Got this in my email inbox this morning.

Marantz introduces today an upgraded version of our groundbreaking VP-11S1 High-Definition DLP® front projector featuring HDMI 1.3 inputs with Deep Color™ capability.

With HDMI 1.3 Deep Color™ capability and 12 bit color depth, the upgraded VP-11S1 is capable of displaying an astonishing 68 Billion colors!

Their anamorphic lens solution is on the way as well.

Richard

Dear,

Have Marantz an upgrade available for us, previous owners?

Regards.
Nacho.

Having spoken to Marantz UK this afternoon they have confirmed they will instigate a free upgrade for the VP-11S11 (sold in the UK) to HDMI 1.3 with Deep Color ASAP.
Not sure what Marantz Europe or USA are doing.

Got this in my email inbox this morning.

Marantz introduces today an upgraded version of our groundbreaking VP-11S1 High-Definition DLP® front projector featuring HDMI 1.3 inputs with Deep Color™ capability.

With HDMI 1.3 Deep Color™ capability and 12 bit color depth, the upgraded VP-11S1 is capable of displaying an astonishing 68 Billion colors!

Their anamorphic lens solution is on the way as well.

Richard

I thought a single chip DLP was limited to displaying 16.7m colours ??

"The white light generated by the lamp in a DLP® projection system passes through a red, green and blue color filter as it travels to the surface of the DLP® chip. After passing through this filter, the colored light then falls sequentially onto the DLP® chip to create an image with up to 16.7 million colors. "

http://focus.ti.com/docs/solution/folders/print/360.html


Dazzer

No info yet on upgrade path for people in the U.S.

Richard

Indeed the new spec has hdmi1.3, http://us.marantz.com/Products/497.asp , but I am more hoping for a newer model with lower fan noise and improved contrast .

With all the great competing projectors for under 10k, is Marantz selling any VP11S projectors at the price of 20k?

Yes they are actually. And a lot of them. You should check one out if you can jsut to see how it compares against the other 1080p projectors you've seen.

Richard

Any words from Marantz if there is a new model this year?

Indeed the new spec has hdmi1.3, http://us.marantz.com/Products/497.asp , but I am more hoping for a newer model with lower fan noise and improved contrast .

Yes a model with lower fan noise and improved contrast would be ideal.

WOW I agree with peterpioli.

I am surprised that they even sell these units at 20K specially after you see it in person and compare it to those 1080P 3 CHIPPERS out there for well under 10K.

I am glad to see that they are making refinements to the PJ, a 1.3 HDMI will be great when more sources become availiable, and anamorphic lens solution would be a major plus.

Now if a 1 chip DLP can actually display 68 Billion colors with a spinning colour wheel is the part that I question also. My understanding is 3 seperate chips are needed for this.

Having spoken to Marantz UK this afternoon they have confirmed they will instigate a free upgrade for the VP-11S11 (sold in the UK) to HDMI 1.3 with Deep Color ASAP.
Not sure what Marantz Europe or USA are doing.

Way to go!

AVSRichard
I've seen the VP11S and it is probably the nicest looking projector I've seen overall, BUT it's not more-than twice as good as many under 10k. For Marantz to continue asking 20k for a projector, they had better make big improvements in their next generation VP11S replacement if they want to stay competitive.

AVSRichard
I've seen the VP11S and it is probably the nicest looking projector I've seen overall, BUT it's not more-than twice as good as many under 10k.
Of course it's not, nor is a JCR RS1 for 6K six times better than a 1280 x 720 projector. It's a fair question to ask if the product is competitive in the marketplace but to state it's not twice as good as a 10K PJ is silly - people don't buy more expensive products expecting that the performance increase will be directly proportional to the price difference.

"people don't buy more expensive products expecting that the performance increase will be directly proportional to the price difference."

I agree, but at least a performance difference should be there. Marantz has lost it's edge in my opinion, and seems to be targeting more of a niche market like Runco. 16 million colors on a single chip is a bit short when compared to 68 billions colors on a three chipper. Granted this is not the only performance that is measured but I think its an important one. In my opinion they are out of the league as far as a competitive price in a projector, but as long as someone is willing to pay 20K for something that they think is a little bit better more power to them.

"Nice clothes emperor" :D

16 million colors on a single chip is a bit short when compared to 68 billions colors on a three chipper.
Assuming the three chipper can actually get the colors right :p

I hope you guys aren't taking this 68 billion color number seriously.

For consumer use, who has access to sources with more than 8 4:2:0?

16 million colors on a single chip is a bit short when compared to 68 billions colors on a three chipper.

"Nice clothes emperor" :D


I'm genuinely trying to understand if there is a limitation on the number of colors single chip DLP tech can dipslay. TI indicate that it's 16.7m for single chip and much more for three chip (see below). Is this incorrect and can adding HDMI 1.3 really allow a single chip DLP PJ to now display billions of colors ? If so how does it do that ? :confused:

"Some DLP® projection systems including DLP Cinema® include a three-chip architecture which is capable of producing up to 35 trillion colors"

"The white light generated by the lamp in a DLP® projection system passes through a red, green and blue color filter as it travels to the surface of the DLP® chip. After passing through this filter, the colored light then falls sequentially onto the DLP® chip to create an image with up to 16.7 million colors"

http://focus.ti.com/docs/solution/folders/print/360.html

Dazzer

It has to do with the driver ASIC, the last stage before the DMD. Older versions were 8 bit while the 3-chip D-Cinema application was 14. We are at twelve now.

"people don't buy more expensive products expecting that the performance increase will be directly proportional to the price difference."

I agree, but at least a performance difference should be there. Marantz has lost it's edge in my opinion, and seems to be targeting more of a niche market like Runco. 16 million colors on a single chip is a bit short when compared to 68 billions colors on a three chipper. Granted this is not the only performance that is measured but I think its an important one. In my opinion they are out of the league as far as a competitive price in a projector, but as long as someone is willing to pay 20K for something that they think is a little bit better more power to them.

"Nice clothes emperor" :D

Owners get it.

Our VP-12S4 at 720p will outperform every other 1080p projector in all PQ areas except how many pixels it throws on the screen. And if you are more than 1.5x back then you can't even see that. And that's 10k.

We are backordered on a monthly basis for both standard and long throw versions of the 1080p VP-11S1, with the long throw being 22k. I don't even have one for my demo purposes. Every time I get lucky enough to take one on the road it stays with a customer. Every time.

You guys can flame me all you want and quote things like 14k CR with no DI but there is no substitute for optics, customized video processing and extremely precise CW/bulb pulse timing.

I'm not talking about any one particular aspect here. There is a synergistic mix of performance characteristics that comes from engineering a projector from the ground up with no competition in sight (the original VP-12S1).

Our lens costs more money than the wholesale cost of the RS1. Our DMDs are hand chosen. We color correct for the bulb. Our subchassis alone weighs more then some competitive projectors. All of this adds up to a total experience than is extremely transparent. The projector simply gets out of the way. And with as many areas of performance that can create distractions, that's not an easy task. But there is a reason why almost every reviewer who has sampled the VP-11S1 now owns it. And before you say, "well, of course they do, you give them a great deal!", don't you think the other guys do too?

Is our PJ priced beyond the point of diminishing returns? DUH! Is a BMW M5? Just because all I can afford is a Mitsubishi EVO which on paper is a fairly equal match for it, doesn't mean I don't lust after it.

Dan check your pm

I actually met Dan and saw the projector in a crap room. AND I STILL WAS CONSIDERING SELLING ORGANS TO GET IT! I think someone even bought the one he had that day...

Could I pay a lot less for the JVC? Yup!
Did my boss? Yup.

But if I had the money I would have bought one. Yeah there was a deal as it was a class day. And I was looking at the price of car... but I wanted it just the same!

Ohh and btw.. while I may prefer use marantz when I am programming... Dan and I did not see eye to eye on much when we met. :)

Owners get it.

I'm not talking about any one particular aspect here. There is a synergistic mix of performance characteristics that comes from engineering a projector from the ground up with no competition in sight (the original VP-12S1).

Our lens costs more money than the wholesale cost of the RS1. Our DMDs are hand chosen. We color correct for the bulb. Our subchassis alone weighs more then some competitive projectors. All of this adds up to a total experience than is extremely transparent. The projector simply gets out of the way. And with as many areas of performance that can create distractions, that's not an easy task. But there is a reason why almost every reviewer who has sampled the VP-11S1 now owns it. And before you say, "well, of course they do, you give them a great deal!", don't you think the other guys do too?

Is our PJ priced beyond the point of diminishing returns? DUH! Is a BMW M5? Just because all I can afford is a Mitsubishi EVO which on paper is a fairly equal match for it, doesn't mean I don't lust after it.





As a VP11S1 owner I can personally vouch for everything that Dan is stating here, the build quality and optics are IMO truly astounding, if you know the price of good optics you would know where some of the costs are in this machine and I should know I also have the Isco 3 lens which is expensive at $5k but is also in a class by itself, I also know that Dan is telling the truth about the price of the lens compared to the price of a whole projector such as the JVC because I know what I paid on the prebuy for the JVC and I paid more for my ISCO3 lens than I paid for a whole JVC projector,pick up most any other pj except the ruby and then pick up the 11s1, you will think the 11S1 was lined with lead in comparison, if anyone doubts what the Marantz is capable of just watch Casino Royale in HD on a 10ft scope screen with and Isco lens, the scenery is simply breathtaking and 3D, its hard to believe you are techincally watching an image on a flat surface, on another note my theater is built around 2 projectors and two screens, my second pj not yet setup is the JVC RS1 which I will be evaluating this weekend, many have asked me if im going to sell my Marantz (you all know who you are ;) ) I just laugh :D ,unless I am in dire need of $$$$ the Marantz stays period, my fear is that if I give it up I may never find optics of this quality again and stepping up to a Sim HT5000 is simply not an option at this time, people continue to flame this man simply telling the truth about the product which he represents, most that flame him havent even seen an 11S1, is it perfect, no but I think Dan hit the nail on the head here by saying "There is a synergistic mix of performance characteristics that comes from engineering a projector from the ground up with no competition in sight"

Unquantifiable synergistic mixes are nice, but 15,000 to 1 DI is nice, too. As much as youd like to believe that the 11s1 is to projectors as an M5 is to cars, a more apt comparison for me would be that the 11s1 is a Rolls Royce and the RS1 is a Corvette. Think of picture quality as a race. Sure the Rolls Royce will give a smoother ride, and it uses top quality materials for its parts, but in the end the Corvette uses good quality parts, too, and will likely win that race.

Greg Rogers loved the 11s1. He loved the Sharp 20k. When pressed on which image he preferred, though, I believe he preferred the RS1's.

Picture quality isnt always the sum of its parts.

Our VP-12S4 at 720p will outperform every other 1080p projector in all PQ areas except how many pixels it throws on the screen. And if you are more than 1.5x back then you can't even see that. And that's 10k.


Uh huh.

Here is a question.. how much for a bulb?

Unquantifiable synergistic mixes are nice, but 15,000 to 1 DI is nice, too. As much as youd like to believe that the 11s1 is to projectors as an M5 is to cars, a more apt comparison for me would be that the 11s1 is a Rolls Royce and the RS1 is a Corvette. Think of picture quality as a race. Sure the Rolls Royce will give a smoother ride, and it uses top quality materials for its parts, but in the end the Corvette uses good quality parts, too, and will likely win that race.

Greg Rogers loved the 11s1. He loved the Sharp 20k. When pressed on which image he preferred, though, I believe he preferred the RS1's.

Picture quality isnt always the sum of its parts.



Uh huh.

Check your PMs...

Here is a question.. how much for a bulb?

Bulbs are about 5

I'd have to say if there was another model that was priced as the vp8600 i'd buy that. I was extremely happy with my marantz till I had my house fire and melted the back of it. I actually opened it up and was amazed that it was spotless inside. So I plugged it in and turned it on. To my amazement it still worked. If anyone has ever had a fire in their home, they'd know that that smoke gets everywhere and it's extremely hard to get off anything. I'd love to get an s1 but it's just not in my price range.

Dan is Marantz planning on releasing a projector retailing under 10k with 1080p capabilities?

I'd have to say if there was another model that was priced as the vp8600 i'd buy that. I was extremely happy with my marantz till I had my house fire and melted the back of it. I actually opened it up and was amazed that it was spotless inside. So I plugged it in and turned it on. To my amazement it still worked. If anyone has ever had a fire in their home, they'd know that that smoke gets everywhere and it's extremely hard to get off anything. I'd love to get an s1 but it's just not in my price range.

Dan is Marantz planning on releasing a projector retailing under 10k with 1080p capabilities?

I'm not really at liberty to discuss future products.

;)

Unquantifiable synergistic mixes are nice, but 15,000 to 1 DI is nice, too. As much as youd like to believe that the 11s1 is to projectors as an M5 is to cars, a more apt comparison for me would be that the 11s1 is a Rolls Royce and the RS1 is a Corvette. Think of picture quality as a race. Sure the Rolls Royce will give a smoother ride, and it uses top quality materials for its parts, but in the end the Corvette uses good quality parts, too, and will likely win that race.

Greg Rogers loved the 11s1. He loved the Sharp 20k. When pressed on which image he preferred, though, I believe he preferred the RS1's.

Picture quality isnt always the sum of its parts.



Uh huh.


Mike the one thing that you and I my friend is that we agree to disagree at least on some things, im sure the Jvc will do things well in some areas like contrast and brightness, where im sure it WONT exceed is intrascene contrast and that 3d feel, as you know I have the JVC sitting just behind me even as I type this so im not a basher I feel that it will satisfy me in some ways, bright and contrasty and thats great, the Marantz for me gives a sharp, natural image, very detailed and with using all the pixels in my scope setup the texture on a good transfer is rich and engaging, if the JVC comes close enough to that kind of picture I will keep it, if not I will look elsewhere, maybe sharp 20k or Benq W10000 but one thing is 4 sure the Marantz stays.

I'm not really at liberty to discuss future products.

;)

and Dan is correct on this , Ive called New Jersey to ask about what lens they will use with their Vp 11s1 and what I got was "no comment" and this was from their senior engineer who had the lens in their demo room

How much lumens does the VP11S1 deliver in its best contrast mode calibrated to D65?

Regards,

Gregor

About 450. Enought to get 19FtL on a 49 x 87 screen with a gain of 1.3. More important though is how your room deals with light. All rooms are dark with the lights off. The problem is, you don't watch with the lights off-- the screen is a bright light. What it does to your room will in-turn affect what the room does to the image.

To appreciate extremely high ANSI CR, you need an evironment that soaks up light. Give your image that and you will feel as if you can jump into the picture.

Hey Wayne,

I know its a great projector but I just dont think its all that. I still havent seen the S1, but Ive seen the Sharp 20k and the 12s4, and those just dont hold a candle to the RS1.

Dan and I were discussing Greg Rogers in PMs, and his subjective opinions/preferences, and ill link for this thread exactly what Greg himself stated in the QA after his review was posted online.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QQQ
Of course it does, but which do you prefer ?



If I could get an RS-1 with nearly perfect panel alignment and excellent color uniformity, I would go with the RS-1 and an external processor to color correct the primaries.



That was Greg's response when asked after comparing the 11s1 the Sharp 20k and the RS1, which he had all three in his hands at the same time to compare.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...30&page=3&pp=30

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=825230&page=3&pp=30

Posts 56 73 to 76 are the relevant ones

To appreciate extremely high ANSI CR, you need an evironment that soaks up light. Give your image that and you will feel as if you can jump into the picture.
Yeah... my dress code... "no white T-shirts allowed. And try not to smile too much."

[QUOTE=Catdaddy67]Hey Wayne,

I know its a great projector but I just dont think its all that. I still havent seen the S1



Nuff said brotha ! ;)

I still havent seen the S1, but Ive seen the Sharp 20k and the 12s4, and those just dont hold a candle to the RS1.
I think there are many ways the VP-11S1 and the XV-Z20000 out perform the RS-1.

Dan and I were discussing Greg Rogers in PMs, and his subjective opinions/preferences, and ill link for this thread exactly what Greg himself stated in the QA after his review was posted online.

If I could get an RS-1 with nearly perfect panel alignment and excellent color uniformity, I would go with the RS-1 and an external processor to color correct the primaries.

Note the "If" at the beginning of that sentence. It probably should have been in bold letters. I haven't seen an RS-1 yet that is as good as I would like, and I still don't know of any commercially available external processors that can accurately correct the primaries. I also hope JVC will put a new and better lens on a next generation RS-x.

It is simply a fact that all of the best projectors that I review have pro's and con's about their performance. (It is extremely annoying to me however, that some of the con's could be easily eliminated by better design and more knowledgeable testing prior to product introduction. Even worse, some companies don't fix their obvious mistakes after introduction.) None do everything right, or everything the best. It is also a significant complicating factor that some technologies have a much wider variance in their performance factors than other technologies. I believe the best projector for any individual depends on how they personally value the various pro's and con's, and their precise application(s) for the projector. My current application is testing and evaluating digital video processing, for which I'm using the VP-11S1.

(It is extremely annoying to me however, that some of the con's could be easily eliminated by better design and more knowledgeable testing prior to product introduction. Even worse, some companies don't fix their obvious mistakes after introduction.)

I definitely agree with you there, too. There sure do seem to be some things that would be very easily done by JVC to further improve the RS1/HD1.

That is definitely something that you can count on Marantz to do. QC their stuff to death and squeeze out the maximum that they can from each of their projectors.

What you're seeing is the evolution of single chip projectors. You'll see more come down the road, but performance is getting better and the VP11S1 is a great example of it. Better color and more light output. Along with any already stunning picture.

Richard

Dan,

Does the new version of the VP11 have any advantages when not being fed a Deep Color source?

I think Dan has had enuff excitement for one day :D

What, you take him to a topless bar earlier? 8)

No he didn't...

:(

But will you answer my question if I take you to one? :)

Mike the one thing that you and I my friend is that we agree to disagree at least on some things, im sure the Jvc will do things well in some areas like contrast and brightness, where im sure it WONT exceed is intrascene contrast and that 3d feel, as you know I have the JVC sitting just behind me even as I type this so im not a basher I feel that it will satisfy me in some ways, bright and contrasty and thats great, the Marantz for me gives a sharp, natural image, very detailed and with using all the pixels in my scope setup the texture on a good transfer is rich and engaging, if the JVC comes close enough to that kind of picture I will keep it, if not I will look elsewhere, maybe sharp 20k or Benq W10000 but one thing is 4 sure the Marantz stays.

funlvr1965
You have the marantz and the JVC in the SAME room? How are they mounted?
Thanks

funlvr1965
You have the marantz and the JVC in the SAME room? How are they mounted?
Thanks

The JVC is still in the box it will be opened and evaluated 80 miles from here this coming weekend in another theater that belongs to a friend of mine and his wife, also joining us will be another couple who are currently building a theater, we will all have a look at this together and talk about our impressions of the unit, I consider this an evaluation of the unit, if im not pleased then it will go back under the AVS 30 day return policy, I dont want to put any hours on it until we have all had a chance to evaluate it so thats why I havent even taken it out of the box heres pics of the Marantz and how it is mounted at least for now, be warned im TERRIBLE with a camera everything looks much better in person :)

the screens

Owners get it.

Our VP-12S4 at 720p will outperform every other 1080p projector in all PQ areas except how many pixels it throws on the screen. And if you are more than 1.5x back then you can't even see that. And that's 10k.

We are backordered on a monthly basis for both standard and long throw versions of the 1080p VP-11S1, with the long throw being 22k. I don't even have one for my demo purposes. Every time I get lucky enough to take one on the road it stays with a customer. Every time.

You guys can flame me all you want and quote things like 14k CR with no DI but there is no substitute for optics, customized video processing and extremely precise CW/bulb pulse timing.

I'm not talking about any one particular aspect here. There is a synergistic mix of performance characteristics that comes from engineering a projector from the ground up with no competition in sight (the original VP-12S1).

Our lens costs more money than the wholesale cost of the RS1. Our DMDs are hand chosen. We color correct for the bulb. Our subchassis alone weighs more then some competitive projectors. All of this adds up to a total experience than is extremely transparent. The projector simply gets out of the way. And with as many areas of performance that can create distractions, that's not an easy task. But there is a reason why almost every reviewer who has sampled the VP-11S1 now owns it. And before you say, "well, of course they do, you give them a great deal!", don't you think the other guys do too?

Is our PJ priced beyond the point of diminishing returns? DUH! Is a BMW M5? Just because all I can afford is a Mitsubishi EVO which on paper is a fairly equal match for it, doesn't mean I don't lust after it.

Thanks. This helps a lot! New to PJs and need to throw an image 20' onto a screen about 80" wide. With the right lens, looks like this has the lumens and image quality lens to do it well.
You're right, at this point in a item's life cycle you start to see the quality of construction start to fade.

And if you are more than 1.5x back then you can't even see that.

That leaves those of us who enjoy 2.35 movies at 1x out in the cold in your product line.

You guys can flame me all you want and quote things like 14k CR with no DI but there is no substitute for optics, customized video processing and extremely precise CW/bulb pulse timing.

There's no substitute for any of it, INCLUDING high native CR.

Is a BMW M5? Just because all I can afford is a Mitsubishi EVO which on paper is a fairly equal match for it, doesn't mean I don't lust after it.

I understand. I own an M5. Performance, maybe. But I pay for refinement, ride, quiet, bluetooth, rain-sensitive wipers, etc. I guess the same could be said of your projectors.

Somehow I haven't made the same leap with projectors. I'm in ignorant bliss with my RS1, never having seen a Marantz.

That leaves those of us who enjoy 2.35 movies at 1x out in the cold in your product line.

I don't follow...

I don't follow...
You said:

"Our VP-12S4 at 720p will outperform every other 1080p projector in all PQ areas except how many pixels it throws on the screen. And if you are more than 1.5x back then you can't even see that."

Since I like to watch at 1x (less than 1.5x) I said:

"That leaves those of us who enjoy 2.35 movies at 1x out in the cold in your product line."

But only 2.35 movies. For 16:9 fare I move to the back row.

What I was saying was that our 720p projector from more than 1.5x is indistinguishable from 1080p, due to the eye's inability to resolve that level of detail from so far back. That's just physiology. If you like to sit closer then 1080p makes sense and that's why we have the VP-11S1.

What I was saying was that our 720p projector from more than 1.5x is indistinguishable from 1080p, due to the eye's inability to resolve that level of detail from so far back. That's just physiology. If you like to sit closer then 1080p makes sense and that's why we have the VP-11S1.

Right, that's exactly what I meant. At the price of the VP-11S1, Marantz's product line leaves me out in the cold. Even the VP-12S4 is too expensive. It's just a different market.

While I do agree that 720p projectors look quite good, especially the 12S4, it is not indistinguishable from the 1080p varients. I am sitting about 1.7x back and the difference between the 12S4 and the 11S1 was noticeable, though not exactly mind blowing. I think the main difference is scaling. Regardless of the fact that the Gennum VXP does an amazing job with scaling there are still consequences to scaling a 1080p or 1080i source down to 720p. Things soften up a bit. That veil is lifted with the 1080p units though (at least in the case of the 11S1).

Hi Dan, beside the hdmi 1.3 , any improvement on contrast and fan noise for the upgrade version?

Hi Dan, beside the hdmi 1.3 , any improvement on contrast and fan noise for the upgrade version?

As a VP11S1 owner I would like to know the answer to that as well.

I hope you guys aren't taking this 68 billion color number seriously.

68 billion colors. Okay, guys, name just a billion of them.

Nick :cool:

Dan,
I'd just like to say my experience with the VP11S1 very much echo's yours.
I went to see two customers last week and took two VP11's with me.
The car came back empty!

Another customer visited my dem room a few days ago and I now have a HDMI cable and power cable dangling down from the ceiling :eek:

There is a constant back order situation in the UK but hopefully I will get my dem unit replaced next week.

Hi Dan,
Any info about the VP11s not negotiating or accepting the 24p output from some hi-def DVD players?

It's a great projector otherwise, especially for the razor-sharp PC desktop. :)

Hi Dan,
Any info about the VP11s not negotiating or accepting the 24p output from some hi-def DVD players?

It's a great projector otherwise, especially for the razor-sharp PC desktop. :)


BUMP.

Same problem with VP-12S4...

cheers

Hi Dan,
Any info about the VP11s not negotiating or accepting the 24p output from some hi-def DVD players?

It's a great projector otherwise, especially for the razor-sharp PC desktop. :)

Sorry for the delay; on vacation.

The only reason that the VP-11S1 would have a problem with 1080p24 is EDID. The projector handles it just fine and also will output 48 when that signal is present instead of 60.

Dan when you get around to it check your pm and email, Thanks


Wayne

Sorry for the delay; on vacation.

The only reason that the VP-11S1 would have a problem with 1080p24 is EDID. The projector handles it just fine and also will output 48 when that signal is present instead of 60.


Pardon my ignorance - but what does EDID stand for?

Pardon my ignorance - but what does EDID stand for?I'm not sure what EDID stands for, but it is basically a negotiation where the source device can ask the display for its characteristics, like whether it will support 1080p24 signals or not. EDID is the way that a PC can print out the projector brand and type it is connected to.

--Darin

Sorry... Extended Display Identification Data.

Hi Dan , will there be any problem for the 11s1 to accept PS3 1080p24 ?

Also if possible , any hint on the launch date for next gen Marantz like 11s2 ?

Hi Dan , will there be any problem for the 11s1 to accept PS3 1080p24 ?

Also if possible , any hint on the launch date for next gen Marantz like 11s2 ?

Why would there be an a11S2?

I mean they just announced an upgrade for 'Deep Color' on the 11S1 - an upgrade that not even Blue Ray or HD DVD can take advantage of currently as there are no discs with deep color spec. [correct me if I am wrong please].

The 11S1 is a reference machine - the optics are pretty much as good as can be produced - the scaling is first rate - its 1920 X1080 - its just all good!

Upgrade not required.

The 11S1 accepts 24p just fine from the PS3 or the Sony/Pioneer Blu-ray players.

It doesn't from my Samsung 1200 and also, as I've read, from the LG BH100.

It's not a huge deal, I'm just curious about it.

So, it would appear it's a player EDID issue, not the projector . . . ?

Why would there be an a11S2?

I mean they just announced an upgrade for 'Deep Color' on the 11S1 - an upgrade that not even Blue Ray or HD DVD can take advantage of currently as there are no discs with deep color spec. [correct me if I am wrong please].

The 11S1 is a reference machine - the optics are pretty much as good as can be produced - the scaling is first rate - its 1920 X1080 - its just all good!

Upgrade not required.



I think he was asking about the next generation model, which I'm interested in too.

I'd be so nice if they were able to finally get totally rid of that remaining RBE. :)

Why would there be an a11S2?

I mean they just announced an upgrade for 'Deep Color' on the 11S1 - an upgrade that not even Blue Ray or HD DVD can take advantage of currently as there are no discs with deep color spec. [correct me if I am wrong please].

The 11S1 is a reference machine - the optics are pretty much as good as can be produced - the scaling is first rate - its 1920 X1080 - its just all good!

Upgrade not required.

As a current 12S4 owner, I love Marantz and know what it is capable of . But I really hope to get a more quieter Marantz(changing to bigger cabinet ?) because the pj will be situated just 1meter away from my listening position. And by looking at the past history, I believe they are working on a newer model.

Marantz 11S1 is not cheap to me so to spend the money on a pj, at least must meet my minimum expectation (fan noise). Ofcoz if I can buy it cheap , then different story . :D

The 11S1 accepts 24p just fine from the PS3 or the Sony/Pioneer Blu-ray players.

Thanks Kris. This is a good info for potential 11S1 owner. :)

Ofcoz if I can buy it cheap , then different story . :D



why dont you buy Darins 11S1 he has it for sale in the "display devices for sale" section

Probably because no one will buy our S4's, even at rock bottom prices. Trust me, I've been trying.

Pat

well im glad im not trying to sell my 11s1

I think he was asking about the next generation model, which I'm interested in too.

I'd be so nice if they were able to finally get totally rid of that remaining RBE. :)

Thats the whole point though.. there isnt any need for a next generation model at the moment. The VP11S1 is already top of the tree - what would you want improved that cant be done with firmware?

I think its brilliant that Marantz are offering this upgrade for deep color on the VP11S1 - it protects my and other owners investment in this projector.

why dont you buy Darins 11S1 he has it for sale in the "display devices for sale" section

I would like to but I am staying in Singapore . So factor in shipping , warranty and hdmi 1.3 upgrading package cost , I should be able to buy a brand new set here :D But one thing I am sure of is my next upgrade will still be a Marantz,be it 11S1 or next gen. :D

what would you want improved that cant be done with firmware?


Well for myself that would be contrast 1st and more importantly for me as someone has mentioned above- fan noise, fan noise, fan noise. (If other DLP manufactures can solve this problem then surely Marantz with all there know how in the DLP arena can.)

Well for myself that would be contrast 1st and more importantly for me as someone has mentioned above- fan noise, fan noise, fan noise. (If other DLP manufactures can solve this problem then surely Marantz with all there know how in the DLP arena can.)

Ofcoz improving the contrast is better but I believe Marantz has already done their best for a DC3 chip . Unless new chip like DC4 is use on next model, I doubt there is further improvement . My room is totally dark so even with S4 , I am happy with the black level now . :p The only thing holding me back now is fan noise vs price. :o

- what would you want improved that cant be done with firmware?

As I clearly posted:

". . . get totally rid of that remaining RBE."

As I clearly posted:

". . . get totally rid of that remaining RBE."

I dont see any RBE in my set-up. VP11S1 ISF calibrated on a 80" Screen Research Clear Pix II screen - in a shadow box.

For me, the torture test seems to be white scrolling credits with a black background.

When watching space flicks, like 2001 for example, flashes of RBE once in a while are rather annoying.

I realize this effect has nothing to do with DLP technology. And it's been hugely improved over previous models, as I understand it.

So I'm not complaining loudly. I am just still so pissed that my Sony Ruby doesn't have user-adjustable convergence. And the Pc desktop with it is very disappointing, much worse than my 9-year-old JVC DLA-G10. :rolleyes:

So, I jumped ship.

The other great advantage to single-chip over my previous LCOS projectors is for the classic B/W film buff in me. When I watch Casablanca for example, I want BLACK and WHITE, with absolutely NO flatfield coloration.

Anyway, the VP11, with most sources, is incredible. The best Hi-def DVDs look mind-blowing.

Dan,

I have a question for you. The Marantz 11S1 has a great lens. It is one of the top most lenses available in projectors. Constant Image Height is becoming popular by the day and that involves using an anamorphic lens in front of the projector.

So my question is that how much of the quality can / will be affected if the anamorphic lens is not as good as the Konica Minolta lens of the PJ seeing that the final projected image is going through the anamorphic lens on to the screen?

Well, anything is only as good as its weakest link. This is why after looking at all of the lenses for to do this work, our main option is going to be the ISCO III. I don't know if you guys know the history of the III, but it was originally designed and built for a 1920 x 1080 D-Cinema chip that never got off the ground because 2048 x 1080 was chosen instead. But that's why the thing is so big, heavy and expensive. But take the time to set it up right and it is REALLY good. On the other hand, I can definitely see a difference in ANSI CR, so my guess is it is dropping it by maybe 15%. But you can't have everything I guess.

Well, anything is only as good as its weakest link. This is why after looking at all of the lenses for to do this work, our main option is going to be the ISCO III. I don't know if you guys know the history of the III, but it was originally designed and built for a 1920 x 1080 D-Cinema chip that never got off the ground because 2048 x 1080 was chosen instead. But that's why the thing is so big, heavy and expensive. But take the time to set it up right and it is REALLY good. On the other hand, I can definitely see a difference in ANSI CR, so my guess is it is dropping it by maybe 15%. But you can't have everything I guess.

Dan - thats great news. So when will we see the ISCO III packaged my Marantz go on sale? And.. will it come with a sled?

Well, anything is only as good as its weakest link. This is why after looking at all of the lenses for to do this work, our main option is going to be the ISCO III. I don't know if you guys know the history of the III, but it was originally designed and built for a 1920 x 1080 D-Cinema chip that never got off the ground because 2048 x 1080 was chosen instead. But that's why the thing is so big, heavy and expensive. But take the time to set it up right and it is REALLY good. On the other hand, I can definitely see a difference in ANSI CR, so my guess is it is dropping it by maybe 15%. But you can't have everything I guess.


This is exactly the reason I went with the IscoIII for the 11S1, a year earlier I backed out of the scope setup with the ruby, I was all set to pull the trigger and realized that the lens in the ruby might be my weak link so I waited a year and once I got the 11s1 there was no reason not to go for it the lens in the Marantz and the IscoIII are a great match, I dont think you can do much better with regards to optics

Dan - thats great news. So when will we see the ISCO III packaged my Marantz go on sale? And.. will it come with a sled?


Now.

Yes or No... Your Choice. The PJ has the processing and the trigger for the sled integrated. If you don't use the sled you give up 4:3 in its true shape but you save money and simplify things.

Enjoy!

Now.

Yes or No... Your Choice. The PJ has the processing and the trigger for the sled integrated. If you don't use the sled you give up 4:3 in its true shape but you save money and simplify things.

Enjoy!
Don't you also give up 1:1 pixel mapping for 16:9 material? And, also some horizontal resolution for 16:9? Perhaps not important as there isn't 1:1 mapping for stretched 2.35 either.

Now.

Yes or No... Your Choice. The PJ has the processing and the trigger for the sled integrated. If you don't use the sled you give up 4:3 in its true shape but you save money and simplify things.

Enjoy!

Excellent indeed! Where / when will it appear on the Marantz website? Any info available on the sled - pics etc.? for mounting purposes?

Don't you also give up 1:1 pixel mapping for 16:9 material? And, also some horizontal resolution for 16:9? Perhaps not important as there isn't 1:1 mapping for stretched 2.35 either.

Yes, although one of the interesting things is that at last CEDIA, we didn't have the prototype sled ready so I used the lens fixed. No one (seriously, and there were some pretty critical eyes who came through the room-- and they know me well enough to not pull punches, G*d love 'em) noticed that when I used "normal" 16:9 material (full frame-- geez, it seems like we are talking about the old days with 4:3) that they were looking at 1440x1080 instead of 1920x1080.

And wouldn't it be trick if HD-DVD and/or BD had 2.35 options built in like DVD had options for 16:9 built in? So we could have anamorphically squeezed material encoded on the disc and if you had a 16:9 display then the player would scale and create the bars much like DVD can for 4:3 displays. How cool would that be?

Yes, although one of the interesting things is that at last CEDIA, we didn't have the prototype sled ready so I used the lens fixed. No one (seriously, and there were some pretty critical eyes who came through the room-- and they know me well enough to not pull punches, G*d love 'em) noticed that when I used "normal" 16:9 material (full frame-- geez, it seems like we are talking about the old days with 4:3) that they were looking at 1440x1080 instead of 1920x1080.




Dan its interesting that you mention this, when a friend of mine and I were setting up the 11S1 and the Isco III just for kicks we left the lens in place and watched 16:9 material and honestly if we didnt slide the lens out of the way to view it natively you would be hard pressed to really tell that it was not a native 2:35 stretched image, in other words with a 16:9 image on the 10' 2:35 screen we left the scaler in stretch mode and it filled the screen and still looked rather good

Dan its interesting that you mention this, when a friend of mine and I were setting up the 11S1 and the Isco III just for kicks we left the lens in place and watched 16:9 material and honestly if we didnt slide the lens out of the way to view it natively you would be hard pressed to really tell that it was not a native 2:35 stretched image, in other words with a 16:9 image on the 10' 2:35 screen we left the scaler in stretch mode and it filled the screen and still looked rather good

But did you know that the 4:3 mode (labeled NORMAL) would shrink 16:9 HD material? Many people think that the scaler won't work on HD but we made sure that for just this reason you could watch 16:9 through the lens but properly formatted.

And wouldn't it be trick if HD-DVD and/or BD had 2.35 options built in like DVD had options for 16:9 built in? So we could have anamorphically squeezed material encoded on the disc and if you had a 16:9 display then the player would scale and create the bars much like DVD can for 4:3 displays. How cool would that be?
Absolutely! I've been wondering why publishers don't do this for a long time. Especially with BD there's enough room for both versions. And it would solve the scaling problem for the RS1.
But, HD-DVD and BD are a small subset of DVD sales and I'm sure anamorphic setups are a small subset of that small subset, so I'm not holding my breath.

On re-reading your post, I was thinking of something a little different. How about a version of the movie that was stretched for anamorphic playback? That way you'd have the full 1080 resolution and 1:1 mapping in the projected image.

Thanks for your reply Dan. It's good to hear that the ISCO III complements the Konica Minolta lens.


I have a few questions if you don't mind.

(i) Does the Marantz VPS-11S1 have sealed optics to not let any fine dust get through?

(ii) How much does the replacement bulb cost?

(iii) This is more of a general question for digital projectors. Is the new bulb capable of giving the same result that the factory fitted bulb gives when the projector is opened out of the box? Are there parts in digital PJs that can effect the luminosity over time apart from the bulb itself?

i. YES
ii. About 5
iii. With DLP there is nothing to speak of that would cause luminosity changes over time. Replacing the bulb is like new out of the box.

You guys can flame me all you want and quote things like 14k CR with no DI but there is no substitute for optics, customized video processing and extremely precise CW/bulb pulse timing.

I guess so. There is also no substitute for higher On-Off CR than the Marantz offers. And lack of Rainbow artifacts. Once DLP marches into >= 20000:1 CR territory with zero rainbows I'm all eyes to check it out.

I guess so. There is also no substitute for higher On-Off CR than the Marantz offers. And lack of Rainbow artifacts. Once DLP marches into >= 20000:1 CR territory with zero rainbows I'm all eyes to check it out.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of absolute black level (after all, I have owned six CRT theaters in my career). But if I had to choose, I'd take ANSI CR over absolute CR. Unless you are talking about really weak absolute CR (say, less than 3000) where there is a haze over any moderately dark scene, 5 or 6k doesn't leave me wanting. I can notice it when the scenes are really dark or credits roll, but comparitively speaking how often are there scenes where absolute CR is critical vs. how often are there scenes where ANSI CR is critical? Outside of movies like Dark City I'd bet that most movies spend most of their time where the APL is higher than lower.

And as far as rainbow artifacts go, I'm not going to say that we have eliminated them, because that's impossible with a single chip. B ut with a 6x wheel, and precise timing, they are diminished to the point where I'd bet you could get away with saying that for 99% of the population. Obviously if you are looking, you can find them, but...

The goal of any high end device is to disappear as a device and let the content speak. Elimination of distractions is what it is about. And if you are looking for rainbows, then you aren't watching the movie. If you don't see them unless you are looking then who cares?

And isn't a lens that causes color fringing the same as rainbows that are there ALL THE TIME? Like an old CRT RPTV out of convergence, that is a distraction to me.

Just my three cents...

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of absolute black level (after all, I have owned six CRT theaters in my career). But if I had to choose, I'd take ANSI CR over absolute CR. Unless you are talking about really weak absolute CR (say, less than 3000) where there is a haze over any moderately dark scene, 5 or 6k doesn't leave me wanting. I can notice it when the scenes are really dark or credits roll, but comparitively speaking how often are there scenes where absolute CR is critical vs. how often are there scenes where ANSI CR is critical? Outside of movies like Dark City I'd bet that most movies spend most of their time where the APL is higher than lower.

And as far as rainbow artifacts go, I'm not going to say that we have eliminated them, because that's impossible with a single chip. B ut with a 6x wheel, and precise timing, they are diminished to the point where I'd bet you could get away with saying that for 99% of the population. Obviously if you are looking, you can find them, but...

The goal of any high end device is to disappear as a device and let the content speak. Elimination of distractions is what it is about. And if you are looking for rainbows, then you aren't watching the movie. If you don't see them unless you are looking then who cares?

And isn't a lens that causes color fringing the same as rainbows that are there ALL THE TIME? Like an old CRT RPTV out of convergence, that is a distraction to me.

Just my three cents...


Oh he's on a roll now :D

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of absolute black level (after all, I have owned six CRT theaters in my career). But if I had to choose, I'd take ANSI CR over absolute CR. Unless you are talking about really weak absolute CR (say, less than 3000) where there is a haze over any moderately dark scene, 5 or 6k doesn't leave me wanting. I can notice it when the scenes are really dark or credits roll, but comparitively speaking how often are there scenes where absolute CR is critical vs. how often are there scenes where ANSI CR is critical? Outside of movies like Dark City I'd bet that most movies spend most of their time where the APL is higher than lower.

I'm currently owning > 100000:1 and ~15000:1. The latter has advantages over the former in other areas so I have both. The 15000:1 leaves me craving a lower black level in maybe 5-10% of all shots of an average film. The rest looks the same as 100000:1 as long as ANSI is not too different. With 6000:1 that goes up to (guessing) 20-30% of all shots. Simply too much no matter how great the other 70-80% look. I wish I could have it all but I can't. Waiting for technical progress is the motto.

You may not believe this mhafner but when I read that from Dan I KNEW you would have to respond :D.

Waiting for technical progress is the motto.

Enjoying music and films is mine...

Enjoying music and films is mine...

Totally agree.

I sit down to enjoy a movie on my VP11S1 - not to pick fault in it [which BTW: is exceedingly difficult to do!]

Enjoying music and films is mine...
The motto concerning purchasing a DLP unit, that is. Not watching and enjoying films.
I have done that for decades.