www.betterespresso.com/product/980

Looks like a Krell or an Audio Research amplifier.. Just got an Andreja premium espresso machine and I love it! All those Bloomindale's espresso machines look like garbage by comparison.

It does look impressive! Can you plumb it directly into the water supply?

Check also the Alex at
www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/espresso/alex

It has a quieter rotary pump but it is not as pretty as the Andreja in my opinion..

It does look impressive! Can you plumb it directly into the water supply?

Yes you can with some more hardware but I don't think the water would be filtered.. other similar machines come outright with direct connect and filters.

In any case those machines are dirty cheap compared to some of those fully automatic $3,000+ plastic machines sold in consumer stores..

Well I'd be plumbing from a good drinking water system anyway.

Anyway this the coffee machine for the guy who has a turntable or two :D

How about a vegetable juicer instead :)

Doc, this web site (http://www.coffeegeek.com/) has a ton of useful information about everything coffee, including espresso machines. Richie's/Refugio's Andreja Premium gets quite favorable reviews.

A good grinder is vital to good espresso.. Reason why one would want a not fully automatic espresso machine with a separate grinder or two on the side.. This coffee business is not unlike with a turntable..

How about a vegetable juicer instead :)

I have a Breville stainless steel with which I make apple juice.

Jura Capresso Z5 is the best espresso machine IMO: and it is fully automatic: just keep it full of water and beans

http://www.stepup.com/product/obg-CAPRESSO-Jura-Impressa-Z5-Automatic-Espresso-Cappuccino-Maker-13214-1508-msp58044612

where is the good Doctor?

I would never buy a $3,000 consumer espresso machine. Look first at what you can get for a $3,000 commercial grade espresso machine.. For fully automatic home use machine I would get a SAECO INCANTO SIRIUS ot a GAGGIA TITANUIM PLUS (same companies) which cost no more than $1,500; they even look like a coffee machine:

www.seattlecoffeegear.com/Gaggia-Titanium-Plus-p/scg10943.htm

the Z5 also makes regular coffee:

come over and I will make you some coffee and espresso anytime :)

Yes, The Breville is awesome... My favorite.

Coffee? Never tried it... I went thru residency and never needed the stuff... BWAH!!

www.gaggia.com/macchine-da-caffe.asp?macchine-caffe-professionali-manuali_56_GE-GD-One

The problem with full commercial grade coffee machines is electricity. They consume a lot of electricity.

Mark, FWIW, I'm with you that the Jura is the king of fully automatic machines and I would love to own one. Having stated that, however, it is not in the same league as that Andreja Premium or any number of manual pull or semi-automatic machines.
This (http://www.coffeegeek.com/proreviews/detailed/juracapressos9) is a review of the Jura S9 that, while not the same as the Z5, accurately states the following:
How does this product stack up? You'll have to read the review to find out. But I'll preface by saying this - the Jura-Capresso S9 has become our standard bearer benchmark for consumer super automatics. As such, our rating at the end of the review reflects how it rates against other super automatics. If the rating seems a bit high, keep this in mind - against a Rancilio Silvia, or an Isomac Tea, it'd probably garner a 4 or 5. Against other super automatics, the rating this machine gets is well deserved.
* * *
As I saw the shot develop, well, it was no La Marzocco; heck, it wasn't even a Silvia. But as the crema formed, it had the look of "real" crema, not that false blond stuff that so many super autos seem to churn out. The crema wasn't as dark as I'd expect from a handcrafted shot, but it was a pleasing medium-dark golden brown, and looked like real crema, not "pressurized adapter" fake stuff.

The shot wasn't spectacular, it was on the thin side (the too fast extraction), but it was something I'd rank higher than pod espresso, and even higher than any "crema enhancer" espresso that you might get from a machine like the Solis SL70 (with the pressurized baskets) or a Saeco or Starbucks Barista.

Now one can't make good coffee without the proper beans.. The Mouton-Rothschild of coffee beans is Baggio Platinum from the estate of the Baggio family in Brazil..
It can be order here:

www.brainybean.com/products.asp?cid=2128573&cat=fresh-gourmet-coffee

the Z5 also makes regular coffee:

come over and I will make you some coffee and espresso anytime :)

I am affraid your machine would fare poorly against mine.. Are you ISF by any chance :D ?? (they have done miracles to coffee machines, too)

Jura Capresso Z5 is the best espresso machine IMO: and it is fully automatic: just keep it full of water and beans

http://www.stepup.com/product/obg-CAPRESSO-Jura-Impressa-Z5-Automatic-Espresso-Cappuccino-Maker-13214-1508-msp58044612

where is the good Doctor?

Forget about what Refugio (aka Richie) says, I, like Mark Rubin feel the best machine I have ever owned is the Jura Capresso Z5 or their posh Z6. It too has a Burr grinder

I've had my Andreja Premium for about a year now and love it. Super-automatics are not for me. I also roast my own beans which is great and saves a lot of money especially if you're pulling 21g triples every day. My wife can't stand the roasting but hey, priorities.

Pulling a shot.
http://jhbrett.googlepages.com/guat.jpg/guat-large.jpg

Andreja and Rocky. When you read that the grinder is equally, if not more important than the espresso machine believe it. It's a solid grinder and a good value.
http://jhbrett.googlepages.com/andreja1.jpg/andreja1-large.jpg

Inadvertant latte art. I call this one "pterodactyl"
http://jhbrett.googlepages.com/art01.jpg/art01-large.jpg

The 4 M's of espresso.
-La Macchina (the machine)
-La Miscela (the blend of coffee)
-La Macinadosatore (the grind and dose)
-La Mano (the barista or operator)

The problem with full commercial grade coffee machines is electricity. They consume a lot of electricity.

well Richie--all you need are some great Valhalla power cords and you will have great coffee. Now with the Z5 OTOH you don't need this to get the very best coffee

I've had my Andreja Premium for about a year now and love it. Super-automatics are not for me. I also roast my own beans which is great and saves a lot of money especially if you're pulling 21g triples every day. My wife can't stand the roasting but hey, priorities.
That Rocky is outstanding. Are you roasting in- or out-doors?

Hi,
At home I use Z5 and I love its consistency.
At work I have a fully manual Marzocco with appropriate grider.
It's true that I can get better expresso from this machine but it happens every 3rd or so pull.
Quick question to Z5 owners. Are you guys using factory or custom settings for your expressos and capucinos?

Cheers,
Richard

The 4 M's of espresso.
-La Macchina (the machine)
-La Miscela (the blend of coffee)
-La Macinadosatore (the grind and dose)
-La Mano (the barista or operator)[/QUOTE]

Macchine :rolleyes:

well Richie--all you need are some great Valhalla power cords and you will have great coffee. Now with the Z5 OTOH you don't need this to get the very best coffee

The Z5 does not have a removable power cord :p

Look your Z5 looks like a $300 coffee machine; my Andreja looks like a priceless coffee machine made by Cartier. Just looking at it makes me shudder.. It hypnotises women and gives you a few minutes opening.. They'll come to your place to check your coffee machine.

That Rocky is outstanding. Are you roasting in- or out-doors?

I roast in the garage during the winter but still open the doors to get the smoke out. Roast on the patio when it's warm out and not raining. I roast using the classic stainless steel dog bowl and electric heat gun method which works pretty darn well and allows for finite control of the process. I can use more senses with this method than with a dedicated roasting device. No trying to look through a thick distorted peice of glass to see the beans. Eyes, ears, nose, and practice.

If you are a vinyl and tube kind of person....it has got to be a La Pavoni.....

I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm with Richie on this one.
What's next?
A turntable and 5,000 LPs? ;)

PS No espresso for me, just my french press and organic kona beans...

Quick question to Z5 owners. Are you guys using factory or custom settings for your expressos and capucinos?


I use all custom settings

The Z5 does not have a removable power cord

Correct

I was referring to your contraption

my Andreja looks like a priceless coffee machine made by Cartier. Just looking at it makes me shudder.. It hypnotises women and gives you a few minutes opening.. They'll come to your place to check your coffee machine.
Why do I suddenly feel like I'm back in high school?

Coffee is the greatest addiction in our society.

I am glad i just stuck with something simple... Heroin!

:D :D :D :D :D

Another Z5 user here. I use custom settings. Take an hour out of your schedule and all the bases are covered. The best machine on the planet. Ive been using Jura for a long time and they are the kings of coffee pwnage. Used with the new cup warmer this is the shiznit.

Another Z5 user here. I use custom settings. Take an hour out of your schedule and all the bases are covered. The best machine on the planet. Ive been using Jura for a long time and they are the kings of coffee pwnage. Used with the new cup warmer this is the shiznit.

I agree completely


I too use all custom settings

Hi

I am in a great mood this morning and stumbled on that OT thread... I am going to try some trolling just like the anti-cable people, to know what it feels like...

I do not drink coffee

Frantz my friend, I do remember that when you came to visit me and I could not entice you into drinking coffee. Some great coffee comes from Haiti. I did however get you to enjoy sushi with some Sake. That was a fun weekend.

I used to be a barista for 3 1/2 years. I am very partial to the La cimballi machines. Check them out.
http://www.ifyoulovecoffee.com/machines/cimballi/cimballi.htm
Perfect shots everytime.

Frantz my friend, I do remember that when you came to visit me and I could not entice you into drinking coffee. Some great coffee comes from Haiti. I did however get you to enjoy sushi with some Sake. That was a fun weekend.

...And got me hooked to Sushi which up to this point, I was indifferent to, now I am looking around for sushi places trying to get the same incredible experience I had in Danville...

the Z5 also makes regular coffee..



Mark, Refugio, et al:

I am interested in a machine that will make good espresso (defined as very strong coffee with relatively low total liquid volume), but more importantly will make regular coffee, but not by the drip method.

I had success making good "regular" coffee with a fairly primitive Krups espresso machine by filling the coffee compartment completely with ground coffee and simply using more water.

Are all the machines you guys are discussing here capable of that?

Also, I like to grind the beans myself, so I am not interested in machines that only accept pre-packaged coffee cartridges or whatnot.

Thanks for any suggestions, guys.

Hi

I really wonder what does an espresso machine has to do with HT? Maybe to keep you awake when watching bad movies at friend's HTs...

<Screaming> Mark!!!??/ Mark Rubin???!!! :D

Mark, Refugio, et al:

I am interested in a machine that will make good espresso (defined as very strong coffee with relatively low total liquid volume), but more importantly will make regular coffee, but not by the drip method.

I had success making good "regular" coffee with a fairly primitive Krups espresso machine by filling the coffee compartment completely with ground coffee and simply using more water.

Are all the machines you guys are discussing here capable of that?

Also, I like to grind the beans myself, so I am not interested in machines that only accept pre-packaged coffee cartridges or whatnot.

Thanks for any suggestions, guys.

It's called the Z5

Wojtek, yes the Z5 or Z6 can do all that and much more. You can programme the grind, fineness, temp, coffee grams, water volume etc etc into multiple memories. Auto cappucino if you want, one button latte also. The cup warmer is also a must have. These machines have full automated cleaning. Just top up with beans and water once in a while. They use proper high pressure for full extraction of flavor and waste grind is in the form of dry compressed cake. A Z5 runs at about $3000 these days i believe.

The crema these machines deliver is utterly sublime. I can no longer order coffee when dining out as i am always dissapointed.

I used to be a barista for 3 1/2 years. I am very partial to the La cimballi machines. Check them out.
http://www.ifyoulovecoffee.com/machines/cimballi/cimballi.htm
Perfect shots everytime.

My wish list: La Marczocco or perhaps a Synesso - dual boilers and a saturated brew head.

Dual boiler and a rotary pump: Vivaldi II; $1,900


www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/espresso/laspaziales1

Pffft. Amateurs.

http://www.idealcoffee.com/images/vending_coffee_big.jpg

Chris, were talking about quality coffe here, not a run-off pipe from a public urinal.

Wojtek, yes the Z5 or Z6 can do all that and much more. You can programme the grind, fineness, temp, coffee grams, water volume etc etc into multiple memories. Auto cappucino if you want, one button latte also. The cup warmer is also a must have. These machines have full automated cleaning. Just top up with beans and water once in a while. They use proper high pressure for full extraction of flavor and waste grind is in the form of dry compressed cake. A Z5 runs at about $3000 these days i believe.

The crema these machines deliver is utterly sublime. I can no longer order coffee when dining out as i am always dissapointed.

Actually $3200

The Z6 is $3600

Why so many people drink coffee is beyond me... Well, at least it isn't cigarettes I suppose...

As i said before, go for something easy to kick as a habit... like heroin.

WHen my wife was going to get pregnant, she decided to kick coffee (she was only a cup or two a day person) she had a headache for a week solid.

Although, we both enjoy a nice cup of one of them fancy brews every once in a while.

As i said before, go for something easy to kick as a habit... like heroin.

WHen my wife was going to get pregnant, she decided to kick coffee (she was only a cup or two a day person) she had a headache for a week solid.

Although, we both enjoy a nice cup of one of them fancy brews every once in a while.


I remember those headaches well Dizz

BTW, time to post some upddated photos on those twins

WHen my wife was going to get pregnant, she decided to kick coffee (she was only a cup or two a day person) she had a headache for a week solid.
I took a 6 week bar exam prep class at Boalt Hall (UC Berkeley, for those who care or don't know) and every day at about noon, after class was over, I'd get an espresso shot at the espresso shop across the street, then study and cram 'til about midnight. Their espresso was known for being particularly strong. One afternoon, about 2 weeks into the program, I felt particularly energyless so I ordered a double. I got the jitters so bad I was unable to study or eat at all the rest of the day. I decided to give up coffee until I finished the exam. That first week I had that same headache your wife had. Interestingly, though, after that week I found I could study with far greater focus and memorize significantly larger quantities of information in far less time. After the exam I returned to having my daily coffee - I mean, after all, there were perfectly good reasons for drinking it in the first place.

Well, OK...

http://bp1.blogger.com/_KCV4wu9PqOc/Rjbo74LuyvI/AAAAAAAAAKo/VptX7AyNUq0/s400/18+mos.jpg

My how they grow.

It's called the Z5

No. It is called the Andreja. Any of those E-61 commercial group coffee machines producing commercial grade steam and hot water will make you an "americano", as they call it. Just pour a little hot water in your espresso and voila! The French call an "americano" , a watery coffee, du "jus de chaussette" proper (chausette means sock). Why does one need a $3,000 coffee machine to specifically make bad coffee?? :rolleyes:

Mark, Refugio, et al:

I am interested in a machine that will make good espresso (defined as very strong coffee with relatively low total liquid volume), but more importantly will make regular coffee, but not by the drip method.

I had success making good "regular" coffee with a fairly primitive Krups espresso machine by filling the coffee compartment completely with ground coffee and simply using more water.

Are all the machines you guys are discussing here capable of that?

Also, I like to grind the beans myself, so I am not interested in machines that only accept pre-packaged coffee cartridges or whatnot.

Thanks for any suggestions, guys.

You should start doing some reading on coffeegeek.com and homebarista.com. You can approximate regular coffee by topping espresso with hot water. This is called an Americano. The type of brew you are referring to is called a longo, but in my eyes it is just forcing too much water through too little coffee. If you like good espresso you should buy a good espresso machine with a hot water tap and pick up a french press for "regular" coffee. IMHO no longo or Americano can beat a good cup of press coffee. chriscoffee.com is a good place to start shopping. They can't be beat for service and support. Many of the machines that they sell are upgraded to their spec by the manufacturer. I have no relationship to them other than being a satisfied customer. If you give them a call they may have a return/refurb of the model you want. I saved a few hundred on my Andreja this way.

/off to pull a triple :)

Beautiful

Anastasia looks just like Roxan and Christopher just like you. What more could you ask for?

Actually $3200

The Z6 is $3600


Actually $2995, thats what I paid.

[QUOTE=BroodishProdigy]You should start doing some reading on coffeegeek.com and homebarista.com. You can approximate regular coffee by topping espresso with hot water. This is called an Americano. The type of brew you are referring to is called a longo, but in my eyes it is just forcing too much water through too little coffee. If you like good espresso you should buy a good espresso machine with a hot water tap and pick up a french press for "regular" coffee. IMHO no longo or Americano can beat a good cup of press coffee...QUOTE]

I have 5 french press, noblesse oblige :cool: . A french press makes the best "regular" coffee, although one can make very thick almost solid Turquish coffee with a french press

Dual boiler and a rotary pump: Vivaldi II; $1,900


www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/espresso/laspaziales1

Nice machine, but it's not in the same league as La Marczocco or a Synesso.
.

Actually $2995, thats what I paid.

http://www.capresso.com/prod_super_z5.html

The Vivaldi II is only $1,900! Steam and hot water are phenomenal on this machine.

BTW, when I ordered some new Claris filters last week from the company the lady I spoke to intimated that there is a new machine in the works but wouldn't (or couldn't) be more specific.

Why does one need a $3,000 coffee machine to specifically make bad coffee??

you French wouldn't know good coffee if you were drowning in it

http://www.capresso.com/prod_super_z5.html

As I said, I only paid $2995.

As I said, I only paid $2995.

you are one lucky guy as they keep strict control of retail prices.

I have one better however. I used my S9 for a whole year and the company took it back with a FULL MSRP refund. I paid only $700 to get my Z5

The Vivaldi II is only $1,900! Steam and hot water are phenomenal on this machine.

It's a great machine. When I bought my Rancilio S24 6 years ago it was the only "semi-pro" model on the market. It does a great job, but does not have a rotary pump or double boiler. It makes a great cup of coffee. I likely would have gone with the Vivaldi if it were available, athough I'm not crazy about the non-standard sized group head.
Yet, my next kitchen remodel will include either a LM or a Synesso. :D

you are one lucky guy as they keep strict control of retail prices.

I have one better however. I used my S9 for a whole year and the company took it back with a FULL MSRP refund. I paid only $700 to get my Z5

Good result> I could never be without a good bean to cup machine, and i trust and value jura above others who make "similar" products. I used to work with a couple of Europeans a while back who both had Juras... I was an instant convert. As for the french... I will not be told what is good coffee by a "Cheese eating surrender monkey".

you French wouldn't know good coffee if you were drowning in it

You are totally new to espresso coffee here in the US. All the espresso machines are made in Italy. Jus de chausette is you favorite coffee. I have been around espresso machines longuer than I have been around amplifiers.

You are totally new to espresso coffee here in the US. All the espresso machines are made in Italy. Jus de chausette is you favorite coffee. I have been around espresso machines longuer than I have been around amplifiers.

I have owned espresso machines of one make or another for at least 20 years and IMO the Z5 is simple enough for even the French to figure out how to use.

I've had my Andreja Premium for about a year now and love it.
Pulling a shot.
http://jhbrett.googlepages.com/guat.jpg/guat-large.jpg

The 4 M's of espresso.
-La Macchina (the machine)
-La Miscela (the blend of coffee)
-La Macinadosatore (the grind and dose)
-La Mano (the barista or operator)
This is the best looking shot I've ever seen. Wow!
I usually go to Panera Bread to get my shot of fresh espresso.

Espresso is more than just the four M's. There are dozens of important factors that cannot be summed up in a few quick sentences. Like humidity, temperature and tamping pressure. Everything needs to be fine tuned for your particular machine. But the results are worth it. I hope to follow in your path if it is cost effective.

America is largely a wasteland of wooden coffee and Hershey’s wax chocolate.
But now McDonalds is selling premium coffee (which was rated higher than the Starbucks junkie shots). They have just begun selling iced coffee. What’s next espresso? :)

To be clear: the McDonald's/Starbucks comparison was apples to apples; that is, they were comparing drip coffees. Espresso was not considered. (To me "junkie shots" implied espresso...)

http://www.consumerreports.org:80/cro/food/coffee-taste-test-3-07/overview/0307_coffee_ov_1.htm?resultPageIndex=1&resultIndex=1&searchTerm=starbucks

At the moment I own a Saeco superauto. My wife drinks mochas, and for that it's entirely sufficient, but for anything else it's mediocre. The strength of any superauto is its consistency, but the challenge is getting it dialed in just right. With my Saeco it's not possible.

Sounds like the higher-end Jura's might very well have what it takes... barring that, Refugio's new machine does look pretty darn cool. I'm just not interesting in getting anal about it too much though; it just doesn't get my passion up.

I have owned espresso machines of one make or another for at least 20 years and IMO the Z5 is simple enough for even the French to figure out how to use.


Then you have owned bad espresso machines for twenty years because a Z5 makes jus de chaussette by comparaison to an Andreja modified and tweaked to the hilt, fed with estate grown beans ground with love and care. It is not in the same league.

OK, i have seen the "my ___ is bigger than yours" with cars, amps, speakers etc. I had no idea it could extend to coffee makers.

I would say it is silly but i guess this is more important than cars, amps, speakers etc, to many.

THanks Doc.

Why do I suddenly feel like I'm back in high school?

Turn the levers, blow some steam and they'll jump on your lap. Can't do that with a Z5.

Wojtek, yes the Z5 or Z6 can do all that and much more. You can programme the grind, fineness, temp, coffee grams, water volume etc etc into multiple memories. Auto cappucino if you want, one button latte also. The cup warmer is also a must have. These machines have full automated cleaning. Just top up with beans and water once in a while. They use proper high pressure for full extraction of flavor and waste grind is in the form of dry compressed cake. A Z5 runs at about $3000 these days i believe.

The crema these machines deliver is utterly sublime. I can no longer order coffee when dining out as i am always dissapointed.

Thanks, coldmachine and oneobgyn.

Q: Will the Z9 do the trick of making good Americano, either by selecting 6 oz of water volume and the proper amount of grind or by adding hot water to an espresso proper?

From the description of Z9 it looks like it will - just looking for confirmation.

Thanks, coldmachine and oneobgyn.

Q: Will the Z9 do the trick of making good Americano, either by selecting 6 oz of water volume and the proper amount of grind or by adding hot water to an espresso proper?

From the description of Z9 it looks like it will - just looking for confirmation.


I think that you mean the S9 Impressa by Jura. I had that one before the Z5 as did our moderator Mark Rubin. It makes every bit as excellent coffee and espresso. it is just not programmable like the Z5 but great nonetheless

Turn the levers, blow some steam and they'll jump on your lap. Can't do that with a Z5.Well, I dunno, I was tempted to jump in OB's lap after he drew me a shot on his Z5.

Turn the levers, blow some steam and they'll jump on your lap

For a second there i thought the conversation had turned to another great male pastime!

Xbox360?

Well, I dunno, I was tempted to jump in OB's lap after he drew me a shot on his Z5.

It's really sad if you'll do a lap dance for a cup of coffee! :D

you French wouldn't know good coffee if you were drowning in it

Doc,
I know you're caught in a male appendage sizing battle but that statement was unfortunate.

You're all riled up by our resident frenchie boy here and you're embarrassing yourself.

Doc,
I know you're caught in a male appendage sizing battle but that statement was unfortunate.

You're all riled up by our resident frenchie boy here and you're embarrassing yourself.


Actually, I enjoyed his sarcasm...

Actually, I enjoyed his sarcasm...

so do many others here

Sorry Andrikos. Whether it be a Z5, amp, preamp, TT or whatever our resident bozo Refugio(aka Richie) always seems to add his typical French manure. The guy hates Americans, has never had a good thing to say about this country and ridicules ad nauseum. I wouldn't mind if he knew what he was talking about but I'll let you be the judge.

Wine of the Week: Larkmead Cabernet. Napa 1994. Fantastic vintage. Young but wonderful..$55

BTW Jeff, I'm surprised that Refugio hasn't jumped on the band wagon yet as he has done previously when he stated that the Americans don't know the first thing about making wine.

Actually, I enjoyed his sarcasm...

I meant to ask you for a long time: do you wear your socks over your pants or under your pants.

BTW Jeff, I'm surprised that Refugio hasn't jumped on the band wagon yet as he has done previously when he stated that the Americans don't know the first thing about making wine.

OB: you are obsessed with me.. I never said anything remotely close about american cabernet. I love american cabernet.

I meant to ask you for a long time: do you wear your socks over your pants or under your pants.Oh now that was good.

you French wouldn't know good coffee if you were drowning in it

For all you French hating people:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ic4xgOERgk&eurl=http%3A%2F%2F

That was friggin funny. Far too many truths that hit far too close to home. (if you are not afraid to take a close look)

i love the line about getting 85% of the populace out to vote.

I think that you mean the S9 Impressa by Jura. I had that one before the Z5 as did our moderator Mark Rubin. It makes every bit as excellent coffee and espresso. it is just not programmable like the Z5 but great nonetheless

That's exactly what I meant.

Thx again, doc.

I know you guys are "great television watchers and web surfers, getting sensationalized fragments of information that are never connected together and quickly forgotten" but for once check Mrs. Trollope's America, a small but great Vanity Fair essay by Kipling Buis about an Englishwoman who migrated to America in 1827..

www.vanityfair.com/magazine/2007/06/essay_winner200706

That's exactly what I meant.

Thx again, doc.

BTW Jura headquarters in the USA is in New Jersey, not too far from you

I never said anything remotely close about american cabernet. I love american cabernet.

That still stings doesn't it? ;)

No it doesn't, you are mistaken. What I said is one can't find good pastries here in America but then it is the same everywhere except in France and Austria. I am OB's bete noire and sometimes he gets confused or rearranges things to his likings and obsessions. In short he has bad manners.

In short he has bad manners

Try looking at yourself in the mirror as you say that again

Now you are being a bore as always, which is worse in my country of origin.

that's all folks