manufacturer and how they designed the communication protocol for the equipment. However, assuming it allows at least for all needed commands to be accepted from the sending device (even without two way feedback), this would be a wired (and hence more stable) solution than IR.

(4) I think this question is mostly answered in 2 above.

(5) Each device you wish to control via RS232 is connected via a serial cable to your control device (whether it is a pc or a remote control unit). You will need a separate serial port for each device you wish to control.

(6) Programming depends upon the software or hardware you use as your RS232 controller. It also depends upon whether the manufacturer has published the protocol for communication. If it is not published and no driver exists, you may spend quite a bit of time trying to develop a driver to communicate with your equipment. If it's PC based, and as IVB said, drivers exist, you are pretty much good to go. If not, you will need to learn how to write the driver or pay someone to write it for you. If you go DIY with the URC package, then I can't speak to what is involved there, as I haven't set it up. I'm sure there is some work involved in making the MRC400 talk to each device.

(7) Cookie cutter may or may not be applicable. I believe the two big DIY HA packages that get discussed here have generic serial drivers. You may or may not get any or full functionality using them. I don't know enough about this to speak intelligently, so I'll let IVB and/or others respond.

(8) You may be able to use the Harmony remotes. I have no useful knowledge of them, so I can't tell you how they would work. Again, it goes back to (2) above. If you are using a PC based automation system and have your equipment tied to your pc and an IR sensor tied to the pc to accept the remote's ir commands, then yes, you probably could use the Harmonys. Which remote is best and are PDA's better is VERY subjective--it's what YOU feel comfortable using. That said, since you are looking for more stable control, a wired or wireless solution or an RF based remote is what I would prefer (with IR based remote coming in dead last).

So the question you need to answer: how much time do you have to configure this?

Right now, my house is just completed, I'm working on the equipment purchasing for my setup, and I own an MX3000. I'm looking at one of the DIY home automation systems, but I believe that given my work commitments, it will likely take me 3 or more months to get a system running that will provide me the control I desire using a pc based automation system (that is me, not you--you may be up and running in a week or so if you have the time, knowledge and skills to zip through it). For that reason, I'm considering trying the MRC400 as a stop-gap solution until I can get the PC H/A system completed. However, I already have an RF/IR unit (the MRF300) so I can use it for IR only in the time being and just keep my fingers crossed the signal is received!!!

IVB--I checked out your setup and that's precisely what I'm looking for (theater stuff for now--lights and other stuff *maybe* later).

Okay... so everything has to connect to either a PC or a control unit. The Harmony 890 I have is RF, so is there a way to convert the RF signal directly to something accepted by a PC? The drawback here is I'm looking for something that TELLS me what the unit the status of the components are (is the DVD player on? Is the matrix set to transmit the DVD signal tot he room) and so-on. This way someone can see what the problem may be if the signal doesn't pop up on screen.

So--does a Fujitsu 3400 allow bi-directional functionality? Does it also have IR output to turn on the TV in the respective room? If not, how do you handle that (since the control unit--a PC I assume) is maybe two floors away. Or do you send a little IR signal from something connected to the computer that emits IR signals over CAT5E to an IR blinker affixed to the TV? (I assume they make a box that can connect to the PC to generate and distribute IR signals...????).

In other words, I stand in one of the upstairs bedrooms. I want to watch a movie on the HTPC, which is in the baseent along with all of the other equipment. I have a Fujitsu 3400 in my hand, click "watch a DVD", and then.... ?? Can the PC send a list of available movies to me? Or will that have to be set up beforehand? Will the remot ein my hand tell me what is turned on and what is not? Will it turn on the TV in the room? Etc., Etc.

I, too, have numerous commitments that will make this a bit difficult for me. However, I do love to tinker. I have numerous old PC's from P-III's to P-IVs in different flavors, so an additonal PC wouldn't be a problem. As for the RS-232 cards, can you buy them with multiple connectors? It seems you could be seriously limited if you only have one RS-232 connector per slot.

Also... the Fujitsu is *huge*! A bit bigger than I would care to have. What about inexpensive PDAs? Are there any out there that work well with these systems in the same price range? What type of connectivity do you need to use--wireless B? G? Is there a fair amount of software available for these systems on PDAs?

Also: Equipment

I'm sitting in my office and can't list specific names, but can do so if needed tomorrow.

Denon receiver
Panasonic S77 DVD player
A Blu-Ray player I have yet to purchase
A Da-Lite Electric Projection Screen
A JVC-RS1 projector I have yet to purchase
A home theater PC I have yet to build
Dish Netowrk set top boxes for satellite (I will have 5 total HD boxes and one HD PVR)
A matrix distribution box I have yet to purchase

As you can see, lots of these purchases are going to be made closer to when we move in, so input would be very helpful re: which work well with RS-232. Thanks!

which work well with RS-232

The equipment that have RS232 ports on them.

As for the RS-232 cards, can you buy them with multiple connectors?

Comtrol make a series of Rocketport cards, with multiple RS232 or RS422 ports.

If you are in one room and need to control an IR only device in another room, yes, you can run a remote IR trigger (lots of wire pulling) OR you can use a product like the Global Cache units that provide IR and serial ports over cat5 to other areas.

Targus is right--there are several makers of cards that have multiple serial ports on a single pc card.

"Click to watch dvd" is very possible with a number of scenarios. A system like IVB's should be more than capable of displaying for you a screen of movie thumbnails, from which you can select the movie and run a macro to play it wherever you want--den, bedroom, theater, whatever. You will need to configure the software to do this. Depending on the control nature of your equipment (RS232 bidirectional vs. one-way vs. IR) you may or may not know the status of your equipment, but certainly it IS possible to do.

Before making any equipment purchases, I would download the user manual and read about the product's RS232 capabilities. This will give you an idea of what you're getting. Your PC and Projector shouldn't be an issue. The Denon depends on the model, I have no knowledge of the DISH boxes, and to my knowledge (which is admittedly limited), I did not think any of the existing blu-ray players had RS232 (it was something I was looking for when I was perusing them a month or two ago--new players may have them now). Research the rest before you buy and you should be ok.

On your pda question, the pda's run client versions of the home automation software. So in a CQC example (the software IVB runs), you would have CQC main server on the pc with the RS232 ports connected to your equipment, and your pda would be running the CQC client server (looking like a mini-touchpanel) to talk to the main server and send commands. I am not aware of other software for the pda that does similar things, but then I'm no expert.

Can't answer any of the other questions--outside my knowledge area.

Now I would suggest that you spend a lot of quality time in the home automation section of the forum reading up on CQC and the other automation products, since that appears to be the path you are heading. There is a wealth of information in those threads and you will probably find more answers than you had questions!!

I believe all your questions got answered, here's some I think may not have. Let me know if I was wrong.

Okay... so everything has to connect to either a PC or a control unit. The Harmony 890 I have is RF, so is there a way to convert the RF signal directly to something accepted by a PC?
IIRC, the 890 has an RF-IR converter/base station, right? In that case you could use a USB-UIRT. That's what I do with my MX850 RF/IR remote.


The drawback here is I'm looking for something that TELLS me what the unit the status of the components are (is the DVD player on? Is the matrix set to transmit the DVD signal tot he room) and so-on. This way someone can see what the problem may be if the signal doesn't pop up on screen.

Yep, that's the whole point of RS232, and why I got into it in the first place. Got sick of playing the "guess why there's no sound audible" game (speakers muted? volume down? Wrong source?).


So--does a Fujitsu 3400 allow bi-directional functionality?
Yeah, just runs the CQC viewer which paints the status as above, sends commands as desired. Thats exactly what my screens do.

BTW, I also have PDA screens on that site. There's DVD, lighting, security. I primarily use it for "out-of-house" control, no reason I couldn't use it in-house except I think that screen is too small :)

Thanks, guys. I didn't even think to look in the "home automation" area, and hope I didn't waste too much of everyone's time. I did write to the guys at CQC, and I don't think I understood anything in their response. Do they speak English? <grin>

It's obvious I have a lot to do to climb this steep learning curve. Thanks again for all of your input!

FYI - educating folks on this is exactly what I do in those "Introduction to Home Automation" webinars.

Here's the powerpoint for the first 30mins of it (http://www.myhometheaterpc.com/downloads/Intro_To_HA.pdf). The rest is spent on demonstrating how to actually get your computer to talk to a device that was connected by RS232/USB/IP, how to paint the screen, and how to do automated logic in response to an external event. (ie, when your security system is set to ArmedAway mode, turn off all the lights/stereos/HVAC).