Alright guys, I will not be providing anyone with the Live Update Enabled software for URC remote controls.

I have been contacted by Hank the National Sales Manager for URC.

If you need software please contact your authorized dealer or URC tech support.

I will not be participating in the exchange of copyrighted software from URC.

All software has been removed from the hosting site.

-Brien

Damn the bastards.

Good to see its almost been a year and URC has made zero improvement in removing all those unauthorized remotes from places like amazon. They must be trying really hard...

In the end, like most of us understood, they have not helped their authorized dealers, they have not helped their users, but they have probably saved a bundle in tech support. This is a perfect example of corporate greed and low ethics. Its a shame they make nice remotes because this is the kind of company you don't want to give money to.

I'm not a dealer but the one's that I've talked to have said that the new policies have helped them somewhat and now THEY are happy to provide tech support or refer you to someone at URC if necessary.

When I hear stuff like this it makes me glad the Harmony has worked out well for me. At least they seem to care about their customers, no matter where they bought the unit.

Just for the heck of it, I sent the following to URC.

Electronics Expo claims to be an authorized dealer for everything they sell. They carry your remotes, but I don't see them listed on your list of on-line authorized dealers.

Given your policy of not providing software or tech support unless purchased from an authorized dealer, I would like to know why you do not do more about preventing these apparent unauthorized dealers from providing product to unaware consumers?

Look at the top center of this page of URC product.

Electronics Expo (http://www.electronics-expo.com/index.php?page=search&search_query=universal+remote&x=0&y=0)

Now look at the list of authorized on-line dealers.

URC Online Dealers (http://www.universalremote.com/pro/online_dealers.php)

Be interesting to see if I get a response.

And all this "authorized dealer" stuff, whether URC or not, just annoys the heck out of me. Half the time the "authorized dealers" don't know any more about the item you're buying than anyone else. So much for the "specially trained" aspect of it. Then they won't honor the warranty. Hey, what does it matter where I bought it from? It's not like the unauthorized dealer rebuilt the thing in their garage.

It's a way to keep margins high by limiting the channels.

You know that the honest authorized dealers that are selling the $450 (MSRP) MX-900 for $250 are still making money, so just what is the real markup on that thing? I understand companies need to make a profit to stay in business, but c'mon.

You can get invoice price for cars, too bad you can't get it for electronics.

When I hear stuff like this it makes me glad the Harmony has worked out well for me. At least they seem to care about their customers, no matter where they bought the unit.

Just for the heck of it, I sent the following to URC.

Electronics Expo claims to be an authorized dealer for everything they sell. They carry your remotes, but I don't see them listed on your list of on-line authorized dealers.

Given your policy of not providing software or tech support unless purchased from an authorized dealer, I would like to know why you do not do more about preventing these apparent unauthorized dealers from providing product to unaware consumers?

Look at the top center of this page of URC product.

Electronics Expo (http://www.electronics-expo.com/index.php?page=search&search_query=universal+remote&x=0&y=0)

Now look at the list of authorized on-line dealers.

URC Online Dealers (http://www.universalremote.com/pro/online_dealers.php)

Expo is a retail store in NJ and they are listed on URCs A.D. list
http://www.universalremote.com/pro/dealer_locator.php?State=NJ&Zip=&startitem=20

Half the time the "authorized dealers" don't know any more about the item you're buying than anyone else.

The way I use the A.D system is as a referral. I still research the companies further from that point until I find someone that is knowledgeable and offers tech support.


Hey, what does it matter where I bought it from? It's not like the unauthorized dealer rebuilt the thing in their garage.

URC is known for running changes in their product line. In the lifespan of the MX300 alone they have changed the firmware several times, the backlight, the battery and the touch screen itself (if I remember this all correctly). By controlling the channel they can control the quality of their equipment and stock rotate so that the customer is always getting the latest rev. of a remote.


You know that the honest authorized dealers that are selling the $450 (MSRP) MX-900 for $250 are still making money, so just what is the real markup on that thing? I understand companies need to make a profit to stay in business, but c'mon.

You can get invoice price for cars, too bad you can't get it for electronics.

Not true. Send an email or make a phone call to an authorized dealer and ask for a better price and I think you'll be surprised. By law URC can only set guidelines for what prices you can advertise their remotes at... not the actual sale price. Even authorized dealers know that it's a competitive market.

Please don't misunderstand me... I am not a 100% URC fanboy and I think they mis-handled the transition to this new policy. But, now that the policy is in place I think we all need to realize that the decision is:

1. best price from unauthorized dealer with the software included in the box only and their own or a third-party warranty

OR

2. best price from an authorized dealer (ask for a deal), lifetime software updates and full manufacturer's warranty

Personally if the price delta between 1 & 2 is $100 or more I would even have a problem justifying the extra money but if you do a little leg work I think you'll find it to be a lot closer than that.

FWIW, URC has increased their tech support staff from 8 to 14 full time support people in the last year, so they're not saving any money there. Also, I haven't heard of a problem with end user getting tech support (just not programming support) by calling them.

Expo is a retail store in NJ and they are listed on URCs A.D. list
http://www.universalremote.com/pro/dealer_locator.php?State=NJ&Zip=&startitem=20
Ah. Thanks for that info. The problem being, of course, that I'm in Portland, Oregon. I came across Expo's web site, went to URC's site to check their status, and they're not listed as an on-line dealer. The only other way is to search by zip code or state, and to do that I'd have to know they were also a brick-and-mortar outfit and where they were located. Now admittedly, I can probably get that from their site, but how many consumers are going to go through the trouble of locating of going through those hoops. If URC wants to play up the Authorized Dealer angle, they need to make their site easier to get that information so consumers can more easily determine if a dealer is authorized or not. Huppin's/One-Call is listed as an on-line dealer, even though they have a brick-and-mortar location as well.

Originally Posted by craig_wagner
You know that the honest authorized dealers that are selling the $450 (MSRP) MX-900 for $250 are still making money, so just what is the real markup on that thing? I understand companies need to make a profit to stay in business, but c'mon.

You can get invoice price for cars, too bad you can't get it for electronics.
Not true. Send an email or make a phone call to an authorized dealer and ask for a better price and I think you'll be surprised. By law URC can only set guidelines for what prices you can advertise their remotes at... not the actual sale price. Even authorized dealers know that it's a competitive market.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I know you can get good deals. I mentioned that I knew the MX-900 was available from A.D.'s for about $250 (almost half the MSRP). My point was that I can go to kbb.com or edmunds.com to find out invoice price on a car, so I know what the dealer paid. That allows me to make an informed decision on what to buy and how much to pay. I don't know of any way to find out, even ballpark, what the retailers are paying for these things. My local URC dealer wanted to make me a "great deal" on an MX-900 by offering 10% off the MSRP. Given that someone else can sell it for $250 and still make money (at least I'm assuming they are still making money and not doing it for philanthropic reasons), just how much excess profit are most dealers skimming when they sell them at $400?

In general the "Authorized Dealer" (regardless of manufacturer) routine just steams my bean. To me it's of little benefit to the consumer. The biggest winners are the Authorized Dealers who eliminate their bare bones competition.

Put it this way, if you bought a one-year-old Toyota from a Nissan dealer, and it had a problem, would you expect the Toyota dealer to say, "Nope, you bought it used from a non-authorized dealer, we're not going to honor your warranty."?

Put it this way, if you bought a one-year-old Toyota from a Nissan dealer, and it had a problem, would you expect the Toyota dealer to say, "Nope, you bought it used from a non-authorized dealer, we're not going to honor your warranty."?

I've seen this analogy before. In your example you are buying a 1 yr old Toyota from a Nissan dealer. If you buy a 1 yr old remote from another user and they have the receipt from the authorized dealer I bet you'll still get the updates, warranty (if still in force) and everything else you need. Haven't you noticed though that you can't buy a NEW Toyota from anyone other than an Authorized Toyota Dealer?

For the record I agree that URC needs to change their dealer lookup. Its the age of the internet and most time I don't want to buy from within my state for obvious reasons ;-)

The car sales analogy is not a good one when talking about comsumer electronics. All car dealers get their product direct from the manufacturer. Such is not the case with consumer electronics, which are usually only sourced directly from the manufacturer if purchased in large quantities. Buying direct from the manufacturers yields much lower prices than sourcing through distributors, who have a variety of pricing. As a result, a reseller that buys direct can actually sell the product for a price equal to or sometimes lower than a reseller can buy that product from a distributor. In the custom installation field, this is even more true as the CI distributors tend to have even higher prices. Bottom line is that there is no way of knowing what an individual dealer is paying for a particular product, because it's not the same for each dealer.

Also, dealer invoice on an automobile is seldom what the dealer paid for it. They have various incentive programs and financing offers that allow them to get many of the cars even cheaper.

Ultimately with any purchase, automobile or consumer electronics, it comes down to getting the best price you can, balanced with your individual needs/preference for service, reliability and convenience.

Good to see everyone else thinks that URC's business ethics suck

Good to see everyone else thinks that URC's business ethics suck :confused: Because they want to have control of how their products are updated out there, and how the code they own is distributed ......so they don't have a flood of returns due to piss-poor programming?

The bastards ......

:D

^^Is that sarcasm?

What's funny is that about 90% of the codes in the database can be imported from remotecentral. The database just gives you instant access to the codes.

Their support was reputed to suck. The 'ethics' were questioned as a result of a potentially great product line, but lousy support and 'obviously' confusing A.D./ non-A.D. info and the perception that URC was propping up poor A.D.s with their policies.

control of how their products are updated out there, and how the code they own is distributed This is bogus. I choose when and IF I update my remote, not some dealer. Where else am I going to use the "code they own"?; on a blender?

a flood of returns due to piss-poor programming? I'll match my first-time programming with the pros, thanks to a select few folks who helped me, from here and from Remote Central, plus time and intelligence. We all know there are huge holes in the URC database and are forced to supplement their code with outside sources, often at a great investment of time.

I was anxious while buying from eBay but did so after trying the software. After my Harmony nightmare atop many other 'high-tech' products which failed miserably, at MY co$t, I was relieved to be able to follow that path. Sadly, one can hardly know if most of today's devices really serve us or if we will have to fight to make them work, before we buy and try.

I decided to buy an MX-850 BECAUSE OF the alternative route; being quite sure (and avoiding another return) that it would serve my needs well.

If I were to do it over, AND as I have recommended to many friends and associates, I would buy from a supportive A.D. like Mike (RC). If all sellers supported buyers in like manner, few of use would shop strictly by price.

URC could be costing itself sales like mine, and the multiple word-of-mouth spin-offs. The good dealers will always do well. The others are threatened. :)

Because they want to have control of how their products are updated out there
If you are referring to the comment earlier about the running changes in the product line, I'll buy that one. From the sounds of it, if URC makes a change to the remote they will take back all existing stock from their AD network and replace it with updated items. If they actually do this to prevent outdated remotes from reaching the public, then I applaud them.

and how the code they own is distributed

This one is a little silly. It's not like the software is general purpose (e.g. a word processor). The only thing I can do with their code is program their remote, and if I have their remote then they got some $$$ for it at some point. The only reason to keep the software under lock and key is for bullying tactics.

so they don't have a flood of returns due to piss-poor programming?

Can't say I understand this one. It's not like these remotes are not available to the public at all. Nothing stopping someone from buying one, not being able to figure it out, and returning it. The return goes to the retailer, not URC (unless the hardware is defective of course), so why does URC care?

, so just what is the real markup on that thing?

When you ask yourself that question, and you're not talking low margin mass items like TVs or cars, then the structure is typically:

100% retail price
60% discounter price
40% invoice price

It may vary up or down a little, but that's the typical pricing structure.

Btw: I just placed an order for a MX-950 with a 350 base station from Surf Remote (authorized), and the price was pretty much exactly that of the unauthorized dealers and ebayers. Ironically, both the ebayers I checked and Surfremote are in CA, and thus I have to pay the sales tax to either.

Alright guys, I will not be providing anyone with the Live Update Enabled software for URC remote controls.

I have been contacted by Hank the National Sales Manager for URC.
-Brien

Interesting how this coincides with Remote Central closing the super thread concerning URC's policy and banning any discussion about it. Almost makes one wonder if Hank made a deal with Remote Central; URC is one of their sponsors afterall. Jmo, I have no insider information.

Does anyone who has the updated software know if URC has released the codes for an Onkyo DV-SP404B DVD player? If so, can they send me the component file for it or know where I can get it? I've tried remotecentral but no luck.

Thanks!

Jerry

Does anyone who has the updated software know if URC has released the codes for an Onkyo DV-SP404B DVD player? If so, can they send me the component file for it or know where I can get it? I've tried remotecentral but no luck.

Thanks!

Jerry


I have MX-900 Editor with the latest update and the DV-SP404B is not listed. Have you tried codes from one of the other models listed? I would start with code 180 and see if this works. Good Luck!

Thanks Sunstar, I'll give that a shot. Just out of curiousity - what is the latest version number of the MX-900 editor?

MX-900 Editor Version 1.10.102
Firmware: 1.43
IR DB: 1.80

The people who buy these remotes are frquently hobbyists who like to tinker around.The urc policy tries to discourage that and will eventually cost them the sales.Also it is intersting to note that most of the favourable comments posted are from dealers.BTW I do own a MX 3000.

This whole URC posture is certainly going to cost them my business. I have the MX-700, OEMd by B&K with the Ref 50 S2 pre-amp that I own, and although I've been mostly satisfied with it for over a year, I now want more out of a remote and am looking to buy something fancier. It certainly won't be another URC. Whether I spend $300 or $1000, that money will go to Philips or Logitec, most likely, but certainly not to URC.

It's all a big scam.
I have seen the price sheets.

A MX850 is $400.
Dealer cost is 50% - They get a better price in bulk.
Accomodation price is 25%.

I know Online dealers get better pricing. URC has pulled the equivalent of CC firing all their older/benfits/higher paid employees. It was a business decision, does not matter how you spin it.

I would guess that many of the Eebay guys are covers for online guys raising their volume. I have talked about this w/ a custom staller and I have seen the costs at Tweeter. URC is playing everyone and so are the Online "Authorized" Dealers.

The majority of the customers put the dealers in order of price and start from the bottom w/ a 3-4% window to buy from someone they feel slightly more comfortable with.

How come you authorized online dealer can sell at the same price as the Eebay guy and make a profit, but the Eebay guy is the bad guy?
How come custom installers say that it's cheaper on Eebay then them buying it from URC?

It's a scam. It's dishonest. "Some" of the remotes are good products.

If you have any interest, just PM one of the guys that looks like he sells these remotes at Remote Central and you will probably get the whole story. I did not want to tell him this, but Custom Install is an antiquated business model.

I don't want to pay a dealer to program the remote everytime I change a component or change the order of the macro.Their policy is mocking our intelligance! :mad:

I don't want to pay a dealer to program the remote everytime I change a component or change the order of the macro.Their policy is mocking our intelligance! :mad:

You don't ever need to pay a dealer. That's not the policy.

Buy the remote anywhere you want and you should get the software you need to program and edit the programming as often as you'd like. If you get a new device that's not in the database just learn the commands from the original remote.

Buy it from an authorized dealer and you are guaranteed to get the most recent software available from URC plus FREE upgrades for new device codes and other added features as they become available via the easy Live Update feature.

You don't ever need to pay a dealer. That's not the policy.

Buy the remote anywhere you want and you should get the software you need to program and edit the programming as often as you'd like. If you get a new device that's not in the database just learn the commands from the original remote.

Buy it from an authorized dealer and you are guaranteed to get the most recent software available from URC plus FREE upgrades for new device codes and other added features as they become available via the easy Live Update feature.

This is not the case for everyone. I own a URC MX-700 because it was OEM'd by B&K, and came with my Ref 50 Series 2 receiver. I can find no one, not the original retailer of my B&K and not B&K themselves, who will give me the latest software from URC with Live Update and so on.

Maybe this is a complaint that I should direct more at B&K than URC, and B&K certainly has lost some esteem in my eyes for various reasons unrelated to the remote, but URC is part of the mess, so I'm going to avoid them in future whenever possible.

Just after posting my earlier message, I read your report at remoteshoppe.com, Jim, saying that URC now offer the latest editing software for MX remotes on their web site. This sounds like good news to me.

It's posted on this forum as well, right here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=853559).

Ah, I saw that the other day and downloaded the new software. But it comes with this caveat: "As stated, the software still does not support the 'Live Update' feature." And the copy I downloaded did not have the latest Oppo codes, as far as I could tell. So it didn't move me forward as much as I had hoped.

(Anyway, I've already got the discrete on/off codes for my Oppo entered into my MX-700, thanks to your help on another thread here, Mike. So I'm satisified for now, until I change out some other component of my system.)

Mike,
I stand corrected.

Shah- Most of the info on my site is pulled from here, Remote Central, tech blogs and press releases from the manufacturers themselves. I sprinkle in some fresh content as well like the reviews and "rumors." My goal is the same as any good magazine... put all the good info in one place and hope someone reads it. I'm happy to hear that it helped you!