RS1 4th Wave [Text View]

Kevin McCarthy

05-11-07, 09:02 AM

I bailed ...
I had ordered on March 3rd, and was concerned that the May shipment might echo the April one, with my having to potentially wait until late June to get one. Fortunately, I managed to find an RS-1 available elsewhere in the country, and for a very good price. Ordered it on Monday, and it showed up yesterday (Thursday).

I set it up to project on my 100" Da-Lite Hi-Power, and I have to say it looks amazing! I am not a high-end viewer by any means; not sure I can see the reported oversaturation, and it's not obvious to my untrained eyes what would drive me to get it calibrated (although I did buy a copy of HD-DVE). I can see hand puppets, but the black is certainly adequate for me.

So far, so good, but... I was really disappointed by the noise even in normal. I had not seen it in person, but took on faith some of the "I sit a few feet away and can't even hear it" comments. During silent passages, I can hear it from across the room. My wife is especially demanding in this regard, but she has been busy, and that will have to wait until this weekend. I guess people just differ on this one, although the delivery happened to coincide with the latest copy of Home Theater magazine - it compares the Pearl, the MitsHC5000, and the RS-1. They loved the RS-1 image, but came down on it for being loud. Why, after all of the reviews, does the one that confirms my concerns show up the same day as the unit?!?

I don't yet know if this is a deal-breaker or not. The Pearl isn't technically as good, but I'm not sure we could tell, and it is apparently really quiet. The lack of a horizontal lens shift, and the 1.8 vs 2.0 X zoom would impact me. Brightness at max throw would be less.

I won't know for certain for a few days, but my RS-1 may be available for sale. More early next week.

Kevin

strange_brew

05-11-07, 09:29 AM

Kevin,

Congrats on your decision - I too pulled the plug and bought elsewhere. I received my machine on Wed and last night was the first "official" movie (King Kong HD-DVD). All I can say is, WOW! I'm just stunned by the image this thing puts out. It exceeded my expectations in every way. This is actually my first front projection system so I'm going from having nothing to having a 127"W (SMX) screen powered by an RS1, so that is probably a big part of it. Anyway, talk about a sea change!

I must say I was very surprised by your comments on the noise. In low lamp, I find it very unobtrusive. And all of my equipment is outside the room, so the PJ is the only thing in there that produces noise. One of the reasons I have everything outside the room is the noise from the XBOX 360 was driving me nuts - so I'm not insensitive to ambient noise. I sit about 6 feet in front of, and 4 feet below the machine and its barely audible to me. My wife is very sensitive to that as well and she didn't say a word about it. Are you hearing it even while watching a movie in low passages? In high lamp I definitely noticed it, but even that I didn't find overly obtrusive. I guess it is really subjective.

costa

05-11-07, 09:45 AM

I wish I had Kevin's or Craig's brains and pull the plug as well :(

strange_brew

05-11-07, 10:15 AM

I wish I had Kevin's or Craig's brains and pull the plug as well :(Trust me, you don't want my brains :p

Caspyr

05-11-07, 10:24 AM

Anyone remember what the last day of the prebuy was?

costa

05-11-07, 10:29 AM

22 November

Kevin McCarthy

05-11-07, 10:36 AM

Strange brew: This is also my first projector, and noise aside, I love it. I can't figure out if the disparity between assessments of noise reflect different personal thresholds, or if there is unit to unit variance. For what its worth, I have my HD-A2 near a wall that seems to amplify its fan sound. That is around the threshold where I could tolerate it, but the RS-1 appears to be ~ 3X higher. In the event I decide to let it go, I already have PMs from prospective buyers, so I'm probably all set on that front.

johnathan

05-11-07, 10:52 AM

Kevin and Craig
If you like it now give it 75 hours or so. It will really come alive ! To say I am happy with it is the understatement of the year !

To all of you waiting I hope all of you receive your's soon ! Johnathan

strange_brew

05-11-07, 10:58 AM

strange_brew

05-11-07, 10:58 AM

costa

05-11-07, 11:01 AM

If it gets any better than it currently is, I may wet myself.
*cancels trip to visit Craig*
;)

shodoug

05-11-07, 11:10 AM

22 November

And from what I have read here on the forum:

The second wave took care of a lot of orders, including some orders placed early on the 20th.

The third wave only took care of some orders placed on the 20th. I don't think it even got very far past noon orders.

I do not know if the preorders were evenly spread out over the last three days, but if they were, and if JVC continues to send projectors to AVS at the same rate as the last "wave", it could easily take 7 more months just to satisfy the preorders. (one more month to finish out the 20th, and then three more months each for the orders on the 21st and the 22nd.)

The small amount sent during the last wave was not a good sign.

I personally think that it is important for us to let JVC know whether we expect it to take 7 more months for our preorders to be fulfilled. My understanding is that the preorder was authorized by JVC.

I do not think that anyone on the prebuy wants to wait 7 more months, but I am sure someone will chime in and say that a couple of years would be fine with them. :)

Best Regards,
Doug

strange_brew

05-11-07, 11:32 AM

*cancels trip to visit Craig*
;)ROFL. Good call.

costa

05-11-07, 11:44 AM

Doug,
I think you have the second wave wrong. It took care of a lot of orders UP to Nov 20th (early).
Let's hope the 4th wave is as big as the second.

But I was under the impression as well that JVC authorized the pre-order and from my point of view they should have taken care of it first.

Caspyr

05-11-07, 12:06 PM

Hope I was the only that waited till the last minute on the prebuy, that would mean I am getting close.

shodoug

05-11-07, 12:08 PM

Costa,

Thanks, that is what I meant, but apparently not what I said. :)

I will go back and edit the post.

I agree that we need to see more waves like the second, and fewer like the third.

Best Regards,
Doug

Doug,
I think you have the second wave wrong. It took care of a lot of orders UP to Nov 20th (early).
Let's hope the 4th wave is as big as the second.

But I was under the impression as well that JVC authorized the pre-order and from my point of view they should have taken care of it first.

costa

05-11-07, 12:10 PM

Hope I was the only that waited till the last minute on the prebuy, that would mean I am getting close.
No you are not :(

Kevin McCarthy

05-11-07, 12:34 PM

Strange brew: We have a pretty conventional living room, carpeted, otherwise sheet rock with no sound absorptive measures.

Kevin

Alan Gouger

05-11-07, 12:44 PM

There are rumors the next batch will be more like the second, much larger. Lets hope its a good one. Should know more in a weeks time.

shodoug

05-11-07, 01:01 PM

There are rumors the next batch will be more like the second, much larger. Lets hope its a good one. Should know more in a weeks time.

That is good to hear. I hope the rumors pan out. :)

Best Regards,
Doug

strange_brew

05-11-07, 02:21 PM

Strange brew: We have a pretty conventional living room, carpeted, otherwise sheet rock with no sound absorptive measures.

KevinI wonder if that might be it. My HT is pretty absorptive. I had my room designed for acoustics (1" thick fiberglass panels and fabric on most of the walls), so any noise coming from the PJ is not reflected throughout the room. Your room might be amplifying the sound of your projector. That would also explain why some people find it annoying and some do not - it might just be room acoustics interacting with the frequency that the fan puts out.

Craig.

funlvr1965

05-11-07, 03:42 PM

funlvr1965,
Can you post your Firmware number when you get it. Just curious if JVC did any new FW updates.

Ernie maybe someone from this shipment can help you with the firmware rev mine wont be setup till next weekend but I will be sure to post once setup gets underway

sfogg

05-11-07, 03:42 PM

There are rumors the next batch will be more like the second, much larger. Lets hope its a good one. Should know more in a weeks time.

Just as long as it is big enough to get through the 21st.....

Shawn

Caspyr

05-11-07, 03:46 PM

Just as long as it is big enough to get through the 21st.....

C'mon now, don't be greedy, make it the 22nd :)

IndifferentBozo

05-11-07, 03:47 PM

So far, so good, but... I was really disappointed by the noise even in normal. I had not seen it in person, but took on faith some of the "I sit a few feet away and can't even hear it" comments. During silent passages, I can hear it from across the room.

I won't know for certain for a few days, but my RS-1 may be available for sale. More early next week.

Kevin

Received mine from AVS today (part of the mini-3rd wave), set it up and ran through a few movie scenes, test patterns, etc (DVE is in route, so noting from that yet). HD DVD player (XA2), 134" diagonal 16:9 Carada BW screen. roughly 16x18 room, probably a 16.5' throw (mid throw), no acoustical treatment as of yet. Walls painted a dark brown, ceiling is black, carpet is a cream, which is probably my biggest light polluter. Pretty much out of the box settings, except for messing with mode, color temp setting, and gamma.

Lots of reviews already, so I won't get too verbose. Just some observations:
- Firmware 061 - 19. A few other numbers/letter in that menu, not sure if any of that other information is useful.
- Brightness looked fine on "normal" for my screen, which I was a bit worried about dues to the size.
- Unit does appear to be pretty noisy to me. It's on a cabinet, 6 ft behind and 3 ft up from the sofa, and its fairly easy to hear in low power on quiet scenes. This is a bit of a disappointment after comments here.
- alignment looks good, but haven't checked with a single pixel white grid yet.
- Looks like some reddish/pinkish uniformity issues in the lower right corner
- Black level is ok, but defeinately a grey. I probably expected a bit too much here.
- No obvious corner lightening, although the black field doesn't look completly uniform to me, with a gradual darkening to the center. Not noticable on anything but a full black field.

The picture itself is very impressive, the issues above (save the noise, and not-quite black on bars around 2.35 movies) are not easily noticed during playback. Colors seem pretty vivid, but I havn't seen anything in my short viewing that bothered me as being unrealistic. I've watched mainly dark scenes, however. The times I did notice color issues, it turned out to be the lighting in the room the scene was filmed in (the flesh tones were fine in the next scene).

Kevin McCarthy

05-11-07, 03:48 PM

How do you check the firmware revision?

Kevin

sfogg

05-11-07, 03:48 PM

C'mon now, don't be greedy, make it the 22nd :)

Fine by me!

Now we just need to convince JVC to put out an olive branch to us fourth wave pre-orderers and have them drop shipped. ;)

Shawn

shodoug

05-11-07, 04:59 PM

Fine by me!

Now we just need to convince JVC to put out an olive branch to us fourth wave pre-orderers and have them drop shipped. ;)

Shawn

Unless JVC has upgraded the cardboard for the boxes, I would rather have them go to AVS on a big pallet and be double-boxed before being individually shipped to us.

Just MHO.

Best Regards,
Doug

santellavision

05-11-07, 05:04 PM

How do you check the firmware revision?

KevinPush the up, down, right, left, enter buttons quickly to take you to the service menu screen where it shows the FW number.

Alan Gouger

05-11-07, 05:20 PM

IndifferentBozo

05-11-07, 05:38 PM

IndifferentBozo

Ck your HDMI setting and make sure it is set to normal. I was not impressed at first when saw the demo unit and once I re set that setting the blacks were very impressive. With 235:1 movies the bars top/bottom were not visible. Very impressive. An all black field was light grey of course.

I played with that setting during my first viewing and it was set correctly, bumping to the other setting (enhanced, as I recall) really jumped the blacks up.

Blacks aren't horrible, of course, but the top/bottom bars are noticeable as compared to the screen border and surrounding wall for 2.35 movies. Hand puppets are visible during a paused movie still in the black bar region, although if someone was doing hand puppets while you watched a movie, you might not notice they were doing them (how's that for a non-scientific description of black level..)

The good news is they will only get better as I play with tweaks. I think I'm just a victim of unrealistic expectations.

IDB

santellavision

05-11-07, 06:43 PM

Bozo,
Have you done the basic Video Essesentials / AVIA calibration for brightness, contrast? This doesn't sound right? What projector are you comparing the RS1 black levels too?

Wet1

05-11-07, 08:19 PM

I had similar observations to Bozo regarding black levels. My expectations were high based on the early reports as I was expecting near CRT levels... not even close IMO. With that said, black levels are as good or better than about every digital I've seen or owned.

Regarding the noise, I didn't think it was that bad. Certainly no worse than other PJs I've owned in normal mode, but it's LOUD in high lamp mode. I can tell you it's noticeably louder (even in normal mode) than the Sony 1080p units.

Toe

05-11-07, 08:59 PM

I would be willing to bet your room (carpet in particular) is the limiting factor with your black level. Try out the flashlight trick and see how much your screen lights up when you shine a light on the floor (and other parts of the room). I have a med dark blue carpet and when I performed the flashlight trick I was amazed at how much the carpet was lighting up the screen. I have since put down some black velvet on the floor (and other parts of the room) and the difference with the flashlight trick is night and day (more like day to night :p ). Worth a try anyways.

Received mine from AVS today (part of the mini-3rd wave), set it up and ran through a few movie scenes, test patterns, etc (DVE is in route, so noting from that yet). HD DVD player (XA2), 134" diagonal 16:9 Carada BW screen. roughly 16x18 room, probably a 16.5' throw (mid throw), no acoustical treatment as of yet. Walls painted a dark brown, ceiling is black, carpet is a cream, which is probably my biggest light polluter. Pretty much out of the box settings, except for messing with mode, color temp setting, and gamma.

Lots of reviews already, so I won't get too verbose. Just some observations:
- Firmware 061 - 19. A few other numbers/letter in that menu, not sure if any of that other information is useful.
- Brightness looked fine on "normal" for my screen, which I was a bit worried about dues to the size.
- Unit does appear to be pretty noisy to me. It's on a cabinet, 6 ft behind and 3 ft up from the sofa, and its fairly easy to hear in low power on quiet scenes. This is a bit of a disappointment after comments here.
- alignment looks good, but haven't checked with a single pixel white grid yet.
- Looks like some reddish/pinkish uniformity issues in the lower right corner
- Black level is ok, but defeinately a grey. I probably expected a bit too much here.
- No obvious corner lightening, although the black field doesn't look completly uniform to me, with a gradual darkening to the center. Not noticable on anything but a full black field.

The picture itself is very impressive, the issues above (save the noise, and not-quite black on bars around 2.35 movies) are not easily noticed during playback. Colors seem pretty vivid, but I havn't seen anything in my short viewing that bothered me as being unrealistic. I've watched mainly dark scenes, however. The times I did notice color issues, it turned out to be the lighting in the room the scene was filmed in (the flesh tones were fine in the next scene).

IndifferentBozo

05-11-07, 10:36 PM

Have you done the basic Video Essesentials / AVIA calibration for brightness, contrast? This doesn't sound right? What projector are you comparing the RS1 black levels too?

I did a basic AVIA check, and it didn't change much (brightness to -1, color bumped up a notch ot two from -5), the settings were pretty solid out of the box. I'm not comparing the blacks to any particular projector, just a lack of projected light..)

I had similar observations to Bozo regarding black levels. My expectations were high based on the early reports as I was expecting near CRT levels....With that said, black levels are as good or better than about every digital I've seen or owned.

I pretty much agree with this, I was expecting too much. Alan noted that a full field black was a bit grey, the only difference for me is I still see the grey with a screenful of color.

I would be willing to bet your room (carpet in particular) is the limiting factor with your black level.

I do think the carpet is a limiting factor (we've been planning on getting a dark throw rug for in front of the screen) but even if I covered the entire room in velvet I don't think there would be a blackout condition when I hit "hide" on the remote. putting dark blankets, etc on the floor isn't making much of a difference.

I don't want to give the wrong impression, it's not an alarming level of grey by any means, it's just not quite "black." Certainly not a deal killer. I know there is some variation in projectors, so it's possible that others have better absolute black levels, or as Toe mentioned, the room needs a bit more work.

erkq

05-11-07, 11:11 PM

I would be willing to bet your room (carpet in particular) is the limiting factor with your black level.

While the room can certainly effect contrast it won't make hand-puppets visible. THAT comes exclusively from the projector. Combine had-puppets with the flashlight trick to get a complete picture of what's effecting the black level.

wildfire99

05-11-07, 11:38 PM

I do think the carpet is a limiting factor (we've been planning on getting a dark throw rug for in front of the screen) but even if I covered the entire room in velvet I don't think there would be a blackout condition when I hit "hide" on the remote. putting dark blankets, etc on the floor isn't making much of a difference.

Not in my room (which is a light-ish black). It does help ANSI contrast though... hand puppets in dark scenes (including many outer-space scenes) are the norm, but when you get any kind of light on screen, you can't discern hand-puppets anymore (that is, my room becomes the limitation).

Watching Star Wars III the other night, it did have a few scenes where it would go from a full white field to black, or a bright scene to black, and for about 2-3 seconds, it was a compete blackout, and it was jarring. I went back and played those scenes over again a few times just for fun. :)

I was disappointed in the shadow detail in the film though... is it my settings (had to bump to +0 brightness, but was best for detail at +1), or does it really stink? Like Senator Palpatine sitting in the throne in the first part as a captive, he has no detail on his clothes/robe at all. The last shot of him and Vader on a Star Destroyer was truly reference quality though.... I never knew there were so many shades of gray.

mehdi

05-12-07, 02:10 AM

I just received my unit (I had pre-ordered from AVS on 11/20) yesterday. I hooked it up tonight and the version numbers are listed as follows:

Main: 061
Sub: 0.19
DD: 0c0f86
OSD: 012

I too have a carpeted room with fabric covered walls. I have not mounted it yet, so I do notice the fan running in normal mode. It doesn't sound to be loud enough, but I'll have to wait for that judgment until I receive a ceiling plate and mount it on the ceiling.

KenWH

05-12-07, 09:20 AM

I just received my unit (I had pre-ordered from AVS on 11/21) yesterday.

Well there's a bit of good news...it would appear that the 3rd non-wave/ripple/whatever :rolleyes: made it into the 21st.

Mehdi...do you remember at about what time of day you got your order in?

I wonder at this point just how many pre-orders are still needing to be filled? I'm guessing there's tons as I expect a lot of people waited (like me) till the last day in order to make up their minds. :p

Bear5k

05-12-07, 10:14 AM

I wonder at this point just how many pre-orders are still needing to be filled? I'm guessing there's tons as I expect a lot of people waited (like me) till the last day in order to make up their minds. :p
Yep. I can only imagine that Jason's phone was ringing off the hook as the deadline approached. :) (I had about a half hour left by the time he and I connected)

costa

05-12-07, 12:09 PM

Yep. I can only imagine that Jason's phone was ringing off the hook as the deadline approached. :) (I had about a half hour left by the time he and I connected)
:eek: I am not the last one? yay! :cool:

shodoug

05-12-07, 12:44 PM

I just received my unit (I had pre-ordered from AVS on 11/21) yesterday. I hooked it up tonight and the version numbers are listed as follows:

That is really good to hear :) .

Best Regards,
Doug

MikeSRC

05-12-07, 01:04 PM

I just received my unit (I had pre-ordered from AVS on 11/21) yesterday. I hooked it up tonight and the version numbers are listed as follows:

Main: 061
Sub: 0.19
DD: 0c0f86
OSD: 012

So, no change from the second batch. I don't really expect any changes in firmware for the foreseeable future as JVC has pretty much said that in the past. I've heard the same rumor on quantity for the next wave. It should be at least as many as the 2nd.

GaryB_UK

05-12-07, 01:25 PM

So, no change from the second batch. I don't really expect any changes in firmware for the foreseeable future as JVC has pretty much said that in the past. I've heard the same rumor on quantity for the next wave. It should be at least as many as the 2nd.

There are only two versions so far. 59 in the original batch and 61 on units produced since April.

MikeSRC

05-12-07, 01:36 PM

There are only two versions so far. 59 in the original batch and 61 on units produced since April.

Right. For those who didn't see it in one of the other RS1 threads, the 061 firmware chnage was supposed to address the color space issues with an RGB feed.

mehdi

05-12-07, 02:05 PM

Well there's a bit of good news...it would appear that the 3rd non-wave/ripple/whatever :rolleyes: made it into the 21st.

Mehdi...do you remember at about what time of day you got your order in?

Ken, I just checked my Private mailbox and I have to make a correction. I ordered on 11/20. I have a PM from Jason at 9:44am Pacific time, followed by a phone conversation shortly thereafter.

Sorry about the confusion. I will correct my post above to reflect this.

shodoug

05-12-07, 02:35 PM

Ken, I just checked my Private mailbox and I have to make a correction. I ordered on 11/20. I have a PM from Jason at 9:44am Pacific time, followed by a phone conversation shortly thereafter.

Sorry about the confusion. I will correct my post above to reflect this.

Thanks for the news. Hopefully the fourth wave will be big enough, anyway. :)

Best Regards,
Doug

costa

05-12-07, 04:47 PM

Doug! Stop jinxing it! :mad:
:cool:

shodoug

05-12-07, 11:36 PM

Doug! Stop jinxing it! :mad:
:cool:

Sorry, :(

I know understand it is all me. :(

I didn't jinx the Pearl prebuy, though.... ;)

Best Regards,
Doug

fishon

05-14-07, 01:55 AM

Ken, I just checked my Private mailbox and I have to make a correction. I ordered on 11/20. I have a PM from Jason at 9:44am Pacific time, followed by a phone conversation shortly thereafter.

Sorry about the confusion. I will correct my post above to reflect this.

I ordered on the 21st, and haven't been called yet, so that would put us somewhere between the 20th and 21st (Nov)

Don_Kellogg

05-14-07, 06:35 AM

When did the Pre-Order end Dec 31?

Wet1

05-14-07, 07:34 AM

Nov 22 I believe.

Bear5k

05-14-07, 10:45 AM

Nov 22 I believe.
At 4pm EST, IIRC. Jason and I connected, finally, about 3:30 EST. :)

santellavision

05-14-07, 09:33 PM

Bear5k

05-14-07, 10:31 PM

So Bear,
You might be on of the very last. Could you please report that highly anticipated phone call from Jason letting you your PJ is shipping.

The rest of waiting (post pre-buy) will then have an idea when we might get ours!

If I hold out that long, you will definitely hear about it. :) However, there are several others in line behind me. Who knows, it was soooo long ago, I might have ordered around 3pm EST. Or even 2:45pm. ;) I have a suspicion that a LOT of folks were ringing Jason's number at that point.

shodoug

05-15-07, 08:31 AM

When did the Pre-Order end Dec 31?

I am beginning to wonder if the preorder may never end... :D

Best Regards,
Doug

costa

05-15-07, 09:09 AM

Who knows, it was soooo long ago, I might have ordered around 3pm EST. Or even 2:45pm. ;) I have a suspicion that a LOT of folks were ringing Jason's number at that point.
I got in touch with him at 1pm EST (exactly :cool: ) :)

costa

05-15-07, 09:11 AM

I am beginning to wonder if the preorder may never end... :D

I have a feeling that when Doug and I get our pjs (projectors that is and not pyjamas!) the "where is my RS1" threads will be really quiet :o :rolleyes:

Don_Kellogg

05-15-07, 10:18 AM

Who knows, maybe Microsofts next OS will have shipped by the time all of these orders get caught up =8^)

shodoug

05-15-07, 11:02 AM

I have a feeling that when Doug and I get our pjs (projectors that is and not pyjamas!) the "where is my RS1" threads will be really quiet :o :rolleyes:

Well, you are the one who told me not to jinx things. :)

Best Regards,
Doug

gtimbers

05-17-07, 02:35 PM

Well, I just jumped ship. I got a tip on a source in the Mid-West from Kevin McCarthy. I called, ordered and had the RS1 delivered in 2 days. Very nice price and extremely comfortable and easy purchase. It just showed up here at work. It is currently showing Blu-Ray movies on the wall in a conference room. I am dying for the end of the day so I can take it home. It took longer to find an extension cord than it did to get a great picture. I'm sure a few minor menu tweaks are required, but OTB it is stunning. I'll comment more later after I get it home and properly adjusted.

Good luck to you still on the pre-buy list. I really home the next shipment fills the orders. This projector is awesome and you will all be very pleased.

Greg

strange_brew

05-17-07, 02:47 PM

Greg, welcome to the (growing) "jumped ship" club ;)
I've already got 30 hours on mine and I couldn't be happier with my decision. I'm sure you'll feel the same way...

tycoondog2

05-17-07, 02:57 PM

You had to come back and gloat didn't you

Greg, welcome to the (growing) "jumped ship" club ;)
I've already got 30 hours on mine and I couldn't be happier with my decision. I'm sure you'll feel the same way...

strange_brew

05-17-07, 03:22 PM

You had to come back and gloat didn't youNot sure if that was meant tongue-in-cheek or not, but it certainly wasn't my intention to gloat - only to support Greg in his decision.

sfogg

05-17-07, 03:29 PM

Any update on the fourth wave? One online dealer is saying the expected JVC ship date is mid June.....

Shawn

Bear5k

05-17-07, 03:35 PM

Any update on the fourth wave? One online dealer is saying the expected JVC ship date is mid June.....

Shawn
That would be consistent with the shipment leaving JVC's US warehouse at the end of the month, and hitting AVS a week later. I think we've got 3+ weeks more of waiting before we hear anything about whether the fourth wave is the one that cures the backlog.

Personally, if they want to keep mine in California for a few extra days to put some rubber grommets/bushings on the fans and to load the latest firmware fixes, that would be great. Heck, I'll even buy the fans (Papst Blue Ribbon... ;) ) that I would want them to install given some of the noise reports that are now surfacing.

Therein, perhaps, is the worst part of waiting: everyone else has taken the bloom off the rose, but the backlash against the "nitpicking" hasn't quite even the playing field so you know what you are getting. ;)

Bill

costa

05-17-07, 04:30 PM

I think we've got 3+ weeks more of waiting before we hear anything about whether the fourth wave is the one that cures the backlog
I sure hope you are wrong. Otherwise this severely messed up! How does everyone else and their dog get an RS1 any time they want, yet AVS is not getting any? A week ago Tryg said they would have news on the 4th wave really soon...and now you come out and say 3+ more weeks?
:mad:

costa

05-17-07, 04:32 PM

Not sure if that was meant tongue-in-cheek or not, but it certainly wasn't my intention to gloat - only to support Greg in his decision.
I support tycoon in his decision to blast you :p ;)

tycoondog2

05-17-07, 05:09 PM

Sorry not tongue-in-cheek
You posted 12 minutes after Greg. So you subscribe to this thread
or you just want to hang around this thread see whats going on even though you have yours

You wana support Greg send him a PM

Not sure if that was meant tongue-in-cheek or not, but it certainly wasn't my intention to gloat - only to support Greg in his decision.

tycoondog2

05-17-07, 05:10 PM

From what I here JVC only shipped 81 of the last 3,000 unit shipment

I sure hope you are wrong. Otherwise this severely messed up! How does everyone else and their dog get an RS1 any time they want, yet AVS is not getting any? A week ago Tryg said they would have news on the 4th wave really soon...and now you come out and say 3+ more weeks?
:mad:

santellavision

05-17-07, 05:49 PM

Personally, if they want to keep mine in California for a few extra days to put some rubber grommets/bushings on the fansAlright, what's the 'rubber grommet fan fix'?

Catdaddy67

05-17-07, 07:14 PM

Any update on the fourth wave? One online dealer is saying the expected JVC ship date is mid June.....

Shawn

OUCH. On the bright side, Im closing on my new home tomorrow. Will have pics of my 2.35 setup ASAP. 8)

Im going to have the custom cabinetry in my media room modified to fit my 2.35 carada screen/and its possible successor G3 firehawk so I am thinking ill just have the screen mounted in front of the cabinet for now.

I dont know if I can wait another 2 to 3 weeks for 2.35 goodness on my HD1. I know what its like to wait for something that youve been wanting to taste so bad for a while. Im done waiting, too.

sfogg

05-17-07, 08:02 PM

"Will have pics of my 2.35 setup ASAP. 8)"

Good luck with that! 2.35 is great, once you have it it is hard to go back.

Are you just zooming the HD-1 or are you going lens/scaler?

Shawn

Catdaddy67

05-17-07, 08:56 PM

Ive got a Panamorph UH380 I got from Jason a couple of months ago, and an AVM 50 to do vertical stretch that I got last month. 8)

wildfire99

05-17-07, 09:28 PM

Alright, what's the 'rubber grommet fan fix'?
I believe it's a joke.

Rob Tomlin

05-17-07, 11:32 PM

From what I here JVC only shipped 81 of the last 3,000 unit shipment

Huh?

:confused:

Bear5k

05-18-07, 12:04 AM

I sure hope you are wrong. Otherwise this severely messed up! How does everyone else and their dog get an RS1 any time they want, yet AVS is not getting any? A week ago Tryg said they would have news on the 4th wave really soon...and now you come out and say 3+ more weeks?
:mad:
:p

Calls it likes I sees 'em. AVS has gotten one shipment per month. That would put the next one due into AVS about the first week in June and hopefully into my hands a week later. Give or take.

Bear5k

05-18-07, 12:09 AM

I believe it's a joke.
Not really. Read the second paragraph:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10560261&&#post10560261

Not something that would seem to be on offer generally, but I'd take it at face value that JVC may be willing to work with folks on a fix for noisy models.

Bill

wildfire99

05-18-07, 01:14 AM

Well I'd be very interested in getting mine to be more quiet, but I'd want to know what the offer of 'looking at it' entails, if it's not just the usual once-over to check for rattling or out-of-spec parts, or if they really would do something special/custom as an experiment to make a serious effort at quieting it.

If the RS-1 was a car, I would pop open the case and line/mass-load that chintzy plastic cover. That alone would probably solve the sound issue to the satisfaction of the vast majority.

tycoondog2

05-18-07, 07:47 AM

Huh?

:confused:

On jvc's last shippment they were suppossed to ship 3,000 but only shipped 81

Don_Kellogg

05-18-07, 08:26 AM

Hoping AVS gets an update for JVC soon, as I know we would all like to get a status ;)

Brian Corr

05-18-07, 08:43 AM

Where did the 3000 number come from? Tom Stites himself told me they were only producing 600 a month.

tycoondog2

05-18-07, 09:05 AM

Where did the 3000 number come from? Tom Stites himself told me they were only producing 600 a month.

from a dealer and a sponser of this forum.

If you are in touch with Tom maybe you can find out when all AVS backorders will be filled

costa

05-18-07, 09:30 AM

If you are in touch with Tom maybe you can find out when all AVS backorders will be filled
Official Response: "When we get the projectors in our warehouse, we will perform QC and then immediately ship them to all of our dealers"
Unofficial Response: "We have no clue and when we get them we will send them to people who will pay full price instead of keeping our word and ship them to the people who ordered first" :rolleyes:

tstites

05-18-07, 10:11 AM

sfogg

05-18-07, 10:16 AM

Tom,

Brave man!

"but I think we might be able to clear most if not all the AVS pre-orders this month as we are getting quite a few in."

Boy do I hope you are right, or at least enough to get through the 21st! ;)

Earlier is good too.....

Shawn (Fingers and toes crossed.....)

costa

05-18-07, 10:46 AM

Boy do I hope you are right, or at least enough to get through the 21st! ;)
Damn you Shawn! Why can't you wish for the 22nd as well? :(
;)

Although it is worth to point out the "MIGHT", "MOST" and "LIKELY" parts and compare them to my "unofficial response" :)

tycoondog2

05-18-07, 11:04 AM

MacDaddy29

05-18-07, 11:13 AM

Just to be clear here...we shipped substantially more than 81 units last month and whoever mentioned the 3000 number is clueless.

For obvious business reasons I'm not about to mention how many units we will be getting this month or any month, but I think we might be able to clear most if not all the AVS pre-orders this month as we are getting quite a few in.

AVS is not my account, so I can't speak to when and how many AVS will get this month, but based on the fact we're already getting shipments in, it will likely be a little earlier than in past months.

Cheers,

Might?
I gotta tell ya, I've been on the fence concerning jumping ship on my pre-order and I'm still undecided. However, if JVC doesn't fulfill all of AVS's pre-orders with the next shipment (I ordered 10 minutes before the deadline), not only will I drop from the pre-order, but I will never buy another product from JVC again. I will encourage everyone I know to avoid JVC at all costs, thats my prerogative and I will be aggressive in doing so.

It is pathetic that they would authorize a pre-buy through, by far, the largest and most influential home theater website in the country and then not fulfill those orders in a timely manner (and no, 7 months from the pre-order and 5 months from the first shipment is not timely). By the amount of people who have already just walked into a store purchased and received their RS-1's, the pre-order has to be considerably smaller, and yet they might be able to satisfy that pre-order. Might!

tycoondog2

05-18-07, 11:25 AM

You been threatening that you MIGHT jump ship since the third wave thread.

Time to get off the fence before you start to have that slow melt down that other have had in these threads

Might?
I gotta tell ya, I've been on the fence concerning jumping ship on my pre-order and I'm still undecided. However, if JVC doesn't fulfill all of AVS's pre-orders with the next shipment (I ordered 10 minutes before the deadline), not only will I drop from the pre-order, but I will never buy another product from JVC again. I will encourage everyone I know to avoid JVC at all costs, thats my prerogative and I will be aggressive in doing so.

It is pathetic that they would authorize a pre-buy through, by far, the largest and most influential home theater website in the country and then not fulfill those orders in a timely manner (and no, 7 months from the pre-order and 5 months from the first shipment is not timely). By the amount of people who have already just walked into a store purchased and received their RS-1's, the pre-order has to be considerably smaller, and yet they might be able to satisfy that pre-order. Might!

TCB

05-18-07, 11:32 AM

Can I take someone's place on the preorder? That'd be pretty cool if I could have the savings. I'm willing to wait.

strange_brew

05-18-07, 11:40 AM

Sorry not tongue-in-cheek
You posted 12 minutes after Greg. So you subscribe to this thread
or you just want to hang around this thread see whats going on even though you have yoursI don't subscribe to this thread but, yes, I'm curious to see how things are progressing. That decision cost me $$$, so I've been watching to see if I made the right call.

By both of us leaving we moved you up the list. Why the hostility?

You wana support Greg send him a PMIf my posts annoy you then put me on your ignore list. I don't think that post was offside at all. What I don't understand is why you have to jump all over people who express their displeasure with the way this pre-buy has been handled - particularly in this thread (i.e., last post to MacDaddy29). People are entitled to their opinions, and clearly JVC is watching this thread. I think its entirely fair for them to know how this is impacting their business. You pre-ordered in Jan? Let's see how you feel about it in another 3 months like those that ordered in Nov.

EDIT: Scanning your other posts, I can see you have a history of, and obviously enjoy, making these types of negative, sarcastic comments so this is consistent with your contribution elsewhere.

santellavision

05-18-07, 11:46 AM

Tstites,

Thank you for the update on the shipping. Now... how about an update on the Firmware fixes we all need?

Larry J

05-18-07, 11:47 AM

Just to be clear here...we shipped substantially more than 81 units last month and whoever mentioned the 3000 number is clueless.

For obvious business reasons I'm not about to mention how many units we will be getting this month or any month, but I think we might be able to clear most if not all the AVS pre-orders this month as we are getting quite a few in.

AVS is not my account, so I can't speak to when and how many AVS will get this month, but based on the fact we're already getting shipments in, it will likely be a little earlier than in past months.

Cheers,

While personally I don't really care how many were shipped, but I really, really, REALLY hope there were more than 81 shipped last month. Actually I hope a lot more than 600 were shipped, considering JVC is suppose to be a somewhat large corporation. Also I don't think there are many places people can just walk in and get one, and they would only have a few probably.

If they aren't shipping any more than it sounds like they are, then I'm not even sure why the competition even considers them, well, competition.

tycoondog2

05-18-07, 11:55 AM

I don't subscribe to this thread but, yes, I'm curious to see how things are progressing. That decision cost me $$$, so I've been watching to see if I made the right call.

By both of us leaving we moved you up the list. Why the hostility?

If my posts annoy you then put me on your ignore list. I don't think that post was offside at all. What I don't understand is why you have to jump all over people who express their displeasure with the way this pre-buy has been handled - particularly in this thread (i.e., last post to MacDaddy29). People are entitled to their opinions, and clearly JVC is watching this thread. I think its entirely fair for them to know how this is impacting their business.

What do you do if you did not make the right call?

Me hostile, did you read Macdaddy29 post and your own before you cancelled.

Just make a desicion and live with it. It is unfortunate that JVC is not filling the orders as quickly as people would like, but ranting on here isn't going to speed things up.

Hows the sconce choice doing? Now thats tongue-in cheek :D

strange_brew

05-18-07, 12:05 PM

What do you do if you did not make the right call?Not sure why that should matter to you.

Me hostile, did you read Macdaddy29 post and your own before you cancelled.The difference is that it was expressing displeasure at the situation, not sending personal barbs to other forum members. There is no place here for personal attacks (which is why this will be my last post on the subject).

Just make a desicion and live with it. It is unfortunate that JVC is not filling the orders as quickly as people would like, but ranting on here isn't going to speed things up.Then why do you bother reading this thread at all? Reading things here isn't going to speed it up either. Its a DISCUSSION FORUM.

Conversation over.

tycoondog2

05-18-07, 12:21 PM

Not sure why that should matter to you.

The difference is that it was expressing displeasure at the situation, not sending personal barbs to other forum members. There is no place here for personal attacks (which is why this will be my last post on the subject).

Then why do you bother reading this thread at all? Reading things here isn't going to speed it up either. Its a DISCUSSION FORUM.

Conversation over.

No you came here and ranted and raved every couple of hours to the point you got so wound up you cancelled your order.

I just stated the obvious, if you can not wait for it cancel and buy elsewhere.
Jason said the same thing. But some people are going to tell all their friends and family not to buy JVC ( I am sure JVC will get right on that one)

You say conversion over, but I bet you read this

costa

05-18-07, 01:05 PM

He may or may not, but I did. There is no point of fighting amongst ourselves.
Some people, myself included, are not happy that JVC is not fulfilling their part of the deal and instead chose to fill out orders from other vendors instead. If no one said anything at all, then everyone would assume that we don't mind this is happening. Instead we complain here in hopes that JVC will get the message and AVS will also use this to apply some pressure to JVC. And yes, saying that you will not buy JVC, and telling all your friends not to, might have some significance to JVC (at least it should if they are interested in word to mouth advertisement...or whatever this is called).
If you don't care, if you don't mind, if you are happy waiting 6+ months for something you were told you will get before everyone else, then that doesn't make it wrong for me to not feel the same way you do.
Those of us unhappy with JVC don't come here and tell you that you SHOULD complain, but please come here and tell us that we should NOT complain.

tycoondog2

05-18-07, 01:23 PM

Costa

I don't know how you can say JVC did not live up to the deal, Do you know what the deal is? Did they promise to ship AVS 600 projectors by a certain date, I doubt it.

They can only make so many units per month. They have to ship each batch that comes in to various dealers all over the country. I doubt AVS was not the only dealer that ordered RS1's. I believe there are more places out of stock then those that have them. Perhaps AVS took on more orders the they could fill in the time frame people expected.

When a new product is in high demand it is hard to get your hands on one.

Watch what happens with the launch of the I-phone next month

Bear5k

05-18-07, 01:28 PM

From my perspective, if AVS had already parked a large charge or even an authorization on my credit card for the "pre-order", then I would be very upset that any inventory was going anywhere other than to me. However, I'm not currently out anything but time and anticipation, so I'm feeling a lot more sanguine about how this is going. Maybe a little too laid back, I guess, since my is wandering all the time (c'mon BenQ -- just one more price drop!).

I had originally guessed that this was a special program/promotion to seed a game-changing product into the hands of influential buyers. However, the longer this goes on, the more I an convinced that AVS did most of this on their own. Given the price AVS is offering, I'm happy that they are willing to go out on a limb like that to give me a good deal. From my assessment of JVC's predicament, the product is more than likely on allocation, and they have to keep their entire dealer base happy.

Folks have every reason to be irritated with how this is dragging on, but I would offer up the above as one interpretation of events that might help folks properly place an appropriate amount of blame on the right parties. Mostly I think this should be a commiseration thread, and agree that we should keep the rancor and infighting out. :)

Bill

gtimbers

05-18-07, 01:38 PM

RS1 from alternate dealer showed up as promised at 8:30 am yesterday. Unfortunately, I got the last one he had so this won't help any of you still waiting. I strongly believe the next shipment will come in late May for early June distribution. My concern was that the numbers did not seem to fill all of the orders in front of me. I decided to spend more money to alievate my concerns. Now that I have done this, I am pretty sure that the balance of the list will be filled quickly. That is how things go in the Universe. My decision has probably helped all of you that are waiting. Oh well! I am still pissed at JVC for the way they handled this situation and I would have gone with another product if I could have found one that met my needs as well as the RS1, but I couldn't.

I opened the thing up at the offfice, we had a Blu-ray handy and showed Ice Age 2 all day in a conference room. I had to guard the RS1 carefully as everyone wanted to bag it for themselves. It took 2 seconds to take out of the box, focus and start. The OTB setttings are very good. Those of you waiting WILL be very pleased.

When I got it home last night I blew the entire evening playing with things. A quick AVIA indicated a couple of numbers drop in contrast, brightness and color and that was it. Gamma C and A seem to be the ones; I haven't decided yet. I am using a 92" (D) Firehawk (G30 material). It looks great. Brighter than the sun. I have slight lightening in the conners but the natural falloff of the Firehawk actually helps this. It is absolutely not visible with material playing. I touched up the Red H and V shift 1 number and that was it. I have it on a box in front of me right under the Marantz VP12S1 which it will be replacing. The Marantz is ceiling mounted. I have the ability to put the RS1 behind my seating position also. I'll try that in the next few days and see which I prefer. I am currently at about 1.7 zoom. (1.4 - 2.8)

The picture is super smooth, very sharp and extremely vibrant. It has very good black levels although there is some hazing or clouding near black. That may well be a problem with the light reflection in my room rather than the projector. I do not have a bat cave although I can make my room very dark. I have mostly light colored walls due to it not being a dedicated HT room. With the Marantz none of this mattered. I will have to work on light reflection/absorption to maximize my black level performance.

Did I mention that you guys are going to be very happy. This thing is just awesome. With HD material, or even good upscaled SD (Toshiba A2) I can easily outperform all but the absolute best movie theaters. The Fifth Element, superbit, looks especially nice for an SD disc. I have Planet Earth in HD and it is beyond belief.

BTW, you guys will be very happy with your RS1 in case I haven't mentioned it. I will report more later, but I now have to leave town for 2 days which is not what I had planned but life must go on, I guess.

Greg

MikeSRC

05-18-07, 01:43 PM

Thanks for the report, but you should post it (and futher comments about the RS1) in the "Owner's" thread where it will be easier for those who are looking for information and opinions on the RS1 to find.

costa

05-18-07, 01:52 PM

My understanding is/was that the pre-order list/sale was authorized by JVC and the numbers were communicated to them (and accepted obviously), hence my (and everyone else's) frustration.
First bunch was small (the official explanation was that it was mainly to test out how good the quality is coming from Japan) and everyone accepted that.
Second bunch was larger but not enough (a big "that sucks" from everyone who didn't make it)
Third bunch was tiny and this is when the frustration started...but by that time, those of you not in the original pre-order list got a special discount and your frustrations got eased up. On the other hand, it has been 6+ months and I still haven't seen anything. Of course it did not help that my projector decided to kick the bucket on me back in December (I am thinking it was in protest of my decision to go for the RS1)

shodoug

05-18-07, 05:02 PM

The time is drawing near that JVC will no longer be able to make me happy, no matter what they do.

If they do not honor the agreement they made with me in a manner that seems to be ASAP from the last thread I posted, I will never buy one of their projectors again and I will never recommend them.

I do not like to be screwed around. Even though I am not out any money, that is exactly what they are doing.

I am not mad. I am not excited. This is just how I feel about the situation.

Hopefully they can remedy it shortly, because, in my case, they won't be able to later.

Best Regards,
Doug

JimmyR

05-18-07, 05:14 PM

"If they do not honor the agreement they made with me in a manner that seems to be ASAP from the last thread I posted, I will never buy one of their projectors again and I will never recommend them. "
................
I'm not trying to get you even more angry but I'm curious, what exactly was the "agreement" you say you entered into with JVC ?

Yosho

05-18-07, 05:41 PM

As I stated in one of the other threads about this, I'm not upset at JVC (or AVS) for the delay in production of the RS1... however, it obvious many people here are. There are probably still more like myself that hold no loyalty to JVC and would happily buy a different product in this price/performance range if it were to come out soon. The longer that JVC waits to fill the demand for the RS1, the higher the chances are that those sales will go to a different company. JVC has done a great job of producing a terrific product, at a great price, and generated a lot of buzz in the process... but it's all for naught if they don't generate the sales from it to drive the development of it's successor. As for AVS, they're already loosing some sales from people on the list buying from other resellers. So really the delay is a loose-loose situation. I wonder how many potential sales that JVC and AVS have lost out on over the last 5 months, too bad there's no way to know. Hopefully the distribution problems on the RS1 can be worked out soon and we can all see for ourselves how enjoyable it is instead of just reading the reviews of the lucky few who have purchased and received theirs already.

tstites

05-18-07, 05:53 PM

A few facts...

I understand a lot of you are frustrated, but understand this...RS1/HD1 sales worldwide are greatly exceeding expectations and obviously that has created a production backlog. I would say that sales expectations were perhaps overly conservative, tho not unwarranted given the number of decent 1080 products known to be in the market at a substantially lower price.

Also, please understand that some components have a 3-5 month lead time and increased production cannot be ramped up just by flipping a switch. I'm sure some of you have heard of "just in time" manufacturing...increasing production has a ripple effect down the line with suppliers. We are NOT having yield problems of any sort.

A manufacturer also has to be careful not to overreact to high initial demand that quickly drops off. A warehouse full of unsold inventory in this highly volatile market is not a good thing. This month and next, our increased production of RS1's will be evident and there is a very good chance we will finally clear all the AVS orders to date.

Contrary to the rumor and inuendo that circulates here, AVS did not get to order before our other dealers and distributors, tho they were among the first. We started taking orders from everyone as soon as we established the price. Pre-order meant that they took orders before the product started shipping, not that they ordered before everyone else. Product is being allocated as fairly as possible to all our channels. It is impossible for us to let AVS know how many units they will get until we see how many we'll end up with for the month and how critical everyone's backorders are.

I'm sorry some of you are having to wait longer than you expected or were lead to believe...we're doing our best to catch up as quickly as possible without letting the quality slip....something I'm sure each and every one of you will appreciate.

I fully understand if some of you are so upset you feel compelled to jump ship and buy something else...I'm sure Sharp, Marantz and Sony have plenty of product sitting on the shelf waiting for a good home...for good reason.

As a side note, we have already started receiving and shipping product for this month and will continue through the end of the month, Jason should start receiving product shortly.

Cheers,

sfogg

05-18-07, 06:06 PM

Hi Tom,

Do you know if the RS-1 can accept 10 bit 4:2:2 over HDMI? How about 12bit?

Thanks,

Shawn

JimmyR

05-18-07, 06:11 PM

So Tom, your saying JVC's RS1 assembly line (no matter the very high world wide demand ) does in no way resemble Lucile Ball trying to catch up when she worked in the chocolate factory ?

Opps, aplogies, Tycoondoggie told me to stay outta this thread.

Brad/Viper-Fan

05-18-07, 06:38 PM

[QUOTE=tstites]A few facts...
...we're doing our best to catch up as quickly as possible without letting the quality slip....something I'm sure each and every one of you will appreciate.

Indeed. I'd much rather wait a little longer to insure high quality, than have JVC rush orders out allowing quality to slip, because they underestimated demand.

IndifferentBozo

05-18-07, 06:43 PM

Tom,

Thanks for the update, I imagine it can be painful to post here as the residents are never out of questions, but we greatly appreciate the information. It's my experience that a little bit can go a long way to keeping anger from building up.

tycoondog2

05-18-07, 07:11 PM

Tom

It is so good to se that JVC never gave up on LCOS technology. It has been a long road since the early days of DILA. It is a shame that this forum went from one of pioneering to one of mainly bitching.

Jimmy I am sure you dated Ms Ball at sometime in your many years on this rock.

Mark it was great to hang out with you on St Thomas and talk about the good old days and Dilard and call jimmy so he stops buging me

Rob Tomlin

05-18-07, 07:37 PM

So Tom, your saying JVC's RS1 assembly line (no matter the very high world wide demand ) does in no way resemble Lucile Ball trying to catch up when she worked in the chocolate factory ?

:D

tstites

05-18-07, 07:41 PM

JimmyR, you're either very old or watching far to many "Golden Age of TV" reruns!

Everyone have a great weekend...TGIF!!!

Rob Tomlin

05-18-07, 07:46 PM

JimmyR, you're either very old or watching far to many "Golden Age of TV" reruns!

Everyone have a great weekend...TGIF!!!

Whew, I'm glad you posted again Tom. Leaving your post count at "666" would not have been a good thing, especially considering how some people in this thread already think that.........oh, never mind.

;)

tstites

05-18-07, 07:47 PM

sfogg

05-18-07, 07:53 PM

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the info.

Shawn

tbacos

05-18-07, 08:35 PM

I'll admit that my frustration is distributed equally towards JVC and AVS. All best-efforts and good intentions aside, neither company has produced results. Namely, to get many of us the product that we were told we would receive ~4 months ago, or to do anything to try to make up for it. At this point I would likely cancel my pre-order on principle, but the likelihood that someone else will just step in and buy the projector at a higher price has me in a bit of a quandry. Obviously the smart businessmen at JVC nor AVS would shed a tear if we pre-orderers took our business elsewhere, since representatives from both companies have literally come out and told us to do so. After all, for every one of us that cancels, another piece of inventory is freed up to sell to someone else at higher margins. Be rid of a whiner and make a few hundred extra bucks: win-win! :)

What is all boils down to is that JVC screwed up badly on demand forecasts. Since price is a huge component of demand, I guess we should all direct our frustration at the pricing team within JVC. Curse them for making a great product, offering it at a great price, and not being prophetic enough to realize the stampede that would ensue!! Yeah I know it's contradictory to complain about the very same low price that I applaud...life is full of contradictions.

-tony

Highjinx

05-18-07, 09:37 PM

Oops, meant to reply to Shawn's question about 10/12 bit color.

The HDMI hardware in the RS1 had to be nailed down before interface chips for higher color were readily available, so no, it does not support either and will not be upgraded to do so.

Cheers,

In that case, when can we expect to see an RS2/HD2 incorporating those desireable HDMI 1.3 features........soon?..............if so how soon?

sfogg

05-18-07, 10:04 PM

"In that case, when can we expect to see an RS2/HD2 incorporating those desireable HDMI 1.3 features........soon?..............if so how soon?"

10 and 12 bit 4:2:2 video does not require HDMI 1.3. It can be passed over HDMI 1.1 and probably 1.0 too. But obviously not all equipment supports it.

Shawn

Highjinx

05-18-07, 11:08 PM

shodoug

05-18-07, 11:56 PM

I'm not trying to get you even more angry but I'm curious, what exactly was the "agreement" you say you entered into with JVC ?

I know that it is probably hard to fathom that I am not angry, but I am really not.

If we were talking, instead of exchanging posts, it would be obvious, but text does not well carry so many things that help us communicate demeanor...

I also don't mind reasonable questions.

Now to answer your question:

In short, JVC has no agreement directly with me.

I am under the understanding that JVC authorized a preorder through AVS (and according to Tom's recent post, other distributors/resellers).

As far as I could tell, I was taking a preorder, so that I could get one of the first units.

Both JVC and AVS are business entities, and when they make an offer, it is their responsibility to make sure that it suits their own interests well enough to present the offer. Part of that (in my mind) includes making sure that they can actually deliver in the expected time frame.

If I accept an offer from someone, I expect them to be able to deliver. If JVC could not deliver projectors, then they should not have allowed their dealers to take preorders. ( and I do believe that JVC was definitely in on the idea of taking preorders, as well as unit pricing.)

I do not think that AVS organized these preorders in a vacuum, nor that JVC was not fully aware of the orders being placed, nor the number of orders being placed.

JVC is very quick to post positive information on this forum, (which I personally appreciate) so I feel that it is a reasonable assumption to make that they monitor the forum to a reasonable extent.

If JVC did take all these preorders, I would think it is very reasonable to conclude that they knew of the number of preorders at least by the end of November. (At least all those orders placed by AVS in the preorder, and any other orders at any other distributors placed before that.)

Now, we are told, there have been no problems in production with yield, and the only problems with meeting demand have been from planning. This is very reasonable and understandable.

However, if this is the case, then they should have been able to tell us in mid-December that there was no way that they could have completed the preorders taken (from AVS and all other sources) before June, and perhaps July.

If that had been the case, I would not have sold my Pearl to get the JVC back in February. I would be happily watching my Pearl, waiting for the JVC to finally come out.

JVC knew that I had entered into an agreement to buy their product from a distributor that had authorized to sell their projector. They knew that many people had ordered this projector. They knew that many of those people expected delivery reasonably soon after initial deliveries started in Q1. They knew that they would not meet these dates. It seems to reason that they knew back then that the orders cold not have possibly been filled faster than they have been.

Instead of letting the customers know that the dates would not be met, they just kept mum.

I guess the best way to communicate my thoughts about your question is that your logic leads to JVC basically not having any relationship with me whatsoever, except maybe through the warranty, after purchase.

It would mean that they only really have any relationships or agreements with their distributors. It would mean that they were really not a consumer electronics company, but a distributor electronics company.

In my line of work, my customer's customer is my customer. I really, really try hard to make sure that my customer's customer is well taken care of. I really want to do everything proper, so that my customer can take care of their customer in the best way possible. Sometimes that means I have to tell them that I will not be able to take care of the end customer until a certain date, and let them decide if they want to wait or find someone else to meet their needs on a shorter time schedule.

If I make an offer to my customer, and they make an offer to another customer based on that, I would never withhold information that would be substantially important to the end customer. I would never just ignore their needs, including their need for relevant information to make an informed decision.

That is what I feel JVC has done up to now.

If JVC wants to play the game that I am not their customer, but that only the distributors are their customers, I would appreciate them just coming out and telling me that. Then I would know not to be their customer.

I am sure that is really not their position. I am sure that they tried to maximize certain things and just tried to stretch things a little too far. I am sure that JVC does understand the importance of satisfying the end user.

Perceptions are real. I see no reason that I should not voice my perceptions here. JVC is perfectly free to take them or leave them, as are all others who read them.

I do take it to be a very good sign that Tom Stites is posting again. It means that there is good news. :) And good news is good news. As I have said before, I try to let people know what they need to do to make me happy, while it still will make me happy.

Then they can make their own decision about whether it is in their own best interest to make me happy. Usually, if it is not, I can still get my needs met somewhere else in time for me to be happy. I will not set myself up fro unhappiness, but changing to another projector after having just been strung along for months would definitely have a very profound impact on my personal impression of JVC.

In short, JVC had strung us along either in less units than they really could have provided, or less information than they really could have provided.

Pretending that I am not their customer is no defense for not living up to expectations I had, which were based on the actions and communications of JVC.

Others may feel differently.

Also, in case you are wondering, I can type responses here while relaxing and watching TV. I have not devoted my life to this projector or this preorder.

Sorry to have gone on so much, but you did ask. :)

Imagine if I was mad. :)

Best Regards,
Doug

shodoug

05-19-07, 12:04 AM

Thank you for the information, Tom.

It is nice to see you posting again.

Best Regards,
Doug

A few facts...

I understand a lot of you are frustrated, but understand this...RS1/HD1 sales worldwide are greatly exceeding expectations and obviously that has created a production backlog. I would say that sales expectations were perhaps overly conservative, tho not unwarranted given the number of decent 1080 products known to be in the market at a substantially lower price.

Also, please understand that some components have a 3-5 month lead time and increased production cannot be ramped up just by flipping a switch. I'm sure some of you have heard of "just in time" manufacturing...increasing production has a ripple effect down the line with suppliers. We are NOT having yield problems of any sort.

A manufacturer also has to be careful not to overreact to high initial demand that quickly drops off. A warehouse full of unsold inventory in this highly volatile market is not a good thing. This month and next, our increased production of RS1's will be evident and there is a very good chance we will finally clear all the AVS orders to date.

Contrary to the rumor and inuendo that circulates here, AVS did not get to order before our other dealers and distributors, tho they were among the first. We started taking orders from everyone as soon as we established the price. Pre-order meant that they took orders before the product started shipping, not that they ordered before everyone else. Product is being allocated as fairly as possible to all our channels. It is impossible for us to let AVS know how many units they will get until we see how many we'll end up with for the month and how critical everyone's backorders are.

I'm sorry some of you are having to wait longer than you expected or were lead to believe...we're doing our best to catch up as quickly as possible without letting the quality slip....something I'm sure each and every one of you will appreciate.

I fully understand if some of you are so upset you feel compelled to jump ship and buy something else...I'm sure Sharp, Marantz and Sony have plenty of product sitting on the shelf waiting for a good home...for good reason.

As a side note, we have already started receiving and shipping product for this month and will continue through the end of the month, Jason should start receiving product shortly.

Cheers,

zzzzdoc

05-19-07, 05:43 PM

Hey, I can't even get AVS to tell me what day I placed my pre-order. Tried via PM. Never got an answer. So I don't have a projector, have no idea if I'll be in the next wave, and don't even know if I'm close or not.

Trying very hard not to be pissed. And I've kept all my venom off the board intentionally.

This just isn't reasonable, and it isn't right.

JimmyR

05-19-07, 05:52 PM

PM's are not very reliable when it comes to reaching Jason.
SleepingDoc, try a phone call to Jason's number, I'm sure he can let you know where your are:).
315-538-9806: Direct
877-823-4452: Toll Free-Main Office

.

erkq

05-19-07, 05:53 PM

Tried via PM. Never got an answer.
I found them very responsive to a phone call.

tycoondog2

05-20-07, 08:32 AM

zzzzdoc

05-20-07, 10:40 AM

Note to self, next time I order something write it down

Jason wouldn't even tell me what I had last Sunday for Breakfast

Frankly, AVS has always been very responsive in the past. This board is the perfect example of that.

And who in their right mind would have thought that it would matter what day I bought this. Ooh. I'm on the 21st. Wow. Poor suckers on the 22nd. I mean, that's a crazy concept.

And, I originally placed the order when Jason called me back and I was in the OR. I had better things to do at the time then write down an exact time and date of the call.

MacDaddy29

05-21-07, 02:20 PM

Note to self, using the ignore button is really easy. :rolleyes:

TF Ghost

05-21-07, 02:41 PM

Note to self, using the ignore button is really easy. :rolleyes:

Note to self: Other people on AVS have seen Dirty Work.

Alan Gouger

05-21-07, 03:07 PM

zzzzdoc PM sent. I looked into this and indeed Jason responded to your PM but did not follow up with your second. I sent you your information and where you are on the list. You are indeed in the running for this batch but please note we have yet to receive any official information from JVC on qty and when we are getting the next batch so we do not like to speculate until it is official. Other then what weve all read from Tom posting to this thread we know no more then you at this point. With that, if the rumored volume ships or close to it you will be in this batch. Hope this helps.

sfogg

05-21-07, 03:12 PM

"With that, if the rumored volume ships or close to it you will be in this batch."

Now that is just a big tease to the rest of us.......... :)

Shawn (hoping zzzzdoc is behind me....)

zzzzdoc

05-21-07, 04:28 PM

Thanks, Alan. I appreciate your getting back to me.

Oh, and Shawn. :p

Alan Gouger

05-21-07, 04:43 PM

Your welcome!

tbacos

05-22-07, 07:37 AM

Somebody bake half a birthday cake and order a clown with half his face covered in terrifying make-up. Today is the half-birthday of many of our RS1 "pre-orders." I know it only feels like yesterday, but it's true. They grow up so fast! A mere 6 months ago to this day I handed my credit card number over to AVS in giddy anticipation of receiving my new projector.

Oh to be young and full of hope again!

Rob Tomlin

05-22-07, 11:56 AM

Alan Gouger

05-22-07, 12:01 PM

tbacos

Yup 6 months, went by fast. Whats more sad is how old we are getting and not aware of how fast time is passing by. This is a reminder.
You ordered at the very end of the pre order time frame. If you read my last few posts if JVC does indeed come through on the volume of this delivery your wait will soon be over. CC are never charged until shipping confirmation so if you find one elsewhere sooner no one would blame you for grabbing it but the shortage is world wide, these things are scarce and all dealers are in the same boat waiting for the next batch.
If all goes well your next post will be one of joy!

Caspyr

05-22-07, 12:28 PM

You ordered at the very end of the pre order time frame...if JVC does indeed come through on the volume of this delivery your wait will soon be over. .....If all goes well your next post will be one of joy!

Please please please please.....

Never thought I would tire of watching movies on a 50" plasma, but it sucks....:-)

Makomachine

05-22-07, 12:37 PM

I don't even watch movies anymore - got a 50" Panny myself but that is just WAY too SMALL for movies. The wait is a little more easy to take on my part as I wait for the screen as well - once that 123" SilverStar arrives - it's going to get really tough....

Alan Gouger

05-22-07, 01:15 PM

From 50" to 123" thats going to make the plasma look like a postage stamp.

Caspyr what size screen will you be using.

imlucid

05-22-07, 01:18 PM

When I went from my 55" TV to a 96" wide screen, it was crazy big. Now that I'm waiting for my RS-1 and hearing all the larger screens out there, mine is looking a bit small. Seems like I could fit another 10-20"...

:D

Makomachine

05-22-07, 01:22 PM

From 50" to 123" thats going to make the plasma look like a postage stamp.

The 50" already looks small as it is a 'downgrade' from a Pio Elite 64" RP CRT - with the theater just waiting on screen and PJ I can't even stomach watching any movies on that small TV. :D

My family and friends think we are sick when we talk about our second TV being a 50" plasma - they just don't get it....yet...

Buttabean

05-22-07, 02:23 PM

Since my fire i've yet to watch a movie at home since january. Just not the same watching anything other then tv on a 50" plasma with no stereo. I'm so spoiled now :(. Friday my house will be done and hopefully i'm near getting the rs1 so I can watch the 20+ movies awaiting :). Can't Wait!!!

Caspyr

05-22-07, 03:10 PM

From 50" to 123" thats going to make the plasma look like a postage stamp.

Caspyr what size screen will you be using.

I already have a 123". My old projector fried a couple months ago, so I have been stuck watching everything in the family room...

And 50" DOES look like a postage stamp when your used to the 123!!!

Alan Gouger

05-22-07, 03:24 PM

My family and friends think we are sick when we talk about our second TV being a 50" plasma - they just don't get it....yet...

I was going to say, I dont think you will find many feeling sorry for anyone limited to a 50" plasma. Its something only we in the FP forum would understand.

Im noticing the trend with everyone going with larger screen sizes. 10 feet and up is slowly becoming common.

Rob Tomlin

05-22-07, 03:32 PM

Im noticing the trend with everyone going with larger screen sizes. 10 feet and up is slowly becoming common.

Diagonal or width?

:)

Alan Gouger

05-22-07, 03:40 PM

Diagonal or width?

:)

I would say theres a good split with the benefit going to the diagonal. 235:1 is really catching on as well at 10 feet wide and up. Amazing. As soon as you think your on the cutting edge someone is always surpassing you :)

Rob Tomlin

05-22-07, 03:44 PM

I would say theres a good split with the benefit going to the diagonal. 235:1 is really catching on as well at 10 feet wide and up. Amazing. As soon as you think your on the cutting edge someone is always surpassing you :)

Exactly Alan, and that's why I asked the question! My screen is "only" 9 feet wide. If 10 feet wide is now the norm, I would feel very "inadequate". ;)

kiwishred

05-22-07, 04:11 PM

Since my fire i've yet to watch a movie at home since january. Just not the same watching anything other then tv on a 50" plasma with no stereo.Know what you mean about that. Since my basement flooded in December '06 I havn't watched any movies either. I am still looking forward to watching Lost in HD on my EyeTV/17" diagonal 4:3 CRT monitor and headphones though :o

One thing that is nice about not having a room to install a projector in at the moment though is I am not going through the angst that a lot of you nth-wavers are. I am using the "delay the purchase decsion to the last possible moment" strategy.

Brent

Alan Gouger

05-22-07, 04:35 PM

I am still looking forward to watching Lost in HD on my EyeTV/17" diagonal 4:3 CRT monitor and headphones though :o

Now that deserves some sympathy :)

wildfire99

05-22-07, 06:01 PM

Exactly Alan, and that's why I asked the question! My screen is "only" 9 feet wide. If 10 feet wide is now the norm, I would feel very "inadequate".
How you can watch "Lawrence" on anything less than 12 feet wide.... :)

One thing that is nice about not having a room to install a projector in at the moment though is I am not going through the angst that a lot of you nth-wavers are. I am using the "delay the purchase decsion to the last possible moment" strategy.
I've been holding onto my projector money since... the AVS pre/power buy on the Sony Ruby getting onto 2 years ago (which also had a big delay as I recall). I just couldn't spend small car money on something that took $1k bulbs. It seems to me that some people still say that the Ruby is 'close enough' to the RS-1. I keep wanting to fall prey to the new AVS hype and sell the RS-1 and get an Epson or Panny 1080 LCD, but the RS-1 still isn't good enough for me (no CRT blacks). So even with the latest and greatest there's no guarantee it will be totally satisfactory. You get the best you can and then try to ignore this forum. :)

tbacos

05-22-07, 06:50 PM

Alan Gouger

05-22-07, 07:04 PM

Simon says: Everyone still in line, please take one step forward.

6 months was my limit - I'm gonna sit this one out...

-tony

With Cedia a few months around the corner you may end up thanking JVC for the delay :)

santellavision

05-22-07, 07:19 PM

With Cedia a few months around the corner you may end up thanking JVC for the delay :)Yeah, but... A few months until an announcement of the new 'hot' PJ. Then, the prebuy list starts, then 6 more months to get the darn thing. Then 2 days until they find the first horrible flaw.

Some of us are dyin' out here! There's no way I can wait another 8-9 months.

Alan Gouger

05-22-07, 08:19 PM

Ernie

Last Cedia Sony shipped much faster ( with in a month of the show ) then the previous year for the Ruby which had its share of delays. Some may decide to wait it out. My comment was an alternative to those sitting this one out. If I am not mistaken I think the Mits shared a months long delay as well. I hope this does not become the norm :o
Tom gave us hints we are close to the next shipment which if all goes well will take care of the pre orders:) I would guess other dealers will gain stock as well so there will be alternative avenues to getting one of these very shortly.

Then 2 days until they find the first horrible flaw.

Aint that the truth :)

Rob Tomlin

05-22-07, 08:28 PM

How you can watch "Lawrence" on anything less than 12 feet wide.... :)

Ouch. That was like shooting an arrow right through the middle of my heart!

;)

Alan Gouger

05-22-07, 08:36 PM

Ouch. That was like shooting an arrow right through the middle of my heart!

;)

I often use a 7 foot wide scope screen. Everything looks really great on it including DVDs but HD really rocks.

costa

05-22-07, 10:07 PM

Tony, you had that song "tears of a clown" stuck in my head all day! :mad: :)

I sort of agree with you decision to pull out. 6 months is not just late...it is unacceptable. I would had pulled out myself as well, had I not been stubborn and refuse to let JVC make more money out of selling it to someone else (maybe doesn't make sense, but it works for me). Of course being out of a pj for 6 months now I am hoping I get something quickly (oh please Sony have a new pj in the next 2 weeks and then I can tell JVC what to do with their delay!)

smithfarmer

05-22-07, 11:03 PM

With Cedia a few months around the corner you may end up thanking JVC for the delay :)
JVC,

I thank you for the delay. You have provided me with plenty of time to read all of the feedback from those forum members who were ahead of me on the preorder list. As a matter of fact, I have read enough to decide that the RS1 is not the pj for me.

Alan, please put me on the preorder list for the RS2.

tbacos

05-23-07, 12:40 AM

6 months is not just late...it is unacceptable.

Was to me.

JVC,

I thank you for the delay. You have provided me with plenty of time to read all of the feedback from those forum members who were ahead of me on the preorder list. As a matter of fact, I have read enough to decide that the RS1 is not the pj for me.

Nothing I read left me any less certain that I would flat-out love the RS1. It was only the time. For consumer electronic pre-orders, I draw the waiting line at the average gestation period of the baboon, and not a day more. A man has to have principles.

With Cedia a few months around the corner you may end up thanking JVC for the delay

Nope. JVC is dead to me. Those three letters have gradually oozed their way into that corner of my psyche previously occupied by a few choice TLA's like IRS, PMS, and KKK. June Version Coming? No thanks.

In all seriousness, the wait was long enough that I would be guaranteed to read all about the better and cheaper next generation PJs before I could even get my RS1 broken in. If I went through with the RS1 purchase after 7(?) months of waiting, the next-day announcement of a 10% cheaper, 50% quieter, 20% brighter, 90% more tweakable RS2 or Sony just might make blood shoot out of my eyes. And *that* would both void the warranty on my Lasik and make the lack of proper calibration access on the RS1 ("must...have...lesss... RED!!") even more frustrating.