I read on dbstalk that according to D*'s webcast today, there will be no price increase for the additional HD. The $10.99 HD access fee covers it.

If true, this is terrific news.

That can't be right. Maybe no the first few channels, but I can't picture dozens of new hd nationals being free.

But it can be right.

To quote directly: "...essentially we have a $10 price on the (HD) package and we don't have any plans to change that."

(The ground rules for the webcast were that no DirecTV official could be identified directly. But only the top guys were there with Chase Carey doing most of the talking.)

To quote directly: "...essentially we have a $10 price on the (HD) package and we don't have any plans to change that."

That doesn't mean that tomorrow D* can't say: "We now have a plan to change that"...

~Dan

Perhaps you might want to listen to what you are so cynical about, Dan.

Of course it is possible that DirecTV officials would deliberately try to mislead analysts. (Although you might want to cite just one example of such.)

And you didn't hear what was said to support the statement: among other things that basically that DirecTV will incur very little cost in providing the HD channels, so why charge HD customers extra for them?

And that keeping high revenue HD customers is the highest priority for DirecTV.

DirecTV only has until the first MPEG4 national HD channels go live for me to keep my HD package. I am currently paying for the HD package which consists of HDLite channels. I won't be paying extra for MPEG4 HDLite channels, nor will I invest in the required equipment to receive the MPEG4 channels if they continue with reduced bit rate and resolutions. I'm not a sports addict so I should be able to get my HD fix with HD-DVD or Blu-Ray source material. I realize that I'm in the minority with this position, but to me HDTV is all about the quality of the picture and sound, not about the quantity of channels.

Hey, I'd love it if it were true. But they just launched two satellites to add all those channels, how in the world can their not be a cost increase?

I know they just had a slight price increase for basic service... maybe that's how they were funded?

Regardless, if they're free that's incredible. Hell even if they were hdlite it'd still be an improvement. Tough to complain about hdlite if it's free. Hopefully it won't be though. :)

Well, DirecTV's officials made the rather emphatic and no wiggle room reply to a direct question from a Wall Street analyst yesterday, joe.

(According to the webcast groundrules, the specific DirecTV speaker was not to be identified in any press accounts, but Phillip Swann ignored that and so if you care to find out who actually said it go to tvpredictions.com.)

My point here is that Wall Street would have been happy had DirecTV announced a price hike for HD -- the more money going to the bottom line the better. But DirecTV was very specific -- no price hikes for the HD package.

Now how many of the new channels end up in the basic package is another question -- which was not asked, by the way.

No price hikes for their HD package, but what about everything else they offer? I'm sure they'll up the price of their packages one way or another, because with Directv, I've learned nothing is ever free.

I'm curious about the use of the word "essentially"... Could be the way around an increase is... Yes, the $10.99 package would stay the same... BUT they would introduce a new package at a higher price that contains additional channels.

I expect the future of HD to have more tiers at different prices until such point as HD completely replaces SD... then we'd be back to "standard" tiers again.

So DirecTV could be telling the truth AND still raise prices for new HD. Personally, I would expect them to have to do something in the way of charging more, and folks shouldn't get mad at that if they get all those channels.

That doesn't mean that tomorrow D* can't say: "We now have a plan to change that"...

~Dan
so true

DirecTV only has until the first MPEG4 national HD channels go live for me to keep my HD package. I am currently paying for the HD package which consists of HDLite channels. I won't be paying extra for MPEG4 HDLite channels, nor will I invest in the required equipment to receive the MPEG4 channels if they continue with reduced bit rate and resolutions. I'm not a sports addict so I should be able to get my HD fix with HD-DVD or Blu-Ray source material. I realize that I'm in the minority with this position, but to me HDTV is all about the quality of the picture and sound, not about the quantity of channels.
You are not alone.

I have Comcast cable as an option and I'm lining up right behind vurbano and stephenC.
And if anybody doesn't think that sooner or later, D* subs will be paying directly and specifically more for the new HD, I've got a bridge..........

I'm about to go check the dstalk thread, but did D* first say that HDTivo to HD-DVR swaps would be free?

Perhaps people should listen to what the DirecTV officials said before being so blindly, arrogantly and cynically sure that they know better.

Over the course of the 40-plus minute presentation there were many reasons given for keeping the package at $10 -- reasons that make quite a lot of business sense.

But why listen and try to understand what the business plan is when it is so much easier to pontificate based on little or no knowledge of what was said?

In fact maybe DirecTV WILL raise prices. Its average sub pays about $5 more a month than the average Dish sub. But based on what was said, reiterated and explained in detail yesterday, the HD package will not have a price hike.

I'm about to go check the dstalk thread, but did D* first say that HDTivo to HD-DVR swaps would be free?

Yes, and as far as I know the swap was free - with one added benefit: DirecTV rarely actually took the TiVos.

They left them with the customers.

(They still work for almost all DirecTV channels, and even after the MPEG-4 switch will work to get OTA signals if that is an option for you.)

Yes, and as far as I know the swap was free - with one added benefit: DirecTV rarely actually took the TiVos.

They left them with the customers.

(They still work for almost all DirecTV channels, and even after the MPEG-4 switch will work to get OTA signals if that is an option for you.)
Is it still free? I thought they were charging $199-299 for upgrades. The best I could do was $199 to replace my 2 HDTivo's.

It sounds like everyone wants a price hike...

If they are saying it's going to be 10.99, then just live with it.

Don't get mad you aren't going to pay more. If you want to pay more, you can pay my bill if you'd like ;)

But why listen and try to understand what the business plan is when it is so much easier to pontificate based on little or no knowledge of what was said?
I confess, I'm guilty, I didn't read the business plan before pontificating. But for the past 5 years I've seen a steady deterioration in D* HD PQ. At the same time for the past 5 years, across the board, D* execs have been "blindly, arrogantly and cynically" (to borrow a phrase from fred) in total denial about HD Lite.

Therefore, I'm valiantly searching for some reason to believe anything they say! Can somebody say something, anything to this NFL and HD nut to help a bad case of cynicism based on experience on my part?

The base HD will be 10.99 a month, but the HD plus package will be 4.99 extra a month. :}

:D

Hilarious, this is so typically Carey, I swear, the guy was born to be a company interface to Wall Street. Could the guy be any more confusing? :p

Will DIRECTV Charge More For Its Expanded HD Lineup?

"I think in terms of pricing, it is probably -- essentially, we’ve got a $10 price to the package and we don’t have plans to change that. So from a pricing perspective, the addition of the channels is not going to change what we do today with the product." -- Carey.



If you've ever listened to him live, there are quite often times where you think "what the heck did he just say?". You get the impression that his thoughts are not always in sync with what's coming out of mouth. :D

Is it still free? I thought they were charging $199-299 for upgrades. The best I could do was $199 to replace my 2 HDTivo's.


$199 each or $199 total?

At the beginning the free trade was only for one unit with a second offered for $299 (although plenty of "incentives" were usually available.)

The business plan behind the HD pricing is apparently this:

DirecTV's plan to satisfy its best customers. Those is the ones who have DVR, HD and HD DVRs and subscribe to the sports packages, etc.

Already the average DirecTV customer spends about $10 more than the average Dish subscriber. (Which, with the NFL ST and MLB EI packages is not hard to understand.)

But DirecTV officials say they know that keeping those high paying subs happy is of utmost importance, and they have to give the impressions the customers are being well treated. (They also say adding the HD versions of current SD channels is not much of an incremental cost.)

Hence the "free" added channels. If the channels are not really costing DirecTV much, why not "give" them to their best customers and thus get a perceived sense of value received?

Down the road I would expect there to be some sort of extra tier or price hike. But not until well after DirecTV makes its major HD push this fall and Christmas.

But it can be right.

To quote directly: "...essentially we have a $10 price on the (HD) package and we don't have any plans to change that."

(The ground rules for the webcast were that no DirecTV official could be identified directly. But only the top guys were there with Chase Carey doing most of the talking.)

Didnt you leave out a very important word????


"I think in terms of pricing, it is probably -- essentially, we’ve got a $10 price to the package and we don’t have plans to change that. So from a pricing perspective, the addition of the channels is not going to change what we do today with the product."

There is only one reason to put that word in the sentence.

$199 each or $199 total?

At the beginning the free trade was only for one unit with a second offered for $299 (although plenty of "incentives" were usually available.)

my "trade" was free too, even though they let me keep my hd tivo.

I really want to sell my hdtivo now while it still has some value, but the best they'll do on a second hd dvr is $299... so it'd kind of be a wash.

Still. After using the new DVR I kind of get mad at how slow the hd tivo is. maybe I should just do it.

original posted by vurbano
Didnt you leave out a very important word????

"I think in terms of pricing, it is probably -- essentially, we’ve got a $10 price to the package and we don’t have plans to change that. So from a pricing perspective, the addition of the channels is not going to change what we do today with the product."

There is only one reason to put that word in the sentence.


One reason if you believe DirecTV is inherently evil and trying to lie to you, or, perhaps, if the answer had been scripted.

But there is another reason if you have ever heard him speak in public. He stumbles and meanders. A lot. This was not scripted, it was a specific answer to an analyst's specific question.

What was left out were several instances of him saying keeping the high-end customers happy was a major priority -- and holding the line on the HD package is seen as a way to do that.

In addition, I would assume (but don't know for a fact) that since DirecTV has been the charter sign up for many of these HD networks, apparently the incremnental cost, at least to start, is almost nothing.

The lack of any real extra costs to DirecTV WAS mentioned -- several times.

Didnt you leave out a very important word????


"I think in terms of pricing, it is probably -- essentially, we’ve got a $10 price to the package and we don’t have plans to change that. So from a pricing perspective, the addition of the channels is not going to change what we do today with the product."

There is only one reason to put that word in the sentence.
Another important part of that statement is the portion where he says,

"the addition of the channels is not going to change what we do today with the product"

"today" means today to me, who knows what they will do "tomorrow"(metaphorically speaking) or months down the road when the channels actually come online. I agree that it makes some sense that they won't due to the fact that the contract cost for those channels is probably minimal and incidental to the cost of the SD as whole, but as I noted in my above post, with Chase Carey it is sometimes very difficult to understand exactly what he means.

I read what he said to mean, 'Today, they have no plans to change the price", of course "today" doesn't have anything to do with the question that was asked. That's why I said above, the man is a master at giving some of the most indirect and confusing answers to simple, direct questions. He's a pro when it comes to talking to Wall Street, answer their questions, but don't tell them anything. :p

But there is another reason if you have ever heard him speak in public. He stumbles and meanders. A lot.
That's a fact, and I'm almost certain that part of that is by design. :D

So I'm clear, is the upgrade to the D* DVR free or not?

Also, is the current D* DVR the one that will be used for the foreseeable future, was there any mention of newer equipment?

$199 each or $199 total?

At the beginning the free trade was only for one unit with a second offered for $299 (although plenty of "incentives" were usually available.)
$199 total. That was after I was first given an "A-list customer" price of $400 for both.

So I'm clear, is the upgrade to the D* DVR free or not?

Also, is the current D* DVR the one that will be used for the foreseeable future, was there any mention of newer equipment?

No it is not free, although some have been able to get very good deals. Myself, I was able to upgrade to 2 HR20s from my 2 HD-Tivos for $199 total, including installation of the 5LNB dish. I then sold 1 of my HD-Tivos on eBay for $305, which more than covered the cost of the upgrade. My advice would be to sell the Tivos while they still have some value.

keenan: the first is free if you have an HD TiVo. The second will cost $299 or $199 -- although a nice chat with Customer Retention will generally get you some credits.

Okay, thanks, I keep putting it off as I'm not really missing any channels yet, but a near-dead Samsung in another room may force my hand.

I'm very surprised at some of the responses in this thread. Some of you not only seem to be expecting a price increase, but also seem to be willing to pay the increase. In the cases of most of these new channels, we'll be getting HD replacements for analog channels. Why should we pay more to receive the same channels twice? From DirecTV's perspective, that might make sense, but from a consumer's perspective, being asked to pay more to receive duplicate programming is outrageous. If D* is going to charge more for new HD (hypothetically, and I am NOT arguing that they will), they should also be willing to credit our bills for the removal of the analog versions of those channels. I can see a monthly "access" fee for HD (much like the fee in place right now) but that fee should not jump just because more channels are duplicated in HD.

In short, I'm disappointed that so many of you are willing to take a price increase for something you shouldn't necessarily have to pay for. ;)

That's a fact, and I'm almost certain that part of that is by design. :D
Its probably a trait of some people when they lie. I thought chase was leaving D*?

Its probably a trait of some people when they lie. I thought chase was leaving D*?

Wow. At least there are some posters in this forum that are not afraid to speak up and stand their ground regarding DirecTV and at least question some of it's questionable practices. It is refreshing. At dbstalk.com you would already have been flamed, chastised by a moderator and then set up for all the whole gang to start in on you.

I'm very surprised at some of the responses in this thread. Some of you not only seem to be expecting a price increase, but also seem to be willing to pay the increase. .......In short, I'm disappointed that so many of you are willing to take a price increase for something you shouldn't necessarily have to pay for. ;)
From my pov, I see it as some of us are not willing to pay extra money for more HD, but don't believe D* when they say they will not increase the HD access fee.

On another note, when D* does increase their HD fees, do you think they will offer an HD basic package and that can be used as the basic programming package, ala what they have now?

Wow. At least there are some posters in this forum that are not afraid to speak up and stand their ground regarding DirecTV and at least question some of it's questionable practices. It is refreshing. At dbstalk.com you would already have been flamed, chastised by a moderator and then set up for all the whole gang to start in on you.

Welcome to the board...and I generally think that most posters on this board are willing to question some of D*'s practices.

At least for the time being, I'll take the comments at face value, as it makes business sense if D* truly wants to retain HD customers.

In the cases of most of these new channels, we'll be getting HD replacements for analog channels.


you sure about that? I didn't think they were getting rid of any older channels. Not that I care, cause if both versions were available.. obviously I'd watch the HD ones.

But even if it was a replacement. Obviously it costs more to provide a HD version of the channel due to the increased bandwidth and need for the new sattellites to begin with. It's perfectly reasonable to charge for this upgrade. That's why I'd be surprised if they didn't.

Its probably a trait of some people when they lie. I thought chase was leaving D*?
No, he's not. I had originally thought the same thing, but it's a position at News Corp he's leaving. He's staying with DirecTV.

I called a couple times for the replacement of my HD Tivo for a HR20. No one would give it to me free. The best I could do was $99. I've been a DirecTV customer since '95 with Sunday Ticket every year.

So, when do we see any new HD channels ????

But it can be right.

To quote directly: "...essentially we have a $10 price on the (HD) package and we don't have any plans to change that."

(The ground rules for the webcast were that no DirecTV official could be identified directly. But only the top guys were there with Chase Carey doing most of the talking.)
If it is $10.99 a month for HD access, as others have said, I like how he says that is 'essentially $10 for HD. No, it is essentially $11. :rolleyes: ;)

Just to clarify, DirecTV doesn't do analog channels. I think what is meant is that the SD digital channels may be replaced by their new HD format. But, I don't expect that to happen anytime soon. There are still way too many SD only subscribers. They can't pull those SD channels and replace them with the new HD ones.

If it is $10.99 a month for HD access, as others have said, I like how he says that is 'essentially $10 for HD. No, it is essentially $11. :rolleyes: ;)
My bill says $9.99 HD Access

Yes, and as far as I know the swap was free - with one added benefit: DirecTV rarely actually took the TiVos.

They left them with the customers.

(They still work for almost all DirecTV channels, and even after the MPEG-4 switch will work to get OTA signals if that is an option for you.)

My H10-250 went out on me last week (Tuner 1 was screwed). Called Directv, and they Fedex'ed my a HR20, at no cost. Told me to do whatever I wanted to do with the H10-250.

crendall i feel your pain i have 3 hd-tivos, i have been with D* since 1994 have had NBA league pass all those years and have always paid my bill on time. I have called 3 different times and they still want me to pay $199.00 to replace 1 hd-tivo. well my contracts up and verizon just offered me fios tv with over 200 channels including HD channels,fios internet and phone with free long distance for $99.00 a month with a 2 year contract. yet i'm stupidly loyal to directv, i must need a psychiatrist.

If it is $10.99 a month for HD access, as others have said, I like how he says that is 'essentially $10 for HD. No, it is essentially $11. :rolleyes: ;)
It's not $10.99, it's $9.99 and it has been for quite a while now. Just goes to show how much a lot of the people in this thread actually know about DirecTV.

So I'm clear, is the upgrade to the D* DVR free or not?

Also, is the current D* DVR the one that will be used for the foreseeable future, was there any mention of newer equipment?

Had to go thorough 4 CSR yesterday, finally ending up with retention to get my HR10 to HR20 situation resolved.

Within the course of the 4, 1 told me the "swap" of an HR10 to an HR20 is without charge. The other three confirmed no such deal. The HR20 is $299.

Now, for a little extra from Retention: apparently the story of the "swap" came about when they were running low on HR20's, but people still wanted to sign up for the HR DVR service. They were supplying HR10s, telling them that when the supply of HR20s came in, it would be a "free" swap.

Thus the urban legend was born that it is a universal "free" swap for current HR10 owners.

When I received my HD installation back in January, I was told by the tech that there would be no increase in price for the new HD channels. She said they would just start popping up in mid-late 07.

I figure D* probably hopes that they will attract more customers with their HD capacity; thus, increasing profits to pay for everything.

Had to go thorough 4 CSR yesterday, finally ending up with retention to get my HR10 to HR20 situation resolved.

Within the course of the 4, 1 told me the "swap" of an HR10 to an HR20 is without charge. The other three confirmed no such deal. The HR20 is $299.

Now, for a little extra from Retention: apparently the story of the "swap" came about when they were running low on HR20's, but people still wanted to sign up for the HR DVR service. They were supplying HR10s, telling them that when the supply of HR20s came in, it would be a "free" swap.

Thus the urban legend was born that it is a universal "free" swap for current HR10 owners.
What a mess, some get it free, some don't, and you have under-paid, improperly trained CSRs as the company's frontline with their customers, how typical. Mega-million dollar companies that operate like they're used car salesmen, amazing.

What a mess, some get it free, some don't, and you have under-paid, improperly trained CSRs as the company's frontline with their customers, how typical. Mega-million dollar companies that operate like they're used car salesmen, amazing.

I did mention to Retention that there is a lot of mis-information circulating about what D*'s policy is and it would be to their advantage to issue some type of communication that clearly states what it is.

Then share that will all their CSRs :D

Wow. At least there are some posters in this forum that are not afraid to speak up and stand their ground regarding DirecTV and at least question some of it's questionable practices. It is refreshing. At dbstalk.com you would already have been flamed, chastised by a moderator and then set up for all the whole gang to start in on you.
Ive argued with plenty of those idiots in the past. But from what Ive seen you are not allowed to disagree there else you are banned. But AVS bought them didnt they?

Had to go thorough 4 CSR yesterday, finally ending up with retention to get my HR10 to HR20 situation resolved.

Within the course of the 4, 1 told me the "swap" of an HR10 to an HR20 is without charge. The other three confirmed no such deal. The HR20 is $299.

Now, for a little extra from Retention: apparently the story of the "swap" came about when they were running low on HR20's, but people still wanted to sign up for the HR DVR service. They were supplying HR10s, telling them that when the supply of HR20s came in, it would be a "free" swap.

Thus the urban legend was born that it is a universal "free" swap for current HR10 owners.


I don't know about the urban legend part,. and I am sure there have been some CSRs who got it wrong. But the policy always has been to swap out the first HD TiVo for a HR20 at no cost.

After that is it CSR roulette. But it has been made clear at numerous analyst conference calls over the past couple of years that each box has a significant cost to DirecTV.

When they were first mentioned, the cost was reportedly more than $600, Thursday it as pegged at around $400, and coming down.

If the urban legend is a free swap for all TiVos it is wrong. The policy has always been a free swap for the first TiVo. After that you bargain as best you can.

I don't know about the urban legend part,. and I am sure there have been some CSRs who got it wrong. But the policy always has been to swap out the first HD TiVo for a HR20 at no cost.

After that is it CSR roulette. But it has been made clear at numerous analyst conference calls over the past couple of years that each box has a significant cost to DirecTV.

When they were first mentioned, the cost was reportedly more than $600, Thursday it as pegged at around $400, and coming down.

If the urban legend is a free swap for all TiVos it is wrong. The policy has always been a free swap for the first TiVo. After that you bargain as best you can.

That's why I ended up with a long discussion with an individual in Retention .

I was trying to swap the original HR10-250 I had bought less than 2 years ago for $800 for an HR20. Three out of the four CSR, including initially Retention said the cost would be $299. I kept telling them that can't be right.

After being placed on hold for many minutes, the person from Retention came back on and told me they would make an "exception" due to my standing as a loyal customer. She re-interated that this was an exception.

I think my experience reinforced the whole point that even within D*, there is confusion over what their "official" policy is, or should be.

Somewhere in the company there may in fact be a policy memo, directive, or whatever that says something along the lines of "swap the FIRST DVR, but charge for any additional ones." If so, not everyone there knows it.

I'm actually a pretty content D* subscriber, but by the time I got to the fourth CSR and had gotten conflicting stories, I was less happy than when I started.

That's why I ended up with a long discussion with an individual in Retention .

I was trying to swap the original HR10-250 I had bought less than 2 years ago for $800 for an HR20. Three out of the four CSR, including initially Retention said the cost would be $299. I kept telling them that can't be right.

After being placed on hold for many minutes, the person from Retention came back on and told me they would make an "exception" due to my standing as a loyal customer. She re-interated that this was an exception.

I think my experience reinforced the whole point that even within D*, there is confusion over what their "official" policy is, or should be.

Somewhere in the company there may in fact be a policy memo, directive, or whatever that says something along the lines of "swap the FIRST DVR, but charge for any additional ones." If so, not everyone there knows it.

I'm actually a pretty content D* subscriber, but by the time I got to the fourth CSR and had gotten conflicting stories, I was less happy than when I started.
That's a real problem with these companies, it shouldn't be this hard, in fact, it shouldn't be hard at all, if there's a policy - a set program, then all who interface with the public should know about it. It's inexcusable, and expensive for the company itself, for a customer to have to go through all those hoops to get what it supposed to be a set policy.

It should not be an adversarial type of situation when a customer deals with customer service. This sort of thing is so prevalent that it becomes apparent that the underpaying, understaffing, underfunding and lack of training of CSR departments is by design because if the bottom line continues to increase, why change the situation? Lock the customer into a contract and then throw them into CSR purgatory whenever they have a need to communicate with the provider or have a problem.

Okay, ranting over. :)

I am admittedly a little hard on customer care experiences because one of my jobs was as a customer care manager. At various times that involved designing, developing, delivering and managing the CSR curriculum.

One of the things I always stressed is that if you mess with a customer, they will tend to tell 10-15 people of their poor experience.

By contrast, if you do the right things right, customers may tell possibly 5 people of the positive experience.

Fair or not, people tend to tell more of their "horror" stories. In a weird way when someone is mistreated, they typically get a lot of sympathy from friends. When there is a positive experience, they are no longer a victim and the story is less interesting. Human nature. Gotta love it.

So, when do we see any new HD channels ????

Looks like September 5th :)

No it is not free, although some have been able to get very good deals. Myself, I was able to upgrade to 2 HR20s from my 2 HD-Tivos for $199 total, including installation of the 5LNB dish. I then sold 1 of my HD-Tivos on eBay for $305, which more than covered the cost of the upgrade. My advice would be to sell the Tivos while they still have some value.Are you under the impression that you own them?

Are you under the impression that you own them?

Before they switched to a rental mode for the HR20s, the HR10s were personal property. I paid $800 for mine and even D* had their records noted that it was "mine".

I know I on both my HR10s. I had to get the second one changed back by the Acces Card Dept after they tried to "steal" it from me. I have been thinking I will probably try to get an HR20 when a decent number of new national HD comes online, but still use the HD TiVo for everything I can use it for.

No it is not free, although some have been able to get very good deals. Myself, I was able to upgrade to 2 HR20s from my 2 HD-Tivos for $199 total, including installation of the 5LNB dish. I then sold 1 of my HD-Tivos on eBay for $305, which more than covered the cost of the upgrade. My advice would be to sell the Tivos while they still have some value.

I got 1 upgrade free of charge as part of the Maintenance Agreement. If they don't offer a deal for the 3 other HD-Tivos (when I decide to upgrade), I suspect they'll have the same issue (daily rebooting) that needs to be corrected. ;) Only thing I'll need is 2 upgrades to 5 LNB dishes. I don't expect that to cost much at all, if anything.

I still expect D* to offer low to no-cost MPEG4 upgrades when these new channels start coming online - but if they don't, I'm not too concerned.

I still expect D* to offer low to no-cost MPEG4 upgrades when these new channels start coming online - but if they don't, I'm not too concerned.

I think they will, but probably not till the new channels are live. As soon as that happens, I imagine that they'll get so barraged with complaints from hd tivo owners that they'll drop the price of a swap considerably, possibly free. I mean, it's a friggin lease. $300 bucks to lease equipment is pretty outrageous, especially when they have made your old "owned" equipment obsolete.

I think they will, but probably not till the new channels are live. As soon as that happens, I imagine that they'll get so barraged with complaints from hd tivo owners that they'll drop the price of a swap considerably, possibly free. I mean, it's a friggin lease. $300 bucks to lease equipment is pretty outrageous, especially when they have made your old "owned" equipment obsolete.

Not to mention the quality of that $300 leased equipment you get. That is a whole other issue.

Not to mention the quality of that $300 leased equipment you get. That is a whole other issue.

IMO the new DVR is a better piece of equipment than the tivo.

Now at least. At first it was frustrating for many users.

Are you under the impression that you own them?

Hehe. :eek:

IMO the new DVR is a better piece of equipment than the tivo.

Now at least. At first it was frustrating for many users.

Agreed. The HR20 (I have the -700 and the -100 versions) with the latest software patches are quite good. They do still have a bit of improvements that can be done, but given the progress so far, I'm encouraged.

At least now I can recommend them.

I do not understand why this own/lease thing is such a big deal in this situation.

When you get the new box, you can keep your equipment (hr10).


What if Sony gave everyone who had a tape deck walkman, a new cd walkman? Plus if the cd walkman has a problem, they will send you a new one. And you get to keep your tape walkman.

No one is forcing anyone to upgrade their equipment. The HDTivo still works, and will always get OTA.

I loved my HDTivo and I still have it hooked up in my living room. But at the same time, the whole HDtivo experience was very very frustrating. HDMI died twice, a tuner died twice Remeber the voltage fiasco!), and I had the reboot problems for a while as well.

The HDTivo was the buggiest box I have ever owned.

I have had zero problems with either of my new HR20s. It is a ton faster and in my experience much more stable. The picture quality to my eyes is also much better.

I will say that the best deals on swaps that I have heard, involve a broken/malfunctioning hr10.

I would swap out the first one, and then have my others breakdown every couple weeks! ;)

I agree with Peter that these boxes could use more improvements. But, to me they started out with a lot more to offer than the Tivo did.

you sure about that? I didn't think they were getting rid of any older channels. Not that I care, cause if both versions were available.. obviously I'd watch the HD ones.

But even if it was a replacement. Obviously it costs more to provide a HD version of the channel due to the increased bandwidth and need for the new sattellites to begin with. It's perfectly reasonable to charge for this upgrade. That's why I'd be surprised if they didn't.

I guess I should have re-worded. I meant that the new channels would be duplicating content on other channels, and that it seems silly to me as a consumer to pay twice for the same channel, especially if I am only watching one of them. But I supposed D* already does this with Sunday Ticket. Those who subscribe to Super Fan obviously pay more and don't watch the SD versions of their HD games, but they don't get a price break for not utilizing those channels. In a way, they're paying for something twice. Not fair, IMO, but I've come to expect it.

No one is forcing anyone to upgrade their equipment. The HDTivo still works, and will always get OTA.

While this is true, there will come a day when the HD fee subscribers pay now will entitle them to additional HD channels that their receivers are not capable of receiving. Then all of a sudden you have a muddy situation where some subscribers are getting more than others who are paying the same price, with the only difference being that the subscribers with the short end of the stick bought their equipment earlier, and have also been subscribers much longer. Would it be a good practice to use the gun-to-the-head analogy to the longer-standing subscribers and force them to pay for a new box, which they won't even own?

I have a hard enough time stomaching the fact that no matter whether D* switches my HR10 out evenly for a HR20, or whether I have to buy a HR20 and sell my HR10 to pay the difference, I am still transferring money from something I own to something I don't. The least DirecTV could do is to make the first receiver free, or implement a $5-$10 monthly lease fee instead of a one-time payment. By the time a $10/month lease fee equals $300, it'll be past time to buy a new box, for which I'm sure I'll have to shell out at least another $300. The model stinks.

The model stinks. But that is because the model is always changing. What do you charge people who are just signing up?

Any business needs new customers to sustain growth and profit. They should take care of their long time existing customers too. and in my case they did.

I have two new hr20-700s and they let me keep my HDtivo. I paid less than one hundred dollars. They also switched to the new 5 lnb dish, ran two new lines and hooked up the 2nd hr20. The cost was still less than $100.

If you add the price I paid for the HDtivo in the first place, I am just under $1000.

There was no way that anyone was going to get their money's worth out of a $1000 tivo.

Now people who paid $1000, are upset that they have to pay $300 in the worst case scenario?

The model stinks. But that is because the model is always changing. What do you charge people who are just signing up?

Any business needs new customers to sustain growth and profit. They should take care of their long time existing customers too. and in my case they did.

I have two new hr20-700s and they let me keep my HDtivo. I paid less than one hundred dollars. They also switched to the new 5 lnb dish, ran two new lines and hooked up the 2nd hr20. The cost was still less than $100.

If you add the price I paid for the HDtivo in the first place, I am just under $1000.

There was no way that anyone was going to get their money's worth out of a $1000 tivo.

Now people who paid $1000, are upset that they have to pay $300 in the worst case scenario?

I can only hope they will give me that deal, but I have not had much success with them in the past. I definitely want one HR20 and would like to have two, but what they try to charge me will be the sticking point.

I really should be cursing them not for the hardware prices, but for locking up Sunday Ticket exclusivity. If it weren't for that, I probably wouldn't even be a subscriber (until they added new HD in the fall, at least).

There was no way that anyone was going to get their money's worth out of a $1000 tivo.
If your saying "did I get $1000 worth out of the box I paid $1000 for" then I'd say yes I definately did. While I wasn't in the first batch that got them with Robert at Value electronics, I was in the first batch from Best Buy. So having it for over 2 years was a great deal for me.

I highly doubt they will increase the price of the HD package, it's already not worth the $10.99 as it is.

Right now I get the following with the HD package:

HBO
Espn
Espn2
Hdnet
Hdnet movies
Tnt
Universal
Discovery
Abc New York feed
Nbc New York feed
Cbs New York feed
Fox New York feed
Abc Chicago
Nbc Chicago
Cbs Chicago
Fox Chicago
Wgn Chicago
Comcast Sports Net Chicago

$9.99 is not a huge price for that lineup. It is most certainly worth it to me.

HOW do you get nbo in the hd package whem it's $12.00 by itself on directv??, also its NOT part of the HD pack. and HOW do you get get the NY networks in HD if you live in chicago? i live in so cal. and get the L.A. networks in HD but they took away the NY hd network channels but i still get the standard NY networks, BTW not everybody can get the OTA channels where they live, in my case i live about 100 miles from L.A. and cannot receive the HD channels OTA.

HOW do you get nbo in the hd package whem it's $12.00 by itself on directv??, also its NOT part of the HD pack.
You have to pay the $9.99 HD Access fee to get HBO and Showtime in HD, but you also have to subscribe to the HBO and Showtime packages to get the HD channels.

You only get HBO if you subscribe to HBO. I pay $10 a month for HBO.

Sorry for the confusion. Yes, I do subscribe to HBO.

But to me, HBO HD is still part of the HD package, because if I didn't pay the $9.99, I wouldn't get the hd version of the channel.

When I signed up for the hd package years ago, I received the Ny hd feeds when they came online. NBC, then CBS, then ABC, then FOX.

The $12.00 is for the out of town locals. I do not receive the SD versions of the NY channels.

When I upgraded to the Mpeg4 dish and dvrs, I received the Chicago digital/HD channels via satellite.

My understanding was that when you receive your local HD channels (mpeg4) through satellite, they turn off the NY (or La) versions.

But it has been five months and they have not turned them off yet.

I also did not include HD PPV, CDUSA, or the special event HD channels because I am not sure if they are part of the hD package or free to every/anyone.

I guess I will be going to cable or FIOS once this bologna becomes a reality. I own my HR10-250, have it networked with extraction, and have added 500GB and there is no way Im paying anyone several hundred dollars for the privaledge of renting a machine? And signing a commitment contract? That is absurd.

I guess I will be going to cable or FIOS once this bologna becomes a reality. I own my HR10-250, have it networked with extraction, and have added 500GB and there is no way Im paying anyone several hundred dollars for the privaledge of renting a machine? And signing a commitment contract? That is absurd.

I've been a DirecTV subscriber since 1997. If they didn't have the Sunday Ticket football package I would have left earlier. But the Sunday Ticket keeps me there. I think if DirecTV lost the Sunday Ticket package, you might see many subscribers leave.

I think if DirecTV lost the Sunday Ticket package, you might see many subscribers leave.
That's probably true, and that's why they pay massive amounts of money every time it comes up for renewal.

I've been a DirecTV subscriber since 1997. If they didn't have the Sunday Ticket football package I would have left earlier. But the Sunday Ticket keeps me there. I think if DirecTV lost the Sunday Ticket package, you might see many subscribers leave.

It is certainly true in my case as well. It is likely that I will stay with D* as long as they have the NFLST even though there are some in this thread who won't count those and the HD RSN's as channels.

Sorry for the confusion. Yes, I do subscribe to HBO.

But to me, HBO HD is still part of the HD package, because if I didn't pay the $9.99, I wouldn't get the hd version of the channel.

When I signed up for the hd package years ago, I received the Ny hd feeds when they came online. NBC, then CBS, then ABC, then FOX.

The $12.00 is for the out of town locals. I do not receive the SD versions of the NY channels.

When I upgraded to the Mpeg4 dish and dvrs, I received the Chicago digital/HD channels via satellite.

My understanding was that when you receive your local HD channels (mpeg4) through satellite, they turn off the NY (or La) versions.

But it has been five months and they have not turned them off yet.

I also did not include HD PPV, CDUSA, or the special event HD channels because I am not sure if they are part of the hD package or free to every/anyone.

Is this true? You have to have the HD Package, or you can't get the HD feed of HBO even if when you pay the HBO fee?

Is this true? You have to have the HD Package, or you can't get the HD feed of HBO even if when you pay the HBO fee?
For customers who had HD receivers before the switch to HD Access the answer is kind of. If you don't pay the HD Access fee, you can get a free grandfathered "HD Acccess Lite" that will give you your HD locals as well as HBO or Showtime HD if you subscribe to them.

For customers adding HD receivers since HD Access, there isn't really a choice. If you have an HD receiver, you are required to pay the $9.99 HD Access fee. If you don't want to pay the fee, you have to send the receiver back.

If the price is to high people will scream. People are just not going to pay what they cannot afford. Bad enough the need to buy new TV's.

I doubt the 2/2009 HD date will hold.

I doubt the 2/2009 HD date will hold.
I don't. How many people do you know who use analog OTA?

I doubt the 2/2009 HD date will hold.
Probably because there is nothing requiring stations to switch to HD - ever...

Looks like September 5th :)

Can anyone give me any more info on the source of this info for the appearance of the new HD Channels?

Can anyone give me any more info on the source of this info for the appearance of the new HD Channels?

There are others, but here is one:

http://www.pvrwire.com/2007/01/09/directv-to-carry-100-natiuonal-hd-channels-in-2007/

HDTV programming should be Free of charge

HDTV programming should be Free of charge
Providers won't pass up the chance to make extra cash, especially from their most affluent customers. HDTV will eventually be "free" but not until it becomes more mainstream.