In TV's worst spring in recent memory, a startling number of Americans drifted away from television the past two months: More than 2.5 million fewer people were watching ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox than at the same time last year, statistics show.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/05/09/tv.missingviewers.ap/index.html

Now almost 5 years with an HDTV and I still think the overall product looks like crap. Dynamic audio compression and 4:3 picture of commercials absolutely ruin the network viewing experience. Picture quality is horrible on networks due to splitting of bandwidth for subchannels. The debates rage on, but the facts speak for themselves. Fewer and fewer people find the overall product the networks are putting out worth their time. Networks are not just competing against other networks or cable channels. They are competing with everything else people do in their spare time. Way too many other entertainment options that are more appealing.

In TV's worst spring in recent memory, a startling number of Americans drifted away from television the past two months: More than 2.5 million fewer people were watching ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox than at the same time last year, statistics show.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/05/09/tv.missingviewers.ap/index.html

Now almost 5 years with an HDTV and I still think the overall product looks like crap. Dynamic audio compression and 4:3 picture of commercials absolutely ruin the network viewing experience. Picture quality is horrible on networks due to splitting of bandwidth for subchannels. The debates rage on, but the facts speak for themselves. Fewer and fewer people find the overall product the networks are putting out worth their time. Networks are not just competing against other networks or cable channels. They are competing with everything else people do in their spare time. Way too many other entertainment options that are more appealing.

All my networks - except PBS - look great; I'm on Cablevision, CT, with cablecard. And who cares if a commercial is 4:3? Come on, it's the programming that counts.

Not many shows worth watching and then when they cancel shows after a few airings, people get disgruntled and just stop watching all together.

^^^^^^^

Or they constantly move the air time so that I never know when the next episode of the shows I like are going to air. After missing a couple of episodes I just lose interest and stop watching.

^^^^^^^

Or they constantly move the air time so that I never know when the next episode of the shows I like are going to air. After missing a couple of episodes I just lose interest and stop watching.

Actually, the DVR solves that problem nicely. It always finds them no matter where and when they hide and there they are, patiently waiting for me like good little shows. I pay very little attention to the day a show actually airs; some of my season passes, I really couldn't tell you.

I can't imagine what life was like in the bad ol' days before the DVR. I tells, ya', it's right up there with sliced bread. :)

Actually, the DVR solves that problem nicely. It always finds them no matter where and when they hide and there they are, patiently waiting for me like good little shows. I pay very little attention to the day a show actually airs; some of my season passes, I really couldn't tell you.

I can't imagine what life was like in the bad ol' days before the DVR. I tells, ya', it's right up there with sliced bread. :)
Exactly! That’s why God invented TiVo. :) That way you can use sophisticated search software to find and record programs from among the 200 channels or so it’s impossible to look at one at a time.

So how many programs do you need?

One a night? Two? Five?

Between the five networks (and sorry for your pain, but the OTA signal in LA for all of them, plus a pair of PBS stations, is superb) and a handful of cable networks in HD, if you can't find 15 hours a week that measure up to your standards of good television, I really feel sorry for you.

A number of TV critics, including Tom Shales of the Washington Post, Maureen Ryan of the Chicago Tribune, Aaron Barnhart of the Kansas City Star and Tim Goodman of the San Francisco Chroncile all believe we are now in the golden age of TV drama.

It is too bad you don't agree, RaymondR.

Much the the ratings decline -- perhaps even all of it --- is DVR inspired. When Nielsen ratings which include a week's DVR viewing are compared with last year (which didn't include DVR viewing past the first few hours) the numbers are pretty static.

But obviously people have more choices.

And many of them will find something else to do. Internet, gaming, DVDs, whatever. And there are six English language networks along with three Spanish-language networks all vying for the attention that 30 years ago was shared by just three.

Add ESPN, regional sports networks which now routinely broadcast every local game (as opposed to very few 20 years ago) and the options are myriad.

No matter what they put on, the networks couldn't possibly stay at the 90 shares they commanded in the 1970s.

(And it is funny how that CNN story doesn't make mention of how its own viewership has tanked in the last decade.)

...Way too many other entertainment options that are more appealing.
I don’t know where the viewers went. In my house- we’re still watching. ;)

Regarding the Tivo/DVR, it is defiantly one of the best devices to come along since the cell phone. My problem is I just haven’t had the guts to make the external drive plunge. I never have enough “space” to record or set up future recordings. I’m almost always nearing the max out point and that’s with diligent viewing and deletions. (Two sporting events on at the same time can eat up to 7 hours)

I wish they made these rentable cable DVRs with bigger drives. I’ve gone through 6 of them since the day they came out and the last thing I want to deal with is lost recordings. Maybe when hi- def recording on discs (can’t deal with tapes) becomes main stream, I’ll get into it. Then I’ll be able to archive recordings.

(And it is funny how that CNN story doesn't make mention of how its own viewership has tanked in the last decade.)

Touche. And good point about the critical consensus as to quality.

(And it is funny how that CNN story doesn't make mention of how its own viewership has tanked in the last decade.)

That can be summed up in THREE words!

Fox News Channel

Take a look at CNN ratings 15 or so years ago (Toss in Headline News if you wish) then take a look at CURRENT combined ratings for CNN (HN too) and Fox News.

My theory is that everyone has only so many hours a week to spend on home entertainment. My threshold is probably 15-20. 4-6 hours of that is sucked up by American Idol or DWTS. Heroes, 24, and Lost take up another dedicated three hours. I'm also trying to have a Blu-Ray movie night (2.5 hours), and watching some sports(6 hours), etc., so there is less time for viewing of second tier programs like FNL or Jericho.

Some once great shows are becoming chores to watch and I may not return to them next year (DH, Smallville, and shows like that). There likely will be new shows next year that will take their place. Some of the new pilots sound like good shows, although they also sound like shows we watched within the past five years that were cancelled.

Bottom line - there are too many shows vying for too few hours, and people look for any excuse to dump a show - bad ratings, change in show runner, too long hiatuses.

FNL second tier? Surely you jest - whatever tier you think it belonged on, it was the best show on TV this season. And that's been the consensus from many critics.

But you're right - there's only so many hours in a week, and way too many good shows now, not to mention sports and DVD's. Or torrent. Or YouTube. Or the surf's up here etc.

It's probably just the impact of DVR's being counted now as fredfa said. I really don't know how they'd count my DVR watching because we wait weeks before watching a series of eps for one show sometimes. Like American Hot Rod, now that's second tier ;).

It's probably just the impact of DVR's being counted now as fredfa said. I really don't know how they'd count my DVR watching because we wait weeks before watching a series of eps for one show sometimes. Like American Hot Rod, now that's second tier ;).
I watch a lot of TV but 99% of what I watch was prerecorded on my DVR. I have a TiVo Series3 HD DVR and I suspect that most other TiVo owners watch TV the same way. It’s just a whole lot easier to search for and set up programming in advance for later recording, and then watch the recording when it’s convenient than it is to try to watch live and have to put up with commercials and promos.

fredfa,

I don't disagree that good programing can't be found on the networks. What I am saying is that networks are managing shows and not what the viewer is seeing at home. A one hour time slot is not just made up of a program and its content. It includes how commerical breaks are managed, the presentation of the commericals, content of the commericals (why is that I get the feeling that everyone has something that can be cured by a pill), and the picture quality and sound of the program itself. Networks have justified annoyances like dymanic audio compression as an effective way to provide more impact for their customers commercial. They insist that network bugs help promote their brand. They feel that the effects on picture quality by splitting bandwidth for subchannels is off set by the financial gain of offering two additional streams, but I think it is all these little annoyances that are making people disinterested in sitting down and watching TV even when programing is of the caliber it is today.

Restuarants don't only focus on the food, but that is what TV execs are doing.

I can't imagine what life was like in the bad ol' days before the DVR. I tells, ya', it's right up there with sliced bread. :)

I remember life before a DVR...and let me tell you, it was pretty bleak. You must be pretty young if you can't even imagine it ;)

I exclusively watch DVR'd shows now (don't remember the last time I watched something live, other than some NFL games). But other points people have brought up are correct. The big networks can just not expect to maintain their huge shares where there are so many channels available now, with a fair amount even providing somewhat popular shows. 5 or 6 years ago, there was no BSG, 4400, Monk, Rescue Me, Nip/Tuck, The Shield, etc to compete with them. HBO is/has been giving them a run for their money with their unique programming. Throw in Netflix, on demand and the fact that your average videogamer is now in their 30's (I believe).

Anyways, a lot more competition out there now for people's time. Plus the big networks tend to juggle the schedules a lot more (as mentioned previously...people don't know when they're on) and cancel shows after 2 or 3 episodes. Drive was canceled really quickly, but I'd bet USA or FX would have been thrilled with the numbers it was getting.

One final thought that I have...and it's because I DVR everything...I'm just not aware of new shows like I used to be, since I skip over all the commericials. Unless the commercial catches my eye as it's zipping by on Fast Forward, I never even hear of it. Probably not a huge problem since I think it's only like 17% of people have DVRs now (I think I read that somewhere, but could be wrong).

FNL second tier? Surely you jest - whatever tier you think it belonged on, it was the best show on TV this season. And that's been the consensus from many critics.


What is FNL?

What is FNL?
Friday Night Lights.

Regarding the Tivo/DVR, it is defiantly one of the best devices to come along since the cell phone. My problem is I just haven’t had the guts to make the external drive plunge. I never have enough “space” to record or set up future recordings. I’m almost always nearing the max out point and that’s with diligent viewing and deletions. (Two sporting events on at the same time can eat up to 7 hours)


Time to jump in the deep end, Larry. I've "seen" you lurking over on the "SA8300 & SATA" thread in the recorders Forum. ;) It's really pretty cheap & easy. PM me if you have any questions.

I currently have 2 8300's plus a 500 GB expansion drive. All totaled, that's about 3/4 of a terabyte of storage. Still not enough. :eek: If they'd just fix the firewire output on these boxes (it's a software issue), I could off-load a bunch of the HD movies I've recorded for "future" viewing to D-VHS tape, but TWC is content to essentially flip off the FCC and their mandate for working firewire for customers who request it. Amazing how they've just gotten clean away with taking that option away from us with no ramifications whatsoever.

Networks have justified annoyances like dymanic audio compression as an effective way to provide more impact for their customers commercial. Commercials are delivered with compression to the networks and stations. Normally commercials and shows are aired with the same levels as delivered. Proper use of dialnorm would resolve most of the loud commercial issue, but that's a discussion in itself.
Picture quality is horrible on networks due to splitting of bandwidth for subchannels.ABC and CBS/CW deliver 40+ Mb/s to their affiliates, and the PQ and AQ of these feeds are very good. Fox delivers an ATSC ready signal which requires no re-encoding, and the bitrates have been holding steady at around 15-16 Mb/s. Strobe lights on shows like Idol hold up well.

Stations have been a different story. While many have improved by using latest generation encoders, others have added or increased multicasting.

...I really don't know how they'd count my DVR watching because we wait weeks before watching a series of eps for one show sometimes. ...

If you don't watch a show within two weeks you don't get counted.

Remember the ratings are producd for the advertisers. If you don't see their commercials within a relatively short period of time you are considered useless to many -- if not most -- of them.

Couldn't disagree with the Original Poster more. I've only had HD for less than a year, but the quality of OTA network broadcasts is excellent - I've even been impressed with many of the HD commercials that I'm now watching (rather than DVR'ing past them since we watch most OTA in real-time).

As for programming, if this isn't the Golden Age of TV I don't know what is. Agree completely about FNL, Lost, Heroes, The Office and others being some of the finest shows out there - and that's only the network show. What about Battlestar Galactica, Nip/Tuck, The Shield, and so many other quality shows on HBO, Showtime, FX, etc.?

I watch a lot of TV but 99% of what I watch was prerecorded on my DVR. Same for me, but my primary DVR is Netflix. In order to compete for my time a new show doesn't just need to be better than what's on another channel in the same time slot, or even another channel in a different time slot. It needs to be better than tens of thousands of shows from the past 50 years that I haven't seen yet.

This is not the golden age of tv. The networks are running out of ideas. I have never been a fan of "Reality TV", yet there are numerous reality shows everywhere I look. I do agree that F/X has some of the best series out there. It's a shame they are not in HD. IMO, "My Name is Earl" on NBC in HD is about the only thing that is funny to watch.

I've found I just don't watch much television any longer. I absolutely despise reality television, which doesn't leave a lot to watch. The only shows I really watch any longer are Heroes, The Shield, Lost, The Office, and My Name Is Earl. Other than that I'm usually on the computer or playing my guitar.

Wow... I watch more TV now than ever before. There so many great shows, I have trouble keeping up with them all. I agree totally that this is the "Golden Age" of TV, including the last few years. I DVR everything, and always have something to watch:

From local stations, OTA.

Mondays: Heroes, and How I Met Your Mother
Tuesdays: Veronica Mars and Boston Legal
Wednesdays: Bones, Jericho and Medium
Thursdays: Smallville, Supernatural and Greys Anatomy
Sundays: Cold Case

In addition I've been getting Battlestar Galactica, Eureka, Dresden Files, Stargate SG1 & Atlantis from iTunes.

I use Netflix to catch up on past shows, most recently Six Feet Under and Doctor Who (current series).

I know there are many other great shows that I just never had time to start watching, like Lost, 24, Scrubs, Office and more.

I don't understand how anyone can complain there's nothing good on TV anymore......

This is not the golden age of tv.

I don't know about that, but I do think this is as good as it's ever gonna get for network tv.

With everybody DVR-ing and skipping through commercials, I expect to see more and more product placement and subliminal advertising shoved into shows to the point of making an educated viewer nauseous.

The pay channels like HBO and Showtime will only get better though.

Before HDTV, I watched almost nothing but cable shows on the Discovery Channel, the History Channel and so on. I had no interest in Melrose Place, Friends, Rosanne, Beverly Hills 90210 and all the other shows people were watching. I assumed 99% of network TV was garbage made for idiots.

After I got HDTV (for sports) I discovered that only 75% of network television was garbage and the last 25% was actually pretty good. I had never heard of Alias, 24, Law and Order, CSI, or any of the other shows people were watching. I'm glad HDTV came around so I wouldn't miss Lost, FNL, or some of the other great shows that have shown up recently.

If you don't watch a show within two weeks you don't get counted.

Remember the ratings are producd for the advertisers. If you don't see their commercials within a relatively short period of time you are considered useless to many -- if not most -- of them.In that case...I'm useless and proud of it! ;) Sounds like all of the Nielson families should be given Tivos/PVRs/DVRs and a new viewership measuring system be implemented that takes into account how families watch TV using timeslip nowadays in the 21st century like many of us do! We rarely watch TV in real-time anymore often delaying 20-30 minutes so can skip commercials, or watching it later the same day, or the next day or during the next week at our leisure. I'm sure many here do the same.

Although we watch as much TV as ever, we're now down to 1 major network show a week(after giving up on Heroes). Hopefully HBO and showtime will increase their number of series since they're usually higher quality.
It is true that we may be missing a good show by skipping all the commercials but it usually leaks through(just caught a promo that Eureka will be back in June - but, again, that's not a major network show.

In that case...I'm useless and proud of it! ;) Sounds like all of the Nielson families should be given Tivos/PVRs/DVRs and a new viewership measuring system be implemented that takes into account how families watch TV using timeslip nowadays in the 21st century like many of us do! We rarely watch TV in real-time anymore often delaying 20-30 minutes so can skip commercials, or watching it later the same day, or the next day or during the next week at our leisure. I'm sure many here do the same.


No offense, WaldforfSalad, but isn't this argument similar to saying (any) election is rigged because the candidate you voted for lost?

As for DVRs, any viewing by 3 AM the next morning is counted in the overnights, with viewing in the following two weeks counted in the final numbers.

And although I would expect that a very high percentage of AVS HDTV Forum members have DVRs, we can't really extrapolate from that because the national percentage is still, according to a number of sources, still below 20%. Nielsen puts it at 17.2 per cent.

These figures give an idea of how the viewership has slipped since May of 2006:

May Sweeps Ratings
http://pifeedback.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/67210983/m/99110984
FOX Widens Lead After Two Full Weeks of the May Sweep

(Compiled by dumont) at Marc Berman’s Programming Insider blog:

2007 Adult 18-49 vs first 14 nights 2006 A18-49
(results weighted for extra hour on Sundays)

1. FOX 3.9 vs 4.4 (-11%)
2. ABC 3.5 vs 3.1 (+13%)
3. CBS 3.1 vs 3.7 (-16%)
4. NBC 2.4 vs 3.1 (-23%)
5. CW 1.3 vs. 1.3 (even to The WB)
6. MNT 0.4 vs 1.2 (-67% from UPN, first 13 nights only)
TOTAL 6 NETS: 14.1 vs. 16.8 (-16%)

2007 Households vs first 14 nights 2006 Households
(results weighted for extra hour on Sundays)

1. CBS 7.2 vs 8.4 (-14%)
2. ABC 6.7 vs 5.5 (+22%)
3. FOX 6.2 vs 6.6 (-6%)
4. NBC 4.7 vs 6.1 (-23%)
5. CW 2.0 vs. 2.1 (-5% from The WB)
6. MNT 0.6 vs 2.0 (-70% from UPN; first 13 nights only)
TOTAL 6 NETS: 26.9 vs. 30.5 (-12%)

FOX solidified its hold on first place and now leads ABC by 0.4 in A18-49 after two full weeks of the May Sweep. In households, CBS continues to hold a 0.5HH lead over ABC and FOX is 0.8HH behind in third place.

ABC continues to be the only broadcast network to show year-over-year improvement in both A18-49 (up 13%) and Households (up 22%) after two full weeks of the May Sweep, with the older-skewing Dancing With the Stars accounting for much of the higher increase in Households over the A18-49 demographic.

http://pifeedback.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63310451/m/65510705?r=62710805#62710805

Viewers DL now. no commercials to ff through, ya get hd on your computer, some eps gets leaked early and once the season is done you can make your own dvd set. It doesnt count toward the precious numbers and thats why companies see a decline.

I watch tv looking for another Mac commercial, those things are great LMAOD

So you are saying 12%-16% of the last year's households (four million plus) are downloading shows from the internet, burning their own DVDs and watching them, lacombo?

You are joking, right?

A number of TV critics, including Tom Shales of the Washington Post, Maureen Ryan of the Chicago Tribune, Aaron Barnhart of the Kansas City Star and Tim Goodman of the San Francisco Chroncile all believe we are now in the golden age of TV drama. They must be on crack :rolleyes:

I wonder what part basic statistics play in all of this. If I understand it right, Nielsen directly monitors 5100 households, plus another 20 thousand or so in surveys performed mostly in big markets (NYC, LA, etc). I wonder if this method is just plain insuffucient in todays age of DVR, downloads, etc. Maybe people's viewing habits are just so diverse that Nielsen's coverage method need to be drastically changed.

Didn't House retain nearly 100% of it's Idol lead-in on Tuesday?

Maybe if all TV was as good as House we'd be watching.

Didn't House retain nearly 100% of it's Idol lead-in on Tuesday?

Maybe if all TV was as good as House we'd be watching.

If all TV were that good, no show would get decent ratings since every show would be fracturing the audience into even smaller groups. Simply put, if every show was at the level of a big hit, there wouldn't be any big hits.

Can you image the hit ABC or CBS would take if RFD-TV had shows on the level of House?

They must be on crack :rolleyes:

Always with an upbeat comment, vurbano! :)

Always with an upbeat comment, vurbano! :)
Yeah, but this is the second time in my life I've agreed with him. I can't remember the first, though. I must be blocking it out. ;)

Didn't House retain nearly 100% of it's Idol lead-in on Tuesday?

Maybe if all TV was as good as House we'd be watching.

It retained 96% of the 18-49 demo audience, yes. (In the fast nationals it was 100%, but that was updated late yesterday with the "final" fast national numbers.)

So you are saying 12%-16% of the last year's households (four million plus) are downloading shows from the internet, burning their own DVDs and watching them, lacombo?

You are joking, right?

dont see why not. you have torrents, p2p, newsgroups, IM, ftp etc. Def have over 4m people with highspeed connections. Even the stations are putting the eps on their sites, do they count?

how do the ratings count how many people are watching per set? Also not everyone has or uses dvr. I still have a vcr, does it track the recording?

Mon - 24 and Heroes (tape/dl 1, watch the other)
tues - V Mars and The Unit "

As a matter of fact, my cousin is out of town and I've been going to his house to put the shows on dvd from his box so it wouldnt fill up. how is that counted?

Actually, the DVR solves that problem nicely. It always finds them no matter where and when they hide and there they are, patiently waiting for me like good little shows. I pay very little attention to the day a show actually airs; some of my season passes, I really couldn't tell you.

I can't imagine what life was like in the bad ol' days before the DVR. I tells, ya', it's right up there with sliced bread. :)


I can I still use a VCR until next week so I will have a DVR to record season finale of Lost in HD from 9-11 because American Idol (AI) is 8-10. I watch a lot of tv. I watch 9.5 hours from broadcast consistently every week.
Mon: How I met your mother, Heroes (I would have watched Drive also)
Tues: AI
Wed: Bones, AI, Lost, Medium (tape it)
Thur: Scrubs, Smallville, Supernatural (I tape the CW shows other people in the house watch other things)
Fri: Numb3rs

I watch a lot more but it's on cable.

A lot of the shows I really like have been cancelled (Surface, Threshold, Invasion, Drive, Firefly, Dark Angel, Birds of Prey, Special Unit 2, Jake 2.0, Enterprise and on cable Blade)

So you are saying 12%-16% of the last year's households (four million plus) are downloading shows from the internet, burning their own DVDs and watching them, lacombo?

You are joking, right?
No, just too inexperenced to know any better.

How is this even a surprise? New shows that people dedicate themselves to get cancelled before they're even given a fair chance. The ones that are given a fair shot are rarely renewed for another season in favor of something that brings in worse ratings than the prior show was getting.

People are disgruntled with television. Anger at the networks is higher than ever, so it only makes sense that viewership is lower. Maybe if the networks were capable of looking at big picture and keeping people happy rather than basing 99.999% of their decisions strictly on numbers they can pitch to advertisers things would be different. As it is, they're more than willing to piss people off in favor of a few extra bucks, sacrificing the long-term for the short-term. Well, the long-term is here now and they're getting their just desserts.

I agree with the other examples given but I also think there is another thing that is alienating viewers.... shows that start/end 1 minute early/late. This is terribly annoying and really makes me question viewing that show again.

I also don't like how they stalk pile shows on certain nights. I have 2 DVR's and I still miss shows. Thursdays and Mondays are loaded. I often times miss a show I want to watch simply because there is too much other stuff on at the same time. Yet on other days I don't have to use my DVR at all.

I actually like how ABC reairs Greys on Friday. If it didn't I would miss even more shows. I would actually applaud the networks for airing there big guns multiple times a week.

Despite having a DVD burner,a VCR AND a two tuner DVR,you know what I do when there is more then two shoes on I want to check out at the same time?

I record NEITHER of them and watch a DVD or a show that I currently have recorded.

I agree with the other examples given but I also think there is another thing that is alienating viewers.... shows that start/end 1 minute early/late. This is terribly annoying and really makes me question viewing that show again.

I also don't like how they stalk pile shows on certain nights. I have 2 DVR's and I still miss shows. Thursdays and Mondays are loaded. I often times miss a show I want to watch simply because there is too much other stuff on at the same time. Yet on other days I don't have to use my DVR at all.

I actually like how ABC reairs Greys on Friday. If it didn't I would miss even more shows. I would actually applaud the networks for airing there big guns multiple times a week.Sometimes even 2-3 minutes early. Shows that start/end 1-2 minutes early/late do make it more difficult to Tivo other shows as well. Anyone know why they have shows start 1-2 minutes early? Is it to alienate Tivo owners? ;)

I almost forgot one thing that I have seen a lot lately that I find insanely annoying.... when they say something like "Stay tuned. More Scrubs after the break" only to go straight into the end credits.

I almost forgot one thing that I have seen a lot lately that I find insanely annoying.... when they say something like "Stay tuned. More Scrubs after the break" only to go straight into the end credits.
LOL, It also happens on My Name is Earl. Must only happen with NBC shows.

Strangely, with Heroes there actually is more after the break.

Strangely, with Heroes there actually is more after the break.

Same with "Lost." Because these show have developed a reputation for must-tune-in-next-time-or-I'll-die cliffhangers, which definitely keep the viewers tuned in. Remember when sitcoms would have a 30 sec. tag/skit to run while the credits were rolling below? Gosh, it seemed like it was ages ago when in fact this was a common practice just a few years back. But the networks are so desperate to keep viewers from tuning out that now, instead of that 30 sec. skit to go with the credits we used to have, we get bombarded by another round of the same promos we've seen already during the show (or skipped with DVR). Is it any wonder people with DVR's are thankful to their Gods (Greek, Roman, Arab, technological or whatever) that this invention has freed them from being subjected to this moronic overkill of promos/commercials that out fathers were too lazy to get off the counch to turn the channel and avoid? :cool: :(

I actually like how ABC reairs Greys on Friday. If it didn't I would miss even more shows. I would actually applaud the networks for airing there big guns multiple times a week.
I appreciate that, too. For a long time only HBO and Showtime could be relied on to rerun an episode of a show soon after its first showing but ABC is pretty good about doing that these days.

Funny how just a few years ago in this forum how HD owners swore that more HD programming by the networks would lead to higher viewership.

THAT certainly hasn't happened.

Funny how just a few years ago in this forum how HD owners swore that more HD programming by the networks would lead to higher viewership.

THAT certainly hasn't happened.Speaking of which, how is Nielsen doing in its efforts to count the viewers who are watching the HD/DT stations as opposed to the analog/SD versions?

So you are saying 12%-16% of the last year's households (four million plus) are downloading shows from the internet, burning their own DVDs and watching them, lacombo?

You are joking, right?


I doubt that many people download but after reading some other threads about shows that have been cancelled people are saying that they are going to put new shows into their DVR and not watch them unless the ratings are good enough for the show to stay around for at least a season, maybe a large part of that 12%-16% already do this. So then I could see 500,000-1,000,000 people downloading.

Sometimes even 2-3 minutes early. Shows that start/end 1-2 minutes early/late do make it more difficult to Tivo other shows as well. Anyone know why they have shows start 1-2 minutes early? Is it to alienate Tivo owners? ;)

It's to keep you tuned in to that station since shows on the other networks will already have started. Alienating and annoying DVR owners is just a bonus. ;)